[HN Gopher] Fitbit is now officially part of Google
___________________________________________________________________
Fitbit is now officially part of Google
Author : blinky88
Score : 151 points
Date : 2021-01-14 14:14 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.fitbit.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.fitbit.com)
| karimtr wrote:
| Anyone stopped using Fitbit as a result of this?
| _hao wrote:
| The moment I read the news of the acquisition I took off my
| Fitbit Charge HR2 (it was my second Fitbit device) and I
| deleted my Fitbit account. I have no illusions this will change
| anything and I did it entirely on principle.
| overscore wrote:
| I have - moved to an Apple watch.
| InitialLastName wrote:
| I didn't stop using it, but I made a different decision about
| what watch to purchase because of it, because a) divesting my
| health data from Google's vacuum seemed wise and b) I no longer
| trust Google to support hardware/services long term.
| dx87 wrote:
| My wife switched over to a Garmin fitness tracker. She'd been
| having technical issues with her old Fitbit anyway, but the
| Google acquisition made it so she didn't even consider a new
| Fitbit as a replacement.
| petercooper wrote:
| Not yet, but it looks like I will. I had no idea of the
| acquisition till this post. A shame because I think the Fitbit
| is fantastic and my current device is years old.
| tristor wrote:
| I switched to an Apple Watch last year when I got one for my
| mom because of the fall detection, so that I could know how to
| use it and support her. The rest of my family still has Fitbits
| and I still prefer Fitbit for what it does (and the battery
| life). That said, in the wake of this announcement two people
| just got an Apple Watch ordered as an upcoming birthday gift
| because I don't think having Fitbits is a good idea anymore.
|
| Google is not a company that respects their users. It's that
| simple. Apple doesn't respect developers, but it does respect
| users. Google respects neither. I'd say the current situation
| in tech is not especially positive for users generally, but
| having a product tied to Google, Facebook, or Amazon would be
| your worst case scenario, and I'm actively trying to excise
| these products from my life.
| oops wrote:
| I did and I also deleted my account and data.
|
| I'll probably get an Apple Watch but I'd prefer something eink
| and "dumber" with just clock, heartrate, steps, stairs and GPS,
| no accounts and no forced uploading to their servers would be
| ideal.
|
| I love the FitBit device though. If there's some opensource way
| to keep using it without Google being involved I'll probably
| try that.
| amateurdev wrote:
| I switched to a Garmin Instinct a few months ago. My Charge 2
| died and I wanted something with GPS and decent battery life.
| I charge my watch every 10ish days (I pair it with my phone
| only after an activity to see the details, not otherwise). I
| personally find it great that it has a rugged screen with
| buttons instead of fancier things like a touchscreen, payment
| options etc.
| sitkack wrote:
| It would be possible to DIY this, it might be clunkier than
| most would expect and have worse battery life.
|
| *edit, found this eval kit by maxim
|
| https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/maxim-
| integrated/...
|
| Kinda expensive and not very open for an eval kit. The only
| somewhat difficult part is implementing the pulse oximetry
| signal chain and analysis software. Everything else is basic
| integration.
| alfongj wrote:
| I love my Fitbit hardware but loathe their apps. After 5 years or
| so, they still suck at data synchronization.
|
| I hope Google fixes this
| koiz wrote:
| Fitbit has made some solid devices but seriously lacks in the
| software area. Finding/Installing apps on your versa is as bad as
| it was on my palm pilot.
| scohesc wrote:
| I guess it's time to de-activate my FitBit account. It was nice
| while it lasted. I wish companies wouldn't fall prey to Google
| money on principle, but that money is oh so good...
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| I triggered account deletion a couple weeks ago when the EU
| announced their approval. With the 7 day deletion timer,
| hopefully my account was completely terminated prior to Google
| getting their hands on it.
| Grazester wrote:
| I wonder how long Fitbit would have been able to survive on it
| own. Something tells me not very long.
| post_break wrote:
| Whenever I think of Fitbit I think of Pebble and get sad. I wish
| there was a Pebble replacement.
| josefresco wrote:
| If you liked Pebble, you'll probably be excited about Watchy:
| https://watchy.sqfmi.com
| iamcreasy wrote:
| Also, how about PineTime? https://www.pine64.org/pinetime/
| wavefunction wrote:
| My mom got me a fitbit for Christmas and I think I'll return it
| unopened now. I've thought about warning her about this new
| relationship with Google but she's elderly, it's probably not an
| issue she cares as much about and I'm the one who introduced her
| to fitbits in the first place.
| tomComb wrote:
| I'm sure the sentiment here will be very much against this
| acquisition, but keep in mind that Fitbit was getting killed and
| would likely have gone out of business without this. It is tough
| for a company like Fitbit to compete with Apple & Samsung.
|
| This should lead to more competition by making it possible for
| Fitbit to compete with Apple. If it doesn't then the acquisition
| was a failure for Google anyway - Fitbit's current market share
| is not acceptable for a company like Google.
| Dig1t wrote:
| The reason why it's difficult for them to compete with Apple
| and Samsung isn't readily apparent to me. There still seems to
| be a large hole in the smartwatch market for a GOOD Android-
| compatible smartwatch. There are a lot of options, but, to me,
| none of them are as polished or feature-heavy as the Apple
| Watch. It doesn't seem that one of these companies would need
| access to any special internal APIs or anything to be
| competitive, so I don't see what Google could add other than
| lots of money and SWE hours.
|
| If Google wants to compete in this space they should have been
| forced to build it themselves. IMO letting Fitbit die would
| have been better for users privacy-wise.
| tomComb wrote:
| I'm a long time Fitbit user and I think their products are
| great. From that perspective I'm just happy that they will
| survive.
|
| > so I don't see what Google could add other than lots of
| money and SWE hours
|
| That matters.
|
| > IMO letting Fitbit die would have been better for users
| privacy-wise.
|
| Have you seen what some companies do when they are on the
| brink of insolvency? They start firing engineers, best
| practices lapse, and they start monetizing everything.
|
| And have you seen the EU data privacy conditions?
|
| And finally, of the companies that could have bought them,
| which has a better record of keeping their users' data
| private then Google?
|
| But also, as a Fitbit user, if I wanted all my data deleted I
| could do that, but I absolutely do not. I want it kept
| private, supported, and crunched by a company like Google to
| our mutual advantage.
| breck wrote:
| Fellow long time FitBit user and agree with everything you
| said.
|
| Furthermore, I pay for FitBit Premium and would strongly
| encourage Google to always keep FitBit a paid
| product/service and never monetize it via ads.
|
| I don't have any expertise in this area, but my hunch from
| what I saw with Apple vs WhatsApp, is that in the long run
| sticking with paid products and not switching to Ads is
| better for success. Also, likely a lot harder to build up a
| base of paying users and if you throw that away would be a
| colossal mistake.
|
| Anyway, I'm not a business expert but am a passionate
| FitBit user and very happy about this acquisition because
| just like you I was worried for their survival.
| IgorPartola wrote:
| Again, Apple has a much better track record than Google
| when it comes to privacy. I can't believe I'm defending
| them here, but honestly they've been the only tech giant
| that hasn't sold out every bit of your personal info they
| had to make a quick buck. I suppose Netflix might be the
| other one but (a) I don't know for a fact and (b) they
| aren't exactly the fitness brand.
| snowwolf wrote:
| The killer feature for me which lead me to me switching away
| was Fitbit Pay. They just don't have the take up by banks
| that the competition (Apple and Samsung) have. Maybe that
| would have changed, but if they integrate Google Pay instead,
| I may switch back.
| JshWright wrote:
| I much prefer contactless payment with my phone anyway. I
| usually find it very awkward trying to position my wrist
| near the NFC reader on the terminal.
| thenewwazoo wrote:
| > There still seems to be a large hole in the smartwatch
| market for a GOOD Android-compatible smartwatch.
|
| In order for there to be a market, both sides have to exist:
| sellers and _buyers_. I 'm not convinced Android users have
| the appetite for multi-hundred-dollar accessories the same
| way Apple users do, and given Apple's engineering skill and
| vertical integration, nobody is going to sell a smartwatch
| that's as good for less.
| RHSeeger wrote:
| What about the spot it started out in? A watch that keeps
| track of some vital signs. I don't want an Android-compatible
| smartwatch. I don't want a smartwatch at all. I want a simple
| "health" device.
|
| I got a new fitbit for Christmas because I couldn't even
| initialize it without installing their app on my smartphone.
| I don't want their app on my phone. I don't want it to report
| all my info to their servers. I don't want it to have access
| to my gps location, which is might be reporting in. My old
| fitbit doesn't need any of that at all, and I don't see the
| need for a new one (that would meet my needs) to, either.
| Dig1t wrote:
| I agree with you here, a simple health tracker is awesome.
| But also it seems to me that Google has a massive incentive
| to get as much data about you as possible. Which means
| releasing devices that collect as much biometric (and
| location) based data as possible, and setting defaults
| (just like Maps location history being turned on by
| default) that will automatically send all of this to Google
| servers. And as usual with Google, the vast majority will
| probably be sending their health data to Google
| unwittingly.
| nxc18 wrote:
| Unpopular opinion here, but I think the Fitbit versa (from
| 2018) was/is better than Apple Watch (latest) in significant
| ways, even when paired with iPhone.
|
| I replaced my versa with Apple Watch when the versa died. I
| don't necessarily regret it, but it didn't feel like an
| upgrade and came with significant downsides.
|
| In particular, Fitbit gives far more control over
| notifications, especially for built-in apps like messages.
| Fitbit makes media controls easily accessible - on Apple
| Watch, they're always moving and hard to get back to
| especially during a workout. My main use case is skipping
| podcast commercials, so not being able to do that quickly is
| a problem.
|
| Battery life was much better on the versa. It also charged
| faster, so it would almost always be done charging after a
| shower, Apple Watch only sometimes is.
|
| Tldr there is definitely room to deliver a better product
| than Apple's. Whether or not Google is capable of doing that
| is a different question that I won't address.
| JshWright wrote:
| I love my Versa 3. I charge it for ~20 minutes every couple
| days, and I've literally never seen it below 50%.
| dalbasal wrote:
| Does this count as more competition though?
|
| It may provide simple price competition, but I don't think
| price competition is a main reason for the anti-monopoly
| sentiment you are referring to. This is more about
| centralisation/decentralisation, data aggregation.
| j0ba wrote:
| > Fitbit was getting killed and would likely have gone out of
| business
|
| If this is a reason for acquisition, then why wouldn't G*gle
| wait until they were "killed" so they could come in and buy
| their business for pennies on the dollar?
|
| We're fast approaching a dystopian Snow Crash world of all-
| powerful corporations, and you people are cheering it along.
|
| How can these both be true?
|
| - it's bad all US legacy media is owned by 5 corporations. -
| it's good for FB, Apple, Amazon and to buy up all adjacent
| business.
|
| I don't see how sharing data is a good argument for unchecked
| consolidation of power. I'm pretty sure Fitbit could export an
| open standard data format, and Google could consume one. But I
| guess rich people wouldn't be able to get _even richer_ if they
| did that.
| klmadfejno wrote:
| My favorite part of snow crash was the corporate mergers with
| public entities like the library of congress. That one's
| probably safe for now, but I wonder if we'll see corporate
| mergers with small local governments when they start to
| default on their debts.
| cratermoon wrote:
| https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/citizen-
| coup...
|
| "Imagine there was no such thing as a library, and that
| members of the current neoliberal policy consensus were to
| sit down today and invent it. They might create complicated
| tax expenditures to subsidize the poor purchasing and
| reselling books, like the wage support of the earned income
| tax credit. They might require people to rent books from
| approved private libraries, with penalties for those who
| don't and vouchers for those who can't afford it, like the
| individual mandate in the latest expansion of health care.
| They might come up with a program where they take on
| liability for books that go missing from private libraries
| and thereby boost profits for lenders themselves, like
| federally backed private student loans. Or maybe they'd
| create means-tested libraries only accessible to the poor,
| with a requirement that patrons document how impoverished
| they are month after month to keep their library card.
| Maybe they'd exempt the cost of private library cards from
| payroll taxes, or let anything calling itself a library pay
| nothing in taxes."
| Turbots wrote:
| I could already sync up my fitbit with Google Fit, so this
| already existed. Their argument is moot, as you suspected
| thatguy0900 wrote:
| >If this is a reason for acquisition, then why wouldn't G*gle
| wait until they were "killed" so they could come in and buy
| their business for pennies on the dollar?
|
| Because what Google wants to buy is their marketshare and
| existing userbase. I very much doubt fitbit has any tech or
| products google couldn't make themselves in a few months. The
| longer fitbit sucks compared to their competition the lower
| that becomes.
| mtgx wrote:
| > Because what Google wants to buy is their marketshare and
| existing userbase
|
| And we should care, why? If anything we should want Google
| to build its own competitor.
| IgorPartola wrote:
| Hahaha I literally laughed out loud at this. Google making
| products. Have you seen how they make products? They have
| killed more physical products than they have delivered.
| They discontinue them more frequently than an average
| person throws out a napkin. Their first gen products are
| usually overpriced trash (Google Glass? Nexus Q?). If
| Google could pump out electronics with the speed and
| quality of someone like Anker or Amazon they'd be buying
| half of Europe for cash right now. I don't pretend to know
| why they can't but empirical evidence shows that it takes
| them several years and at least a product generation to put
| out something useful. For them to put out a fitness tracker
| or a smart watch in a few months that would be remotely
| competitive with the Apple Watch is just not in the cards.
| halfdan wrote:
| This, and they want to hire the talent that built the
| product. If Fitbit were already a sinking ship for too long
| most senior folks would have left.
| at-fates-hands wrote:
| Great point.
|
| Hard to continue developing a product when the most
| talented people in the company have gone elsewhere
| already. They need the human capital in order to make
| sure it stays afloat and they get the requisite knowledge
| transfer.
|
| Then its anybody's guess what will happen. Google's track
| record of buying technology and then doing something
| better with it is not encouraging at all.
| ohgodplsno wrote:
| > very much doubt fitbit has any tech or products google
| couldn't make themselves in a few months.
|
| Considering how absolutely dreadful Google's hardware
| (pixel line, pixel watch) is nowadays, and how unfinished
| all of their software is, no, Google would not be able to
| make any of that in a few months.
| welder wrote:
| > This should lead to more competition by making it possible
| for Fitbit to compete with Apple.
|
| Fitness trackers are too basic. I can't wait to see if the
| Oneplus smart watch is any good.
| https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/22/22196180/oneplus-smartwa...
| m00x wrote:
| I have a Fitbit and I love this acquisition. I want to be able
| to put my fitness data in the rest of the Google ecosystem. The
| more data Google has on me, the more use I get out of Google's
| tools.
|
| I really don't care that it has tons of data on me, Google has
| been super responsible of my data and its uses. The risk/reward
| is 100% worth.
| judge2020 wrote:
| The assurance that it's not going to be used for Ads is the
| only thing that makes this acceptable. Instead of it being on
| some random fitbit server on someone's Cloud, it'll be held
| securely on Google servers.
| bhk wrote:
| Are you sure about that?
|
| If you click through to the EU site
|
| https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20
| _...
|
| and read "Google's Commitment" on ads:
|
| > Google will not use for Google Ads the health and
| wellness data collected from wrist-worn wearable devices
| and other Fitbit devices of users in the EEA, including
| search advertising, display advertising, and advertising
| intermediation products. This refers also to data collected
| via sensors (including GPS) as well as manually inserted
| data.
|
| So this only covers European Economic Area, and it only
| covers Google Ads.
| eins1234 wrote:
| Really though, how long do we expect that arrangement to
| last? The Facebook WhatsApp thing makes it pretty clear to
| me that they can afford to walk back on that arrangement as
| soon as they feel they can afford to take the PR hit. For
| something with as small of a market share as Fitbit, I
| suspect that won't take very long at all.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| Google/Fitbit has a legally-binding commitment for ten
| years.
|
| However, there are probably ways they can leap around
| that. For instance, new devices and a new platform, using
| the Fitbit talent and technology, but marketed as a new
| thing, could probably be used for advertising. Then they
| just need to get everyone over to their new health
| platform.
|
| I also think a ten year commitment is a very poor
| concession for the EU to have extracted: It just means
| they're punting off society being harmed a while. For a
| company that will likely be around in 100 years or more,
| IBM-style, that's not a good concession.
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| Lol, I totally agree. I actually believe that they care a lot
| about protecting my data -- more than any other data
| caretaker. Probably because if they abuse our data it would
| be financially costly. But that's the beautiful thing about
| capitalism...
| IgorPartola wrote:
| Apple has entered the chat. I am sure you've heard the
| argument before: Google is an advertising company. Using
| your data to sell you products is why they have your data.
| The more they can get, the higher their profits.
|
| Apple is a hardware company. They don't want your data and
| store it begrudgingly because to them it's nothing but
| liability. Whenever they can, they will encrypt your data
| in a way they can't access in order to not be liable. Their
| devices are the product, not you.
|
| Based on the above, which company would you trust more?
| gman83 wrote:
| Based on what you wrote I would say Google, because they
| have so much more to lose. That data is really really
| valuable to them, whereas to Apple it isn't really.
| IgorPartola wrote:
| The point is that it's not their data and they shouldn't
| have it in the first place. It's your data. I mean do
| what you want, but I believe your logic here is based on
| fundamentally incorrect initial assumptions.
| confiq wrote:
| exactly this ^! remember thefappening? Imagine what
| shitstorm would be if that would happen to google...
| IgorPartola wrote:
| The point isn't which protects your data better from
| outside breaches (though I would argue Apple does a
| better job of protecting its phones), but how they use
| your data and who they can expose it to. Apple provides
| storage. Google sifts through your data to help them
| direct you towards products from which they can get
| kickbacks. It's not some external entity that you have to
| worry about. It's the company to whom you send all your
| data. And this isn't conjecture. The only reason Google
| collects all that data is so they can advertise to you
| better. The only question is whether you trust that
| they'll keep that data usage on the right side of your
| personal ethical line in the sand. I don't think Google
| would sell your dick pics to a third party to make a
| quick buck. But I also wouldn't put it past them to use
| them to figure out what kind of porn you like and help
| sex toy manufacturers to target you in their ads.
| echelon wrote:
| Neither.
|
| Apple is attempting to steal the concept of computing and
| turn it into a protected, arcane art.
|
| You can't even run your own software on a device you own.
| That's a sure sign of a company that loves you and has
| your best interests at heart.
|
| Apple is just as cutthroat as any. They only want your
| money.
| IgorPartola wrote:
| Last I checked your Google Home wasn't exactly open
| either :)
|
| They are both cutthroat but Apple specifically has taken
| a stance on privacy.
| gcblkjaidfj wrote:
| that's some next level abusive relationship whitewashing.
|
| "google/apple data control monopolies are killing products i
| like. But that is fine because that makes those products
| cheap for google/apple and i love them."
| gretch wrote:
| The above user is only talking about their personal desires
| and opinions about Google. They don't speak on behalf of
| anyone else and don't pass judgement if G is 'good' or
| 'bad' for society as a whole.
|
| You are claiming that their thoughts are only the result of
| abusive conditioning.
|
| IMO, that's an extremely arrogant position - "oh, if you
| disagree with me, it must be because you are not smart
| enough to actually think for yourself"
| bootlooped wrote:
| I have an Android phone and use multiple fitness
| apps/services. Google Fit would be the natural place for me
| to aggregate all that, so I'm sold on the utility of that.
| Sadly I think it's at risk of being Google abandonware. I
| don't recall them ever having added functionality, but I
| recall at least one time functionality disappeared (they
| removed the website where you could view your data). The app
| seemed to keep getting simplified over time.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| No company with surveillance capitalism as their business
| model should be allowed access to health data from an
| acquired company without the user explicitly opting in.
|
| However, I sincerely doubt Fitbit would have been worth
| anywhere near as much under those conditions.
| at-fates-hands wrote:
| This is the moral razors edge companies have to walk on
| nowadays.
|
| Do they sell their company out and get rich, or do they
| stick to their principles and safeguard their users data?
|
| I don't have the right answer. What I do know is when
| you're facing down a multi-million dollar payout,
| principles tend to get tossed out the window.
| eins1234 wrote:
| I read this honestly expecting a /s at the end.
|
| If you told me this was a failed attempt at obvious sarcasm
| now, I'd totally still believe you.
| tejohnso wrote:
| Expected /s as well, but at home I often hear the "I don't
| work for the CIA" argument against privacy paranoia so I'm
| not surprised.
| mav3rick wrote:
| What has Google done with your data ? Even I was expecting
| a /s at the end of your comment.
| mulletbum wrote:
| isn't it more "what have they done" with your data that
| makes you think this needs to be /s?
| yomly wrote:
| It reads like sarcasm but it's more a sign that our views
| do not leak out of our echo chamber.
|
| I have a friend who works for the government and laments at
| how much red tape there is to acquire or link any dataset
| and wishes for more data acquisition.
|
| To be fair, her use cases were sincerely benign - being
| able to target people who qualify for more welfare/govt
| assistance, and being able to make the govt website more
| helpful/discoverable for support.
|
| Though she definitely subscribes to her data being used for
| helpful purposes from bigtech
| leokennis wrote:
| But that's the thing. I work for a bank. If I had
| unlimited access to all transaction data without needing
| to request elevated access and jumping some more hoops,
| it would greatly speed up my daily work.
|
| But...it would also greatly increase the damage any
| hacker could do.
|
| Same applies to Google. It's super convenient to have
| everything "on Google". Until the day Google is
| exposed/hacked/turns evil. Then it's a disaster.
|
| Hoping the above won't happen is not a strategy but a
| gamble.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| > Until the day Google [...] turns evil
|
| You mean this hasn't already happened?
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| > I want to be able to put my fitness data in the rest of the
| Google ecosystem. The more data Google has on me, the more
| use I get out of Google's tools.
|
| It's good to be able to integrate that information. It's bad
| to be forced to let Google integrate that information. I
| dislike it because Google isn't known for letting users
| choose.
| xnx wrote:
| I'm replying in agreement that this is also my opinion.
| Google could do bad things with my data in the future, but,
| to date, there is no company I trust more. Contrary to a very
| vocal crowd on HN, rankings of most loved brands show that
| many people like Google https://morningconsult.com/most-
| loved-brands-2020/
| at-fates-hands wrote:
| Liking a company != trusting a company with your data.
| xenihn wrote:
| I would argue there _is_ a correlation between liking and
| trusting. Not just data specifically, but overall trust.
| I 'd think data would fall under the umbrella.
| mlester wrote:
| Hopefully this means a youtube music app for the versa watches.
| valarauko wrote:
| ... perhaps a new Google chat app?
| stuaxo wrote:
| In 3 years time all the customers can look forward to it being
| shut down.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| I have a Fitbit 3 that is awful for synching with my iPhone. Not
| sure if it's just me or the SW is a pile of pooh. I'm not really
| sure if this change will help Fitbit or me.
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| I was about to buy a new fitbit as my current one is basically
| dead after 4 years. But the way Google handles things they buy
| doesn't inspire confidence. I guess I'll investigate others and
| probably end up with an Apple Watch.
| breck wrote:
| I have the Versa 2 and absolutely love it. Just gave the Apple
| Watch another spin but returned it. If you want an iPad on your
| wrist that's the way to go. If you just want health features
| I'd recommend the FitBits.
|
| Will probably upgrade to the Versa 3 or Sense, but the 2 is
| just awesome. I've also had the Charge 2, Charge, Ionic,
| Microsoft Band 2, and Microsoft Band 1. Versa 2 was a major
| leap.
|
| Finally, I still consider these things early adopter territory,
| but in 10 years I think everyone and their dog will be wearing
| one.
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| That is the thing, FitBit does exactly what I need. Tho
| considering my last one lasted me 4 years, even if I get a
| new one and Google destroy everything I'll still have 3-4
| years of usage so it might be worth still buying a new
| FitBit.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| I'm waiting for PineTime, personally. My significant other just
| switched from a Fitbit Ionic to an Apple Watch SE and
| definitely likes the upgrade.
|
| Battery life is your biggest loss if you leave Fitbit, almost
| nobody was making smartwatches as battery efficient.
| PurpleFoxy wrote:
| I'm not sure the pine time will be powerful enough to
| actually use. Iirc it has a 64mhz cpu and 3.5mb storage
| space. It looks like more of a toy for developers than
| something you would use normally.
|
| The mi band might suit your needs better.
| erinnh wrote:
| How long do they last?
|
| Personally, Ive been using Garmin smartwatches for a few
| years now and they last about a week, with O2 sat scanner
| enabled over the night. Definitely been happy with them.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| New Fitbits are similar. (Battery life in all devices
| decays over time.)
|
| Your Apple Watch or Google Wear OS will give you a day or
| two.
| miguelrochefort wrote:
| I get 24-36 hours on my Colmi P8 (same hardware as
| PineTime), with step tracking and heart rate monitoring
| turned off.
|
| The PineTime is a huge downgrade from pretty much
| everything on the market. It's only good, at least for now,
| as a platform to prototype on.
| cosmojg wrote:
| RIP Pebble. Their watches lasted over a week on a single
| charge. Fortunately, my Pebble Time Steel is still ticking,
| but it's only a matter of time before it breaks somehow. I
| already cracked the screen. :(
| user-the-name wrote:
| That doesn't sound very impressive, my Fitbit Charge 3
| lasts a week or two easily.
| silicon2401 wrote:
| Same. The Google brand is a kiss of incoming death as far as
| I'm concerned. They were in fact one of the primary motivators
| for my beginning to work on a personal archive last year. I'm
| glad I did, not a few months after I bought some hard drives,
| google photos announced their service changes with no longer
| allowing unlimited storage. I really think they made/buy some
| great products, their management just makes it crazy to me to
| have a dependency on something they own.
| saisundar wrote:
| This will certainly help give Google an advantage if they enter
| into health insurance.
|
| Aplhabet has non trivial stake in Oscar health, and this fitbit
| acquisition plays right into being price health insurance
| policies for users.
| s3r3nity wrote:
| More evidence that Google can't create any good, innovative
| products anymore - they just acquire them.
|
| Can't make good watch hardware OR software? Just buy part of
| Fossil and Fitbit to handle that.
|
| Can't make good smart home devices to compete with Amazon's Ring
| or Simplisafe? Just buy Nest, Revolv, and a huge stake of ADT.
|
| etc. etc.
| missedthecue wrote:
| whats wrong with Google Pixel
| mav3rick wrote:
| Don't worry op won't reply to this.
| s3r3nity wrote:
| Bought out part of Motorola to do this
| Johnyma22 wrote:
| Is Google Pixel the phone or a tablet?
|
| Is Chrome a browser of OS?
| mav3rick wrote:
| iPad Pro - Phone or Tablet ? For fun or for PROfessionals ?
| Airpods - Earbuds or Headphones ?
| mav3rick wrote:
| Lol Amazon's Ring ? Amazon also acquired Ring. Maybe do some
| research before trying to score Internet points.
| s3r3nity wrote:
| LOL maybe they'll see this and hire you, simp
|
| Also, the juxtaposition was meant to highlight the various
| competitors in the space, not necessarily to say that those
| don't also acquire companies to gain share.
| mav3rick wrote:
| More evidence that anything Google does is inherently bad for
| HN.
| ztetranz wrote:
| Maybe Google will be a bit faster with new features. It took
| almost six years and a 544 post thread in their community forum
| to finally provide the ability to use kilojoules instead of
| calories. It's just a multiplication factor like feet to meters
| or pounds to kilograms. https://community.fitbit.com/t5/Feature-
| Suggestions/Option-t...
| Triv888 wrote:
| Google is not better in this regard.
| macspoofing wrote:
| Somehow I _feel_ Google has no real plans for Fitbit and Fitbit
| will just disappear. Google isn 't great at devices.
| csours wrote:
| I understand you, but I love my Pixel series devices. Every
| other one had some compromise that I did not agree with, but on
| the whole they have been good for me.
|
| You may point to other competitive devices that do things
| better, but I think that just shows how hard it is to compete
| in the smartphone business.
| aboringusername wrote:
| One thing that confuses me is why this data needs to be stored
| within the internet at all.
|
| Why can't I have an entirely offline driven system? Data stays
| local, no ability to upload it online at all, and all processing
| is done without ever needing the internet.
|
| That's a key criteria if I ever was thinking of getting a smart
| wearable, I'm not going to generate even more data that can be
| profited from and potentially used against me.
|
| It's increasingly looking like storing data is a huge
| responsibility (although, if it _is_ ever leaked, sadly humans
| don 't tend to see prison time for this crime).
|
| What we need is a clause that says "if this data ever touches the
| internet whether accidental or otherwise the CEO goes straight to
| jail, are you sure about this?".
|
| Sadly, I think society as a whole is just "used" to this by now
| and a second thought is rarely given, disappointing this merger
| was approved, especially when the EU is investigating several
| "anti trusts", why give them even more power?
|
| Oh well, I'll see you fellow HN readers on the next "major data
| leakage from misconfigured MongoDB and nobody is punished"
| thread.
| johnwayne666 wrote:
| It's the reason I got an Apple watch 3 as a sport watch: all
| the other options seemed to want to upload everything online.
| oakpond wrote:
| > if it is ever leaked
|
| or when
| hapticmonkey wrote:
| Apple's health data is all stored offline, unless you have
| iCloud enabled for health data, in which case it's end-to-end
| encrypted and only used so devices can sync. You can choose to
| share certain data for their research programs.
|
| The answer as to why other companies store data online should
| be obvious: There's a business can for having access to that
| data.
| freedomben wrote:
| Arguing for jail, aka literally locking a human being in a
| cage, for any non-violent offense, let-alone getting hacked
| because your employees mad a mistake, is mindblowing to me.
|
| I'm as irritated as you at data leaks from negligence, but
| jail? I thought jail was not supposed to be for "punishment"
| but rather to protect the public from someone too dangerous to
| allow free, and even then it should mainly target
| "rehabilitation."
|
| You're now talking about using it clearly just for punishment
| (which I would argue we do all over the place, totally
| inconsistent with it's stated purpose). This is before we
| discuss whether jail is torture. Even if the "jail" is well
| regulated to prevent thing like violence and sexual abuse, it's
| terrible to lock a person in a cage. There are plenty of
| studies about the effects that has on a person's mind. Then you
| consider that you're soft blackballed from employment (and
| therefore society) when you get a "record" and can't pass a
| background check, and that the positive feedback loop leads to
| a life of poverty, crime, and suffering that is avoidable.
|
| Please consider the significance of what you are arguing for
| here.
| eberkund wrote:
| Are you against jail-time for all non-violent white collar
| crimes or just negligence in the realm of technology
| companies?
|
| Please don't assume that anyone with a different view hasn't
| considered the significance of their position.
| freedomben wrote:
| Yes, I am against jail for non-violent crimes. I'm open to
| modern non-medieval ideas even for violent crimes. I don't
| have the answers there, but I wish there were more people
| caring about this. So far it seems to be only the far left
| (I don't consider that an insult) and anarcho-capitalists,
| but I wish more people that fall into the middle somewhere
| (like myself) would think about this. Usually people don't
| think about stuff that affects strangers all that much
| until it affects them or a loved one. That's a people
| problem in general and I don't know how to solve it either.
| hajile wrote:
| Let's say someone steal a billion dollars through fraud
| and hide it. What should be done? Should they just walk
| free?
|
| There's a difference between non-violent crimes (white
| collar crimes usually) and victimless crimes (possessing
| a small amount of controlled substances).
| HDMI_Cable wrote:
| First things first, they could pay back the $1 billion?
| syshum wrote:
| I am against jail for anyone that is not a danger to
| others, That danger can be Physical or danger to their
| property.
|
| "White Collar" crimes absolutely could entail jail time if
| the offender has proven themselves to be untrustworthy and
| would continue to commit said crimes if allowed to be free
|
| Jail should be used to protect the population from
| offenders, far too often however it is used for many other
| purposes including to punish people for "victimless" crimes
| or for being poor (like the inability to pay parking
| ticket)
| slumdev wrote:
| Is there any deterrent benefit from potential jail time?
|
| Companies with armies of lawyers are pretty good at
| establishing plausible deniability, so the "because your
| employees made a mistake" argument, while you advanced it in
| good faith, is constantly exploited as an excuse.
| freedomben wrote:
| I honestly don't know. I worked with a company once that
| had regulatory burdens. They were young enough that they
| hadn't yet hired the first IT person, let alone a security
| team, so it was just regular devs trying to comply.
| Needless to say when I came in (as a regular dev that
| happens to specialize in security) I waved the red flag and
| pointed out the possible jail time to the executives, and
| they were not concerned, even though the laws explicitly
| lay out that "because your employees made a mistake" was
| unequivocally not an excuse (and this has held up in court
| by the way). I'm being ambiguous intentionally here so I
| can't give details.
|
| But regardless whether there is a deterrent benefit, I
| think the reality is that jails effect non-executives and
| normal people (especially the closer to poverty you get)
| far more than they ever would executives. A much better
| approach IMHO would be to develop alternatives and phase
| out incarceration altogether (or at least as much as
| possible) by rolling them out broadly, would be a better,
| more humane solution.
| Sander3Utile wrote:
| Well in that case the person would be going to jail because
| he can't be trusted with not exposing private information, so
| another form of protection
| aboringusername wrote:
| Jail is used for a lot of "non-violent" crime, such as fraud
| if the judge/court thinks it's warranted. Jun Ying, Equifax's
| previous CIO did 4 months in jail and another did 8 months of
| home confinement.
|
| Handling data is a privilege, not a right, and can come at a
| huge cost. Just look at Parler for example, they weren't even
| stripping EXIF data which depending on how you look at is is
| either great for those involved to be tracked and arrested or
| a terrifying oversight that will lead to huge
| repercussions...
|
| Data can end lives, this has been proven time and again, it's
| just as dangerous as a knife or gun in certain circumstances
| and the crime of having it leaked must have an appropriate
| punishment
| at-fates-hands wrote:
| I use Suunto fitness tracker and all my data is under the
| protections of the company which is located in Finland. Since
| they are a member of the EU, GDPR rules apply to personal data
| retention as well as other privacy data laws they also have.
|
| It may not be much, but I feel a lot more at ease using their
| products than what Fitbit is going to be handing over to
| Google.
| sitkack wrote:
| What really disappointed me about the fitbit was that it
| required it to be tethered to the phone and my account before
| it would function as a pedometer.
|
| It seems broken that I also have to have a phone, app store
| access to get a device to drive the pixels for data it already
| has.
|
| Every piece of hardware that does this is effectively "app
| store locked", your phone is now your software dongle for your
| hardware.
| brlewis wrote:
| See the section "Don't have a mobile device available?" on
| https://www.fitbit.com/setup for desktop apps.
|
| Some functions, like sleep tracking, are too computationally
| intensive to do on a wrist computer.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Such functions can be done on a more powerful mobile
| computer, but that still doesn't justify the requirement
| for having an account/Internet connection available.
| sitkack wrote:
| Thats neat. But the device would only pair and should have
| some sort of functionality out of the box.
| tech234a wrote:
| Side note: the blog still has a Google+ sharing button. (Google+
| shut down nearly two years ago.)
| dkersten wrote:
| Guess I will stop using my old fitbit. I've been trying very hard
| to de-google my life, so them owning fitbit is a deal breaker for
| me.
| ortusdux wrote:
| Has anyone tried out Wyse's fitness band? How are they as a
| company? The prices are the lowest around on their entire lineup
| miguelrochefort wrote:
| I don't know about their fitness band. What I know is that
| Amazon will acquire Wyze within the next 2 years.
| laurent123456 wrote:
| I guess it means that if Google blocks your account due to a
| false positive on an unrelated service, you can no longer use you
| watch.
| aboringusername wrote:
| Which is crazy to me...Google is...
|
| Your photo manager
|
| Your search engine
|
| Your document storage service
|
| Your health monitor
|
| Your contacts list
|
| Your video hosting facility
|
| Your calendar
|
| Your document editor
|
| Your location history
|
| Your music engine
|
| And I have no doubt I'm missing a load here, point being why
| the fuck has the EU not stepped in at this point and said "woah
| buddy, you're a tad too big to be this unregulated".
|
| The EU needs to enforce stricter regulation across all Google
| products, such as making it illegal to "ban" or lock out an
| account by means of an AI facility without human resolution
| within 6 hours or less (6 hours is a maximum, anything above
| incurs an hourly fine).
|
| These _must_ be regulated like a public service, because the
| risk of losing access to an online account can be devastating.
|
| The onus, however, is on YOU to diversify, have redundant email
| addresses (forward+store a copy) so in the event one is RIP you
| are not boned entirely.
| miguelrochefort wrote:
| Not to mention:
|
| Your password manager
|
| Your 2FA authenticator
|
| Your notes manager
|
| Your domain name provider
|
| Your cloud provider
|
| Your browser
|
| Your operating system
|
| Your smart home
|
| Your phone number
|
| Your mobile ISP
|
| Your analytics provider
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| And, should you post too many emojis in a YouTube comment,
| you'll lose access to _all_ of these things.
| Grazester wrote:
| This is my biggest concern, not even the data. Google locks
| your account and your entire life is disrupted!
| miguelrochefort wrote:
| I considered going to China, but decided against because of
| my reliance on Google services.
| colordrops wrote:
| I deleted my account and uninstalled the app a few days ago -
| just in time to prevent google from slurping up my health data.
|
| I purchased a Mi Band 5 for $35 which is a vastly better device
| than fitbit equivalents for a quarter of the price. You can use
| it without data being sent to the cloud if you use the open
| source package GadgetBridge.
| josefresco wrote:
| Also a fan of the Mi Band. I have a Mi Band 2, and just bought
| a Mi Band 5 for a family member. At $35 USD it's a good entry
| device (with mid level features) for those new to fitness
| tracking.
| erinaceousjones wrote:
| There's also "Notify & Fitness for Mi Band" for Android [1]
| which I used, which was ace. Packed full of advanced features
| like ability to change what calorie / basal metabolic rate
| calculations were used, export of the data locally / dropbox,
| export to google fit + strava etc., no dependency on Xiaomi's
| servers. Closed source, though. But appears to be one single
| persons personal project.
|
| Those products are awesome if you want a lower-end fitness
| tracker. Originally I bought a Mi Band 4 because I saw it
| reported itself as a bluetooth HR accessory, meaning you could
| get continuous heart rate on bluetooth if you paired your
| device -- whereas FitBit's protocol was encrypted and
| proprietary. Did some cool stuff with that (a shirt with an LED
| matrix screen that pulsed at the wearers heart rate!)
|
| Wouldn't say the hardware is "vastly better", I found the
| continuous heart rate monitoring to be a bit sluggish -- i.e.
| it averaged out HR over a longer period than the fitbits I've
| had did, so you were less likely to detect the peaks and
| recovery periods during excercise. Otherwise it was much of a
| muchness, but cheaper. I imagine the cheaper HW probably meant
| corners were cut with the sensors and firmware, but being
| hardly the athlete I didn't care outside of heart rate sensing.
|
| [1]
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mc.miband1...
| colordrops wrote:
| Is Notify proprietary or open source? Does it send data to
| the cloud? I couldn't tell based on a quick look and search.
| vanous wrote:
| > I purchased a Mi Band 5 for $35 which is a vastly better
| device than fitbit equivalents for a quarter of the price. You
| can use it without data being sent to the cloud if you use the
| open source package GadgetBridge.
|
| Gadgetbridge is mentioned regularly in these threads, thank
| you! Privacy is one of our main goals. We support quite a few
| bands and watches and the list of devices and features is
| growing. We are also happy for contributing members, so if you
| think that your movement data and notifications should remain
| private and can do some Android development, stop by, we are at
| Codeberg. https://codeberg.org/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge
| JarlUlvi wrote:
| Suddenly, I'm glad I never bought a fitbit
| Vermeulen wrote:
| I don't understand the fear of Google from FitBit users in these
| comments. Google has a clear user agreement with how they use
| your data, including not selling it - and they rely on users
| trusting them. I'd rather my data be with one of the tech giants
| than a unprofitable start up
| dx87 wrote:
| Unless there's a guarantee that breaking the user agreement
| results in a fine that exceeds the money they got by breaking
| the agreement, the user agreement is mostly worthless.
| breck wrote:
| I agree with this. I was worried about FitBit ever since the
| Apple Watch came out and decimated FitBit's profits.
|
| But Google acquiring them makes me feel like they'll last a
| long time, and I won't have to switch ecosystems yet again (I
| was coming from Microsoft Band).
|
| I would have loved it if FitBit could have remained
| independent, but basically impossible in today's messed up
| competitive environment.
| [deleted]
| JMTQp8lwXL wrote:
| "clear" and "user agreement" aren't two words I'd expect to see
| together. There is always more to the fine print.
| LunaSea wrote:
| I don't understand the fear of Facebook from WhatsApp / Oculus
| users in these comments. Facebook has a clear user agreement
| with how they use your data, including not selling it - and
| they rely on users trusting them. I'd rather my data be with
| one of the tech giants than a unprofitable start up.
| Vermeulen wrote:
| It is true I'd rather my data be with Facebook than a
| unprofitable startup, which was made clear, so pretty
| pointless copy and paste
| [deleted]
| hedora wrote:
| Google doesn't sell personal information in the same way that
| Amazon doesn't sell cloud computing, and Microsoft doesn't sell
| software.
|
| Also, Google has the capability to do much more damage with my
| personal information than most other organizations on earth.
|
| Ultimately, I don't trust them, and I can't opt out of their
| data collection. (Yes, I've seen their opt-out page. It doesn't
| stop them from building ad profiles when I browse third party
| sites, mapping my back yard, discriminating against me with
| ReCaptcha, mapping my wifi ssid location without my consent, or
| doing countless other things I'd rather they not do, and that I
| never gave them permission to do.)
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Does anyone trust user agreements anymore? Give it couple
| years, they'll either renege or it'll turn out that they found
| a loophole and been screwing everyone all that time.
| philtar wrote:
| This reads like a Google shill wrote it, but if not:
|
| 1) the fear of Google owning data is that they will be able to
| target us more and more. As if our internet behavior data
| wasn't enough, now they have our biological data.
|
| 2) the fact that they don't sell it misses the point because in
| fact they are the party we don't want the data to get to (along
| with Facebook et all). And you can bet your ass they'll sell it
| when they strapped for cash.
|
| 3) I would definitely not rather my data he with a tech giant
| who can map it with all my other data that they currently have.
| wsloth514 wrote:
| It isn't just the data people fear. It is the product support,
| hardware decisions, and lifetime of the product. One, they have
| been become known for not making great hardware quality (See
| recent Pixel line issues). Besides Pixel lineup, there have
| been multiple hardware issues so they are not known for
| quality. Two, they have been known to screw up hardware
| features and do their own thing, see Nest lineup. This can be
| seen as a good thing and as a risk. An example of this is they
| like to 'beta test' new features on the customer to try to get
| an edge on the competition. But it can backfire and provide a
| worse user experience. I am referring to the Pixel 4 with Soli
| sensor that killed the battery. There have been other instances
| where they add a new feature on Android or WearOS to only drop
| support later. Look at the Google Cardboard, dead. Even WearOs
| they had to rebrand. Third, they are known for dropping support
| for a product after what 3 years? Just look at
| https://killedbygoogle.com/ I use to be a huge Google fan in
| terms of both software and hardware. Their software is still
| great. But the competition is catching up. So where does that
| leave Google in the market? I realized that the Android phones
| from other hardware vendors are a lot more impressive and
| cheaper. So will I buy a new fitbit after the first 4 I had
| broke before Google? I don't think I will any time soon until
| Google's reputation has changed my mind when it comes to
| hardware.
| Vermeulen wrote:
| I agree - I'd be more hopeful for Fitbit with other tech
| giants (microsoft/apple)
| [deleted]
| haunter wrote:
| Google = 0 customer service, 0 help. They are an ad agency and
| a B2B company. Good luck solving any problem as a singular
| user.
|
| Also enjoy the paperweight when they kill your Google account
| for whatever random reason (we won't even tell you why and no
| appeals, have fun!)
| eh78ssxv2f wrote:
| There are many cases where Google has used dark patterns to
| gather data from users. Now, the ToS may mention those cases
| clearly, but that's not an excuse for the Google's behavior.
|
| Recent examples: Google tracking users per Chrome installation
| ID [1], Chrome exempting Google sites from user site data
| setting [2], Chrome experimenting with silently proxying user
| traffic through their servers [3].
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22236106 [2]
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24817304 [3]
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25337995
| mc32 wrote:
| While you're right that your data might be safer with Google,
| the fear or unease is with Google having even _more_ data on
| people. Too much data in the hands of one company.
| client4 wrote:
| I think the concern centers more around Google's horrific
| customer service and wanton axing of services.
| swarnie_ wrote:
| Things change, i thought my Whatsapp data was safe from
| TheZuck.
| dkersten wrote:
| Not selling it doesn't matter to me because the company that
| I'm afraid of ending up with my data -- ie the company I don't
| want others to sell their data to -- is Google itself.
|
| You have to ask yourself, why don't we want companies to sell
| our data in the first place? What's wrong with a third party
| having it? Its out of fear of them abusing that data. So then
| you have to ask yourself, what counts as abuse? To me, its any
| time a company uses the data against me, in order to make me
| spend money or buy products. This is EXACTLY what Google does
| with my data. They use it to find out what the best adverts to
| serve me are, that give the highest likelihood that I will
| click on them and buy something. Given the amount of garbage
| adverts they have, I do not trust Google for a second: I've
| seen plenty of Google and Youtube adverts for outright scams,
| exploitative garbage like Raid Shadow Legends, have heard
| reports of malware being served, etc. As long as Google happily
| serve these adverts on their network (and they don't even
| respond to reporting the adverts, as plenty of HN submissions
| have shown), I don't believe they can be trusted, in general
| and certainly not with my data.
|
| Therefore, I do not want Google to have any data on me and
| that's why I am against this and other acquisitions.
|
| Besides just the data, its also Googles record for shutting
| down services they buy and their non-existent customer support.
| m12k wrote:
| Another one for https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/ Will
| Fitbit end up in https://killedbygoogle.com/ too?
| rvz wrote:
| Translation: Google now has access to all your fitness and health
| data and will be integrated into Google Fit.
|
| No thanks and no deal.
| blisterpeanuts wrote:
| Five or six years ago, I would have said, "Great! Now my Fitbit
| will be better integrated with Android and my Google ecosystem.
| Plus it will inject some much needed stability into a faltering
| company, to bolster the quality and advance their products.
| Yay!"
|
| Now I think about the fact that I just looked someone up on
| contacts.google.com, then added a visit with them to
| calendar.google.com, and talked with them about it via
| gmail.com. They know so much about me already, and now they'll
| have my health history.
|
| The only silver lining is that their security is probably
| better, and my data is less likely to be hacked and stolen.
|
| But otherwise... Looking forward to a nice Linux/open software
| fitness watch, from a Kickstarter or other effort, so some of
| us can take better control of our data.
| franciscojgo wrote:
| Exactly. They say it as if joining Google was a positive. No it
| it isn't. Just tell the truth: you sold Fitbit and made bank.
| No issue here.
| radicalriddler wrote:
| It is a positive. For the owners and all the investors!
| protomyth wrote:
| This thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10932968 gets
| a lot scarier now. My response then was
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10933325
| Dear Customer, We are sorry for improperly sending
| out the "Broken Heart" alert to you on January 21, 2023.
| We should have sent you the "She's Pregnant" alert. In
| the future, please ensure both you and your dating
| partners are running the same OS version. Thank you for
| your understanding. sorry,
| FizzyBaneFitness
|
| substitue Google Fitness now
| jessehattabaugh wrote:
| I have been using an app called Fit-to-fit to sync my heartrate
| and sleep data from Fitbit to Google Fit for years. This saves
| me some trouble so I'm excited! Any idea when this will be
| delivered?
| noncoml wrote:
| It's becoming more and more difficult to keep away from Google
| eyes these days. Picasa, Waze, Nest, Fitbit where all companies
| whose products I used before the acquisition.
| ipsum2 wrote:
| What other products are you using that aren't acquired by
| Google yet? Asking for my stock investments.
| [deleted]
| wayne wrote:
| I wonder how engineering integration works for an acquisition
| this size (Wikipedia: ~1694 employees). Google interviews test
| for very specific things so it's unlikely every engineer in
| Fitbit would have passed. Fitbit's big enough that I doubt you'd
| re-interview every engineer and doing that would scare engineers
| away, but Fitbit's not big enough where you'd let Fitbit continue
| to do their own thing for a long period of time. Would you just
| convert every engineer into the Google leveling system best you
| can and see how it shakes out over time in performance review? Do
| these things get talked about during acquisition talks?
| wombat-man wrote:
| I'm guessing at the specific knowledge some of these employees
| have is valued, and they probably wouldn't take kindly to
| having to study for a coding test just to keep their job.
|
| I'm guessing they automatically hire some, and interview others
| who are maybe less core to the business. They can always layoff
| later if it doesn't end up being a fit.
| valarauko wrote:
| > I'm guessing at the specific knowledge some of these
| employees have is valued, and they probably wouldn't take
| kindly to having to study for a coding test just to keep
| their job.
|
| Genuine Q: even if the employees don't take kindly to it,
| does it matter?
| parliament32 wrote:
| Well yeah, otherwise they leave and take their friends with
| them. If that happens to enough of the engineering
| department Google is left with just a pile of IP and
| trademarks, and will have to scramble to fill those
| positions with internal talent (who will obviously not be
| as experienced in this specific field as the aqui-hires).
|
| Acquiring the talent is a big part of these acquisitions,
| and it makes sense for Google to try to keep them happy.
| capableweb wrote:
| > They can always layoff later if it doesn't end up being a
| fit.
|
| Such a fucked up thing that that's legal in some parts of the
| world. "Ah I don't know if we should hire these people or
| not, let's just hire them now and if we don't need them, fire
| them later. We can tell them a week before or something" just
| fills the air with smug MBAs not understanding that some
| people work for a living, not for fun.
| dvt wrote:
| > Such a fucked up thing that that's legal in some parts of
| the world.
|
| It's legal basically anywhere in the United States, as most
| states follow at-will employment laws. Is it even
| surprising that young people (20s-30s) job hop every 2-3
| years?
| at-fates-hands wrote:
| They've been talking about a 100% transient (read:
| contract) worker population for some time now.
|
| A lot of the developers I know rotate between contracting
| and FTE work. They're FTE timeframes line up with your
| assertion. They stay at one place, get some new tech
| knowledge, work a few projects and then move on after a
| few years.
|
| The think the age range has greatly expanded though since
| most of my group is in their mid 30's now. Maybe more
| people are starting to contract younger so to them, they
| see it as a more normalized work career than some other
| people who want to get one gig, settle in and be there
| for 20+ years?
| schoolornot wrote:
| I take it you've never dealt with conflicting cultures
| post-acquisition. I have and it was extremely frustrating
| fighting with people to follow and respect the parent
| company's conventions. At some point you realize that
| someone is so set in their ways they are affecting the
| team's deliverables.
| Closi wrote:
| > It was extremely frustrating fighting with people to
| follow and respect the parent company's conventions
|
| This post is a tutorial on how _not_ to handle an
| acquisition! It 's generally a bad sign for an
| acquisition if staff from the parent company say words
| like that they are "fighting to impose the parent
| companies culture and conventions"!
|
| It's an acquisition, but companies are made of people,
| and just because a parent company does something one way
| doesn't mean that it will fit the company they have
| acquired.
|
| Take the acquisition of Disney & Pixar. Steve Jobs stated
| that he wouldn't sign up to the acquisition if it meant
| that Disney culture would be imposed, because "Disney's
| culture [would] destroy Pixar and distraction will kill
| Pixar's creativity". The whole structure of how the
| acquisition was planned was to ensure that Pixar
| maintained creative control and autonomy, and wasn't
| bulldozed by Disney Corporate.
|
| I've lived through an acquisition too - the real factor
| to success is to listen and learn from each other, and
| build a shared way of working. Unless you are buying a
| failing company, you have to appreciate that they are
| doing something right and know their own company more
| than you do. And if it means you use tabs and they use
| spaces, that's fine.
| sulam wrote:
| None of our engineers had to do a coding test to get their
| Google offer. :)
| sulam wrote:
| More seriously -- I can't really talk about this in great
| detail. What I will say is the obvious: Google engineers have
| been hired in the past at Fitbit and vice versa. Leveling
| systems aren't perfect, and there's no perfect translation,
| but there is a rough mapping that can be derived by existing
| data. One special person even worked at Fitbit, went to
| Google, later came back to Fitbit, and is now at Google
| again. We didn't need to interview everyone to build a
| mapping.
| tpmx wrote:
| My first reaction: 1.7k employees at Fitbit? Wow, SV has gone
| crazy.
| DaftDank wrote:
| I had a Fitbit Charge 3, and had to replace it about 3 times IIRC
| in a little over a year period. The 3rd replacement happened a
| week after the warranty expired, which to their credit they still
| replaced it. But it once again died shortly thereafter, at which
| point I just bought an Apple Watch. Mainly for the ECG function
| -- my wife had bought me the Fitbit after I was diagnosed with
| atrial fibrillation, so I figured I'd rather have something that
| could help me check more than just my pulse to determine if I was
| out of rhythm.
| lkbm wrote:
| I've had quite a few Fitbits break, which is frustrating, but
| their redeeming quality is their willingness to replace over
| and over again.
|
| When it breaks, they generally offer a free replacement or the
| option to buy a newer version at half price, so since my first
| in 2016, I've had six or seven -- three or four replacements
| and two half-price upgrades. (Charge HR replaced once or twice,
| Blaze replaced once, and Charge 3 replaced once.)
|
| I suspect I'm still a profitable customer, but I suspect
| they'll become a lot stingier eventually.
|
| My main concern with switching to a different brand is that I'm
| worried that they're be more breakable and less readily
| replaced. (Also, I'm on Android, so there are too many options
| and I can't decide.)
| breck wrote:
| Interesting. In my experience it used to be the case that my
| FitBit would break once or twice a year--and like you they
| would always replace it. But I've noticed a trend toward
| reliability.
|
| My Versa 2 has been operating like a champ since the day I got
| it when it came out. I push it too the limit in the outdoors
| with activities like surfing, snorkeling, et cetera.
|
| Every year I buy the Apple Watch thinking this will be the year
| I switch. But again, just returned it on Friday. Hardware is
| super impressive, but it just feels like putting an iPad on my
| wrist. I don't want a computer on my wrist I just want to be
| healthy. And the battery life on the Versa 2 is just so much
| better. I put it on and only have to take it off about once a
| week for an hour to charge.
| phire wrote:
| My Versa 2 started dying as soon as I got it would just lag
| every time you tried to interact with it (touch screen,
| button, gestures). Eventually it degraded so much that it
| would even stop measuring activity at random. Apparently it's
| a known hardware issue, even if it really felt like a
| software issue.
|
| This all happened during the first lockdown, so I had to wait
| weeks for the stores to open and get it replaced.
|
| But the replacement is going strong, I've had it for 9 months
| now.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Didn't they merge with Fitbit a long time ago?
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| They announced the acquisition in 2019 but it had to get
| regulatory approval first. A lot of people expected regulators
| to reject the acquisition.
|
| I consider it a massive failure of our governments that whilst
| acknowledging Google is a monopoly and engaging in antitrust
| cases against them, they also permitted Google to buy a
| multibillion dollar company that will expand their monopoly.
| Dig1t wrote:
| Agreed, it is a complete disaster for privacy and competition
| in this space.
| breck wrote:
| I won't comment on the privacy implications, but can you
| substantiate your claims about competition at all?
|
| I saw Apple Watch utterly destroy Microsoft Band and
| Pebble, and FitBit was headed for the same fate. If not for
| Google stepping in, competition against Apple Watch would
| have just been from Garmin (solid company, but they too
| probably would have been crushed).
|
| Source: investor in Apple, FitBit, Garmin, Google,
| Microsoft; was in the first batch of Pebble 3rd party devs;
| avid Microsoft Band user and participated in a number of
| internal projects when I was there.
| tomComb wrote:
| Should they really be penalized before being convicted?
|
| Consider that Oracle claims that the regulatory actions
| around the world against Google are because they ran an
| extensive but secret lobbying campaign against Google to make
| this happen.
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-23/oracle-
| fo... With enough lobbying dollars much is possible - isn't
| this a reminder to wait for the outcome before you convict?
|
| Also, clearly the monopoly that is being suggested is not in
| this area - in fact, there is a danger in the dominance of
| Apple's watch and this should increase competition.
| josefx wrote:
| > Should they really be penalized before being convicted?
|
| People often land in prison before they are convicted. Also
| restricting a company that appears to be a bad actor to
| prevent additional harm on society seems only sensible.
| ygjb wrote:
| > People often land in prison before they are convicted.
|
| Yeah, and this is seen as a huge injustice by many
| people. There are clear cut cases where there is a risk
| of flight or further harm, but in most cases, this type
| of discretionary pre-trial incarceration tends to impact
| minorities and people without means to hire lawyers or
| pay for bonds.
|
| This analogy falls apart there because there are few
| companies that would be subject to monopoly rules that
| would lack the resources to defend themselves.
| zaptheimpaler wrote:
| Yep. Maybe they'll object to the acquisition a year later
| after Google has safely 5x 3-AZ replicated all the heart
| rate, sleep and location data from millions of people.
| Apparently Google is simultaneously a monopoly due to the
| market power they gained using data but yet safe enough to
| trust with pings every minute from people wearing a watch all
| day. Its nuts.
| csours wrote:
| Any statement made by the leader of an acquired business unit
| should be read like a letter burning in a bonfire - they may mean
| it at the time, but they have no real power to make it true in
| the future.
| akmarinov wrote:
| Well, RIP FitBit's Health API, that'll probably be rolled into
| Google Fit.
|
| As a mobile developer, when we do any Health integration, the
| topmost platforms by usage are Apple Health and Fitbit, followed
| by Samsung Health and lastly Google Fit.
|
| This easily lets them catapult in second place.
| blacklight wrote:
| Although I criticize Google many times and I try to avoid their
| products as much as possible, I don't have many alternatives at
| hand for products like WearOS and Google Fit.
|
| And both of them have had major usability, integrations and
| stability issues over the years that are hard to ignore.
|
| In an ideal world, I wish that small companies like Fitbit could
| compete with Google and Apple and release good all-inclusive
| smartwatches that developers can use to bukld good general-
| purpose apps, with a well-designed interface, and that are also
| very solid fitness trackers.
|
| Unfortunately we aren't in an ideal world though, so I can just
| hope that this acquisition helps bringing some proper vision in
| the current chaos that reigns in the WearOS and Fit departments.
| swarnie_ wrote:
| So to be clear... Despite trying to avoid big Californian tech
| companies my health data is now going to Google, my chat data to
| Facebook and my insurrection attempts to torrent websites?
|
| Please make it stop....
| lawrencevillain wrote:
| How long before it's killed by Google?
| akmarinov wrote:
| 2-3 years tops.
| rnotaro wrote:
| I wonder if future Fitbit watches will use WearOS instead of the
| current Fitbit software.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| Nobody knows yet which side will "win" internally. Wear OS is
| Android-based and a Google product. It's also universally
| accepted as garbage: Even Android Police bloggers trash on the
| state of Wear OS. Fitbit is a better platform that has vastly
| more users and performs better. But it's not Googley at all, so
| if Google keeps it, there will likely be a lot of changes.
| brmgb wrote:
| Wear OS needs work but it's not garbage. Given enough RAM
| it's usable. The Fossil Gen 5 for example is somewhat fine.
| The issue is more with Qualcomm releasing garbage CPU. Google
| releasing a watch would help in the same way the Nexus line
| helped with phones.
|
| What WearOS needs is man power and an easier time getting the
| fix they need in the Android tree. It's not however a lost
| cause. With the improved activity monitoring provided by
| Fitbit it could be nice.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| > Given enough RAM
|
| This is the problem. A smartwatch should not be burning a
| lot of RAM. It has a battery the size of a dime, it should
| be doing very little with processor or memory. Wear OS is
| too bloated to the task.
| brmgb wrote:
| > A smartwatch should not be burning a lot of RAM.
|
| Then again, the Gen 5 has 1Go and works fine. That's the
| same amount than an Apple watch serie 4/5.
|
| > It has a battery the size of a dime, it should be doing
| very little with processor or memory.
|
| Wear OS is far from perfect but that's more on the
| Snapdragon 3100. Samsung and Apple CPU are far better but
| they don't sell them.
|
| It's very much a chicken and egg situation. Qualcomm
| doesn't invest because there is not market and there is
| no market because poor CPUs lead to products which are
| not competitive. Google could have unlocked the situation
| but I guess they were wainting for the Fitbit acquisition
| to go through before going back to wearables.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| Qualcomm isn't the only microprocessor vendor. And even
| if it was, imagine this call:
|
| "Hi, Qualcomm, this is Rick Osterloh from Google. How
| much money would we need to invest for you to release a
| smartwatch processor that isn't garbage?" "Hey Rick. We'd
| need about $$$$." "Great, I work for a trillion-dollar
| company."
|
| Which is to say, Google has the money and power to
| literally make what it wants happen, if it isn't
| happening, it's not reasonable or logical to blame
| another party. It is fundamentally a lack of commitment
| by Google to support their product line.
| brmgb wrote:
| > Qualcomm isn't the only microprocessor vendor.
|
| Well, actually, on this segment, they kind of are.
|
| > It is fundamentally a lack of commitment by Google to
| support their product line.
|
| Yes, I think I did say that repeatedly in the post you
| are answering. I also talked about the Nexus line. The
| again, Google did buy a giant of the wearable and fitness
| industry. It's just that the acquisition took a lot
| longer than expected.
|
| Still, I was initially answering someone calling Wear OS
| garbage. It is in need of more developers and working on
| suboptimal hardware however.
| workOrNah wrote:
| pixel watch coming soon?
| hcurtiss wrote:
| Any day now . . .
| petercooper wrote:
| What is a good lightweight 24/7 heart rate and sleep tracker
| that's not a Fitbit? I have an Apple Watch but the Fitbit's sleep
| tracking is way better and I keep it on for days (whereas I
| charge my Apple Watch overnight). I am super happy with my Fitbit
| but given Google I assume it will be "sunset" within a year or
| two so I want to switch early.
| james2406 wrote:
| I've heard good things about the Oura Ring
| https://ouraring.com/. It tracks sleep and has a 7 day battery
| life.
| webkike wrote:
| Oura ring is good. Tracks heart rate and sleep
| satisfactorily. I heartedly recommend.
| LibertyBeta wrote:
| The Garmin Forerunner 45/245 might fit that bill. I'm wearing
| one right now and only notice it because its riding up on my
| wrist from my sweater.
|
| And as a bit of a metric nerd the Garmin data exports rock.
|
| Oh, and I haven't charged it in over a week.
| petercooper wrote:
| After having seen how difficult it is to get an Oura in the
| UK, I might investigate this first - thanks!
| LibertyBeta wrote:
| Sure thing! The forerunner 45s is the cheaper option in the
| forerunner lineup, BUT it doesn't have standard lugs.
|
| There is also the Venu and Vivoactive lines with touch
| screens, but their battery isn't nearly as good as anything
| in forerunner's camp.
| pluies wrote:
| Has something made it more difficult? :o I ordered a Oura
| ring in the UK about a year ago, and it was just a standard
| online purchase.
| burlesona wrote:
| I use the Oura Ring and really like it for sleep tracking. It
| also tracks heart rate, but with a caveat which is it doesn't
| track while you're moving quickly, so it's not really an
| exercise tracker. (Something about how it's tiny sensors work)
|
| My combo is Apple Watch by day, Oura Ring by night. I don't
| often wear them together.
|
| Very happy with the setup and would recommend.
| petercooper wrote:
| Thanks for reminding me about the Oura ring, I've seen a few
| people say they've been happy with it on Twitter in the past
| year, it sounds like an ideal place to start - thanks! :)
| breck wrote:
| I'm in all the Subreddits, and the Garmin users seem pretty
| happy with those products.
|
| Disclosure: I also own Garmin Stock, but am a FitBit user
| (owned FitBit stock too but sold when the GOOG acquisition was
| announced).
| josefresco wrote:
| Xiaomi Mi Band.
| PurpleFoxy wrote:
| The mi bands seem great if you want something very basic.
| Super cheap but still retains a lot of the features of
| premium smart watches.
|
| Only issue I noticed was the heart rate monitor was wildly
| inaccurate but this was on a much older version (the 2 I
| think, maybe the mi band 5 has fixed this)
| josefresco wrote:
| Yeah the heart monitor on my Mi Band 2 isn't very accurate,
| even when I "press" the band to my wrist. It came out in
| 2016 so I'm assuming the 5 will feature a much more modern
| sensor suite.
| brlewis wrote:
| > I am super happy with my Fitbit but given Google I assume it
| will be "sunset" within a year or two
|
| I work for Fitbit. I don't speak for Fitbit, but now that the
| deal is closed I can share my own opinions and ask my own
| questions.
|
| What makes you think Google wants Apple to have the only good
| smart watch? That would be the main effect of sunsetting
| Fitbit.
|
| Nest still exists after their 2014 acquisition by Google, and
| Nest is not as important to any other part of Google as Fitbit
| is to Android. Why would they be more inclined to sunset
| Fitbit?
| petercooper wrote:
| Google has a perception problem. Even if I can't logically
| defend how I feel about their likelihood of killing a
| product, it doesn't mean that image hasn't been built up over
| time by their actions. That's branding.
|
| That aside, if they end up tying Fitbit accounts to Google
| accounts, the whole jig is up anyway, because no-one wants to
| buy a hardware product whose operation depends upon not
| having Google shut your account down with no recourse other
| than to raise a stink on sites like HN.
| akmarinov wrote:
| They have a very clear history of buying companies, carving
| out what they need from it and reselling it (Boston Dynamics,
| Motorola, HTC, etc).
|
| Chances are that Fitbit won't be around 2-3 years from now,
| hence no real reason to invest in a product from them now.
| joshuamorton wrote:
| As I understand it, the bits they carved out of HTC and
| motorola are what became Pixel. It's not like they stopped
| producing phones.
| brlewis wrote:
| Like everyone who has an account on HN, I'm aware that
| there are companies acquired by Google that no longer
| exist. But some -- Android, youtube, Nest, etc. -- still
| exist. What makes you think Fitbit will fall in the former
| category? Random probability?
| ssully wrote:
| I don't know, I used to resist people's comments about
| Google shutting everything down, but I find myself on
| that side of the fence more often these days. With that
| said, I would be surprised if Google shut Fitbit down.
| Wearables seem to be big business when done right, and
| Fitbit is the best thing outside of Apple watches (not
| counting Garmin, they are in an upper tier imo). I think
| it's in Google's best interest to properly integrate
| Fitbit into their company and help it grow.
| akmarinov wrote:
| Usually the hardware companies they kill off eventually,
| Nest being the outlier.
|
| I'm not saying that they'll 100% kill off Fitbit, but
| it's very likely. Google already does hardware and
| software that does a lot of the same stuff, no point in
| having 2 brands.
| Majestic121 wrote:
| > That would be the main effect of sunsetting Fitbit.
|
| That's very debatable, considering the smartwatches from
| Samsung, Fossil, Garmin...
| sdfhbdf wrote:
| Withings Scanwatch [0]
|
| [0]: https://www.withings.com/de/en/scanwatch
| CephalopodMD wrote:
| Hopefully this means better support for exporting, say, step and
| minute by minute heart rate data to Apple health and vice versa.
| I want to be able to do what I want with my data.
| mdoms wrote:
| I would imagine the data will go to Google Fit which exposes a
| comprehensive (but difficult to use) API.
| norswap wrote:
| My concern is not for my data (because I don't care, not because
| I trust in Google's goodwill and governance), but Google has a
| sad history of mismanaging their smaller side projects.
|
| I pray that this time, it's different, but I'm not holding my
| breath.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-01-14 23:00 UTC)