[HN Gopher] Open Letter from Laura Poitras
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       Open Letter from Laura Poitras
        
       Author : jashkenas
       Score  : 108 points
       Date   : 2021-01-14 21:41 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.praxisfilms.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.praxisfilms.org)
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | She pretty much outed herself though by using her own computer to
       | mail the document to the intercept. That the intercept then went
       | and tried to verify the veracity of the documents does not give
       | them much credit either, they didn't have to forward the actual
       | scans, there would have been other ways of verifying that the
       | documents were real.
       | 
       | Finally, this was clearly careless on the part of the Intercept,
       | no proof has ever been given that this was malicious, and I'm not
       | seeing any here.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | It has been some years since I read about the original document
         | leak, but as I recall, she shared documents from her workplace
         | that either had printer steganography ID codes embedded into
         | them (images in a raster scan of a paper document), or some
         | form of digital stego IDs in electronic documents.
         | 
         | Basically not very different from how major motion picture
         | studios embed some sort of unique ID code into the compressed
         | video files given out pre-release, to reviewers (and workprints
         | sent to 3rd party CGI studios) so that they can track down a
         | leak.
         | 
         | None of which Winner was aware of the existence at the time.
         | Some of those codes made it through to the reporting, and were
         | published to the Internet, making it fairly easy for federal
         | law enforcement to track her down.
         | 
         | I have also not seen any information saying that the
         | journalists who received the documents, definitively were, or
         | were not aware of the presence of the ID numbers stegoed into
         | the documents.
         | 
         | https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/06/the-m...
         | 
         | https://blog.erratasec.com/2017/06/how-intercept-outed-reali...
         | 
         | On a more meta level, it's a hard problem to solve with
         | handling and publishing leaked documents, because on one side
         | you have the vast resources of the NSA and the US intelligence
         | community coming up with new steganographic and other methods
         | to embed tracking ID numbers into documents. The full size,
         | scale, budget and weight of various federal agencies'
         | "counterintelligence" efforts.
         | 
         | And on the other side you have investigative journalists who do
         | not have PhD level degrees in math/cryptography, and do not
         | have the technical resources to definitely search through a
         | huge pile of documents and say with 100% confidence that any
         | possible tracking IDs have been stripped out.
         | 
         | I don't think I could reasonably expect a person from a
         | journalism/liberal arts degree educational and work experience
         | background to identify steganography.
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | From the NYTimes article that Poitras links to, this really
       | sounds to me like a perfect conjunction of mutual screwups on
       | both sides. Winner didn't know that the documents had a
       | stegonographic ID embedded into them, and the people at the
       | Intercept who hastily published high-resolution raster scans of
       | them didn't know or care either. Really seems like there's 50%
       | blame to go around on both sides.
       | 
       | "Ms. Winner, then 25, had been listening to the site's podcast.
       | She printed out a secret report on Russian cyberattacks on
       | American voting software that seemed to address some of Mr.
       | Greenwald's doubts about Russian interference in the 2016
       | campaign and mailed it to The Intercept's Washington, D.C., post
       | office box in early May.
       | 
       | The Intercept scrambled to publish a story on the report,
       | ignoring the most basic security precautions. The lead reporter
       | on the story sent a copy of the document, which contained a
       | crease showing it had been printed out, to the N.S.A. media
       | affairs office, all but identifying Ms. Winner as the leaker."
        
       | nr2x wrote:
       | Meanwhile, Barton Gellman, who also worked with Snowden, has kept
       | churning out great reporting [0], while Greenwald and Poitras
       | kept trying to ride on the coattails of Snowden long past the
       | point of relevance.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-
       | if...
        
         | kome wrote:
         | Greenwald did a quite an amazing job with Bolsonaro.
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/25/world/americas/glenn-gree...
        
           | nr2x wrote:
           | Fair, that's a good point.
        
             | yepnopemaybe wrote:
             | Greenwald's work exposing the corruption of Sergio Moro
             | dwarfs his work exposing the NSA. Essentially, he obtained
             | documents that proved Moro stage managed the prosecution's
             | arguments in the case that banned incumbent President Lula
             | da Silva from seeking reelection. This cleared the field
             | for Bolsenaro, who put Moro in charge of the federal
             | judiciary. Where Greenwald's reporting on NSA changed
             | neither policy or public opinion, his reporting on Moro has
             | transformed the political situation in Brazil and caused
             | Moro to resign.
        
         | jancsika wrote:
         | At least wrt Greenwald, the upshot of your comment is that you
         | don't pay attention to news out of Brazil. He's done some
         | pretty important investigative stories there, one of which they
         | tried to indict him for. None of those stories had to do with
         | the Snowden leaks.
         | 
         | He also continues to rewrite/update the same plodding OpEd
         | about how no one should forget that Democratic apparatchiks and
         | pundits are also hypocritical, self-serving and untrustworthy
         | asshats. Not the most incisive journalism by any metric, but
         | again unrelated to Snowden leaks.
        
         | DevKoala wrote:
         | How is this relevant? Poitras is highlighting that an informant
         | was not protected accordingly, and that the Intercept is no
         | longer a trustworthy resource.
        
           | nr2x wrote:
           | I think the Intercept discredited themselves as a place for
           | sources to go after Reality Winner got arrested, so I've
           | never seen the point of the enterprise past that event.
           | Otherwise, my point is more she's complaining about being
           | fired, but as far as I can tell, she hasn't produced much
           | reporting. I still respect what she and Greenwald did, but I
           | think Gellman has actually continued doing good work whereas
           | they haven't impressed me as much past the one big scoop.
        
       | kome wrote:
       | For context: this follow the departure of the other co-founder of
       | the The Intercept, Glenn Greenwald.
       | https://greenwald.substack.com/p/my-resignation-from-the-int...
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | > "horrifyingly, took the lead in falsely branding the Hunter
         | Biden archive as "Russian disinformation""
         | 
         | Calling it an "archive" is laughable at best, the provenance of
         | the supposed Hunter Biden laptop which was left in the custody
         | of a randomly chosen computer repair shop guy who has ties to
         | Giuliani and the Trump apparatus is clear. The entire thing was
         | an intelligence plant that Greenwald swallowed hook, line and
         | sinker.
         | 
         | There's a _reason_ why dozens of highly respected, experienced
         | investigative journalists took a good look at the information
         | supposedly retrieved from this  "laptop" and decided not to
         | proceed with publishing any of it. Because they didn't want to
         | embarrass themselves by publishing obvious fabrications.
         | 
         | From USA Today:
         | 
         | "John Paul Mac Isaac -- owner of The Mac Shop -- told reporters
         | that a man who identified himself as Hunter Biden brought three
         | liquid-damaged laptops to his repair shop in April 2019, per
         | the Delaware News Journal.
         | 
         | The man left one laptop for repair and never returned to
         | retrieve it.
         | 
         | Eventually, Mac Isaac gave a copy of the laptop's hard drive to
         | Brian Costello, an attorney for Rudy Giuliani, who is the
         | personal lawyer for President Donald Trump. Mac Isaac said he
         | turned the hard drive over to Costello because of fears for his
         | safety."
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | DevKoala wrote:
           | What are you talking about? The story was worth reporting and
           | it wasn't until the election was over and verified that major
           | news sources decided to push it to the public.
           | 
           | https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/09/politics/hunter-biden-tax-
           | inv...
           | 
           | Greenwald was right in calling the bias.
        
             | walrus01 wrote:
             | So either the "laptop" was given to Giuliani, or to the
             | custody of the FBI, which is it? If it was given to the
             | FBI, how did Giuliani come into possession of a large
             | number of files supposedly retrieved from it, and share
             | them with any journalist who would listen?
        
               | DevKoala wrote:
               | The laptop was given to the FBI first and then someone
               | from the FBI leaked it to Giuliani after the
               | investigation was not moving. Once it became public a
               | senate committee verified the validity of the evidence
               | and the investigation made it to the public.
        
               | mthoms wrote:
               | If I recall, it was the repair shop owner who shared an
               | image of the hard drive with Giuliani's people. He
               | thought the FBI wasn't doing anything about it.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | haroldp wrote:
               | Digital data is not hard to duplicate. Both can be true.
        
               | fit2rule wrote:
               | The repair shop made disk images (part of the repair
               | process), then gave the laptop to the FBI, and then
               | shared the disk images.
        
             | ardy42 wrote:
             | > What are you talking about? The story was worth reporting
             | and it wasn't until the election was over and verified that
             | major news sources decided to push it to the public.
             | 
             | "Hunter Biden" is not one monolithic story. IIRC,
             | Giuliani's story was all about that laptop (and trying to
             | make it look like _Joe_ Biden was involved), but that
             | laptop may in fact have _nothing to do_ with this tax
             | probe. The existence of the latter doesn 't necessarily
             | validate the former.
             | 
             | According to the story you posted:
             | 
             | > Hints of the investigation emerged after President Donald
             | Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, helped
             | orchestrate news stories centered on a laptop purported to
             | belong to Hunter Biden and said to include his business
             | documents and other personal material.
             | 
             | > The FBI took possession of the laptop in late 2019,
             | according to a computer repairman in Delaware who showed
             | reporters a copy of a subpoena. The subpoena is real,
             | according to people briefed on the matter, but the FBI and
             | prosecutors in Delaware have refused to confirm the
             | existence of the investigation.
             | 
             | > It's unclear whether the laptop's contents are relevant
             | to the ongoing federal probe and whether investigators can
             | even use them, given potential chain of custody
             | requirements for evidence.
             | 
             | Pay attention to that last paragraph.
        
               | DevKoala wrote:
               | It was actually Hunter's business partner Bobulinsky that
               | went on Fox News to claim that he was working for Biden,
               | and first met him during a scheduled time that has been
               | redacted from Biden's public calendar.
               | 
               | No mainstream press with access to Joe Biden ever dared
               | to ask Joe a question so that he could at least defend
               | himself from the allegations.
        
             | netsharc wrote:
             | From your link: > It's unclear whether the laptop's
             | contents are relevant to the ongoing federal probe and
             | whether investigators can even use them, given potential
             | chain of custody requirements for evidence.
             | 
             | It really doesn't pass the smell test that it was actually
             | Hunter's laptop. Unless he's majorly stupid (I suppose
             | that's a possibility...), why would he just choose a random
             | computer repair store and leave his laptop(s) there.
             | According to snopes.com, the owner didn't even see Hunter
             | drop off the laptop:
             | https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/10/15/hunter-biden-
             | laptop-g...
             | 
             | If I were Hunter Biden, I would certainly have connections
             | who I can call and ask about fixing a laptop which has
             | secret information, and I would check that they're not a
             | Trump supporter first. OTOH, if it really was Hunter Biden
             | and he wasn't an idiot, then him giving the laptop to some
             | stranger would mean he was sure there were no secrets on
             | that laptop. (Then again, people don't understand tech and
             | he might've thought deleting a file removes all traces of
             | it).
             | 
             | But Twitter and Facebook censoring the story isn't that
             | neutral either, it's obvious who they wanted to win the
             | election.
        
               | DevKoala wrote:
               | Hunter has suffered through documented periods of crack
               | addiction and it was during one of these episodes that he
               | lost the laptop.
        
               | netsharc wrote:
               | Got a source for your assertion?
        
       | f430 wrote:
       | I just don't think that enough people are paying attention to the
       | disappearing freedom of information and expression in America.
       | 
       | I believe that it has reached a point of no return and that you
       | should expect what you saw in China to be a precusor to what will
       | come to America now.
       | 
       | Congratulations! You've played yourself America.
        
         | DevKoala wrote:
         | Seriously, these concerns shouldn't be a partisan issue, but
         | today everything is just so tribalistic. We are laying the
         | floor for potential bad actors to remain unchallenged.
        
           | f430 wrote:
           | We are going to have fabulously rich 1% more than ever in the
           | history of human kind, free from all checks and bounds, they
           | can just dictate what is "fake news" or "alt-right" or
           | whatever taboo label.
           | 
           | Even if we ever saw Jeffrey Epstein's tapes, a huge chunk of
           | the population would deny it as "fake news" because it was
           | reported by an "media outlet with poor reputation".
        
       | mrkstu wrote:
       | Don't feed conspiracists by shutting down legitimate reporting,
       | don't protect the powerful from inquiry, just because they are on
       | 'your side,' don't feel the need to de-platform those with a
       | record of truth-telling, when they go after those you admire. Let
       | the muckrakers muck as much as they can and we'll all get closer
       | to the truth, however uncomfortable it may be.
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | > Glenn Greenwald
       | 
       | Oh yeah, the guy who decided that the Giuliani/Randomly chosen
       | computer repair shop/Hunter Biden laptop story was of such earth-
       | shattering, incredible importance that he chose it as the hill he
       | wanted to die upon, resigning from The Intercept in protest
       | because the editors wouldn't let him publish stories about it.
       | 
       | Seriously? Greenwald has lost all credibility.
       | 
       | https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=giuliani+...
        
         | seppin wrote:
         | Yes, but Glenn and Snowden are deities on HN. Your comment
         | won't stand for long.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Please don't post unsubstantive comments.
           | 
           | Edit: you've been using HN primarily (exclusively?) for
           | political and ideological battle. We ban accounts that do
           | that, regardless of what ideology they're battling for (and
           | regardless of overgeneralizations about "deities"). We have
           | to, because this is the #1 thing that destroys HN for its
           | intended purpose of curious conversation, and because raging
           | hellfires have burning all over this site lately. You've also
           | broken the site guidelines egregiously and repeatedly in
           | other ways, e.g.
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25694321. That's not
           | cool.
           | 
           | I've therefore banned your account. If you don't want to be
           | banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give
           | us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the
           | future. They are here:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
           | 
           | No, we don't agree with whoever your political adversaries
           | are. We're merely trying to maintain some semblance of an
           | _interesting_ internet forum, or at least to stave off
           | decline: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=stave%20by:dang&dateRa
           | nge=all&....
        
         | monocasa wrote:
         | I mean, he left because as a founder of the intercept, he had a
         | contract item that editors couldn't deny him the ability to
         | publish in the intercept on the grounds of content. When they
         | told him that he couldn't publish anything that could be
         | construed as against Biden, he left as they had broken their
         | contract with him.
        
           | edlebert wrote:
           | Yes. IIRC they were going to let him publish the story, he
           | just had to remove everything about Joe Biden, lol.
        
         | greenburger wrote:
         | The letter only mentions Greenwald to appropriately credit his
         | reporting along with hers for the founding basis of The
         | Intercept. Otherwise the mention of his departure from The
         | Intercept is notably absent.
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | Lack of mention of the manner and specific reason for his
           | departure are highly suspicious in and of themselves.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Please don't take HN threads on flamewar tangents. Jumping into
         | the nearest lava pit immediately upon some provocation is, to
         | quote my son when he was two, "what we not do".
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
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