[HN Gopher] The Left-NIMBY Canon
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       The Left-NIMBY Canon
        
       Author : coryfklein
       Score  : 38 points
       Date   : 2021-01-20 21:39 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (noahpinion.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (noahpinion.substack.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | mdoms wrote:
       | In New Zealand no one is more conservative than the progressive
       | left. They demand the preservation of architecture at all costs.
       | They demand the preservation of a single decades-old tree over
       | housing. They demand more deference be given to traditional
       | tribespeople over and above the progression of cities and housing
       | the homeless. No one stands in the way of housing more than the
       | left in this country.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | In the US, at least, I've experienced that the well-meaning
         | progressive left pursues these laws in the legislature, but
         | then they are (ab)used by those who don't actually care about
         | the left causes, they are just looking for any means to
         | obstruct construction that they don't want.
         | 
         | I sometimes joke that the right is "NIMBY" but the left is
         | "NIYBY" (not in your backyard).
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | majormajor wrote:
       | The induced demand aspect is one I've found interesting for a
       | long time.
       | 
       | The linked studies are interesting, but they seem to be looking
       | at just short-term impacts, which I don't think would reveal
       | anything of a potential "high demand -> new housing -> new
       | commercial/business development to serve and take advantage of
       | higher density -> even higher demand -> higher prices" cycle.
       | 
       | In developed countries, prices seem to be highest in the most
       | developed, densest cities, which is why I suspect this loop
       | exists.
       | 
       | (The counter-argument, which you could make based on SF, would
       | probably be something like "a business cycle of growth like that
       | can happen even without new residential construction, and then
       | you just have even higher prices and more displacement as a
       | result than if you'd built residential to match the business
       | growth." But I wonder if this is ideal for the long-term health
       | of the city or state/country at large, in cases of a bubble or
       | compared to some of that business growth being spread out in more
       | regions.)
        
         | closeparen wrote:
         | Many usages of "induced demand" in this debate are really
         | talking about increase in quantity demanded, i.e. more people
         | will buy housing at a lower price.
         | 
         | The YIMBY response is "of course, that's the point" but for
         | many left-NIMBYs the point was to reduce pressure on the
         | budgets of existing households; accommodating these new buyers
         | is not helpful (and might be harmful).
        
           | maxthegeek1 wrote:
           | "New buyers" == immigrants.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | Geography is important for those cities too. Nobody "builds up"
         | in the US unless there's no place for the sprawl to go. Compare
         | Atlanta and Houston to New York and San Francisco.
        
         | Ericson2314 wrote:
         | In the US, "spread out" == suburbanization which is a huge
         | failure failure on so many levels. (Bad for environment, causes
         | loneliness and isolation, and plain less ROI because proximity
         | creates the dynamic economy).
         | 
         | Unless we have a fully "post-growth" economy, we need more
         | Urban core.
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-20 23:01 UTC)