[HN Gopher] A Nepali team has made the first winter ascent of K2
___________________________________________________________________
A Nepali team has made the first winter ascent of K2
Author : eigenvector
Score : 298 points
Date : 2021-01-16 18:29 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.alpinist.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.alpinist.com)
| tangue wrote:
| For those wondering how hard it is : More people have traveled to
| space than have summited K2 in summer [1].
|
| [1]
| https://www.mountainfilm.org/media/breathtaking-k2-%E2%80%93...
| sh87 wrote:
| counting people who have tried and _failed_ to summit K2 vs
| space travel is (to me) a better quantification.
| x3iv130f wrote:
| 23-29% of the climbers who try K2 die in the attempt.
|
| It is at the very least an order of magnitude more dangerous
| than space flight.
| whereistimbo wrote:
| The real russian roulette...
| Syzygies wrote:
| This "Fatality Rate" compares successful summits and
| returns to those who die trying. Worded this way, it's a
| tricky number to pin down. You could be with a group that
| never planned to choose you as part of the smaller summit
| party, and still die on the mountain. But it's far from
| true that a quarter of people who visit the mountain die.
| actuator wrote:
| Just to add, Annapurna is the deadliest 8000er. With
| Kanchenjunga, K2 in second depending on where you get stats
| from.
| saberience wrote:
| I always thought Nanga Parbat was more deadly than
| Kanchenjunga.
| Xenoamorphous wrote:
| Just today we got the news here in Spain that a spanish alpinist,
| Sergi Mingote, died while descending from K2. There were multiple
| teams attempting this, then?
| remus wrote:
| I believe so. As I understand it (this is all third hand so
| take it with a pinch of salt) there are other teams who are
| waiting for another weather window to make an attempt.
| snowwrestler wrote:
| There were several teams, and it's my understanding that some
| of them had paying clients, which is pretty controversial. I
| saw a bunch of social media posts that were veiled complaints
| about bringing paid clients into a such a serious situation.
|
| With the possible exception of the other teams on the mountain,
| I think all the big mountain climbers are psyched that it was
| the Sherpas to do it.
| schwax wrote:
| https://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2021/01/16/winter-k2-update...
|
| > There are around 20 climbers aspiring to summit, and claim a
| winter K2 summit. Some have acclimatized to Camp 3 but most
| have only reached Camp 1. Some will end their effort based on
| today's first summit, and citing rockfall danger, others will
| still retain their motivation. We'll see what the final K2
| winter 2020/21 total is in a few weeks.
| sebmellen wrote:
| I've always wondered why we don't see sherpas holding all the
| climbing records, given how much better adapted they are to their
| environments than most other mountaineers. Maybe this is the
| beginning of a new trend! The sentiment is at least echoed in the
| article:
|
| > _In the 2015 newswire, Green quoted Dawa Gyalje Sherpa: "We are
| hoping as young climbers, to take climbing in Nepal to a new
| level. All of us have climbed much bigger mountains but always
| with foreign climbers. We want to show that we are not just
| porters on the mountain, climbing only for our livelihood, but we
| are interested in climbing because we enjoy it, too.... We are
| the young generation of Sherpa climbers but we are looking to the
| future of Nepal and Sherpas also."_
| AniseAbyss wrote:
| Voluntarily climbing the top of a mountain is like a hobby rich
| people do. Later it became a matter of nationalism. A climbing
| expedition takes a ton of money.
| nix23 wrote:
| BS. Climbing was first done by crazy Mountain Kids, then the
| big state sponsored expeditions started (a first that was the
| north and south-pole), GB missed both and shifted to the
| biggest mountain with GB "Won" the race, hence the name of
| Everest as the "third pole".
|
| A modern (new age) expedition looks more like that (no
| Sherpas no help from others who don't climb):
|
| http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP10/climbing-note-siegrist
|
| Thalay Sagar with Stephan Siegrist and Rob Frost
| iamaaditya wrote:
| I believe there is some form of memory bias or bias in
| reporting by the media. If you look at the record books, you
| will find that most records are held by Sherpas. For example,
| more than 70 records for Mount Everest is held my Sherpas (or
| other Nepalese climbers) [1], far more than climbers from any
| other country.
|
| Apa Sherpa, one of the most prolific Sherpas, holds many
| records [2]. Interesting fact he was Sherpa to Peter Hillary
| (Edmund's son).
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mount_Everest_records
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apa_Sherpa
| PopeDotNinja wrote:
| It's been said that history is written by the winners. I guess
| you could also say history is written by the people who pay for
| it.
| krallistic wrote:
| Its nice to see Nepal with this first winter books finally in
| the history books. They done so much for mountaineering.
| sonalr wrote:
| Somewhat related, highly recommend this documentary. It really
| shows the untold story of how hard of a life it is for a porter
| in the Everest region of Nepal. This is such a great story, and
| very well done by Nathaniel Menninger.
| https://youtu.be/MxAU4wWG2Hs
| intrepidhero wrote:
| Sherpas were on all the big western expeditions that I know of.
| Their names are just usually dropped when talking about it,
| which is a shame. I recently read Krakauer's Into Thin Air and
| appreciated that he treated the sherpas on the expedition as
| fellow humans. They figured as important as anyone else in the
| story. He was also careful when talking about past climbs to
| mention all the climbers, sherpa and otherwise.
|
| Very interesting book for me. I knew (know?) very little about
| mountaineering.
| sebmellen wrote:
| That's very nice to hear, and I'll check the book out.
|
| While on a cruise ship last July (well, 2019) I made friends
| with a Nepalese security screw and we talked about Nepal and
| their family occupations. It's very sad to hear of how
| disposably sherpas are treated on the vanity tours by
| unskilled foreign climbers. Basically the sherpas end up
| dragging along their clients and they face outsized risk on
| the way.
| strstr wrote:
| For a long time, both Tenzing Norgay and Edmund Hillary
| evaded the question of who summitted Everest first. They
| reached the top as a team.
|
| Most of the "forgetting" seems to happen when it comes to
| communicating about larger, less notable expeditions.
| sharadov wrote:
| Hillary did a lot for the Sherpa community, and he
| rightfully gave Tenzing the acknowledgement that he
| deserved, one of the first western mountaineers to do so.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| If you go to Everest region in Nepal, there are schools
| and even airport built by him just above Namche Bazaar...
| truly great contribution back. He literally spent decades
| of his later life trying to develop mainly Sherpa
| communities which lived in brutal poverty, largely left
| on their own by central government. Let's not forget
| Nepal was and still is one of the poorest countries in
| the world. Very few benefit from tourism, and money
| Sherpa earn is brutal compared to rest of non-
| mountaineering population.
|
| Basically you either join Gurkha and fight for British,
| go for mountaineering career, become a corrupt government
| official (which you can't just join due to nepotism) or
| try to leave if you have money for it.
|
| This 'critique' goes both ways and kind of show its
| natural to humans - when both Tenzing and Hillary came
| back to India from Nepal (Nepal didn't have an
| international airport back then, and it took quite a bit
| of time to built one, all expeditions went through
| India's sea ports) - Hillary was almost completely
| ignored, and Tenzing was the only one to be celebrated.
|
| I understand the motivations ie due to past shameful
| english colonialism, plus good old nationalism. But its
| like that everywhere. It doesn't make it any more
| acceptable these days obviously.
| DeBraid wrote:
| To emphasize your point, I'm well familiar w/ Sir Edmund,
| but TIL about Tenzing Norgay, thank you.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenzing_Norgay
| Tarsul wrote:
| funny thing is that the first "who wants to be a
| millionaire" winner in Germany had him as million
| [Deutsche Mark] question ("who climbed the mount everest
| with Edmund Hillary" or something like that). And that's
| why his name has always stuck in my head. However, it
| also goes to show that he is less famous than Hillary.
| EdwardDiego wrote:
| In New Zealand, despite our somewhat child-like at times
| desire to be known on the world stage, we all largely
| know and acknowledge about Tenzing Norgay as well as
| Hillary - which is exactly what Sir Ed wanted.
| dbmikus wrote:
| They only have a photo of Norgay at the summit because
| Norgay didn't know how to take a picture of Hillary.
|
| Kind of ironic to me that the less famous one is the only
| one with the photo! Ha!
| mthoms wrote:
| Source? As I recall, Edmund stated he just didn't think
| of it in the heat (actually: cold) of the moment. They
| were only on the summit for a few minutes.
|
| I'd be very surprised if a man of Tenzing's calibre and
| achievements could not figure out something so trivial.
|
| Edit: I've found some citations that support your point,
| I apologize.
|
| Although, I'd add (a) Tenzing's account states that he
| offered to take a photo but was declined. And (b) a more
| fair description would be " _because he had never used a
| camera before_ " rather than " _didn 't know how to work
| a camera_".
|
| The later suggesting a lack of intelligence or civility
| (though I'm sure that wasn't your intent), I'm probably
| just nitpicking :-).
| Someone wrote:
| Larger? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_British_Mount_Ev
| erest_exp...:
|
| _"The mountaineers were accompanied [...] by 362 porters,
| so that the expedition in the end amounted to over four
| hundred men, including twenty Sherpa guides from Tibet and
| Nepal, with a total weight of ten thousand pounds of
| baggage"_
|
| I don't know the details of that expedition, but typically,
| the sherpas make multiple trips up and down the mountain to
| bring the necessary material up to height, so that those
| paying can relatively comfortably acclimatize at height.
| Climbing Everest almost always is a team effort.
|
| Even if you ignore those porters , those _"twenty Sherpa
| guides from Tibet and Nepal"_ , IMO, deserve to be
| mentioned there more than Jan Morris, who didn't make it
| further up the mountain than 22,000 feet
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Morris).
|
| (and aside: ten thousand pounds of baggage seems very low
| to me. That's less than 30 pounds per porter = I guess
| that's what made it to the highest camp)
| HotHotLava wrote:
| While the Sherpa were crucial to success of the
| expedition, it's also important not to jump to the other
| extreme and underestimate the contributions of the
| British party. This was not a "guided" expedition where
| the clients were just going up in the wind shadow. Back
| in 1953, it's pretty unlikely that sherpa party could
| have summitted on their own.
|
| If I remember correctly (it's a while since I read
| Hillary's account of the expedition), only three of the
| sherpa were able to go up to camp 4, and two of those
| them had to turn back due to altitude sickness. Tenzing
| Norgay did not have the technical knowledge to operate
| the oxygen systems. Also, crampons were far less advanced
| back then, so the mountaineers were also responsible for
| cutting steps every few days for all the routes that the
| porters were using to haul gear.
| tweetle_beetle wrote:
| I'd say that the days of Sherpas being completely invisible
| have passed. There is now something of a noble savage
| mystique around them, unhelpful in its own way. You get
| brownie points for virtue signalling about your gratitude to
| Sherpas today. They often get to keep gear that their clients
| no longer need after their trip, for example. Hopefully their
| status continues to rise.
|
| What is somewhat sadder is the fate of the porters on which
| almost every expedition and trek, except the purest of pure
| self-supported alpine expeditions, still relies. These are
| poor people who are typically from the lowlands, acting as
| sole breadwinners for their families, doing difficult,
| dangerous manual labor at high altitude without beneficial
| genetic adaptations or decent clothing. There are some good
| small charities trying to improve their conditions, for
| example https://www.canepal.org.uk/
| furyg3 wrote:
| > except the purest of pure self-supported alpine
| expeditions
|
| Do these exist? From what I understand Sherpas are the ones
| building the routes every year... So even if you hike
| alone, pack all of your stuff into base camp alone (good
| luck! many trips), carry all your own ladders and ropes,
| and pack all of your stuff up to each subsequent camp
| alone... you're still hiking on routes that Sherpas built
| at the beginning of the season...
| tweetle_beetle wrote:
| The use of Sherpas to open routes is restricted to a
| relatively small number of the most popular and lucrative
| routes, usually in Nepal. Most "proper" climbers look
| down on any notion of routes bring prepared - fixed
| equipment, ladders, etc.
|
| There are a good number of expeditions of a higher
| standard of mountain ethics which still happen and still
| many new routes to claim in the Himalayas. But these are
| far removed from the world of the stereotype of the type
| of person who wants to climb Everest who get all the
| media attention - look up Nick Cienski for a good example
| of virtue signalling, ego and narcism.
|
| If you're interested, The Alpine Journal is an excellent
| resource for capturing all the lesser known alpinists
| doing amazing things with little to no media attention
| and a tiny budget. Among the low key mountaineers the is
| even a bit of a culture of not reporting first ascents,
| due to the bureaucratic nature of permits - allowed to
| climb one peak, but not one next door. Those in the know,
| who are looking for a more pure climbing experience,
| prefer India and Pakistan where permits are easier to
| obtain, there are virtually no climbers and hundreds of
| new routes to do in unspoilt valleys.
| bitL wrote:
| And yet Krakauer had no issues throwing a guy, who tried to
| save some of the members of his team, under the bus when
| Krakauer messed up, and turned a hero into a villain.
| ceocoder wrote:
| Jon Krakauer has responded to Anatoli Boukreev here[0], it
| seems as like most things in life, there is more nuance
| this than just hero villain dichotomy.
|
| [0] https://medium.com/galleys/a-postscript-to-into-thin-
| air-e23...
| bitL wrote:
| That Kazakh person can't defend himself any longer and
| Krakauer's story is highly suspicious due to glaring
| holes/omissions - perfect knowledge of the incoming storm
| yet deciding to move forward, "hallucinated all the way
| down" as a defense for not helping Beck Weathers,
| sleeping in a tent while Anatoli was saving clients,
| expecting from the barely surviving Kazakh climber a
| perfect knowledge of English etc. Krakauer is a talented
| writer writing compelling stories but his throwing mud on
| a deceased climber who managed to save all his clients in
| the death zone that night is just disgusting.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| This. He writes good, but its kind of accepted in
| climbing community that he really messed up with Everest
| disaster, lied, tried to blame others for his own fails
| etc.
| arcticfox wrote:
| Source? Because his response to _The Climb_ , linked
| above, seems pretty damning.
|
| Edit: found a source to balance,
| https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB864852385619851000
| ignoramous wrote:
| For K2, it is usually the Pakistani porters from Gilgit-
| Baltistan: https://www.wionews.com/south-asia/pakistani-
| porters-the-uns...
|
| > _Their names are just usually dropped when talking about
| it, which is a shame._
|
| Reminds me of Amir Mehdi's story:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amir_Mehdi#K2_(1954)
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Very few locals historically went above base camp, it used
| to be really tricky to even get them to deliver goods to
| base camp. They were afraid, always broke previously agreed
| contract, tried to negotiating extra money. Plus had
| ridiculously bad clothing/shoes for such an environment.
|
| Basically every expedition in Pakistan in the past
| struggled with this, and they even had an additional budget
| for this.
| jariel wrote:
| They may be culturally and physically acclimatized to mountains
| in every way, but not likely to the notion of
| 'mountaineering/climbing' in the romantic sense.
|
| After all it serves no purpose, requires development of new
| tech, money etc..
|
| I don't think anyone doubts they couldn't have done it long ago
| were some local ruler to have made it a priority.
|
| I wonder if they thought the original European 'explorers' to
| be completely mad.
|
| So that leaves the question: the mountains were 'right there'
| and they had innate ability, so why didn't they 'just do it',
| and have the routes all mapped out for centuries already? Is I
| think the rhetorical question that unpacks a lot of things.
| sebmellen wrote:
| That is an interesting question. I think the most obvious
| answer is that exploration is predicated on a certain level
| of technological advancement, below which it is completely
| unreasonable. If you don't have a food surplus and some
| academic establishment and governance and trade routes,
| exploration is an unreasonable vanity project. _Guns, Germs,
| and Steel_ grazes this topic.
|
| As Nepal develops further, I expect to see more of these
| sorts of headlines.
| beerandt wrote:
| Let's not dismiss nation-state exploration with having an
| overly indulgent hobby.
|
| Establishing and mapping boundaries, demonstrating military
| abilities, and even finding/protecting the trade routes you
| speak of, all required exploration on a large scale.
|
| Not to mention things like establishing trade and a
| friendly presence with locals, establishing surveillance
| posts, and my personal favorite, surveying the geoid, as a
| means to better ICBM guidance.
|
| Military always makes reason, and I suspect that might also
| be at play in Nepal.
| thisrod wrote:
| I suspect that, before the industrial revolution, everyday
| life was adventurous enough. Climbing didn't take off until
| the 19th Century, when the romantic movement was reacting
| against the safety and boredom of modern life, at least for
| elites. Life in Nepal might have problems, but I doubt that
| boredom due to excessive safety is one of them.
|
| I've been meaning to read that history for a long time, but
| never gotten around to it:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Killing-Dragons-Conquest-Fergus-
| Flemi...
| ip26 wrote:
| Climbing started as part of territory disputes and non-
| military shows of national bravado. There's been a
| repeated surge after wars wrap up- perhaps a stand-in
| trial for young men to prove themselves after the trial
| of combat ends.
|
| Many bold & great climbers of history were young men of
| no fame from poor countries. There weren't that many
| wealthy dukes just looking for a way to pass the time.
| thisrod wrote:
| > There's been a repeated surge after wars wrap up
|
| What are you referring to? The Second World War seems
| like the obvious case. I think there were two things at
| play there. European climbers returned to the Himalayas,
| and resumed where they left off in 1939; perhaps the war
| delayed the ascent of Everest instead of causing it.
| Also, nylon! Ropes that don't break--and that don't break
| falling lead climbers--were a huge enabling technology
| for rock climbing.
| jariel wrote:
| The Indian subcontinent was very wealthy on the whole, and
| also extremely unequal, there are innumerable testaments to
| that. See: Taj Mahal etc.
|
| Very poor on a 'per-capita' basis but with unlimited
| labour.
|
| That said, slave labour doesn't necessarily advance
| technology.
| spanktheuser wrote:
| It's also predicated on the existence of an economy which
| provides ample leisure for some while others labor
| ceaselessly at the edges of poverty. There's a reason the
| Indian sub-continent lacked a food surplus, academic
| establishments, strong governance etc. Great Britain looted
| an estimated $45 billion from its Indian colonies during
| the 173 years of its rule.
| snowwrestler wrote:
| It takes a lot of disposable income to be a serious climber.
| Top Western climbers are either well-off or funded by the well-
| off (patrons, companies, or even governments sometimes).
|
| This funding has historically not been available directly to
| Sherpas. That is partially because they did not have platforms
| to influence the purchasing decisions of a large audience (the
| main reason companies fund full-time climbers). And it's
| partially because Western cultures tended not to value
| indigenous people the same way it valued their own citizens.
|
| Both of those have been changing a lot in the past decade, and
| it's nice to see younger Sherpas able to take advantage of
| that.
| pcthrowaway wrote:
| > It takes a lot of disposable income to be a serious
| climber.
|
| If you're not specifically talking about high-altitude
| climbing, then I'd argue this is wrong. There are famous
| *serious* climbers like Fred Beckey who managed to make
| climbing their entire lives on next to no income. Lots of
| serious climbers build up their rack from "booty" (taking
| material abandoned by other climbers in a range of
| situations, often bordering on questionably unethical), live
| in a van or a tent, hitchhike, etc.
| franzb wrote:
| The climbing permit for Everest alone costs $11000.
| pcthrowaway wrote:
| Again, _if you 're not specifically talking about high-
| altitude climbing_. High-altitude climbing is barely even
| the same discipline as what 99% of climbers do.
| alisausaaa wrote:
| Wanna have hot-lovin' conversations? You're on the right way! -
| https://adultlove.life
| alisause wrote:
| I was a really bad girl. Punish me with your dick in my mouth. -
| https://adultlove.life
| mac_was wrote:
| Worth noting that the team used oxygen, which wasn't the case in
| some other unsuccessful recent tries. It is a great achievement
| for them but it was known that you can do it accompanied by the
| help of oxygen or a team using it.
| [deleted]
| saiya-jin wrote:
| This. Using oxygen is regarded by all mountaineering
| professionals as 'bringing the mountain down to your level', no
| matter what season.
|
| So the ultimate goal - climbing it in the winter, without
| bottled oxygen, remains open to others. It has been achieved on
| all other peaks, but requires many things to come together
| including huge amount of luck (but that's valid for any 8000m
| peak).
|
| I would much rather see some elite, whatever the country, climb
| it in alpine style. The persons who achieve this can be
| rightfully titled kings of current high altitude
| mountaineering. Simone Moro, Nirmal Purja and few others have
| the potential.
| vijaykcm wrote:
| There was a post on it earlier:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25803599.
| PopeDotNinja wrote:
| I'm an American, and I visited Pakistan on a whim back in
| September. I was able to spend a few days in the north. I can
| only say the north of Pakistan is incredible. There's nothing
| that prepares you for seeing 8000+ meter mountains for the first
| time.
|
| There's no shortage of people offering tours, but I made my own
| plans. I rented a Toyota Hilux 4x4 for 4 days at $50/day, and
| they insisted I hire a driver because they didn't trust me to
| drive solo (which in retrospect was wise of them because of
| language barriers, road conditions, police/military checkpoints,
| etc.). The driver quoted me a rate of $3/day (not a typo). I
| drove from Islamabad to Hunza and back in 3 days (I could only
| get one day off work, lol). It was way too much driving, but the
| trip was still incredible.
|
| To make the trip extra fun, I had the worst case of food
| poisoning w/ diarrhea that I've ever had for the entire time. I
| developed that the night before I was scheduled to drive off. So
| in the morning I picked up some Imodium and baby wipes, and just
| stopped every hour or two. I somehow managed to avoid shitting in
| my pants, but I don't know how. Nearly every bathroom in
| Pakistan, which might just be a hole in the ground, has a
| handheld bidet, which is a power washer for your backside. No
| matter how messy it got, I also walked away from a pit stop with
| a fresh backside.
|
| Here's some pictures of the traveling, sans pit stops...
|
| https://photos.app.goo.gl/tZ3scbSFbPbxQCpG7
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Kind of a weird question, but, did the bidet avoid the feeling
| of "my asshole is literally on fire" that comes with diarrhea +
| wiping?
|
| The diarrhea is miserable, but the other part isn't great
| either. I've often wondered if a bidet solves that.
| PopeDotNinja wrote:
| My rear never felt raw. I used almost no TP during my entire
| trip to Pakistan. Basically I just took a targeted shower
| many times a day, and didn't need to rub my bum raw.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| I wonder if that feeling is due to stomach acid not being
| neutralized. Like you literally have hydrochloric acid eating
| away at your holey ghost.
|
| A bidet probably diluted it well enough.
| fakedang wrote:
| It's acid so yeah.
| jcims wrote:
| Not OP but in general but the answer is yes, and in the rare
| circumstances where it's not it's still way better. The only
| reason i haven't bought one for the house is that i can't
| commit to the $300 when i know what's out there for $1000.
| 2021 is a new budget year for discretionary purchases though,
| sooo.
| BeetleB wrote:
| Perhaps you're getting confused with French style
| bidets?[1]
|
| The one people are talking about in this thread are simple
| and much cheaper.[2]
|
| [1] https://www.google.com/search?q=French+bidet
|
| [2] https://www.amazon.com/Handheld-Toilet-Adjustable-
| Pressure-F...
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Purrfectzone-Sprayer-Toilet-Diaper-
| Br...
| howlgarnish wrote:
| $300? You can buy one off Aliexpress for under $5.
| simplemen wrote:
| Bought one off amazon for $25. Not the fanciest. Need to
| shut it off at valve after using it. It is not designed
| to be undwr pressure. But it has been working for 8
| years. Don't waste your money on $300 bidet, it is just a
| hose.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| I've had both a deluxe $500 washlet seat and a cheap $50
| model. They both get the job done but if it fits in the
| budget, the more pricy model is worth it for the water
| temperature control alone. Due to the mechanical nature
| of the item, this is one of the few things I'd buy an
| extended warranty on if available. The $500 model lasted
| about five years before it died, which I suspect was
| caused by several watermain issues rather than a
| manufacturing defect or misuse. Stepping down to the $50
| model was a bit of an adjustment and a minor quality of
| life reduction.
| howlgarnish wrote:
| Proper washlets are a different thing, the OP and I were
| referring to the basic bum guns which are not integrated
| with the seat:
|
| https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33060246812.html
| amingilani wrote:
| Pakistani living in Canada, here. I would hesitate before
| doing that, the cheap plastic ones might sprout a leak
| which isn't a problem in Pakistan because we design the
| bathrooms to be washed with of water buckets that goes
| down the drain in the corner easily. Find one at your
| local Home Depot. I found one for ~$80 CAD in Ontario but
| with a sturdier metal pipe and build.
| Talanes wrote:
| I don't understand why designing bathrooms to drain isn't
| a universal practice.
| sharadov wrote:
| Incredible pictures, as an Indian I've always wanted to visit
| Pakistan, but given the shared animosity between both nations,
| I'll probably never get a tourist visa.
| sumedh wrote:
| If you want a similar terrain then head over to Srinagar,
| kargil and Leh in Indian controlled Kashmir.
| PopeDotNinja wrote:
| Just go to the Waga gate, walk in backwards, and say you're
| leaving.
|
| On a more serious note, I was surprised to learn how little
| travel there is between two countries right next to each
| other.
| amingilani wrote:
| Ha, as a teenager I found out a movie was playing in Indian
| theaters a few km across the border so I began planning on
| getting a visa to hop across for a few hours. I may as well
| have declared I was walking over to NK as someone from SK
| :)
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Those areas are restricted for Indian nationals, like their
| side of Kashmir is for Pak nationals
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| How about Nepal?
| eqtn wrote:
| No visa required
| xerxesaa wrote:
| You can. I'm American/Pakistani (dual passport), with
| significant family who are in India (including my spouse and
| grandparents who are Indian citizens).
|
| I went with my wife to Pakistan last year. I have plenty of
| Indian family who visit Pakistan regularly. It can take 6
| months-ish to get a visa though and it is very annoying, so I
| would not blame you for not wanting to go through the
| process.
|
| By the way, as an American I can't visit India. I used to
| visit pre-2007, but since the Mumbai attacks (and further
| strict restrictions imposed in 2011 onwards) they no longer
| allow me to apply on my American passport and I've been
| rejected every time I try on a Pakistani passport.
|
| The animosity in that region is so unfortunate and I hope it
| ends in the future. I've seen countless families kept apart
| because of it.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| Woah thanks for sharing! I like the stairs leading to nowhere
| carved into the snow! These views remind me of my trip to Peru.
| Huge mountains all around and super nice people. The valleys
| between the mountains alone are already 8000ft + above sea
| level.
| achow wrote:
| That's a small glacier looks like.
|
| And more interesting for me was the drink cooler that is
| carved out of the glacier (at the bottom of the same steps).
| Genius!
|
| https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipMj_FbNF8VZduHZ5AaEDU9V.
| ..
| polishdude20 wrote:
| Yeah that's really neat!
| soared wrote:
| Barstool sports has a guy who does travel blogs and their trip
| looks very similar to yours. Something I definitely want to do.
|
| Any problems with passports, politics/etc?
| PopeDotNinja wrote:
| No problems at all.
| mraza007 wrote:
| I loved the pictures you took, i just can't wait to go to
| northern Pakistan
| cosmodisk wrote:
| The pictures are beautiful and humbling at the same time- the
| sheer scale of the surrounding terrain is quite something,
| especially to someone like me,who comes from a flat country.
| PopeDotNinja wrote:
| It's crazy to me to think that the USA has some gorgeous,
| tall mountains, and the mountains in Pakistan are twice the
| height!
| TCS_ wrote:
| That poor driver...
|
| +1 for those pictures! Incredible scenery
| PopeDotNinja wrote:
| I gave him a really nice tip :)
| gautamcgoel wrote:
| ...like, a week's wages? $21?
| PopeDotNinja wrote:
| Yup. $12 for 4 days, driving 8 to 14 hours per day. I had
| to cover his food and lodging, but we just shared a hotel
| room I was gonna rent anyway and food was cheap.
|
| For comparison , I talk to a Kareem driver who nets $10
| per day after expenses, and he drives 13 hours a day,
| seven days per week to support a family of 4. And my
| friend hired a part time for maybe 60 hours per month and
| she asked for $40/month.
| splike wrote:
| This looks like an incredible trip.
|
| Can I ask how did you safely organise a tour like that without
| getting scammed/putting yourself in danger? How did you get in
| contact with your driver?
| PopeDotNinja wrote:
| I googled "rental car Islamabad" and found a rents agency. I
| called them and worked out a deal to pay cash upfront with
| any special security deposit or insurance. They put me in
| touch with the driver. Basically I just went for it.
| asadlionpk wrote:
| There are many travel startups now which specialize in
| organizing these trips to north for foreigners. I can't think
| of a name but should be easily google-able.
|
| If you want to go cheaper, search for rent-a-car services in
| Islamabad.
|
| You probably wouldn't be scammed or put in danger either way.
| [deleted]
| latchkey wrote:
| Sounds like an epic adventure, right before everything went
| nuts!
|
| In SE Asia, we call it a "bum gun". Cannot live without it and
| you won't use TP ever again. Easy to order off Amazon.
| PopeDotNinja wrote:
| I call it an ass blaster XD
| ericjang wrote:
| Thank you for sharing the photos ! Some of the poses are pretty
| funny :)
| Agingcoder wrote:
| Fifteen years ago I spent three weeks in Pakistan (as part of a
| significantly longer trip) - entered from the Indian side not
| far from Amritsar, went to Lahore, spent some time in
| rawalpindi then off to the Hunza. I also got the nastiest bout
| of diarrhea I had ever had in my life, most likely caused my
| bad meat (I still remember the faulty kebab...).
|
| The locals where very friendly. When I was in the bus on the
| karakoram highway, we had a brief stop (bathroom break, food,
| etc). I was chatting with someone who was asking where I came
| from, when suddenly he snapped his fingers. A can of coke
| appeared on his hand, and he handed it to me, saying 'welcome
| to Pakistan!'.
|
| As to the landscape, I still remember it many years later.
|
| A truly extraordinary place.
| jrumbut wrote:
| Driving tours like that are an amazing way to travel. It takes
| away that feeling of needing to jam in as many things as
| possible and you can just live and take in the sights for a
| while.
| xeromal wrote:
| lol, sounds like you and I had similar experiences except I was
| in morocco. I rented a stickshift suv and they insisted I get
| automatic since I was american. lol. Drove several days pooping
| my brains out from the bad food all the way from marrakesh to
| chefchauen to tangiers. Great people and beautiful country
| though!
| r_singh wrote:
| Ooh how exciting.
|
| The north of Pakistan is where my grandparents come from.
| However, being an Indian I can't really visit the place
| easily....
| DeBraid wrote:
| Great story! Epic mic drop.
|
| > No matter how messy it got, I also walked away from a pit
| stop with a fresh backside. Here's some pictures...
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| We need to start living on Mars, if only to give climbers new
| mountains to climb.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountains_on_Mars_by_h...
| twic wrote:
| As i understand it, the trouble with the Martian "mountains" is
| that, while some are very tall, they are typically also very
| wide, so they are less like mountains as we think of them, and
| more like slightly pointy plateaus. Check out the diameters in
| this list:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountains_on_Mars
|
| I couldn't find a good visual comparison of Martian and
| Terrestrial mountains.
| na85 wrote:
| Olympus is so wide you can't see the summit from the base.
| Because the summit is past the horizon.
| mkl wrote:
| Part of the problem of comparison is the smaller diameter of
| Mars. Olympus Mons has such shallow slopes (~5deg) that from
| the top you can only see the slope of the mountain itself, as
| everything else is below the horizon.
| https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/25960/is-
| the-c...
|
| However, Olympus Mons has a very definite edge most of the
| way around, formed by escarpments up to 8km tall, that you'd
| have to get up before you get to the gentle slope.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_Mons
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| Between the distance and the lower gravity, sounds like it
| would be fun to mountain bike down, well, until reaching
| the 8km drop.
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| "Even though the surface gravity on Mars is only 3.7
| meters/sec (compared to 9.8 meters/sec on Earth), the
| thin atmosphere means that the average terminal velocity
| hits a nail-biting 1,000 km/hour or so, compared to about
| 200 km/hour back home."
|
| -for those wondering if 1/3 gravity could make the fall
| not as dangerous. ....although I suppose you might have
| more of time at the beginning to stop your descent by
| grabbing onto something maybe
| wbl wrote:
| Olympus Mons is an easy climb with life support because it
| isn't very steep.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| Olympus Mons is almost the size of France and is 21 km high.
| Gentle slope but still, quite a hike.
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| Interesting, but how Texas turned into France has to be the
| bigger story ;)
| yowlingcat wrote:
| Well, my friend, it all began with an innocuous
| rebranding of "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries" on balmy
| afternoon...
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| When I was young I had a picture of Olympus Mons
| superimposed on Texas. It's pretty big
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| that said. I'd put it on my cv.
| jamiek88 wrote:
| It is almost 8km up before you get to the gentle slope though
| so still a challenge even in 1/3 G
| vuciv1 wrote:
| Ah! Just a few days ago I wrote an article about what it
| would be like to climb on Mars! I learned about Olympus Mons
| in the process. It turns out that the surface area is equal
| to that of Italy's. There are a few interesting features like
| cliffs and craters, but you can probably just get around it.
|
| https://jerseyfonseca.com/blogs/climbingmars
| mhh__ wrote:
| Although Mars is probably the ultimate "because it's there",
| nature cannot be fooled - Everest has effectively been
| commercialised now, but the other 8kms like K2 regularly eat
| extremely experienced mountaineers for breakfast.
| NickNameNick wrote:
| I think it's going to be a while before we see
|
| "First ascent of Olympus Mons without supplemental oxygen"
| vuciv1 wrote:
| Ah! Just a few days ago I wrote an article about what it would
| be like to climb on Mars!
|
| https://jerseyfonseca.com/blogs/climbingmars
| soared wrote:
| You would likely enjoy the red Mars book series by Kim
| Stanley Robinson. One of the scientist kind of abandons her
| duties to just explore Mars in a rover!
| vuciv1 wrote:
| Just looked it up, seems awesome. I'm almost done with what
| I'm currently reading, so I will pick this up next. Do you
| have any other recommendations? I've been looking for more
| stuff like this (futurist, adventure, sci-fi, not cheesy),
| but just haven't been able to find the right one.
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| I definitely recommend the series. Excellent excellent
| series. Coincidentally, I was out tonight at a used book
| store and I found and bought a copy of Red Mars (Book 1)
| to replace my lost copy. Ha!
| soared wrote:
| Yeah it's great! New York 2142 by the same author was the
| first one I read and it was amazing. It's nyc post global
| warming where everything is flooded. Interesting setting
| and adventure/business drama stuff.
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| I've lived in the same small town as Mr. Robinson for
| over a decade, despite that he's a bit of a local
| celebrity, I've never ever run into him. I was sure I'd
| see him at the Delta of Venus cafe....it seemed so
| reminiscent of some of the communities in the series, I
| was sure that there was some inspiration coming from some
| of the local Davis oddities.
| pcthrowaway wrote:
| Spacesuits are aid
| Syzygies wrote:
| I met Charles Houston, leader of the first two American
| expeditions on K2. He approached me to have me explain the
| mathematics of card shuffling, and I traded an hour listening to
| him explain the medicine of altitude sickness (which helped me
| later on some modest climbs).
|
| He was on the wrong end of "The Belay" on the second climb, but
| survived.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Snead_Houston
| dredmorbius wrote:
| http://bwamm.blogspot.com/2007/12/famed-schoening-ice-axe.ht...
| Ayesh wrote:
| I follow @nimsdai on Instagram, he took the initiative for this.
| Very nice content if you like that sort of content.
|
| He (and I'm sure the others are too) are some real-life super
| humans!
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