[HN Gopher] Giving More Time for Our Recent Update
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       Giving More Time for Our Recent Update
        
       Author : mzs
       Score  : 47 points
       Date   : 2021-01-15 19:53 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.whatsapp.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.whatsapp.com)
        
       | dwb wrote:
       | It doesn't matter what they say, or what has technically changed.
       | I fundamentally don't trust Facebook, I won't agree to any terms
       | different to the ones I'm already signed up to, and this has
       | nudged me into completely de-Facebooking my life as I was unhappy
       | with their reach and influence as it was.
        
       | devmunchies wrote:
       | they literally chose the worst week of the decade to be strong-
       | handed with users. Now signal and telegram are #1 and #2 on the
       | app store.
        
       | xalava wrote:
       | I actually wonder if that will help people to move to
       | alternatives before what is perceived as a "privacy wall".
        
       | loloquwowndueo wrote:
       | Too little, too late. "More time to review the terms" isn't going
       | to help if I've already determined the terms are bullshit. Even
       | my tech-illiterate relatives were spooked by the change and
       | promptly installed telegram so come whichever date WhatsApp stops
       | working without me accepting the terms, I'll delete its ass and
       | be done with it. Good riddance, been a user since 2009 but this
       | is goodbye :)
        
         | a254613e wrote:
         | What exact terms have changed that are "bullshit"? I see a lot
         | of hate for whatsapp and statement about people switching etc,
         | but nobody can explain what EXACTLY in this privacy policy
         | update has changed to warrant that? From what I can tell
         | absolutely nothing changed for the average users, only those
         | who want to communicate with businesses - but perhaps I'm
         | wrong.
        
           | levosmetalo wrote:
           | Except you won't have a choice not to communicate with
           | business. Businesses will communicate with you, based on your
           | data Facebook collects.
        
             | Spivak wrote:
             | I'm not really sure what the outrage is then? We're
             | providing hosted WhatsApp clients for businesses to use and
             | letting them know if your number is registered on WhatsApp
             | doesn't sound like "end of days abandon ship" nefarious.
        
               | smolder wrote:
               | Fortunately there are alternatives, so it doesn't have to
               | be a big reason to switch. Facebook buying WhatsApp was
               | enough reason for me to refuse installing it, for no
               | other reason than consolidation of services on that level
               | is dangerous. The internet belonging to a few companies
               | is bad.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Johnny555 wrote:
       | Wow, I guess enough people really did switch off of WhatsApp to
       | make a difference.
        
       | lmilcin wrote:
       | Sorry, I don't buy it. Your ToS is binding, not your lousy
       | explanation.
       | 
       | If you cared for my privacy there wouldn't be need for this
       | change in ToS, would it?
        
       | agakshat wrote:
       | The linked page [1] says that Whatsapp does not share contact
       | list with Facebook. I have a lot of anecdotal evidence which
       | suggests otherwise, where adding new contacts would immediately
       | have them show up in my list of suggested friends on Facebook,
       | even without any mutual friends. My experiences are from >3 years
       | ago, though, after when I stopped using Facebook.
       | 
       | [1] https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-
       | privacy/answer...
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | I suspect it's something like Facebook knows both your and
         | their phone number, sees a WhatsApp messages between them, and
         | connects the dots. Technically there wasn't any contact
         | sharing.
        
         | curiousgal wrote:
         | I have the same experience but it could be due to those
         | contacts installing Messenger/Facebook and sharing your number
         | with Facebook:
         | 
         | Contact has your number and shares it with Facebook.
         | 
         | Your Facebook account has your number.
         | 
         | The link is made.
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | Why is the abandonment of users for WhatsApp not generating the
       | same kind of death knell articles like the M1 is doing to Intel
       | that we have seen recently? Are there more people with a vested
       | interest in shorting Intel than there are for Facebook?
       | 
       | If so many users have switched to Signal in such a short time
       | span that it brought the Signal infrastructure to its knees, you
       | would assume there would by naysayers climbing over each other
       | about the end of WhatsApp. If they are there, they have not made
       | it into my news feeds, yet.
        
       | uptown wrote:
       | Translation: We're still going to do all the things you're upset
       | about, but we're bleeding users to Signal and we're sure you'll
       | forget about all of this by May, when we'll make the changes
       | gradually to prevent widespread push-back.
        
         | silentsea90 wrote:
         | Yep, typical Zuck doublespeak. Treating users like they're
         | stupid.
        
         | RandomWorker wrote:
         | Signal is having some issues with gaining 40mil users over the
         | course of 4 days. I'm happy we get some time to switch until
         | signal gets its stuff together.
        
           | yazaddaruvala wrote:
           | Disclaimer: I am a Signal user, no other affiliation.
           | 
           | Please also remember Signal is run on donations:
           | https://signal.org/donate/
           | 
           | With the WhatsApp news and many of my friends moving to
           | Signal, I decided to donate $10 to help them scale. I had
           | never donated to Signal before, but Signal has worked so well
           | for me for over a year that it is definitely worth at least
           | the little I donated.
        
           | ChuckMcM wrote:
           | Yeah, this was a classic success disaster for Signal.
        
       | focusgroup0 wrote:
       | MAU must have dropped off a cliff LOL
        
       | Analemma_ wrote:
       | I wonder if this is a wake-up call for Facebook executives re:
       | how completely toxic their brand has become. Every time criticism
       | of Facebook comes up here, a bunch of people handwave it off with
       | "It's just us HN nerds, 2 billion people don't care", but I'm
       | seeing a whole lot of non-tech people fleeing WhatsApp as fast as
       | they can.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | All of the other "wake-up" calls were ignored, and it did not
         | slow down their anything. I'm guessing this will just be
         | another notch in their belt of blow back survival.
        
           | eitland wrote:
           | I've already uninstalled WhatsApp two - three years ago
           | because none of my friends used it anymore. I have Telegram
           | and Signal, that's enough.
           | 
           | (I reinstalled it briefly last year and used it for ome
           | conversation with a stubborn guy who refused to install any
           | of Signal or Telegram.)
           | 
           | "The future is already here - it's just not evenly
           | distributed." - William Gibson
        
       | ville wrote:
       | "This update does not expand our ability to share data with
       | Facebook.
       | 
       | We're now moving back the date on which people will be asked to
       | review and accept the terms. No one will have their account
       | suspended or deleted on February 8."
       | 
       | Is there an unbiased analysis somewhere about what actually is
       | changed by the new privacy policy?
        
         | avel wrote:
         | The Verge also claims that not much changed from before:
         | https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/15/22233257/whatsapp-privacy...
        
         | sumitgt wrote:
         | Yes, I am confused as well.
         | 
         | Something has to have changed or else they wouldn't need people
         | to accept new terms right?
        
         | netsharc wrote:
         | As much as I dislike Zuck, I think WhatsApp is being honest
         | about what's happening, if you follow the link on that page to
         | https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-privacy/about-...
         | 
         | I.e. it's more about allowing sharing ad viewership data
         | between the platforms (FB, IG, WA). "But WhatsApp has no ads?",
         | well, I guess in February^W March, Zuck's going to pop up on
         | your phone and say "Surprise, motherfucker!".
         | 
         | On the topic of businesses, I remember booking a domestic plane
         | ticket in Asia, giving the travel agency my phone number, and
         | getting WhatsApp messages from the agency's business account. I
         | guess there were no concerns about data privacy laws there...
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | > well, I guess in February^W March, Zuck's going to pop up
           | on your phone and say "Surprise, motherfucker!".
           | 
           | This made me chuckle. I could totally see this becoming a
           | thing, but I'm imagining it like Microsoft's Clippy. You're
           | doing your normal thing using an app, when all of a sudden
           | this caricature of The Zuck pops out of the lower corner and
           | screams "I see you are looking at a post from someone in your
           | friends list. Wouldn't you rather look at this <insert random
           | thing> instead?" The harder/faster you swipe to make him go
           | away the more insistent he gets.
        
       | throwaway47634 wrote:
       | I think if WhatsApp were serious about "we don't share your
       | contacts with Facebook", they would put it in the privacy policy
       | [1].
       | 
       | As it stands, the policy refers to an FAQ entry [2] which leaves
       | this almost completely open-ended: "The information we share with
       | the other Facebook Companies [...] may include other information
       | identified in the Privacy Policy section entitled 'Information We
       | Collect'"
       | 
       | That is, anything identified as information WhatsApp collects
       | (including contact data) could be shared with Facebook.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/updates/privacy-policy [2]:
       | https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-privacy/what-i...
        
       | ville wrote:
       | The statement "This update does not expand our ability to share
       | data with Facebook." seems to be perhaps carefully worded based
       | on a technicality that _they_ , WhatsApp, are not the ones
       | sharing the business conversations with Facebook, but instead
       | Facebook is giving the businesses themselves tools to share them
       | with FB for ad targeting.
       | 
       | From earlier FB announcement
       | (https://about.fb.com/news/2020/10/privacy-matters-
       | whatsapp-b...): "When Facebook acts as a hosting provider to a
       | business, it will use the messages it processes on behalf of and
       | at the instruction of the business. This is an industry standard
       | practice among many companies that offer hosting solutions. While
       | Facebook will not automatically use messages to inform the ads
       | that a user sees, as is always the case, businesses will be able
       | to use chats they receive for their own marketing purposes, which
       | may include advertising on Facebook."
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-15 23:01 UTC)