[HN Gopher] The richer you are, the more likely you'll social di...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The richer you are, the more likely you'll social distance, study
       finds
        
       Author : rustoo
       Score  : 143 points
       Date   : 2021-01-14 19:21 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (releases.jhu.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (releases.jhu.edu)
        
       | bronco21016 wrote:
       | Seems logical and what my anecdotal experience has been from
       | talking with friends and family. There is one exception. There is
       | a small percentage of far-right and wealthy that largely ignores
       | social distancing, in my experience.
       | 
       | It does make sense though overall. The wealthier you are the more
       | likely you are to have a significantly more comfortable living
       | experience that makes social distancing more bearable. More
       | access to food/grocery delivery, more access to entertainment and
       | technology, more access to at home recreation/exercise equipment,
       | more space in your home or the financial means to change that.
       | The list could go on.
       | 
       | In short money buys you space and things to fill your time alone.
        
         | achenatx wrote:
         | you specify far right, but it is also the left, in my
         | experience. They dont flaunt it because they need to toe the
         | party line. At the same time they are railing at trump for not
         | promoting masks more, they are flying to go skiing.
         | 
         | Mayor adler of austin got extended family together, had a
         | wedding, then took a private jet to cabo where he recorded a
         | video encouraging austinites to stay home.
         | 
         | Most of my friends are liberals and many are eating in
         | restaurants, taking trips, getting together without masks "with
         | a select" group of friends that they are quarantining with etc.
         | They say the right thing, but are doing something different.
         | 
         | Your confirmation bias and the media says it is the right. Here
         | is an example of hollywood stars that got infected.
         | 
         | https://www.vulture.com/article/famous-people-celebrities-wi...
         | 
         | Here is an article about prominent dems not following guidance.
         | https://www.businessinsider.com/democratic-politicians-who-v...
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | Here's an example of congressional republicans refusing to
           | wear masks while sheltering in place during the recent siege
           | on the capitol:
           | https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/democrats-
           | have-c...
        
         | s1artibartfast wrote:
         | To be fair, the paper also looked at behaviors like increased
         | washing you hands and found that they tracked with income as
         | well.
        
         | jolmg wrote:
         | > The list could go on.
         | 
         | I'd think the biggest would be more freedom with respect to
         | making work more compliant to social distancing.
        
         | MartianSquirrel wrote:
         | I would tend to think the education level also plays a role,
         | and considering wealthier individuals usually have a better
         | access to education/are more educated (read correlation not
         | causation here), said individuals might have a better grasp off
         | what is happening.
         | 
         | Edit: Remote working is also easier when you have an office job
         | 
         | Edit 2: I hope more research like this will come out so we can
         | prepare and protect the ones who are more at risk when the next
         | pandemic comes. Uderstanding the risk factors and how a disease
         | spreads is the first step of _debugging_ it. Sadly it is the
         | first pandemic where we have the necessary tools to track all
         | the information and analyse it. We have been lucky the death
         | rate was not much higher
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | nicbou wrote:
           | That makes sense, given how much statistics they throw at
           | you. Logarithmic scales, R numbers, per-100000 values,
           | percentages etc. That's on top of all the numbers you must
           | remember to relativise the daily news.
           | 
           | I wonder how much of it I'd grasp if I hadn't used maths
           | since high school.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | JacksonGariety wrote:
           | You really think right-wingers are too stupid to grasp the
           | concept of the virus?
        
             | MartianSquirrel wrote:
             | I did not mentionned political affiliations. I don't
             | understand why everyone seems to focus on politics
             | recently. Yes, there have been troubling events, but the
             | world did not stop revolving
        
               | mushbino wrote:
               | We could put a heat map of political affiliation,
               | education, and income to see if maybe a correlation. Not
               | too difficult to find out.
        
               | exclusiv wrote:
               | Well the top comment mentioned far-right so that's
               | probably why the parent dropped that. Separately, I don't
               | think it was a productive comment.
        
               | MartianSquirrel wrote:
               | Fair enough, that part did not register as OP said it was
               | "anecdotical" and in his experience
        
               | JacksonGariety wrote:
               | The comment you replied to is about right-wing response
               | to the virus.
               | 
               | Still, barring the political stuff (supposing that's
               | possible)--your comment implies that people who wear
               | masks do so because they are educated. I'd suggest that
               | it is far more likely that they do so because they are
               | deferential to authority by default.
               | 
               | EDIT: s/smart/educated
        
               | majormajor wrote:
               | > Still, barring the political stuff (supposing that's
               | possible)--your comment implies that people who wear
               | masks do so because they are educated. I'd suggest that
               | it is far more likely that they do so because they are
               | deferential to authority by default.
               | 
               | Authorities in the US initially said _don 't_ wear masks
               | as private citizens. There was a groundswell of people
               | saying "it's not a panacea, but it's quite probably worth
               | doing for everybody" to get them to change their position
               | and admit the original one was based more on trying to
               | avoid a shortage than on anything about efficacy. That
               | pushback seemed to come from an educated populace.
        
               | netizen-9748 wrote:
               | GP comment mentions far-right wealthy people not socially
               | distancing, the commenter you are replying to seems to
               | have connected that with the parent's comment on
               | education.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | This is all true but I would still consider it surprising that
         | it's such a strong predictor of mask wearing and staying
         | physically separated from people.
         | 
         | The behaviors they studied cost nothing and are equally
         | available and beneficial to the rich and poor alike so it's odd
         | that it has any correlation to income at all.
        
           | vbtemp wrote:
           | I'm sorry you are getting downvoted for wrong HN think.
           | People come up with all sorts of weird off-the-cuff
           | justifications for things. Medical staff, various home
           | contractors, grocery-store staff all wear masks for extremely
           | long shifts. HN logic seems to be: Poor people less-likely to
           | social distance and wear masks -> HN responds with all sorts
           | of supposed sociological factors why they don't and why it's
           | acceptable. Meanwhile, lots of poor people (who work in the
           | aforementioned professions) actually do wear masks and safely
           | practice all the precautions, so the HN peanut gallery just
           | end up being patronizingly insulting to poor people.
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | If you're comfortable in your house for 15.5 of your 16
           | waking hours, it's not that much of a sacrifice to put on a
           | nice, fresh mask for half an hour a day.
           | 
           | If instead you're working 10+ hours a day somewhere near
           | people, you're probably tired of wearing the damn mask, the
           | mask might be wet with condensation in cold climates, etc.
        
             | exclusiv wrote:
             | That's true. I also have a theory that those that don't
             | wear condoms or use protection don't wear masks. And that a
             | large percentage of the more religious are less likely to
             | wear masks.
             | 
             | There are several buckets of people in those groups and
             | they're pretty sizable. Crosses several races and several
             | age groups.
             | 
             | EDIT: got some downvotes on this. Probably mentioning words
             | like "race" and "age" which is a no-no for some people.
             | 
             | To clarify the intent of my comment - I think in order to
             | provide a better response to a pandemic I think it is
             | important to understand those groups which would be better
             | served with different communications.
             | 
             | If you don't care about the risk of STDs or an unplanned
             | pregnancy or your faith in God is the primary driver of
             | your health and well-being response, you probably aren't
             | going to care as much as others about wearing a mask.
             | 
             | I had one young pregnant acquaintance of ours, who lives
             | with her grandmother, tell my wife that she knows she will
             | be ok because of her faith in God. This young woman had at
             | least one large family gathering. She didn't quarantine or
             | test before seeing people. Her fiance was actually going to
             | the gym regularly. Her grandmother got covid and luckily
             | she made it.
             | 
             | Repeating all the same directives (social distance, mask,
             | wash hands) has clearly NOT worked. Even saying the
             | hospitals are overwhelmed hasn't seemed to matter.
             | 
             | I don't think you can prepare a good response without
             | difficult conversations and an understanding of why people
             | might do what they do and how that perspective developed.
             | 
             | And politicians would rather speak vaguely and not make
             | tough calls lest they inflame some of their supporters.
        
               | throwaway0a5e wrote:
               | >I also have a theory that those that don't wear condoms
               | or use protection don't wear masks.
               | 
               | >If you don't care about the risk of STDs or an unplanned
               | pregnancy or your faith in God is the primary driver of
               | your health and well-being response, you probably aren't
               | going to care as much as others about wearing a mask.
               | 
               | So people in committed relationships, homosexuals and
               | people above the age where pregnancy is possible?
               | 
               | Because those are the groups of people who use condoms
               | the least and at least one of them is certainly not
               | letting religion inform their sexual habits.
        
           | throwaway3699 wrote:
           | If the only respite to being locked indoors is going outside,
           | of course people are going to dislike masks. It's a constant
           | reminder that there's nowhere to escape from the current
           | situation.
        
             | war1025 wrote:
             | Do people commonly wear masks outside in some places?
             | 
             | Where I live, we have more or less universal mask wearing
             | in stores, but the only reason people wear masks outside is
             | that they are about to head into a business or are just
             | leaving one. What's the point of wearing a mask outside?
        
               | jdavis703 wrote:
               | In the Bay Area masks are required indoors and outdoors
               | whenever within 30 feet of people. For apartment dwellers
               | there's been no way to legally _enjoy_ fresh air for the
               | last 10 months.
        
               | war1025 wrote:
               | Sounds miserable.
        
               | orangecat wrote:
               | _Do people commonly wear masks outside in some places?_
               | 
               | Yes. In my area it's required by law.
               | 
               |  _What 's the point of wearing a mask outside?_
               | 
               | Basically nothing other than signalling, with possible
               | exceptions for crowded environments. Overall I expect
               | outdoor mask mandates to be harmful on balance, by
               | causing people to shift from outdoor to indoor
               | gatherings.
        
               | ev1 wrote:
               | At least here (SF), everything is crowded. Every single
               | trail, park, you are going to effectively be covered in
               | people, runners panting on the sidewalk an inch from you.
               | It's definitely not signaling and I'd much rather
               | everyone put them on in this case when crowding is the
               | guarantee.
               | 
               | I'd have no issue walking around unmasked if you were out
               | in the middle of the night and you were the only one
               | around, though. But the days are so crowded it's pretty
               | much an indoor environment.
        
               | orangecat wrote:
               | Yeah, I can see the argument for places like SF. Where I
               | am there are lots of areas where you can easily maintain
               | 10+ feet separation, yet the city explicitly changed the
               | law from "masks outside when you can't distance" to
               | "masks outside always".
        
               | greggturkington wrote:
               | "signalling?" It reduces the spread of disease in crowded
               | areas.
        
               | Hamuko wrote:
               | I usually only see people wearing a mask outside if they
               | go by public transportation.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | PrefixKitten wrote:
         | this is my thinking as well. I was already excruciatingly
         | isolated and lonely beforehand. I'm not gonna pass up what few
         | social opportunities I get just to avoid a little risk
        
         | beervirus wrote:
         | White collar jobs tend to be more flexible with working from
         | home too. If I worked at a factory all day in close proximity
         | to others, I wouldn't bother distancing when I was off the
         | clock.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | >There is a small percentage of far-right and wealthy that
         | largely ignores social distancing, in my experience.
         | 
         | Case in point, republican lawmakers refusing to wear masks
         | while sheltering during the far right insurrection last week:
         | 
         | https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/democrats-have-c...
        
         | zeku wrote:
         | Yeah I would hope they adjusted for work. I'm a SWE working
         | remotely until the pandemic is over and the guy at my house
         | today fixing my plumbing is in people's homes every day. It's
         | pretty unfair/easy comparison that doesn't really say much if
         | you don't adjust for work.
        
           | phnofive wrote:
           | You might be surprised by the plumber's income bracket.
        
             | throwaway0a5e wrote:
             | You don't make squat until you own your own business
             | (though there are some exceptions for commercial work).
             | Which you can't do until you've put your years in thanks to
             | protectionist licensing schemes.
        
             | NationalPark wrote:
             | To save everyone else from a google, the median plumber
             | income in 2019 was $55,160 according the BLS
             | (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-
             | extraction/plumbers...).
        
               | ska wrote:
               | Which is about 1/2 the equivalent stat for software devs
               | (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-
               | technology/...)
        
               | JMTQp8lwXL wrote:
               | Surprising how the BLS numbers seem so far off from
               | what's seen on Levels.fyi. Possible explanations: they
               | only factor in base salary (no RSUs or bonuses), the bay
               | area employs a proportionally small number of SWEs (such
               | that the median is reflective of other, cheaper areas),
               | or non-traditional jobs are getting grouped with SWEs as
               | a single career category.
        
             | el_benhameen wrote:
             | This is a common trope and is true for some
             | journeymen/business owners, but does not necessarily apply
             | to the majority of plumbers and tradespeople in general.
             | The guy that Whoops-O-Rooter sends to your house to snake
             | your drains or fix a leak is not likely to be in a high
             | income bracket.
        
               | jvalencia wrote:
               | My contractor service friends spend a goodly portion of
               | their income on Google Ads or their business evaporates.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | A prime example of why advertising is zero-sum and should
               | be restricted across the board. Would free up so much
               | money for businesses to use on something worthwhile, with
               | no net loss in customers.
        
           | tinus_hn wrote:
           | Also if you live in a mansion and can afford delivery instead
           | of living in an apartment and getting groceries after work.
        
             | vkou wrote:
             | Most grocery stores now offer curbside pickup at no extra
             | cost.
             | 
             | There are some non-monetary inconveniences associated with
             | this. In aggregate, they are probably less significant than
             | the monetary and non-monetary inconveniences of having the
             | chance to catch COVID-19 inside the grocery.
        
         | jorblumesea wrote:
         | I'd say the biggest difference is where you make your money.
         | Income and ability to work remotely seems pretty strongly
         | correlated due to its probably white collar nature, and this
         | normalizes social distancing. If you work in a grocery store,
         | chances are you are desensitized to some of the ideas.
        
         | manicdee wrote:
         | There is also the issue that people with higher disposable
         | incomes can afford to not work, while people with low or zero
         | disposable income need every hour of work they can scrounge up,
         | so they don't have the choice to not work.
        
           | threatofrain wrote:
           | > There is also the issue that people with higher disposable
           | incomes can afford to not work.
           | 
           | People with _savings or wealth_ can afford not to work.
        
             | imbnwa wrote:
             | Can't forget the white collars also living paycheck-to-
             | paycheck for whatever reason
        
       | GoodJokes wrote:
       | The richer you are the more likely you CAN social distance
        
       | themaninthedark wrote:
       | The idea of being able to socially distance and work from home is
       | one that is very much rooted in white collar and office jobs
       | mindset.
       | 
       | Here is a paraphrasing of a conversation I had with my cousin who
       | works as a research scientist for vaccines(not COVID), I am a
       | production engineer at a manufacturing facility.
       | 
       | Cousin:"If we just locked down everything for a month or two,
       | Covid would be gone" Me:"I don't think we have food in the house
       | to last 2 months" C:"Well, grocery stores would still have to
       | stay open I guess..."
       | 
       | So we need food, that keeps grocery stores open. Need delivery to
       | the store, that keeps gas stations open. Need to repair cars,
       | garages are now open. Keep unpacking things and you begin to see
       | that there is a lot that is essential.
       | 
       | Now, you could help limit things by saying only 1 grocery store
       | in 5 mile radius can be open but who gets to pick which store?
       | Keep the Whole Foods open or the Kroger?
        
       | thejellypen wrote:
       | anecdotal but from what ive seen its the rich & entitled that
       | dont care and do whatever they want. vacations, seeing groups
       | anfnthen their families etc.
        
         | gameswithgo wrote:
         | entitled people doing what they want is a bit tautological
        
         | lamontcg wrote:
         | there's plenty of normally rich and wealthy people who aren't
         | the narcissist jet set who are just WFH through the whole
         | thing.
         | 
         | when you discuss "rich" you need to distinguish between the 99%
         | narcissist kardashian class and everyone who is in the 90th
         | percentile.
        
           | thejellypen wrote:
           | fair enough
        
         | chairmanwow1 wrote:
         | But with lots of testing throughout, no?
        
       | qixv wrote:
       | The title should really be something like "The nicer a home you
       | have, the more likely you'll social distance, study finds". This
       | seems closer to the causality which is implied in the article.
        
       | jokethrowaway wrote:
       | > the more likely they were to protect themselves at the early
       | stages of the Covid-19 pandemic in the United States
       | 
       | Emphasis on "early stages".
       | 
       | When there was no data available and before the issue was
       | politicised, of course it made sense for people who could afford
       | it to preventively self-isolate.
       | 
       | Poor people simply didn't have an option (as in many other
       | things).
        
       | king_panic wrote:
       | This was true even before the China Virus
        
       | randyrand wrote:
       | good self discipline correlates with lots of positive things.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | throwaway0a5e wrote:
       | Not surprising at all. The less rich you are the more you have
       | bigger problems.
        
       | Nacdor wrote:
       | A lot of people have joked that there really is no "lockdown",
       | there are just rich people staying home while poor people bring
       | them things.
        
         | rhino369 wrote:
         | I'm not forcing people making $10/hr to work in a tight kitchen
         | where social distancing is impossible. I'm supporting local
         | restaurants!
        
       | treeman79 wrote:
       | For people without kids, distancing is one thing.
       | 
       | For those with small children it's a whole different matter.
       | 
       | Guess which group tends To have extra money.
       | 
       | At a certain point social distancing is pointless.
       | 
       | Have a small home with kids? Your not going to keep them locked
       | up for a year without major issues. Us and neighbors eventuality
       | gave up on keeping kids separated.
       | 
       | At home learning in a big house is painful. I can't imagine a
       | small apartment.
       | 
       | Once kids go back to in person schooling, Congratulations your
       | getting Covid.
       | 
       | A month after in person school started later whole family had
       | Covid.                 Not fun, but have had worse.  Very glad to
       | finally get it over with.
       | 
       | Kids only had a fever for one day.
       | 
       | Had many friends lose or risk losing their jobs and businesses
       | during the past year. So for many of them avoiding COVID may mean
       | going homeless.
        
       | godmode2019 wrote:
       | Sounds like sampling bias, also - ""The team found lower-income
       | respondents faced increased chances of job and income losses due
       | to the pandemic and limited access to remote work. They were also
       | more likely to live in homes with no access to the outdoors -
       | access to outdoor space was a very strong predictor of social
       | distancing, the researchers found. People with access to open air
       | at home were 20% more likely to social distance.""
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | some_random wrote:
       | >"The whole messaging of this pandemic is you're stuck at home
       | teleworking, that must be really tough so here are some recipes
       | for sourdough starter, and here's what you should catch up on
       | Netflix," Papageorge said. "But what about the people who aren't
       | teleworking? What are they going to do?"
       | 
       | We've kinda entered this situation where the most vulnerable
       | people are being shamed while the most able are held up as
       | paragons of society. There's a reason that stupid video of
       | celebrities in their mansions singing was so hated.
        
         | kenjackson wrote:
         | The most vulnerable aren't being shamed. The firefigher or
         | nurse or plumber or grocer -- everyone respects that they are
         | doing important work on the frontline.
         | 
         | The people being shamed are the ones having 30 person parties
         | for New Years. Whether it is Gavin Newsome or someone in the
         | trailer park. Those are the people that are being shamed.
        
           | outside1234 wrote:
           | And to be clear, should be shamed. It is just shameful to
           | "continue on" with your life while our medical professionals
           | are pulling 16 hour days with 0 capacity ICUs because you
           | want to ski.
        
       | asdff wrote:
       | It's glaringly evident when you see this mapped. Here is LA
       | county, the hot spots are some of the poorest areas, while the
       | wealthy along the hills are scarcely in a pandemic by comparison:
       | 
       | http://dashboard.publichealth.lacounty.gov/covid19_surveilla...
       | 
       | And it is no surprise considering most poor living situations in
       | LA county are overcrowded where it would be difficult to
       | distance, to the point of 1880s nyc tenemant conditions, and the
       | working poor are more likely to be called into work as an
       | essential worker than someone with a white collar job that can be
       | done at home.
        
       | andy-x wrote:
       | I wish it was the opposite - the more you social-distance the
       | richer you get :)
        
       | octocop wrote:
       | "The richer you are, the more money you have in your bank
       | account, study finds."
        
         | gred wrote:
         | Citation?
        
         | kenjackson wrote:
         | As I've gotten wealthier the amount of money in my bank account
         | went up for a bit, but then it started coming back down.
        
       | justicezyx wrote:
       | Wtf is this research?!
       | 
       | People are dying and researchers trying to prove obvious things?!
       | What's going on here?
       | 
       | I cannot understand what's the rationale behind this post. At
       | either researchers going later to show that being rich also
       | correlates with longer life and happier one as well?
       | 
       | What are all the inactivity happening in this country regarding
       | the covid? Everyone seems content with their own life and
       | comfortable with the obvious injustice and cruelty practiced
       | between each other.
       | 
       | In China, covid is treated as a issue that matters above anything
       | one can think of. If there is any trace of new carriers, any
       | outdoor activities are strictly traced and managed. People pay a
       | lot of attention and very careful about daily work and life. How
       | is this country are content with understanding that richer people
       | usually more respect the safety measure?
       | 
       | What an insane situation guys? Did you realize it?!
        
         | wrs wrote:
         | Do we realize it?? Imagine listing all the insane things
         | happening in the US right now. It would take hours. It's
         | incredible how fast people can normalize things that not long
         | before would have seemed completely delusional.
        
         | qntty wrote:
         | Do you have any suggestions for how an economist with this
         | specialty could better contribute to the situation than doing
         | research like this?
        
         | thinkingemote wrote:
         | Chill out bro. You being stressed doesnt help you or others.
        
       | Taniwha wrote:
       | We addressed this in New Zealand when we went into deep lockdown
       | (only allowed out for exercise and supermarket, everything else
       | closed) back in March - what the government did was essentially
       | trickle up relief (we all know now that trickle down doesn't
       | work) - what they provided was a wage subsidy that companies
       | could claim to pay employees who were locked down's wages - not a
       | fixed puny lump sum, not a gift to big biz, something to keep
       | people connected with their employers so that after we could
       | easily start everything back up again.
       | 
       | It wasn't cheap, but locking absolutely everyone down for a
       | couple of months was way cheaper that the alternative in the long
       | run - surely the US could have done this - you pay far higher
       | taxes than we do in NZ, money really shouldn't be an option
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | refurb wrote:
         | The government paid business to pay workers? That sounds
         | trickle down?
         | 
         | And no, the US has lower tax rates (30% bracket starts at $48k
         | NZD?).
        
         | apozem wrote:
         | The US should have done this. We could have done it. We don't
         | know the total economic damage yet, but I would wager it is
         | already many times what it would have cost to do what New
         | Zealand did.
         | 
         | The problem is a huge chunk of the country flies into a rage at
         | the thought of their tax dollars going to people who "don't
         | work."
         | 
         | Combine this with decades of Republican rhetoric about "welfare
         | queens," [1] separating the undeserving poor (read: black and
         | Hispanic people) from the deserving poor... it convinces white
         | voters to hurt themselves just so _those people_ don't get
         | something that _they_ don't deserve.
         | 
         | Racism warps American politics again and again and again. I
         | used to live in Atlanta, a city with some of the worst traffic
         | in the country. It lacks adequate public transit because white
         | homeowners didn't want black people coming to their suburbs
         | [2]. So now everyone suffers.
         | 
         | Our political system is diseased.
         | 
         | [1]: https://newrepublic.com/article/154404/myth-welfare-queen
         | 
         | [2]:
         | https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/14/magazine/traf...
        
           | asciident wrote:
           | I think it'd be the opposite reaction if the US adopted the
           | NZ strategy. People would be outraged that the money is going
           | to companies, especially large corporations where most people
           | work. Someone would come up with the statistic that 80% of
           | the money went to the richest 100 companies in the US or
           | something.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | refurb wrote:
           | Left wing rant aside, California, which is not exactly known
           | for it's right wing leanings has done absolutely horrible
           | with Covid. Not only has it failed to contain the virus it's
           | almost last in rolling out the vaccine (well behind those
           | racist Red states you call out like TX).
        
           | rhino369 wrote:
           | >The US should have done this. We could have done it.
           | 
           | Probably not without extraordinary measures that NZ didn't
           | have to do because they have nice natural borders. It's an
           | island chain with 5 million people.
           | 
           | The US has about 65 times as many people in the contiguous 48
           | states. But they aren't in 65 isolated island chains--they
           | are in interconnected economic areas. Chicago isn't isolated
           | from Milwaukee, Milwaukee isn't isolated from Madison,
           | Madison isn't isolated from Eau Claire, which isn't isolated
           | from Minnesota.
           | 
           | So if there is a 5% risk a population with 5 million has an
           | outbreak despite border controls, then its 96.5% likely that
           | there is at least one outbreak in at least one of the 65
           | groups of 5 million. And an outbreak in 1 would leak to the
           | rest because they are not isolated like New Zealand it. But
           | 5% is really low, especially since new zealand already had
           | one such outbreak. If its 50%, then its essentially 100%
           | certain an outbreak will happen.
           | 
           | That's why the EU didn't even try to do the New Zealand plan
           | either. Big interconnected areas can't rely on effective
           | border controls to prevent the spread.
           | 
           | That's not even considering the fact that the US and EU
           | already have COVID spread throughout their entire borders. As
           | far as I know, no country to wide spread outbreaks has gotten
           | the virus back under control. How many months of Melbourne
           | lock downs would it take to get the US or EU to actually 0
           | cases? If we miss some outbreaks in backwater WV, they'd
           | eventually spread to the whole country the second we opened
           | back up.
        
       | GuB-42 wrote:
       | I wonder if the trend reverses when we get to the ultra-rich.
       | 
       | The richest people are often leaders, celebrities, etc... They
       | are constantly moving and meeting people, and they are also more
       | likely to have personnel in their house, and maybe a chauffeur,
       | bodyguards, etc...
        
       | __s wrote:
       | People who can afford to socially distance & tend to be more
       | educated & are most likely to be able to work remotely are more
       | likely to socially distance
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | That doesn't track entirely because the behaviors they're
         | talking about are wearing masks and staying 6ft away from
         | people. Both behaviors cost nothing.
        
           | mindvirus wrote:
           | It could be a second order effect - the less wealthy you are,
           | the more often you are required to not social distance (due
           | to living situation and work etc) so in the times you can,
           | there's less pressure or desire to.
        
             | willcipriano wrote:
             | That would seem to be a reasonable reaction. If people with
             | jobs that don't really allow for social distancing were
             | also the people the most worried about the virus, they
             | would be under a great deal of psychological stress that
             | they can't really do anything about. From a evolutionary
             | standpoint it would make sense that the people most able to
             | act around a threat are also the most worried about it.
        
           | odessacubbage wrote:
           | when you're grabbing gas station coffee for your pre-dawn bus
           | commute to a job multiple hours away. distancing requires
           | both time and space that you do not have. moreover it
           | requires the social cachet to choose to be the odd man out in
           | a peer group that has been doing high-risk close proximity
           | labor for the entire stretch of the pandemic. this generates
           | broader complacency since you either already got it or you're
           | fucked anyway because if your roomie gets it you're gonna get
           | it and if you didn't get it _by now_ then it must not have
           | been a big deal so why single yourself out?
        
           | timr wrote:
           | Poorer folks in New York City have drastically less space
           | available for...pretty much everything.
           | 
           | Even in relatively spaced-out areas, this is true. If you go
           | to Central Park, you'll find that the density of people on an
           | average day is far higher at (say) Harlem Meer than it is
           | further south. There are simply more people who are sharing
           | the same recreation space that is within X miles of the place
           | they are living.
           | 
           | Central Park is actually a silly example, because it's _far
           | better_ than most other parts of New York. Go to Fort
           | Washington Park on an average sunny weekend, and the density
           | of people is _dramatically_ higher than Riverside Park,
           | further south. And that 's just recreation...poorer people
           | have less time for that than rich people do. Go to Flushing,
           | and people are cheek-to-jowl at pretty much all times, even
           | though there's a big empty park right next door.
        
             | dcolkitt wrote:
             | > And that's just recreation...poorer people have less time
             | for that than rich people do.
             | 
             | At least in the US, the poor have significantly more
             | leisure time than the rich.
             | 
             | https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/the-
             | fre...
        
           | grimjack00 wrote:
           | You can't perform the no-cost behavior of wearing a mask
           | without, you know, _having_ a mask, which is not necessarily
           | free.
        
           | ska wrote:
           | > Both behaviors cost nothing.
           | 
           | This is not true for the latter. Many people, especially some
           | with little means, have little practical ability to maintain
           | social distance.
        
           | throwaway0a5e wrote:
           | They cost _nothing_ in the same way that exercising and
           | cutting out junk food costs _nothing8.
           | 
           | Though I will grant you that wearing a mask does cost less
           | _nothing*.
        
         | t-writescode wrote:
         | And can afford food couriers for dinners.
        
           | 52-6F-62 wrote:
           | Or a functional kitchen. It's one of the major factors for me
           | in a dwelling. I used to have to make myself a loaf of soda
           | bread as my only food for the week in my "kitchen" that was a
           | stove and a sink in the corner of a room. Now that I'm a
           | little more established I have a kitchen that my partner and
           | I can _both_ move about freely while we work on a meal and it
           | never ceases to feel like we somehow cheated to gain such a
           | luxury.
           | 
           | So food can increase qualitatively in more way than one when
           | you have more resources behind you! And it's certainly not a
           | fact that's lost on people who are struggling
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | Eh. I'm still on microwave dishes. It's been a while since I
           | ordered food.
        
             | gameswithgo wrote:
             | You...could be...healthier?
        
               | Hamuko wrote:
               | I could be a lot healthier in many ways.
        
               | rhino369 wrote:
               | Ordering in is probably just as bad unless you really go
               | out of your way to order healthy.
        
               | grimjack00 wrote:
               | So...what?
        
               | Triv888 wrote:
               | That's probably true for 99% of us?
        
               | GuB-42 wrote:
               | There is nothing unhealthy about microwaved dishes.
               | 
               | In fact, frozen food, a primary candidate for the
               | microwave, may be just as good as fresh food, sometimes
               | better depending on the process and on how fresh the
               | "fresh" food is. Also microwaving is actually a healthy
               | way of cooking things.
               | 
               | It all depends on what you put inside your microwave.
               | Healthy food is healthy, junk food is junk, but the
               | microwave has nothing to do with it.
        
               | ska wrote:
               | This is true for at least a lot of frozen food, but
               | doesn't speak to the distribution of available microwaved
               | dishes.
               | 
               | As you say healthy food is healthy, but there may not be
               | a lot of it available in your local freezer aisle. Or
               | there may, depends where you live and shop I suspect.
        
       | brutal_chaos_ wrote:
       | I am probably in the minority here on HN and I'd like you to pay
       | attention to this part from TFA:
       | 
       | "But the team found it was also much easier for people with more
       | money to take extra safety measures."
       | 
       | I am vulnerable due to pre-existing conditions. Currently my
       | partner works retail-it is open and the workers are not
       | considered essential/front line and will be in the last group to
       | get vaccinated-because we need money of course. We live in a
       | studio together, I'm afraid one or both of us may not make it
       | through this pandemic. Every day we do everything we can, but all
       | it can take is one slip. I am only one of many who share a
       | similar story in the US and I believe it needs way more
       | attention.
        
       | mcguire wrote:
       | " _But the team found it was also much easier for people with
       | more money to take extra safety measures._
       | 
       | " _Higher-income individuals were more likely to report being
       | able to work from home and more likely to have transitioned to
       | telework instead of losing their job. The researchers found the
       | ability to telework emerged as a huge predictor of whether
       | someone would social distance. Compared to somebody who continued
       | to work, people able to telework were 24% more likely to social
       | distance._
       | 
       | " _"The whole messaging of this pandemic is you're stuck at home
       | teleworking, that must be really tough so here are some recipes
       | for sourdough starter, and here's what you should catch up on
       | Netflix," Papageorge said. "But what about the people who aren't
       | teleworking? What are they going to do?"_
       | 
       | " _The team found lower-income respondents faced increased
       | chances of job and income losses due to the pandemic and limited
       | access to remote work. They were also more likely to live in
       | homes with no access to the outdoors - access to outdoor space
       | was a very strong predictor of social distancing, the researchers
       | found. People with access to open air at home were 20% more
       | likely to social distance._
       | 
       | " _All of these burdens ensured those earning the least would
       | have a harder time adopting social-distancing behaviors, which
       | could have prolonged the pandemic, the team found. Social
       | distancing was simply more practical, comfortable and feasible
       | for people with more income._ "
        
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