[HN Gopher] Bonsai in an encapsulated environmental system: Palu...
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       Bonsai in an encapsulated environmental system: Paludarium
       Yasutoshi
        
       Author : polm23
       Score  : 103 points
       Date   : 2021-01-16 11:23 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (azumamakoto.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (azumamakoto.com)
        
       | pvaldes wrote:
       | Too expensive in terms of energy for most homes probably, but I
       | could see it perfectly being hired as a tree hospital to recover
       | valuable bonsai specimens in urban areas where maintaining and
       | finding space for a bigger greenhouse can be complicated
       | 
       | Would be also a good anti-theft device. It looks heavy.
        
       | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
       | My first association was
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_White, the second
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifeforce_(film)
       | 
       | As in https://cdn.flickeringmyth.com/wp-
       | content/uploads/2020/03/li...
       | 
       | :-)
        
       | ThePhysicist wrote:
       | Looks really cool. They even play music for the plant!
       | 
       | I'm running several aquariums at home between 17 and 240 litres
       | that I try to run with as little intervention as possible, so I'm
       | quite interested in self-sustaining minuature "ecosystems". In
       | aquariums the plant growth is usually the one thing that requires
       | intervention, as some plant species (especially stem plants and
       | floating plants) will completely overrun the ecosystem within
       | weeks if not trimmed back, and they often will shade the other
       | plants causing them to become stunted or die off entirely.
       | 
       | Aquarists or aquascapers (which is a trend that in its modern
       | interpretation also originated in Japan) will often take pride in
       | being able to grow rare or demanding plant species in their
       | tanks. In some cases this can require holding a lot of parameters
       | in balance: Light, micro- & macro-nutrients (in the water and in
       | the soil), water hardness, PH and temperature.
        
         | christiansakai wrote:
         | Fellow aquascapers here! I went from Walstad mode to high-tech
         | slow growing plants ADA style. Both are surprisingly low
         | maintenance and algae free. I just change the water, do some
         | ferts, and feed the fish. I think I can bypass changing the
         | water if I want to.
        
         | Vervious wrote:
         | It's crazy how much and how little maintenance a high-tech
         | aquascape needs. I just got back from a six-week trip and all
         | the stems and carpet are completely overgrown, but algae is
         | still minimal and the fish and shrimp are none-the-wiser.
        
           | petre wrote:
           | What do your shripm and fush eat?algae, dead plants
           | exclysively? I'm just changing the water in onne of my low
           | tech aquariums as we speak. I have RCS, Boraras and Otos in
           | them.
        
         | jimnotgym wrote:
         | I have been following this movement on YouTube. It looks
         | fascinating.
         | 
         | A lot more interesting to me than the bonsai installation. I
         | have an aesthetic and a practical concern. Practically pines
         | (and many others) naturally have a dormant period over the
         | winter, which is amongst the reasons why bonsai live outside.
         | Some trees die without it. It also looks like a great
         | environment for fungal growth!
         | 
         | Aesthetically this is more like seeing a person on life support
         | than seeing them alive. Like bonsai tree in the matrix.
         | 
         | I guess this is just an art installation though, but I hope
         | they don't kill the tree.
        
         | qwantim1 wrote:
         | My one experiment in setting up a natural ecosystem in a small
         | aquarium went horribly wrong, with organic sediment floating
         | all around in the tank.
         | 
         | Natural freshwater aquariums that are setup properly look
         | beautiful compared to the majority of aquariums for freshwater
         | that are just gravel, but setup and water changes take much
         | more planning, access to materials, and talent than I found
         | that I have.
        
           | christiansakai wrote:
           | It has its learning curve for sure, but experimentation +
           | reading is key.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ThePhysicist wrote:
           | I only change water at the beginning when setting up a new
           | aquarium, once it's stable I do a water change maybe every
           | 3-6 months. The small tanks have a lot of evaporation as well
           | so every week I add 2-4 litres of fresh water to them, so
           | additional water changes are not really needed. If you have a
           | large number of healthy plants in the aquarium and enough
           | filter surface there's usually no problem with
           | nitrate/nitrite buildup. I know people that run their
           | aquariums for decades without a water change (replacing
           | evaporated water of course), so it's definitely possible. You
           | can't agressively use fertilizer though in that case. Most
           | aquascapers use "estimative index" fertilization method where
           | they usually strongly overdose fertilizer to ensure no plant
           | has any nutrient deficiencies, this then makes regular water
           | changes necessary as inevitably there will be a buildup of
           | organics or nutrients otherwise. Personally I found that with
           | most plants you don't need to do that.
           | 
           | In most of my aquariums I also don't use organic soil and
           | instead put a combination of volcanic (anorganic) rock and
           | gravel. Works quite well for most plants and if you have
           | enough fish in the aquarium they will produce almost all
           | necessary organics for your plants to thrive.
        
             | studius wrote:
             | How would you approach setting up and maintaining the
             | following nano-aquascape, with an outcome similar to the
             | Walstad method[1][2]:
             | 
             | * freshwater 11.3L natural tank, ranging 9.5L - 11L through
             | evaporation
             | 
             | * no powered filtration, aeration, and optimally without a
             | water heater
             | 
             | * little if any sunlight
             | 
             | * water temperature in tank may range 18.3C to 24.9C
             | through each year
             | 
             | * 1 or more aquatic creatures, preferably one creature
             | living a few or more years, removed within a day if they
             | die and replaced within 3 weeks
             | 
             | * no water changes after 2-3 months of stabilization
             | initially
             | 
             | * no more than a few hours of initial setup
             | 
             | * little maintenance required to sustain itself as
             | described other than topping tank with inexpensive bottled
             | spring water
             | 
             | * high probability of sustaining itself within these
             | constraints for many years
             | 
             | I read and experienced that smaller tanks are harder to
             | setup with 10cm of sand possibly needed for Walstad method
             | that size tank[3].
             | 
             | In "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" and on her site,
             | Walstad writes that she had success with 3.8L and 7.6L
             | tanks using her Dry Start Method[4] to setup the plants,
             | and then hosted shrimp. However, as interesting a shrimp
             | are, my experience with ghost shrimp was that they were
             | inexpensive, looked lively, and then died suddenly within
             | weeks. She speaks of red cherry shrimp, which I've not
             | found locally. I recommend her site[5] which has a lot of
             | information about Planted Aquariums along with the latest
             | corrections for her book; she also describes how she bred
             | guppies in 12 gallon plastic tubs without any filtration or
             | aeration[6] outdoors 15.5C-25.5degF.
             | 
             | [1]- https://amazon.com/dp/B00DB94K5I
             | 
             | [2]- http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/wiki/Walstad_method
             | 
             | [3]- https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/set
             | ting-u...
             | 
             | [4]- https://dianawalstad.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/shrim
             | prcs20...
             | 
             | [5]- https://dianawalstad.com/aquariums/
             | 
             | [6]-
             | https://dianawalstad.files.wordpress.com/2020/08/small-
             | scale...
        
               | ThePhysicist wrote:
               | I have a 17L tank that effectively has maybe 10L of
               | water, in which I keep small guppies (offspring from my
               | larger tanks) until the outgrow it. It's sitting on a
               | bookshelf in the hallway, completely unheated. I use a
               | regular Philips 13 W 4000 K LED (around 1.500 Lumen)
               | mounted in an Ikea desk lamp as lighting. For filtering I
               | use a backpack filter (AquaClear) filled with ceramic
               | filter material with high surface-to-volume ratio and
               | some fine polyester wool. I prefer these types of filters
               | for small tanks as they hang outside of the tank and
               | dont't use up any space inside.
               | 
               | The most important thing for a healthy aquascape is to
               | have many healthy plants, with some fast-growing ones
               | that will take up any excess nutrients. For an open tank
               | I recommend water lentils (they can get out of control
               | fast though) or swim ferns like Limnobium Laevigatum or
               | Salvinia Auriculata (beware of the shade they create). In
               | my tank I also keep Hydrocotyle Tripartita, which looks
               | great in an open tank that can be viewed from above,
               | grows fast and forms a nice carpet that doesn't grow too
               | high(unless it doesn't get enough light, in which case it
               | will grow mostly vertically). I also keep two Echinidorae
               | Ocelot, which are really easy and form a dense system of
               | roots. Finally, I have some Limnobium Laevigatum as a
               | floating plant and a small carpet of Hemianthus
               | callitrichoides Cuba (HCC), which is rather complicated
               | to keep and requires good CO2 injection (I use a plastic
               | bottle with a yeast-sugar mix and a small upturned glas
               | bowl in the tank to set CO2 at 25 mg/l). Having some
               | root-forming plants is important as the roots will keep
               | the ground from becoming anaerobic, which can lead to a
               | foul-smelling aquarium. As substrate I use volcanic
               | gravel below and regular gravel (2-4mm grain size) above,
               | possibly with some nutrient-rich soil above (this will
               | help e.g. with HCC but isn't required). For a small tank
               | I'd go for 3-5 cm of substrate at most. You can have more
               | but you'll need to ensure you have root-forming plants in
               | most areas that keep the substrate aereated. I fertilize
               | with micro- & macro-nutrient fertilizers every couple of
               | days. Lighthing is turned on for 11 hours. I feed the
               | fish (12 small, not fully grown guppies) once a day and
               | am careful not to overfeed. I also keep 10-20 ramshorn
               | snails (they can reproduce quite fast but if you don't
               | overfeed your fish their numbers stabilizes quickly).
               | 
               | Sakura shrimp are quite easy to keep as well and will
               | reproduce without much effort, larger fish (even fully
               | grown Guppies) will see the small ones as food though and
               | stress the large ones enough to kill them, so beware of
               | putting them in a tank with fish.
               | 
               | In the first 2 weeks you'll see a lot of brown silica
               | algae form everywhere, which is normal, usually followed
               | by some green algea. Which types of algea you'll get
               | depends heavily on your water parameters though
               | (hardness, mineral content and contaminants), I have
               | hard, nutrient-rich water and get mostly green algea,
               | other people see brush or black algea instead. After 4-6
               | weeks they should mostly disappear as the plants start to
               | grow rapidly and take up most of the nutrients in the
               | water, starving the algae.
               | 
               | So to summarize:
               | 
               | - Use lots of healthy plants, at least some of them
               | should be fast-growing (you can remove these later if you
               | don't like them). There should be as many plants as
               | possible, while making sure they don't shade each other.
               | Great fast-growing plants are e.g. stem plants like
               | Hygrophilia Polysperma, Rotala Gia Lai / H'Ra (one of my
               | favorites) or swimming plants like Hydrocotyle
               | Leucocephala (which is not very suitable for small tanks
               | though IMHO). A great carpet-forming plant is e.g.
               | Marsilea Hirsuta, which grows quite well without CO2 and
               | low lighting.
               | 
               | - Don't overfertilize in the beginning, start with 25 %
               | of the recommended dose and work upwards.
               | 
               | - Start with 8 hours of lighting and work your way up to
               | 12 hours during 4-8 weeks.
               | 
               | - Add snails or shrimp after 1-2 weeks and fish after 2-4
               | weeks (not too many at once). Be sure to select fish that
               | are suitable for nano aquariums (opinions diverge here
               | but IMHO you can easily keep e.g. smaller Guppies in a
               | nano tank as well).
               | 
               | - If the tank develops a serious algae problem (e.g. blue
               | algae) block out all light for 3-4 days, this kills most
               | types of algae and can give plants an advantage as soon
               | as the lighting comes back.
               | 
               | - Only clean the filter when you notice the flow is
               | drastically reduced. Don't wash the filter material with
               | hot water or anything, just press it out in a small
               | bucket/bowl of water from the aquarium until most of the
               | coarse dirt is gone. The filter bacteria are the most
               | important part of your tank, so treat them with respect.
               | 
               | - Have patience, the tank will usually look quite ugly
               | for the first 4-8 weeks, so don't give up easily.
        
               | petre wrote:
               | 10-12L is too small. Get a 20 or a 40L, use aqua soil
               | instead of all gravel, heavily plant it, work less. I
               | prefer to keep shrimp, boraras some otos and one or two
               | clithon snails (one per 20L).
        
       | bloak wrote:
       | Apparently the oldest known closed terrarium has been sealed
       | since 1972: search for "David Latimer" and "terrarium".
       | Apparently they were popular around 1960 so I'm disappointed they
       | can't find one that's been going since 1960.
        
         | jgwil2 wrote:
         | I'll save you a search: https://biologicperformance.com/sealed-
         | bottle-terrarium-gard...
         | 
         | Funnily enough just stumbled across this the other day.
        
           | SulfurHexaFluri wrote:
           | This is probably the most interesting thing I have seen in a
           | long time. This just seems like something that simply
           | shouldn't be possible. I tried looking up more info but most
           | of the results are this guy.
           | 
           | Does anyone know if it really is as simple as putting some
           | dirt and water in a pot or are there more specific
           | requirements for it to work?
        
       | hinoki wrote:
       | I saw this sitting in what looked like a brutalist parking spot
       | when out Christmas shopping. There was no label or explanation,
       | so I thought it was some artwork being moved somewhere. Thanks HN
       | for providing an explanation.
       | 
       | Google maps with some more amateur pictures:
       | https://goo.gl/maps/yP1XYay2fCKvFEV29
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-17 23:02 UTC)