[HN Gopher] Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands
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Wild lynx could be reintroduced into Scottish Highlands
Author : edward
Score : 58 points
Date : 2021-01-21 09:08 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| vidarh wrote:
| It's worth noting, with respect to the advice from Norwegian
| farmers, that Norwegian farmers have an incentive to push for
| high estimates of predation over other causes of loss, as they
| get compensation for loss due to predators.
|
| That's not to say they don't lose animals to predators, but the
| estimates of the actual numbers have been fought over in Norway
| for decades.
| siltpotato wrote:
| Saw "Wild lynx could be reintroduced" and I wondered what
| environment used to have a browser but then didn't.
| jfk13 wrote:
| Lynx don't browse, they hunt.
| ggm wrote:
| Huge opposition likely from farmers. Cool, but uphill struggle
| I'd say. Within a boundary? Sure.
| almog wrote:
| The same debate is going over in the Pyrenees regarding
| reintroduction of bears. Farmers fear for their sheep (seem to
| be especially the case on the French side from what I've
| gathered) but guard dogs seem to reduce their losses
| tremendously.
|
| My main source of information is Steve Cracknell who's a writes
| about rewilding of the Pyrenees as well as hiking. I
| encountered his blog and twitter as part of my preparation for
| my thruehike of the Haute Raute Pyrenees. This is his twitter:
| https://twitter.com/enmarchant
| rav wrote:
| Maybe he could just stick to releasing them on his own land?
|
| > In 2018/2019 it was reported that Povlsen owns 221,000 acres
| (890 km2; 345 sq mi) of land in Scotland, making him the
| largest landowner there.
| sambeau wrote:
| No doubt they will then use it as an excuse to fence the land
| off and prevent free roaming across it.
| GordonS wrote:
| Scotland has had 'freedom to roam' laws for something like
| 15 years. Aside from a few "common sense" exclusions like
| quarries and airfields, the only real restriction is that
| roamers act responsibly.
|
| Any other exclusions would need to be passed into law,
| which is _highly_ unlikely to ever happen.
|
| In practice these rights work well for everyone.
| sambeau wrote:
| In the debate about reintroducing wolves to Scotland the
| landowner wanted to fence the land and add it to one of
| the few "common sense" exclusions.
|
| https://www.nathab.com/blog/bringing-wolves-back-to-
| scotland...
| pinipedman wrote:
| They should re-introduce moose, wolves, and brown bears as well.
| But lynx would make a great start.
| mrec wrote:
| They're already working on bison:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25846480
|
| ETA: and we apparently have some moose and wild boar now, on a
| small scale:
| https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/apr/15/wildlife...
| thesis wrote:
| Humans have such a small grasp on this world... it seems most
| only think in terms of "now" -- Next thing you know people will
| be trying to reintroduce Wooly Mammoths somehow.
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| Lynx are extremely photogenic, but I can't help wondering - why?
| They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and
| Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them. The fact that
| they were common half a millennium ago when the ecosystem was
| very different doesn't seem particularly relevant.
|
| So if this is just for tourism and/or as a vanity project and
| there are no solid ecological or scientific reasons, I'm not
| seeing a convincing justification for this.
| theptip wrote:
| > and Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them.
|
| If you've visited Scotland's countryside, you might have
| noticed the sweeping vistas of grassy green fields, yellow
| bushy marshes, and purple heather -- and a conspicuous absence
| of any trees. It's a very unnatural landscape, historically
| speaking.
|
| Scotland (along with the rest of the UK) cut down most of their
| old growth forests in the industrial revolution, and also
| eliminated all of the large predators. As a result, the wild
| deer population is out of control, and even with management
| (read: stalking wild deer) there are so many deer that it's
| impossible to simply plant trees and have them reforest; deer
| will eat and destroy the saplings before they can mature.
|
| This arrests the natural reforestation that would occur over
| time, and makes even managed projects expensive -- for example
| here's a charity that is working on reforesting a plot of land
| in Scotland: https://bordersforesttrust.org/places/wild-
| heart/carrifran-w.... They had to hire someone to kill deer on
| their land to protect the new trees, even after expensive
| plastic casings.
|
| That's a long-winded bit of context, but the summarized
| argument for re-introducing large predators is that they would
| help to control the damaging and out-of-balance wild deer
| population, reducing the amount of human intervention required,
| and allowing the countryside to revert back to its natural
| forested state.
| jfk13 wrote:
| Apparently the covid pandemic has exacerbated this issue,
| because a lot of wild venison goes to the restaurant trade,
| and that market pretty much disappeared. Result: more deer
| overpopulation and damage to ecosystems.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| Deer, and rabbits. Lynx are designed to eat rabbits.
| DonaldFisk wrote:
| "Something most be done. This is something. Therefore, this
| must be done." is a well-known logical fallacy.
|
| Introducing non-native species can have unexpected
| consequences. Though lynxes do prey on deer, they also prey
| on birds and smaller mammals, which would put them in
| competition with Scottish wildcats, which are endangered. We
| can't be sure that introducing lynxes won't drive Scottish
| wildcats to extinction.
|
| There are other solutions. Deer can be shot and the venison
| sold in supermarkets and other outlets (restaurants, once
| COVID-19 is under control). This already happens, albeit on a
| small scale. Venison could also be exported but there's now a
| lot of extra paperwork which needs to be done now that we've
| left the EU.
| rozab wrote:
| The Caledonian Forest disappeared long before the Industrial
| Revolution:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Forest
|
| >An examination of the earliest maps of Scotland suggests
| that the extent of the Caledonian Forest remnants has changed
| little since 1600.
| HarryHirsch wrote:
| No surprise there, the bear became extinct in the British
| Isles by the 10th century.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| Be that as it may, the ancient world definitely went
| through a lot of trees, when they were the principle source
| of energy.
|
| _To put that in some perspective, a Roman legion (roughly
| 5,000 men) in the Late Republic might have carried into
| battle around 44,000kg (c. 48.5 tons) of iron - not
| counting pots, fittings, picks, shovels and other tools we
| know they used. That iron equipment in turn might represent
| the mining of around 541,200kg (c. 600 tons) of ore,
| smelted with 642,400kg (c. 710 tons) of charcoal, made from
| 4,620,000kg (c. 5,100 tons) of wood. Cutting the wood and
| making the charcoal alone, from our figures above, might
| represent something like (I am assuming our charcoal-
| burners are working in teams) 80,000 man-days of labor. For
| one legion._ https://acoup.blog/2020/09/25/collections-
| iron-how-did-they-...
| mNovak wrote:
| Deer seem to be a problem everywhere. In the US midwest
| they're all over the place.
| jessaustin wrote:
| Crossbows are easy to use and don't alarm neighbors.
| Venison is delicious and nutritious. Butchering a deer is a
| fun and educational project for the whole family, and
| requires very little equipment: knives and a big table,
| plus a tree limb and some rope for the initial skinning.
| This is yet another problem that people could solve for
| themselves, if enough of them cared to do so.
| zabzonk wrote:
| At least in the US midwest there's lots of space for them.
| Several times in London UK I've been in a car that nearly
| hit one. See
| https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/20/stags-
| in...
| mabbo wrote:
| > they are aggressive predators,
|
| Got a source on that? Having grown up in a rural area where
| lynx are native... I've seen one, one time, in my entire life
| (in the wild).
|
| They are invisible. They stay away from people. "Aggressive" is
| the wrong word.
| Pet_Ant wrote:
| Maybe it's a vital step to restoring the ecosystem back to
| closer to what it was half a millennium ago?
| [deleted]
| hashtagjohnt wrote:
| But what is the value in restoring that ecosystem? I am not
| saying that is a bad thing (it is probably a good thing), I
| am just curious what the argument for restoration is here.
| smnrchrds wrote:
| There has been many articles written about the success of
| reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone National Park. I am
| curious to know what the rationale for lynx in Scotland is,
| but I imagine the expected outcomes are in line with those
| observed in Yellowstone.
|
| > _Wolves are causing a trophic cascade of ecological
| change, including helping to increase beaver populations
| and bring back aspen, and vegetation._
|
| https://www.yellowstonepark.com/things-to-do/wolf-
| reintroduc...
| justin66 wrote:
| > They're not endangered, they are aggressive predators, and
| Scotland's ecology isn't obviously in need of them.
|
| Are you certain on that last point?
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/feb/20/deer-cull-dilem...
|
| I don't know that much about the lynx but it seems like it
| might be a useful ideal predator to release to help deal with
| deer overpopulation. They don't prey on people.
| almog wrote:
| On that note, what does _aggressive_ even mean as an
| adjective to a predator?
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