[HN Gopher] Mysterious helicopters have been circling Los Angeles
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Mysterious helicopters have been circling Los Angeles
        
       Author : josephjrobison
       Score  : 154 points
       Date   : 2021-01-14 16:19 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
        
       | asdff wrote:
       | It shouldn't be that other worldly in socal. This is the land of
       | the helicopter, where Kobe (may he rest in peace) used to commute
       | to the staples center on helicopter. Where elon musk also
       | commutes by air rather than by his own tesla car. Where the LAPD
       | flies at least two helicopters between 8am-4am every single day
       | regardless of what the radio calls for. In fact, I'm working
       | outside and hear one above right now, by the looks of it, its a
       | small grey personal helicopter. Just after I wrote this I am
       | hearing a second one, navy blue with a yellow callsign on the
       | tail, probably another personal craft.
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | The most curious part to me is that all these photos of the
       | helicopters were taken by cameras without rolling shutters.
        
         | sudosysgen wrote:
         | Most cameras that can take good images of helicopters in flight
         | have a mechanical shutter available.
        
           | KaiserPro wrote:
           | Thats only there to protect the sensor. There will be an
           | electronic shutter too.
        
             | sudosysgen wrote:
             | Not really. Most interchangeable lens cameras do not have a
             | purely electronic shutter, it's a very new feature.
             | 
             | Those that do, do not have it as the default mode. There is
             | also the electronic first curtain shutter, but that is way
             | closer to a mechanical shutter than to an electronic
             | shutter.
        
           | PointyFluff wrote:
           | Such as?
           | 
           | Citation needed.
        
             | sudosysgen wrote:
             | Pretty much every single camera that has interchangeable
             | lenses, and thus can mount a telephoto objective sufficient
             | for taking good pictures of helicopters has a mechanical
             | shutter. From the Sony alpha series, to Nikon DSLRs, to the
             | Canon EOS line, and so on.
        
         | spaetzleesser wrote:
         | Probably taken with cameras with mechanical shutters? That
         | doesn't seem very curious.
        
         | daysigh wrote:
         | I see we have a man of culture here.
        
           | mdoms wrote:
           | This isn't reddit. Keep these comments to yourself.
        
             | donatj wrote:
             | This is the persons very first comment. Assuming good faith
             | on their part, and that they are new to HN, there's no need
             | to be rude.
             | 
             | We want to foster a friendly community here.
        
               | uoaei wrote:
               | That wasn't rude. It was direct.
        
               | mwambua wrote:
               | I found it rude and indirect. It would have been nice of
               | them to point out why the comment is unhelpful, rather
               | than just saying "This isn't reddit"
        
               | texasbigdata wrote:
               | The best part though, is not the initial response or the
               | counter, it's the fact the "commons" is so valued you
               | have this sort of meta self-regulation taking place to
               | rebalance to equilibrium. Super cool and wish, well
               | basically everything else in life was like that.
        
               | blululu wrote:
               | Meta-comment: that is nice of you to check the OP's
               | submission history. It does add context and the response,
               | while valid was maybe a little harsh in light of the
               | poster's newness. It might be nice if there were an easy
               | way to tell if a poster is new (or a throwaway) for such
               | context.
        
               | 1f60c wrote:
               | The usernames of new users are colored green for the
               | first two weeks (or so) after they've signed up.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ISL wrote:
         | Having serendipitously dipped a toe into the avgeek waters, it
         | doesn't seem so surprising to me. In a major metropolitan area,
         | you can bank on people listening to ATC traffic and camping out
         | near airfields with good-enough cameras at almost any time. In
         | the avgeek world, one can earn both personal satisfaction and
         | kudos for novel aircraft, so they are especially desirable.
         | 
         | Even a beginner is likely to have an imaging system that is
         | plenty good, with a mechanical shutter. The atmospheric shimmer
         | in the third image suggests that it was made with a longer
         | lens; probably not a beginner.
         | 
         | The President of the United States can't fly over Britain on a
         | secret trip without getting photographed by a semi-retired IT
         | manager: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/27/air-
         | force-on...
         | 
         | It is really great to see distributed citizen-journalism
         | happening.
        
           | wkearney99 wrote:
           | I read that as "disturbed citizen-journalism" and, honestly,
           | it'd still work.
        
           | CobsterLock wrote:
           | It is super cool that there is a community around this
        
         | KaiserPro wrote:
         | I don't think we can draw that conclusion.
         | 
         | Its the middle of the day with no cloud, so there is plenty of
         | light. That means we can up the shutter speed to the point
         | where rolling shutter is negligible.
         | 
         | I have a nikon d7000, which has a rolling shutter. Its only
         | really noticeable when I'm recording video, or when there is
         | _lots_ of movement inside the shutter time. at 1/3200th of
         | second, thats a lot of movement.
        
           | sudosysgen wrote:
           | While that's true, a smartphone even at 1/3200th will have a
           | 30th of a second or so of rolling shutter.
        
           | Sharlin wrote:
           | The D7000, like all system cameras, has a mechanical shutter
           | it uses when taking photos. Even though technically "rolling"
           | as well, it is _much_ faster than a typical electronic
           | shutter due to the way a CMOS sensor must be read out. Phone
           | cameras have no physical shutters and use e-shutter all the
           | time, but your D7000 only resorts to it when shooting video.
           | 
           | As a rule of thumb, it takes several milliseconds for a
           | mechanical shutter to traverse the sensor plane, but it takes
           | several _tens_ of milliseconds for an e-shutter to readout
           | the sensor. Shutter speed does not affect this; even at 1
           | /4000s or 1/8000s or whatever the time difference between the
           | top and the bottom of a photo remains the same.
        
       | trhway wrote:
       | hunting for the jetpack man i guess. In general with jetpacks and
       | drones of all sizes, including human carrying, the airspace is to
       | become more lively and entertaining with coming years - for
       | example police in Japan is using drones with nets to catch drug
       | carrying drones, so the drug traffickers started to use drones
       | with nets to catch those police drones...
        
         | handmodel wrote:
         | The route they took wasn't particularly close to where the
         | jetbacks were spotted. I don't think it is that - although I
         | don't know enough about aviation to know what they were doing
         | or how rare of an occurrence they are.
        
           | asdff wrote:
           | Helicopters are practically a native bird here, they are
           | incredibly common. I've been working outside for the past
           | hour and spotted my third flying overhead already in that
           | time span. LAPD also always has at least two birds in the air
           | for like 20 hours out of the day, but there are tons and tons
           | of private operators and just plain old rich people who
           | commute like this (most famously probably Kobe Bryant given
           | he recently died commuting by helicopter).
        
           | thewebcount wrote:
           | As far as how rare they are - helicopters in LA are a daily
           | occurrence. I used to live in Mar Vista, just a few blocks
           | from Venice Beach, and they flew over our house every night.
           | There were times when they flew so low they caused the water
           | in our pool to ripple (though that was rare). Now I'm down in
           | Westchester, and we get fewer, but they're still around
           | frequently. I saw some yesterday, but think they were just
           | regular LAPD, and not these particular ones. (And looking at
           | the map of their route, they didn't fly over us.)
        
       | raphaelcosta wrote:
       | How many conspiracy theories people will create/associate using
       | that story?
        
         | mikestew wrote:
         | Black helicopters? Conspiracy? There's even a Wikipedia page:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_helicopter
         | 
         | Now, just like every other conspiracy nut, I'd like to state
         | upfront that I'm no conspiracy theorist. However, over the
         | years "seeing black helicopters" has been an insult used by
         | some. Yet I used to see them parked out in the open at the
         | National Guard base along I-70 in eastern Indiana like 25-30
         | years ago. And here we have photos published by not-
         | disreputable source. Make of it what you will.
        
           | MikeTheGreat wrote:
           | Are you saying that 25-30 year old helicopters from eastern
           | Indiana are now circling LA?
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | I think it's pretty clear they are saying people would say
             | you're a nutter for saying unmarked helicopters are used by
             | government agencies yet he knew them to exist even back
             | then. Not sure where you picked up that they were the same
             | exact helicopters.
        
           | airstrike wrote:
           | Now I feel like watching every movie listed in the "Fictional
           | representations" section
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_helicopter#Fictional_rep.
           | ..
        
       | digikata wrote:
       | Similar reports of helicopters in my community were aerial
       | inspections of the electrical grid being conducted by So Cal
       | Edison.
        
         | vidanay wrote:
         | That sounds exactly like a Karen: The power company started the
         | fires due to lack of maintenance! Why is the power company
         | flying helicopters and disturbing me?
        
           | digikata wrote:
           | I don't think the utility had sent out any community notices.
           | So when helis loiter around a little lower and slower than
           | normal I think it's natural to be curious. Particularly when
           | they show up on a daily basis for maybe a few weeks to a
           | month.
        
       | ravenstine wrote:
       | For the past few years I've called Pasadena(I live in the general
       | area) the "land of helicopters", but I didn't know that LA in
       | general was seeing something similar recently. People keep
       | telling me that Pasadena/SGV must be a good place to train
       | helicopter pilots, but I don't buy it.
       | 
       | It's been a while since I've bothered to actually look at these
       | helicopters, but a lot of them are pretty nondescript. Not
       | obvious news or police helicopters.
       | 
       | Then again, I just realized that "Helicopter Hell" is more
       | alliterative.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | A flight all the way around greater LA while following freeways
       | suggests a training mission. What they're training for is another
       | issue.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | Pretty much all helicopter flight paths going through LA follow
         | freeways to navigate, that doesn't suggest anything.
        
       | ericcholis wrote:
       | Similarly, there's been an increase in helicopter traffic in
       | Western New York. But, we do know why. It's Canadian snowbirds
       | trying to skip the border shutdown to head to Florida
       | https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/local/canadians-buzz-throu...
        
         | Triv888 wrote:
         | They can still fly to come down here (but if they want to bring
         | their car, they need to ship it down). It is packed with
         | Canadians down south Florida.
        
           | deskamess wrote:
           | Many have also jumped the queue to get free COVID shots
           | (Tampa had a recent news report). One couple said they booked
           | shots (4 weeks in the future) for their friends who are still
           | in Canada (they will travel down shortly). Not sure how this
           | is permitted although it makes scientific sense (anyone can
           | transmit).
           | 
           | The US is currently well ahead of Canada in per-capita COVID
           | delivery.
        
             | throwaway894345 wrote:
             | It's probably a rounding error after one considers that
             | there are probably some Americans in Canada, but Canada has
             | three vaccinations (not just 3 _doses_ ) per citizen while
             | the US only has 1 and change. It would be a bummer if
             | Canadians were consuming the more limited US vaccinations
             | in meaningful numbers. I'm "picking on" Canada here because
             | while America has a lot of medical tourism from South
             | America, it tends to be out of necessity (worse medical
             | infrastructure and so on) as opposed to impatience.
        
               | deskamess wrote:
               | But the vaccines are not getting into arms. In theory
               | there are 3 vaccines and if others are approved and ramp
               | up production (like Oxford) then the rate can increase.
               | Right now, that is all theoretical and total coverage is
               | scheduled for early September 2021. That does not include
               | children (<16) since I am not sure there is a children's
               | variant.
        
               | throwaway894345 wrote:
               | Nevertheless, it's still vaccines that other countries
               | can't use, and presumably other countries weren't
               | expecting to provide Canadians' vaccinations when they
               | were purchasing their vaccination stock.
        
             | tenpies wrote:
             | > The US is currently well ahead of Canada in per-capita
             | COVID delivery.
             | 
             | The US is actually well ahead of most of the world,
             | especially when you factor population and geography [1].
             | Sure, Israel has crushed everyone, but I think we can all
             | agree there are exceptional circumstances which make this
             | easier in Israel than in most other countries. Other
             | success stories have been largely small, wealthy countries.
             | 
             | It's a shame that the US media is so politicized as to not
             | recognize Operation Warp Speed and the men and women - from
             | researchers, to logisticians, to clinicians - who have made
             | this possible. It has been an absolute miracle of human
             | achievement and will hopefully be celebrated by historians,
             | since the current generation refuses to do so.
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | [1] https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
        
               | gamblor956 wrote:
               | It's a shame that current administration is trying to
               | take credit for work that began more than a decade ago
               | with SARS, as that work was the foundation for the SARS2
               | (aka COVID) vaccines...and indeed, what we think of as
               | the COVID vaccine began life as the SARS vaccine.
        
               | throwaway894345 wrote:
               | This is pretty remarkable. I wonder why numbers in so
               | many European countries are so much lower?
        
         | pbourke wrote:
         | Probably this will be discontinued now that the US will require
         | a negative COVID test prior to entry via air.
        
           | ikpomtdk wrote:
           | These passengers were still subject to quarantine
           | requirements (enforcement may be a different story). There
           | are no direct flights between Toronto and Buffalo so the
           | helicopter charters were filling this gap, while also
           | skirting the physical border closures.
        
           | sandworm101 wrote:
           | Given the up to 10k they are paying for flights and to have
           | their RVs driven across the boarder (yes, commercial drivers
           | can cross in RVs) a few hundred dollars for a covid test
           | won't be an issue. Private covid tests in canada cost about
           | 250$.
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | The helicopter flight is $1200 for up to 3 pax:
             | https://greatlakeshelicopter.ca/flights-to-the-u-s-a/ and
             | an RV shuttle looks to be $1600.
        
             | thatguy0900 wrote:
             | You have to pay $250 in Canada for a covid test?
        
               | singlow wrote:
               | He specified private COVID Test. I assumes that means
               | that it is for someone who is not covered by the
               | nationalized health system or that it is a situation not
               | covered by insurance. Typically insurance in the US will
               | only pay for testing if you have symptoms or known
               | contact. If you require testing for travel or
               | occupational purposes, you or your employer would usually
               | foot the bill. Healthcare workers have special
               | exceptions. Probably Canada is similar.
        
               | nucleardog wrote:
               | Private COVID tests.
               | 
               | There's an upper limit to testing capacity, and
               | optimistically the government allocates that capacity in
               | the way it thinks it will do the most good.
               | 
               | They're worried about processing tests from care homes,
               | healthcare workers, suspected positive patients,
               | outbreaks, etc... not old people that want to go to
               | Florida for vacation.
               | 
               | But that doesn't preclude finding a private company that
               | will test you, but the government isn't going to pay for
               | non-medically-necessary medical treatment and testing
               | from a private company.
        
               | thatguy0900 wrote:
               | In the US I just went to a local er and got a 30 min
               | response quick test for 25$ because I felt like my throat
               | was a little itchy, not for any real reason. Are you
               | saying that this wouldn't be an option in Canada? That
               | seems really surprising to me
        
               | monkeybutton wrote:
               | If you experiencing symptoms, the test is free and
               | available through the public system.
        
               | deskamess wrote:
               | Yes, but how soon do you get results. Is it instantaneous
               | or do they call/text your the results?
        
               | na85 wrote:
               | Depends on which test you get but I've seen people who
               | work for me get both same-day results and results within
               | 72 hours.
        
               | daniellarusso wrote:
               | This is not normal in the US in my experience.
        
               | Kluny wrote:
               | Certainly it's an option in Canada. You call the 811 line
               | and say "I coughed" and they have you in for testing
               | later that day. I've done it twice since March. The only
               | use-case for private testing I can imagine is if you need
               | to schedule a test on demand for a border crossing or
               | other specific situation.
        
               | Reason077 wrote:
               | A 30 minute rapid test (aka: lateral flow / antigen test)
               | isn't a reliable way to test for Covid. These tests
               | return a high rate of false negatives. You need to get a
               | lab PCR test if you want an accurate result.
               | 
               | Most countries that require Covid tests before travel
               | require a PCR test for that reason.
        
               | alibarber wrote:
               | Most countries that I know of (even the ones with
               | famously socialised health care) won't actually give you
               | a certificate with the info you need for travel, like
               | passport number and ID verification, for free even if
               | general public testing is free.
        
               | thatguy0900 wrote:
               | Thank you, this makes a lot more sense to me then not
               | being able to get a test
        
           | CyberDildonics wrote:
           | You think people who can afford to fly on helicopters can't
           | get a covid test?
        
       | neartheplain wrote:
       | Reminder that with a ~$25 software-defined radio (SDR) dongle you
       | can receive any aircraft's ADS-B signal, complete with position,
       | altitude, velocity, and flight ID:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Dependent_Surveillan...
       | 
       | https://www.rtl-sdr.com/adsb-aircraft-radar-with-rtl-sdr/
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | And even without an SDR radio, you can head over to
         | https://adsbexchange.com and explore aircraft live in your
         | area!
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | tambeb wrote:
         | I contribute ADS-B data grabbed with SDR to Flightradar24. It's
         | pretty sweet because they give you their Business subscription
         | plan (the highest one, $50/month) for free.
         | 
         | I think you may need at least a free account to see the stats,
         | but in any case these are my two sites:
         | 
         | https://www.flightradar24.com/account/feed-stats/?id=5024
         | 
         | https://www.flightradar24.com/account/feed-stats/?id=23968
        
           | brobinson wrote:
           | Why not https://www.adsbexchange.com ? FR24 filters out
           | military planes.
        
           | multjoy wrote:
           | You can also use the same hardware to feed to Flightaware
           | simultaneously and they'll give you a free enterprise
           | account.
        
             | tambeb wrote:
             | Thanks for the tip, that actually never occurred to me. (No
             | really, I'm not being sarcastic.)
             | 
             | I'll definitely set that up.
        
               | multjoy wrote:
               | There were issues a while ago relating to the MLAT
               | setting, but I set it up a month or so ago on the pi-
               | aware distro feeding to FA first, and then just ran the
               | FR setup utility after that with no issues.
               | 
               | Obviously I've no real need for either of them, but its
               | nice to have for something I was going to run anyway!
        
         | thinkbud wrote:
         | Do any informed US readers here know what are the implications
         | of the FAA ADS-B privacy ICAO address program[0]? Will this
         | reduce the possibility for hobbyists to have oversight over
         | such flight operations?
         | 
         | [0] https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/privacy/
        
       | harpiaharpyja wrote:
       | Makes me wonder if those helicopters being "purchased" by Iraq
       | was just OPSEC.
        
         | steverb wrote:
         | I would have expected them to have changed the number if that
         | were the case.
        
       | pwenzel wrote:
       | This was a similar ordeal in Minneapolis in 2020. When news
       | choppers weren't circling the George Floyd memorial, it was
       | National Guard and State Patrol scanning for civil unrest, or
       | more recently, State Patrol's investigating carjackings:
       | 
       | https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/more-than-40-arres...
       | 
       | I live next to the autonomous zone and the helicopter traffic
       | frequenting our neighborhood always triggers me. During the
       | protests on December 30th we had State Patrol lights shining in
       | our windows.
       | 
       | With all the surveillance and military response to events
       | happening in the country right now, I'm definitely curious to see
       | what these choppers in Los Angeles are up to.
        
       | williesleg wrote:
       | But are they wearing masks?
        
       | mgarfias wrote:
       | alert alex jones
        
       | hamitron wrote:
       | The twitter account @SkyCirclesLA keeps track of these sorts of
       | instances. Definitely worth a follow
        
       | cronix wrote:
       | Portland didn't have helicopters that I'm aware of, but at the
       | height of the multi-month riots over the spring, summer and fall,
       | the Air Force was flying one of these[1] Special Operations
       | Surveillance Planes that they denied were doing any
       | "surveilling." It's interesting that the flight paths happened to
       | coincide with the locations of where the riots happened to be
       | occurring that day and Portland had a No-Fly Zone restriction in
       | place.[2]
       | 
       | [1] https://theintercept.com/2020/07/23/air-force-
       | surveillance-p... [2] https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-
       | protest-flight-res...
        
         | nabilhat wrote:
         | The PPB were renting N50TV (FOX livery and all) for a while and
         | using it to hunt people walking home for enhanced harrassment.
         | The owners of that helicopter didn't feel great about being
         | associated, so PPB moved on to other rentals out of Port
         | Orchards, WA.
         | 
         | Through the summer it was possible to watch C172's on ADSB
         | squawking as IDAHO33 and IDAHO44, circling at 3000ft. They
         | haven't been visible on ADSB in months. I have a great view of
         | the areas they often circle over. They're still active, they're
         | just not squawking. As recently as yesterday afternoon, in
         | fact.
        
         | CydeWeys wrote:
         | > multi-month riots over the spring, summer and fal
         | 
         | There were no multi-month riots this summer. Multi-month
         | protests, yes. But not riots. The riots were much smaller in
         | number and generally only lasted a few days at any one location
         | prior to order being restored (here in NYC we had a few nights
         | of looting that could be described as a riot). Even the
         | infamous 1992 LA riots only lasted a week. Multi- _month_ riots
         | would be downfall-of-society level.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | adolph wrote:
           | Portland doesn't sound like a very nice place.
           | 
           |  _The push to change how the city responds to violence came
           | after dozens of people vandalized businesses on New Year's
           | Eve, spray-painting buildings and breaking windows. At least
           | three people were arrested and police declared the event a
           | riot._
           | 
           | https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2021/01/mayor-ted-
           | wheele...
           | 
           |  _Wheeler was five minutes into a dinner at Cafe Nell with a
           | friend when a small crowd began yelling obscenities at him
           | and soon pushed their way into the outdoor tented area where
           | he was seated, according to Jim Middaugh, the mayor's
           | communications director, who was briefed by the mayor on the
           | incident._
           | 
           | https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2021/01/mayor-ted-
           | wheele...
        
           | StanislavPetrov wrote:
           | There were 30 riots declared by police in Portland alone
           | between May and November (and many more since then). They
           | have a detailed breakdown of riots, fires, projectiles thrown
           | , arrests, ect.
           | 
           | https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/article/765145
        
             | devindotcom wrote:
             | Lot of riots got "declared" here in Seattle too, usually
             | after the cops rushed a stationary peaceful group, and many
             | breakdowns of projectiles and aggression by protestors were
             | publicized by police. But a huge amount of it turned out to
             | be fabricated, exaggerated, or embellished.
        
               | j_walter wrote:
               | These were not fabricated events in Portland. In fact the
               | mayor restricted what the police could do and how far
               | things had to escalate before the police could do
               | anything. Lasers, fireworks, fires, bricks...not much was
               | off limits to the rioters every single night for months.
               | You can claim the group was stationary and peaceful...but
               | there were agitators mixed in and causing problems. There
               | are tons of videos showing the violent tactics being used
               | by rioters...but usually the only ones to make the MSM
               | are when the police responded. Antifa...yes they
               | exist...were well organized and restricted journalists
               | from documenting everything unless they wanted them to.
               | Even the local news reporters were harassed and assaulted
               | by them.
        
           | chrissnell wrote:
           | Not sure what media you watch but before I went to bed, I
           | watched Portland livestreams of very violent "protests".
           | These went on every night for weeks and I watched people
           | throw Molotov cocktails and shoot mortars at law enforcement.
           | Call it what you want, but this shit was happening for over
           | 100 nights in a row.
        
             | alkonaut wrote:
             | > and shoot mortars
             | 
             | Mortars? Are you sure about that? What kind?
             | 
             | Edit: Oh "fireworks mortars". Ffs. Just say fireworks.
        
               | asguy wrote:
               | They were professional fireworks. They were exploding at
               | street and building level multiple times last year. The
               | most recent was downtown on New Years.
        
             | jacobolus wrote:
             | Here's the best summary I have seen of what happened in
             | Portland last year (at least, up through July):
             | 
             | https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2020/07/20/what-
             | you...
             | 
             | There was definitely some vandalism involved (and e.g.
             | people shooting fireworks at the wall of a fortified
             | building), but federal authorities were incredibly
             | disingenuous in their descriptions of events and
             | justifications of escalation.
             | 
             | Most of the dangerous violence was police-on-protestor.
        
               | generalizations wrote:
               | That site leans left-wing. I wouldn't consider them
               | necessarily a good source. You might as well quote Fox
               | news on a right-wing event.
               | 
               | https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bellingcat/
        
               | wtfiswiththis wrote:
               | Trying to compare Bellingcat, which publishes things like
               | investigations into the downing of MH17, to Fox News.
               | That is terrible.
               | 
               | Fox News has entertainment departments, fought in court
               | to have Tucker Carlson lie to his followers with
               | impunity. They republished incitement to ramming attacks.
               | 
               | Bellingcat.. They just do investigations.
               | 
               | If you want to try to break things down into black and
               | white left vs right, at least try to do it with
               | comparable organizations. Or even better, try to refute
               | the substance of the article instead of going to a media
               | bias site to see how you feel they land on the political
               | spectrum.
               | 
               | Even the site you linked has them listed as "left-center"
               | with "high factual reporting." How is this grounds to
               | outright dismiss them? The slightest degree of "leftness"
               | makes you want to exclude sources? Do you have any
               | factual reason to be doing this, or is this your personal
               | bias towards right wing content forcing you to seek means
               | to exclude information you don't like the looks of?
        
               | devindotcom wrote:
               | Honestly, that comparison is very disingenuous just from
               | the information on the site you just linked:
               | 
               | Fox News: "Overall, we rate Fox News strongly Right-
               | Biased due to editorial positions and story selection
               | that favors the right. We also rate them Mixed factually
               | and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and
               | the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be
               | retracted after being widely shared."
               | 
               | Bellingcat: "we rate Bellingcat Left-Center biased based
               | on story selection and positions that moderately favor
               | the left. We also rate them High for factual reporting
               | due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record."
               | 
               | These are vastly, vastly different forms and scales of
               | "bias." They are nearly incomparable.
        
               | refurb wrote:
               | This is the most disingenuous description of what was
               | happening in Portland. I mean, anyone could follow the
               | video on Twitter posted by Antifa. But you're telling me
               | it wasn't a riot?
        
             | addicted wrote:
             | Violent protests that did not lead to the death of a single
             | police officer.
             | 
             | I mean, how violent could they have been.
             | 
             | My personal experience (not as a participant, but rather
             | someone who observed a few protests from a distance) was
             | that they were peaceful until the cops would engage with
             | the protestors to impose the curfews that many cities had
             | established.
             | 
             | And then the violence was largely 1 sided.
        
               | fpgaminer wrote:
               | > Violent protests that did not lead to the death of a
               | single police officer.
               | 
               | I did some quick fact checking, just for my own peace of
               | mind. I view the George Floyd protests as overall
               | peaceful, but it's good to question one's understanding.
               | So for what it's worth Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.or
               | g/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Portl...) lists one
               | casualty. I'm guessing that was the August 29th event,
               | which wasn't a police officer.
               | 
               | So yeah, seems you're right, and that's an important fact
               | to keep in mind. 7 months of protests with only one dead,
               | in an area people keep arguing is the worst of the BLM
               | protests.
        
             | newnamenewface wrote:
             | Mortars or fireworks? That said, I agree that there were
             | certainly protests that consistently became violent at
             | night time for the span of at least weeks, maybe months.
        
               | ndiscussion wrote:
               | What's the difference when it blows up in your face?
               | Throwing explosives in urban centers is unacceptable and
               | violent.
        
               | catlifeonmars wrote:
               | Mortars are a hell of a lot more lethal any consumer
               | firework. So, yes there is a difference. Mortars also
               | need to be used at range (100s of meters to kilometers)
               | to be effective. I highly doubt mortars were in use.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > Mortars are a hell of a lot more lethal any consumer
               | firework.
               | 
               | Well, some mortars are. Other mortars _are_ consumer
               | fireworks.
        
               | tclancy wrote:
               | What's the difference between mortars and fireworks?
               | Damage. Suggesting people were dropping a plate, siting a
               | mortar and undermining a building is a much stronger
               | image than "Some bro threw an M-80 near some stuff." I am
               | not downplaying the violence as I wasn't there, just
               | pointing out the difference.
        
               | TheRealSteel wrote:
               | You don't like people being violent towards other people?
               | 
               | That bothers you huh?
               | 
               | Hmmmm, maybe the protests are effectively proving their
               | point then.
        
               | wavefunction wrote:
               | Well US Army mortars tend to be 60-107mm in calibre and
               | designed for anti-infantry use while fireworks are
               | generally designed for aesthetic effects. There is
               | certainly some overlap in the capability of fireworks and
               | mortars to render damage to individuals and groups but
               | this is generally a very limited shared range of effect,
               | with mortars being explicitly designed to kill or
               | incapacitate human targets.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > Mortars or fireworks?
               | 
               | "Mortars" and "fireworks" are overlapping categories.
               | 
               | https://fireworks.com/products/aerial/reloadable-mortars
        
               | jacobolus wrote:
               | When someone says "I watched people throw Molotov
               | cocktails and shoot mortars at law enforcement", the
               | obvious implication is that we are talking about the type
               | of military hardware pictured and described at
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortar_(weapon) being used
               | to intentionally injure or kill a group of people, not a
               | toy version intended for making a celebratory burst of
               | color being launched against the side of a building.
               | 
               | There was at least one molotov cocktail captured on
               | camera in September landing in the street between a group
               | of protestors and a line of cops, though it is not clear
               | whether anyone was injured by it.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > When someone says "I watched people throw Molotov
               | cocktails and shoot mortars at law enforcement", the
               | obvious implication is that we are talking about the type
               | of military hardware pictured and described at
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortar_(weapon) being used
               | to intentionally injure or kill a group of people, not a
               | toy version intended for making a celebratory burst of
               | color being launched against the side of a building.
               | 
               | I...disagree.
               | 
               | If I heard "small arms and mortars", I'd think of the
               | military weapon. (Or "rockets and mortars", without other
               | context.)
               | 
               | If I hear "molotov cocktails and mortars", though, I'd
               | think of either the fireworks or some improvised device,
               | but not miltary hardware unless there was some other
               | contextual indication favoring the latter. While its
               | obviously not _impossible_ for a group to both be using
               | Molotov cocktails _and_ have access to military heavy
               | weapons, that's not really, to me, the normal
               | association.
        
               | venatiodecorus wrote:
               | well aren't you one special little snowflake
        
       | Dnguyen wrote:
       | There are reports of a person flying around LA airspace with a
       | jet pack. Maybe that's why the helicopter is there, to catch that
       | person?
        
       | SrslyJosh wrote:
       | Ditto for San Jose lately. Lots of low circling at night.
       | 
       | Edit: Here's an example:
       | https://fr24.com/2021-01-08/05:10/12x/EC20/2683abc3
        
       | lloydatkinson wrote:
       | I wonder if this is related to the mysterious jet pack man that
       | keeps flying over LA?
        
       | tastyfreeze wrote:
       | I am amazed and appreciative at how quickly real, informative
       | news hits the internet. Even if nothing comes from added aerial
       | surveillance, the world knows it is happening.
        
       | Simulacra wrote:
       | Has anyone heard any more about the Los Angeles program to fly
       | airplanes around the city during the day to record everything
       | that happens, similar to what they did in Baltimore?
       | 
       | https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-baltimore-secret-sur...
        
       | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
       | Keep an eye on the helicopter colors. Are the unmarked
       | helicopters circling the area black? Probably World Government.
       | Not a good area for play that day.
       | 
       | Are they blue? That's the Sheriff's Secret Police. They'll keep a
       | good eye on your kids, and hardly ever take one.
       | 
       | Are they painted with complex murals depicting birds of prey
       | diving? No one knows what those helicopters are, or what they
       | want. Do not play in the area. Return to your home and lock the
       | doors until a Sheriff's Secret Policeman leaves a carnation on
       | your porch to indicate that the danger has passed. Cover your
       | ears to blot out the screams.
       | 
       | http://www.nightvalepresents.com/welcome-to-night-vale-trans...
        
         | makz wrote:
         | World Government? what's that?
        
           | wiml wrote:
           | _Welcome to Night Vale_ is a fiction podcast in the form of a
           | radio show from a remote small town in which all sorts of
           | strange things happen -- aliens, vast conspiracies, mad
           | cultists, supernatural beings, etc etc. Straddles the line
           | between dryly funny and legitimately creepy. It 's worth a
           | listen if you enjoy that kind of thing.
        
           | mfkp wrote:
           | The Illuminati, of course.
        
           | waiseristy wrote:
           | Oh boy are you in for a treat
           | 
           | https://www.wikiwand.com/en/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theo.
           | ..
        
         | protomyth wrote:
         | _Keep an eye on the helicopter colors. Are the unmarked
         | helicopters circling the area black? Probably World
         | Government._
         | 
         | We had a drug task force mass arrest staged a few years back. I
         | swear the DEA and other agencies did everything they could to
         | kick up the paranoia. It was unreal how they checked all the
         | 'conspiracy nut' boxes in one operation.
         | 
         | They cut the internet and cell phones in the area. Real nice
         | since we had an online class going. They drove around in black
         | SUVs and, just so stupid, had black helicopters flying
         | overhead. I guess they did arrest some people, but I question
         | that too. I'm sure someone was super pleased with themselves.
        
           | c3534l wrote:
           | I've definitely gotten the impression that some agencies
           | really get a kick out of feeling like badasses on super-
           | secret missions and the whole thing is just tax-payer
           | playtime for bored cops who want to feel special.
        
             | throwaway0a5e wrote:
             | The less useful they are the more they try and act
             | important.
             | 
             | ATF, DEA, DHS, etc are always making big scenes because
             | "look, we're doing things, we justify our budget" whereas
             | the FBI just does their job without fanfare.
        
           | scrps wrote:
           | You gotta put on a good show for the "tough on crime" crowd
           | plus how do you expect them to justify funding if they aren't
           | geared up like they are staging a raid on a terrorist
           | stronghold to arrest some 20 year old for a couple of grams
           | of meth (or someone growing okra1)? They are fighting the
           | "War on Drugs" after all.2
           | 
           | [1]: https://time.com/3479728/marijuana-okra-police/
           | 
           | [2]: I say this with as much sarcasm as I can currently
           | muster
        
         | FinnLeSueur wrote:
         | Oh man, Welcome to Night Vale is fantastic. I'm glad to see a
         | reference!
        
       | openasocket wrote:
       | When I lived in Northern Virginia I saw a lot of helicopters
       | flying over my apartment building, and not just the usual news
       | and police helicopters. More than once I saw 4 uh-60s flying over
       | in formation, and some uh-60s and uh-72s with a distinctive black
       | and gold stripe color scheme. I did some research online and
       | found that there were people in this region fascinated with
       | identifying and cataloguing all of these aircraft, almost like
       | bird watching. I found out they were likely stationed at the
       | Pentagon. The black and gold ones are VIP transport helicopters,
       | meant for transporting members of congress and cabinet members,
       | particularly for evacuations in an emergency. I also saw marine
       | one a couple times, though since it was alone I believe it didn't
       | have POTUS in it at the time (when POTUS is actually in there
       | they fly several identical helicopters in formation so you don't
       | know which has the president). My apartment was roughly under the
       | direct route between Andrews AB and DC, and pretty close to the
       | pentagon, my guess is it was a convenient route for training and
       | drilling.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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