[HN Gopher] Why cats are crazy for catnip
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Why cats are crazy for catnip
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 173 points
       Date   : 2021-01-21 12:25 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sciencemag.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sciencemag.org)
        
       | ivan_ah wrote:
       | Direct link to research paper:
       | 
       | [ The characteristic response of domestic cats to plant iridoids
       | allows them to gain chemical defense against mosquitoes ]
       | https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/4/eabd9135
        
         | ivan_ah wrote:
         | On a lighter note, and for anyone who hasn't seen cats on
         | catnip in practice, check this out:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0OB9p0zqx0
        
       | yokaze wrote:
       | Most cats, that is. 50-70% do not respond to catnip.
        
         | EE84M3i wrote:
         | >Most cats, that is. 50-70% do not respond to catnip.
         | 
         | Wouldn't that be the opposite of "most"?
        
           | cmrdporcupine wrote:
           | I suspect like most things in nature it's a bell curve; of
           | varying responses. My cat responds, but not super
           | enthusiastically. I've had other cats that just ignored. And
           | other cats that went crazy for the stuff.
        
         | malobre wrote:
         | Source ?
         | 
         | According to
         | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5356310/ only
         | around a third of cats does not respond to catnip.
        
           | jbarberu wrote:
           | My anecdata confirms this, one of my three is not a nip-head.
        
       | helen___keller wrote:
       | I've considered growing _actinidia kolomikta_ , a species of kiwi
       | berry vine, which is noted on wikipedia as being highly
       | attractive to cats. The article mentions _Actinidia polygama_ so
       | I wonder if it 's just the entire genus
        
         | throwawaygal7 wrote:
         | I think it is most of the genus, I've seen cats eat the shoots
         | on Actinidia plants (Arugata).
         | 
         | I know silvervine is in a lot of catnip mixed, I think not all
         | cats react to whatever pheromone is in catnip so a lot of mixes
         | have several different euphoria in them to try to increase
         | efficacy.
        
       | alex_duf wrote:
       | So an insect repellent that cats, big or small are going to be
       | attracted to?
       | 
       | I mean, I don't think I'd want to put that insect repellent in
       | the savannah, north america or a place that has lots of feral
       | cats.
        
       | leblancfg wrote:
       | > Our findings suggest instead that rolling is rather a
       | functional behavior.
       | 
       | People smoke weed all the time and it decreases violence. But
       | that's not why they do it.
       | 
       | Chances are just as good that the insect repellant is just a nice
       | side effect of these cats getting high, not the other way around.
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | > _Chances are just as good that the insect repellant is just a
         | nice side effect of these cats getting high, not the other way
         | around._
         | 
         | In evolution, couldn't it be that the trait of enjoying catnip
         | made them more resilient to mosquitos and thus had a higher
         | chance of surviving, or so?
        
           | leblancfg wrote:
           | Sure thing, although I would argue the increased evolutionary
           | fitness would be very small. The fact that they roll in it vs
           | just inhaling it to me also suggests this.
           | 
           | Maybe their use of the word "functional" is different than
           | mine, and we're saying the same thing. But to me there's a
           | big difference from saying e.g. "Our findings suggest that
           | chimps using sticks to dislodge food is a functional
           | behavior."
        
         | 3395810 wrote:
         | They get high from ingesting it. Not from rolling around in it.
        
           | leblancfg wrote:
           | Maybe go watch a cat and report back =)
        
           | Kagerjay wrote:
           | Cats become sedated when ingesting catnip, rolling or
           | around/smelling it causes them to get "high"
        
         | de_nied wrote:
         | > People smoke weed all the time
         | 
         | > and it decreases violence
         | 
         | https://i.imgur.com/61JXtJ7.png
        
           | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
           | I mean, have you ever heard of someone high on THC acting
           | belligerent? I sure haven't. Alcohol, meth, cocaine, bath
           | salts, everything else, absolutely. Ask a cop how often he
           | gets called for a DV issue because someone is drunk.
           | 
           | But weed? Nah. People on weed just want to eat pretzels and
           | watch cartoons.
        
           | INTPenis wrote:
           | How dare you.
           | 
           | Jamie, pull that up.
        
             | de_nied wrote:
             | -3 karma. Jamie, I said citations, not downvotes.
        
       | rpiguyshy wrote:
       | i recently moved into a house with some other people. they have
       | cats which they have owned for many years. after living here for
       | a while, i was sitting on the couch watching star trek with these
       | people when one of the cats came up and sat on my lap. they were
       | shocked. that cat didnt sit on any of their laps, ever. and they
       | became a little jealous. this happens literally every time i take
       | up residence with people who own cats. their cats become very
       | attached to me and the owners become jealous. one time, very very
       | jealous.
       | 
       | most people are very blunt. they do not see past the surface of
       | anything. they are impressed with superficial charm and not much
       | else. they arent able to see inside a person, to figure out how
       | their mind works or what it would be like to wear their shoes.
       | they dont build models to explain the world and they arent
       | interested in knowing how anything works. they dont listen when
       | people speak. most people are stupid. and most of the time, this
       | kind of talk is cast aside as being too vague and qualitative.
       | but i have quantified it with cats.
       | 
       | when you consider a cat, the first impulse is to
       | anthropomorphize. and since the cat cant speak, your assumptions
       | about what it wants are guided by your anthropomorphism. most
       | people only get this far and so most peoples relationship with
       | their cats are really relationships with themselves. but some
       | people pay close attention to what the cat is doing and how it
       | responds to things, and carefully pack away that data instead of
       | just writing it off as noise or "thats just what cats do."
       | eventually you are able to demonstrate to the cat, through your
       | actions, that you understand what it is feeling and what it
       | wants. when a cat realizes that you are paying attention, that
       | you are listening, it is a very different experience for the cat.
       | the cat understands whats going on and will act in a way that is
       | designed to communicate. and they will also trust and love you
       | much, much more than anyone else because they know you are
       | listening. thats the key, they are smart enough to know. most
       | people assume they are dumb, and attribute their aloofness to it.
       | 
       | people get super jealous because they think they are showering
       | their cats with love. and they try to fix it by loving them more,
       | but it just makes it worse.
       | 
       | if a person has cats and has not unlocked this line of
       | communication, in my experience they also havent deeply
       | understood other humans or anything else. and i almost never meet
       | people who have.
        
         | mopierotti wrote:
         | I have fostered roughly 25 cats (one at a time), and what you
         | wrote about communication resonates with me. Most cats seem to
         | develop a sort of pidgin[1] language in collaboration with you
         | to communicate how they feel or what they want. It's different
         | for each cat, but is usually some combination of vocalization
         | tones, body postures/movements, eye contact, or even the
         | location in the house they choose to do those things from.
         | 
         | They can be surprisingly great communicators.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin
        
         | yks wrote:
         | while you are onto something, it also reads like "all my nieces
         | love me and hate their parents because I am around to play with
         | them and give them gifts but not around to force them eat the
         | food they dislike"
        
         | q845712 wrote:
         | I went through the process of befriending a very timid/shy cat
         | owned by a housemate and would largely agree. I'd say it
         | differently, maybe "seek first to understand and then to be
         | understood"?
         | 
         | But in learning how to befriend this "difficult" cat I really
         | had to set aside all of my own agendas and ideas, and I learned
         | something very generalizable about how to learn.
        
       | Nursie wrote:
       | A timely article. I just put some silvervine powder in a paper
       | bag and watched our kitties go mental, sticking their heads in,
       | rolling around. Great fun.
        
         | S_A_P wrote:
         | Catnip is the only socially acceptable drug that I've seen that
         | you can administer to animals. Imagine the outrage if you
         | substitute catnip with cannabis or alcohol and post it to
         | YouTube. Granted in the case of alcohol you most certainly
         | could kill the animal.
        
       | jbotz wrote:
       | How were they able to patent this? I've known for 20 years that
       | catnip works as a mosquito repellent; there was a 2001 paper that
       | showed that its essential oil, nepetalactone, was 10 times more
       | effective than DEET[1]. Soon after this a variety of "natural
       | mosquito repellent" products based on catnip appeared on the
       | market. I've made homemade repellent myself by soaking catnip in
       | alcohol and it works great, although it wears off faster than
       | commercial DEET-based repellent; have to keep reapplying.
       | 
       | Anyway, another patent that shouldn't have been issued.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/08/010828075659.h...
        
         | CuriouslyC wrote:
         | The problem there is the alcohol. Perform an extraction with a
         | less volatile solvent. Even cutting the alcohol with glycerin
         | would probably work.
        
         | ballenf wrote:
         | Were you ever mobbed by cats while using? I could see that
         | effect really freaking someone out who wasn't ready for it.
         | Like a scene from Hitchcock's _The Birds_ but cats.
        
           | EGreg wrote:
           | So you trade mosquitoes for cats...
           | 
           | Sounds like what Israel did but with rats for cats... in a
           | different way hehe
           | 
           | https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/concerning-cat-population-
           | in...
        
         | buescher wrote:
         | Here's the patent. The claims are a little more specific than I
         | think you're imagining - that's typical for making something
         | like this patentable.
         | 
         | https://patents.google.com/patent/US7524888B2
        
       | leadingthenet wrote:
       | Maybe this is a weird question, but why do people give drugs to
       | their cats?
       | 
       | Is it to see them have fun? Is it so the owners have fun? Is it
       | good for them?
       | 
       | I never quite understood why catnip was so socially acceptable
       | when we view other drugs with such different eyes.
        
         | aaron_m04 wrote:
         | > Is it to see them have fun? Is it so the owners have fun?
         | 
         | Yes
        
           | waheoo wrote:
           | How dare you?! Won't someone think of the kitty cats?
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Not all humans view drugs in the same manner. In some locales,
         | it is accepted to use drugs recreationally. Other places deem
         | that same usage unacceptable. If you look at the similarity in
         | the gov'ts that deem that usage as unacceptable, there's a
         | common overall belief that is not scientifically based.
        
           | dalbasal wrote:
           | Some sort of drug is usually acceptable culturally. Alcohol,
           | very widely. Cannabis, more recently. Mild drugs like coffee.
           | "Prescribed recreationals" like xanax in some circles. In
           | many places Hashish or opium are still seen as
           | traditional/acceptable.
           | 
           | I grew up in Israel, where qat is legal, seen as equivalent
           | to coffee and culturally acceptable. It's fairly common as an
           | ornamental plant.
           | 
           | Giving your cat whiskey would cause an uproar, but I guess
           | catnip gets a grandfather exception.
        
             | pushrax wrote:
             | As far as anyone knows, catnip is completely nontoxic to
             | cats, but ethanol certainly is toxic. Cats also simply
             | don't like the smell of alcohol.
             | 
             | Eating very large quantities of catnip can give them
             | gastrointestinal discomfort though.
        
               | dalbasal wrote:
               | Sure, I wasn't recommending it. I'm just pointing out
               | that it's culturally acceptable to give cats catnip.
               | Culture happens, and sometimes it's rational. Sometimes
               | it's not.
        
         | TulliusCicero wrote:
         | The impact of recreational drugs is often seen as destructive,
         | in terms of basic physical health, or behavior (e.g.
         | addiction).
         | 
         | If catnip isn't destroying cats' lives, what's the harm?
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | I think most people realize the futility of trying to apply
         | human morality to non-human animals.
        
         | elliekelly wrote:
         | Along the same lines, does it gives cats a "hangover" of sorts
         | afterwards? The article describes catnip as similar to heroin
         | for humans. I've never done heroin but I would imagine the
         | withdrawal is really unpleasant which is what then causes
         | addiction. Do cats experience the same come down? Can cats get
         | addicted to catnip if they have access to an unlimited supply?
        
           | echoradio wrote:
           | The behavior I notice with my cats when they have some 'nip
           | is they get a little active then have a time where they just
           | mellow out. But cats also sleep about 16 hours a day, so it
           | is hard to determine at what point being mellow shifts into
           | their typical nap time.
           | 
           | I don't think there's a long-term tolerance that builds up. I
           | get the sense it is short-acting. I've read once a cat has
           | catnip, giving them more in a 15-20 minute window is
           | pointless because they've already been "activated" by it.
           | They need to come down from the initial dose first.
           | 
           | My cats' vet has suggested to use catnip to encourage
           | activity (they're a big chunky and need some exercise).
        
           | dokem wrote:
           | I bought a ton of catnip and my cat seemed to become
           | indifferent to it pretty quickly. Maybe it just dried out,
           | though.
        
         | rconti wrote:
         | If you keep drugging your cats, they'll never be able to hold
         | down a job.
        
         | INTPenis wrote:
         | You raise a really good point actually.
         | 
         | I've met christian, conservative, Swedish country-side folk who
         | frown on anything the government considers illegal or drugs.
         | 
         | But at the same time will use catnip on a new cat toy as a tool
         | to make the cat take to it. Or just watch it roll around for
         | their own amusement.
         | 
         | Maybe that's a fringe example but I have had that experience a
         | couple times.
         | 
         | More often I have contact with younger people in their 20s and
         | 30s who don't view human drugs as anything morally wrong and
         | just enjoy giving their cat what they assume is enjoyment.
        
         | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
         | Yes, it is to see them have fun. The cats definitely appear to
         | enjoy it. My cat has learned to recognize the sound of me
         | opening the tub of catnip and will come running across the
         | house to get some.
         | 
         | Good for them? Maybe. It's certainly not _bad_ for them. This
         | has been very much studied. Cats can 't overdose on catnip. At
         | worst, after 5-15 minutes of sniffing and rolling around in it,
         | they stop responding to it.
         | 
         | > when we view other drugs with such different eyes.
         | 
         | Because most drugs humans take are harmful. The hard stuff like
         | meth, cocaine, heroin, etc., is easy to overdose on. Alcohol
         | can make some people belligerent and can easily be deadly.
         | Tobacco causes cancer, among other things depending on how you
         | consume it. Marijuana is the least harmful, but as far as I'm
         | concerned, the jury is still out on whether or not it's as
         | harmless as people think it is, especially if smoked.
         | 
         | But catnip? It's completely harmless. The cat will sniff or eat
         | it, roll around in it, and appears to experience euphoria, but
         | there are no health dangers in it.
        
         | echoradio wrote:
         | Your post reminded me of this humorous drug education film
         | parody:
         | 
         | https://vimeo.com/44733000
        
           | shaftway wrote:
           | I clicked on that fully expecting it to be the demonstration
           | of various drugs on spiders:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2HipedgM3I
        
         | derefr wrote:
         | In general: if an animal is observed to purposefully do
         | something in the wild, _and_ that thing isn't known to be
         | harmful to the animal, then most people will consider that
         | thing to be a valid "enrichment" activity -- i.e. something
         | that would be good to offer as an activity for animals of that
         | species, in captivity, to engage in when they seem bored
         | /understimulated.
         | 
         | I don't know about cats with catnip specifically, but many wild
         | animals are observed to purposefully seek out and consume
         | rotten (i.e. fermented, alcoholic) fruit to get drunk/high. (We
         | _know_ that alcohol is harmful to animals, so we don't _tend_
         | to offer e.g. captive apes rotten fruit; but we also don't
         | really stop them from hoarding fruit to make it _become_
         | rotten, and then eating it. It's a natural thing that they do.
         | Cats gonna scratch each-other up play-fighting. Apes gonna
         | drink.)
         | 
         | But why do we have such a different mindset toward this?
         | 
         | I think one big difference is that the human social norms on
         | the acceptable recreational activities _for humans_ are mostly
         | defined /circumscribed by what _doctors_ think is okay (i.e. we
         | take the lead of the medical establishment -- if doctors are
         | chill about something, there isn't usually a social norm
         | against it, while if doctors get upset, other people also get
         | upset.) And doctors don't like recreational drugs very much,
         | because they usually think in a "harm reduction" mindset rather
         | than a QALY mindset: they'd rather decrease "risk of a loss of
         | capability to experience a satisfying life", than increase "the
         | area-under-the-curve of satisfying-life-years."
         | 
         | Meanwhile, the human social norms on the acceptable
         | recreational activities _for animals_ are mostly defined
         | /circumscribed by what _zoologists_ think is okay. Zoologists
         | are the people with voices and platforms to talk about animals,
         | since engaging in animal conservation and study tends to
         | directly correlate with seeking funding for that conservation
         | and study, which is usually implemented through educational
         | outreach activities (i.e. building zoos /aquariums/nature
         | parks, giving tours in conservation areas, etc.) And
         | zoologists, traditionally(?), mostly care about what they
         | _observe_ happening in nature. The whole field of zoology is
         | built on observing animals in nature to figure out "what they
         | do." So our norms on animal recreation lean much more toward
         | "natural = good" (regardless of harm potential) than
         | "potentially harmful = bad" (regardless of naturalness.)
         | 
         | If _veterinarians_ had the voices and platforms instead, I
         | assume you'd see much more of a harm-reduction mindset in our
         | social norms toward animal recreation.
        
         | jerf wrote:
         | "I never quite understood why catnip was so socially acceptable
         | when we view other drugs with such different eyes."
         | 
         | Do you treat "drugs are bad" as an axiomatic statement, or do
         | you accept "drugs are bad" as the contingent conclusion of a
         | series of more fundamental statements?
         | 
         | We drill the former into (young) children because it is true
         | enough for them, and they aren't ready for the latter.
         | 
         | If you can understand the latter, then take the underlying
         | statements, and apply them to the cats. You'll find most of
         | them simply don't apply to cats. Maybe a couple of them
         | slightly do, but none of them work like humans. Humans have a
         | unique capacity to be affected by drugs due to our superb
         | executive functioning. Non-humans are all but incapable of
         | bending their entire life around drug-seeking behavior the way
         | we are partially because we're really good at making them, and
         | also because we're uniquely good at _refining_ them. (It 's a
         | long cognitive distance from "let the fruit sit a while to
         | taste fun" to "let's build a still!".)
        
         | chmaynard wrote:
         | A thought-provoking question, thanks for asking.
        
         | lreeves wrote:
         | For the same reason I smoke weed. They clearly love it and it
         | has no adverse effects (just don't let them eat it, use it in
         | toys).
        
           | the-dude wrote:
           | > has no adverse effects
           | 
           | I used to think that too. And I still smoke ( hash, which is
           | different ).
           | 
           | However, it does make me complacent, which sometimes make me
           | endure situations I would otherwise change.
        
             | lreeves wrote:
             | Oh I meant catnip, haha. I think pot definitely has some
             | mild side-effects for sure.
        
             | _underfl0w_ wrote:
             | Complacency is a huge downside. I'm also much less
             | motivated to work on side projects.
             | 
             | Not to mention the toll on the lungs. Ask Willie Nelson if
             | you'd like anecdata about how that can play out over a
             | lifetime.
             | 
             | I've recently made the leap to edibles exclusively after a
             | stint with a hot-air vaporizer (a la Volcano devices) and I
             | now find the resin smell of smoking incredibly off-putting.
             | The coughing, hacking, and lung stiffness that results from
             | a bong rip even more so.
             | 
             | Doesn't lessen the complacency, but the delay your
             | metabolism introduces can help you get started on projects
             | before it sets in!
        
         | idlewords wrote:
         | I started off giving my catnip once every few weeks or so. Soon
         | it was multiple times a day. Now the cat just lies around on
         | the sofa all day, waiting for the next fix. I dare not stop
         | because I fear its claws. The active, happy animal I knew is
         | gone, replaced by this sleepy, torpid monster--just another
         | victim of catnip addiction.
        
       | zvrba wrote:
       | My cats get high after eating tiny bits of green olives. They
       | roll, are crazy for more, will literally lick my clothes if I
       | spilled a drop of the pickle, and one of the gets a bit playfully
       | aggressive. Just the smell of olives attracts them like crazy.
       | Have also tried catnip, but no observable effect.
       | 
       | I don't overdo it, I don't have olives very often in the fridge,
       | and even then they maybe get a tiny piece once a week.
        
         | dokem wrote:
         | My cat acts the same towards my sweaty post-workout socks. He
         | can't seem to get enough of 'em. And he doesn't seem to care
         | for cat nip nearly as much.
        
         | SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
         | Cats are known to like fatty and salty foods, and not have a
         | "sweet tooth". Olives are oily, and preserved in salt
        
         | hrnnnnnn wrote:
         | Our cat loves olives too, it's the only vegetable he'll eat.
         | Always wondered if it was a unique quirk but I guess not!
        
         | gverrilla wrote:
         | I'm curious: what was the situtation when they first ate
         | olives?
        
       | blindm wrote:
       | Is the high similar to heroin/morphine etc in humans? Because if
       | it is, then is catnip not addictive to a cat? What if a cat
       | discovers whole fields of the stuff and decided to revel in it
       | until death? It's unlikely but it could happen
        
         | failrate wrote:
         | Anecdotr: one of our cats, upon presented with unlimited
         | amounts of catnip, consumed it until it became basically
         | K-holed and then refused to touch the stuff for a few years
         | afterwards, suggesting the equivalent of a hangover.
        
           | minitoar wrote:
           | Lol we've all been there, if only eating too many sweets.
        
         | Nursie wrote:
         | Stops having an effect pretty quickly. They'd wander off, then
         | maybe come back later. I've observed mine do that with catnip
         | and silvervine.
        
         | soulofmischief wrote:
         | A cat is not going to OD on catnip.
         | 
         | Also, from the article: "Big or small, the felines surrendered
         | to the substance, rubbing their heads and bodies in the patches
         | for an average of 10 minutes"
        
           | leadingthenet wrote:
           | Sooo, more like DMT for cats?
        
         | wasdfff wrote:
         | My parents grow large bushes of catnip. The cat walks up to the
         | bush, chews it some, and passes out in the bush. Seems to enjoy
         | himself.
        
         | FrozenVoid wrote:
         | What if a human discovers whole aisles of cheese and decided to
         | relish in it until casomorphin overdose?
        
           | lordnacho wrote:
           | Selection. People who are in their cheesy death throes don't
           | have a free hand to write on HN.
        
           | taneq wrote:
           | I've made my choice, leave me be.
        
           | leadingthenet wrote:
           | Aren't personal attacks like this a ban-able offence on HN?
           | 
           | Edit: twas a joke, guys...
        
           | aasasd wrote:
           | Why must you tantalize me so.
        
       | Schiphol wrote:
       | > Most scientists and pet owners assumed the only reason that
       | cats roll around in catnip was for the euphoric experience,
       | Miyazaki says. "Our findings suggest instead that rolling is
       | rather a functional behavior."
       | 
       | There is no incompatibility between proximal and distal, what
       | they call functional, explanations of behavior. Once you have a
       | brain with a reward system, a good way to encourage (discourage)
       | a behavior that is (dis)functional is to make it
       | (dis)pleasurable.
       | 
       | A similar distinction in explanations of human behavior is what
       | anthropologists call
       | [emic/etic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emic_and_etic). The
       | emic viewpoint is that of the subject themselves; the etic
       | viewpoint is that of the anthropologist (the ethologist in this
       | case). A classical, and beautiful example is Malinowski's
       | description of the [Kula
       | ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kula_ring) in Papua New
       | Guinea. Participants in the ring see themselves as exchanging
       | presents; Malinowski showed that there is a further political and
       | economic significance to the ring. The two perspectives are
       | perfectly compatible.
        
         | armada651 wrote:
         | I think you're misreading that paragraph. It is specifically
         | saying the euphoria is not the _only_ reason that cats roll
         | around in catnip.
        
           | Schiphol wrote:
           | The "rather" connotes mutually exclusive alternatives,
           | doesn't it? (I'm not a native speaker.)
        
             | armada651 wrote:
             | I think it translates best to "echter" in this context.
             | Which doesn't necessarily exclude other possibilities.
             | 
             | However the sentence can simply be read in two ways. Both
             | interpretations are equally valid.
        
             | andyjohnson0 wrote:
             | Native English speaker here.
             | 
             | I read it as qualifying the degree of functionality in the
             | rolling behaviour. That is: the rolling behaviour is
             | functional to a significant extent, but is not entirely
             | functional.
        
             | selimthegrim wrote:
             | "I had rather a good time."
        
             | svachalek wrote:
             | Interesting, as a native speaker I am only familiar with it
             | meaning mutual exclusion, with a range of connotations from
             | "the former is the opposite of correct" to "let me adjust
             | that thought slightly". However, Merriam-Webster supports
             | my experience with the first 4 definitions and then drops a
             | "but also" as the fifth. Sometimes I hate English.
             | 
             | https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rather
        
         | dalbasal wrote:
         | Etic/emic is an insightful metaphor, mr airport. These things
         | are complicated.
         | 
         | Even in your type example, I doubt that papuan chiefs were
         | oblivious of the political elements gift giving. OTOH, a purely
         | etic viewpoint is (anthropologically) incomplete too. The
         | political/economic machinery that outsiders/scholars find
         | doesn't work, or make any sense, without the emic/cultural
         | perspective. The same could be said of most political
         | processes. The US just changed presidents. Leading up to it was
         | weeks/months of ritual. Processes and procedures in many state
         | chambers, and such. Most of it doesn't have a practical role,
         | yet its culturally essential.
         | 
         | We're often warned not to personify animals. I think more often
         | we make the mistake of personifying people, so to speak. We
         | always have rationalisations, but the way it works is usually
         | after the fact... or only rational within an
         | irrational/cultural frame.
         | 
         | Leonard cohen said that free will is overrated. It exists but
         | is rarely exercised. More often, we act because we are
         | compelled.
         | 
         | If cats were people, they'd roll in catnip because they're
         | compelled to do so... but then cite this article and mosquitos
         | as the "reason."
        
       | Ensorceled wrote:
       | Why was this:
       | 
       | > The team, which has already patented an insect repellent based
       | on nepetalactol,
       | 
       | At the BOTTOM of this article.
        
         | matthewmacleod wrote:
         | Because it's a pretty reasonable place to put openly declared
         | competing interests in a news article about a paper in one of
         | the publisher's journals?
        
         | aceazzameen wrote:
         | Cats are going to love people who spray that stuff on.
        
           | tgtweak wrote:
           | Cat cologne missed opportunity tbh
        
       | dirtyid wrote:
       | New cat utterly unresponsive to catnip, wonder if defective. Have
       | never encountered a cat that didn't go cray for the nips until
       | now. Last cat was so into it, I worried whether she experienced
       | withdraw symptoms. Literature on that is pretty mixed though.
        
         | dirtyid wrote:
         | Rate limited account, can't reply to everyone. But thanks for
         | all the advice, going to try to peddle some of these other
         | substances on her. She's 3yrs old, olfactory fine, maybe too
         | fine, yaks rudely when I'm on the can.
        
         | Broken_Hippo wrote:
         | New cat? Is it young? This could be the issue. And like others
         | have said, a minority of cats just don't care for it.
         | 
         | Neither of my cats go as absolutely nuts over it like some
         | other cats: That said, they both know which toy has a pile of
         | the stuff in it for them to eat freely and somewhat regularly
         | have some bites.
        
         | rurp wrote:
         | One of my cats didn't care for it at all his first 5 or so
         | years of life, but now loves the stuff. I've also read that
         | something like 30% of cats don't like catnip at all.
        
         | code_duck wrote:
         | Speaking to an Australian friend, I learned that 25% of cats
         | don't respond to catnip at all - or cat mint, as they call it.
         | Apparently the branch of the cat family in Australia are ones
         | that don't have the catnip genes, so she had never witnessed a
         | cat acting crazy in the characteristic cat way.
         | 
         | My previous cats did two different things - one would instantly
         | flop down and roll in the catnip, then lazily lick it off her
         | paws. The other cat would make a beeline for any catnip and
         | intently eat all of it, shoving aside the rolling cat.
        
           | gwern wrote:
           | I've compiled all of the reported catnip studies and run some
           | large-scale surveys of my own: https://www.gwern.net/Catnip
           | https://www.gwern.net/Catnip-survey
           | 
           | Globally, catnip immunity rates are closer to a third, but
           | Australia is at the extreme with about half cats not
           | responding.
           | 
           | Villani 2011
           | https://www.gwern.net/docs/catnip/2011-villani.pdf
           | establishes that catnip response is highly heritable but
           | polygenic ( _not_ Mendelian), and to a first approximation,
           | no one studies cat genetics - so it will be difficult to
           | prove that there 's some sort of founder effect on
           | Australian/Mexican/Spanish cats causing a lower genetic
           | propensity.
        
         | throwawaygal7 wrote:
         | I believe some cats dont react to it based on genetics, there
         | are other things you can try! Maybe silvervine or valerian?
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | Not all cats respond to catnip. Also, some don't care for it as
         | kittens, but when older they enjoy it.
        
         | Nursie wrote:
         | Silvervine, particularly japanese silvervine powder from
         | smack.co.jp, seems to get them all.
         | 
         | Our female kitty doesn't care at all for the 'nip, but goes
         | crazy for that stuff.
        
         | dominotw wrote:
         | I have four 'siberian' breed cats and two in the past. _none_
         | of them have responded to catnip even one bit.
        
         | JoeAltmaier wrote:
         | Can't smell? Can detect food when hidden?
        
       | lemcoe9 wrote:
       | Another opportunity for a shameless plug of my website:
       | https://ipkitten.com
       | 
       | It simply serves you a random kitten GIF (some of which involve
       | catnip) and provides your IP address alongside some other
       | connection information.
       | 
       | EDIT: The ARIN JSON endpoints have rate-limited me, so ISP
       | information is currently unavailable.
        
         | spiffytech wrote:
         | Perfect - looks like this will be my new go-to IP checking
         | tool.
         | 
         | I'll add it into my kitten dev toolbox alongside
         | https://placekitten.com/
        
         | tgtweak wrote:
         | You should cache the cidr ranges and arin responses for a
         | decent amount of time since they seldom change.
        
         | pantalaimon wrote:
         | It only shows IPv4
        
           | cafeoh wrote:
           | only shows IPv6 for me.
        
       | qwerty456127 wrote:
       | They are not. I haven't met a cat crazy for catnip or valeriana
       | since I was a kid. They either ignore them completely or express
       | occasional moderate interest.
        
       | zwieback wrote:
       | I tried growing some catnip but the plants got eaten right down
       | to the roots by someone. I tried again this time with a cage
       | around the plant and it worked great but my cat just gets annoyed
       | when I wave it in her face. Apparently she falls in the sober
       | population
        
       | cosmodisk wrote:
       | Not just catnip,valerian too,which is a 'top recreational drug'
       | for cats, apparently. When we were kids,we used to give small
       | amounts of valerian root to our cat to chew. The cat would
       | literally tear anything apart just to get it. Then,a few minutes
       | later,it gets high, and just keeps rolling over purring with
       | satisfaction.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | Our cats are definitely more into valerian than catnip, they
         | dive face first into the stuff, eat it, roll around in it, etc.
         | With catnip, no reaction.
        
           | eps wrote:
           | Valerian is _the_ cat drug in my home country. Mentioned it
           | once to a friend, a Canadian, and brought him a bit the next
           | time I went back home for a visit. His cat had no reaction.
           | Zero. But the catnip worked as expected.
        
             | gwern wrote:
             | That's a little surprising, since Bol et al 2017 (https://b
             | mcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-...),
             | testing catnip/Valerian/silvervine/honeysuckle on ~100
             | cats, found that the response to each is correlated. (I get
             | a tetrachoric correlation of 0.6 for catnip/valerian in my
             | analysis: https://www.gwern.net/Catnip#optimal-catnip-
             | alternative-sele... )
             | 
             | I think you probably just got unlucky there.
        
               | eps wrote:
               | Possibly, but I do wonder if there's a difference between
               | American and European cats as far as the drug response
               | goes.
        
         | jrimbault wrote:
         | Olive wood too. Many cats will lick a piece of olive wood and
         | seem to get some kind of high from it.
         | 
         | I've seen many cats lounging under (or on top of) olive trees
         | in the Alps around Nice (France).
        
           | RandallBrown wrote:
           | The cat I had growing up was OBSESSED with olives. He would
           | eat one, then roll around in the spot where it was on the
           | floor. It was the same reaction he had to catnip, but more
           | extreme.
           | 
           | My current cat is much less interested in olives, but loves
           | catnip.
        
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