[HN Gopher] Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker
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       Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker
        
       Author : samizdis
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2021-01-15 12:29 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
        
       | maxerickson wrote:
       | $50,000+ in year 2000 dollars for 142 mile range.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | imglorp wrote:
         | Vs GM's current token, the Bolt, at $36,500 for 259 mile range,
         | with an 8/100 warranty. It's a perfectly cromulent car at this
         | point: including a couple features Tesla 3 doesn't have like
         | hatchback and headlights that steer into curves.
         | 
         | But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric, it's
         | still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the channels:
         | I had to argue with several dealers to get a test drive because
         | many are both threatened by the Bolt and ignorant of it. I
         | finally found a good dealer with stock and knowledge to give me
         | a test drive last year. Mary has been open that half the
         | company is a liability, as well.
         | 
         | https://www.barrons.com/articles/mary-barra-on-general-motor...
        
           | perardi wrote:
           | I have no idea what GM was thinking in regards to the design
           | of the Bolt.
           | 
           | "You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks. So let's go for
           | that for our big re-entry into the EV market."
        
             | acct776 wrote:
             | They were thinking that slowing down EV adoption helps them
             | retain market strength longer.
             | 
             | Or gives them more time to adapt/learn before more serious
             | ventures in.
        
               | perardi wrote:
               | Yeah, it reads like a compliance vehicle. They know
               | they'll lose money hand over fist, so they made it as
               | much of a nerd pod as possible.
               | 
               | (And there's a market for nerd pods. See: Prius. But that
               | ain't Chevy's market, no sir.)
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | Companies that produce compliance vehicles do it only
               | where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota
               | that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not
               | describe GM.
               | 
               | GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in
               | all states and provinces of North America. Which is more
               | than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just
               | a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only
               | GM and Tesla have taken battery temp management and
               | lifespans seriously.
               | 
               | GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. They are not
               | producing compliance cars.
               | 
               | Unlike Tesla they are responsible to their shareholders,
               | and have to pay a dividend. So they make and sell what is
               | profitable. The EV thing, they are limited by battery
               | supplies and market demand, but they are well positioned
               | to do better than the others once those obstacles are
               | surmounted.
               | 
               | The Bolt is a good vehicle. It's not in a form factor I
               | love, but the tech in it is excellent.
        
               | somerandomqaguy wrote:
               | GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between
               | selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. And GM's
               | CEO Mary Barra full on admitted to GM investors that GM
               | EV's will likely not see profitability until between 2020
               | and 2030 [2], and AFAIK it's mostly due to focusing on
               | Cadilliac branded EV's first.
               | 
               | I don't know of much reason to spend high capital to
               | create a production line, and then take a loss per unit
               | sold other then for compliance.
               | 
               | [1]https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/
               | 
               | [2]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-
               | make-mon...
        
               | xxpor wrote:
               | That's amazing concidering how crappy the bolt I test
               | drove 6 months ago was. It was like they took their
               | cheapest subcompact, threw some batteries and motors in
               | it, and started charging $40k for a car that if it were
               | gas would be maybe $20k at best.
        
               | refurb wrote:
               | Is it that amazing? GM has been squeezing efficiency out
               | of thier ICE production lines for close to 100 years.
               | 
               | Suddenly switch to a new type of power train and combine
               | that with small volumes and I'm not surprised in the
               | least it crazy expensive.
        
               | evgen wrote:
               | > GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere
               | between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1].
               | 
               | Tesla consistently has a larger loss per vehicle, and
               | unlike GM there is no actual profit center to compensate
               | if the government subsidies happen to dry up.
        
               | omgwtfbyobbq wrote:
               | Tesla's been able to improve to the point where they are
               | still profitable without emissions credit sales.
               | 
               | https://tesla-
               | cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/document/tesla/3...
               | 
               | They could cut the $330 million in R&D costs too, but i
               | don't think they should given their niche.
        
             | CalChris wrote:
             | The Nissan Leaf is a hatchback. The Tesla Model S is a
             | hatchback. So is the Y. You might be right about real
             | Amuricuns but the EV buying segment rather likes
             | hatchbacks. With the exception of one SUV, which I did not
             | like, every car I've ever owned since my first Honda Civic
             | has been a hatchback.
        
               | brians wrote:
               | My model 3 has an enclosed trunk. Why would you call it a
               | hatchback?
        
               | CalChris wrote:
               | Doh, you're right. (Corrected) I have an S and the 3
               | isn't a hatchback (but the Y is). Need coffee. And indeed
               | that was the reason I didn't get the 3 when it came out.
               | The S is a little big for me but the 3 isn't a hatchback.
               | I really like the Y though.
        
               | perardi wrote:
               | Oh, Americans actually like vehicles that happen to have
               | a large hatch in the back, but they do not like cars that
               | are shaped like hatchbacks. The Model S is shaped like a
               | sports sedan. It does not look like a hatchback.
        
               | stretchcat wrote:
               | If you think a hatchback doesn't look the way you expect
               | a hatchback to look, then your expectation of what
               | hatchbacks look like is obviously wrong and should be
               | updated.
               | 
               | If I had to guess, what you think of as _" looks like a
               | hatchback"_ is actually 'two-box' while _" shaped like a
               | sedan"_ is 'three-box.' Three-box hatchbacks have been
               | around for decades though.
        
               | CalChris wrote:
               | It is however a hatchback. I dump my bike in the back as
               | I have with every hatchback I've owned. You can even camp
               | in the back. But if you prefer, you can call it a
               | liftback.
        
               | omgwtfbyobbq wrote:
               | I've been under the impression that hatchback versus lift
               | back depends on the car's dimensions. A longer car with a
               | shape closer to a conventional sedan would be a liftback
               | and a shorter/boxier car with a shape closer to a
               | traditional SUV would be a hatchback. But it is
               | essentially the same.
        
               | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
               | I believe the Model S is better described as a liftback
               | than a hatchback.
               | 
               | I think hatchbacks are unpopular in the US for the same
               | reason automatic gearboxes are unpopular in the UK:
               | automakers price them higher and in the smaller car
               | segments (where hatchbacks are more prevalent) carbuyers
               | are more price-sensitive. I don't know why carmakers
               | price them higher - it seems artificial.
        
             | itsoktocry wrote:
             | > _"You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks "_
             | 
             | Where on earth do you get his from? The top selling cars in
             | the US are mostly SUVs and CUVs. In other words,
             | hatchbacks.
        
               | BoorishBears wrote:
               | Although technically this is a hatchback:
               | 
               | https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/vg6LR/s1/2018-bmw-430i-
               | gra...
               | 
               | and this is a hatchback:
               | 
               | https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9e/76/9d/9e769dd145c21f6aa
               | edf...
               | 
               | In casual speech most people are referring to two-box
               | sub-compact/compact hatchbacks that look like this:
               | 
               | https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/custom/14323/2
               | 020...
               | 
               | https://www.gannett-
               | cdn.com/-mm-/38b2e6935d2caa4e96e963348fc...
               | 
               | https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/custom/14314/2
               | 020...
               | 
               | Which are much more popular in Europe than the US. In the
               | US they're often derided as "econoboxes"
        
             | greesil wrote:
             | I love my Bolt. Inexpensive, smooth, carries kids, has a
             | roof rack.
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | +1. I combine the two and carry my kids on the roof rack
               | for additional cargo space.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | Agreed, there's a lot to be said for it. I drive a Tesla
               | Model 3 and my wife drives a Bolt, which means I get
               | plenty of seat time in both. I wouldn't say the Tesla is
               | definitively better. There are things I definitely prefer
               | the Bolt for.
        
           | danans wrote:
           | > But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric,
           | it's still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the
           | channels: I had to argue with several dealers to get a test
           | drive because many are both threatened by the Bolt and
           | ignorant of it.
           | 
           | With good reason. EVs, thanks to their mechanical simplicity
           | and resulting lower maintenance costs, present a major
           | problem for traditional dealers who are reliant on
           | maintenance revenue for EV engines.
           | 
           | There is also cultural friction resulting from the use of
           | petroleum becoming an identity politics issue for many - with
           | particular constituencies (like auto dealerships and oil
           | companies) having their interests tied to petroleum based
           | vehicle technology. The grassroots expressions of this
           | include the "ICE-ing" of EV chargers [1].
           | 
           | This identity dimension has increased as petroleum gradually
           | loses its actual product advantages (rapid fueling being the
           | most significant).
           | 
           | 1. https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/ram-1500-that-
           | identifies-a... https://www.techspot.com/news/78089-tesla-
           | hating-pickup-driv...
        
             | refurb wrote:
             | I don't buy dealership that dealerships don't like EVs
             | because they make less money on repairs.
             | 
             | A lot of the work dealers do is warranty work (paid my
             | mfr). Warranty work is due to manufacturer defect and
             | defects can happen with ICE vehicles or EVs. Just look at
             | the build quality issues Tesla was having.
             | 
             | Maintenance and repair issues go far beyond the engine.
             | Power train, electrical, doors, windows, brakes, lighting -
             | all of which EVs still have. Yeah, it's great when you
             | don't need an oil or filter change twice a year, but that's
             | about all the maintenance an ICE needs.
        
           | AuthorizedCust wrote:
           | Nice Simpson's reference: cromulent.
           | 
           | More info: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent
        
             | dragosmocrii wrote:
             | Was about to make the same reference. It's a nice sounding
             | word "cromulent", this and the word "fillichor".
        
           | throw0101a wrote:
           | Doing a quick search, GM's ten best-selling vehicles were
           | trucks and SUVs in 2019:
           | 
           | * https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/03/these-were-
           | the-10-best-...
           | 
           | Except for the Malibu (#5).
           | 
           | It may be that they are (were?) doing things small to start
           | to learn a bit more before ramping up. Just yesterday (1/15)
           | they announced a major investment for EVs in Ontario:
           | 
           | * https://www.thespec.com/ts/business/2021/01/15/gm-canada-
           | ann...
           | 
           | There could also be friction given GM's large dealership
           | network about profits: service departments are needed much
           | less with EVs compare to ICE vehicles.
           | 
           | I think things will change once GM announce EV SUVs and pick-
           | up trucks. How knows when that will be though.
        
       | handol wrote:
       | Hey that looks familiar. I helped push it inside when it arrived.
       | Still had that new car smell when I took my turn sitting in it.
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | > _had 142 miles of range decades ago_
       | 
       | It's intesting that they managed to get 2x the range of the
       | first-gen "LEAF" without Lion technology
        
       | wumms wrote:
       | Quote from the trailer of _Who Killed the Electric Car?_ (2006)
       | [0], featuring the EV1:  "The electric vehicle is not for
       | everybody - it can only meet the needs of 90% of the population"
       | 
       | [0] https://www.imdb.com/video/vi2147287321?playlistId=tt0489037
        
       | danans wrote:
       | I wonder how well the NiMH battery in it holds a charge after all
       | these years. It would be a fun project to customize a new modern
       | battery pack to replace the original. I hope someone takes that
       | up.
        
       | Tade0 wrote:
       | Reminds me of the "abandoned" Subaru(or actually Fuji) dealership
       | in Malta:
       | 
       | https://www.autoindustriya.com/auto-industry-news/time-capsu...
       | 
       | Only the car in question is much more unique.
        
         | Something1234 wrote:
         | Is there an interview with owner or something that explains
         | more than it exists and hasn't been updated?
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | I tried to find any additional information, but apparently
           | the owner is not interested in any media attention.
           | 
           | Worst part is I've been to Mosta - the city where the
           | dealership is located, was aware of its existence then but
           | when I saw it I didn't realise what I was looking at.
           | 
           | I remember thinking "what a weird country to have such old
           | cars on display".
           | 
           | Anyway Malta is full of unusual vehicles - it's the only
           | European country where I saw kei-cars on the streets.
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | We sold our classic 1959 Mercedes 220S cabriolet to a buyer
             | in Malta. It seemed fishy to us at first (that someone
             | would want to ship the car to Malta), but the buyer was
             | totally legit, did everything exactly as he promised, and
             | has sent us in-progress shots of the further restoration
             | work he's done to it.
        
               | gkop wrote:
               | I learned to drive (among other adventures) in a '64 220S
               | sedan, Mercedes Blue. I believe your Cabriolet must have
               | also been one of these special "heckflossen" huh?
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | Ours was a long body Ponton.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Ponton
               | 
               | http://www.mbzponton.org/pax058/people/sokoloff/sokoloff.
               | htm
               | 
               | Somewhere, I have a video of us rolling the odometer over
               | back to 00000.0 on a roadtrip back from a meet in
               | Pennsylvania (true mileage unknown, but we believe that
               | was the first odo rollover for the car).
        
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