[HN Gopher] Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker
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Pristine GM EV1 Preserved by University Caretaker
Author : samizdis
Score : 58 points
Date : 2021-01-15 12:29 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
| maxerickson wrote:
| $50,000+ in year 2000 dollars for 142 mile range.
| [deleted]
| imglorp wrote:
| Vs GM's current token, the Bolt, at $36,500 for 259 mile range,
| with an 8/100 warranty. It's a perfectly cromulent car at this
| point: including a couple features Tesla 3 doesn't have like
| hatchback and headlights that steer into curves.
|
| But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric, it's
| still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the channels:
| I had to argue with several dealers to get a test drive because
| many are both threatened by the Bolt and ignorant of it. I
| finally found a good dealer with stock and knowledge to give me
| a test drive last year. Mary has been open that half the
| company is a liability, as well.
|
| https://www.barrons.com/articles/mary-barra-on-general-motor...
| perardi wrote:
| I have no idea what GM was thinking in regards to the design
| of the Bolt.
|
| "You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks. So let's go for
| that for our big re-entry into the EV market."
| acct776 wrote:
| They were thinking that slowing down EV adoption helps them
| retain market strength longer.
|
| Or gives them more time to adapt/learn before more serious
| ventures in.
| perardi wrote:
| Yeah, it reads like a compliance vehicle. They know
| they'll lose money hand over fist, so they made it as
| much of a nerd pod as possible.
|
| (And there's a market for nerd pods. See: Prius. But that
| ain't Chevy's market, no sir.)
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Companies that produce compliance vehicles do it only
| where they have to comply. Hence companies like Toyota
| that make EVs only when forced to by law. That does not
| describe GM.
|
| GM sells & markets the Bolt (and formerly the Volt) in
| all states and provinces of North America. Which is more
| than you can say for most manufacturers. It's really just
| a family of Tesla, GM, and Nissan, and of those two only
| GM and Tesla have taken battery temp management and
| lifespans seriously.
|
| GM's EV engineering is up there with Tesla. They are not
| producing compliance cars.
|
| Unlike Tesla they are responsible to their shareholders,
| and have to pay a dividend. So they make and sell what is
| profitable. The EV thing, they are limited by battery
| supplies and market demand, but they are well positioned
| to do better than the others once those obstacles are
| surmounted.
|
| The Bolt is a good vehicle. It's not in a form factor I
| love, but the tech in it is excellent.
| somerandomqaguy wrote:
| GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere between
| selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1]. And GM's
| CEO Mary Barra full on admitted to GM investors that GM
| EV's will likely not see profitability until between 2020
| and 2030 [2], and AFAIK it's mostly due to focusing on
| Cadilliac branded EV's first.
|
| I don't know of much reason to spend high capital to
| create a production line, and then take a loss per unit
| sold other then for compliance.
|
| [1]https://www.hotcars.com/gm-admits-bolt-not-profitable/
|
| [2]https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/06/gm-doesnt-expect-to-
| make-mon...
| xxpor wrote:
| That's amazing concidering how crappy the bolt I test
| drove 6 months ago was. It was like they took their
| cheapest subcompact, threw some batteries and motors in
| it, and started charging $40k for a car that if it were
| gas would be maybe $20k at best.
| refurb wrote:
| Is it that amazing? GM has been squeezing efficiency out
| of thier ICE production lines for close to 100 years.
|
| Suddenly switch to a new type of power train and combine
| that with small volumes and I'm not surprised in the
| least it crazy expensive.
| evgen wrote:
| > GM was in the red for every Bolt sold, somewhere
| between selling each unit at a $4000 to $9000 loss[1].
|
| Tesla consistently has a larger loss per vehicle, and
| unlike GM there is no actual profit center to compensate
| if the government subsidies happen to dry up.
| omgwtfbyobbq wrote:
| Tesla's been able to improve to the point where they are
| still profitable without emissions credit sales.
|
| https://tesla-
| cdn.thron.com/delivery/public/document/tesla/3...
|
| They could cut the $330 million in R&D costs too, but i
| don't think they should given their niche.
| CalChris wrote:
| The Nissan Leaf is a hatchback. The Tesla Model S is a
| hatchback. So is the Y. You might be right about real
| Amuricuns but the EV buying segment rather likes
| hatchbacks. With the exception of one SUV, which I did not
| like, every car I've ever owned since my first Honda Civic
| has been a hatchback.
| brians wrote:
| My model 3 has an enclosed trunk. Why would you call it a
| hatchback?
| CalChris wrote:
| Doh, you're right. (Corrected) I have an S and the 3
| isn't a hatchback (but the Y is). Need coffee. And indeed
| that was the reason I didn't get the 3 when it came out.
| The S is a little big for me but the 3 isn't a hatchback.
| I really like the Y though.
| perardi wrote:
| Oh, Americans actually like vehicles that happen to have
| a large hatch in the back, but they do not like cars that
| are shaped like hatchbacks. The Model S is shaped like a
| sports sedan. It does not look like a hatchback.
| stretchcat wrote:
| If you think a hatchback doesn't look the way you expect
| a hatchback to look, then your expectation of what
| hatchbacks look like is obviously wrong and should be
| updated.
|
| If I had to guess, what you think of as _" looks like a
| hatchback"_ is actually 'two-box' while _" shaped like a
| sedan"_ is 'three-box.' Three-box hatchbacks have been
| around for decades though.
| CalChris wrote:
| It is however a hatchback. I dump my bike in the back as
| I have with every hatchback I've owned. You can even camp
| in the back. But if you prefer, you can call it a
| liftback.
| omgwtfbyobbq wrote:
| I've been under the impression that hatchback versus lift
| back depends on the car's dimensions. A longer car with a
| shape closer to a conventional sedan would be a liftback
| and a shorter/boxier car with a shape closer to a
| traditional SUV would be a hatchback. But it is
| essentially the same.
| DaiPlusPlus wrote:
| I believe the Model S is better described as a liftback
| than a hatchback.
|
| I think hatchbacks are unpopular in the US for the same
| reason automatic gearboxes are unpopular in the UK:
| automakers price them higher and in the smaller car
| segments (where hatchbacks are more prevalent) carbuyers
| are more price-sensitive. I don't know why carmakers
| price them higher - it seems artificial.
| itsoktocry wrote:
| > _"You know what Americans hate? Hatchbacks "_
|
| Where on earth do you get his from? The top selling cars in
| the US are mostly SUVs and CUVs. In other words,
| hatchbacks.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| Although technically this is a hatchback:
|
| https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/vg6LR/s1/2018-bmw-430i-
| gra...
|
| and this is a hatchback:
|
| https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9e/76/9d/9e769dd145c21f6aa
| edf...
|
| In casual speech most people are referring to two-box
| sub-compact/compact hatchbacks that look like this:
|
| https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/custom/14323/2
| 020...
|
| https://www.gannett-
| cdn.com/-mm-/38b2e6935d2caa4e96e963348fc...
|
| https://cars.usnews.com/static/images/Auto/custom/14314/2
| 020...
|
| Which are much more popular in Europe than the US. In the
| US they're often derided as "econoboxes"
| greesil wrote:
| I love my Bolt. Inexpensive, smooth, carries kids, has a
| roof rack.
| tomcam wrote:
| +1. I combine the two and carry my kids on the roof rack
| for additional cargo space.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Agreed, there's a lot to be said for it. I drive a Tesla
| Model 3 and my wife drives a Bolt, which means I get
| plenty of seat time in both. I wouldn't say the Tesla is
| definitively better. There are things I definitely prefer
| the Bolt for.
| danans wrote:
| > But despite Mary Barra saying they're all-in on electric,
| it's still a gesture at ~20k sold/year. It's partly on the
| channels: I had to argue with several dealers to get a test
| drive because many are both threatened by the Bolt and
| ignorant of it.
|
| With good reason. EVs, thanks to their mechanical simplicity
| and resulting lower maintenance costs, present a major
| problem for traditional dealers who are reliant on
| maintenance revenue for EV engines.
|
| There is also cultural friction resulting from the use of
| petroleum becoming an identity politics issue for many - with
| particular constituencies (like auto dealerships and oil
| companies) having their interests tied to petroleum based
| vehicle technology. The grassroots expressions of this
| include the "ICE-ing" of EV chargers [1].
|
| This identity dimension has increased as petroleum gradually
| loses its actual product advantages (rapid fueling being the
| most significant).
|
| 1. https://www.carscoops.com/2021/01/ram-1500-that-
| identifies-a... https://www.techspot.com/news/78089-tesla-
| hating-pickup-driv...
| refurb wrote:
| I don't buy dealership that dealerships don't like EVs
| because they make less money on repairs.
|
| A lot of the work dealers do is warranty work (paid my
| mfr). Warranty work is due to manufacturer defect and
| defects can happen with ICE vehicles or EVs. Just look at
| the build quality issues Tesla was having.
|
| Maintenance and repair issues go far beyond the engine.
| Power train, electrical, doors, windows, brakes, lighting -
| all of which EVs still have. Yeah, it's great when you
| don't need an oil or filter change twice a year, but that's
| about all the maintenance an ICE needs.
| AuthorizedCust wrote:
| Nice Simpson's reference: cromulent.
|
| More info: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent
| dragosmocrii wrote:
| Was about to make the same reference. It's a nice sounding
| word "cromulent", this and the word "fillichor".
| throw0101a wrote:
| Doing a quick search, GM's ten best-selling vehicles were
| trucks and SUVs in 2019:
|
| * https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/03/these-were-
| the-10-best-...
|
| Except for the Malibu (#5).
|
| It may be that they are (were?) doing things small to start
| to learn a bit more before ramping up. Just yesterday (1/15)
| they announced a major investment for EVs in Ontario:
|
| * https://www.thespec.com/ts/business/2021/01/15/gm-canada-
| ann...
|
| There could also be friction given GM's large dealership
| network about profits: service departments are needed much
| less with EVs compare to ICE vehicles.
|
| I think things will change once GM announce EV SUVs and pick-
| up trucks. How knows when that will be though.
| handol wrote:
| Hey that looks familiar. I helped push it inside when it arrived.
| Still had that new car smell when I took my turn sitting in it.
| fortran77 wrote:
| > _had 142 miles of range decades ago_
|
| It's intesting that they managed to get 2x the range of the
| first-gen "LEAF" without Lion technology
| wumms wrote:
| Quote from the trailer of _Who Killed the Electric Car?_ (2006)
| [0], featuring the EV1: "The electric vehicle is not for
| everybody - it can only meet the needs of 90% of the population"
|
| [0] https://www.imdb.com/video/vi2147287321?playlistId=tt0489037
| danans wrote:
| I wonder how well the NiMH battery in it holds a charge after all
| these years. It would be a fun project to customize a new modern
| battery pack to replace the original. I hope someone takes that
| up.
| Tade0 wrote:
| Reminds me of the "abandoned" Subaru(or actually Fuji) dealership
| in Malta:
|
| https://www.autoindustriya.com/auto-industry-news/time-capsu...
|
| Only the car in question is much more unique.
| Something1234 wrote:
| Is there an interview with owner or something that explains
| more than it exists and hasn't been updated?
| Tade0 wrote:
| I tried to find any additional information, but apparently
| the owner is not interested in any media attention.
|
| Worst part is I've been to Mosta - the city where the
| dealership is located, was aware of its existence then but
| when I saw it I didn't realise what I was looking at.
|
| I remember thinking "what a weird country to have such old
| cars on display".
|
| Anyway Malta is full of unusual vehicles - it's the only
| European country where I saw kei-cars on the streets.
| sokoloff wrote:
| We sold our classic 1959 Mercedes 220S cabriolet to a buyer
| in Malta. It seemed fishy to us at first (that someone
| would want to ship the car to Malta), but the buyer was
| totally legit, did everything exactly as he promised, and
| has sent us in-progress shots of the further restoration
| work he's done to it.
| gkop wrote:
| I learned to drive (among other adventures) in a '64 220S
| sedan, Mercedes Blue. I believe your Cabriolet must have
| also been one of these special "heckflossen" huh?
| sokoloff wrote:
| Ours was a long body Ponton.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Ponton
|
| http://www.mbzponton.org/pax058/people/sokoloff/sokoloff.
| htm
|
| Somewhere, I have a video of us rolling the odometer over
| back to 00000.0 on a roadtrip back from a meet in
| Pennsylvania (true mileage unknown, but we believe that
| was the first odo rollover for the car).
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