[HN Gopher] Clojure Core
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       Clojure Core
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 139 points
       Date   : 2021-01-15 19:00 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.fogus.me)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.fogus.me)
        
       | Gollapalli wrote:
       | Congrats to Fogus! I've long enjoyed using Clojure. It's a good
       | language.
        
       | dotemacs wrote:
       | Wow, two cool Clojure related things happened today! This and and
       | a sneak peak at ClojureDart:
       | https://twitter.com/cgrand/status/1350063059864346624
        
       | harperlee wrote:
       | This is great, in my opinion there are some things that shouldn't
       | be sped up (and clojure has those very well managed), but there
       | are quite a long list of topics on which Alex Miller needed more
       | hands.
       | 
       | Will insideclojure remain a sort-of personal blog of Alex, or
       | will it be an unofficial dev blog of core?
        
         | kgwxd wrote:
         | If it becomes an unofficial dev blog I hope we still get the
         | occasional leads to good music.
        
       | codemac wrote:
       | Clojure has come up a lot more frequently on HN than in the past.
       | 
       | I'm curious if there is a particular larger project that is using
       | clojure that's driving a lot of this?
       | 
       | Or particular JVM application like Kafka?
        
         | Royalaid wrote:
         | Cognitect, the company that shepherds and maintains Clojure,
         | has joined Nubank
         | (https://cognitect.com/blog/2020/07/23/Cognitect-Joins-Nubank)
         | and so they are starting to flesh and grow the core team as
         | well as fund some of the open source projects/devs that the
         | ecosystem relies on
         | (https://cognitect.com/blog/2020/12/15/sponsoring-open-
         | source...).
         | 
         | Add to this a lot of people are changing jobs and pushing for
         | using more alternative languages or exploring new languages and
         | as a result many people are building in what they want instead
         | of what they are forced to use at work. The sibling comment
         | about roam is a good example as they have had a lot of press
         | lately.
        
         | ithrow wrote:
         | Lisps are cool, Clojure is cool but that's about it, just like
         | Scheme is cool.
         | 
         | HN probably has the biggest crowd of devs that know (and like)
         | Lisps, even if they don't use it for everyday things. Anything
         | about Lisps gets upvoted quickly but if you look at Clojure
         | posts here in HN, you'll see that all the comments don't really
         | have any substance (also, look at the point to comments ratio
         | of Clojure posts.).
        
         | iLemming wrote:
         | At least a dozen big companies are running on large Clojure
         | codebases: Apple, Cisco, Walmart Labs, Funding Circle, Nubank,
         | Metabase, CircleCI, Grammarly, to name a few. Many smaller
         | companies built their entire businesses using Clojure stack.
         | 
         | The days when Clojure was just "a toy to impress your friends"
         | are long gone. It's a mature ecosystem for the serious craft.
         | 
         | Today it's the most widely used FP language; it has gained
         | popularity and doing better than OCaml, Erlang/Elixir, Elm,
         | Haskell, F#, and even Scala.
         | 
         | Clojure is slowly but steadily growing. Without any support
         | from the big players. I think the core Clojure team has fewer
         | people than teams at Facebook and Google for front-end
         | libraries like React and Angular. Podcasts are being recorded,
         | books published, conferences organized.
         | 
         | Skeptics often criticize "not growing, small but very vocal
         | community", they call it "a cult of Rich Hickey" and pronounce
         | the language to be dying. The truth is - many companies
         | realizing the incredible pragmatism of ideas behind Clojure.
        
           | nojito wrote:
           | >Today it's the most widely used FP language; it has gained
           | popularity and doing better than OCaml, Erlang/Elixir, Elm,
           | Haskell, F#, and even Scala.
           | 
           | I find it very hard to believe that clojure is beating out
           | F#. F# has been included in the .NET runtime. Anyone who has
           | c# automagically has f# available to them.
           | 
           | Do you have a source to your claim?
        
           | dominotw wrote:
           | > The truth is - many companies realizing the incredible
           | pragmatism of ideas behind Clojure.
           | 
           | My employer is moving away from cljoure after 100% of the
           | stack on clojure/clojurescript for over 10 yrs. All the
           | companies that you mentioned ( with the exception of nubank)
           | adopted Clojure years ago. Curious to know if there are new
           | companies picking clojure, your comment seems to imply so.
        
             | pivo wrote:
             | > My employer is moving away from cljoure
             | 
             | I'd be interested in why that is if you have a moment to
             | write a bit about it.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | codemac wrote:
           | Right, and Google was using Golang extensively internally -
           | but that doesn't mean it made the impact that docker's use
           | did.
           | 
           | I was curious about specific products/projects, seems like
           | you may be able to answer my question. Do you know of any
           | large product/projects in particular that are written in
           | clojure and very popular?
        
             | jdminhbg wrote:
             | CircleCI is a Clojure system, for one example.
        
           | uDontKnowMe wrote:
           | I follow Clojure quite closely and am a huge booster of it, I
           | even donate to a few projects, but I do think that the
           | attitude of the community seems a bit too dismissive of
           | questions about its adoption in the face of what seem to be
           | pretty clear trends. A quick look on any job search site will
           | show you that there are more positions asking for Elixir, and
           | about 20x as many postings mentioning Scala. Of the positions
           | I find on LinkedIn, even maybe half of the positions
           | mentioning Clojure are mentioning it generally as in
           | "experience with FP languages like Haskell/Elm/Clojure/Scala
           | is a plus" rather than directly seeking Clojure devs. It's
           | also lost about 80% of its search traffic in the last 3 years
           | according to Google Trends (https://trends.google.com/trends/
           | explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F0...).
           | 
           | It looks like despite how awesome Clojure is, there is
           | something keeping it from achieving growth in adoption and
           | the community should look at how to address that rather than
           | look the other way.
        
         | afhammad wrote:
         | Some recent/notable examples:
         | 
         | https://roamresearch.com is built with Clojure(Script).
         | 
         | https://storm.apache.org was written in Clojure but more
         | recently re-written in Java to encourage OS contribution
        
       | delish wrote:
       | Hiring fogus to work on Clojure sounds great to me. Two thoughts:
       | 
       | - I'd love to know if this was enabled by Nubank's purchase of
       | Cognitect. It's none of my business; I'm just curious.
       | 
       | - As an enjoyer of the history of programming languages, I'm
       | always going to be glad when anyone who has read their lisp joins
       | the Clojure team. I bought Kogge off fogus's (and Stanislav's)
       | recommendation. http://blog.fogus.me/2012/07/25/some-lisp-books-
       | and-then-som...
        
       | Kototama wrote:
       | Congratulations to Fogus, a very inspiring person. Will this
       | affect the number of books he reads per year :-) ?
        
       | Scarbutt wrote:
       | Funny, the only reason this is news is because Clojure and its
       | ecosystem has become completely stagnated, you can only survive
       | through the painful process of doing interop with Java libraries
       | all the time, which defeats the whole purpose of using the
       | language. So of course, any resources pour into that is going to
       | make what's left of the vocal minority scream more.
        
         | dustingetz wrote:
         | Actually pretty much everything important is exposed in
         | portable CLJC now, so not really any interop for userland. For
         | webdev at least
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-15 23:01 UTC)