[HN Gopher] Limiting Private API Availability in Chromium
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       Limiting Private API Availability in Chromium
        
       Author : yunohn
       Score  : 85 points
       Date   : 2021-01-16 09:12 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.chromium.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.chromium.org)
        
       | foolinaround wrote:
       | Chrome is making this play to limit the functionality in browsers
       | such as Vivaldi, Brave, etc.
       | 
       | maybe its good after all to have a different service that
       | provides a private store ( in dropbox etc) for bookmarks.
       | 
       | Dropbox (and others) can take care of the syncing.
        
         | SkyMarshal wrote:
         | Note to self: Don't use an open source codebase controlled by a
         | major corporation to build a product that competes with that
         | corporation's product.
        
         | axaxs wrote:
         | Brave doesn't use sign in functionality for syncing. Unsure
         | about Vivaldi.
        
           | LinAGKar wrote:
           | Vivaldi have their own accounts, and so does Opera and Edge.
           | The biggest impact is for Linux distros which have Chromium
           | in the repos, since they can't redistribute Chrome.
        
         | jfk13 wrote:
         | Not sure I'd care to recommend Dropbox after just seeing
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25789603.
        
         | j1elo wrote:
         | Xmarks was great for that. It just worked, and I liked that it
         | was independent of the browser in question, so the same
         | bookmarks could be shared and synced with Firefox and Chrome.
         | But it disappeared... we cannot have nice things!
        
           | smarx007 wrote:
           | xBrowserSync is not as nice (frequent full re-syncs) but
           | still syncs bookmarks between Chrome & co. and Firefox. Had
           | to switch to it after Xmarks was discontinued.
        
       | lrossi wrote:
       | Sad. I have often switched to Chromium whenever a Chrome update
       | was breaking various websites I used. Chromium is lagging a bit
       | behind in repositories; some delay is enough to let the website
       | owners update. Then I can switch back to Chrome for that site
       | once again.
       | 
       | This has been happening more often lately, in my experience.
       | Sure, you could say that the website is broken and not the
       | browser. But from a user's perspective, it used to work and now
       | it doesn't. Users don't care whose fault it is.
       | 
       | But big corps don't care if less than 0.1% of users are impacted.
       | Even if that means 100,000 people. So it's ok to break a few
       | eggs.
       | 
       | As a website owner myself, I've had to make changes about once a
       | year to keep things running properly in Chrome due to deprecated
       | APIs. This is for a website that has not changed at all otherwise
       | in 5 years, and I built without using any external dependencies
       | so that I can avoid updating things.
       | 
       | Compare this with other environments: Windows apps usually can
       | run for 20 years without issues; Linux apps even more. Not to
       | mention document formats, like PDF, which are pretty much
       | guaranteed to be accessible forever. Adobe got at least one thing
       | right.
       | 
       | The only good thing I can say about this disregard for backwards
       | compatibility is that it gives web developers good job security.
        
         | Ayesh wrote:
         | I don't think any web developer needs to be concerned. It's
         | about chromium based browser developers, who will find their
         | browser cannot use these private Google APIs anymore.
         | 
         | Browsers that don't use Google services (such as ungoogoed
         | chrome, Vivaldi, and Brave for example) will be fine. A
         | rebranded Google chrome fork will not.
        
           | lrossi wrote:
           | Other comments say that Chromium is affected as well. Is it?
           | 
           | I reread the article, but it doesn't seem to state it
           | explicitly.
        
         | slrz wrote:
         | > _As a website owner myself, I've had to make changes about
         | once a year to keep things running properly in Chrome due to
         | deprecated APIs_
         | 
         | Does this refer to standard Web APIs or Chrome-specific and
         | more or less experimental interfaces?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | bilal4hmed wrote:
       | Private APIs are just that private aka not for everyone else to
       | use. I dont see the issue here
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | Maybe I've got the wrong document, but why would a private api
         | have a public doc on how to use it?
         | 
         | https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/HEAD/docs/s...
         | 
         | Edit: Unrelated to what's above, but searching around I came
         | across chrome://sync-internals/ I wasn't aware that existed in
         | Chrome. It's a pretty complete admin type view.
        
           | est31 wrote:
           | chromium is an open source browser. Its development is closed
           | enough already.
        
       | chaz6 wrote:
       | Hopefully this will spur on some competition. I could be tempted
       | to use a Chromium-based browser if I could easily store my data
       | in Nextcloud.
        
         | suhail wrote:
         | It won't. For users, it will simply make it harder to move to
         | anything not owned by Google.
         | 
         | If you can't move bookmarks, passwords, extensions, history, it
         | requires more effort for the user to switch.
         | 
         | Not too mention, interop to sync on mobile.
        
           | franga2000 wrote:
           | You should be able to move them, just not directly sync them
           | with Google. GDPR etc. took care of that. It's on the third
           | party developers to make importing data as easy as possible.
        
       | suhail wrote:
       | Worked for years. Even showed up in the GCP dashboard as having
       | access. Had no idea it "private". We just plugged in credentials
       | from Google as per chromium build instructions. They knew we and
       | others were using it because there are stats.
       | 
       | Now we are given 2 months to develop a completely new solution.
        
         | lima wrote:
         | The Chromium build instructions are very clear on this:
         | https://www.chromium.org/developers/how-tos/api-keys
         | 
         | > _Note that the keys you have now acquired are not for
         | distribution purposes and must not be shared with other users._
         | 
         | > _Many of the Google APIs used by Chromium code are specific
         | to Google Chrome and not intended for use in derived products.
         | In the API Console (http://developers.google.com/console) you
         | may be able to purchase additional quota for some of the APIs
         | listed above. For APIs that do not have a "Pricing" link,
         | additional quota is not available for purchase._
         | 
         | The notice has been there since 2013, when the page was first
         | archived:
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20131211101458/https://www.chrom...
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | suhail wrote:
           | Buried in depths of their documentation? It's also _worked_
           | for years too. Google has docs that are completely outdated
           | and neglected. Chrome Extension docs didn't get updated for
           | 5+ years until recently.
           | 
           | Why put it in the console then? Why have tool tips that say
           | "Access to this API is enabled."
           | 
           | There's no improvement to security. This will be a cake walk
           | to reverse engineer.
           | 
           | I don't see how my point is invalid.
        
       | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
       | > Google features, such as [...] Click to Call, that are only
       | intended for Google's use
       | 
       | What is this "Click to Call"?
        
         | Jonnax wrote:
         | https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/native-hardwa...
         | 
         | Looks like you tap a phone number on a web page and it opens
         | the dialer app
        
           | merb wrote:
           | I'm not sure if they meant that. Pretty sure that is standard
           | and also works in os's where the link from the browser will
           | be forwarded to the os, which directs to the default dialer
           | application of the os.
           | 
           | and it's probably a html living standard.
        
             | joshuaissac wrote:
             | That's right. The tel protocol is described in RFC 2806,
             | which was written in 2000, although the proposal to make it
             | an Internet Standard did not succeed.[1] It is certainly
             | not a proprietary Google Chrome feature.
             | 
             | It may be referring instead to the Chrome feature that
             | allows users to open tel links using their phone (from
             | their desktop).[2]
             | 
             | 1. https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2806.txt
             | 
             | 2. https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/11/05/chrome-
             | beta-78-desk...
        
               | merb wrote:
               | oh yeah I tried to google what It could mean but I think
               | your second link might be it. didn't found that by
               | googling click to call tough.
        
         | lima wrote:
         | You can right-click on a phone number to call it from an
         | Android phone connected to the same account.
        
       | greatgib wrote:
       | Personally I don't like these features, but can't this official
       | move being seen as way to curve competitors?
       | 
       | Especially looking at how the announcement is worded?
       | 
       | "This meant that a small fraction of users could sign into their
       | Google Account and store their personal Chrome sync data, such as
       | bookmarks, not just with Google Chrome, but also with some third-
       | party Chromium based browsers. We are limiting access to our
       | private Chrome APIs starting on March 15, 2021."
       | 
       | That I understand as "you can use the open source chromium
       | version, but we did what was necessary to ensure that in all
       | cases and derivatives it will be inferior to closed Chrome".
       | 
       | Maybe a next move could be to disable the possibility to use the
       | chromecast from Chromium?
        
         | magicalist wrote:
         | > _but can 't this official move being seen as way to curve
         | competitors?_
         | 
         | What competitors are using chrome sync? Other comments mention
         | Brave and Vivaldi, but they both have their own sync systems.
         | Edge has Microsoft accounts, ungoogled-chromium has sync
         | disabled completely...
        
         | hansvm wrote:
         | > you can use the open source chromium version, but we did what
         | was necessary to ensure that in all cases and derivatives it
         | will be inferior to closed Chrome
         | 
         | Alternatively, "you can use the open source chromium version or
         | a derivative, but we won't operate as a free host for our
         | competitors."
         | 
         | Regardless of their motivations, from my perspective this
         | doesn't have any of the ethical questionability of actions like
         | penalizing non-AMP pages; they seem to be well within their
         | rights (and not in a "technically that's allowed, but they're
         | still kind of shitty" way like some of the stunts that Nintendo
         | pulls with copyright law).
        
         | eqtn wrote:
         | Or possibly to disable chrome webstore access for other
         | chromium based browsers
        
         | bzb6 wrote:
         | Why should third party browsers be able to use google servers
         | to store data? Why should google provide this service for free?
        
       | CSDude wrote:
       | It's good that Chromium is degoogle'd more, however did they
       | really notice it thanks to an audit? Probably anyone in the
       | organization could have pinpointed this situation existing for
       | years. Or are they just fed up with the (somewhat) popular forks
       | gaining traction? I understand Google's point of view but the
       | phrasing it as a result of an external audit seems funny.
        
         | lima wrote:
         | They didn't say it was an external audit.
        
       | abrowne wrote:
       | Anyone know if by "third-party Chromium based browsers" they mean
       | sonething like Ubuntu's Chromium package or something like Brave
       | or Vivaldi?
        
         | anaisbetts wrote:
         | All of the above. The only entity that is now allowed to use /
         | call these APIs is Google-built software
        
           | abrowne wrote:
           | Too bad (I use Ubuntu's Chromium): I don't use sync, but I'll
           | miss the Google Translate feature in Chromium.
        
       | CyberRabbi wrote:
       | How are they technically going to prevent non-chrome builds from
       | using these features?
        
         | Ayesh wrote:
         | Google Chrome isn't open source, so they can modify chromium as
         | much as they want to add their now-private APIs.
        
       | lumost wrote:
       | Having recently tested the waters of Firefox after using chrome
       | for the last 10 years. Firefox was just a faster, and better
       | experience.
       | 
       | Chrome is handicapped by the need to support Google's ad
       | business. Open-source, and potentially freemium browsers do not
       | have this limitation. Non-google browsers can block most
       | trackers, auto-fill privacy settings to be the best for the
       | customer and hell, maybe even auto-deny cookies for websites that
       | function fine without them.
       | 
       | This makes the internet noticeably faster, but the con is that
       | there is more browser lock-in than before due to features like
       | stored passwords, credit cards, search suggestions and other
       | tedious to enter information.
        
         | oellegaard wrote:
         | Couldn't agree more. I use Safari and Firefox and couldn't be
         | more happy after finally deleting Chrome after using it since
         | forever.
        
         | cat199 wrote:
         | my only need for chrome is compatibility testing & node
         | devtools.. please FF grow some node devtools !!
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-16 23:02 UTC)