[HN Gopher] Mysterious helicopters have been circling Los Angeles
___________________________________________________________________
Mysterious helicopters have been circling Los Angeles
Author : josephjrobison
Score : 154 points
Date : 2021-01-14 16:19 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
| asdff wrote:
| It shouldn't be that other worldly in socal. This is the land of
| the helicopter, where Kobe (may he rest in peace) used to commute
| to the staples center on helicopter. Where elon musk also
| commutes by air rather than by his own tesla car. Where the LAPD
| flies at least two helicopters between 8am-4am every single day
| regardless of what the radio calls for. In fact, I'm working
| outside and hear one above right now, by the looks of it, its a
| small grey personal helicopter. Just after I wrote this I am
| hearing a second one, navy blue with a yellow callsign on the
| tail, probably another personal craft.
| donatj wrote:
| The most curious part to me is that all these photos of the
| helicopters were taken by cameras without rolling shutters.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| Most cameras that can take good images of helicopters in flight
| have a mechanical shutter available.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| Thats only there to protect the sensor. There will be an
| electronic shutter too.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| Not really. Most interchangeable lens cameras do not have a
| purely electronic shutter, it's a very new feature.
|
| Those that do, do not have it as the default mode. There is
| also the electronic first curtain shutter, but that is way
| closer to a mechanical shutter than to an electronic
| shutter.
| PointyFluff wrote:
| Such as?
|
| Citation needed.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| Pretty much every single camera that has interchangeable
| lenses, and thus can mount a telephoto objective sufficient
| for taking good pictures of helicopters has a mechanical
| shutter. From the Sony alpha series, to Nikon DSLRs, to the
| Canon EOS line, and so on.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| Probably taken with cameras with mechanical shutters? That
| doesn't seem very curious.
| daysigh wrote:
| I see we have a man of culture here.
| mdoms wrote:
| This isn't reddit. Keep these comments to yourself.
| donatj wrote:
| This is the persons very first comment. Assuming good faith
| on their part, and that they are new to HN, there's no need
| to be rude.
|
| We want to foster a friendly community here.
| uoaei wrote:
| That wasn't rude. It was direct.
| mwambua wrote:
| I found it rude and indirect. It would have been nice of
| them to point out why the comment is unhelpful, rather
| than just saying "This isn't reddit"
| texasbigdata wrote:
| The best part though, is not the initial response or the
| counter, it's the fact the "commons" is so valued you
| have this sort of meta self-regulation taking place to
| rebalance to equilibrium. Super cool and wish, well
| basically everything else in life was like that.
| blululu wrote:
| Meta-comment: that is nice of you to check the OP's
| submission history. It does add context and the response,
| while valid was maybe a little harsh in light of the
| poster's newness. It might be nice if there were an easy
| way to tell if a poster is new (or a throwaway) for such
| context.
| 1f60c wrote:
| The usernames of new users are colored green for the
| first two weeks (or so) after they've signed up.
| [deleted]
| ISL wrote:
| Having serendipitously dipped a toe into the avgeek waters, it
| doesn't seem so surprising to me. In a major metropolitan area,
| you can bank on people listening to ATC traffic and camping out
| near airfields with good-enough cameras at almost any time. In
| the avgeek world, one can earn both personal satisfaction and
| kudos for novel aircraft, so they are especially desirable.
|
| Even a beginner is likely to have an imaging system that is
| plenty good, with a mechanical shutter. The atmospheric shimmer
| in the third image suggests that it was made with a longer
| lens; probably not a beginner.
|
| The President of the United States can't fly over Britain on a
| secret trip without getting photographed by a semi-retired IT
| manager: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/27/air-
| force-on...
|
| It is really great to see distributed citizen-journalism
| happening.
| wkearney99 wrote:
| I read that as "disturbed citizen-journalism" and, honestly,
| it'd still work.
| CobsterLock wrote:
| It is super cool that there is a community around this
| KaiserPro wrote:
| I don't think we can draw that conclusion.
|
| Its the middle of the day with no cloud, so there is plenty of
| light. That means we can up the shutter speed to the point
| where rolling shutter is negligible.
|
| I have a nikon d7000, which has a rolling shutter. Its only
| really noticeable when I'm recording video, or when there is
| _lots_ of movement inside the shutter time. at 1/3200th of
| second, thats a lot of movement.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| While that's true, a smartphone even at 1/3200th will have a
| 30th of a second or so of rolling shutter.
| Sharlin wrote:
| The D7000, like all system cameras, has a mechanical shutter
| it uses when taking photos. Even though technically "rolling"
| as well, it is _much_ faster than a typical electronic
| shutter due to the way a CMOS sensor must be read out. Phone
| cameras have no physical shutters and use e-shutter all the
| time, but your D7000 only resorts to it when shooting video.
|
| As a rule of thumb, it takes several milliseconds for a
| mechanical shutter to traverse the sensor plane, but it takes
| several _tens_ of milliseconds for an e-shutter to readout
| the sensor. Shutter speed does not affect this; even at 1
| /4000s or 1/8000s or whatever the time difference between the
| top and the bottom of a photo remains the same.
| trhway wrote:
| hunting for the jetpack man i guess. In general with jetpacks and
| drones of all sizes, including human carrying, the airspace is to
| become more lively and entertaining with coming years - for
| example police in Japan is using drones with nets to catch drug
| carrying drones, so the drug traffickers started to use drones
| with nets to catch those police drones...
| handmodel wrote:
| The route they took wasn't particularly close to where the
| jetbacks were spotted. I don't think it is that - although I
| don't know enough about aviation to know what they were doing
| or how rare of an occurrence they are.
| asdff wrote:
| Helicopters are practically a native bird here, they are
| incredibly common. I've been working outside for the past
| hour and spotted my third flying overhead already in that
| time span. LAPD also always has at least two birds in the air
| for like 20 hours out of the day, but there are tons and tons
| of private operators and just plain old rich people who
| commute like this (most famously probably Kobe Bryant given
| he recently died commuting by helicopter).
| thewebcount wrote:
| As far as how rare they are - helicopters in LA are a daily
| occurrence. I used to live in Mar Vista, just a few blocks
| from Venice Beach, and they flew over our house every night.
| There were times when they flew so low they caused the water
| in our pool to ripple (though that was rare). Now I'm down in
| Westchester, and we get fewer, but they're still around
| frequently. I saw some yesterday, but think they were just
| regular LAPD, and not these particular ones. (And looking at
| the map of their route, they didn't fly over us.)
| raphaelcosta wrote:
| How many conspiracy theories people will create/associate using
| that story?
| mikestew wrote:
| Black helicopters? Conspiracy? There's even a Wikipedia page:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_helicopter
|
| Now, just like every other conspiracy nut, I'd like to state
| upfront that I'm no conspiracy theorist. However, over the
| years "seeing black helicopters" has been an insult used by
| some. Yet I used to see them parked out in the open at the
| National Guard base along I-70 in eastern Indiana like 25-30
| years ago. And here we have photos published by not-
| disreputable source. Make of it what you will.
| MikeTheGreat wrote:
| Are you saying that 25-30 year old helicopters from eastern
| Indiana are now circling LA?
| zamadatix wrote:
| I think it's pretty clear they are saying people would say
| you're a nutter for saying unmarked helicopters are used by
| government agencies yet he knew them to exist even back
| then. Not sure where you picked up that they were the same
| exact helicopters.
| airstrike wrote:
| Now I feel like watching every movie listed in the "Fictional
| representations" section
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_helicopter#Fictional_rep.
| ..
| digikata wrote:
| Similar reports of helicopters in my community were aerial
| inspections of the electrical grid being conducted by So Cal
| Edison.
| vidanay wrote:
| That sounds exactly like a Karen: The power company started the
| fires due to lack of maintenance! Why is the power company
| flying helicopters and disturbing me?
| digikata wrote:
| I don't think the utility had sent out any community notices.
| So when helis loiter around a little lower and slower than
| normal I think it's natural to be curious. Particularly when
| they show up on a daily basis for maybe a few weeks to a
| month.
| ravenstine wrote:
| For the past few years I've called Pasadena(I live in the general
| area) the "land of helicopters", but I didn't know that LA in
| general was seeing something similar recently. People keep
| telling me that Pasadena/SGV must be a good place to train
| helicopter pilots, but I don't buy it.
|
| It's been a while since I've bothered to actually look at these
| helicopters, but a lot of them are pretty nondescript. Not
| obvious news or police helicopters.
|
| Then again, I just realized that "Helicopter Hell" is more
| alliterative.
| Animats wrote:
| A flight all the way around greater LA while following freeways
| suggests a training mission. What they're training for is another
| issue.
| asdff wrote:
| Pretty much all helicopter flight paths going through LA follow
| freeways to navigate, that doesn't suggest anything.
| ericcholis wrote:
| Similarly, there's been an increase in helicopter traffic in
| Western New York. But, we do know why. It's Canadian snowbirds
| trying to skip the border shutdown to head to Florida
| https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/local/canadians-buzz-throu...
| Triv888 wrote:
| They can still fly to come down here (but if they want to bring
| their car, they need to ship it down). It is packed with
| Canadians down south Florida.
| deskamess wrote:
| Many have also jumped the queue to get free COVID shots
| (Tampa had a recent news report). One couple said they booked
| shots (4 weeks in the future) for their friends who are still
| in Canada (they will travel down shortly). Not sure how this
| is permitted although it makes scientific sense (anyone can
| transmit).
|
| The US is currently well ahead of Canada in per-capita COVID
| delivery.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| It's probably a rounding error after one considers that
| there are probably some Americans in Canada, but Canada has
| three vaccinations (not just 3 _doses_ ) per citizen while
| the US only has 1 and change. It would be a bummer if
| Canadians were consuming the more limited US vaccinations
| in meaningful numbers. I'm "picking on" Canada here because
| while America has a lot of medical tourism from South
| America, it tends to be out of necessity (worse medical
| infrastructure and so on) as opposed to impatience.
| deskamess wrote:
| But the vaccines are not getting into arms. In theory
| there are 3 vaccines and if others are approved and ramp
| up production (like Oxford) then the rate can increase.
| Right now, that is all theoretical and total coverage is
| scheduled for early September 2021. That does not include
| children (<16) since I am not sure there is a children's
| variant.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| Nevertheless, it's still vaccines that other countries
| can't use, and presumably other countries weren't
| expecting to provide Canadians' vaccinations when they
| were purchasing their vaccination stock.
| tenpies wrote:
| > The US is currently well ahead of Canada in per-capita
| COVID delivery.
|
| The US is actually well ahead of most of the world,
| especially when you factor population and geography [1].
| Sure, Israel has crushed everyone, but I think we can all
| agree there are exceptional circumstances which make this
| easier in Israel than in most other countries. Other
| success stories have been largely small, wealthy countries.
|
| It's a shame that the US media is so politicized as to not
| recognize Operation Warp Speed and the men and women - from
| researchers, to logisticians, to clinicians - who have made
| this possible. It has been an absolute miracle of human
| achievement and will hopefully be celebrated by historians,
| since the current generation refuses to do so.
|
| ---
|
| [1] https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
| gamblor956 wrote:
| It's a shame that current administration is trying to
| take credit for work that began more than a decade ago
| with SARS, as that work was the foundation for the SARS2
| (aka COVID) vaccines...and indeed, what we think of as
| the COVID vaccine began life as the SARS vaccine.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| This is pretty remarkable. I wonder why numbers in so
| many European countries are so much lower?
| pbourke wrote:
| Probably this will be discontinued now that the US will require
| a negative COVID test prior to entry via air.
| ikpomtdk wrote:
| These passengers were still subject to quarantine
| requirements (enforcement may be a different story). There
| are no direct flights between Toronto and Buffalo so the
| helicopter charters were filling this gap, while also
| skirting the physical border closures.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| Given the up to 10k they are paying for flights and to have
| their RVs driven across the boarder (yes, commercial drivers
| can cross in RVs) a few hundred dollars for a covid test
| won't be an issue. Private covid tests in canada cost about
| 250$.
| sokoloff wrote:
| The helicopter flight is $1200 for up to 3 pax:
| https://greatlakeshelicopter.ca/flights-to-the-u-s-a/ and
| an RV shuttle looks to be $1600.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| You have to pay $250 in Canada for a covid test?
| singlow wrote:
| He specified private COVID Test. I assumes that means
| that it is for someone who is not covered by the
| nationalized health system or that it is a situation not
| covered by insurance. Typically insurance in the US will
| only pay for testing if you have symptoms or known
| contact. If you require testing for travel or
| occupational purposes, you or your employer would usually
| foot the bill. Healthcare workers have special
| exceptions. Probably Canada is similar.
| nucleardog wrote:
| Private COVID tests.
|
| There's an upper limit to testing capacity, and
| optimistically the government allocates that capacity in
| the way it thinks it will do the most good.
|
| They're worried about processing tests from care homes,
| healthcare workers, suspected positive patients,
| outbreaks, etc... not old people that want to go to
| Florida for vacation.
|
| But that doesn't preclude finding a private company that
| will test you, but the government isn't going to pay for
| non-medically-necessary medical treatment and testing
| from a private company.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| In the US I just went to a local er and got a 30 min
| response quick test for 25$ because I felt like my throat
| was a little itchy, not for any real reason. Are you
| saying that this wouldn't be an option in Canada? That
| seems really surprising to me
| monkeybutton wrote:
| If you experiencing symptoms, the test is free and
| available through the public system.
| deskamess wrote:
| Yes, but how soon do you get results. Is it instantaneous
| or do they call/text your the results?
| na85 wrote:
| Depends on which test you get but I've seen people who
| work for me get both same-day results and results within
| 72 hours.
| daniellarusso wrote:
| This is not normal in the US in my experience.
| Kluny wrote:
| Certainly it's an option in Canada. You call the 811 line
| and say "I coughed" and they have you in for testing
| later that day. I've done it twice since March. The only
| use-case for private testing I can imagine is if you need
| to schedule a test on demand for a border crossing or
| other specific situation.
| Reason077 wrote:
| A 30 minute rapid test (aka: lateral flow / antigen test)
| isn't a reliable way to test for Covid. These tests
| return a high rate of false negatives. You need to get a
| lab PCR test if you want an accurate result.
|
| Most countries that require Covid tests before travel
| require a PCR test for that reason.
| alibarber wrote:
| Most countries that I know of (even the ones with
| famously socialised health care) won't actually give you
| a certificate with the info you need for travel, like
| passport number and ID verification, for free even if
| general public testing is free.
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| Thank you, this makes a lot more sense to me then not
| being able to get a test
| CyberDildonics wrote:
| You think people who can afford to fly on helicopters can't
| get a covid test?
| neartheplain wrote:
| Reminder that with a ~$25 software-defined radio (SDR) dongle you
| can receive any aircraft's ADS-B signal, complete with position,
| altitude, velocity, and flight ID:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Dependent_Surveillan...
|
| https://www.rtl-sdr.com/adsb-aircraft-radar-with-rtl-sdr/
| runjake wrote:
| And even without an SDR radio, you can head over to
| https://adsbexchange.com and explore aircraft live in your
| area!
| [deleted]
| tambeb wrote:
| I contribute ADS-B data grabbed with SDR to Flightradar24. It's
| pretty sweet because they give you their Business subscription
| plan (the highest one, $50/month) for free.
|
| I think you may need at least a free account to see the stats,
| but in any case these are my two sites:
|
| https://www.flightradar24.com/account/feed-stats/?id=5024
|
| https://www.flightradar24.com/account/feed-stats/?id=23968
| brobinson wrote:
| Why not https://www.adsbexchange.com ? FR24 filters out
| military planes.
| multjoy wrote:
| You can also use the same hardware to feed to Flightaware
| simultaneously and they'll give you a free enterprise
| account.
| tambeb wrote:
| Thanks for the tip, that actually never occurred to me. (No
| really, I'm not being sarcastic.)
|
| I'll definitely set that up.
| multjoy wrote:
| There were issues a while ago relating to the MLAT
| setting, but I set it up a month or so ago on the pi-
| aware distro feeding to FA first, and then just ran the
| FR setup utility after that with no issues.
|
| Obviously I've no real need for either of them, but its
| nice to have for something I was going to run anyway!
| thinkbud wrote:
| Do any informed US readers here know what are the implications
| of the FAA ADS-B privacy ICAO address program[0]? Will this
| reduce the possibility for hobbyists to have oversight over
| such flight operations?
|
| [0] https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/privacy/
| harpiaharpyja wrote:
| Makes me wonder if those helicopters being "purchased" by Iraq
| was just OPSEC.
| steverb wrote:
| I would have expected them to have changed the number if that
| were the case.
| pwenzel wrote:
| This was a similar ordeal in Minneapolis in 2020. When news
| choppers weren't circling the George Floyd memorial, it was
| National Guard and State Patrol scanning for civil unrest, or
| more recently, State Patrol's investigating carjackings:
|
| https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/more-than-40-arres...
|
| I live next to the autonomous zone and the helicopter traffic
| frequenting our neighborhood always triggers me. During the
| protests on December 30th we had State Patrol lights shining in
| our windows.
|
| With all the surveillance and military response to events
| happening in the country right now, I'm definitely curious to see
| what these choppers in Los Angeles are up to.
| williesleg wrote:
| But are they wearing masks?
| mgarfias wrote:
| alert alex jones
| hamitron wrote:
| The twitter account @SkyCirclesLA keeps track of these sorts of
| instances. Definitely worth a follow
| cronix wrote:
| Portland didn't have helicopters that I'm aware of, but at the
| height of the multi-month riots over the spring, summer and fall,
| the Air Force was flying one of these[1] Special Operations
| Surveillance Planes that they denied were doing any
| "surveilling." It's interesting that the flight paths happened to
| coincide with the locations of where the riots happened to be
| occurring that day and Portland had a No-Fly Zone restriction in
| place.[2]
|
| [1] https://theintercept.com/2020/07/23/air-force-
| surveillance-p... [2] https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-
| protest-flight-res...
| nabilhat wrote:
| The PPB were renting N50TV (FOX livery and all) for a while and
| using it to hunt people walking home for enhanced harrassment.
| The owners of that helicopter didn't feel great about being
| associated, so PPB moved on to other rentals out of Port
| Orchards, WA.
|
| Through the summer it was possible to watch C172's on ADSB
| squawking as IDAHO33 and IDAHO44, circling at 3000ft. They
| haven't been visible on ADSB in months. I have a great view of
| the areas they often circle over. They're still active, they're
| just not squawking. As recently as yesterday afternoon, in
| fact.
| CydeWeys wrote:
| > multi-month riots over the spring, summer and fal
|
| There were no multi-month riots this summer. Multi-month
| protests, yes. But not riots. The riots were much smaller in
| number and generally only lasted a few days at any one location
| prior to order being restored (here in NYC we had a few nights
| of looting that could be described as a riot). Even the
| infamous 1992 LA riots only lasted a week. Multi- _month_ riots
| would be downfall-of-society level.
| [deleted]
| adolph wrote:
| Portland doesn't sound like a very nice place.
|
| _The push to change how the city responds to violence came
| after dozens of people vandalized businesses on New Year's
| Eve, spray-painting buildings and breaking windows. At least
| three people were arrested and police declared the event a
| riot._
|
| https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2021/01/mayor-ted-
| wheele...
|
| _Wheeler was five minutes into a dinner at Cafe Nell with a
| friend when a small crowd began yelling obscenities at him
| and soon pushed their way into the outdoor tented area where
| he was seated, according to Jim Middaugh, the mayor's
| communications director, who was briefed by the mayor on the
| incident._
|
| https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2021/01/mayor-ted-
| wheele...
| StanislavPetrov wrote:
| There were 30 riots declared by police in Portland alone
| between May and November (and many more since then). They
| have a detailed breakdown of riots, fires, projectiles thrown
| , arrests, ect.
|
| https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/article/765145
| devindotcom wrote:
| Lot of riots got "declared" here in Seattle too, usually
| after the cops rushed a stationary peaceful group, and many
| breakdowns of projectiles and aggression by protestors were
| publicized by police. But a huge amount of it turned out to
| be fabricated, exaggerated, or embellished.
| j_walter wrote:
| These were not fabricated events in Portland. In fact the
| mayor restricted what the police could do and how far
| things had to escalate before the police could do
| anything. Lasers, fireworks, fires, bricks...not much was
| off limits to the rioters every single night for months.
| You can claim the group was stationary and peaceful...but
| there were agitators mixed in and causing problems. There
| are tons of videos showing the violent tactics being used
| by rioters...but usually the only ones to make the MSM
| are when the police responded. Antifa...yes they
| exist...were well organized and restricted journalists
| from documenting everything unless they wanted them to.
| Even the local news reporters were harassed and assaulted
| by them.
| chrissnell wrote:
| Not sure what media you watch but before I went to bed, I
| watched Portland livestreams of very violent "protests".
| These went on every night for weeks and I watched people
| throw Molotov cocktails and shoot mortars at law enforcement.
| Call it what you want, but this shit was happening for over
| 100 nights in a row.
| alkonaut wrote:
| > and shoot mortars
|
| Mortars? Are you sure about that? What kind?
|
| Edit: Oh "fireworks mortars". Ffs. Just say fireworks.
| asguy wrote:
| They were professional fireworks. They were exploding at
| street and building level multiple times last year. The
| most recent was downtown on New Years.
| jacobolus wrote:
| Here's the best summary I have seen of what happened in
| Portland last year (at least, up through July):
|
| https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2020/07/20/what-
| you...
|
| There was definitely some vandalism involved (and e.g.
| people shooting fireworks at the wall of a fortified
| building), but federal authorities were incredibly
| disingenuous in their descriptions of events and
| justifications of escalation.
|
| Most of the dangerous violence was police-on-protestor.
| generalizations wrote:
| That site leans left-wing. I wouldn't consider them
| necessarily a good source. You might as well quote Fox
| news on a right-wing event.
|
| https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bellingcat/
| wtfiswiththis wrote:
| Trying to compare Bellingcat, which publishes things like
| investigations into the downing of MH17, to Fox News.
| That is terrible.
|
| Fox News has entertainment departments, fought in court
| to have Tucker Carlson lie to his followers with
| impunity. They republished incitement to ramming attacks.
|
| Bellingcat.. They just do investigations.
|
| If you want to try to break things down into black and
| white left vs right, at least try to do it with
| comparable organizations. Or even better, try to refute
| the substance of the article instead of going to a media
| bias site to see how you feel they land on the political
| spectrum.
|
| Even the site you linked has them listed as "left-center"
| with "high factual reporting." How is this grounds to
| outright dismiss them? The slightest degree of "leftness"
| makes you want to exclude sources? Do you have any
| factual reason to be doing this, or is this your personal
| bias towards right wing content forcing you to seek means
| to exclude information you don't like the looks of?
| devindotcom wrote:
| Honestly, that comparison is very disingenuous just from
| the information on the site you just linked:
|
| Fox News: "Overall, we rate Fox News strongly Right-
| Biased due to editorial positions and story selection
| that favors the right. We also rate them Mixed factually
| and borderline Questionable based on poor sourcing and
| the spreading of conspiracy theories that later must be
| retracted after being widely shared."
|
| Bellingcat: "we rate Bellingcat Left-Center biased based
| on story selection and positions that moderately favor
| the left. We also rate them High for factual reporting
| due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record."
|
| These are vastly, vastly different forms and scales of
| "bias." They are nearly incomparable.
| refurb wrote:
| This is the most disingenuous description of what was
| happening in Portland. I mean, anyone could follow the
| video on Twitter posted by Antifa. But you're telling me
| it wasn't a riot?
| addicted wrote:
| Violent protests that did not lead to the death of a single
| police officer.
|
| I mean, how violent could they have been.
|
| My personal experience (not as a participant, but rather
| someone who observed a few protests from a distance) was
| that they were peaceful until the cops would engage with
| the protestors to impose the curfews that many cities had
| established.
|
| And then the violence was largely 1 sided.
| fpgaminer wrote:
| > Violent protests that did not lead to the death of a
| single police officer.
|
| I did some quick fact checking, just for my own peace of
| mind. I view the George Floyd protests as overall
| peaceful, but it's good to question one's understanding.
| So for what it's worth Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.or
| g/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Portl...) lists one
| casualty. I'm guessing that was the August 29th event,
| which wasn't a police officer.
|
| So yeah, seems you're right, and that's an important fact
| to keep in mind. 7 months of protests with only one dead,
| in an area people keep arguing is the worst of the BLM
| protests.
| newnamenewface wrote:
| Mortars or fireworks? That said, I agree that there were
| certainly protests that consistently became violent at
| night time for the span of at least weeks, maybe months.
| ndiscussion wrote:
| What's the difference when it blows up in your face?
| Throwing explosives in urban centers is unacceptable and
| violent.
| catlifeonmars wrote:
| Mortars are a hell of a lot more lethal any consumer
| firework. So, yes there is a difference. Mortars also
| need to be used at range (100s of meters to kilometers)
| to be effective. I highly doubt mortars were in use.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Mortars are a hell of a lot more lethal any consumer
| firework.
|
| Well, some mortars are. Other mortars _are_ consumer
| fireworks.
| tclancy wrote:
| What's the difference between mortars and fireworks?
| Damage. Suggesting people were dropping a plate, siting a
| mortar and undermining a building is a much stronger
| image than "Some bro threw an M-80 near some stuff." I am
| not downplaying the violence as I wasn't there, just
| pointing out the difference.
| TheRealSteel wrote:
| You don't like people being violent towards other people?
|
| That bothers you huh?
|
| Hmmmm, maybe the protests are effectively proving their
| point then.
| wavefunction wrote:
| Well US Army mortars tend to be 60-107mm in calibre and
| designed for anti-infantry use while fireworks are
| generally designed for aesthetic effects. There is
| certainly some overlap in the capability of fireworks and
| mortars to render damage to individuals and groups but
| this is generally a very limited shared range of effect,
| with mortars being explicitly designed to kill or
| incapacitate human targets.
| [deleted]
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Mortars or fireworks?
|
| "Mortars" and "fireworks" are overlapping categories.
|
| https://fireworks.com/products/aerial/reloadable-mortars
| jacobolus wrote:
| When someone says "I watched people throw Molotov
| cocktails and shoot mortars at law enforcement", the
| obvious implication is that we are talking about the type
| of military hardware pictured and described at
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortar_(weapon) being used
| to intentionally injure or kill a group of people, not a
| toy version intended for making a celebratory burst of
| color being launched against the side of a building.
|
| There was at least one molotov cocktail captured on
| camera in September landing in the street between a group
| of protestors and a line of cops, though it is not clear
| whether anyone was injured by it.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > When someone says "I watched people throw Molotov
| cocktails and shoot mortars at law enforcement", the
| obvious implication is that we are talking about the type
| of military hardware pictured and described at
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortar_(weapon) being used
| to intentionally injure or kill a group of people, not a
| toy version intended for making a celebratory burst of
| color being launched against the side of a building.
|
| I...disagree.
|
| If I heard "small arms and mortars", I'd think of the
| military weapon. (Or "rockets and mortars", without other
| context.)
|
| If I hear "molotov cocktails and mortars", though, I'd
| think of either the fireworks or some improvised device,
| but not miltary hardware unless there was some other
| contextual indication favoring the latter. While its
| obviously not _impossible_ for a group to both be using
| Molotov cocktails _and_ have access to military heavy
| weapons, that's not really, to me, the normal
| association.
| venatiodecorus wrote:
| well aren't you one special little snowflake
| Dnguyen wrote:
| There are reports of a person flying around LA airspace with a
| jet pack. Maybe that's why the helicopter is there, to catch that
| person?
| SrslyJosh wrote:
| Ditto for San Jose lately. Lots of low circling at night.
|
| Edit: Here's an example:
| https://fr24.com/2021-01-08/05:10/12x/EC20/2683abc3
| lloydatkinson wrote:
| I wonder if this is related to the mysterious jet pack man that
| keeps flying over LA?
| tastyfreeze wrote:
| I am amazed and appreciative at how quickly real, informative
| news hits the internet. Even if nothing comes from added aerial
| surveillance, the world knows it is happening.
| Simulacra wrote:
| Has anyone heard any more about the Los Angeles program to fly
| airplanes around the city during the day to record everything
| that happens, similar to what they did in Baltimore?
|
| https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-baltimore-secret-sur...
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| Keep an eye on the helicopter colors. Are the unmarked
| helicopters circling the area black? Probably World Government.
| Not a good area for play that day.
|
| Are they blue? That's the Sheriff's Secret Police. They'll keep a
| good eye on your kids, and hardly ever take one.
|
| Are they painted with complex murals depicting birds of prey
| diving? No one knows what those helicopters are, or what they
| want. Do not play in the area. Return to your home and lock the
| doors until a Sheriff's Secret Policeman leaves a carnation on
| your porch to indicate that the danger has passed. Cover your
| ears to blot out the screams.
|
| http://www.nightvalepresents.com/welcome-to-night-vale-trans...
| makz wrote:
| World Government? what's that?
| wiml wrote:
| _Welcome to Night Vale_ is a fiction podcast in the form of a
| radio show from a remote small town in which all sorts of
| strange things happen -- aliens, vast conspiracies, mad
| cultists, supernatural beings, etc etc. Straddles the line
| between dryly funny and legitimately creepy. It 's worth a
| listen if you enjoy that kind of thing.
| mfkp wrote:
| The Illuminati, of course.
| waiseristy wrote:
| Oh boy are you in for a treat
|
| https://www.wikiwand.com/en/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theo.
| ..
| protomyth wrote:
| _Keep an eye on the helicopter colors. Are the unmarked
| helicopters circling the area black? Probably World
| Government._
|
| We had a drug task force mass arrest staged a few years back. I
| swear the DEA and other agencies did everything they could to
| kick up the paranoia. It was unreal how they checked all the
| 'conspiracy nut' boxes in one operation.
|
| They cut the internet and cell phones in the area. Real nice
| since we had an online class going. They drove around in black
| SUVs and, just so stupid, had black helicopters flying
| overhead. I guess they did arrest some people, but I question
| that too. I'm sure someone was super pleased with themselves.
| c3534l wrote:
| I've definitely gotten the impression that some agencies
| really get a kick out of feeling like badasses on super-
| secret missions and the whole thing is just tax-payer
| playtime for bored cops who want to feel special.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| The less useful they are the more they try and act
| important.
|
| ATF, DEA, DHS, etc are always making big scenes because
| "look, we're doing things, we justify our budget" whereas
| the FBI just does their job without fanfare.
| scrps wrote:
| You gotta put on a good show for the "tough on crime" crowd
| plus how do you expect them to justify funding if they aren't
| geared up like they are staging a raid on a terrorist
| stronghold to arrest some 20 year old for a couple of grams
| of meth (or someone growing okra1)? They are fighting the
| "War on Drugs" after all.2
|
| [1]: https://time.com/3479728/marijuana-okra-police/
|
| [2]: I say this with as much sarcasm as I can currently
| muster
| FinnLeSueur wrote:
| Oh man, Welcome to Night Vale is fantastic. I'm glad to see a
| reference!
| openasocket wrote:
| When I lived in Northern Virginia I saw a lot of helicopters
| flying over my apartment building, and not just the usual news
| and police helicopters. More than once I saw 4 uh-60s flying over
| in formation, and some uh-60s and uh-72s with a distinctive black
| and gold stripe color scheme. I did some research online and
| found that there were people in this region fascinated with
| identifying and cataloguing all of these aircraft, almost like
| bird watching. I found out they were likely stationed at the
| Pentagon. The black and gold ones are VIP transport helicopters,
| meant for transporting members of congress and cabinet members,
| particularly for evacuations in an emergency. I also saw marine
| one a couple times, though since it was alone I believe it didn't
| have POTUS in it at the time (when POTUS is actually in there
| they fly several identical helicopters in formation so you don't
| know which has the president). My apartment was roughly under the
| direct route between Andrews AB and DC, and pretty close to the
| pentagon, my guess is it was a convenient route for training and
| drilling.
| [deleted]
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