[HN Gopher] Clojure Core
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Clojure Core
Author : tosh
Score : 139 points
Date : 2021-01-15 19:00 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.fogus.me)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.fogus.me)
| Gollapalli wrote:
| Congrats to Fogus! I've long enjoyed using Clojure. It's a good
| language.
| dotemacs wrote:
| Wow, two cool Clojure related things happened today! This and and
| a sneak peak at ClojureDart:
| https://twitter.com/cgrand/status/1350063059864346624
| harperlee wrote:
| This is great, in my opinion there are some things that shouldn't
| be sped up (and clojure has those very well managed), but there
| are quite a long list of topics on which Alex Miller needed more
| hands.
|
| Will insideclojure remain a sort-of personal blog of Alex, or
| will it be an unofficial dev blog of core?
| kgwxd wrote:
| If it becomes an unofficial dev blog I hope we still get the
| occasional leads to good music.
| codemac wrote:
| Clojure has come up a lot more frequently on HN than in the past.
|
| I'm curious if there is a particular larger project that is using
| clojure that's driving a lot of this?
|
| Or particular JVM application like Kafka?
| Royalaid wrote:
| Cognitect, the company that shepherds and maintains Clojure,
| has joined Nubank
| (https://cognitect.com/blog/2020/07/23/Cognitect-Joins-Nubank)
| and so they are starting to flesh and grow the core team as
| well as fund some of the open source projects/devs that the
| ecosystem relies on
| (https://cognitect.com/blog/2020/12/15/sponsoring-open-
| source...).
|
| Add to this a lot of people are changing jobs and pushing for
| using more alternative languages or exploring new languages and
| as a result many people are building in what they want instead
| of what they are forced to use at work. The sibling comment
| about roam is a good example as they have had a lot of press
| lately.
| ithrow wrote:
| Lisps are cool, Clojure is cool but that's about it, just like
| Scheme is cool.
|
| HN probably has the biggest crowd of devs that know (and like)
| Lisps, even if they don't use it for everyday things. Anything
| about Lisps gets upvoted quickly but if you look at Clojure
| posts here in HN, you'll see that all the comments don't really
| have any substance (also, look at the point to comments ratio
| of Clojure posts.).
| iLemming wrote:
| At least a dozen big companies are running on large Clojure
| codebases: Apple, Cisco, Walmart Labs, Funding Circle, Nubank,
| Metabase, CircleCI, Grammarly, to name a few. Many smaller
| companies built their entire businesses using Clojure stack.
|
| The days when Clojure was just "a toy to impress your friends"
| are long gone. It's a mature ecosystem for the serious craft.
|
| Today it's the most widely used FP language; it has gained
| popularity and doing better than OCaml, Erlang/Elixir, Elm,
| Haskell, F#, and even Scala.
|
| Clojure is slowly but steadily growing. Without any support
| from the big players. I think the core Clojure team has fewer
| people than teams at Facebook and Google for front-end
| libraries like React and Angular. Podcasts are being recorded,
| books published, conferences organized.
|
| Skeptics often criticize "not growing, small but very vocal
| community", they call it "a cult of Rich Hickey" and pronounce
| the language to be dying. The truth is - many companies
| realizing the incredible pragmatism of ideas behind Clojure.
| nojito wrote:
| >Today it's the most widely used FP language; it has gained
| popularity and doing better than OCaml, Erlang/Elixir, Elm,
| Haskell, F#, and even Scala.
|
| I find it very hard to believe that clojure is beating out
| F#. F# has been included in the .NET runtime. Anyone who has
| c# automagically has f# available to them.
|
| Do you have a source to your claim?
| dominotw wrote:
| > The truth is - many companies realizing the incredible
| pragmatism of ideas behind Clojure.
|
| My employer is moving away from cljoure after 100% of the
| stack on clojure/clojurescript for over 10 yrs. All the
| companies that you mentioned ( with the exception of nubank)
| adopted Clojure years ago. Curious to know if there are new
| companies picking clojure, your comment seems to imply so.
| pivo wrote:
| > My employer is moving away from cljoure
|
| I'd be interested in why that is if you have a moment to
| write a bit about it.
| [deleted]
| codemac wrote:
| Right, and Google was using Golang extensively internally -
| but that doesn't mean it made the impact that docker's use
| did.
|
| I was curious about specific products/projects, seems like
| you may be able to answer my question. Do you know of any
| large product/projects in particular that are written in
| clojure and very popular?
| jdminhbg wrote:
| CircleCI is a Clojure system, for one example.
| uDontKnowMe wrote:
| I follow Clojure quite closely and am a huge booster of it, I
| even donate to a few projects, but I do think that the
| attitude of the community seems a bit too dismissive of
| questions about its adoption in the face of what seem to be
| pretty clear trends. A quick look on any job search site will
| show you that there are more positions asking for Elixir, and
| about 20x as many postings mentioning Scala. Of the positions
| I find on LinkedIn, even maybe half of the positions
| mentioning Clojure are mentioning it generally as in
| "experience with FP languages like Haskell/Elm/Clojure/Scala
| is a plus" rather than directly seeking Clojure devs. It's
| also lost about 80% of its search traffic in the last 3 years
| according to Google Trends (https://trends.google.com/trends/
| explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F0...).
|
| It looks like despite how awesome Clojure is, there is
| something keeping it from achieving growth in adoption and
| the community should look at how to address that rather than
| look the other way.
| afhammad wrote:
| Some recent/notable examples:
|
| https://roamresearch.com is built with Clojure(Script).
|
| https://storm.apache.org was written in Clojure but more
| recently re-written in Java to encourage OS contribution
| delish wrote:
| Hiring fogus to work on Clojure sounds great to me. Two thoughts:
|
| - I'd love to know if this was enabled by Nubank's purchase of
| Cognitect. It's none of my business; I'm just curious.
|
| - As an enjoyer of the history of programming languages, I'm
| always going to be glad when anyone who has read their lisp joins
| the Clojure team. I bought Kogge off fogus's (and Stanislav's)
| recommendation. http://blog.fogus.me/2012/07/25/some-lisp-books-
| and-then-som...
| Kototama wrote:
| Congratulations to Fogus, a very inspiring person. Will this
| affect the number of books he reads per year :-) ?
| Scarbutt wrote:
| Funny, the only reason this is news is because Clojure and its
| ecosystem has become completely stagnated, you can only survive
| through the painful process of doing interop with Java libraries
| all the time, which defeats the whole purpose of using the
| language. So of course, any resources pour into that is going to
| make what's left of the vocal minority scream more.
| dustingetz wrote:
| Actually pretty much everything important is exposed in
| portable CLJC now, so not really any interop for userland. For
| webdev at least
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