[HN Gopher] Aquafaba
___________________________________________________________________
Aquafaba
Author : david-given
Score : 176 points
Date : 2021-01-14 21:29 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (aquafaba.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (aquafaba.com)
| tunnuz wrote:
| Vegan partner loves it for meringues.
| hirundo wrote:
| It's widely recommended in vegan circles to discard bean soaking
| water. Here's an example:
|
| > So after the beans have soaked for a while, the soaking water
| now contains these elements that you are trying to eliminate by
| soaking the beans in the first place. And this is why the bean
| water is discarded. So it is best to drain the water and rinse
| the beans thoroughly before cooking. --
| https://www.vegancoach.com/why-discard-bean-soaking-water.ht...
|
| Anyone know whether that's right or wrong? Does it depend on the
| bean? Maybe the soaking water is a problem but not the cooking
| water?
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| AFAIK the main reason for soaking beans is to save cooking time
| and allow for even cooking. It may absorb some of the
| indigestible sugars, but I'm not positive. They won't hurt you,
| regardless, though they might cause embarrassment.
|
| Typically the liquid used is from canned chickpeas, which have
| been cooked, which ought to diminish those sugars.
|
| If you're cooking beans at home, you might want to add carrot
| and onion peels for flavoring the beans. The resulting broth
| will be very flavorful and worth saving, but less useful for
| baking, since it's not neutrally flavored.
| ar-nelson wrote:
| This is a misconception about what aquafaba is. Aquafaba is not
| the soaking water, it's the cooking water.
|
| My usual process for cooking chickpeas is:
|
| - Soak overnight in a bowl. Throw this water out.
|
| - Boil for several hours in new water. Save this water, and
| boil it down further to make aquafaba.
|
| Not all chickpea recipes allow for this; for example, falafel
| is usually made with chickpeas that have been soaked but not
| boiled.
| warent wrote:
| I'm not sure if this is what it's referring to, but I've never
| used raw beans for aquafaba. It's precooked beans that are
| soaking in water that make the aquafaba. By that point
| hopefully you've already cooked the nasties out of the bean
| [deleted]
| jedimastert wrote:
| Mostly the "aquafaba" that I see referred to (admittedly in
| passing most of the time) is the liquid from canned chickpeas.
| tgb wrote:
| This is an interesting point. I've taken to cooking beans from
| dry in a pressure cooker and usually in a "meal" that gets
| cooked with it at the same time. So I can't discard the water.
| The toxins in uncooked beans are real, but does the heat of
| cooking destroy them? It looks like the answer is yes [1],
| which says that "No significant lectin changes were observed
| after soaking the beans" but that the lectin levels are
| undetectable in cooked beans. (I.e. cooking, not soaking is the
| important part.) That does leave your question in somewhat of a
| limbo: maybe the water hasn't absorbed any of the lectin and so
| is safe?
|
| Interestingly, [1] says:
|
| > It appears that cooking beans to the point where they might
| be considered edible is more than sufficient to destroy
| virtually all of the hemagglutinating activity of lectins.
|
| But then the authors seem somewhat puzzled as to why anyone is
| reported symptoms of lectin poisoning - who's eating beans that
| are inedible in texture and hardness? They hypothesize raw food
| junkie's in salads.
|
| EDIT: I'm more skeptical now that any conclusions can be drawn
| from this paper. They mention leaching as an important factor
| at one point, so maybe heat just makes leaching happen at an
| appreciable rate. And your uncooked water might still have
| lectin at levels they couldn't observe (since we're looking at
| it indirectly by only measuring the bean's content) and still
| be toxic. You only need 5 raw kidney beans to have symptoms.
|
| [1]
| https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2621....
| gamegod wrote:
| Does anyone know if that liquid is jam packed full of Bisphenol
| A, since it's stewing in direct contact with the edges of the
| can? I'm always suspicious of that.
| tkzed49 wrote:
| all of my Kroger brand cans state that they have BPA-free
| liners, so it ought to be possible to avoid this if you want
| to.
| foldr wrote:
| The holy grail for me is aquafaba-based macarons that work
| reliably. I've managed to pull them off once, but aquafaba
| meringue is much less tolerant of higher cooking temperatures
| than egg white and is prone to exploding into a foamy mess.
| abecode wrote:
| I used to live with a Mexican family and one of the first non-
| milk foods they fed the babies was the water drained from cooked
| beans. I'm not sure if it could be used to cook or make cocktails
| but it was somewhat thick.
| legitster wrote:
| Not to knock the wonderful developments that have happened in
| plant-based foods in the last decade, but this really makes me
| appreciate the egg all the more. Some of the egg alternatives
| seem to require a degree in chemical engineering to get right.
|
| Between the many magical uses of the yolk and white (both
| separately and together), you appreciate how versatile a
| collection of fats and proteins it really is. And how user
| friendly it is. It even comes in it's own packaging!
| m-p-3 wrote:
| I'm glad with all those development into egg-free alternatives.
| My wife is severely allergic to eggs, and this really opened
| the door to produce she couldn't never have eaten otherwise.
| Lobosque wrote:
| Had to read everything to realize this isn't some new open source
| software.
| davio wrote:
| Now you have the name for your new JS framework
| ar-nelson wrote:
| I've used aquafaba in cooking a lot, mostly to avoid using so
| many eggs in baking. And while I've had great results for a few
| specific recipes, I've also found that it's not a universal egg
| replacement, and it's hard to tell which recipes it will and
| won't work in.
|
| I bake a lot of gluten-free and grain-free breads and biscuits,
| and aquafaba is a great egg replacement in these. Sometimes it
| even produces a better texture. But in other recipes, like
| cookies, it doesn't work at all; the dough loses its shape
| completely and deflates into a puddle.
|
| I've also read about using aquafaba to make meringue or mousse,
| but I haven't had good luck with that so far. The chickpea taste
| is strong, and does not go with sugar at all.
|
| I haven't tried using any beans other than chickpeas. Maybe it
| would work better with different beans.
| Rooster61 wrote:
| Huh, chocolate chip cookies are the main thing I DO make with
| aquafaba. I wonder what we are doing differently on that dish?
| They don't come out as perfect cookies for me (they definitely
| don't brown as much), but consistency wise is pretty much spot
| on.
|
| I loosely base my recipe on the one Babish came up with on his
| channel.
| lozaning wrote:
| If I had to guess, they're not refrigerating their dough.
| Chilling dough for 24 hours in the fridge before baking is a
| game changer for cookies.
| ar-nelson wrote:
| I should look into this, maybe refrigerating would help.
| The recipe I tried was an unusual one (an olive oil dark
| chocolate chip cookie recipe), and I had made it
| successfully with eggs before, but trying aquafaba ruined
| it.
| Rooster61 wrote:
| Refrigerating would definitely help, but tbh I usually
| stick it straight in the oven after dishing it out.
|
| I'd definitely try chocolate chip if you haven't. Playing
| with other kinds of oils and odd ingredients would
| probably change it a bit too much for aquafaba to work
| correctly.
| S_A_P wrote:
| Maybe throw in some Xanthan Gum. Ive had some good results
| using that...
| VectorLock wrote:
| Can you give examples of things that it gives a better texture
| in?
| ar-nelson wrote:
| I have two recipes that use aquafaba: a grain-free biscuit
| recipe and a grain-free flatbread recipe. A lot of gluten-
| free breads use eggs because they need a binder to replace
| the gluten, but the eggs taste, well, eggy. The aquafaba
| makes it lighter, and not eggy, so it seems more like actual
| bread.
| bananaoomarang wrote:
| Not disputing this (perhaps different brand/type/recipe) but I
| have made aquafaba meringues before and was very impressed,
| didn't taste of chickpeas at all to me, just like a meringue
| texture/sugar wise without the 'egginess'.
| ar-nelson wrote:
| Yes, I think the amount of chickpea taste varies based on how
| much the aquafaba is cooked down. (I always make it by
| boiling dry chickpeas; I don't use canned.) With some more
| experimentation I can probably get it to work.
| saltypal wrote:
| This gives me some hope.
|
| I once made vegan tiramisu for a friend using aquafaba made
| from boiled dry chickpeas, and the sweet/chickpea flavor
| tasted exactly like the worst kind of vomit-burp
| imaginable. It is one of probably 2 or 3 of several
| thousand meals I've ever cooked that I threw directly into
| the bin after having another person confirm the flavor.
| seanhandley wrote:
| Same experience when we tried it. The flavour was not good.
| Kluny wrote:
| Yeah, different egg substitutes apply depending on what you
| make. Tofu replaces egg in stir fry - flax replaces it in
| banana bread - aquafaba works for meringues.
| npsimons wrote:
| For a binder or thickener, I've found ground flax seed mixed
| with water to work better.
| gregoryl wrote:
| My time to shine!
|
| Hazelnut Choc Chip cookies, designed for Aquafaba. NB. You can
| switch out more of the hazelnut/almond meal to adjust the taste,
| but don't go much below 1/2 cup of almond!
|
| 1 & 1/4 cup almond meal 1 & 1/4 cup hazelnut meal 1/2 cup dark
| chocolate chips 2/3 cup flour (gluten free blend works fine) 2/3
| cup raw sugar 1 tsp baking powder 1/2 tsp salt (ideally fine)
|
| Mix above together, set aside.
|
| 1/2 cup aquafaba
|
| Separately, whisk aquafaba until fluffy
|
| 6 tbsp coconut oil (liquid) 1 tsp vanilla extract
|
| Add to aquafaba, whisk until combined Add dry ingredients from
| above Mix until tacky dough forms Place in fridge for 30 minutes
|
| Preheat oven to 190C
|
| Form a ball from about 1.5 tablespoons of dough. Place ball onto
| baking paper lined tray. Bake in oven for about 15 minutes.
| chess_buster wrote:
| Aquafaba can be made into icecream, too. To prevent
| crystallisation, just add some vodka (or other alcohol).
| jadbox wrote:
| I just discovered making Aquafaba too, and have been using it as
| a tea/coffee creamer alternative as adding vanilla and stevia
| sweetener.
| fireattack wrote:
| I'm always amazed how cuisines vary vastly. In Chinese cuisine
| (which I'm familiar with), The use of egg byproducts (as in, not
| just cook egg) in cooking is significantly less compared to
| Western cuisines. Milk, even more so.
| mjsweet wrote:
| We have been using aquafaba exclusively due to egg issues for
| myself and our kids. We have found that mileage varies. Try for
| organic salt free chickpeas... the taste is not as strong and
| works amazing for pavlova (Australian desert) and merengue. We
| have also made chocolate mouse with salt free and I would suggest
| it's better than egg based mouse. Salted aquafaba we use in
| cakes. The most interesting thing about aquafaba is how it
| responds to heat, we think it's a lot more forgiving than egg.
| Both have a protein that responds to friction, but heat works
| differently so you have to realise that cakes and biscuits have a
| different texture to "normal", but we have found over time it's
| our new normal and we love it. Lastly, my scientist wife just
| said that egg has many properties that are useful in cooking and
| aquafaba is certainly exceptional for a few of them, but not all.
| nath_zul wrote:
| > pavlova (Australian desert)
|
| Excuse me?
| dghlsakjg wrote:
| It is named after a Russian Ballerina, but is believed to to
| have originated in Australia or NZ.
| ggm wrote:
| Australian here. They (NZ) invented it.
|
| We (queenslanders, specifically) invented the Lamington,
| their claims not withstanding.
| __d wrote:
| I recently looked into this, and found this article
| claiming neither NZ nor Oz were the originator:
| https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/423073/the-
| surprisi...
| nopassrecover wrote:
| Unsure if confused by desert/dessert or a kiwi disputing the
| origin, but it's effectively a meringue nest that is crunchy
| outside and marshmallowy inside topped with cream and fruit
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlova_(cake)
| Rooster61 wrote:
| While I fully support and love the fact that this is on the front
| page (aquafaba rocks :D), can we just take a minute and muse on
| how nice it is to see a sensible, clean, old-fashioned web site
| that gets information to you straightforward and unobtrusively?
|
| I miss the old web.
| lqet wrote:
| This is as good a place as any to ask the following naive
| question: what is the name for the cooking liquid of pasta? Just
| recently, I cooked some spaghetti in a very small pot and fished
| it out using a fork. I forgot the pot in the sink. After 8 hours,
| the liquid had formed a pancake-like mass at the bottom of the
| pot. Is it the same as aquafaba, just from a different plant
| (wheat?). Is there any use to it?
| seanhandley wrote:
| Starch water. You get the same when you cook potatoes.
| namdnay wrote:
| > . Is there any use to it?
|
| Definitely, the wheat starch mixture you get when cooking pasta
| is a great emulsifier for fat-based pasta sauces.
| autarch wrote:
| I'm vegan and I tried making whipped cream from chickpea water.
| It was one of the foulest things I've ever tried. It tasted
| _very_ beany.
|
| I haven't tried using it for other things, and I imagine it could
| work fine in baked goods or in things with other strong flavors
| on top of it.
|
| But for whipped cream, the vegan winner is still old school Rich
| Whip ready to whip (http://richwhip.com/rich-whip.php), which
| dates back to 1945. Note that only the ready to whip carton is
| vegan. The pre-whipped ones contain milk products.
| almog wrote:
| I'm not saying that it's as good as egg white meringue, but
| have you tried using non-canned aquafaba? The non canned option
| has more neutral taste in my opinion.
|
| When I cook chickpeas (for Hummus) I sometime boil it twice -
| the first time to source aquafaba and the second time with
| vegetables added for the Hummus itself.
| k__ wrote:
| _" Aquafaba can be used to replace egg whites"_
|
| _" butter, cheeses"_
|
| What eggwhites does it replace in butter?
| Rooster61 wrote:
| None obviously, but I think the key here is that butter
| contains protiens and milk fats that are tough to replicate
| using non dairy ingredients, unless you are of course making
| margarine.
|
| I'd imagine aquafaba's unique properties allow you to build
| "butter" around its structure to simulate the dairy ingredient
| we are familiar with.
|
| It's not just a 1-1 egg substitute.
| k__ wrote:
| I see.
|
| Thanks for the info :)
| hahla wrote:
| Serious question.. Why is this on the front page?
| unwind wrote:
| Not the poster, but I did post the same topic (but "only" at
| Wikipedia) four months ago [1]. That submission totally tanked,
| though.
|
| I felt it was interesting enough to post then not only because
| it's rather unexpected, and useful if you want to avoid eggs in
| your food, but also because it's _new_.
|
| I had just realized that day that the entire concept of using
| aquafaba as egg white replacement has not been around for very
| long. I mean the Wiki page says that the first recipe for
| meringues using aquafaba was published in 2015.
|
| I think it's really cool that such things are being discovered
| still. I mean the recipe for egg-based meringues is probably a
| few hundred years old [2] although sources are obscure. To have
| a vegan replacement using basically two ingredients appear six
| years ago is just cool! :)
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24210986
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meringue
| Rooster61 wrote:
| There are few truer hacks than recipe substitutions. You have
| to know the mechanics of what you are doing and how things
| react with each other to do it right.
|
| Cooking in general is a tinkerers dream in that regard.
| pizza wrote:
| It's accessible, novel, well laid out, and something we can try
| for ourselves quite easily. It's nice
| ianai wrote:
| Exactly, I could see it being used as a good UI/UX example
| for someone pitching sites to someone.
| mpalmer wrote:
| Because HN users are upvoting it.
| geek_at wrote:
| or the mods
| dang wrote:
| That's not wrong. We invited david-given to repost
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14165741. But it's
| only at #1 because the community upvoted it.
|
| You can see a list of invited reposts at
| https://news.ycombinator.com/invited.
|
| If anyone sees a great, forgotten submission in the HN
| archives, please let us know at hn@ycombinator.com so we
| can consider inviting a repost. There are tons of these,
| like amber in rock.
| [deleted]
| twic wrote:
| Or a huge bot farm operating at the behest of Big Chickpea.
| punkspider wrote:
| Was thinking the exact same thing.
|
| Update: After paying more attention to what it's all about I
| now find it very interesting.
| ehsankia wrote:
| I definitely never knew about this, and I too find it pretty
| fascinating. I don't think it's too uncommon to see Wiki
| links to random fun TIL stuff on HN.
| whoisburbansky wrote:
| Subtext here being wondering why all the upvoters aren't
| commenting (yet).
| giglamesh wrote:
| We are doing a bit of "research" first.
| ianai wrote:
| Well for one it feels and browses a lot like old-internet and
| the premise is old-internet, too. Ie deep info on some random
| thing someone's blown up.
| SkyMarshal wrote:
| Because it's disrupting egg whites?
| emptybits wrote:
| It ticks these boxes for me: food and nutrition hacking,
| science, intellectual curiosity, community-funded research
| project, etc.
| grimgrin wrote:
| This is the cool part of the site
|
| http://aquafaba.com/history.html
|
| > Joel's Discovers the Foam, Dec 2014
|
| > While actively looking for egg substitutes, Joel Roessel, a
| tenor from France, discovered through a systematic investigation
| into vegetable foams, that liquid from red kidney beans and
| hearts of palm can be coerced into a foam in the same way as flax
| mucilage. He posted his results on his blog at
| revolutionvegetale.com, providing a key contribution to unlocking
| the secret of aquafaba.
| jasonv wrote:
| As a vegetarian, I'm here to say canned chickpeas aren't great,
| but putting chickpeas straight into a pressure cooker for 15
| minutes... they're awesome.
| whymauri wrote:
| Here's one fun use: replacing egg whites in shaken cocktails.
| Particularly useful for vegan friends (or anyone who feels
| squeamish about raw egg as an ingredient).
|
| As long as you have good shaking technique, the foam and
| mouthfeel get pretty close to egg-based methods.
| mikeg8 wrote:
| Make sure no one has a peanut allergy! Aquafaba can cause
| allergic reactions. My brother experienced this first-hand.
| ggm wrote:
| Interesting, scary. My partner has peanut anaphylaxis,
| epipen, never once reacted to aquafaba which I used in
| hummous to loosen the mixture if there is enough lemon-juice
| sourness and it's too thick. We eat a LOT of chickpea. She's
| never had anything approaching throat constriction or mouth
| swelling.
|
| Are you sure there wasn't a contamination issue?
| dcolkitt wrote:
| > or anyone who feels squeamish about raw egg as an ingredient
|
| I still use chickpea juice in cocktails to mix it up. But the
| chance of a salmonella poisoning from eggs in the modern US
| supply chain is astronomically low. You're at much higher risk
| from most produce.
|
| If you're really risk-averse, you can always sous vide your
| eggs at 132 F for 60 minutes. This will pasteurize the surface
| (where any bacteria live), yet preserve the raw egg texture.
| (Egg whites and yols typically don't change form until around
| 140 F)
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| I've seen the data being 1:10,000 to 1:20,000 eggs in the US
| or Europe have salmonella present. The whites are
| theoretically the safest part.
|
| Immunocompromised individuals may still find these risks
| unacceptable, and then aquafaba or pasteurization is a great
| option.
| cmehdy wrote:
| Being from Europe I actually wondered how much of a
| difference there can be between US and EU when it comes to
| that issue, and this[0] StackExchange message was
| particularly interesting to see EU cases being much more
| prevalent than US ones.
|
| I grew up with unwashed eggs and never gave it much
| thought, but now I guess that's one more thing to keep in
| mind (although I live in North America these days)
|
| Somehow a little (probably incorrect) part of me likes to
| think that the unwashed eggs are more "authentic" and lead
| to better food - it's not rational thinking at all, and I'm
| not waiting for salmonella to hit me before I work at
| changing my mind about that :)
|
| [0] https://cooking.stackexchange.com/a/67006
| llbeansandrice wrote:
| In my experience it's not people that are worried about
| getting sick. It's that they just don't like eggs that much
| and raw eggs are even worse. So the idea of plopping an egg
| white into a delicious whiskey sour makes them want to gag.
|
| I have one convert so far, but he didn't see me make the
| drinks, just the final result.
|
| I'll have to try chickpea juice though since it seems
| logistically easier than dealing with an egg for a drink.
| xkjkls wrote:
| A lot of bartenders use aquafaba exclusively, because they
| can have a squeeze bottle of it behind the counter for
| hours, unlike egg whites.
| jfengel wrote:
| Hey, that's a good idea.
|
| I've been doing a lot of cocktails lately (gee, wonder why).
| And I do enjoy a flip. I don't make them simply because I don't
| want to deal with leftover egg yolks. But I tend to throw away
| aquafaba. Next time I have it, I'll try a flip made with it.
|
| Maybe tonight. Thanks.
| hug wrote:
| > And I do enjoy a flip. I don't make them simply because I
| don't want to deal with leftover egg yolks
|
| Flips are explicitly whole egg cocktails. If you're not using
| the yolk, you're not making a flip.
|
| If you try to use aquafaba to replace the egg in a flip
| recipe, you'll end up with a different drink because you
| won't have the flavour of the yolk.
| floren wrote:
| > or anyone who feels squeamish about raw egg as an ingredient
|
| I'm weird but I feel more squeamish about using the juice from
| a can of beans than I do using raw egg! Not because I think
| there's anything dangerous in there, just because it's
| unpleasant to me on some odd level :)
| soperj wrote:
| You could do it from just soaking dried beans as well I
| believe.
| spicymaki wrote:
| PSA: You don't want to eat uncooked soaked dried bean
| residue (especially red kidney beans). Uncooked it contains
| phytohaemagglutinin (plant lectin) which is toxic to
| humans. After cooking via boiling or pressure cooking it
| reduces the toxin to safe levels. Do not slow cook.
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| Canned beans are pressure cooked typically. I'd be more
| comfortable with the canned liquid.
|
| Neither really seems likely to get me sick though.
| soperj wrote:
| Cans are lined with plastic. So there's the whole BPA
| thing (or whatever they've replaced BPA with, which I'm
| sure leaches into to water as well)
| gooberwonder wrote:
| My husband uses it in a bourbon sour, and it's delicious and
| easy to make!
| whimsicalism wrote:
| Agreed - it works well in cocktails.
| ianai wrote:
| Got a preference for which to use? Seems like chickpea aquafaba
| might taste best.
| whymauri wrote:
| Chickpea is the most common in the community. I'd caution to
| be careful with the salinity of the chickpeas, which can vary
| between vendors.
| ianai wrote:
| Hmm I wonder whether no sodium would make it better for
| sweets. Chia seeds seem good for sweets though too.
| floren wrote:
| Recipes for sweet things usually include some salt
| because it enhances the flavor. If you've got salty
| chickpea juice, just consider reducing the other salt.
| jedimastert wrote:
| I was head-writing a comment about how disappointed I was that
| this was a quirky software name instead of chickpea water, which
| is almost magical in properties.
|
| Imagine my delight! Teach me to assume...
| striking wrote:
| Well, now that you've talked it up like that, I'm head-writing
| some ideas for a library that could fit this magical food
| product's name.
| shireboy wrote:
| My wife made bean brownies once. They tasted like beans, not
| brownies.
| colanderman wrote:
| My wife has made meringues with this. They whip up beautifully
| and come out deliciously light and crispy.
| SN76477 wrote:
| I want to get this into my hummus.
| mikeg8 wrote:
| If you have a peanut allergy, please read: I learned about
| aquafaba from my younger brother who suffers from a severe peanut
| allergy. He ordered a cocktail at a bar that substituted egg
| whites for aquafaba so the drink would be vegan friendly. This
| was not disclosed on the cocktail menu and he had an allergic
| reaction. The staff felt horrible after connecting the dots, and
| his drink and meal were taken care of, but I wanted to share as a
| warning for anyone with a peanut allergy. be ware of aquafaba in
| cocktails
| ar-nelson wrote:
| Strange... is it common for peanut allergies to be triggered by
| other legumes, like chickpeas? I'm allergic to peanuts but have
| never had problems with other legumes, or aquafaba.
| mikeg8 wrote:
| Interesting. My younger brother stays away from all legumes.
| Chickpeas have caused reactions for him in the past, although
| much less severe than a peanut.
| ar-nelson wrote:
| Maybe it depends on the severity. My peanut allergy is very
| unpleasant, but not anaphylactic as far as I know; I can
| deal with it with just Benadryl.
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(page generated 2021-01-14 23:00 UTC)