[HN Gopher] This Anime Does Not Exist
___________________________________________________________________
This Anime Does Not Exist
Author : gwern
Score : 172 points
Date : 2021-01-19 17:38 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (thisanimedoesnotexist.ai)
(TXT) w3m dump (thisanimedoesnotexist.ai)
| FooBarWidget wrote:
| When you look closely at the artwork, you see that almost all of
| them are deformed bodies. I guess this is how ML systems dream.
| rob74 wrote:
| The "deformed-ness" isn't because of the ML, anime/manga girls
| drawn by humans are already deformed enough (just looks at
| those huge eyes, if they were real you probably couldn't fit a
| brain in that head) - the difference is that human artists have
| the sensitivity required to keep their drawings from looking
| too weird, while the AI drives straight over the edge of the
| uncanny valley (or rather, creepy canyon)...
| smegger001 wrote:
| I dont know i saw leg/arms leg on one end arm on the other
| detached from the body next to it there is more to the
| deformed anatomy then simple scale
| vharuck wrote:
| Human-drawn "deformities" are things like super-long legs,
| missing noses, or mouths so wide they look like a Muppet.
|
| This AI creates tumor-like deformities, where limbs are
| missing or melded together. As an example, here's an image
| that couldn't decide if it wanted the girl to have a large
| chest or a dislocated shoulder: https://thisanimedoesnotexist
| .ai/results/psi-0.8/seed9182.pn...
| maxk42 wrote:
| According to this site what really doesn't exist is an anime with
| a male character in it.
| mperham wrote:
| Or anything other than pasty white skin.
| viraptor wrote:
| Did you expect anything taught on that specific dataset to
| generate not-clear-bright skin? Why?
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Not far from the truth! The source dataset was 2.4 million
| images from Danbooru. If you go to the site, you'll see that
| male characters are pretty rare.
|
| They seem to be frequent, but only because there are an ungodly
| number of submissions to danbooru. Think of it more like "for
| every male character, there are at least 10+ female
| characters."
|
| And it doesn't help that a lot of the male characters are drawn
| in a female style...
| [deleted]
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| This is the front page of _Danbooru_ for me, as of posting:
|
| https://i.imgur.com/9eO6ZpU.png [standard warning that it
| might contain nudity and violence exceeding your personal
| threshold]
|
| It seems to me that if it truly used _Danbooru_ , it also
| filtered for specific tags, which is also indicated by the
| art-style that it uses. The ratio of ostensibly male to
| female characters there is more so 7:18
| fireattack wrote:
| One page as a data point is _way_ too small to conclude
| anything. It could totally be some uploaders just happened
| to dump a batch of illustrations with males since he /she
| likes it.
|
| There are tags for male/female which will be a better
| representation. 1girl: 3038k
| 1boy: 559k
|
| (Note: these tags are used when there is only 1 character
| with this gender presents. But it's good enough.)
|
| Your idea about they filtered images could still be true,
| to be clear.
| stretchcat wrote:
| Did this receive a name change? I could have sworn I saw it
| before as _" This waifu does not exist."_
| dang wrote:
| That one was discussed two years ago (already!):
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19205058
| Skyli0n wrote:
| TWDNE uses only portrait cropped faces and doesn't try to
| generate bodies.
| rob74 wrote:
| ...and that's a wise decision, if you take a look at these
| horrors:
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed0527.pn.
| ..
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed8073.pn.
| ..
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed8119.pn.
| ..
|
| apparently it's a very fine line between "dream girl" and
| "nightmare girl"...
| Karawebnetwork wrote:
| This current iteration is linked on
| https://www.thiswaifudoesnotexist.net/, so it's likely a
| different project by the same person/team.
| mattowen_uk wrote:
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-2.0/seed11476.p...
|
| No. Just No.
| maybevain wrote:
| The site does not lie when it claims cranking the creativity
| slider to the max can lead to messy and weird results...
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-2.0/seed37303.p...
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Fairly normal scene from _Parasyte_ , to be honest.
|
| https://i2.wp.com/overmental.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/...
|
| Now with live action:
|
| https://dvdnewsflashthereviews.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/6...
| Pxtl wrote:
| About half of these look like the part of the final scene from
| Akira so I disagree with the title.
| timdaub wrote:
| I can also recommend the author's blog
| https://www.gwern.net/index# that features amazingly detailed
| blog posts and essays.
| rossmohax wrote:
| I respect Japaneese people, their culture and history, but their
| love for sexualized young looking girls makes me uneasy.
| [deleted]
| gwern wrote:
| GAN hobbyists might be interested in what it took to make
| StyleGAN2 scale to such complex images:
| https://www.gwern.net/Faces#extended-stylegan2-danbooru2019-...
| Romanulus wrote:
| ... and perhaps for good reason.
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-2.0/seed41897.p...
| jzer0cool wrote:
| > This Anime Does Not Exist
|
| I had someone walk in as I clicked on it. "What that?" I closed
| the browser and replied. "This anime does not exist".
| jcun4128 wrote:
| damn that infinite canvas is cool
|
| edit: well it's translating a div but still pretty neat
| Kuraj wrote:
| Looks like it's mostly smut.
| josefx wrote:
| I am not sure what images you get, but for me it is more wtf
| than porn. It gets the faces mostly right, it gets the feet
| sometimes right, the arms are consistently between nightmare
| fuel and Deadpool regrowing a lost limb.
| vmception wrote:
| I think it's interesting because it accurately highlights what
| many of us males focus on. (Face+hair && breasts) || (butt &&
| legs)
|
| With everything else and how it mashes together being an
| afterthought.
|
| We can patch our behavior and pretend we are looking at other
| things, but the GAN aggregates what all of the artists did and
| has an aesthetically pleasing result even when they don't make
| sense upon closer inspection, because it is including the
| features we look at.
| Kuraj wrote:
| You're right! I didn't think of it this way.
| [deleted]
| jldugger wrote:
| I honestly assume the author tried this with nudes first, then
| realized it was horroshow and decided "actually, keep the
| clothes on"
| outsidetheparty wrote:
| Thank goodness this anime does not exist:
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed9662.pn...
| Baeocystin wrote:
| Ah yes, Existence-Is-Suffering-Chan. Great series.
| viraptor wrote:
| I'm pretty sure a number of variations of that anime exists,
| just under more specific titles...
| nemothekid wrote:
| Is something like this done in real time? I see there are
| sliders, but is this type of inference something that be done
| cheaply for a couple thousand users?
| pantalaimon wrote:
| Would be great for automated avatar creation.
| ve55 wrote:
| The images were all generated in advnace and are served
| statically, so it's not done in real-time. It would be
| theoretically possible, but just a lot more work and money.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| Cranking the creativity slider to max results in some truly
| Lovecraftian amalgams.
| wonks wrote:
| Okay, has it started to train on horror anime? (Don't you worry,
| it's safe for work.)
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed3756.pn...
| ksec wrote:
| For those who might not realise, Anime [1] are expensive to make.
|
| Hopefully someday those top quality Anime would be cheaper to
| produce with the help of Machine learning and AI. And hopefully
| those Japanese companies [2] hopefully take the world wide market
| more seriously.
|
| [1] https://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/39689/why-is-
| anime...
|
| [2] https://hyperjapan.co.uk/anime/anime-studios-unite-to-
| create...
| amelius wrote:
| Check the main answer on that link. It starts with:
|
| > As animated television goes, anime is actually made on the
| cheap.
| the_af wrote:
| The top voted reply states: "So anime are not really that
| expensive to make, in terms of the usual cost of producing a
| professional level half-hour animated television show with top
| talent."
|
| Regardless, outside of videogames autogenerated content turns
| me off (and sometimes even in videogames, you can tell if
| something was handcrafted or autogenerated). If the way to make
| anime "survive" means removing meaningful human authorial
| input, then maybe it's best if it dies?
|
| Well respected sci-fi authors of all times have seen this
| scenario as a dystopia. I remember one short story -- was it by
| PKD -- where an author inputs a novel "high concept" into a
| computer, a second later says "wait, I have a minor correction"
| and the computer replies "too late, I've already written the
| novel and its sequels based on your concept, it's already being
| distributed".
|
| Surely the answer to "this requires top talent and human
| artistry, and this stuff costs money" cannot be "replace them
| all with Machine Learning", can it?
| x3iv130f wrote:
| The human element will persist in a smaller enthusiast and
| hobby market.
|
| They will be bought by the same sort of people who buy Amish
| made furniture, listen to vinyl records, or who dabble in
| vintage computers.
| smegger001 wrote:
| >outside of videogames autogenerated content turns me off
| (and sometimes even in videogames, you can tell if something
| was handcrafted or autogenerated). If the way to make anime
| "survive" means removing meaningful human authorial input,
| then maybe it's best if it dies?
|
| what if it simple generated frames between the ones drawn by
| hand? so the artist doesn't have to draw every frame just key
| frames say on ever second or half second and the ai filled in
| the in between frames while maintaining consistancy
| Moru wrote:
| That is what you have the intern slaves for. The seniors
| just do start, middle, end (if you are lucky), then you get
| to fill in the rest.
| xrisk wrote:
| What do you mean by autogenerated content? Nothing comes to
| mind that's also not super niche (stuff like generated music
| etc)
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| It speaks in terms of salary of animators and actors and
| compares them.
|
| Of course, all salaries and in general production of almost
| everything is cheaper in most nations than in the U.S.A.
| simply because very few taxes are paid in the U.S.A., so
| employees receive more salary, but every product also costs
| more.
|
| For instance, in 2019, the average net compensation for a
| salaried worker in the U.S.A. was 51 916 U.S.D., with median
| beng 34 248 U.S.D.
|
| I found those numbers for Japan to be 39 851 U.S.D.
| converted, and median 62 9475 U.S.D., actually making median
| higher due to the top-heavy nature of U.S.A. incomes.
|
| This top-heavy nature might also be why it's not far to
| compare absolute star shows with each other.
|
| I, frankly, do not really understand how _The Simpsons_ could
| ever take more resources to produce than anything which
| involves choreographed, three-dimensional fighting scenes
| that involves characters dazzling and jumping through
| buildings:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbcklBCBaFs#t=1m13
| viraptor wrote:
| > means removing meaningful human authorial input
|
| I don't think anyone ever suggests that weird extreme outside
| ai-as-art-itself. Usually the idea with ai creation is "would
| your work be easier if I provided something 90% there that
| you fix up as needed". People will not get replaced soon, but
| rather provided with tools like clippy "hey, you're drawing a
| person, would you like 100 auto-generated running posses that
| you don't have to draw manually?"
| vmception wrote:
| Hope it learns how to include both arms more consistently
| vittore wrote:
| and eyes!
| kurthr wrote:
| Both arms... you mean less than 4? Seriously, I saw a huge
| number of 4-armed "creatures".
| thesteamboat wrote:
| It reminds me of an old article from the Journal of
| Irreproducible Results that posited that the missing limbs
| from ancient Greek statues could be found having been
| transplanted (somehow) to Hindu statues.
| corobo wrote:
| I think it might have tried to draw all-butts anime with this one
| (possibly nsfw depending on who's behind you, be careful)
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed9022.pn...
| klik99 wrote:
| This looks like it was made by some modern day Henry Darger
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed9145.pn...
| rococode wrote:
| The ones with text are so surreal. They _feel_ readable and yet
| everything is just slightly off. I can read Japanese and this
| feeling is very different from reading a script that I completely
| don 't know (like Arabic or something). Maybe when people have a
| stroke and can't comprehend language it feels something like
| this?
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.1/seed0300.pn...
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.5/seed7458.pn...
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.2/seed1289.pn...
| Baeocystin wrote:
| Makes me think of Prisencolinensinainciusol, as listened to by
| an English speaker. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VsmF9m_Nt8
| dvh wrote:
| Can someone decipher this text:
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-0.8/seed1376.pn...
| bikitan wrote:
| No, it's gibberish that resembles Japanese writing but doesn't
| actually form real symbols (although some are close)
| thesteamboat wrote:
| I'm curious, if trained with mostly English text in the
| images rather than Japanese, if it would produce mostly
| recognizable roman characters (but not necessarily words) or
| whether instead the characters would be largely
| unrecognizable.
|
| More reference images with what looks convincingly (to a
| nonspeaker's eyes) like text:
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.5/seed9501.pn.
| ..
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed6369.pn.
| ..
| anchpop wrote:
| This GAN trained on Garfield content often does generate
| real letters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip8HDAi9yMg
| iamatworknow wrote:
| Yeah, I'm seeing what almost looks like saha and deru in
| there, but that's about it.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-0.3/seed0557.pn...
| dang wrote:
| Related from 2019: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19205058
| [deleted]
| dathinab wrote:
| I thing they feed to many borderline NSFW picture material into
| the AI.
| kache_ wrote:
| it seems that these days most anime content borders on NSFW :(
| cafxx wrote:
| > This Anime Does Not Exist
|
| I agree it doesn't. Anime is, by definition, animation; these are
| "just" drawings.
|
| Sure, it's a first step, and eventually we'll get there. But you
| don't look at a picture taken on the set of a movie and say "this
| picture _is_ a movie".
| tinco wrote:
| These generated "anime" pictures look overfitted to me. It's not
| convincing me that it's in any way original. I bet large parts of
| these pictures actually do exist, and it's just mashing its
| memories of these pictures together, instead of actually having
| internalized how to draw manga pictures.
|
| Maybe the source dataset was too small, and it was not trained
| strictly enough, or it should have actually trained on anime
| stills instead of these Moe manga style drawings.
|
| The state of the art, for example that site that generates images
| from sentences is much more impressive to me.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| The dataset was 2.4 million images. I assure you that a ~1GB
| stylegan model isn't overfitting on that.
|
| The fact that it looks overfitted is a sign that the model is
| legit. The interpolation videos are much more convincing.
|
| https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/4Om03hvtvjDhT4c...
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| At the very least it's mashing them together in such a way that
| about 50% of the time they form anatomically correct humans. So
| at the very least it is rotating and shrinking limbs in a three
| dimensional way and internalized that.
|
| The other 50% of the time it goes wrong, and the result is
| either a human that is not anatomically correct, or something
| that doesn't even seem to be a two-dimensional projection of
| three-dimensional Euclidean space.
| freeone3000 wrote:
| I think this is more an indication of homogeneity in current
| anime art than an indictment of the GAN.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| Take into account that the train set is very heterogeneous
| compared to eg. very well lighted, centered (celebrity) faces
| or whatever went into thisfacedoesnotexist.
|
| From the detailed writeup:
|
| > Broadly, his StyleGAN2-ext increases the model size and
| disables regularizations, which are useful for restricted
| domains like faces but fail badly on more complex and
| multimodal domains.
| bitcurious wrote:
| At least on one image, increasing the 'creativity' slider made
| the boobs bigger at every step. At the lowest value a shirt was
| added.
| dwheeler wrote:
| Faces mostly work. Limbs and feet are way more hit-and-miss, lots
| of disturbing messes. It's still intriguing, especially since I
| expect further improvements to the tech over time.
| Rooster61 wrote:
| Might want a NSFW tag on this. Its not totally explicit, but not
| a great thing to have ones boss to walk in on either.
| probably_wrong wrote:
| Visiting the website I feel as if there's something to be
| learned about the current state of anime. Or maybe it's just
| their training data and I'm reading too much into it, dunno.
|
| The model has no idea about what arms are supposed to look like
| [1] but has no problem making sure that the resulting
| abominations are wearing underwear only. Also missing: men.
|
| [1]
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed3578.pn...
| Animats wrote:
| Sometimes it gets arms right. On the rare occasions feet
| appear, they're totally wrong.
|
| Boobs, the system models very well. This probably reflects
| the training data.
| mcphage wrote:
| Boobs? Check. Butts? Check. Why not put them together: http
| s://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed3375.pn...
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| That's because each and every one of them is a stylistic
| _genre_ called _moe_ , that emphasizes the cuteness and
| sexual appeal of the characters.
|
| The a.i. was clearly trained using _moe_ only.
|
| _Moe_ and fan-service tend to walk as one. You will also
| notice that the overwhelming majority of the characters look
| female. A high to absolute number of female characters is
| also common to _moe_.
|
| I'd actually be interested what turns out if an a.i. actually
| be trained from a completely random selection of last year's
| releases in animation from Japan and whether it would manage
| to keep different art styles apart, or somehow blend them.
|
| I don't really believe in the common claim that it is easy to
| recognize animation from Japan from stylistic elements, it
| just so happens that it seems that _moe_ is often what is
| being talked about:
|
| - https://i.ytimg.com/vi/dR-648aYD6s/maxresdefault.jpg
|
| - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENxzRVVVAAIzbOC.jpg
|
| - https://encrypted-
| tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHB0hi...
|
| - https://i.pinimg.com/474x/57/71/bb/5771bbd550c96e1799659e2a
| 0...
|
| - https://assets.mycast.io/characters/monkey-d-
| luffy-12086-nor...
|
| - https://www.indiewire.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2016/07/blame.p...
|
| - https://miro.medium.com/max/3840/1*opC8ndIEWzVartwBG16Chg.p
| n...
|
| I think it would be quite interesting to see what were to
| happen if the a.i. would be trained across a library of very
| different art styles.
| lhorie wrote:
| > I'd actually be interested what turns out if an a.i.
| actually be trained from a completely random selection
|
| Something I noticed is that AIs appear to have trouble with
| differentiating perspective vs art style. What I mean by
| that often characters are in 3/4 view, which naturally
| means one eye will be smaller than the other due to
| perspective. But some art styles have bigger eyes than
| others. What I see sometimes is that the AI then produces
| an image where each eye comes from a different art style.
|
| It doesn't appear to account for the concept of a three-
| dimensionally spherical head and how perspective works with
| respect with such shapes.
|
| It most certainly would not produce good results unless you
| specify that stuff like shirokuma cafe[0] characters are
| not human.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirokuma_Cafe
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Given enough input, it should be able to learn on it's
| own what a humanoid shape is to a human.
|
| Was the _This Person Does Not Exist_ -a.i. simply trained
| with pictures of human heads? As it seems to be quite
| capable of keeping many things apart that are commonly
| kept apart.
| dathinab wrote:
| I think it's a bit of both.
|
| There is a pretty large fanservice/borderline NSFW/smut and
| similar Anime industry.
|
| But there are also quite many Animes which don't have the
| problem or at most have a very small amount of fan service
| "sprinkl in". But in this generator the borderline NSFW stuff
| seems to be _the_ main topic.
| ryandrake wrote:
| I let it run for a minute or so and every image appeared to
| be fully clothed or at least "bikini clothed".
| Psychedelically distorted? Yes. NSFW? I guess it would
| depend on your W.
| astrange wrote:
| That's sampling bias - danbooru2019 is mostly old touhou
| fanart plus whatever a subset of horny men who like tagging
| things have uploaded from pixiv.
|
| Worldwide anime and related media have a mostly female
| audience and certainly don't lack male characters. In Japan
| women write more fanfiction relative to men who draw more
| fanart, I think, but I've never counted.
| renewiltord wrote:
| I enjoyed moving the 'creativity' slider. That was fun.
| godelski wrote:
| There's a lot of GAN monsters here. One of the big improvements
| from StyleGAN->2 was the introduction of Perceptual Path Length
| Loss (PPL). Has the author thought about adjusting that?
| Additionally there is StyleGAN2-ADA (recent) which deals better
| with smaller datasets (I'm not sure how big this dataset is but
| I'm sure it isn't as big as ImageNet). I'd imagine this would
| help significantly because most of the monsters are having issues
| with the body and multiple people, so there's probably not as
| many samples with that feature in the dataset. I'd be interested
| to see what improvements these would make.
|
| Some Fun Monsters:
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.8/seed3103.pn...
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.8/seed4437.pn...
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.8/seed8810.pn...
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.8/seed3309.pn...
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.0/seed9278.pn...
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.8/seed8300.pn...
| WheelsAtLarge wrote:
| These are the ones I actually want to see. You call them
| Monsters I call them AI creatives.
|
| I specially like this one.
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-1.8/seed4437.pn...
| [deleted]
| rongdongdong wrote:
| get shintaro kago in here right now
| Natsu wrote:
| I feel like I'm looking at a painting from Salvador Dali on
| some of these...
|
| https://thisanimedoesnotexist.ai/results/psi-0.6/seed38513.p...
| bigmattystyles wrote:
| //tangent - is 'Does Not Exist' a phrase for ML/AI like
| 'Considered Harmful' is for (presumed) poor programming
| practices?
| mcphage wrote:
| No, it's used for generating new content--especially images--as
| opposed to recognizing / classifying / interpreting data that
| is passed into the system.
| ben_w wrote:
| AFACIT, it's more like Hello World for GANs (not Hello World
| because it's easy, but because it's a cool demo)
| renewiltord wrote:
| If you're curious. That sort of thing is occasionally called a
| 'snowclone'.
| lucasmullens wrote:
| Looks like it, there's a whole list of them here:
| https://thisxdoesnotexist.com/
| sxp wrote:
| https://thisurldoesnotexist.com/
|
| I don't know what I expected.
| korethr wrote:
| Of course there's a This Meme Does Not Exist on that list.
| And already it has generated something that amuses me[1].
|
| I dare say that site is a mild threat to my productivity.
|
| 1. https://imgflip.com/i/4ufa1r
| Krasnol wrote:
| I love the fakefake.news one and how it shows how hard it
| has become to distinguish fake news from real news in US
| politics.
|
| Sports is a different topic though:
| https://www.fakefake.news/article/17nwpk-dolphins-agree-
| to-r...
| scollet wrote:
| It gets dark.
|
| https://www.fakefake.news/article/lnhwaq-new-study-finds-
| mos...
| Animats wrote:
| "This Rental Does Not Exist" would be useful for game world
| building. Fill up entire cities with plausible furnished
| rooms.
|
| A storefront generator would be useful. There are procedural
| city generators that generate blank buildings in a reasonable
| way, but can't fill in the details.
| robviren wrote:
| A combination of meme and nightmare fuel
| mseepgood wrote:
| I don't know much about anime, but why are so many anime women
| depicted in an overly sexualised manner? Didn't we want to leave
| this kind of sexism behind as a society? It's like watching a
| sexist ad from the 1950s, but worse.
| bawolff wrote:
| I dont know much about anime, but isn't at least a portion of
| anime market basically porn? Women are definitely still
| portrayed in a sexualized manner in the porn industry,
| generally speaking.
| UShouldBWorking wrote:
| Go to the gym sometime, women portray themselves in a
| sexualized manner, it's not some patriarchy telling them to
| sexualize themselves.
| UShouldBWorking wrote:
| Not sure what you mean about "wanting to leave it behind." If
| you've been out in public recently, or on instagram or Facebook
| this is what women are posting and dressing like more than
| ever. At the gym yesterday a woman was doing squats in a thong
| with built in leggings. People may say one thing but they have
| sexualized themselves more than ever, and certainly men don't
| seem to be complaining about the new looks.
| mst wrote:
| "overly" is a matter of opinion.
|
| Anime is far from a male-only thing in japan and honestly most
| of the time if I see anime/CGI boobs on my twitter timeline
| it's women retweeting them.
|
| Best to just let people like what they like, and if you don't
| like it, let the people who do enjoy it in peace.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Mostly because that's what one encounters and instantly
| recognizes as "anime".
|
| Most Japanese animation is entertainment targeting young
| teenagers and younger. Japan does however have a considerable
| adult animation market. The a.i. is not trained with any
| "anime", however, but with still promotional art which is of
| far higher quality and clearly trained with the adult market
| where sexualization is, as one might expect, more common.
|
| The paradox is that the unrealistically cute " _moe_ " designs
| are typically targeted at adults and adolescents and most of
| the children's antertainment does not look like that.
|
| Often in Japan, one speaks of four principal demographics:
| young males, young females, older males, and older females. --
| the a.i. is quite clearly entirely trained with the "older
| males" demographic, which should be undertood to target around
| 18-30 years of age, and even within that demographic it is
| trained almost exclusively with _moe_ art.
|
| Most "anime" would not even be instantly recognized as such,
| which is why I think the term is fairly useless. -- it seems
| when people speak of "anime" more often than not what they mean
| is " _moe_ art" whether it be animated or not.
|
| This is what the average "anime" looks like:
| https://assets.moomin.com/uploads/2016/02/Moomin-animation-s...
| astrange wrote:
| It's trained on fanart, mostly from pixiv via another site,
| which is tagged safe/sort-of-nsfw/nsfw but many things are
| tagged safer than they actually are.
| subjectsigma wrote:
| Neither condoning nor condemning, but: Japan is the same
| country where shows featuring brother-sister incest are aired
| on television, albeit late at night. [0] I'm not Japanese, just
| an anime fan, but from my understanding they (Japanese anime
| fans) could not give less of a shit about Western taboos and
| sensibilities.
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oreimo_episodes
| astrange wrote:
| It's not like Japan does a lot of incest in real life, they
| just seem to think romances are boring without violating
| taboos. Japanese people are so against incest they won't have
| sex after marriage 'cause you're related now.
| claudiawerner wrote:
| >Japan is the same country where shows featuring brother-
| sister incest are aired on television
|
| I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that's what Oreimo is
| about, even though the theme and idea underlies the series
| :-)
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| The t.v. version of _Ore.Imo._ was highly censored compared
| to the book whereupon it was based to downplay the
| incestuous themes.
|
| There have been far more explicit works. -- _Aki-Sora_ and
| _Yosugano Sora_ feature explicit sibling sex scenes that
| show everything but the genitals.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Why is the term "western" so often used whenever Japan be
| mentioned to mean either "Anglo-Saxon culture" or even more
| specifically "U.S.A. culture"?
|
| I do not believe that many of these "western taboos",
| invariably dealing with sexual themes, would be so taboo in
| most of continental Europe. -- it is mostly the Anglo-Saxon
| who is known for his staunch moral control on sexuality,
| swearwords, and nudity.
| autarch wrote:
| As others have noted, this was clearly trained on a small
| subset of anime imagery. This sort of thing is definitely a
| thing in anime, but there is also a huge amount of content that
| does not feature highly sexualized female character designs.
| brazzy wrote:
| > I don't know much about anime
|
| Well, this is not representative of all anime, but admittedly
| of a large subsegment.
|
| > but why are so many anime women depicted in an overly
| sexualised manner?
|
| Because it sells very well to young males, especially the
| stereotypical basement-dwelling sexually frustrated nerd
| population. And Japan is the land of the Hikkikomori, after
| all.
|
| But it's not like this kind of thing doesn't exist in the USA
| either. Just take a look at some superhero comics.
| bserge wrote:
| `
| kuroguro wrote:
| > Watch some porn on xvideos.com and lose all hope in
| humanity.
|
| There's a difference between sexism and sexualization in
| entertainment. Say one could enjoy some kinky porn and at the
| same time not treat all women as objects in day to day life.
| The same way you could enjoy a violent movie and not go on a
| killing spree afterwards.
|
| There's clearly a demand for this kind of stuff and I don't
| see any point in trying to shame it out of view - it won't
| change the fact that people enjoy it (they'll just enjoy it
| in secret).
|
| _edit_
|
| Not sure why op deleted the above comment, he did have some
| valid (altho a bit dramatic) points. Looking back the line
| that I quoted might have been sarcasm.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| > _If it makes you feel better, anime men get the exact same
| treatment._
|
| I find this to be a big difference that sets the U.S.A. apart
| from the other two media giants: India and Japan.
|
| India and Japan are far better it seems at tapping the market
| of male sexualization and U.S.A. media has never quite done
| that.
|
| I would in fact argue that this non-sexualization of males
| seems to be a very Anglo-Saxon cultural property, but many
| other cultures do not have the large media market to show it.
|
| I've seen quite a few comments coming from the Anglo-Saxon
| world about the Internationally released Swedish series _Love
| & Anarchy_, about how surprisingly attractive and sexualized
| the males were.
| [deleted]
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