[HN Gopher] Arrest warrant issued for ex-Florida data scientist ...
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       Arrest warrant issued for ex-Florida data scientist Rebekah Jones
        
       Author : chha
       Score  : 241 points
       Date   : 2021-01-17 14:39 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.tampabay.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.tampabay.com)
        
       | stevespang wrote:
       | Obvious attempt to censor a whistleblower who is exposing the
       | Florida Deep State Gov't.
        
       | chha wrote:
       | She's been released it seems, but has been "Censored by the state
       | of Florida until further notice." according to her twitter feed.
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/GeoRebekah/status/1350862633264672772
        
       | LocalH wrote:
       | >After she was fired, Jones started her own online COVID-19
       | dashboard. But she said Saturday that she may no longer be
       | allowed access to computers, the internet or other electronic
       | devices as a condition of her release from jail pending trial.
       | 
       | In the modern day, with so much that is online or involving
       | computers, this should be considered unjust punishment, the likes
       | of which should be reserved only for _child molesters_.
       | 
       | Not speaking to the rest of the story. However, this by itself
       | troubles me.
        
         | mjevans wrote:
         | I'd draw the line at supervised access to conversation with
         | normal people at: if someone is in jail maybe (this is a
         | DIFFERENT debatable topic, beyond this context) their other
         | rights are also suspended during the sentence.
         | 
         | Someone whom is not in jail, who is otherwise allowed to
         | participate in society; abridging their rights of freedom of
         | speech, expression, and discourse with others? That seems over-
         | broad.
        
         | PicassoCTs wrote:
         | IOT - so if she uses some chipped sneaker to count steps, she
         | is in violation. Now that is a law that nobody can follow in
         | modern times. Ring a door bell at a neighbour - you are in
         | violation.
        
         | sp332 wrote:
         | If she were providing a bogus view of the pandemic, there could
         | be consequences for public health. That doesn't seem to
         | actually be the case as far as I can tell, but the magnitude of
         | the punishment seems about right for the alleged crime.
        
           | TomSwirly wrote:
           | If this were the case, the whole Trump Administration and
           | most Republican governors would be getting decades in jail.
        
             | wkearney99 wrote:
             | Well, we can hope, can't we?
        
           | 13415 wrote:
           | I suppose you're being cynical or are joking. Literally
           | millions of US citizens would have to be arrested if that was
           | crime. AFAIK, she's being arrested for having accessed
           | government databases after she had been fired, or something
           | similar to that for which she was not fully authorized.
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | Providing a bogus view of the pandemic is mainstream US
           | politics. You only get this kind of repressive treatment if
           | you've embarrased the government, in this case the state of
           | Florida.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | cronix wrote:
         | How about blacklisting people from monetary/financial services
         | such as banks and credit card co's based on their political
         | views? That goes even further.
         | 
         | https://spectator.us/topic/financial-blacklisting-sargon-akk...
         | 
         | https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2019/02/27/financial-blacklis...
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | As shown by the well known bastion of unbiased, neutral,
           | apolitical news... _Breitbart_.
           | 
           | Quite honestly this looks like a toxic, bigoted individual.
           | I'm absolutely unsurprised that some organizations choose not
           | to do business with him.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Benjamin
        
             | cronix wrote:
             | So, you don't like him, but that has nothing to do with the
             | principle of banning people from society based on legal
             | speech which is the point I'm making. This sort of behavior
             | is toxic to society at large, and so are the implications.
             | I'm glad your political views are of the correct
             | sort....today. Oh, wikipedia.
        
               | CyberDildonics wrote:
               | If you become a public figure based on a toxicity and
               | bigotry businesses may not want to be associated with
               | you.
               | 
               | Patreon is not a bank. Patreon didn't even exist a few
               | years ago. They are a middle man to collect money using
               | other middle men. They don't even have a monopoly on
               | this.
               | 
               | This person is also not a US citizen.
        
               | TomSwirly wrote:
               | > that has nothing to do with the principle of banning
               | people from society based on legal speech
               | 
               | Your comment is bizarre and nonsensical. No one has been
               | "banned from society" based on "legal speech", a
               | meaningless phrase.
               | 
               | A lot of people have been banned from using specific
               | internet services because they used them to make threats
               | of violence, or to tell dangerous lies about COVID.
               | 
               | This isn't "banning them from society". Get a grip!
               | 
               | Also, we are talking two classes of people here:
               | 
               | * people who work against humanity to spread COVID-19
               | based on a pack of obvious lies
               | 
               | * people who wish to violently overthrow the elected US
               | government based on a pack of obvious lies
               | 
               | and frankly, these people can get fucked. They are
               | destroying the country and the planet, and they deserve
               | every single penalty the law can give them.
               | 
               | If private corporations, which Republicans claim to love,
               | use their perfectly legal power to stop doing business
               | with horrible psychopaths, then good for them.
               | 
               | One side went crazy, and now we have to choose sides.
               | 
               | Are you on the side of the delusional hateful lawbreaking
               | violent psychopaths, or with the majority?
               | 
               | (My theory - you are not with the majority.)
        
               | walrus01 wrote:
               | Think of the financial institution that chooses not to do
               | business with him as a bakery, and sargon is a gay
               | wedding cake.
               | 
               | Banned from society? I was unaware that you're "banned
               | from society" because private business Patreon doesn't
               | want a relationship with you.
        
               | ZoomerCretin wrote:
               | The modern examples of a gay couple being refused service
               | is a poor example. They can't just go to the other
               | financial institutions, because all of them have black-
               | listed them. An Internet business cannot feasibly operate
               | on cash alone.
               | 
               | Just like any farmer in the 1800s can just go lay his own
               | railroad tracks across the continent, every website that
               | hosts wrongthink is equally capable of creating their own
               | banks, payment processors, data centers, and internet
               | connections. These businesses aren't restaurants. They're
               | critical, privatized infrastructure.
        
               | CyberDildonics wrote:
               | What banks was he black listed from?
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | People were banned from financial services for growing weed
           | and being sex workers, largely at the request of the right.
           | And now the right is complaining this is coming back to them.
        
             | temp8964 wrote:
             | The equivalent would be advocating for "growing weed and
             | being sex workers".
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | It is curious that this sort of restriction is possible. I
         | don't think I could pay most of my monthly bills without the
         | internet, for example. I assume there's also many jobs that
         | require home internet.
        
         | snypher wrote:
         | As a condition of pretrial release for a presumed innocent
         | party, even _accused_ child molesters should have access to a
         | computer.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | CapitalistCartr wrote:
       | While the State has handled this case wrong, she is _not_
       | innocent in this. She made a bunch of drama about her
       | interpretation of the data, which was, at best, no better than
       | the State 's method, and more likely, she was flat-out wrong. She
       | is mostly a drama queen making a crazy mess.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | _" not innocent"_
         | 
         | Like criminally not innocent? Not clear on what you mean hear.
        
           | jkhdigital wrote:
           | My interpretation is that she's not the whistleblower she
           | claims to be, and in fact has unfairly cast a dark shadow
           | over the work of everyone else involved in Florida's Covid-19
           | dashboard through her accusations.
           | 
           | Honestly, I think she was just attributing sinister motives
           | to fairly inane bureaucratic decisions about data and
           | reporting. But once she decided to go on CNN and lob
           | accusations, this whole fiasco turned into a political
           | Rorschach test that is completely unmoored from the
           | underlying reality.
        
             | raphlinus wrote:
             | I've been watching with some interest, and feel like I
             | don't know anywhere near the whole story. We all look for
             | "good guys" and "bad guys" to make sense of a narrative,
             | but I come away with the feeling that Ms Jones is not
             | solidly in the former camp. One data point I have for this
             | is the way she tears down others who are doing their best
             | work, for example a very public feud with Emily Oster:
             | https://twitter.com/GeoRebekah/status/1344067350216265729
             | 
             | We have some serious work to do. I'm very hopeful that
             | we're going to have a very solid team at the national
             | leadership level in 3 days, after a year of a vacuum, but
             | I'm still concerned about state and local levels. I don't
             | think these types of personality fights are very helpful.
        
           | CapitalistCartr wrote:
           | The State of Florida has handled the case in a Hollywood-
           | level of bungling, thuggish ineptitude. Both sides in this
           | case are dirty. As an active Floridian, I've followed the
           | Covid numbers closely, and at first her story was deeply
           | worrying. But her actual data arguments are idiotic. She
           | doesn't understand data analysis at all. Meanwhile the State
           | acts like the Mafia. Ron DeSantis has been one of the dumber
           | governers we've had, and that's saying something. Regardless
           | of her, I'd love to see him impeached over this.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | selimthegrim wrote:
             | Can you give an example of one of her idiotic arguments?
        
         | kordlessagain wrote:
         | Spoken like a true sexist.
        
           | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
           | Calling a woman a drama queen is not sexist. Just like
           | calling a dumb man a meathead.
           | 
           | It would be sexists to say "all women are drama queens."
           | Police some other type of derogatory remark elsewhere please.
           | You're adding nothing to the conversation.
        
             | craigching wrote:
             | Do we really need the derogatory remarks in the first
             | place?
        
               | mythrwy wrote:
               | That's a separate, (but important) topic.
        
         | lawnchair_larry wrote:
         | You should take a look at her previous run-ins with the law.
         | Definitely an unstable individual who has a history of
         | victimizing others.
        
       | Kim_Bruning wrote:
       | Is there any way in which people can help her here?
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | She does appear to have legal representation with the right
         | kind of experience. Stephen Dobson, from this firm
         | https://www.ddslaw.net/Attorneys/ will be her criminal defense
         | lawyer. She's also already filed a civil case.
         | 
         | A sibling comment is linked to her GoFundMe, which appears to
         | be about halfway to it's 500k goal.
        
         | Grazester wrote:
         | I believe this is her gofundme
         | 
         | https://www.gofundme.com/f/DefendScience
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | firstSpeaker wrote:
       | Anyone has the facts, that are out about this, subject noted to
       | share? Too much speculations and armchair opinions re floating
       | around.
        
       | Jackson12 wrote:
       | If a judge issued a warrant for her arrest there must be
       | something there. So idk. Suppose it could still be selective
       | enforcement.
        
         | Hello71 wrote:
         | this is way too optimistic for the US criminal justice system.
         | police and prosecutors regularly lie on warrant applications,
         | and judges regularly grant the flimsiest of justifications for
         | search and arrest warrants. there is no legal accountability
         | whatsoever: the most that defense attorneys can usually do in
         | the case of illegal search warrants is to have the illegally
         | seized evidence excluded; there is no punishment for the state
         | using its immense power to harass and intimidate individuals.
        
           | Jackson12 wrote:
           | If a cop willfully lies on a warrant they are generally
           | civilly liable. I am by no means saying that no one in the
           | criminal justice systems acts unethically. But if a judge
           | signs a warrant for someone's arrest there is almost always
           | good reason to suspect they committed a crime.
        
             | Hello71 wrote:
             | yes, and if a cop murders a civilian they are (supposed to
             | be) liable, but innumerable news stories over the past...
             | long time have shown that not to be the case far too often.
        
               | Jackson12 wrote:
               | I actually can think of no case where a cop clearly shot
               | someone in bad faith and wasn't ultimately charged. It's
               | much more often the case that the cop has some plausible
               | argument that they made a bad decision in good faith.
               | Which makes the cases very hard to prosecute. It's pretty
               | seldom the case that prosecutors corruptly ignore clear
               | cut misconduct.
               | 
               | There are flaws in the justice system. And by no means is
               | it totally fair. But in this sort of situation, where a
               | judge has seen the evidence and issued a warrant, usually
               | there is usually something there. It's very possible this
               | is selective prosecution. But, I'll bet you a good sum of
               | money at even odds that there's probable cause she
               | committed a crime.
        
         | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
         | I think the right move is to defer judgment until the charges
         | come out, but it's a real possibility. Computer crimes are
         | notoriously vulnerable to selective prosecution depending on
         | how much the prosecutors don't like you; in most states,
         | Florida included, any unauthorized access to any computer
         | system can be charged as a felony.
        
         | cascom wrote:
         | Unfortunately if anyone were to have their laptop and emails
         | searched with an eye towards coming up with probable cause to
         | make an arrest, no one is safe.
         | 
         | Just as it's realistically impossible to not break driving laws
         | while behind the wheel, giving pretext to a traffic stop, the
         | same is true if you give people looking to get you a huge swath
         | of your life.
        
       | MisterBastahrd wrote:
       | How many other instances are out there where authorities "can't
       | say what someone is charged with" until they're in custody. This
       | smells like a CYA deal with DeSantis and his partisan bungling of
       | the COVID crisis.
        
         | ineedasername wrote:
         | AFAIK, an arrest warrant isn't required for felonies. It's
         | required for misdemeanors unless the crime is witnessed by an
         | officer. That may point towards this not being a major
         | infraction to begin with. Either way, it really is looking more
         | & more like harassment
        
         | fdschoeneman wrote:
         | Probably millions of instances. I think I'd prefer the state
         | not announce what it is charging people with. Once she's
         | charged, she should be able to say so. But consider the
         | possibility one is falsely accused of rape. In my case, I'd
         | want the charge kept private until the courts sorted things
         | out. Or until I was falsely imprisoned at least.
        
         | orangecat wrote:
         | Please define "partisan bungling" given that Florida has a
         | lower death rate(1) and faster vaccine rollout(2) than the US
         | average, while keeping schools open in accordance with expert
         | recommendations.
         | 
         | (1): https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-
         | visualization/?chart=states...
         | 
         | (2): https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-
         | glo...
        
           | ineedasername wrote:
           | That's the whole point of this thing: You're pointing to
           | Florida's numbers and assuming "no bungling".
           | 
           | This person arrested is alleging that Florida has been
           | fudging the numbers to make their situation look much better
           | than it is.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | orangecat wrote:
             | _This person arrested is alleging that Florida has been
             | fudging the numbers to make their situation look much
             | better than it is._
             | 
             | Except she's not. Here's the dashboard that she set up
             | after being fired: https://floridacovidaction.com/. And
             | here's the official state data: https://experience.arcgis.c
             | om/experience/96dd742462124fa0b38.... The numbers are
             | virtually identical.
             | 
             | There is exactly as much evidence for the claim that
             | Florida is falsifying data as there is for the claim that
             | Trump really won the election.
        
               | wbl wrote:
               | Florida was falsifying data, got caught, and stopped.
        
             | jkhdigital wrote:
             | "Fudging the numbers" is a vague accusation. If I
             | arbitrarily add $1 to net profit on my company's annual
             | report, then I've "cooked the books" but who cares.
             | 
             | If you read the emails related to this case, it's clear
             | that the behavior she describes as "fudging the numbers"
             | has no material impact on Florida's Covid-19 reporting.
        
               | ineedasername wrote:
               | You're correct, but I'm not saying they definitely fudged
               | the numbers, or what method they might have used. I'm
               | saying the allegation is that they fudged them, and
               | therefore you can't simply point to the official numbers
               | to support the claim that they did not fudge them. The
               | way to refute that claim is with transparency and
               | addressing this woman's specific complaints.
               | 
               | Of course the state isn't really obligated to refute
               | every claim made against them, but whether they do it
               | don't, I'm only saying that the state is only denying her
               | claim, snot actual evidence to support their counter
               | claim of no manipulation of the data.
        
             | bitexploder wrote:
             | People also need to realize the numbers may look identical
             | now but they were manipulated and changed a lot before the
             | election and after. It was plain as day manipulation. Now
             | that this is exposed DeSantis had to fix the numbers back
             | to reality and he's paying Rebekah Jones back for making
             | his life difficult.
        
           | hvac wrote:
           | > Florida has a lower death rate
           | 
           | To be fair, Florida also has some of the lowest latitudes in
           | the US.
        
           | jkhdigital wrote:
           | Shhh! Can't let the facts get in the way of a good narrative.
        
           | gnusty_gnurc wrote:
           | Funny to see you getting downvotes when you're entirely
           | correct.
           | 
           | I wonder if the downvote brigade thinks Cuomo/Murphy did a
           | good job.
        
         | cascom wrote:
         | It does, but it's also SOP with the police, if someone speaks
         | out against them or if they come up empty handed charge them
         | with something so as to not look stupid.
        
         | sonotathrowaway wrote:
         | Having cops invade her home and hold her children at gunpoint
         | didn't scare her into becoming his scapegoat, so it's important
         | to escalate the campaign of violence against her.
        
           | lawnchair_larry wrote:
           | This didn't happen.
        
           | koolba wrote:
           | > Having cops invade her home and hold her children at
           | gunpoint didn't scare her into becoming his scapegoat, so
           | it's important to escalate the campaign of violence against
           | her.
           | 
           | You make it sound like the police broke into her home and
           | deliberately pointed weapons at her children. That's
           | completely bullshit.
           | 
           | The police had a warrant signed by a judge. They repeatedly
           | asked her to open the door, she refused. This went on for
           | over 20 minutes. When they eventually did get inside, they're
           | entering a premise where the suspect had already demonstrated
           | to not be cooperating and it's standard practice to enter
           | with your weapon drawn.
           | 
           | You could argue with whether the warrant itself is justified.
           | But the police did everything the way they're supposed to and
           | the only person who put those children at risk was the mother
           | who refused to cooperate with a legally signed warrant.
        
             | bitexploder wrote:
             | She didn't know if she was being arrested and was in
             | pajamas. I've read of other famous people being given
             | plenty of time (in FL) to get ready before a search warrant
             | is executed. Considering what we know about Florida and
             | what is happening there with COVID and it's reporting, I am
             | willing to give her the benefit of doubt. Plus the pretext
             | of the warrant is bad. "Cops just doing their job" doesn't
             | matter when it is a politically motivated state actor. They
             | are the state and a part of the machine being used to
             | violate her rights.
        
               | yanderekko wrote:
               | >I've read of other famous people being given plenty of
               | time (in FL)
               | 
               | I wouldn't call it an injustice that she wasn't granted
               | some sort of special treatment that's normally reserved
               | for "famous people".
        
               | bitexploder wrote:
               | It's more about fair and equal treatment, whatever that
               | is. The hypocrisy of modern policing is extreme. Should
               | she have been given more or less time? Clearly give
               | different treatment to some people. The law is supposed
               | to be impartial. And in a case that is already political
               | suppression of first amendment rights, it stands out.
        
               | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
               | Fighting against the state is like skipping boulders on
               | water. You're gonna need a massive amount of momentum
               | behind it to get it to work.
        
             | elmomle wrote:
             | _The only person who put those children at risk was the
             | mother who refused to cooperate with a legally signed
             | warrant._
             | 
             | Wow, let's extend that reasoning just a bit further. If
             | someone SWATs me (or pulls strings to get a warrant for my
             | arrest), and I don't open the door immediately, I bear the
             | responsibility for putting my family at risk?
        
               | isoskeles wrote:
               | Immediately? She had over 20 minutes of knocking and a
               | few phone calls in that period. People should watch the
               | video and think about how long of a time 20 minutes is.
               | They'll most likely even find it boring and start
               | skipping ahead to more knocking without a response.
        
               | MereInterest wrote:
               | > She had over 20 minutes of knocking and a few phone
               | calls in that period.
               | 
               | So what? If somebody is knocking on my door, in the
               | middle of the night, claiming to be a police officer,
               | then making phone calls to verify that is 100%
               | reasonable. If I had just been fired for politically
               | motivated reasons, then making phone calls to alert the
               | media when your home is being raided is 100% reasonable.
               | 
               | > They'll most likely even find it boring and start
               | skipping ahead to more knocking without a response.
               | 
               | Police are allowed to be bored. Police are allowed to sit
               | outside a house and wait. It does them no harm, and does
               | not justify them using additional force when serving the
               | warrant.
        
               | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
               | It was a sunny morning, not the middle of the night.
               | Obviously that's a minor detail, but it's indicative of a
               | larger problem - there's been a big game of telephone on
               | the actual circumstances of this raid, so your mental
               | image of what happened may be different than what the
               | video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of7ITokML-A)
               | shows.
        
               | MereInterest wrote:
               | Good point, and thank you. The relevant pieces that I had
               | remembered were that there was a police raid for a non-
               | violent crime, and was emphasizing that that is not an
               | urgent issue. It's the same way that if you see police
               | lights pulling you over on a deserted road, you should
               | call to verify that it is a legitimate officer.
        
               | stretchcat wrote:
               | Is the timestamp on that video accurate? T13:26 sounds
               | like the early afternoon, not even the morning let alone
               | late at night.
        
               | isoskeles wrote:
               | T13:26:00Z
               | 
               | Z is for "Zulu" time zone
               | (https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9706688/what-does-
               | the-z-...)
               | 
               | So hour 13:00 in Z would be 8:00 am in Florida.
        
               | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
               | Swatting first of all is a crime. Secondly yes, you do
               | need to comply, even if you are innocent. Otherwise you
               | will get shot.
               | 
               | Nobody is denying it's government overreach, blatant
               | disregard to our rights, and breaks the 4th amendment.
               | But wool should've been over everyone's eyes like 10
               | years ago. The US acts no different than China in how the
               | state allows government abuse of power to fuck you
               | bureaucratically. Unlike places like Germany where the
               | state compensates you for your time and money if they
               | can't prove your criminality, also reserving your job as
               | well unless convicted; The US just says fuck you but only
               | with slightly more rights than China gives their
               | citizens.
        
             | foepys wrote:
             | Don't Americans have the right for their lawyer or a
             | trusted witness to be present during search warrants? If
             | they do, why would police ever expect to enter without
             | delay?
        
               | alextheparrot wrote:
               | No, they don't.
        
               | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
               | Are there other countries where it works that way? It's
               | hard for me to see how a standard where you don't even
               | have to come outside until your lawyer gets there would
               | work; what would stop people from using the waiting time
               | to destroy all the evidence the police came for?
        
               | dlp211 wrote:
               | Because the burden is on the State and we're under no
               | obligation to help them. They're job is not supposed to
               | be easy.
        
               | PeterisP wrote:
               | Coming from a place where search warrants do have be
               | executed with the oversight of the owner or their
               | representative, police would still expect to enter
               | without delay.
               | 
               | In a situation like this there may be a pause until the
               | owner or lawyer arrives, but during that pause the people
               | would not be permitted to be in the to-be-searched
               | location without police supervision; the owner has the
               | right to supervise police while they are searching, but
               | they don't have any privacy right to do stuff there
               | before letting the police in; if the lawyer's presence is
               | required then whoever is in that location would let the
               | police in and wait for the lawyer together with the
               | police officers with neither doing anything until the
               | search commences. If noone is present, then the police
               | may seal the door while they wait for the owner or their
               | representative to arrive; or, alternatively (e.g. if the
               | owner is on the run), there is a process to recruit
               | neutral witnesses from the community, e.g. having your
               | neighbours supervise the search and sign off on what was
               | taken out during the search.
        
             | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
             | The cops aren't wild animals. They should have the ability
             | to figure out whether or not a web developer/data scientist
             | at home with warrants for nonviolent allegations is worth
             | drawing a gun in a house with children in it.
             | 
             | We need to hold cops to a higher standard of behavior.
        
               | yanderekko wrote:
               | Be that as it may, spinning the story as involving the
               | cops "holding her children at gunpoint" is a wild
               | distortion and indicates the low quality of discussion
               | that this issue has generated.
        
               | stretchcat wrote:
               | In Florida, even web developers are allowed to own guns.
               | It sounds like the cops kept a level head and didn't
               | shoot anybody. This was probably pretty routine for
               | Florida cops.
        
               | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
               | This particular warrant case is not being searched for
               | any violent behavior and has no history of violence, with
               | the warrant happening in a place with no history of
               | violence or abuse. There is no reason to be pulling guns
               | in a home with children as soon as one enters it.
               | 
               | It shouldn't be routine to draw weapons in a place where
               | there is no reason to presume weapons exist.
        
               | stretchcat wrote:
               | It being Florida is enough reason to presume guns might
               | be present in the house. Note that contrary to the
               | expectations of many foreigners, Florida does not have a
               | list of all Floridians who own guns. In fact it's
               | actually illegal for the state to create such a list.
               | 
               | The children seem to be irrelevant; if children weren't
               | in the house I doubt you'd suddenly be fine with what the
               | cops did, so the presence of children doesn't contribute
               | to your point. Furthermore some of the narratives about
               | what happened are greatly exaggerating the situation,
               | claiming that cops pointed guns in the faces of children.
               | I've seen no evidence of this happening, so I think some
               | people are cynically pointing to the children in an
               | attempt to emotionally manipulate others. I don't see any
               | other reason to mention the kids. They simply aren't
               | relevant to the story.
        
               | sonotathrowaway wrote:
               | Fun fact: when the police needed to find a judge to
               | evaluate the strength of their warrant, the one they
               | found was a family court judge brand new to the bench,
               | whose signature in her warrant literally being the first
               | one he signed in his career. They understand it makes it
               | abundantly clear that they are engaged in a witch hunt,
               | but communicating threats of state violence against
               | whistleblowers is a much more important priority than the
               | semblance of justice.
        
               | bjornsing wrote:
               | > The cops aren't wild animals.
               | 
               | Sadly, when you give people a stick and tell them they
               | are allowed to beat other people with it, at least some
               | of them tend to start behaving a bit like wild animals.
               | It's sad, but seemingly unavoidable.
        
         | clcuc wrote:
         | What does CYA mean in this context? Sorry about the ignorance.
        
           | grzm wrote:
           | cover your ass
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | chmaynard wrote:
       | This comment thread is an example of social media at its absolute
       | worst. Have an opinion? Big deal, everyone has an opinion. My
       | advice is to keep it to yourself.
        
         | vlozko wrote:
         | I mean, isn't part of the reason we have comments is to discuss
         | opinions? The majority (though not all) of the comments I'm
         | reading here are saying that there's not enough information to
         | form a good, educated one.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | MilnerRoute wrote:
       | CBS includes an additional detail:
       | 
       |  _" Florida Department of Law Enforcement officials said Rebekah
       | Jones has been under investigation since early November after
       | someone illegally accessed the state's emergency alert health
       | system...."_
       | 
       | https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/e2-80-98censored-by-the...
        
       | tzm wrote:
       | Does this news makes you nervous about moving to Florida?
        
         | stretchcat wrote:
         | No, that would be tweakers, alligators, and hurricanes.
        
           | Triv888 wrote:
           | coral snakes, rattle snakes, black widows and brown recluse
           | spiders are fun too
        
       | Pfhreak wrote:
       | This is an obviously politically motivated use of state violence,
       | and I hope this case goes in her favor.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | anonu wrote:
         | How can you pass judgement without knowing all the facts?
         | Clearly there's still more to this story...
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | > How can you pass judgement without knowing all the facts?
           | 
           | From the article, and quite shocking:
           | 
           | > The Florida Department of Law Enforcement confirmed there
           | is a warrant for Jones' arrest but said it cannot disclose
           | what charges she faces until she is in custody.
        
         | lawnchair_larry wrote:
         | If you read the facts available, it appears that this isn't the
         | case at all, and it seems that we're being sold a politically
         | motivated narrative once again.
        
           | DaniloDias wrote:
           | In this media climate? What an aberration! </s>
        
         | fdschoeneman wrote:
         | I think it would be helpful if you let us know why you believe
         | it is obvious.
        
           | josho wrote:
           | In what sane world do you merit a police raid for publishing
           | public health data?
           | 
           | Assuming the worst that she accessed a computer she was not
           | authorized to access. This data, in the aggregate, is public
           | data.
           | 
           | Regardless innocent until proven guilty applies. And to date
           | the state hasn't even made their charges public which seems
           | ridiculous. 'I have an arrest warrant for you, but I can't
           | tell you the charge'.
        
             | curlypaul924 wrote:
             | > And to date the state hasn't even made their charges
             | public which seems ridiculous. 'I have an arrest warrant
             | for you, but I can't tell you the charge'.
             | 
             | As I understand it, the police can tell _her_ the charges,
             | but they cannot make the details of the warrants public
             | until she has been processed. After that it becomes public
             | record with the court.
             | 
             | This is itself an issue, because websites scrape court
             | documents and re-publish the information as a service. They
             | then charge a service fee to have the information removed,
             | even in cases where the charges have been dropped.
        
             | ptero wrote:
             | Some personal medical data is very sensitive, and for a
             | good reason. I am not claiming that this _is_ true in this
             | case, and the state _does_ have to argue and prove why it
             | decided that both the search and the arrest were justified;
             | but it is also not clear at this point that there is no
             | case either.
             | 
             | Publishing _public_ , aggregated, anonymous health data
             | should not be a cause for this arrest; and I hope the judge
             | that signed the warrant understands this. So there must be
             | a different explanation and the state must provide it, and
             | quickly.
        
         | qwerty12345678 wrote:
         | So in other words, that's what you want to believe, so you will
         | believe it without any actual facts. Ignorant people like you
         | worsen the division in America.
        
       | LatteLazy wrote:
       | What is the law that sending an anonymous messages saying "be a
       | hero" breaks? It seems at worst to be spam and a raid for
       | spamming a small number of people seems very heavy handed...
        
       | ransom1538 wrote:
       | They have her ip address [1]. It is super easy to prosecute with
       | her ip address marked on the sent message. I feel bad for her,
       | but, why hand the prosecution so much (use a vpn)? This is like
       | driving drunk with your headlights off. At this point, she will
       | have to plead out.
       | 
       | "An affidavit for the warrant claims that an unauthorized message
       | sent from a state emergency management account on Nov. 10 was
       | traced to an IP address associated with Jones."
       | 
       | https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/12/09/raid-f...
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | Some more details on the system she is alleged to have
         | accessed: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/12/florida-
         | posted-t...
        
       | BrianOnHN wrote:
       | This weekend I heard directly from a current DOT employee,
       | formerly Dept Of Health, in the FL capitol:
       | 
       | "We were just following the WHO recommendations."
       | 
       | "She's just a web developer and doesn't understand anything about
       | the numbers."
        
         | nix23 wrote:
         | >>with dual degrees in earth science and journalism in 2012
         | 
         | >>received a dual master's degree in geography and mass
         | communication
         | 
         | >>where she completed course work with an emphasis on data
         | science and was working on a doctoral dissertation titled Using
         | Native American Sitescapes to Extend the North American
         | Paleotempestological Record Through Coupled Remote Sensing and
         | Climatological Analysis
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebekah_Jones
         | 
         | ...Just a Webdeveloper
        
           | xibalba wrote:
           | Which of those degrees qualifies her as a data scientist
           | capable of contravening WHO recommendations?
           | 
           | Moreover, she is repeatedly referred to in the press as a
           | data scientist, but all accounts of her actual work are that
           | of a dashboard developer. Having done both myself, I can
           | attest that they are _very_ different types of work
           | warranting very different training.
        
             | eganist wrote:
             | > Which of those degrees qualifies her as a data scientist
             | capable of contravening WHO recommendations?
             | 
             | Literally all of her research involved gathering and
             | communicating relevant insights from vast and disparate
             | data sets, which is the role you just described.
             | 
             | > Having done both myself, I can attest that they are very
             | different types of work warranting very different training.
             | 
             | She's educated as a data scientist specific to a given
             | field. No different than a rocket scientist running numbers
             | at a hedge fund. And I'd argue training v. education are
             | vastly different; education gives context to job-specific
             | training.
        
               | xibalba wrote:
               | > She's educated as a data scientist specific to a given
               | field.
               | 
               | > [data scientist] is the role you just described.
               | 
               | No. She's not a data scientist and she herself doesn't
               | even make this claim [1] Her job titles were: 1) GIS
               | Analyst and 2) Geographic Information Systems Manager.
               | Both are systems/dev roles. Clearly, neither is a
               | position from which one is qualified to contravene the
               | WHO.
               | 
               | Her degrees (per her own LinkedIn page) are in
               | _Geography_. Take a look at the degree requirements at
               | Syracuse (which offers both a BA and a BS (Jones earned
               | the BA option)) [2] and LSU [3]. Next, go look at a few
               | DS job postings and tell me the requirements are aligned
               | (they are not).
               | 
               | I'm sure Jones is smart. I'm sure Jones is well versed in
               | Geography. But she's not a data scientist. Even if she
               | were, her skills and experience would not qualify her to
               | overrule WHO guidance.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.linkedin.com/in/stormjones/ [2] http://co
               | ursecatalog.syr.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=3&po...
               | [3] https://lsu.edu/ga/programs/msgeography.php
        
               | nix23 wrote:
               | >GIS Analyst
               | 
               | You know what GIS means? Geo INFORMATION
               | System....Analyst.
               | 
               | Not many other Fields produces more Data then geo...maybe
               | Weather...that's more complicated data (and hard to
               | interpret) as most people who claim the title Data
               | Scientist will ever see.
               | 
               | >But she's not a data scientist.
               | 
               | Stop with that it's no even a real job, it's a base
               | training. Do you really think a Data Scientist has any
               | plan what Cern Data s even mean...no.
        
               | prepend wrote:
               | > Literally all of her research involved gathering and
               | communicating...
               | 
               | Pedantically pointing out that, literally, this is a
               | false statement.
               | 
               | It's ok to accurately reflect her work and that advanced
               | degrees are hard without assigning incorrect and
               | hyperbolic characteristics.
        
               | eganist wrote:
               | > Pedantically pointing out that, literally, this is a
               | false statement.
               | 
               | My statement is so generic as to be true in the context
               | of fields involving scientific research. And that's in
               | essence the point: that's what data science is in the
               | end.
               | 
               | This isn't an attempt to incense those with Data
               | Scientist in their job title or job description, but it's
               | why so many STEM folks can easily find homes in Data
               | Science without formal education on the topic.
        
               | prepend wrote:
               | Not really, I don't think all her research involved
               | gathering and communicating relevant insights. There's
               | lots of other parts of research.
               | 
               | Also, data science is a sort of generic term and trying
               | to generalize to any form of common characteristics is
               | not very productive. I'm not aware of any certified
               | curricula for data science or accreditation bodies so
               | it's kind of a marketing label assigned to everything
               | from boot camps to GIS programs.
               | 
               | I think this is positive since lots of people work with
               | data. But it's problematic to assume that it means
               | anything other than someone wants to signal that they
               | work with data.
        
               | eganist wrote:
               | > Not really, I don't think all her research involved
               | gathering and communicating relevant insights. There's
               | lots of other parts of research.
               | 
               | But that is, in fact, the definition of research ("the
               | systematic investigation into and study of materials and
               | sources in order to establish facts and reach new
               | conclusions") and the publication of research findings
               | fits the definition of communication.
               | 
               | I guess my point is: if you're going to be pedantic on
               | the internet, you should consider whether it's worth your
               | time defending your own contribution. I've got no qualms
               | defending the idea that Rebekah Jones is a data
               | scientist.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | syshum wrote:
             | I love that all the replies are just competing appeals to
             | Authority
             | 
             | "My Experts(tm) are more Experts(tm) than your Experts(tm)"
             | 
             | Not a single person in this thread as actually made any
             | factual statements or presented any actual evidence of
             | either sides correctness or validity.
             | 
             | It simply "She has these degree;s so we should listens" vs
             | "The WHO Says...."
             | 
             | It would be amusing if it was not so sad...
        
           | jjcon wrote:
           | What does that have to do with anything? Her job was a web
           | developer, not a data scientist. None of those qualify her to
           | understand statistics better than the plethora of those
           | employed by the state that are working diligently.
           | 
           | Plenty of employees have been let go for spreading falsities
           | around COVID, most having been on the other side (COVID isn't
           | real etc). These behaviors are absolutely unacceptable and
           | are dangerous.
        
             | nix23 wrote:
             | >>where she completed course work with an emphasis on data
             | science and was working on a doctoral dissertation titled
             | Using Native American Sitescapes to Extend the North
             | American Paleotempestological Record Through Coupled Remote
             | Sensing and Climatological Analysis.
             | 
             | >None of those qualify her to understand statistics better
             | than the plethora of those employed by the state that are
             | working diligently.
             | 
             | Is your society really that stupid that you have to be a
             | specialist to understand statistics?
        
               | andybak wrote:
               | Statistics is one field in particular where it's easy for
               | non-experts to reach completely false conclusions.
        
               | nix23 wrote:
               | True with complex stuff, but we talk about covid-
               | cases/day/region...that's really something everyone
               | should interpret correctly.
        
               | jjcon wrote:
               | COVID statistics can be very very difficult to interpret
               | correctly, especially at the beginning when data was
               | scarce.
               | 
               | For instance, most people agree it is best to exclude
               | totally random testing sites from COVID numbers because
               | even though the false positive rate is very low, at the
               | beginning so was the incidence of COVID which means most
               | of the positive tests would be false positive.
               | 
               | Including them or improperly dealing with that data would
               | be considered base rate fallacy
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy
               | 
               | This is just one statistical phenomenon that has to be
               | dealt with. It's complicated and sometimes messy but it
               | absolutely requires top minds
        
               | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
               | Proper interpretation of even the simplest data is easy
               | to get wrong. For example, I routinely see smart, well-
               | informed people describe the number of Covid deaths
               | reported in a day as the number of people who died of
               | Covid that day.
        
               | hedora wrote:
               | Yeah; some sibling comments here say Covid stats are
               | difficult to interpret, but cite phenomena (non random
               | samples, false positives, conflation of population and
               | sample statistics, etc) that should be covered by any
               | reasonable introductory statistics course.
               | 
               | In the US, that's first or second year undergrad
               | territory. Overseas, it's often covered in high school.
               | 
               | It's particularly depressing that science reporters
               | regularly get these things wrong.
               | 
               | I can't imagine what (lack of) credentials are necessary
               | to land such a job, but I often wonder if a basic
               | understanding of statistics is a disqualifying
               | credential.
        
               | jjcon wrote:
               | Mods this is obviously a nix23 alt account which was
               | already flagged in multiple places by mods for spamming
               | flame bait. Both accounts post in the same places
               | regularly.
               | 
               | But I'll bite. The point of providing an example is to
               | show how there can be unobvious effects that are specific
               | to the medical field (and isn't as simple as cases per
               | day). It takes Doctors and statisticians working together
               | to interpret this info correctly. And no not al the
               | effects are covered in stats101 despite how the freshman
               | may protest.
        
               | hedora wrote:
               | (also, the flagging of nix23's comment is way out of
               | line.)
        
               | YetAnotherNick wrote:
               | Lots of highly educated people are on opposite side that
               | lockdowns are very unneeded and government is
               | overplaying/lying about the severity including the one
               | who founded most valuable space company.
        
               | nix23 wrote:
               | >including the one who founded most valuable space
               | company.
               | 
               | I wonder why would he say that ;)
        
               | jjcon wrote:
               | Taking a stats class does not a data scientist make.
               | COVID statistics can be very very difficult to interpret,
               | especially at the beginning when data was scarce.
               | 
               | Edit to add example : For instance, most people agree it
               | is best to exclude totally random testing sites from
               | COVID numbers because even though the false positive rate
               | is very low, at the beginning so was the incidence of
               | COVID which means most of the positive tests would be
               | false positive.
               | 
               | Including them or improperly dealing with that data would
               | be considered base rate fallacy
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy
               | 
               | This is just one statistical phenomenon that has to be
               | dealt with. It's complicated and sometimes messy but it
               | absolutely requires top minds
        
               | nix23 wrote:
               | Are you even capable of reading? No wonder you need a
               | specialist to "decipher" simple data as covid-cases/day.
               | 
               | EDIT: Why are you changing your comment to that extend.
               | That's not honest anymore. Bye
        
           | beervirus wrote:
           | Having degrees in irrelevant fields is... irrelevant.
        
             | tedd4u wrote:
             | A rabid credential-ist might point out Isaac Newton never
             | got a Physics degree.
             | 
             | Credentialism: belief in or reliance on academic or other
             | formal qualifications as the best measure of a person's
             | intelligence or ability to do a particular job
        
               | beervirus wrote:
               | I'm not complaining that she lacks credentials. Someone
               | else brought up _irrelevant credentials_ to try to
               | bolster her image. I'm complaining about that.
        
               | nix23 wrote:
               | You mean that irrelevant point:
               | 
               | >making your Doctor with emphasis on data science, has
               | nothing todo with understanding simple data like covid-
               | cases right?
        
             | DaniloDias wrote:
             | Since appeal to authority is the only hotness nowadays, you
             | can anticipate 2bn downvotes.
        
             | nix23 wrote:
             | Ahh that's why mathematicians have no clue of Astrophysics
             | and vice versa?
             | 
             | And making your Doctor with emphasis on data science, has
             | nothing todo with understanding simple data like covid-
             | cases right?
             | 
             | BTW Earth science has probably more todo with data than
             | anything else.
        
               | prepend wrote:
               | It's not that mathematicians have no clue of
               | astrophysics, but that they aren't working in that area
               | and understanding the field enough to contravene
               | decisions made by astrophysicists.
               | 
               | There's a rationale around what is, and is not, included
               | in case definitions and included in dashboards. It's
               | likely that these decisions are made by epidemiologists
               | with not only specific training, but also access to much
               | more data than the person who builds the dashboards.
               | 
               | Making a decision to include data in a visualization
               | without understanding why is not a good idea because it's
               | common that people think they know what numbers mean, but
               | only because they have limited visibility.
               | 
               | Having a degree in data science doesn't mean that I'm a
               | data scientist. If I'm hired in a web dev role, then I
               | hope my input is received well and considered by
               | epidemiologists in charge. And I hope they'd be able to
               | spend time explaining the rationale behind their
               | decisions.
               | 
               | This seems like a similar analogy where the build
               | engineer decides to change the git repo because they know
               | better than the dev team. Then someone reading the
               | article says "well they have a PhD in computer science so
               | they should know what they're doing, it's simple."
        
           | fdschoeneman wrote:
           | I don't think the degrees you've cited necessarily make one a
           | data scientist. I think doing data scientist work makes you a
           | data scientist. So it may well be best to consider her a data
           | scientist based on her current work or even if it is more of
           | a hobby, even if your degree argument isn't the one I'd use.
           | 
           | Nevertheless, Ms. Jones was paid as a web developer by the
           | state, not as a data scientist, and if she was publishing
           | data she thought was important at the expense of data the
           | state's paid data-scientists thought were important, she had
           | to be fired.
           | 
           | What if Ms. Jones was taking advantage of her position as a
           | web developer and publishing her work as a hobbyist data
           | scientist that showed masks are ineffective at the expense of
           | the data science work of official state data scientists who
           | were saying they are likely to be helpful? I'd still consider
           | her a data scientist, I just would want the state to be able
           | to fire her.
        
             | nix23 wrote:
             | >I think doing data scientist work makes you a data
             | scientist
             | 
             | Then we just hope you Surgeon is not like that, and has at
             | least a degree in Medicine.
        
               | fdschoeneman wrote:
               | I get what you're saying, but is a hospital likely to
               | employ a surgeon without a degree in medicine?
        
               | nix23 wrote:
               | Well in Pakistan the do that with Pilots without a
               | license ;) But beeing Cern your Data Scientist is
               | probably a Particle-physicist or a Scientific-Programmer,
               | and so on...
        
         | seebetter wrote:
         | I have a friend who works in intelligence who said Fauci was
         | corrupt and callous in April. In regards to all the
         | profiteering in testing.
         | 
         | Love how our society has become so welcoming of "CIA officers"
         | on CNN and the media just merged with the political corrupt
         | aspect of the IC. Neoliberal rackets.
        
           | gameswithgo wrote:
           | I have a friend who says your post is incoherent and crazy
        
         | nosmokewhereiam wrote:
         | The web developer part is character assassination at its
         | finest. "Just a web developer...what could she know"
        
           | neffy wrote:
           | I suspect the key word there is "she".
        
           | kordlessagain wrote:
           | JavaScript, for one thing.
        
             | xwdv wrote:
             | Not a good start.
        
           | fdschoeneman wrote:
           | No it isn't. She was paid as a web developer by the state.
           | Simultaneously, the state has actual data scientists it was
           | paying to look at this data and provide analysis.
           | 
           | I'm open to the idea she was and is a data scientist,
           | nevertheless the state was not paying her for that. It was
           | paying her to publish on official state website(s) data and
           | analysis provided by the state's official, paid data
           | scientists.
        
       | spodek wrote:
       | DeSantis couldn't do a better job of turning her into a hero and
       | himself into a villain.
       | 
       | What do you think will come next? I see her winning a lawsuit
       | against him or some part of the state.
        
         | cascom wrote:
         | The cynic in me sees her defending herself from criminal
         | charges for the next several years, then being unsuccessful in
         | a civil suit due to no smoking gun of malicious prosecution for
         | a few years after that, and ultimately no one will remember or
         | care, and DeSantis will be out of work or on to another job,
         | but he's effectively solved this problem.
        
       | bitcurious wrote:
       | There's a lot of talk in this thread of whether Jones is a data
       | scientist or not, but that talk is missing something crucial - it
       | doesn't take a data scientist to assemble basic reports about
       | infection rates and mortality. Little to none of what
       | differentiates "data scientist" from "data analyst" or
       | "statistician" is involved in these reports. There is no massive
       | data, no black-box modeling, really no new statistics at all -
       | this stuff is well defined, except for the data itself.
       | 
       | The main choice points are around specific decisions with regards
       | to how interpret messy data. Those decisions require domain
       | expertise and a deep familiarity with how various public agencies
       | in Florida work. Perhaps Jones has that expertise, perhaps she
       | doesn't. A title of "data scientists" doesn't change that.
        
         | temp8964 wrote:
         | Right now, she is apparently an activist. There is nothing
         | wrong with being an activist. However, IMHO, being a "data
         | scientist" is inherently incompatible with being an activist.
         | No matter how qualified you were, once you became a passionate
         | activist, you are no longer a "data scientist" or a "data
         | analyst" or a "statistician" on the topic. Again, there is
         | nothing wrong with being an activist, but you can't be both. I
         | feel this is so obvious that requires no further explanation,
         | but I might get massive downvotes for saying this.
        
           | tomnipotent wrote:
           | > being a "data scientist" is inherently incompatible with
           | being an activist
           | 
           | This is just silly. So if a medical doctor becomes an
           | activist on diabetes, they're no longer a medical doctor?
        
             | temp8964 wrote:
             | when did I mention "medical doctor"?
        
               | tomnipotent wrote:
               | Based on your logic of "if X can no longer be Y". Or are
               | only statisticians/analysts somehow effected by this?
        
               | temp8964 wrote:
               | wow.
        
           | ZoomerCretin wrote:
           | Feeling that something requires no explanation is a
           | rationalization for not having any explanation.
        
           | dr_dshiv wrote:
           | I'm an activist about childhood poverty and education. This
           | makes its way into my data science work because I pursue
           | projects and analyses that allow me to understand how poverty
           | affects education progress. I often explicitly state my
           | biases, because I am sure my interpretation of data is
           | colored by my pre-existing beliefs. Yet, I often discover
           | analyses that I wouldn't otherwise have considered due to my
           | beliefs -- and I have integrity -- I continually update my
           | beliefs based on data. So, on one hand I agree that being an
           | activist can bias one's interpretation of data, but I also
           | think that the biases can be essential for generating useful
           | hypotheses to guide analysis.
        
         | ineedasername wrote:
         | Excellent point. And important to remember that her claims
         | really circle around interpretation.
         | 
         | Measuring her claims really requires knowledges of how the
         | state made its interpretation. If those interpretations don't
         | correspond to how most other data outside of Florida is
         | counted, then there is a problem.
         | 
         | This is why data transparency is so important: Accurately
         | understanding regional and nation trends can help inform where
         | resources are dedicated and how the virus spreads.
        
       | ykevinator wrote:
       | I really hate "data scientist" it elevates glorified excel users
       | to the level of physicists
        
       | ashwal wrote:
       | What a weird story that keeps getting weirder.
       | 
       | I am a data scientist who spent June in Tallahassee helping
       | coordinate state-wide COVID testing with FDEM (Florida Department
       | of Emergency Management) and state health officials.
       | 
       | Everyone I worked with was pretty dedicated to getting the roll
       | out right (including the governor and his appointees too..)
       | 
       | My data & work was spread far and wide with no issue - but just a
       | personal anecdote
        
         | jkhdigital wrote:
         | Agreed--as a Florida resident, I have heard a variety of
         | highly-charged opinions on this story from many of my fellow
         | residents, but very few hard facts to confirm or deny any
         | particular narrative.
         | 
         | I think the raid on Ms. Jones home was a grotesque and
         | unwarranted use of police force, but I also think her "whistle-
         | blowing" story is highly questionable based on the facts
         | available.
        
           | fdschoeneman wrote:
           | I don't know what the raid on Ms. Jones house was about and
           | am going to reserve judgment until I do. There's just so much
           | weirdness. She calls herself a data scientist, which she may
           | well consider herself to be, but the state appears to have
           | hired her as a website developer, and fired her as a website
           | developer, because she refused to put out data in her
           | capacity as a web developer that the state's paid, official
           | data scientists were giving her.
           | 
           | I guess you could consider her a whistleblower. But it's
           | unclear the state did anything wrong other than a) insist
           | that the numbers from its data scientists be published on a
           | state website instead of Ms. Jones's and b) protect its
           | emergency communication system by investigating abuses of
           | same by what to me, at least, looks like a very likely
           | suspect.
        
             | MilnerRoute wrote:
             | According to the article in the Tampa Bay Times, Jones'
             | official title was:
             | 
             | Geographic information system manager for the Florida
             | Department of Health's Division of Disease Control and
             | Health Protection
        
           | xibalba wrote:
           | If you have few hard facts, how are you evaluating the
           | justification for raiding her home?
        
             | jkhdigital wrote:
             | The raid on her home is one event which is pretty well
             | documented, and I have little tolerance for militarized
             | police tactics in general.
        
             | mdoms wrote:
             | I'd suggest you have a look at how policing is done outside
             | of USA. A raid on someone's home is almost never justified
             | - it would take highly exceptional circumstances to make a
             | "normal" police force perform like that.
        
               | overscore wrote:
               | Raids are common in almost every European country - which
               | in general have "normal" police forces - where the police
               | believe someone might destroy evidence.
        
               | trasz wrote:
               | Only if the charges are heavy enough, and even then it
               | usually happens in civilized way, not like SWAT.
        
               | overscore wrote:
               | It happens in Ireland all the time for personal amounts
               | of drugs. They are generally unarmed raids unless it's a
               | gangland case, though.
        
               | syshum wrote:
               | >>It happens in Ireland
               | 
               | hmm
               | 
               | >>They are generally unarmed raids
               | 
               | So then does not happen all the time in Ireland
               | 
               | You should really look into how the US conducts "raids"
               | even when there is no "gangland" case involved.
               | 
               | They have one procedure for all raids, and it very
               | militaristic, they are always armed, and it is ALWAYS
               | excessive and violent.
               | 
               | What you are calling a "raid" in Ireland would not be
               | what we in the US called a Raid which is very specific
               | activity of police
        
               | overscore wrote:
               | Different threat models, but a raid is a raid.
               | 
               | Just like an arrest is an arrest, even though in the US
               | it will necessarily involve firearms and in Ireland, it
               | almost never will.
        
             | kasey_junk wrote:
             | It's fairly easy to reconcile the opinions "I'm not sure if
             | she has done something criminal" and "the police used
             | excessive and intentionally intimidating force when other
             | safer options were open to them".
        
             | spoonjim wrote:
             | In some countries, a surprise raid of your home means "we
             | think you have hostages in your basement" or something at
             | that level.
        
               | wl wrote:
               | You're going to see surprise raids in any country
               | whenever the police believe there's evidence to be found
               | that would be destroyed or tampered with if the suspect
               | had advance notice.
        
               | chillwaves wrote:
               | That doesn't explain them training guns on her when she
               | was clearly unarmed and not a threat.
               | 
               | Also didn't they wait something like 20 minutes before
               | breaching the residence?
        
         | ptero wrote:
         | It _is_ a weird story. I do not think she is being targeted for
         | speaking her mind or advocating a particular view of the COVID,
         | the charges almost certainly are for accessing the non-public
         | data she should not have accessed.
         | 
         | And some data _is_ sensitive. For example, if someone was
         | pulling private medical records and harassing or blackmailing
         | another person with that information it would, to me, justify
         | both the search and the potential arrest. It should not be the
         | statistics about COVID -- that data is usually available to the
         | public after some aggregation.
         | 
         | That said, the state response and the arrest warrant look very
         | strange in this case; so strange that it smells of a personal
         | vendetta (e.g., find a potential HIPAA violation and throw a
         | book at her). I hope the state will clearly identify what the
         | heck she is accused of accessing and why it is so damaging that
         | the state resorted to its recent actions. My 2c.
        
           | greenyoda wrote:
           | > For example, if someone was pulling private medical records
           | and harassing or blackmailing another person
           | 
           | I think it's highly unlikely that a state data analyst would
           | have access to any private medical records. The Covid stats
           | would have probably already been aggregated by the hospitals
           | before they were sent to the state.
           | 
           | > find a potential HIPAA violation and throw a book at her
           | 
           | HIPAA is a federal law, so a violation of it wouldn't be
           | prosecuted by the state of Florida.
        
         | plussed_reader wrote:
         | Your chosen terminology is a little strange to me(weird); would
         | you by chance be an American?
         | 
         | This is a textbook example of the Government(State of Florida)
         | targeting an individual for their speech.
         | 
         | But then again, Do-Nothing DeSantis is the successor to Senator
         | Red Tide Rick. Par for the course with Florida, sadly.
        
           | joering2 wrote:
           | +1. Also for that raid alone where public saw SWAT team
           | members putting machine guns in her children faces, she most
           | likely will settle and get $10MM+ settlement in less than 10
           | years. Of course our taxpayers money. DegenerateSantis will
           | be then on his next high paid gig. Watch and see.
        
             | yanderekko wrote:
             | >Also for that raid alone where public saw SWAT team
             | members putting machine guns in her children faces
             | 
             | Uhh what? The only video I've seen has an officer walking
             | around with a handgun drawn and pointing it as he moves
             | around her house, and at one point he aims it upstairs
             | where her kids are.
             | 
             | How does this get telephone-gamed into "SWAT team members
             | putting machine guns in her children faces"?? Is there some
             | other video I haven't seen?
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | From the gofundme:
       | 
       | " Lawyer's fees, private investigators, an armed security guard
       | for my home since the police published my home address and
       | contact information online, moving expenses so my family can get
       | out of the Governor's reach, and any costs associated with this
       | fight that I may not be anticipating. My family and I will need
       | to move and get set up in a new place."
       | 
       | Holy hell it's like she pulled a Snowden or something. All she
       | did was be good at her job and tell the truth. Just another
       | reason for me to never live in Florida.
        
         | gigatexal wrote:
         | Ok there might be more to this case than I had originally read.
         | I didn't know of the other parts as mentioned below :/
        
         | qwerty12345678 wrote:
         | Please provide references that she was in fact "telling the
         | truth".
        
         | orangecat wrote:
         | _All she did was be good at her job and tell the truth._
         | 
         | What "truth" do you think she was exposing? The original
         | dispute that caused her to leave her job was a boring technical
         | dispute about whether to automatically publish data from PDFs
         | or to have it reviewed for accuracy first:
         | https://polimath.substack.com/p/a-long-one-about-the-
         | florida.... Despite insinuations from various irresponsible
         | media figures, there is zero evidence that Florida is
         | falsifying data.
        
           | onionisafruit wrote:
           | Is this case all they have when they accuse Florida of
           | falsifying covid data? I assumed there was more but never
           | looked into it.
        
             | treis wrote:
             | There was also some controversy of counting those that died
             | in Florida but were not residents of Florida. A marginal
             | difference, but not anything that big.
        
             | pX3q54Q55945w7E wrote:
             | Her "data" that she publishes on her website was always
             | within 5% of what my Florida county publishes, and within
             | the same margin of what I see on NYT or any other website.
             | I say it's close enough, so she didn't expose diddly squat.
             | What she did do is access a state computer system without
             | authorization. That's a crime, and her guilt or innocence
             | will play out in court... like with other crimes.
             | 
             | There's no story here, except about a hysterical,
             | attention-seeking woman who poked the wrong bear. Good luck
             | to her. If nothing else, I hope she learns a lesson.
        
               | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
               | I always laugh at people who press issues like this. It's
               | as if they never prodded authority in high school. In
               | high school, typically the worst case scenario is you get
               | detention or suspension. In the real world, you get sued
               | or go to jail.
               | 
               | It makes me glad I did bureaucratic rebellion then. I
               | learned quickly that the powers that be will never
               | concede to you, people quickly disperse or disown you the
               | moment you need help fighting something, and ideals are
               | worthless things fighting for short of endless mass mobs
               | demanding it.
        
             | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
             | She had some procedural complaints as well, but she's since
             | started publishing her own "defudged" data tracker at
             | floridacovidaction.com, and as far as I've heard it's never
             | reported any huge difference from the state's numbers.
        
       | ocschwar wrote:
       | The previous allegation against her was something that would make
       | her the hero even if she was guilty. It was a charge of "making
       | good trouble", albeit one that would put her away for a long time
       | under the CFAA.
        
       | temptemptemp111 wrote:
       | She probably made unrelated mistakes they can get her on... This
       | is just to set an example to not go against the narrative.
        
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