[HN Gopher] 'Rent-a-person who does nothing' in Tokyo receives e...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       'Rent-a-person who does nothing' in Tokyo receives endless
       requests, gratitude
        
       Author : gmays
       Score  : 402 points
       Date   : 2021-01-14 16:15 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mainichi.jp)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mainichi.jp)
        
       | atlgator wrote:
       | So he's just selling his time... like an escort /s
        
       | kiba wrote:
       | People in Japan sometime rent out actors to act as parents,
       | lovers, relatives, etc at weddings, marriage interview, and other
       | occasions. This is nothing new.
        
         | gxqoz wrote:
         | Turns out the most famous article about this was based on a
         | hoax: https://newrepublic.com/article/160595/new-yorker-japan-
         | rent...
         | 
         | "If Japan's family rental phenomenon is "well documented," as
         | The New Yorker claims, it is not well documented in the article
         | itself. Despite describing a "wave" of rental families
         | beginning in the 1980s, and noting their prevalence in
         | literature and movies, there is no concrete sense of how many
         | people have actually used these services. Other recent articles
         | about the phenomenon almost invariably cite Family Romance,
         | which appears to have been thoroughly discredited. As Hiroko
         | Tabuchi of The New York Times noted, "[W]hile it's unclear it
         | provides 'family rental' services on any significant scale, it
         | did run a wildly effective media campaign, feeding false
         | anecdotes to outlets looking for a wacky story.""
        
           | rossvor wrote:
           | How can you "discredit" a fictional drama film? (Family
           | Romance, LLC). Has "Inglourious Basterds" also been
           | thoroughly discredited?
           | 
           | EDIT: Nevermind, apparently there exists an actual, real
           | company named "Family Romance", that's what parent poster's
           | quote is referring to.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | boxmonster wrote:
       | I used to drive Uber as a retired programmer and found out I have
       | a talent for putting people at ease. I've been told I'm a calm
       | person. I've also been told I'm kind and a good listener. I quit
       | Uber because of the pandemic. Maybe after I get vaccinated I'll
       | give this a try, but I don't know how well it would work in
       | Silicon Valley because everyone is in such a hurry.
        
       | xyzelement wrote:
       | I can't quite put my finger on how to define "this" but it seems
       | like stories like "this" have been replacing stories of drive and
       | grit in our cultural lore.
       | 
       | It's en vogue now to talk about "doing nothing" or making it
       | sound normal that you need to hire someone you don't know to
       | accompany you to visit the hospital, etc.
       | 
       | I am sure this is a part of the human experience but is it really
       | a part we need to normalize, versus reconnecting with the culture
       | of yesteryear of toughness, resilience, independence and
       | productivity?
       | 
       | The reason I say this is because I think the world is a tough
       | competitive place whether we act like it or not. There's a
       | premium to be someone (and a nation of someones) who can deal
       | with harsh realities and crush through adversity. Every society
       | that got to "the top" got there because of this, and I suspect
       | every society that declined did so because of overindulgence in
       | decadence and weakness. We don't want that.
        
         | wilburTheDog wrote:
         | I think there is another level to what this guy is doing that's
         | hard to see if you just believe what he says about himself on
         | its face. I feel like to be able to listen to and or be with
         | someone while they do whatever and have no judgement,
         | criticism, or suggestion requires you to have a very high level
         | of Zen. I would probably want to correct or assist or do
         | something in most situations. He's operating on the level of a
         | therapist. But it's hard for people to admit sometimes that
         | they need a therapist. There is a stigma and a feeling like
         | there is something wrong with you that you have to get over
         | just to ask for a therapist. This guy skips over all of that
         | resistance by having, by all appearances, no ego at all. He's
         | saying 'I don't have any skills so I can't possibly criticize
         | you'. But having no skills doesn't stop most people from making
         | suggestions or being critical. He is providing high value
         | assistance to people and presenting himself in such a humble
         | way that it's easy to ask for his help.
        
           | xyzelement wrote:
           | I actually agree with that, I do think therapy and "getting
           | things out of your head" are incredibly valuable. I don't
           | have a problem with this guy - basically he found a way to
           | make money doing what capitalism has deemed a valuable
           | service so he's OK in my book. He's working and building.
           | 
           | My problem is more with the cultural ethos and the vibe of
           | this story and what it and stories like it appear to
           | celebrate or at least normalize.
           | 
           | This headline should have been "enterprising Japanese man
           | builds a service and earns a good living satisfying the needs
           | of others that they value and pay for" :)
        
         | bentcorner wrote:
         | You get out what you put in - I see this story as someone
         | making the best of a bad situation, finding a unique niche and
         | innovating something that didn't exist before.
         | 
         | (If the story is indeed true) "Doing nothing" is just click-
         | bait - he's definitely not doing nothing, he's connecting with
         | people who need it, and has built it into a business with a
         | twitter following.
        
         | hh3k0 wrote:
         | > The reason I say this is because I think the world is a tough
         | competitive place whether we act like it or not.
         | 
         | It doesn't have to be, though.
         | 
         | I guess the individuals featured in such stories are the change
         | they want to see in the world.
        
           | xyzelement wrote:
           | Sorry, but LOL. You can't opt out of competition any more
           | than you can opt out of gravity.
           | 
           | If you aren't "strong" enough to do the hard work, someone
           | else in your town will do it and reap the rewards while you
           | become irrelevant. If your whole town opts out, some other
           | part of the country will do it while your town drifts away
           | into irrelevance and poverty.
           | 
           | If the whole country opts out, some other young and hungry
           | country will take advantage of the opportunities your country
           | passes up, until that country makes your country irrelevant.
           | 
           | Everything we have is because we or our ancestors (whether
           | literal ancestors or the people that built the countries we
           | live in) did the hard work. A few people can opt out and
           | free-ride on others. But if the whole culture opts out, the
           | whole culture will become irrelevant.
        
             | larkeith wrote:
             | > You can't opt out of competition any more than you can
             | opt out of gravity.
             | 
             | Perhaps not as an individual, but I wonder about as a
             | society - I don't know how we would get to this point, but
             | imagine the sheer potential we as a culture could unlock by
             | moving to a more cooperative model; consider the billions
             | upon billions of person-hours wasted on things like stock
             | trading, internal politicking, and marketing/advertising:
             | all the things that provide no value to the race, but
             | "required" to facilitate interpersonal competition.
             | 
             | Of course, none of that is against your primary point,
             | which is that hard work is still, on the whole, required.
             | It just irritates me to see competition equated to a law of
             | nature; we're not animals, we can choose whether and how
             | competition applies.
        
               | xyzelement wrote:
               | Sure, I agree with that. There is plenty of cooperation
               | in the world, when two strong parties come together and
               | say "this will work out better for us if we do it
               | together."
               | 
               | My main point and I think you agree, is that you can
               | never get there from a position of weakness and laze. No
               | one is going to throw in their lot cooperating with you
               | if your ethos is to "do nothing" or if you aren't
               | functioning as an adult (whether an adult individual or
               | an adult nation/country.)
        
         | klmadfejno wrote:
         | Japan has a stronger culture of people being ok not chasing
         | great wealth. You don't need to be at the top, Japan or
         | otherwise. It won't make you happy.
         | 
         | Being at the bottom might be nice to avoid though.
        
         | ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
         | Everybody knows the world is a horrible, heartless, unfair
         | place. They do when they visit their dying relatives in the
         | hospital, when they go through gut wrenching legal proceedings
         | with a person they once loved, when their boss tells them
         | they're worthless. We all crush through harsh realities on the
         | daily, having someone by your side doesn't make you weak. There
         | is nothing to "normalize", if anything the abnormal thing is
         | that we strayed from it to a culture that pretends the
         | individual is all powerful, a masturbatory illusion of absolute
         | self-reliance.
         | 
         | Grit will help you right up until you jump off a bridge. Very
         | few people succeed through sheer tyranny of will, most do
         | because they have a support network that helps them survive.
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | I wonder if you can rent him to sit in Zoom meetings doing
       | nothing.
        
       | partiallypro wrote:
       | This describes most companies, where ~30% does the work and ~70%
       | rides the coat tails or steps in every once in a while.
        
       | asimjalis wrote:
       | Focusmate is basically the same idea.
       | 
       | https://focusmate.com
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | I've been renting hundreds of people who do nothing for years.
       | From Capgemini. Nothing Japanese about it!
        
         | jmartrican wrote:
         | Worked at a company that did the same for $20 MM.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | But they received no gratitude at all while sending endless
         | requets.
        
         | robofanatic wrote:
         | and how is that relevant to this story?
        
           | fastball wrote:
           | It's a joke, and it's funny. Lighten up.
        
             | KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
             | Jokes like these are literally not allowed on HN.
        
               | fastball wrote:
               | I think I missed that part of the HN guidelines, could
               | you point me in the right direction?
        
               | jachee wrote:
               | At the risk of getting too meta, the words "joke" "funny"
               | and "humor" don't appear on the HN Guidelines[0] page at
               | all. Nothing in there about staying 100% serious 100% of
               | the time.
               | 
               | [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
               | fwip wrote:
               | I mean, the second sentence of the "In Comments" section:
               | 
               | > Be kind. Don't be snarky.
               | 
               | In this case it's snarking at the consulting company, but
               | is that alright because they're not actually involved in
               | the story or thread?
        
               | jrh206 wrote:
               | Jokes aren't necessarily snarky - I don't read any
               | malicious undertone from this joke, which I think is
               | necessary to be considered snarky
        
               | 11thEarlOfMar wrote:
               | It's so funny that you said 'literally'.
        
               | fhools wrote:
               | wait, are you making a joke there?
        
         | heyoni wrote:
         | Can you tell us more about how you've been using this service?
        
           | mjamil wrote:
           | GP is being humorous, and cracking a joke about consulting
           | companies and their productivity.
        
             | heyoni wrote:
             | Oh had no idea who that company was lol. Was going to look
             | it up.
        
               | trailmonster wrote:
               | but instead commented with out knowledge. you are the
               | internet's problem.
        
             | robofanatic wrote:
             | most people would get downvoted for that. GP seems to be
             | special :-)
        
             | DavidAdams wrote:
             | Substitute McKinsey, Bain, or Accenture for a US version of
             | the joke.
        
       | d00bianista wrote:
       | This could be turned into a great, possibly awkward, movie.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | lordnacho wrote:
         | It couldn't be great if it wasn't awkward
        
         | nnadams wrote:
         | I was thinking the same thing. A 90 minute movie where he
         | doesn't say a single word. It could be one day in his life just
         | being there for his different clients.
        
       | dghf wrote:
       | They also serve who only stand and wait.
        
       | endeavorchan wrote:
       | Cool
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | 11thEarlOfMar wrote:
       | The loneliness market.
        
       | pontifier wrote:
       | I've had a fantastic boost in productivity lately due to paying
       | some unemployed homeless people I know to watch me programming.
       | 
       | It's somewhere between rubber duck and pair programming. They
       | might be learning a bit, and explaining things really keeps me on
       | task.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | hbag wrote:
       | Well, shit, I'm in the wrong business.
        
       | b0rsuk wrote:
       | According to the late David Graeber, this has been going for a
       | while now. He defines one category of "bullshit jobs" as
       | flunkies. Typically people who are hired to make someone else
       | look good. For example a CEO must have a secretary or an
       | assistant or analyst so they hire one. They do perform a role of
       | sorts, but their output is completely irrelevant.
       | 
       | It's really not far from suits, especially white ones, white
       | gloves, or high heels. Such apparel demonstrates that you don't
       | work, in fact that you can't work. Ancient Romans liked to have
       | feasts while laying on their sides - it's very inconvenient to
       | reach for things and you must use servants. Another status symbol
       | is a wristwatch with dials but no numbers. Female shirts are
       | unbuttoned from the opposite side - so they're comfortable to
       | unbutton for the servants.
        
       | notahacker wrote:
       | As this is HN, I assume some readers are already preparing
       | pitchdecks to raise funding for the gig economy marketplace to
       | match people who want nothing to people willing to do absolutely
       | nothing for them.
        
       | liquidify wrote:
       | What he is doing is certainly not easy. I can understand why
       | people would pay for it. I'd use it as a form of rubber duck
       | programming, but with an actual person that you have to at least
       | act like you are trying to make understand.
        
         | breck wrote:
         | Listener as a service.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | 'Conversational Commerce'
        
       | hospadar wrote:
       | Isn't this just describing a therapist? I don't mean that to
       | belittle this (whether it be real or fake), I think therapy is
       | great, and I often feel like therapy could (and does, I suppose)
       | exist in many more formats than just sitting-on-couch-in-quiet-
       | office (rent-a-friend, good psychics, good religious leaders,
       | bartenders, etc, etc).
       | 
       | Whether real or not, I think the fact that it _sounds_ plausible
       | [at least enough to be a good satire] suggests that there's
       | probably something to the idea that having a fairly neutral
       | companion is pretty valuable.
        
         | Igelau wrote:
         | > having a fairly neutral companion is pretty valuable
         | 
         | I think this is true. Not a "yes man", but an "is that so?
         | man".
         | 
         | Conversely, the friends I can argue with vehemently and yet
         | have neither of us take it personally -- they are rare and dear
         | to me.
        
         | TulliusCicero wrote:
         | It's like a very passive therapist slash low-key friend who can
         | go with you to different places.
        
         | schwartzworld wrote:
         | No, the jobs he was hired for don't sound like a therapist at
         | all. At most he is only willing to offer feedback, but most of
         | the jobs are literally just people wanting an extra person for
         | a variety of reasons.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | No, therapists make you do homework. The job involves more than
         | lending a sympathetic ear and pocketing the cash.
         | 
         | Behavioural change doesn't happen by just talking. Maybe that's
         | for session 1, but for session 2, you'll have to do work to
         | understand your feelings, what triggers them and how to set up
         | your life and daily schedule to manage them. To do this you
         | will likely be asked to keep a mood diary, and review the
         | results during the sessions.
         | 
         | Lots of people quit therapy because it's expensive and their
         | employer may only cover the cost of say 10 sessions. But a lot
         | of people quit well before that because they go into it
         | thinking that they'll "let it all out" and get instant results.
        
       | chickenmonkey wrote:
       | Ultimately, perhaps some of these people are really looking for a
       | therapist.
        
         | tartoran wrote:
         | I think this whole thing comes from a place of generalized
         | loneliness and lack of genuine human contact between people.
         | Technology's other edge has enabled physical isolation quite a
         | bit.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | anotherman554 wrote:
         | I saw a lecture on psychology 101-- I think it was the free
         | online one from Stanford-- where the professor said the main
         | benefit of talk therapy is just having someone who cares about
         | your problems for 45 minutes.
         | 
         | So he what he is doing _is_ therapy.
        
           | hctaw wrote:
           | In my experience this can be an extremely harmful approach to
           | talk therapy (and talking about therapy).
           | 
           | The main benefit is having someone trained to listen for
           | specific symptoms based on what you talk about and to develop
           | treatment strategies based on what you discuss and symptoms
           | you experience.
           | 
           | I wouldn't reduce it to "having someone who cares about your
           | problems for 45 minutes." It's more like "talking about your
           | problems for 45 minutes to someone who can recognize which
           | ones are rational, which ones aren't, and can discuss with
           | you how to mitigate the negative effects of your own
           | irrational thoughts."
        
           | closeparen wrote:
           | Part of the "humans are social creatures" thing -
           | communication is thought. Explaining yourself to another
           | person organizes and makes connections within your ideas that
           | rumination doesn't.
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | I have a good friend who is a Reiki practitioner.
           | 
           | We don't have deep conversations about theory of function,
           | but the peripheral mentions that creep into our conversations
           | seem to point in this same direction.
        
         | pantelisk wrote:
         | I 've seen people react with a "oh so wacky japan" attitude
         | when something like this pops up. But I agree with you, this is
         | nothing more than a form of therapy.
         | 
         | > Another reflected, "I had been slack about visiting the
         | hospital, but I went because he came with me."
         | 
         | I have seen multiple people be much more eager and diligent in
         | taking a pet to the vet, than taking care of theirselves (due
         | to fear, shame, and an if you ignore it long enough mentality)
         | this hits hard.
        
           | dkersten wrote:
           | For me personally, I'm more likely to take a pet to the vet
           | because I'd feel guilty about neglecting a pet, while I can
           | neglect myself without feeling guilty (just like I do when I
           | knowingly eat too much junk food or don't exercise enough or
           | whatever -- I know its bad, but I can ignore it).
        
           | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
           | Well, in the US at least a vet is significantly less
           | expensive.
        
             | birdyrooster wrote:
             | And in my experience pet insurance is more generous than
             | human insurance
        
             | vonmoltke wrote:
             | Depends on what you need. I just paid three times more to
             | get my dog a flu shot than it would have cost me to get for
             | myself without insurance.
             | 
             | I agree, though, that doctors for non-humans are generally
             | cheaper than those for humans.
        
         | Blikkentrekker wrote:
         | The problem with therapists is that therapists tend to come of
         | as a position of authority and that that, for many, makes them
         | less effective.
         | 
         | This man takes the position of a peer.
        
           | TulliusCicero wrote:
           | An unassuming, low-key peer at that.
        
         | kazinator wrote:
         | While that meets the definition of "person that does nothing",
         | but is not the cheapest alternative. That person has student
         | loans to pay off.
        
         | dstick wrote:
         | Is it therapy though? It feels more like they're buying slim
         | verticals you'd normally "get" in a romantic relationship.
        
           | colinj2 wrote:
           | A close personal friend is also a good stand-in for this type
           | stuff.
        
         | bjeds wrote:
         | ... but without the stigma.
         | 
         | But I think the guy himself has a point when he says he lowers
         | the bar. Think how many different jobs (or "roles") there that
         | can be ranked in a kind of hierarchy: not in the sense of a
         | career ladder, but in services and expertise offered. Between
         | the bottom of this hierarchy, and nothing, is a gap to fill.
         | 
         | Take for example personal protection. Sure, if I need a high
         | tier of that service, I could get myself a bodyguard, maybe one
         | of those with ex-military experience and all the combat
         | training etc. Between that and "nothing" is a random joe who
         | tags along to the Tinder date, like this guy.
         | 
         | Or sure I could meet a licensed therapist. Don't want to? Can
         | meet a friend. Don't have one? This random dude to the rescue.
        
           | pnathan wrote:
           | Yes, this isn't just _therapy_. Although apparently he
           | provides that in a highly limited way. I think "someone to
           | tag along in uncertain & common situations" is a useful
           | service.
           | 
           | I also think that there's probably a _lot_ lost in
           | translation, and would be very interested in a JP resident  /
           | speaker providing commentary and context.
        
       | AS37 wrote:
       | Seems similar to RentAFriend, founded 2009.
       | 
       | https://rentafriend.com/
        
       | gpmcadam wrote:
       | OnlyFriends
        
       | the_local_host wrote:
       | > "I get upset when people simply tell me keep on trying. When
       | someone is trying to do something, I think the best thing to do
       | is to help lower the bar for them by staying at their side"
       | 
       | This is brilliant.
        
         | nonbirithm wrote:
         | Nobody that I seek advice for in online communities seems to
         | understand this. Too often I know I'm doing it wrong, and I get
         | told back the equivalent of "well, because you're doing it
         | wrong. What did you expect?"
         | 
         | I keep thinking that just sharing a room with someone that
         | ignores me and just does exactly what it is I'm trying to do
         | would be ten times more helpful than being picked apart for all
         | my flaws (which I understand exist, that's why I want
         | accountability to fix them).
         | 
         | The less time it takes for me to go from a game over screen to
         | my next life, the more likely I'm not going to just quit the
         | game in frustration. Preferably that time is zero seconds.
        
           | Hnrobert42 wrote:
           | I hear what you are saying.
        
         | uhtred wrote:
         | On a second read that sentence became even funnier.
        
           | DoofusOfDeath wrote:
           | My humor-detector is going wild, but I can't figure out the
           | joke(s). I really hope I just need more coffee.
        
             | uhtred wrote:
             | I found it funnier off the back of reading the whole
             | article and seeing his picture - he just came across as
             | having a dry sense of humor. Being told to "keep on trying"
             | is very frustrating, like, what do you think I've been
             | doing all this time?! Also this: "Morimoto got a job with a
             | publisher after finishing a graduate degree, but found it
             | hard to fit in and left. His boss said sarcastically, "It
             | doesn't matter if you're here or not." I get the impression
             | he sees the comedy in being told that.
        
             | bittercynic wrote:
             | For me the two meanings are:
             | 
             | *having someone by your side makes a task easier.
             | 
             | *they get a relative boost because I'm so terrible.
             | 
             | Anyone see additional meanings?
             | 
             | (edited for formatting and to add question)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | scotty79 wrote:
       | If you think about it, it's a bit surprising how many people, you
       | think, couldn't do his job.
        
         | imaginenore wrote:
         | Doing nothing is my hell. Waste of your life.
        
         | dubcanada wrote:
         | This and similar support jobs (mental health type jobs) are
         | probably the hardest jobs in the world. Not only for the person
         | doing it, but the requirements for such a thing are just
         | astronomical and not really something you can learn. You can
         | learn aspects of it, but to excel it requires a certain type of
         | person.
        
           | tartoran wrote:
           | > You can learn aspects of it, but to excel it requires a
           | certain type of person.
           | 
           | This is a big problem in employment. To have successful
           | workers the right person needs to get to the right job.
           | Bureaucracy and politics pay are huge deterrents for this
           | type of work. I've seen people who would love to be teachers
           | and they'd be (somehow) okay with a low pay but not with the
           | amount of paperwork and politics they had to deal with.
        
           | leetcrew wrote:
           | apparently one of the things people hire this guy for is just
           | to wave goodbye when they move away. I agree not just anyone
           | could do that in an appropriately sensitive way, but to say
           | the requirements are astronomical seems like an
           | overstatement.
        
             | squidlogic wrote:
             | This reminds me of professional mourning [1]. Throughout
             | history there have been professionals that help families
             | grieve in different ways. Hiring someone to wave goodbye
             | when you move strikes me as a similar function. Both are
             | offering emotional services during a time of transition,
             | albeit in very different ways.
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_mourning
        
         | resonantjacket5 wrote:
         | I've heard it's more like an acting role.
         | 
         | You can't literally do nothing.
        
           | hdesh wrote:
           | Obligatory seinfeld bit on this one -
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhPt8_yNqlA
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | Challenge accepted.
        
             | scaladev wrote:
             | You have already failed by posting this comment.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | I expected this, but the game I didn't sign the contract
               | yet.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | 1MachineElf wrote:
       | Good to know there are employment prospects for me if I ever
       | decide to move to Japan.
        
       | aanet wrote:
       | This man is my hero.
       | 
       | He doesn't boast his credentials or nor indeed his work, such as
       | it is. He is totally Zen about it.
       | 
       | Aspirational!
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | sugoine. Cun Zai surudakede, oJin womoraeru.
       | 
       | Suan Su woXi tsute, Er Suan Hua Tan Su woTu ite, Gei Liao woJia
       | geru.
        
         | kleer001 wrote:
         | Ji Shi womouYi Du Du mu
        
       | lowracle wrote:
       | People who aren't self obsessed are becoming rare. It's an
       | interesting development. I guess it must be hard to find a friend
       | who listens and give feedback instead of talking about
       | themselves.
        
       | Karuma wrote:
       | A friendly reminder that Japan's rent-a-family industry was
       | completely fake: https://newrepublic.com/article/160595/new-
       | yorker-japan-rent...
       | 
       | Everyone loves stories about how weird Japan is (especially the
       | Japanese), so these stories should be taken with a grain of salt.
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | I started questioning the western narrative about Japan when I
         | learned that the fertility and suicide rates are actually
         | _worse_ in my country.
         | 
         | Turns out a lot of "exotic" problems in this country are all
         | too familiar.
        
           | TravelPiglet wrote:
           | As long as people don't ruin my view of Germany being the EU
           | version of Japan kinky preferences and all
        
             | Blikkentrekker wrote:
             | Leaving the sex out of it, a common statement is that
             | England is the Japan or Europe.
             | 
             | There are actually remarkable similarities in culture which
             | are possibly influenced due to both being iland states.
             | 
             | https://bccjacumen.com/uk%E2%80%93japan-closer-than-you-
             | thin...
             | 
             | These do not dive all that much into sexual media however.
             | The Anglo-Saxon is infamously sexually traditional and
             | repressed, and the Englishman second only to the
             | Australiaman. Australia recently actually banned the import
             | of Japanese pornography.
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDmbo5dxgQg
             | 
             | He's wrong, however -- _Eromanga Sensei_ is far from the
             | worst. I would love for him to take a stab at _Night Shift
             | Nurses_ or _Aki-Sora_ -- the latter so amazing that even
             | Tokyo itself made laws to contain it 's carnal sins against
             | mankind.
        
             | Tade0 wrote:
             | To me Japan is more like asian Switzerland.
             | 
             | The tidyness, amazingly punctual trains, mountains and
             | general conservatism make both those countries stand out.
        
               | asutekku wrote:
               | Man, you have not been major city areas if you think
               | japan is tidy. Sure, compared to the US it maybe is, but
               | a lot of european countries are better. But travel a bit
               | further from the city centres in japan and you'll start
               | seeing all those illegal trash sites at quiet mountain
               | roads and yards full of old trash.
        
           | jbay808 wrote:
           | In terms of framing as a Western narrative... This is an
           | article in the _Mainichi_ , a major Japanese newspaper.
           | Original Japanese version here:
           | https://mainichi.jp/articles/20210111/k00/00m/040/021000c
        
         | jogu wrote:
         | > Japan's rent-a-family industry was completely fake
         | 
         | That's really not what that article is claiming. It's claiming
         | that a particular individual has lied about the industry and
         | made it seem stranger than it actually is and the western media
         | has sensationalized that even further.
         | 
         | There absolutely are rental services for boyfriends,
         | girlfriends, mothers, fathers, etc. in Japan, they're just not
         | as bizarre as some of these articles would lead you to believe.
        
           | exclusiv wrote:
           | Separately, I've heard personal reports and seen a
           | documentary about young Japanese men in general.
           | 
           | It was said that their mothers do everything for them and for
           | a much longer time than other countries. Is this true?
        
             | shagie wrote:
             | The word you are looking at is "amae" ... along with a
             | large amount of material about it (and how it is
             | interpreted and how it is misinterpreted).
             | 
             | The classic book on the subject is "The Anatomy of
             | Dependence"
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anatomy_of_Dependence
             | 
             | The gist of this is that the parent-child relationship is
             | the ideal one and that extends into the relationships in a
             | collectivist society including that of a manager to an
             | employee.
             | 
             | And so the doting mother to her child... extends a bit
             | longer. The doting mother part isn't new - but rather that
             | that relationship is seen as the ideal one... gets into
             | cultural comparisons.
             | 
             | ... but that's the word that can set you on the search for
             | understanding of that phenomena.
        
           | Blikkentrekker wrote:
           | _Girlfriend experience_ -escorts are also not that uncommon
           | outside of Japan.
           | 
           | Bars where one buys a good conversation along with the meal,
           | cafes where the waiters roleplay as one's doting sibling,
           | renting a parent, used underwear from vending machines, maid
           | cafes, maid cafes where the maids are all cross-dressing
           | males, cafes where the attractive male waiters make out with
           | each other for the viewing pleasure of the customer base,
           | cafes where the attractive female waiters wear no underwear,
           | short skirts, and the floors are mirrored -- well, that's the
           | _joie de vivre_ that has a big "only in Japan" sticker on it.
           | 
           | The second place with distance is the U.S.A. that at least
           | has cafes where the attractive female waiters wear skimpy
           | outfits, cheerleaders, and bikini car wash -- but the rest of
           | the world that has nothing that comes close to this well-
           | inspired madness.
        
             | glandium wrote:
             | Note: for many of the "weird" things you list, there's
             | _one_ place doing it, not several, like the use of plural
             | may suggest (AFAIK).
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | Such as which example?
               | 
               | I have knowledge of the existence of multiple in almost
               | all of what I listed.
        
               | glandium wrote:
               | Used underwear vending machine, last I heard, there's
               | only one. Yaoi cafe, AFAIK, there's only one. And I would
               | be surprised if there's more than one cafe with the glass
               | floor and no underwear.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | Well, you seem to be wrong about all three:
               | 
               | https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-
               | ikebukuro...
               | 
               | This article reviews three different _boy 's love_ cafes,
               | in close proximity to one another.
               | 
               | I'm not sure how derive the conclusion that there is only
               | one used underwear vending machine; a simple image search
               | reveals many different models:
               | 
               | https://www.techinasia.com/japan-used-panty-vending-
               | machines...
               | 
               | This article concludes that the most extreme stories
               | about one at every corner are an exaggeration, but one
               | can definitely find them.
               | 
               | As for the cafes without underwear: there is definitely
               | more than one, though they've been on a decline.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa
        
               | glandium wrote:
               | > https://livejapan.com/en/in-tokyo/in-pref-tokyo/in-
               | ikebukuro...
               | 
               | Of the 3, only the first one is overtly Yaoi. I don't
               | know the second one, but it doesn't seem like one, and
               | the Butler cafe is definitely not Yaoi.
               | 
               | > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-pan_kissa
               | 
               | After the boom in the 80s (30+ years ago), are there
               | really any left, with the glass floor and everything?
        
             | michaelpb wrote:
             | That's not true. Cafes that cater to lonely straight men or
             | misogynistic businessmen exist worldwide.
             | 
             | Just one example: All the different "cafe con piernas"
             | cafes in Chile, which are very similar to Japanese maid
             | cafes.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | How is that similar to maid cafes, let alone cafes where
               | the waiters act as if they be one's doting sibling?
               | 
               | You seem to have reduced my rather wild and spectacular
               | examples to something so mundane as: " _Cafes that cater
               | to lonely straight men or misogynistic businessmen exist_
               | ", especially when most of my examples have nothing to do
               | with "straight men" or "misogynistic businessmen".
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | Yeah if you just read all these articles about Japan, you'd
         | think that all young men beat off to hentai all day at their
         | parent's home, and that everyone is visiting "love hotels", or
         | buys used panties from vending machines. The media loves to
         | spin up an image of Japan to naive westerners by exaggerating
         | its quirks.
         | 
         | It reminds me of HN. If you read HN too much, you might think
         | that you can only write applications in Rust and Go using K8s,
         | no JavaScript but Typescript only, but in reality the vast
         | majority of apps being written are using boring technologies to
         | implement CRUD around a relational database.
        
           | pratik661 wrote:
           | I mentioned this phenomenon in a comment on an HN article
           | about caste in India:
           | 
           | " Something I've also noticed in Western media is that when
           | covering issues about other cultures (ie India, Middle East,
           | etc), the bar for evidence is pitifully low, especially if
           | the story matches existing confirmation bias."
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24952892
        
           | dalbasal wrote:
           | We need a new name for this kind of fallacy/bias. It's not
           | new, but more potent and prevalent than ever. Only saucy
           | stories get told, so we think it's _all_ sauce.
        
             | Dracophoenix wrote:
             | Marinara bias?
        
               | cartoonfoxes wrote:
               | I like this. All red sauces are not marinara.
        
               | dalbasal wrote:
               | works for me
        
           | burnthrow wrote:
           | Reading HN comments yesterday I learned that if I can't
           | quickly devise an algorithm to lay out stars evenly on a
           | flag, I'm worse than programmers _in training_.
        
           | f430 wrote:
           | I also think Kpop's influence is also exaggerated but I won't
           | argue against it's popularity amongst the young female/some
           | male crowd.
           | 
           | It's like when a Kpop/Kdrama fan approaches me expecting me
           | to know all of the pop culture when in my experience most
           | Koreans simply consider BTS to be like Justin Bieber.
           | 
           | Imagine if people from Japan starts asking you if you watch
           | Justin Bieber sing and then getting offended when you speak
           | the truth. This is exactly what people in Korea and Japan are
           | going through but you will almost never see them express it
           | but its getting extreme in some situations like below:
           | 
           | https://www.reddit.com/r/korea/comments/gxa6qr/this_girl_mak.
           | ..
           | 
           | Here you can see her physically harassing Korean men by
           | hugging them or trying to kiss them. It's getting to the
           | point where Western women are fetishizing Korean men similar
           | to how Asian women are often fetishized by foreigners (not
           | through popular culture but mainly through pornography).
        
           | dang wrote:
           | This subthread was originally a reply to
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25779139.
        
           | joerter12 wrote:
           | Thanks, I was just about to comment on how the social trends
           | coming out of Japan are quite disturbing. I hope it's as
           | exaggerated as you say.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | But who's 'the media' here? Occasionally you'll see a piece
           | in a major publication about Japanese consumer trends or
           | strange products that become big hits. More recently I've
           | seen articles about the hikikomori (sp?) "lost generation"
           | people that graduated just as the bubble burst 30 years ago.
           | But the rest of the coverage is 'normal'; political, business
           | and sports news.
           | 
           | The only place I ever see "weird Japan" content regularly is
           | Reddit and western vloggers living in Japan posting the most
           | sensationalist stuff possible.
        
             | dialamac wrote:
             | Case in point was already mentioned. The New Yorker is the
             | outlet that ran with the bullshit rent a family story.
        
               | joe11 wrote:
               | So lying Jewish scum, I'm not surprised.
        
               | glandium wrote:
               | It's not only the New Yorker. It was on many Youtube
               | channels, many news articles, etc.
               | 
               | It even made the news in Japan.
        
           | smorephism wrote:
           | > you might think that you can only write applications in
           | Rust and Go using K8s, no JavaScript but Typescript only
           | 
           | Pff. Everyone knows Haskell, Idris and Elixir are acceptable,
           | too.
        
             | alexanderdmitri wrote:
             | once you've started on Idris you've crossed the line over
             | from kinky to deviancy
             | 
             | source: there are several people in my weekly support group
             | for exactly this reason, it gets out of control
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | I would trust any type system that doesn't require me to
               | prove that my sorting algorithm maintains the length of
               | the vector it sorts.
        
           | closeparen wrote:
           | It would be extraordinary if young couples were having sex
           | within earshot of their parents, or not at all. "Love hotels"
           | seem like a pretty mundane adaptation to dating while living
           | with family.
        
           | Blikkentrekker wrote:
           | > _Yeah if you just read all these articles about Japan, you
           | 'd think that all young men beat off to hentai all day at
           | their parent's home, and that everyone is visiting "love
           | hotels", or buys used panties from vending machines._
           | 
           | Firstly, love hotels are a sign of not being lonely. They do
           | not offer a prostitute; those batteries are not included
           | 
           | Secondly, I do not gain the impression from that that all do
           | it, merely that they note that the very existence thereof is
           | exceptional. In particular, of the used underwear vending
           | machines, when the story broke many would not believe it and
           | thought it was a hoax, but it actually exists.
           | 
           | No one thinks that every U.S.A.-man bought an assault rifle
           | at a gas station or got one as a gift for opening up a bank
           | account, but that the practice even exists, that the number
           | of occurrence isn't zero -- that is something remarkable in
           | and of itself.
           | 
           | > _The media loves to spin up an image of Japan to naive_
           | westerners _by exaggerating its quirks._
           | 
           | What I must ask is why the term "western" invariably always
           | drops whenever Japan is discussed.
           | 
           | Experience taught me that more often than not "the west" in
           | that context simply means "The U.S.A.".
           | 
           | There is no "west" relevant to what you claim. All that
           | matters is "Japan" _vs._ "everything else" or at least anyone
           | not particularly experienced with Japan which applies as
           | easily to, say, India, Russia, Uganda, or Indonesia.
           | 
           | > _It reminds me of HN. If you read HN too much, you might
           | think that you can only write applications in Rust and Go
           | using K8s, no JavaScript but Typescript only, but in reality
           | the vast majority of apps being written are using boring
           | technologies to implement CRUD around a relational database._
           | 
           | I find that every time an article about a, shall we call it
           | "exciting language" is posted most of the comments, though
           | impressed with the theoretical innovations thereof, doubt
           | it's real world applicability.
        
             | glandium wrote:
             | > Firstly, love hotels are a sign of not being lonely. They
             | do not offer a prostitute; those batteries are not included
             | 
             | Look up "delivery health". The batteries may not be
             | included at the love hotel itself (although I've heard of
             | places that do come with a menu), but it's also a common
             | use of love hotels.
        
             | stickfigure wrote:
             | > Firstly, love hotels are a sign of not being lonely.
             | 
             | My observation from travel is that love hotels are a sign
             | of multigenerational housing. Young adults need somewhere
             | to go without their parents watching.
        
               | bserge wrote:
               | In my home country you can rent actual apartments in
               | completely normal buildings by the hour or by the night.
               | Everyone knows for what purpose.
               | 
               | They're actually cheaper and nicer than hotels, so if
               | you're not icky, it's a cheap way to stay in the country
               | -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
               | Tijdreiziger wrote:
               | Fascinating, which country is that? Do you just walk in
               | and say that you'd like to rent a room for 2 hours?
               | (These questions make it sound like I want to use this
               | service, but I'm just interested to hear about this
               | concept, lol)
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | 3np wrote:
             | BBC loves to fetishize Weird Japan. I know where you come
             | from, but from what I've seen this one checks out as
             | western.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | How many languages do you speak to confirm this idea?
               | 
               | Do you speak Pashto enough to know that Afghanistan does
               | not take the crown in this, for instance? Do you speak
               | Danish enough to know that Denmark also participates?
        
               | some_random wrote:
               | First you say "western" usually means the US, someone
               | disagrees and now you demand they speak Pashto and
               | Danish? Come on.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | How would that logic be faulty?
               | 
               | For him to confirm his claim that it is a specifically
               | "western" thing to treat Japan so in news sources, he has
               | to speak a variety of both "western" and "non western"
               | languages to truly ascertain that trend.
               | 
               | He must both confirm that it happens in "western" news
               | sources of many different countries, as well as that it
               | doesn't happen in "non western" news sources.
               | 
               | One would have to speak a considerable number of
               | languages to claim sufficient expertise in world news
               | reporting to make this claim.
        
               | skrebbel wrote:
               | You're being needlessly confrontational.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | Perhaps, but you suggested there was fault to be found
               | with my argument.
               | 
               | I'm not sure as to how I'm supposed to challenge the
               | challenge to my challenge without being "confrontational"
               | as you call it and point out the faults with the
               | argument.
        
               | some_random wrote:
               | Interesting, how many books have you read on the topic of
               | confrontation vs argumentation? I think you need at least
               | two to have a sufficient background to discuss the
               | concept.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | No, one doesn't, actually.
               | 
               | Only if one makes a claim about what is generally written
               | in such books.
        
               | Shared404 wrote:
               | > I'm not sure as to how I'm supposed to challenge the
               | challenge to my challenge without being "confrontational"
               | as you call it and point out the faults with the
               | argument.
               | 
               | This is a hard problem, and a difficult lesson to learn.
               | I know it took me a while, and I'm still bad at it.
               | 
               | I find it helps to make your points, while trying to
               | maintain a pleasant tone (Easier said than done, and I'm
               | not a good person to teach this). I also find it helps to
               | add questions asking for either other peoples opinions or
               | clarifications on their position, as that helps show that
               | you're not just talking, but also listening.
               | 
               | Edit: Also, the largest part for me at least is to
               | remember that an attack on your argument is not a
               | personal attack against you. I've had issues with doing
               | this my whole life, and am still working on it.
        
               | skrebbel wrote:
               | > _Perhaps, but you suggested_
               | 
               | I did not.
        
               | cambalache wrote:
               | You are a "quirky" fella to say the least. I think you
               | would feel at home in "Japan"
        
         | dumb1224 wrote:
         | I noticed this effect on me after years of living in Europe.
         | The perception of Japanese culture / society I had from before
         | I moved to Europe was quite different (these phenomena are to
         | some extent well-known but not an obsession). Now I fear my
         | understanding of all things Japanese is a little bit off (or at
         | least diverged) from my peers in my country.
        
           | Tijdreiziger wrote:
           | Your perception of Japan changed after you moved to Europe
           | [from another country]? Fascinating, can you expand on that?
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | >> about how weird Japan is (especially the Japanese)
         | 
         | Like countries where you can rent young girls to help launch
         | your latest computer game? There are people in LA that can
         | provide babies for TV/film appearances, preferably twins, with
         | only a few hours notice. That's how the Olsen twins got
         | started. The entire entertainment industry, from strip clubs to
         | hollywood, is premised on renting people to pretend to be
         | something they aren't, to provide personal appearances in
         | places they would otherwise not. It only become weird when you
         | describe it in non-industry terms.
        
           | exclusiv wrote:
           | No the article is odd/fascinating because most people's
           | "rent-a-person" would be a friend or family member. And there
           | would be no exchange of money.
           | 
           | It's kind of sad people have to hire people to do friendly
           | things, but this is a pandemic. And you would "rent-a-person"
           | to move probably in most places (unless you had great friends
           | haha).
           | 
           | Also this makes sense "I'm not a friend or an acquaintance.
           | I'm free of the bothersome things that accompany
           | relationships, but can ease people's sense of loneliness"
           | 
           | So you want a throwaway friend. Or a casual therapist that
           | does things with you. Rent them. Ok I guess not as weird as
           | first glance. We have something similar in the US - life
           | coaches which seemingly everyone on LinkedIn is nowadays.
        
         | miles wrote:
         | > Japan's rent-a-family industry was completely fake
         | 
         | It is very real:
         | 
         | huamiriromansuShe [(Jia Zu rentaru)] Jia Zu Dai Xing Dai Li
         | narahuamirirentaruZhuan Men  https://family-
         | romance.com/family.html
         | 
         | [Ta Ren ninarikiru] Dai Xing sabisugaRen Qi Bo su[Chi
         | tsutehoshii] toiuYi Lai mo
         | https://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/19410877/
        
           | glandium wrote:
           | Note that Family Romance _is_ the company GP 's article is
           | about. It may not be entirely fake, but the stories that made
           | the news were. (and both your links are about that company)
        
             | miles wrote:
             | Yes, it is the company cited in the article. It is very
             | real and provides very real services:
             | 
             | How to Rent Friends in Japan
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jag6iyrSjsI
             | 
             | Rental families to heal lonely souls in Japan
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OURBpPLewoU
             | 
             | We Rented A Girlfriend In Japan
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLBNO33bMX0
             | 
             | Behind Japan's Fake-Family Industry
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEhYMirs7fk
        
               | glandium wrote:
               | You'll have to admit it's hard to take any of these
               | seriously when they are all about the same company that
               | has been reported to embellish things to put it mildly.
               | Well, except for Max D. Capo's, he used a different
               | service.
        
         | Blikkentrekker wrote:
         | The difference is that this article alleges the existence of a
         | single individual, rather than a trend.
         | 
         | The other article spoke in vague words of quantity, which is
         | quite common in news articles, that a certain quantity is
         | suggested, but actual numbers are never shown.
         | 
         | They are then not technically wrong but know full well most
         | readers would infer a more spectacular claim than what they
         | know the truth is.
         | 
         | I'd argue that when numbers actually be spectacular, news
         | articles invariably cite them, and when they not be, cover them
         | up in vague words -- in this case however the number is 1, as
         | it's about a single man only.
        
           | CobrastanJorji wrote:
           | Yes, but the article's critique is a good one. "Look at this
           | weird thing that they do in Japan" is practically a genre of
           | online story. Japan gets a special media callout, to quote
           | the article, as a "menagerie of the weird, the alien, the
           | freakish."
           | 
           | When you see these articles about folks in the U.S., it's
           | framed at "this guy is weird." When you see these articles
           | about folks in Japan, it's frequently framed as "Japan is
           | weird, and anti-social, and they don't have enough sex, and
           | if we're not careful this could be us one day!"
        
             | Blikkentrekker wrote:
             | Yes, it does seem to be about stereotypes, not so much
             | quirks per se.
             | 
             | The Japanese stereotype is that they are lonely, and it is
             | true that in Japan various things that cater to that, such
             | as Host Clubs, are more common place.
             | 
             | There was also an article about how the Netherlands
             | supposedly pays for prostitutes for the disabled, diving
             | into the stereotype how the Netherlands tends to sit at the
             | vanguard of encouraging sexual nontraditionality -- the
             | reality was less interesting and could be summed up as: A)
             | disabled persons obtain financial support from the state;
             | B) prostitution is legal.
             | 
             | I also read articles about the Norwegian military having
             | unisex showers and dorms, which also ties into
             | stereotypical expectations, notwithstanding their existence
             | in other places, I'm sure.
        
         | not2b wrote:
         | Has anyone found this guy's Twitter handle? That would be one
         | way to check the story. Probably easier for a Japanese speaker
         | to locate.
        
           | scarmig wrote:
           | Twitter handle:
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/morimotoshoji
           | 
           | Obviously the existence of the Twitter handle is just the
           | first step in some kind of real verification. But it does
           | confirm that, if it's a con, it's a long lived, dedicated
           | one.
        
             | lhorie wrote:
             | The pinned tweet explains the service. Auto-translation is
             | a bit broken, but should translate roughly to this:
             | 
             | "I'm starting a service called 'rental person who does
             | nothing'. [For example] for stores where entering alone is
             | difficult[0], for matching the number of players in a game,
             | to hold a hanami[1] spot. Please only use it for cases
             | where one person is needed. I charge 10,000 yen, plus
             | transportation fare from Kokubunji station, and food and
             | drink (if applicable). I won't do anything other than very
             | simple responses."
             | 
             | So it's not strictly a listening service per se.
             | 
             | [0] in Japan, there are food stores that are geared towards
             | couples
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanami (the context here
             | is holding a picnic spot)
        
               | perennate wrote:
               | The translated tweet matches the impression I got from
               | the article. The article didn't make me think that it is
               | specifically a "listening service".
               | 
               | > "People rent him for various reasons. At times he will
               | participate in a gaming session to make up numbers, turn
               | up to send off people who are moving away, accompany
               | those filing for divorce, or listen to health care
               | workers who have become mentally unwell due to their
               | exhausting work."
        
               | lhorie wrote:
               | > The article didn't make me think that it is
               | specifically a "listening service"
               | 
               | Yeah, I agree, but it seems like people are drawing
               | parallels to emotional support things like that rent-a-
               | family thing. While they are both extremely unusual gigs,
               | it seems like this guy's interactions would at best be
               | just nodding along, rather than reciprocating (even if in
               | a fake way).
        
         | gowld wrote:
         | I wish there was a way to thank and promote fact-
         | checkers/remindes like you to a level on par with the liars. We
         | need better reputation network management tools.
        
         | moralestapia wrote:
         | Yeah, I just spent a fair amount of time trying to find this
         | guy's twitter account and got nothing ...
         | 
         | If anyone finds it, please share.
        
         | 1-6 wrote:
         | I think it only makes Japan a hotbed for interesting and new
         | ideas. Don't start it up in Silicon Valley when you can get
         | free press by doing it in Japan instead!
        
         | manbash wrote:
         | It doesn't mean that it's nonexistent. The news story is about
         | one company that provided fake sources for a past article.
         | 
         | Rent-a-friend/family in Japan seems like a real thing.
        
       | ssivark wrote:
       | Without assuming too much about the veracity of this story, it
       | still addresses a fundamental human need.
       | 
       | Humans, more than any other animals live in an imagined reality.
       | Once food & shelter are taken care of, one's dependence on nature
       | (physical reality) has been disintermediated. This, our direct
       | experience is primarily imagined abstract reality
       | (friends/family, employment, society, the act of
       | purchasing/consuming, etc).
       | 
       | Especially if one gets socially isolated in this world, it's very
       | easy to decouple one's notion of reality from others in subtle
       | ways. To be seen, have one's perspective acknowledged and to be
       | sincerely "touched" by another person (in a deeper metaphorical
       | sense) is therefore one of the strongest human needs.
       | 
       | On the path to so thoroughly servicing humankind's physical
       | needs, we've created a quandary that's increasingly endemic with
       | waves of economic development.
        
       | technofiend wrote:
       | Once again Mike Judge accurately predicts the future: _" Michael?
       | I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing and it was everything
       | that I thought it could be."_ - Peter Gibbons, Office Space
       | (1999).
        
         | PrefixKitten wrote:
         | Now if only I could make money doing two chicks at the same
         | time..
        
           | kridsdale1 wrote:
           | I think it costs about a million dollars to get two chicks at
           | the same time
        
           | cferr wrote:
           | I imagine if you had a million bucks you could set something
           | like that up.
        
       | golemiprague wrote:
       | My psychologist did the same, he just charged more.
        
       | scott_s wrote:
       | This reminds me of one of the most insightful quotes about
       | loneliness and grief I read in one of the most insightful essays
       | on loss and grief:
       | 
       |  _I was reminded of our friend Liz's insight after she lost her
       | husband to melanoma. She told me she had plenty of people to do
       | things with, but nobody to do nothing with._
       | 
       | From "The Day I Started Lying to Ruth" by Peter B. Bach,
       | https://nymag.com/news/features/cancer-peter-bach-2014-5/
        
       | medium_burrito wrote:
       | Isn't this part of the plot in Shockwave Rider?
        
       | mariodiana wrote:
       | So, he's basically renting himself out as a less affectionate,
       | zero maintenance support dog. Brilliant!
        
         | m3kw9 wrote:
         | If a dog can talk
        
       | zappo2938 wrote:
       | Sometimes we say the most when we say the least
        
       | Blikkentrekker wrote:
       | The title reminds me of the Japanese strip _Rent-a-Girlfriend_ ,
       | and how much it, and several similar ideas coming from Japan seem
       | to express how lonely many of it's citizens might be feeling.
       | 
       | Japanese commerce seems to have found a rather big market into
       | treating loneliness. From the existence of Host Clubs, bars where
       | the menu is not only food, but a good conversation with one's
       | designated "host" as well, to cafes where the waiter plays a role
       | of one's doting younger sister. Of course, it is probably also
       | indicated by the infamously declining birth rate.
       | 
       |  _Rent-a-Girlfriend_ is a bizarre thing to read, if one not
       | understand it 's target audience. It's a new dimension to _The 40
       | Year Old Virgin_ , with the exception that the protagonist is
       | supposed to be relatable to the audience -- he's unbelievably
       | socially awkward and not in a way that derives humor from it, but
       | is meant to invoke a sense of relatability and it essentially
       | seems to exist as a way to vicariously cope with loneliness, as
       | is surprisingly common in Japanese fiction.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | > he's unbelievably socially awkward and not in a way that
         | derives humor from it, but is meant to invoke a sense of
         | relatability
         | 
         | Media does usually exaggerate the traits they're attempting to
         | highlight, whether it's bravery or social anxiety. Most people,
         | even if they are popular and charismatic, still feel awkward
         | and anxious sometimes. As much as we talk about how different
         | people are, in some ways we're all the same.
        
           | Blikkentrekker wrote:
           | Yes, but it's still remarkable how common in Japanese fiction
           | the socially awkward, uncomfortable protagonist, meant to be
           | relatable to the audience is.
           | 
           | The protagonist of _The 40 Year old Virgin_ is unique for it,
           | and the series is not meant for 40 year old virgins.
           | 
           | There is a surprisingly high amount of fiction from Japan
           | that follows a formula similar to this:
           | 
           | - The protagonist is socially awkward and nervous, but
           | otherwise has no actual opinions or character traits
           | 
           | - The protagonist starts the story rather lonely
           | 
           | - The protagonist fairly quickly finds friends, lovers,
           | family, who are very devoted to him
           | 
           | - Bonus points for the protagonist being transported to a
           | parallel universe to escape the dreads of social pressure of
           | Japanese office worker life completely -- this specific plot
           | device is oddly common.
           | 
           | It feels as if one play a first person corridor shooter with
           | a silent protagonist, but it's a book or television series:
           | the protagonist is dragged along with the plot but somehow
           | does not influence it and barely speaks or has opinions: the
           | point is for the reader to mentally replace the protagonist
           | with himself, and experience the story from his own
           | perspective, so he can feel less lonely, just as such video
           | games have a big element of making the player feel like an
           | action hero, but the power phantasy sold here is simply "no
           | longer being lonely".
           | 
           | It's really an oddly big market for such a seemingly quite
           | specific thing. _Rent-a-Girlfriend_ consistently ranks within
           | the top 25 of strip volume sales in Japan, and it 's plot is
           | really little more than "Lonely, socially awkward young adult
           | is now less lonely.".
        
             | bserge wrote:
             | I assume that's the source for the TV series? I couldn't
             | get past the 6th episode... it's just bad. And I watch a
             | lot of trash haha
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | Yes, the strip was popular enough to receive t.v. series
               | adaptation.
               | 
               | I quit the strip in what must be around the same events
               | of the story as the sixth episode -- I could not bare
               | with how awkward the protagonist was, and how everyone
               | either really liked him or outright fell in love with him
               | despite being a nervous train wreck who constantly
               | embarrasses himself.
               | 
               | I'm not sure it's "bad"; it's as said quite popular and
               | it's probably very good at what it attempts to do and
               | what I consider flaws are probably features.
        
         | zanny wrote:
         | I eat this stuff up as a constantly lonely person, not in the
         | "I wish I had a boyfriend" sense, in the "theres nobody to talk
         | to, ever" sense. Like you get up, you work, you consume
         | entertainment, maybe you go on HN or Reddit or Twitter or
         | whatever and you throw words out that other people filter
         | through like junk food, maybe you even go so far to join a fan
         | community for something for a week or two and talk about it a
         | bit and then... move on, because none of this is building a
         | meaningful relationship with another human being at all. Its
         | just consumptive, but even trying to be creative nobody has the
         | time or interest to see whatever "ideas you have". Everyone is
         | stuck in their own silos of consumption at this point and it
         | leaves a lot of us just stuck on an isolated island by
         | themselves.
         | 
         | It doesn't hurt that from this position almost anyone you would
         | find to interact with is in some way predatory. Like anyone who
         | didn't fail at socializing has their closed off peer group they
         | spend their time with by now. The doors closed and all that is
         | left is this perpetual limbo of fluctuating between distracting
         | from the sadness and being overwhelmed by it. In the same way
         | corporate social media, entertainment, and trying to bond with
         | others over that or the total inability to form creative bonds
         | with others to actually make stuff are all vacuous and
         | unfulfilling. In the same vein paying someone to keep you
         | company ultimately cannot fill that missing piece in a person
         | that wants others to just _want them to be there for
         | themselves_. You can 't commodify that.
         | 
         | So uh, I can _highly_ relate to what the Japanese are going
         | through with how even more regimented and structured their
         | society is pressed upon them as being. Its stifling enough in
         | the US culture of hyper-consumerism. It seems like a stifling
         | nightmare over there. Welcome to the NHK is a great anime on
         | this subject if anyone is interested in getting into a, to be
         | fair romanticized, version of these kinds of experiences. It
         | touches well on the psychological hole you get yourself in
         | though.
         | 
         | Its kind of absurdist to think about, how capitalism is trying
         | to respond to the endemic loneliness that if you really get
         | into it can kind of be attributed to the way modern life is
         | commodified and made competitive and consumptive. People are
         | lonely because nobody has the time, patience, or desire left to
         | be communal. At least not comprehensively for those of us on
         | the social fringes. But there is no community because it isn't
         | economically efficient to capital for one to exist. It gets
         | eaten away to be replaced with more consumption for more profit
         | and its leaving growing segments of society hollow husks. So
         | you end up with rent a girlfriends and companionship bars
         | instead of actual friends.
        
           | Blikkentrekker wrote:
           | > _I eat this stuff up as a constantly lonely person, not in
           | the "I wish I had a boyfriend" sense, in the "theres nobody
           | to talk to, ever" sense._
           | 
           | Yes, a great deal of it is indeed nonromantic.
           | 
           |  _Welcome to the N.H.K._ is what I would consider a different
           | beast from _Rent-a-Girlfriend_ what I 've seen about it,
           | though I haven't read it, and indeed more so describes your
           | version of escapism from excessive capitalism and social and
           | financial duties, whereas _R.a.G._ seems to mostly be
           | escapism from loneliness by lack of social aptitude.
        
       | hitekker wrote:
       | > Morimoto receives words of gratitude from customers who state
       | that "the act of doing nothing serves as support." However, he
       | remains nonchalant about the praise, saying, "I'm not doing it
       | for that purpose, so my only response is, 'Oh, really?'" He also
       | doesn't want his work to be seen as an act of charity. > "I'm not
       | a friend or an acquaintance. I'm free of the bothersome things
       | that accompany relationships, but can ease people's sense of
       | loneliness. Maybe it's something like that for me," Morimoto told
       | the Mainichi Shimbun.
       | 
       | People can derive support from Morimoto, but he doesn't _intend_
       | to provide them that support. That lack of intention makes his
       | service simple and allows people to get what they want from him.
       | 
       | How genuine.
        
         | quesera wrote:
         | This reminds me of a Haruki Murakami story.
         | 
         | Not any _specific_ Haruki Murakami story, but basically all
         | Haruki Murakami stories ever.
         | 
         | I'm not sophisticated enough to know how much of this imagery
         | is manufactured for export, but my gaijin self does enjoy it.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | andygcook wrote:
       | Listening intently without injecting criticism, condemnation, or
       | your own complaints/opinions is extremely difficult. In fact,
       | that skill is one of the major tenants of the timeless classic,
       | How to Win Friends and Influence People. This quote is straight
       | from the book:
       | 
       | "Any fool can criticize, complain, and condemn--and most fools
       | do. But it takes character and self-control to be understanding
       | and forgiving."
       | 
       | With isolation becoming a major issue during the pandemic, I'm
       | not surprised people want to hire someone with these skills to
       | just listen to their ideas and stories.
        
         | bitbuilder wrote:
         | >With isolation becoming a major issue during the pandemic, I'm
         | not surprised people want to hire someone with these skills to
         | just listen to their ideas and stories.
         | 
         | I think you make a great point, but at the same time it feels
         | like you're also describing conventional talk therapy. And if
         | you have good insurance, it's free. If you don't, it still
         | doesn't break the bank.
         | 
         | I frequently joke with my friends that I'm only paying for a
         | therapist to have someone to vent to. I pay them, and they
         | listen my bullshit without judging me. (There's more to it than
         | that of course, but it's a lighthearted way to suggest therapy
         | to someone you feel could benefit.)
         | 
         | I've even found myself rambling about side project ideas with
         | my therapist, which was surprisingly helpful when they pushed
         | back against the inevitable "but it's a stupid idea of course,
         | so I probably wont do anything with it."
        
           | bitcoinmoney wrote:
           | What's the hourly?
        
           | andygcook wrote:
           | Agreed with you. When I read the article, the last parts of
           | the quotes below stood out to me that he's basically acting
           | as a stand-in for a licensed therapist:
           | 
           | "At times he will participate in a gaming session to make up
           | numbers, turn up to send off people who are moving away,
           | accompany those filing for divorce, or listen to health care
           | workers who have become mentally unwell due to their
           | exhausting work."
           | 
           | Also, "She asked him to stay beside her when meeting a man
           | for the first time, and also had him listen to her talk about
           | her views on love, which she could not divulge to her
           | friends..."
           | 
           | I've seen a therapist off and on over the years and can't
           | recommend it enough. I also found it pretty helpful as a
           | startup founder/CEO for pushing back on my
           | assumptions/biases.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | peter_retief wrote:
       | I would be quite good at that, anyone want to rent me to do
       | nothing?
        
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