[HN Gopher] How to Build an Escrow Product
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       How to Build an Escrow Product
        
       Author : qin
       Score  : 104 points
       Date   : 2021-01-21 15:15 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.moderntreasury.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.moderntreasury.com)
        
       | Icedcool wrote:
       | These are being built directly into ethereum and cardamom now.
        
       | aantix wrote:
       | Are there any licenses needed to be an escrow?
        
       | koraleurke17 wrote:
       | It will be interesting to see when Cardano implements Marlowe for
       | non-coders to implement contracts such as Escrow and Bonds
       | without a trusted third-party.
       | 
       | https://alpha.marlowe.iohkdev.io/#/
        
       | jawns wrote:
       | I would love to see escrow expand from the realm of high-value
       | purchases to more modest transactions, because it's a pretty good
       | way to promote good conduct online. (Full disclosure: About 12
       | years ago I built a startup that would do this, but it never took
       | off.)
       | 
       | Imagine signing up for a social-media account that requires a
       | small amount of money -- say $1 to $10 -- be put down as a type
       | of security deposit. If, during your first X days of activity on
       | the site, you flagrantly violate the terms of use (e.g. by
       | spamming lots of other users) you lose the money; otherwise it's
       | returned to you.
       | 
       | If such a system were to become commonplace, it would introduce
       | only a minor amount of friction for most legitimate users, but it
       | would become a great impediment to spammers and other malicious
       | users.
        
         | ihaveajob wrote:
         | The use case I had in mind when I thought about escrow services
         | not long ago is website trading. I assume the big players have
         | something in place for the domain name part, but there's much
         | more to it when you're transferring an entire service
         | (accounts, documentation, etc). If you're going to pay $5k for
         | a website, spending a $100 fee to make sure everything goes
         | smoothly is probably reasonable.
        
         | jasonpeacock wrote:
         | You are making multiple assumptions about "legitimate users",
         | which biases against various groups:
         | 
         | 1. They have (or are willing to use) an online payment source
         | (credit card, paypal, etc.).
         | 
         | 2. They have (or are willing to spend) a disposable income.
         | 
         | 3. They trust you to get their money back.
         | 
         | Also, you're going to deal with a huge amount of customer
         | service as every single person argues with you that they didn't
         | violate the terms and deserve their money back - that's going
         | to cost way more than any fees/interest you'd earning from the
         | escrow.
        
         | theptip wrote:
         | I don't think this would work for a normal social network (e.g.
         | Facebook); as sibling commenters mention it adds a lot of
         | friction.
         | 
         | However I think this is a great idea to explore for "exclusive"
         | / "high value" forums, say for trade / special-interest groups.
         | I'd be happy to put down a $10 stake to participate in
         | something like Hacker News, for example, if that would help to
         | combat astroturfing and bad behavior. (Honestly for how much I
         | post on HN I'd be prepared to stake more.)
         | 
         | There's been a lot of research done in this area by the
         | Ethereum devs under their migration from "Proof of Work" to
         | "Proof of Stake", including research on the game-theory of
         | "slashing conditions" (i.e. when you lose your stake). You get
         | some cool community-policing possibilities by allowing any
         | member of the community to collect a bounty paid for by
         | claiming part of the forfeited stake, if they can present an
         | example of a member breaching the rules. For something
         | requiring review this would perhaps have less benefits, but
         | could still be useful; rather than moderators having to watch
         | every message go by, they would just look at the "flagged"
         | queue, and users would now have a financial incentive to add
         | something onto the flag queue, perhaps also having to pay a
         | small amount to take that action as well, to disincentivise
         | spamming "flag" entries. I'm sure you could build this all on
         | Ethereum if you were so inclined, with "admin moderation" being
         | a call to an external trusted Oracle service where the
         | moderators live.
         | 
         | Of course there are also substantial risks in turning a system
         | based on community goodwill into a financial game; people
         | behave differently when they are purely optimizing for a
         | financial game vs. when they are not.
        
         | rahimnathwani wrote:
         | I'm not sure I understand the example you gave:
         | 
         | 1. What purpose would escrow serve in this example? The user
         | trusts the social media site, and the amount is small (like
         | $1). So there's no need for a third party to hold/control the
         | funds and determine when they are released to one party or
         | another.
         | 
         | 2. A spammer can just wait until day X+1 to start spamming.
        
           | roywiggins wrote:
           | Metafilter has a $5 signup fee, which works in approximately
           | the same way. If you get kicked off for spam (or any reason,
           | really) you're out the $5.
        
         | mbesto wrote:
         | Why haven't crypto smart contracts satisfied this yet? They've
         | been talking about it for years, but I have yet to see
         | substance for it...
        
           | _z1234 wrote:
           | Algorand has...
           | 
           | https://community.algorand.org/blog/utilizing-algorands-
           | asc-...
        
         | zacharycohn wrote:
         | See: something awful forums circa 200....4?
        
         | clairity wrote:
         | a potential reason your startup didn't take off:
         | 
         | "If such a system were to become commonplace, it would
         | introduce only a minor amount of friction for most legitimate
         | users..."
         | 
         | first, that doesn't sound like minor friction, but more
         | importantly, even seemingly small friction can lead to large
         | abandonment, especially if frictionless alternatives are
         | readily available.
         | 
         | banks _love_ (large) escrow products by the way. super-low
         | risk, low effort, and very reliable fee income for them.
        
         | xcambar wrote:
         | From the top of my head, I can mention 2 (local, EU) examples:
         | * https://ebay-kleinanzeigen.de * https://leboncoin.fr
         | 
         | Interestingly, both are platforms for individuals to sell goods
         | to other individuals. And both internalized the feature (no
         | apparent 3rd party involved).
        
         | kodah wrote:
         | The Keybase Wallet that is basically a proxy for Stellar Lumens
         | does this for "trustlines" in order to exchange between
         | currencies and various coins. The only difference is that it's
         | durable for the duration of your use of the trustline.
        
         | chin7an wrote:
         | Metafilter.com has a $5 one time sign up fee and a waiting
         | period for similar reasons. That discouraged posting useless
         | questions that plagued Yahoo Answers. Used to be a good, useful
         | website a few years back but rarely comes up in results these
         | days, maybe because Quora is free and drives more traffic or
         | better SEO!
        
         | brightball wrote:
         | I've often wondered about something like this for eBay to make
         | transactions more trustworthy.
        
         | elietoubi wrote:
         | Hey! My name is Elie and I am the CEO of carbon payment ... I
         | used to lead one of the payment team at Uber and I am working
         | something similar... let's chat
        
         | loceng wrote:
         | I feel the type of user who'd buy into this would also be the
         | type of user who'd simply be willing to contribute a small
         | amount monthly to pay towards moderation, etc.
        
       | hervature wrote:
       | If anyone has resources with regards to any certification
       | requirements for different countries but primarily USA/Canada
       | before becoming an escrow service, that would be highly
       | appreciated.
        
       | thisiswarry wrote:
       | fun fact: escrow comes from the french word "escroc" which means
       | crook. words, am I right ?
       | 
       | well, TBH both comes from the same word, not directly related.
       | still, fun to see how the same words can end up having exact
       | opposite meanings.
        
         | mytailorisrich wrote:
         | "Escroc" in French comes from "Scrocco" in Italian [1]. No
         | relation with escrow.
         | 
         | [1] https://unaparolaalgiorno.it/significato/scroccare
        
         | Kydlaw wrote:
         | Being french and not knowing the definition of "escrow", I
         | associated it with crook indeed ! Also at the first reading of
         | the title I read "escort product". Thought, "ho woah HN! what
         | is going on?" :)
        
         | tylerrobinson wrote:
         | > The word derives from the Old French word escroue, meaning a
         | scrap of paper or a scroll of parchment; this indicated the
         | deed that a third party held until a transaction was completed.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escrow
        
       | _z1234 wrote:
       | It still remains that the transaction has a trusted 3rd party,
       | this is not revolutionary. Algorand can solve this without a
       | trusted 3rd party.
       | 
       | https://community.algorand.org/blog/utilizing-algorands-asc-...
       | 
       | https://developer.algorand.org/docs/build-apps/apps/#escrow-...
       | 
       | Super easy for developers to get started with too:
       | https://developer.algorand.org/
        
         | alexchamberlain wrote:
         | I think the trusted 3rd party is essential to these
         | transactions. At least in the UK, the conveyancers aren't just
         | providing escrow or legal services, but also a professional,
         | guiding voice through the transaction as a whole.
        
       | orliesaurus wrote:
       | Looks like a great use-case for Stripe Treasury API!
        
       | terrynaidu wrote:
       | www.truzo.com
       | 
       | unfortunately banks charges relating to payments govern the cost
       | of an escrow service hence it makes more sense for larger value
       | transactions
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-21 23:01 UTC)