[HN Gopher] 'Rent-a-person who does nothing' in Tokyo receives e...
___________________________________________________________________
'Rent-a-person who does nothing' in Tokyo receives endless
requests, gratitude
Author : gmays
Score : 402 points
Date : 2021-01-14 16:15 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (mainichi.jp)
(TXT) w3m dump (mainichi.jp)
| atlgator wrote:
| So he's just selling his time... like an escort /s
| kiba wrote:
| People in Japan sometime rent out actors to act as parents,
| lovers, relatives, etc at weddings, marriage interview, and other
| occasions. This is nothing new.
| gxqoz wrote:
| Turns out the most famous article about this was based on a
| hoax: https://newrepublic.com/article/160595/new-yorker-japan-
| rent...
|
| "If Japan's family rental phenomenon is "well documented," as
| The New Yorker claims, it is not well documented in the article
| itself. Despite describing a "wave" of rental families
| beginning in the 1980s, and noting their prevalence in
| literature and movies, there is no concrete sense of how many
| people have actually used these services. Other recent articles
| about the phenomenon almost invariably cite Family Romance,
| which appears to have been thoroughly discredited. As Hiroko
| Tabuchi of The New York Times noted, "[W]hile it's unclear it
| provides 'family rental' services on any significant scale, it
| did run a wildly effective media campaign, feeding false
| anecdotes to outlets looking for a wacky story.""
| rossvor wrote:
| How can you "discredit" a fictional drama film? (Family
| Romance, LLC). Has "Inglourious Basterds" also been
| thoroughly discredited?
|
| EDIT: Nevermind, apparently there exists an actual, real
| company named "Family Romance", that's what parent poster's
| quote is referring to.
| [deleted]
| boxmonster wrote:
| I used to drive Uber as a retired programmer and found out I have
| a talent for putting people at ease. I've been told I'm a calm
| person. I've also been told I'm kind and a good listener. I quit
| Uber because of the pandemic. Maybe after I get vaccinated I'll
| give this a try, but I don't know how well it would work in
| Silicon Valley because everyone is in such a hurry.
| xyzelement wrote:
| I can't quite put my finger on how to define "this" but it seems
| like stories like "this" have been replacing stories of drive and
| grit in our cultural lore.
|
| It's en vogue now to talk about "doing nothing" or making it
| sound normal that you need to hire someone you don't know to
| accompany you to visit the hospital, etc.
|
| I am sure this is a part of the human experience but is it really
| a part we need to normalize, versus reconnecting with the culture
| of yesteryear of toughness, resilience, independence and
| productivity?
|
| The reason I say this is because I think the world is a tough
| competitive place whether we act like it or not. There's a
| premium to be someone (and a nation of someones) who can deal
| with harsh realities and crush through adversity. Every society
| that got to "the top" got there because of this, and I suspect
| every society that declined did so because of overindulgence in
| decadence and weakness. We don't want that.
| wilburTheDog wrote:
| I think there is another level to what this guy is doing that's
| hard to see if you just believe what he says about himself on
| its face. I feel like to be able to listen to and or be with
| someone while they do whatever and have no judgement,
| criticism, or suggestion requires you to have a very high level
| of Zen. I would probably want to correct or assist or do
| something in most situations. He's operating on the level of a
| therapist. But it's hard for people to admit sometimes that
| they need a therapist. There is a stigma and a feeling like
| there is something wrong with you that you have to get over
| just to ask for a therapist. This guy skips over all of that
| resistance by having, by all appearances, no ego at all. He's
| saying 'I don't have any skills so I can't possibly criticize
| you'. But having no skills doesn't stop most people from making
| suggestions or being critical. He is providing high value
| assistance to people and presenting himself in such a humble
| way that it's easy to ask for his help.
| xyzelement wrote:
| I actually agree with that, I do think therapy and "getting
| things out of your head" are incredibly valuable. I don't
| have a problem with this guy - basically he found a way to
| make money doing what capitalism has deemed a valuable
| service so he's OK in my book. He's working and building.
|
| My problem is more with the cultural ethos and the vibe of
| this story and what it and stories like it appear to
| celebrate or at least normalize.
|
| This headline should have been "enterprising Japanese man
| builds a service and earns a good living satisfying the needs
| of others that they value and pay for" :)
| bentcorner wrote:
| You get out what you put in - I see this story as someone
| making the best of a bad situation, finding a unique niche and
| innovating something that didn't exist before.
|
| (If the story is indeed true) "Doing nothing" is just click-
| bait - he's definitely not doing nothing, he's connecting with
| people who need it, and has built it into a business with a
| twitter following.
| hh3k0 wrote:
| > The reason I say this is because I think the world is a tough
| competitive place whether we act like it or not.
|
| It doesn't have to be, though.
|
| I guess the individuals featured in such stories are the change
| they want to see in the world.
| xyzelement wrote:
| Sorry, but LOL. You can't opt out of competition any more
| than you can opt out of gravity.
|
| If you aren't "strong" enough to do the hard work, someone
| else in your town will do it and reap the rewards while you
| become irrelevant. If your whole town opts out, some other
| part of the country will do it while your town drifts away
| into irrelevance and poverty.
|
| If the whole country opts out, some other young and hungry
| country will take advantage of the opportunities your country
| passes up, until that country makes your country irrelevant.
|
| Everything we have is because we or our ancestors (whether
| literal ancestors or the people that built the countries we
| live in) did the hard work. A few people can opt out and
| free-ride on others. But if the whole culture opts out, the
| whole culture will become irrelevant.
| larkeith wrote:
| > You can't opt out of competition any more than you can
| opt out of gravity.
|
| Perhaps not as an individual, but I wonder about as a
| society - I don't know how we would get to this point, but
| imagine the sheer potential we as a culture could unlock by
| moving to a more cooperative model; consider the billions
| upon billions of person-hours wasted on things like stock
| trading, internal politicking, and marketing/advertising:
| all the things that provide no value to the race, but
| "required" to facilitate interpersonal competition.
|
| Of course, none of that is against your primary point,
| which is that hard work is still, on the whole, required.
| It just irritates me to see competition equated to a law of
| nature; we're not animals, we can choose whether and how
| competition applies.
| xyzelement wrote:
| Sure, I agree with that. There is plenty of cooperation
| in the world, when two strong parties come together and
| say "this will work out better for us if we do it
| together."
|
| My main point and I think you agree, is that you can
| never get there from a position of weakness and laze. No
| one is going to throw in their lot cooperating with you
| if your ethos is to "do nothing" or if you aren't
| functioning as an adult (whether an adult individual or
| an adult nation/country.)
| klmadfejno wrote:
| Japan has a stronger culture of people being ok not chasing
| great wealth. You don't need to be at the top, Japan or
| otherwise. It won't make you happy.
|
| Being at the bottom might be nice to avoid though.
| ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
| Everybody knows the world is a horrible, heartless, unfair
| place. They do when they visit their dying relatives in the
| hospital, when they go through gut wrenching legal proceedings
| with a person they once loved, when their boss tells them
| they're worthless. We all crush through harsh realities on the
| daily, having someone by your side doesn't make you weak. There
| is nothing to "normalize", if anything the abnormal thing is
| that we strayed from it to a culture that pretends the
| individual is all powerful, a masturbatory illusion of absolute
| self-reliance.
|
| Grit will help you right up until you jump off a bridge. Very
| few people succeed through sheer tyranny of will, most do
| because they have a support network that helps them survive.
| xwdv wrote:
| I wonder if you can rent him to sit in Zoom meetings doing
| nothing.
| partiallypro wrote:
| This describes most companies, where ~30% does the work and ~70%
| rides the coat tails or steps in every once in a while.
| asimjalis wrote:
| Focusmate is basically the same idea.
|
| https://focusmate.com
| jeffbee wrote:
| I've been renting hundreds of people who do nothing for years.
| From Capgemini. Nothing Japanese about it!
| jmartrican wrote:
| Worked at a company that did the same for $20 MM.
| [deleted]
| agumonkey wrote:
| But they received no gratitude at all while sending endless
| requets.
| robofanatic wrote:
| and how is that relevant to this story?
| fastball wrote:
| It's a joke, and it's funny. Lighten up.
| KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
| Jokes like these are literally not allowed on HN.
| fastball wrote:
| I think I missed that part of the HN guidelines, could
| you point me in the right direction?
| jachee wrote:
| At the risk of getting too meta, the words "joke" "funny"
| and "humor" don't appear on the HN Guidelines[0] page at
| all. Nothing in there about staying 100% serious 100% of
| the time.
|
| [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| fwip wrote:
| I mean, the second sentence of the "In Comments" section:
|
| > Be kind. Don't be snarky.
|
| In this case it's snarking at the consulting company, but
| is that alright because they're not actually involved in
| the story or thread?
| jrh206 wrote:
| Jokes aren't necessarily snarky - I don't read any
| malicious undertone from this joke, which I think is
| necessary to be considered snarky
| 11thEarlOfMar wrote:
| It's so funny that you said 'literally'.
| fhools wrote:
| wait, are you making a joke there?
| heyoni wrote:
| Can you tell us more about how you've been using this service?
| mjamil wrote:
| GP is being humorous, and cracking a joke about consulting
| companies and their productivity.
| heyoni wrote:
| Oh had no idea who that company was lol. Was going to look
| it up.
| trailmonster wrote:
| but instead commented with out knowledge. you are the
| internet's problem.
| robofanatic wrote:
| most people would get downvoted for that. GP seems to be
| special :-)
| DavidAdams wrote:
| Substitute McKinsey, Bain, or Accenture for a US version of
| the joke.
| d00bianista wrote:
| This could be turned into a great, possibly awkward, movie.
| [deleted]
| lordnacho wrote:
| It couldn't be great if it wasn't awkward
| nnadams wrote:
| I was thinking the same thing. A 90 minute movie where he
| doesn't say a single word. It could be one day in his life just
| being there for his different clients.
| dghf wrote:
| They also serve who only stand and wait.
| endeavorchan wrote:
| Cool
| [deleted]
| 11thEarlOfMar wrote:
| The loneliness market.
| pontifier wrote:
| I've had a fantastic boost in productivity lately due to paying
| some unemployed homeless people I know to watch me programming.
|
| It's somewhere between rubber duck and pair programming. They
| might be learning a bit, and explaining things really keeps me on
| task.
| [deleted]
| hbag wrote:
| Well, shit, I'm in the wrong business.
| b0rsuk wrote:
| According to the late David Graeber, this has been going for a
| while now. He defines one category of "bullshit jobs" as
| flunkies. Typically people who are hired to make someone else
| look good. For example a CEO must have a secretary or an
| assistant or analyst so they hire one. They do perform a role of
| sorts, but their output is completely irrelevant.
|
| It's really not far from suits, especially white ones, white
| gloves, or high heels. Such apparel demonstrates that you don't
| work, in fact that you can't work. Ancient Romans liked to have
| feasts while laying on their sides - it's very inconvenient to
| reach for things and you must use servants. Another status symbol
| is a wristwatch with dials but no numbers. Female shirts are
| unbuttoned from the opposite side - so they're comfortable to
| unbutton for the servants.
| notahacker wrote:
| As this is HN, I assume some readers are already preparing
| pitchdecks to raise funding for the gig economy marketplace to
| match people who want nothing to people willing to do absolutely
| nothing for them.
| liquidify wrote:
| What he is doing is certainly not easy. I can understand why
| people would pay for it. I'd use it as a form of rubber duck
| programming, but with an actual person that you have to at least
| act like you are trying to make understand.
| breck wrote:
| Listener as a service.
| rchaud wrote:
| 'Conversational Commerce'
| hospadar wrote:
| Isn't this just describing a therapist? I don't mean that to
| belittle this (whether it be real or fake), I think therapy is
| great, and I often feel like therapy could (and does, I suppose)
| exist in many more formats than just sitting-on-couch-in-quiet-
| office (rent-a-friend, good psychics, good religious leaders,
| bartenders, etc, etc).
|
| Whether real or not, I think the fact that it _sounds_ plausible
| [at least enough to be a good satire] suggests that there's
| probably something to the idea that having a fairly neutral
| companion is pretty valuable.
| Igelau wrote:
| > having a fairly neutral companion is pretty valuable
|
| I think this is true. Not a "yes man", but an "is that so?
| man".
|
| Conversely, the friends I can argue with vehemently and yet
| have neither of us take it personally -- they are rare and dear
| to me.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| It's like a very passive therapist slash low-key friend who can
| go with you to different places.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| No, the jobs he was hired for don't sound like a therapist at
| all. At most he is only willing to offer feedback, but most of
| the jobs are literally just people wanting an extra person for
| a variety of reasons.
| rchaud wrote:
| No, therapists make you do homework. The job involves more than
| lending a sympathetic ear and pocketing the cash.
|
| Behavioural change doesn't happen by just talking. Maybe that's
| for session 1, but for session 2, you'll have to do work to
| understand your feelings, what triggers them and how to set up
| your life and daily schedule to manage them. To do this you
| will likely be asked to keep a mood diary, and review the
| results during the sessions.
|
| Lots of people quit therapy because it's expensive and their
| employer may only cover the cost of say 10 sessions. But a lot
| of people quit well before that because they go into it
| thinking that they'll "let it all out" and get instant results.
| chickenmonkey wrote:
| Ultimately, perhaps some of these people are really looking for a
| therapist.
| tartoran wrote:
| I think this whole thing comes from a place of generalized
| loneliness and lack of genuine human contact between people.
| Technology's other edge has enabled physical isolation quite a
| bit.
| [deleted]
| anotherman554 wrote:
| I saw a lecture on psychology 101-- I think it was the free
| online one from Stanford-- where the professor said the main
| benefit of talk therapy is just having someone who cares about
| your problems for 45 minutes.
|
| So he what he is doing _is_ therapy.
| hctaw wrote:
| In my experience this can be an extremely harmful approach to
| talk therapy (and talking about therapy).
|
| The main benefit is having someone trained to listen for
| specific symptoms based on what you talk about and to develop
| treatment strategies based on what you discuss and symptoms
| you experience.
|
| I wouldn't reduce it to "having someone who cares about your
| problems for 45 minutes." It's more like "talking about your
| problems for 45 minutes to someone who can recognize which
| ones are rational, which ones aren't, and can discuss with
| you how to mitigate the negative effects of your own
| irrational thoughts."
| closeparen wrote:
| Part of the "humans are social creatures" thing -
| communication is thought. Explaining yourself to another
| person organizes and makes connections within your ideas that
| rumination doesn't.
| quesera wrote:
| I have a good friend who is a Reiki practitioner.
|
| We don't have deep conversations about theory of function,
| but the peripheral mentions that creep into our conversations
| seem to point in this same direction.
| pantelisk wrote:
| I 've seen people react with a "oh so wacky japan" attitude
| when something like this pops up. But I agree with you, this is
| nothing more than a form of therapy.
|
| > Another reflected, "I had been slack about visiting the
| hospital, but I went because he came with me."
|
| I have seen multiple people be much more eager and diligent in
| taking a pet to the vet, than taking care of theirselves (due
| to fear, shame, and an if you ignore it long enough mentality)
| this hits hard.
| dkersten wrote:
| For me personally, I'm more likely to take a pet to the vet
| because I'd feel guilty about neglecting a pet, while I can
| neglect myself without feeling guilty (just like I do when I
| knowingly eat too much junk food or don't exercise enough or
| whatever -- I know its bad, but I can ignore it).
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| Well, in the US at least a vet is significantly less
| expensive.
| birdyrooster wrote:
| And in my experience pet insurance is more generous than
| human insurance
| vonmoltke wrote:
| Depends on what you need. I just paid three times more to
| get my dog a flu shot than it would have cost me to get for
| myself without insurance.
|
| I agree, though, that doctors for non-humans are generally
| cheaper than those for humans.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| The problem with therapists is that therapists tend to come of
| as a position of authority and that that, for many, makes them
| less effective.
|
| This man takes the position of a peer.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| An unassuming, low-key peer at that.
| kazinator wrote:
| While that meets the definition of "person that does nothing",
| but is not the cheapest alternative. That person has student
| loans to pay off.
| dstick wrote:
| Is it therapy though? It feels more like they're buying slim
| verticals you'd normally "get" in a romantic relationship.
| colinj2 wrote:
| A close personal friend is also a good stand-in for this type
| stuff.
| bjeds wrote:
| ... but without the stigma.
|
| But I think the guy himself has a point when he says he lowers
| the bar. Think how many different jobs (or "roles") there that
| can be ranked in a kind of hierarchy: not in the sense of a
| career ladder, but in services and expertise offered. Between
| the bottom of this hierarchy, and nothing, is a gap to fill.
|
| Take for example personal protection. Sure, if I need a high
| tier of that service, I could get myself a bodyguard, maybe one
| of those with ex-military experience and all the combat
| training etc. Between that and "nothing" is a random joe who
| tags along to the Tinder date, like this guy.
|
| Or sure I could meet a licensed therapist. Don't want to? Can
| meet a friend. Don't have one? This random dude to the rescue.
| pnathan wrote:
| Yes, this isn't just _therapy_. Although apparently he
| provides that in a highly limited way. I think "someone to
| tag along in uncertain & common situations" is a useful
| service.
|
| I also think that there's probably a _lot_ lost in
| translation, and would be very interested in a JP resident /
| speaker providing commentary and context.
| AS37 wrote:
| Seems similar to RentAFriend, founded 2009.
|
| https://rentafriend.com/
| gpmcadam wrote:
| OnlyFriends
| the_local_host wrote:
| > "I get upset when people simply tell me keep on trying. When
| someone is trying to do something, I think the best thing to do
| is to help lower the bar for them by staying at their side"
|
| This is brilliant.
| nonbirithm wrote:
| Nobody that I seek advice for in online communities seems to
| understand this. Too often I know I'm doing it wrong, and I get
| told back the equivalent of "well, because you're doing it
| wrong. What did you expect?"
|
| I keep thinking that just sharing a room with someone that
| ignores me and just does exactly what it is I'm trying to do
| would be ten times more helpful than being picked apart for all
| my flaws (which I understand exist, that's why I want
| accountability to fix them).
|
| The less time it takes for me to go from a game over screen to
| my next life, the more likely I'm not going to just quit the
| game in frustration. Preferably that time is zero seconds.
| Hnrobert42 wrote:
| I hear what you are saying.
| uhtred wrote:
| On a second read that sentence became even funnier.
| DoofusOfDeath wrote:
| My humor-detector is going wild, but I can't figure out the
| joke(s). I really hope I just need more coffee.
| uhtred wrote:
| I found it funnier off the back of reading the whole
| article and seeing his picture - he just came across as
| having a dry sense of humor. Being told to "keep on trying"
| is very frustrating, like, what do you think I've been
| doing all this time?! Also this: "Morimoto got a job with a
| publisher after finishing a graduate degree, but found it
| hard to fit in and left. His boss said sarcastically, "It
| doesn't matter if you're here or not." I get the impression
| he sees the comedy in being told that.
| bittercynic wrote:
| For me the two meanings are:
|
| *having someone by your side makes a task easier.
|
| *they get a relative boost because I'm so terrible.
|
| Anyone see additional meanings?
|
| (edited for formatting and to add question)
| [deleted]
| scotty79 wrote:
| If you think about it, it's a bit surprising how many people, you
| think, couldn't do his job.
| imaginenore wrote:
| Doing nothing is my hell. Waste of your life.
| dubcanada wrote:
| This and similar support jobs (mental health type jobs) are
| probably the hardest jobs in the world. Not only for the person
| doing it, but the requirements for such a thing are just
| astronomical and not really something you can learn. You can
| learn aspects of it, but to excel it requires a certain type of
| person.
| tartoran wrote:
| > You can learn aspects of it, but to excel it requires a
| certain type of person.
|
| This is a big problem in employment. To have successful
| workers the right person needs to get to the right job.
| Bureaucracy and politics pay are huge deterrents for this
| type of work. I've seen people who would love to be teachers
| and they'd be (somehow) okay with a low pay but not with the
| amount of paperwork and politics they had to deal with.
| leetcrew wrote:
| apparently one of the things people hire this guy for is just
| to wave goodbye when they move away. I agree not just anyone
| could do that in an appropriately sensitive way, but to say
| the requirements are astronomical seems like an
| overstatement.
| squidlogic wrote:
| This reminds me of professional mourning [1]. Throughout
| history there have been professionals that help families
| grieve in different ways. Hiring someone to wave goodbye
| when you move strikes me as a similar function. Both are
| offering emotional services during a time of transition,
| albeit in very different ways.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_mourning
| resonantjacket5 wrote:
| I've heard it's more like an acting role.
|
| You can't literally do nothing.
| hdesh wrote:
| Obligatory seinfeld bit on this one -
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhPt8_yNqlA
| agumonkey wrote:
| Challenge accepted.
| scaladev wrote:
| You have already failed by posting this comment.
| agumonkey wrote:
| I expected this, but the game I didn't sign the contract
| yet.
| [deleted]
| 1MachineElf wrote:
| Good to know there are employment prospects for me if I ever
| decide to move to Japan.
| aanet wrote:
| This man is my hero.
|
| He doesn't boast his credentials or nor indeed his work, such as
| it is. He is totally Zen about it.
|
| Aspirational!
| kazinator wrote:
| sugoine. Cun Zai surudakede, oJin womoraeru.
|
| Suan Su woXi tsute, Er Suan Hua Tan Su woTu ite, Gei Liao woJia
| geru.
| kleer001 wrote:
| Ji Shi womouYi Du Du mu
| lowracle wrote:
| People who aren't self obsessed are becoming rare. It's an
| interesting development. I guess it must be hard to find a friend
| who listens and give feedback instead of talking about
| themselves.
| Karuma wrote:
| A friendly reminder that Japan's rent-a-family industry was
| completely fake: https://newrepublic.com/article/160595/new-
| yorker-japan-rent...
|
| Everyone loves stories about how weird Japan is (especially the
| Japanese), so these stories should be taken with a grain of salt.
| Tade0 wrote:
| I started questioning the western narrative about Japan when I
| learned that the fertility and suicide rates are actually
| _worse_ in my country.
|
| Turns out a lot of "exotic" problems in this country are all
| too familiar.
| TravelPiglet wrote:
| As long as people don't ruin my view of Germany being the EU
| version of Japan kinky preferences and all
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Leaving the sex out of it, a common statement is that
| England is the Japan or Europe.
|
| There are actually remarkable similarities in culture which
| are possibly influenced due to both being iland states.
|
| https://bccjacumen.com/uk%E2%80%93japan-closer-than-you-
| thin...
|
| These do not dive all that much into sexual media however.
| The Anglo-Saxon is infamously sexually traditional and
| repressed, and the Englishman second only to the
| Australiaman. Australia recently actually banned the import
| of Japanese pornography.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDmbo5dxgQg
|
| He's wrong, however -- _Eromanga Sensei_ is far from the
| worst. I would love for him to take a stab at _Night Shift
| Nurses_ or _Aki-Sora_ -- the latter so amazing that even
| Tokyo itself made laws to contain it 's carnal sins against
| mankind.
| Tade0 wrote:
| To me Japan is more like asian Switzerland.
|
| The tidyness, amazingly punctual trains, mountains and
| general conservatism make both those countries stand out.
| asutekku wrote:
| Man, you have not been major city areas if you think
| japan is tidy. Sure, compared to the US it maybe is, but
| a lot of european countries are better. But travel a bit
| further from the city centres in japan and you'll start
| seeing all those illegal trash sites at quiet mountain
| roads and yards full of old trash.
| jbay808 wrote:
| In terms of framing as a Western narrative... This is an
| article in the _Mainichi_ , a major Japanese newspaper.
| Original Japanese version here:
| https://mainichi.jp/articles/20210111/k00/00m/040/021000c
| jogu wrote:
| > Japan's rent-a-family industry was completely fake
|
| That's really not what that article is claiming. It's claiming
| that a particular individual has lied about the industry and
| made it seem stranger than it actually is and the western media
| has sensationalized that even further.
|
| There absolutely are rental services for boyfriends,
| girlfriends, mothers, fathers, etc. in Japan, they're just not
| as bizarre as some of these articles would lead you to believe.
| exclusiv wrote:
| Separately, I've heard personal reports and seen a
| documentary about young Japanese men in general.
|
| It was said that their mothers do everything for them and for
| a much longer time than other countries. Is this true?
| shagie wrote:
| The word you are looking at is "amae" ... along with a
| large amount of material about it (and how it is
| interpreted and how it is misinterpreted).
|
| The classic book on the subject is "The Anatomy of
| Dependence"
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Dependence
|
| The gist of this is that the parent-child relationship is
| the ideal one and that extends into the relationships in a
| collectivist society including that of a manager to an
| employee.
|
| And so the doting mother to her child... extends a bit
| longer. The doting mother part isn't new - but rather that
| that relationship is seen as the ideal one... gets into
| cultural comparisons.
|
| ... but that's the word that can set you on the search for
| understanding of that phenomena.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| _Girlfriend experience_ -escorts are also not that uncommon
| outside of Japan.
|
| Bars where one buys a good conversation along with the meal,
| cafes where the waiters roleplay as one's doting sibling,
| renting a parent, used underwear from vending machines, maid
| cafes, maid cafes where the maids are all cross-dressing
| males, cafes where the attractive male waiters make out with
| each other for the viewing pleasure of the customer base,
| cafes where the attractive female waiters wear no underwear,
| short skirts, and the floors are mirrored -- well, that's the
| _joie de vivre_ that has a big "only in Japan" sticker on it.
|
| The second place with distance is the U.S.A. that at least
| has cafes where the attractive female waiters wear skimpy
| outfits, cheerleaders, and bikini car wash -- but the rest of
| the world that has nothing that comes close to this well-
| inspired madness.
| glandium wrote:
| Note: for many of the "weird" things you list, there's
| _one_ place doing it, not several, like the use of plural
| may suggest (AFAIK).
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Such as which example?
|
| I have knowledge of the existence of multiple in almost
| all of what I listed.
| glandium wrote:
| Used underwear vending machine, last I heard, there's
| only one. Yaoi cafe, AFAIK, there's only one. And I would
| be surprised if there's more than one cafe with the glass
| floor and no underwear.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Well, you seem to be wrong about all three:
|
| https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-
| ikebukuro...
|
| This article reviews three different _boy 's love_ cafes,
| in close proximity to one another.
|
| I'm not sure how derive the conclusion that there is only
| one used underwear vending machine; a simple image search
| reveals many different models:
|
| https://www.techinasia.com/japan-used-panty-vending-
| machines...
|
| This article concludes that the most extreme stories
| about one at every corner are an exaggeration, but one
| can definitely find them.
|
| As for the cafes without underwear: there is definitely
| more than one, though they've been on a decline.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa
| glandium wrote:
| > https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-
| ikebukuro...
|
| Of the 3, only the first one is overtly Yaoi. I don't
| know the second one, but it doesn't seem like one, and
| the Butler cafe is definitely not Yaoi.
|
| > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa
|
| After the boom in the 80s (30+ years ago), are there
| really any left, with the glass floor and everything?
| michaelpb wrote:
| That's not true. Cafes that cater to lonely straight men or
| misogynistic businessmen exist worldwide.
|
| Just one example: All the different "cafe con piernas"
| cafes in Chile, which are very similar to Japanese maid
| cafes.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| How is that similar to maid cafes, let alone cafes where
| the waiters act as if they be one's doting sibling?
|
| You seem to have reduced my rather wild and spectacular
| examples to something so mundane as: " _Cafes that cater
| to lonely straight men or misogynistic businessmen exist_
| ", especially when most of my examples have nothing to do
| with "straight men" or "misogynistic businessmen".
| ravenstine wrote:
| Yeah if you just read all these articles about Japan, you'd
| think that all young men beat off to hentai all day at their
| parent's home, and that everyone is visiting "love hotels", or
| buys used panties from vending machines. The media loves to
| spin up an image of Japan to naive westerners by exaggerating
| its quirks.
|
| It reminds me of HN. If you read HN too much, you might think
| that you can only write applications in Rust and Go using K8s,
| no JavaScript but Typescript only, but in reality the vast
| majority of apps being written are using boring technologies to
| implement CRUD around a relational database.
| pratik661 wrote:
| I mentioned this phenomenon in a comment on an HN article
| about caste in India:
|
| " Something I've also noticed in Western media is that when
| covering issues about other cultures (ie India, Middle East,
| etc), the bar for evidence is pitifully low, especially if
| the story matches existing confirmation bias."
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24952892
| dalbasal wrote:
| We need a new name for this kind of fallacy/bias. It's not
| new, but more potent and prevalent than ever. Only saucy
| stories get told, so we think it's _all_ sauce.
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| Marinara bias?
| cartoonfoxes wrote:
| I like this. All red sauces are not marinara.
| dalbasal wrote:
| works for me
| burnthrow wrote:
| Reading HN comments yesterday I learned that if I can't
| quickly devise an algorithm to lay out stars evenly on a
| flag, I'm worse than programmers _in training_.
| f430 wrote:
| I also think Kpop's influence is also exaggerated but I won't
| argue against it's popularity amongst the young female/some
| male crowd.
|
| It's like when a Kpop/Kdrama fan approaches me expecting me
| to know all of the pop culture when in my experience most
| Koreans simply consider BTS to be like Justin Bieber.
|
| Imagine if people from Japan starts asking you if you watch
| Justin Bieber sing and then getting offended when you speak
| the truth. This is exactly what people in Korea and Japan are
| going through but you will almost never see them express it
| but its getting extreme in some situations like below:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/gxa6qr/this_girl_mak.
| ..
|
| Here you can see her physically harassing Korean men by
| hugging them or trying to kiss them. It's getting to the
| point where Western women are fetishizing Korean men similar
| to how Asian women are often fetishized by foreigners (not
| through popular culture but mainly through pornography).
| dang wrote:
| This subthread was originally a reply to
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25779139.
| joerter12 wrote:
| Thanks, I was just about to comment on how the social trends
| coming out of Japan are quite disturbing. I hope it's as
| exaggerated as you say.
| rchaud wrote:
| But who's 'the media' here? Occasionally you'll see a piece
| in a major publication about Japanese consumer trends or
| strange products that become big hits. More recently I've
| seen articles about the hikikomori (sp?) "lost generation"
| people that graduated just as the bubble burst 30 years ago.
| But the rest of the coverage is 'normal'; political, business
| and sports news.
|
| The only place I ever see "weird Japan" content regularly is
| Reddit and western vloggers living in Japan posting the most
| sensationalist stuff possible.
| dialamac wrote:
| Case in point was already mentioned. The New Yorker is the
| outlet that ran with the bullshit rent a family story.
| joe11 wrote:
| So lying Jewish scum, I'm not surprised.
| glandium wrote:
| It's not only the New Yorker. It was on many Youtube
| channels, many news articles, etc.
|
| It even made the news in Japan.
| smorephism wrote:
| > you might think that you can only write applications in
| Rust and Go using K8s, no JavaScript but Typescript only
|
| Pff. Everyone knows Haskell, Idris and Elixir are acceptable,
| too.
| alexanderdmitri wrote:
| once you've started on Idris you've crossed the line over
| from kinky to deviancy
|
| source: there are several people in my weekly support group
| for exactly this reason, it gets out of control
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| I would trust any type system that doesn't require me to
| prove that my sorting algorithm maintains the length of
| the vector it sorts.
| closeparen wrote:
| It would be extraordinary if young couples were having sex
| within earshot of their parents, or not at all. "Love hotels"
| seem like a pretty mundane adaptation to dating while living
| with family.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| > _Yeah if you just read all these articles about Japan, you
| 'd think that all young men beat off to hentai all day at
| their parent's home, and that everyone is visiting "love
| hotels", or buys used panties from vending machines._
|
| Firstly, love hotels are a sign of not being lonely. They do
| not offer a prostitute; those batteries are not included
|
| Secondly, I do not gain the impression from that that all do
| it, merely that they note that the very existence thereof is
| exceptional. In particular, of the used underwear vending
| machines, when the story broke many would not believe it and
| thought it was a hoax, but it actually exists.
|
| No one thinks that every U.S.A.-man bought an assault rifle
| at a gas station or got one as a gift for opening up a bank
| account, but that the practice even exists, that the number
| of occurrence isn't zero -- that is something remarkable in
| and of itself.
|
| > _The media loves to spin up an image of Japan to naive_
| westerners _by exaggerating its quirks._
|
| What I must ask is why the term "western" invariably always
| drops whenever Japan is discussed.
|
| Experience taught me that more often than not "the west" in
| that context simply means "The U.S.A.".
|
| There is no "west" relevant to what you claim. All that
| matters is "Japan" _vs._ "everything else" or at least anyone
| not particularly experienced with Japan which applies as
| easily to, say, India, Russia, Uganda, or Indonesia.
|
| > _It reminds me of HN. If you read HN too much, you might
| think that you can only write applications in Rust and Go
| using K8s, no JavaScript but Typescript only, but in reality
| the vast majority of apps being written are using boring
| technologies to implement CRUD around a relational database._
|
| I find that every time an article about a, shall we call it
| "exciting language" is posted most of the comments, though
| impressed with the theoretical innovations thereof, doubt
| it's real world applicability.
| glandium wrote:
| > Firstly, love hotels are a sign of not being lonely. They
| do not offer a prostitute; those batteries are not included
|
| Look up "delivery health". The batteries may not be
| included at the love hotel itself (although I've heard of
| places that do come with a menu), but it's also a common
| use of love hotels.
| stickfigure wrote:
| > Firstly, love hotels are a sign of not being lonely.
|
| My observation from travel is that love hotels are a sign
| of multigenerational housing. Young adults need somewhere
| to go without their parents watching.
| bserge wrote:
| In my home country you can rent actual apartments in
| completely normal buildings by the hour or by the night.
| Everyone knows for what purpose.
|
| They're actually cheaper and nicer than hotels, so if
| you're not icky, it's a cheap way to stay in the country
| -\\_(tsu)_/-
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| Fascinating, which country is that? Do you just walk in
| and say that you'd like to rent a room for 2 hours?
| (These questions make it sound like I want to use this
| service, but I'm just interested to hear about this
| concept, lol)
| [deleted]
| 3np wrote:
| BBC loves to fetishize Weird Japan. I know where you come
| from, but from what I've seen this one checks out as
| western.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| How many languages do you speak to confirm this idea?
|
| Do you speak Pashto enough to know that Afghanistan does
| not take the crown in this, for instance? Do you speak
| Danish enough to know that Denmark also participates?
| some_random wrote:
| First you say "western" usually means the US, someone
| disagrees and now you demand they speak Pashto and
| Danish? Come on.
| [deleted]
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| How would that logic be faulty?
|
| For him to confirm his claim that it is a specifically
| "western" thing to treat Japan so in news sources, he has
| to speak a variety of both "western" and "non western"
| languages to truly ascertain that trend.
|
| He must both confirm that it happens in "western" news
| sources of many different countries, as well as that it
| doesn't happen in "non western" news sources.
|
| One would have to speak a considerable number of
| languages to claim sufficient expertise in world news
| reporting to make this claim.
| skrebbel wrote:
| You're being needlessly confrontational.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Perhaps, but you suggested there was fault to be found
| with my argument.
|
| I'm not sure as to how I'm supposed to challenge the
| challenge to my challenge without being "confrontational"
| as you call it and point out the faults with the
| argument.
| some_random wrote:
| Interesting, how many books have you read on the topic of
| confrontation vs argumentation? I think you need at least
| two to have a sufficient background to discuss the
| concept.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| No, one doesn't, actually.
|
| Only if one makes a claim about what is generally written
| in such books.
| Shared404 wrote:
| > I'm not sure as to how I'm supposed to challenge the
| challenge to my challenge without being "confrontational"
| as you call it and point out the faults with the
| argument.
|
| This is a hard problem, and a difficult lesson to learn.
| I know it took me a while, and I'm still bad at it.
|
| I find it helps to make your points, while trying to
| maintain a pleasant tone (Easier said than done, and I'm
| not a good person to teach this). I also find it helps to
| add questions asking for either other peoples opinions or
| clarifications on their position, as that helps show that
| you're not just talking, but also listening.
|
| Edit: Also, the largest part for me at least is to
| remember that an attack on your argument is not a
| personal attack against you. I've had issues with doing
| this my whole life, and am still working on it.
| skrebbel wrote:
| > _Perhaps, but you suggested_
|
| I did not.
| cambalache wrote:
| You are a "quirky" fella to say the least. I think you
| would feel at home in "Japan"
| dumb1224 wrote:
| I noticed this effect on me after years of living in Europe.
| The perception of Japanese culture / society I had from before
| I moved to Europe was quite different (these phenomena are to
| some extent well-known but not an obsession). Now I fear my
| understanding of all things Japanese is a little bit off (or at
| least diverged) from my peers in my country.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| Your perception of Japan changed after you moved to Europe
| [from another country]? Fascinating, can you expand on that?
| sandworm101 wrote:
| >> about how weird Japan is (especially the Japanese)
|
| Like countries where you can rent young girls to help launch
| your latest computer game? There are people in LA that can
| provide babies for TV/film appearances, preferably twins, with
| only a few hours notice. That's how the Olsen twins got
| started. The entire entertainment industry, from strip clubs to
| hollywood, is premised on renting people to pretend to be
| something they aren't, to provide personal appearances in
| places they would otherwise not. It only become weird when you
| describe it in non-industry terms.
| exclusiv wrote:
| No the article is odd/fascinating because most people's
| "rent-a-person" would be a friend or family member. And there
| would be no exchange of money.
|
| It's kind of sad people have to hire people to do friendly
| things, but this is a pandemic. And you would "rent-a-person"
| to move probably in most places (unless you had great friends
| haha).
|
| Also this makes sense "I'm not a friend or an acquaintance.
| I'm free of the bothersome things that accompany
| relationships, but can ease people's sense of loneliness"
|
| So you want a throwaway friend. Or a casual therapist that
| does things with you. Rent them. Ok I guess not as weird as
| first glance. We have something similar in the US - life
| coaches which seemingly everyone on LinkedIn is nowadays.
| miles wrote:
| > Japan's rent-a-family industry was completely fake
|
| It is very real:
|
| huamiriromansuShe [(Jia Zu rentaru)] Jia Zu Dai Xing Dai Li
| narahuamirirentaruZhuan Men https://family-
| romance.com/family.html
|
| [Ta Ren ninarikiru] Dai Xing sabisugaRen Qi Bo su[Chi
| tsutehoshii] toiuYi Lai mo
| https://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/19410877/
| glandium wrote:
| Note that Family Romance _is_ the company GP 's article is
| about. It may not be entirely fake, but the stories that made
| the news were. (and both your links are about that company)
| miles wrote:
| Yes, it is the company cited in the article. It is very
| real and provides very real services:
|
| How to Rent Friends in Japan
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jag6iyrSjsI
|
| Rental families to heal lonely souls in Japan
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OURBpPLewoU
|
| We Rented A Girlfriend In Japan
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLBNO33bMX0
|
| Behind Japan's Fake-Family Industry
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEhYMirs7fk
| glandium wrote:
| You'll have to admit it's hard to take any of these
| seriously when they are all about the same company that
| has been reported to embellish things to put it mildly.
| Well, except for Max D. Capo's, he used a different
| service.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| The difference is that this article alleges the existence of a
| single individual, rather than a trend.
|
| The other article spoke in vague words of quantity, which is
| quite common in news articles, that a certain quantity is
| suggested, but actual numbers are never shown.
|
| They are then not technically wrong but know full well most
| readers would infer a more spectacular claim than what they
| know the truth is.
|
| I'd argue that when numbers actually be spectacular, news
| articles invariably cite them, and when they not be, cover them
| up in vague words -- in this case however the number is 1, as
| it's about a single man only.
| CobrastanJorji wrote:
| Yes, but the article's critique is a good one. "Look at this
| weird thing that they do in Japan" is practically a genre of
| online story. Japan gets a special media callout, to quote
| the article, as a "menagerie of the weird, the alien, the
| freakish."
|
| When you see these articles about folks in the U.S., it's
| framed at "this guy is weird." When you see these articles
| about folks in Japan, it's frequently framed as "Japan is
| weird, and anti-social, and they don't have enough sex, and
| if we're not careful this could be us one day!"
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Yes, it does seem to be about stereotypes, not so much
| quirks per se.
|
| The Japanese stereotype is that they are lonely, and it is
| true that in Japan various things that cater to that, such
| as Host Clubs, are more common place.
|
| There was also an article about how the Netherlands
| supposedly pays for prostitutes for the disabled, diving
| into the stereotype how the Netherlands tends to sit at the
| vanguard of encouraging sexual nontraditionality -- the
| reality was less interesting and could be summed up as: A)
| disabled persons obtain financial support from the state;
| B) prostitution is legal.
|
| I also read articles about the Norwegian military having
| unisex showers and dorms, which also ties into
| stereotypical expectations, notwithstanding their existence
| in other places, I'm sure.
| not2b wrote:
| Has anyone found this guy's Twitter handle? That would be one
| way to check the story. Probably easier for a Japanese speaker
| to locate.
| scarmig wrote:
| Twitter handle:
|
| https://twitter.com/morimotoshoji
|
| Obviously the existence of the Twitter handle is just the
| first step in some kind of real verification. But it does
| confirm that, if it's a con, it's a long lived, dedicated
| one.
| lhorie wrote:
| The pinned tweet explains the service. Auto-translation is
| a bit broken, but should translate roughly to this:
|
| "I'm starting a service called 'rental person who does
| nothing'. [For example] for stores where entering alone is
| difficult[0], for matching the number of players in a game,
| to hold a hanami[1] spot. Please only use it for cases
| where one person is needed. I charge 10,000 yen, plus
| transportation fare from Kokubunji station, and food and
| drink (if applicable). I won't do anything other than very
| simple responses."
|
| So it's not strictly a listening service per se.
|
| [0] in Japan, there are food stores that are geared towards
| couples
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanami (the context here
| is holding a picnic spot)
| perennate wrote:
| The translated tweet matches the impression I got from
| the article. The article didn't make me think that it is
| specifically a "listening service".
|
| > "People rent him for various reasons. At times he will
| participate in a gaming session to make up numbers, turn
| up to send off people who are moving away, accompany
| those filing for divorce, or listen to health care
| workers who have become mentally unwell due to their
| exhausting work."
| lhorie wrote:
| > The article didn't make me think that it is
| specifically a "listening service"
|
| Yeah, I agree, but it seems like people are drawing
| parallels to emotional support things like that rent-a-
| family thing. While they are both extremely unusual gigs,
| it seems like this guy's interactions would at best be
| just nodding along, rather than reciprocating (even if in
| a fake way).
| gowld wrote:
| I wish there was a way to thank and promote fact-
| checkers/remindes like you to a level on par with the liars. We
| need better reputation network management tools.
| moralestapia wrote:
| Yeah, I just spent a fair amount of time trying to find this
| guy's twitter account and got nothing ...
|
| If anyone finds it, please share.
| 1-6 wrote:
| I think it only makes Japan a hotbed for interesting and new
| ideas. Don't start it up in Silicon Valley when you can get
| free press by doing it in Japan instead!
| manbash wrote:
| It doesn't mean that it's nonexistent. The news story is about
| one company that provided fake sources for a past article.
|
| Rent-a-friend/family in Japan seems like a real thing.
| ssivark wrote:
| Without assuming too much about the veracity of this story, it
| still addresses a fundamental human need.
|
| Humans, more than any other animals live in an imagined reality.
| Once food & shelter are taken care of, one's dependence on nature
| (physical reality) has been disintermediated. This, our direct
| experience is primarily imagined abstract reality
| (friends/family, employment, society, the act of
| purchasing/consuming, etc).
|
| Especially if one gets socially isolated in this world, it's very
| easy to decouple one's notion of reality from others in subtle
| ways. To be seen, have one's perspective acknowledged and to be
| sincerely "touched" by another person (in a deeper metaphorical
| sense) is therefore one of the strongest human needs.
|
| On the path to so thoroughly servicing humankind's physical
| needs, we've created a quandary that's increasingly endemic with
| waves of economic development.
| technofiend wrote:
| Once again Mike Judge accurately predicts the future: _" Michael?
| I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing and it was everything
| that I thought it could be."_ - Peter Gibbons, Office Space
| (1999).
| PrefixKitten wrote:
| Now if only I could make money doing two chicks at the same
| time..
| kridsdale1 wrote:
| I think it costs about a million dollars to get two chicks at
| the same time
| cferr wrote:
| I imagine if you had a million bucks you could set something
| like that up.
| golemiprague wrote:
| My psychologist did the same, he just charged more.
| scott_s wrote:
| This reminds me of one of the most insightful quotes about
| loneliness and grief I read in one of the most insightful essays
| on loss and grief:
|
| _I was reminded of our friend Liz's insight after she lost her
| husband to melanoma. She told me she had plenty of people to do
| things with, but nobody to do nothing with._
|
| From "The Day I Started Lying to Ruth" by Peter B. Bach,
| https://nymag.com/news/features/cancer-peter-bach-2014-5/
| medium_burrito wrote:
| Isn't this part of the plot in Shockwave Rider?
| mariodiana wrote:
| So, he's basically renting himself out as a less affectionate,
| zero maintenance support dog. Brilliant!
| m3kw9 wrote:
| If a dog can talk
| zappo2938 wrote:
| Sometimes we say the most when we say the least
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| The title reminds me of the Japanese strip _Rent-a-Girlfriend_ ,
| and how much it, and several similar ideas coming from Japan seem
| to express how lonely many of it's citizens might be feeling.
|
| Japanese commerce seems to have found a rather big market into
| treating loneliness. From the existence of Host Clubs, bars where
| the menu is not only food, but a good conversation with one's
| designated "host" as well, to cafes where the waiter plays a role
| of one's doting younger sister. Of course, it is probably also
| indicated by the infamously declining birth rate.
|
| _Rent-a-Girlfriend_ is a bizarre thing to read, if one not
| understand it 's target audience. It's a new dimension to _The 40
| Year Old Virgin_ , with the exception that the protagonist is
| supposed to be relatable to the audience -- he's unbelievably
| socially awkward and not in a way that derives humor from it, but
| is meant to invoke a sense of relatability and it essentially
| seems to exist as a way to vicariously cope with loneliness, as
| is surprisingly common in Japanese fiction.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| > he's unbelievably socially awkward and not in a way that
| derives humor from it, but is meant to invoke a sense of
| relatability
|
| Media does usually exaggerate the traits they're attempting to
| highlight, whether it's bravery or social anxiety. Most people,
| even if they are popular and charismatic, still feel awkward
| and anxious sometimes. As much as we talk about how different
| people are, in some ways we're all the same.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Yes, but it's still remarkable how common in Japanese fiction
| the socially awkward, uncomfortable protagonist, meant to be
| relatable to the audience is.
|
| The protagonist of _The 40 Year old Virgin_ is unique for it,
| and the series is not meant for 40 year old virgins.
|
| There is a surprisingly high amount of fiction from Japan
| that follows a formula similar to this:
|
| - The protagonist is socially awkward and nervous, but
| otherwise has no actual opinions or character traits
|
| - The protagonist starts the story rather lonely
|
| - The protagonist fairly quickly finds friends, lovers,
| family, who are very devoted to him
|
| - Bonus points for the protagonist being transported to a
| parallel universe to escape the dreads of social pressure of
| Japanese office worker life completely -- this specific plot
| device is oddly common.
|
| It feels as if one play a first person corridor shooter with
| a silent protagonist, but it's a book or television series:
| the protagonist is dragged along with the plot but somehow
| does not influence it and barely speaks or has opinions: the
| point is for the reader to mentally replace the protagonist
| with himself, and experience the story from his own
| perspective, so he can feel less lonely, just as such video
| games have a big element of making the player feel like an
| action hero, but the power phantasy sold here is simply "no
| longer being lonely".
|
| It's really an oddly big market for such a seemingly quite
| specific thing. _Rent-a-Girlfriend_ consistently ranks within
| the top 25 of strip volume sales in Japan, and it 's plot is
| really little more than "Lonely, socially awkward young adult
| is now less lonely.".
| bserge wrote:
| I assume that's the source for the TV series? I couldn't
| get past the 6th episode... it's just bad. And I watch a
| lot of trash haha
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| Yes, the strip was popular enough to receive t.v. series
| adaptation.
|
| I quit the strip in what must be around the same events
| of the story as the sixth episode -- I could not bare
| with how awkward the protagonist was, and how everyone
| either really liked him or outright fell in love with him
| despite being a nervous train wreck who constantly
| embarrasses himself.
|
| I'm not sure it's "bad"; it's as said quite popular and
| it's probably very good at what it attempts to do and
| what I consider flaws are probably features.
| zanny wrote:
| I eat this stuff up as a constantly lonely person, not in the
| "I wish I had a boyfriend" sense, in the "theres nobody to talk
| to, ever" sense. Like you get up, you work, you consume
| entertainment, maybe you go on HN or Reddit or Twitter or
| whatever and you throw words out that other people filter
| through like junk food, maybe you even go so far to join a fan
| community for something for a week or two and talk about it a
| bit and then... move on, because none of this is building a
| meaningful relationship with another human being at all. Its
| just consumptive, but even trying to be creative nobody has the
| time or interest to see whatever "ideas you have". Everyone is
| stuck in their own silos of consumption at this point and it
| leaves a lot of us just stuck on an isolated island by
| themselves.
|
| It doesn't hurt that from this position almost anyone you would
| find to interact with is in some way predatory. Like anyone who
| didn't fail at socializing has their closed off peer group they
| spend their time with by now. The doors closed and all that is
| left is this perpetual limbo of fluctuating between distracting
| from the sadness and being overwhelmed by it. In the same way
| corporate social media, entertainment, and trying to bond with
| others over that or the total inability to form creative bonds
| with others to actually make stuff are all vacuous and
| unfulfilling. In the same vein paying someone to keep you
| company ultimately cannot fill that missing piece in a person
| that wants others to just _want them to be there for
| themselves_. You can 't commodify that.
|
| So uh, I can _highly_ relate to what the Japanese are going
| through with how even more regimented and structured their
| society is pressed upon them as being. Its stifling enough in
| the US culture of hyper-consumerism. It seems like a stifling
| nightmare over there. Welcome to the NHK is a great anime on
| this subject if anyone is interested in getting into a, to be
| fair romanticized, version of these kinds of experiences. It
| touches well on the psychological hole you get yourself in
| though.
|
| Its kind of absurdist to think about, how capitalism is trying
| to respond to the endemic loneliness that if you really get
| into it can kind of be attributed to the way modern life is
| commodified and made competitive and consumptive. People are
| lonely because nobody has the time, patience, or desire left to
| be communal. At least not comprehensively for those of us on
| the social fringes. But there is no community because it isn't
| economically efficient to capital for one to exist. It gets
| eaten away to be replaced with more consumption for more profit
| and its leaving growing segments of society hollow husks. So
| you end up with rent a girlfriends and companionship bars
| instead of actual friends.
| Blikkentrekker wrote:
| > _I eat this stuff up as a constantly lonely person, not in
| the "I wish I had a boyfriend" sense, in the "theres nobody
| to talk to, ever" sense._
|
| Yes, a great deal of it is indeed nonromantic.
|
| _Welcome to the N.H.K._ is what I would consider a different
| beast from _Rent-a-Girlfriend_ what I 've seen about it,
| though I haven't read it, and indeed more so describes your
| version of escapism from excessive capitalism and social and
| financial duties, whereas _R.a.G._ seems to mostly be
| escapism from loneliness by lack of social aptitude.
| hitekker wrote:
| > Morimoto receives words of gratitude from customers who state
| that "the act of doing nothing serves as support." However, he
| remains nonchalant about the praise, saying, "I'm not doing it
| for that purpose, so my only response is, 'Oh, really?'" He also
| doesn't want his work to be seen as an act of charity. > "I'm not
| a friend or an acquaintance. I'm free of the bothersome things
| that accompany relationships, but can ease people's sense of
| loneliness. Maybe it's something like that for me," Morimoto told
| the Mainichi Shimbun.
|
| People can derive support from Morimoto, but he doesn't _intend_
| to provide them that support. That lack of intention makes his
| service simple and allows people to get what they want from him.
|
| How genuine.
| quesera wrote:
| This reminds me of a Haruki Murakami story.
|
| Not any _specific_ Haruki Murakami story, but basically all
| Haruki Murakami stories ever.
|
| I'm not sophisticated enough to know how much of this imagery
| is manufactured for export, but my gaijin self does enjoy it.
| [deleted]
| andygcook wrote:
| Listening intently without injecting criticism, condemnation, or
| your own complaints/opinions is extremely difficult. In fact,
| that skill is one of the major tenants of the timeless classic,
| How to Win Friends and Influence People. This quote is straight
| from the book:
|
| "Any fool can criticize, complain, and condemn--and most fools
| do. But it takes character and self-control to be understanding
| and forgiving."
|
| With isolation becoming a major issue during the pandemic, I'm
| not surprised people want to hire someone with these skills to
| just listen to their ideas and stories.
| bitbuilder wrote:
| >With isolation becoming a major issue during the pandemic, I'm
| not surprised people want to hire someone with these skills to
| just listen to their ideas and stories.
|
| I think you make a great point, but at the same time it feels
| like you're also describing conventional talk therapy. And if
| you have good insurance, it's free. If you don't, it still
| doesn't break the bank.
|
| I frequently joke with my friends that I'm only paying for a
| therapist to have someone to vent to. I pay them, and they
| listen my bullshit without judging me. (There's more to it than
| that of course, but it's a lighthearted way to suggest therapy
| to someone you feel could benefit.)
|
| I've even found myself rambling about side project ideas with
| my therapist, which was surprisingly helpful when they pushed
| back against the inevitable "but it's a stupid idea of course,
| so I probably wont do anything with it."
| bitcoinmoney wrote:
| What's the hourly?
| andygcook wrote:
| Agreed with you. When I read the article, the last parts of
| the quotes below stood out to me that he's basically acting
| as a stand-in for a licensed therapist:
|
| "At times he will participate in a gaming session to make up
| numbers, turn up to send off people who are moving away,
| accompany those filing for divorce, or listen to health care
| workers who have become mentally unwell due to their
| exhausting work."
|
| Also, "She asked him to stay beside her when meeting a man
| for the first time, and also had him listen to her talk about
| her views on love, which she could not divulge to her
| friends..."
|
| I've seen a therapist off and on over the years and can't
| recommend it enough. I also found it pretty helpful as a
| startup founder/CEO for pushing back on my
| assumptions/biases.
| [deleted]
| peter_retief wrote:
| I would be quite good at that, anyone want to rent me to do
| nothing?
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