[HN Gopher] FTC Settlement with Fertility-Tracking App for Faceb...
___________________________________________________________________
FTC Settlement with Fertility-Tracking App for Facebook/Google SDK
Data Sharing
Author : averysmallbird
Score : 85 points
Date : 2021-01-13 18:39 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ftc.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ftc.gov)
| 908087 wrote:
| Am I missing something, or are they really being let off with
| less than a slap on the wrist, and no fines?
|
| Not really sending a great message here, FTC.
| MarkSweep wrote:
| If anyone is looking for an alternative to Flo, as of iOS 13 the
| built-in Health app has similar functionality:
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210407
| mtlynch wrote:
| I know of another one called POW! made by indie developer
| Benedicte Raae:
|
| https://www.usepow.app/
|
| The data is all client-side encrypted, so she doesn't collect
| any sensitive user data that could be sold or abused.
|
| I've never used it, but I think the privacy-first mission is
| cool.
| Darkphibre wrote:
| Open inquiry: Anything out there recommended for Android or PC?
| bmvcant wrote:
| There is a secure app called garbage bin: Open the lid, firmly
| grasp your iPhone, place it over the bin, open your hand and
| drop it.
|
| Use pen and paper and the problem is solved.
| edoceo wrote:
| Is this related to the US Fertility company's data breach?
|
| Leaked SSN and DoB data, rouge code was on there for a month
| before they found it.
|
| Edit: it's a different breach of a different fertility related
| company.
|
| Finally data-breaches are sexy ;)
| 1-6 wrote:
| A menstrual cycle company named Flo. App-tly named (excuse the
| pun).
| [deleted]
| ndiscussion wrote:
| To quote a dead comment:
|
| "Am I missing something, or are they really being let off with
| less than a slap on the wrist, and no fines? Not really sending a
| great message here, FTC."
|
| Agreed. This is one of the most egregious abuses of privacy
| imagineable.
| philsnow wrote:
| > This is one of the most egregious abuses of privacy
| imagineable.
|
| For people who haven't used these kinds of apps, Flo includes
| day-by-day tracking of: - sex and sex drive
| - didn't have sex - protected sex - unprotected
| sex - high sex drive - masturbation -
| mood: - calm - happy - [...] -
| sad - depressed - obsessive thoughts -
| apathetic - very self-critical - symptoms
| (cramps, tender breasts, acne, many more) - vaginal
| discharge (none, spotting, sticky, eggwhite, etc, "unusual")
| - other (travel, stress, disease/injury, alcohol)
|
| There's a ridiculous amount of potential here for just purely
| creepy oversharing of information that a woman might presume is
| safe to enter into an app.
|
| There's also a lot of things here that are maybe legally
| dangerous to be disclosing outside of a doctor-patient context
| (the last several "mood" items).
|
| This is abhorrent.
| koolk3ychain wrote:
| This is freaky, with this data and a rough identity (ads
| wise) you could literally AB test what ads / suggestive
| content affects someone's mood and relationship. How bone
| headed do you have to be to actually ask "what could someone
| do with this info, seems innocuous to me"?
| Ar-Curunir wrote:
| Perhaps they didn't think it was innocuous at all?
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| It's worth pointing out that traditional data brokers are
| able to track menstrual cycles based on purchase activity.
| Nobody can opt out of this and it's been going on for a few
| decades. It can be used for ad targeting by presenting the
| target with the optimal content for each week.
| swebs wrote:
| You can revive a dead comment if you feel it was unjustly
| killed. Just click the timestamp then click "vouch".
| zinekeller wrote:
| I do get with the frustration, but with the current state of US
| (federal) laws it is probably the best remedy available now
| (unlike GDPR where you can really go and score larger fines and
| even jail time if it is grossly negligent or intentional).
| averysmallbird wrote:
| The FTC brings privacy cases under its 'unfair and deceptive
| acts or practices in commerce' prohibition, which does not
| provide it the legal basis to impose civil penalties. There are
| possibly other things it could have required (the recent Ever
| case requiring deletion is a good example), but it is currently
| constrained on what it can force for a first violation. The two
| Democratic FTC Commissioners issued a useful statement on what
| else they would have required:
| https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_statements...
| Cd00d wrote:
| I'm curious if anyone has insight into the _value_ of this kind
| of data.
|
| I work with alternative data for investors, mostly consumer spend
| behavior - things like point of sale transactions and online cart
| contents. These have value in that you can correlate panel
| behaviors with a company's revenue or identify trends in the
| market.
|
| But, for data like ovulation schedules or events like pregnancy,
| it seems that it's a lot of work (and based on the FTC ethically
| questionable) to see one-off events or target specific consumers
| a small set of products.
|
| I must be looking at the available opportunities with some kind
| of blind spot, because I don't get why companies would _pay_ for
| this sort of data.
| jmholla wrote:
| Some companies' business is that one off customer. Think of
| weddings and graduations. Entire businesses are formed around
| those too.
| ascagnel_ wrote:
| There's a lot of value in knowing about a pregnancy -- in the
| months leading up to a baby, you're spending a ton of money
| getting ready for the baby or on constantly buying new clothes
| for mom as the pregnancy moves along. Once the baby comes, you
| have a good chance for capturing a repeat customer on a bunch
| of baby-related items (diapers, wipes, etc).
| [deleted]
| joshspankit wrote:
| Also, if you've ever known someone who's a new parent; the
| sheer volume of "welcome packages", pamphlets, flyers,
| coupons, and free samples is staggering and clearly indicates
| (to me at least) that the customer value is uncommonly high.
| erichurkman wrote:
| If you sell cribs, you likely only have 1 - 2 chances per
| couple's entire lives to sell a crib. Saturation and timing
| of ads are paramount.
| digitalengineer wrote:
| It is not because you are pregnant or because there is a baby
| on the way. It is because, during this time in a woman's life
| she is very open for changes in her daily routines. Everything
| is interesting: from breakfast brands to shampoo brands, type
| and brand of car, even housing.
| tcoff91 wrote:
| You should read this article about Target going to great
| lengths to figure out which customers were pregnant.
| https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits....
| bumbada wrote:
| The value is enormous because women's hormones depend basically
| on the menstrual cycle and the modifications of that with
| things like the pill.
|
| People's behavior (women and men) depend a lot on hormones.
|
| Big big data you can identify lots of useful patterns of
| behavior and you could control those.
| antihero wrote:
| Are you kidding? As far as I know, there is no greater event
| generally in a persons life when their purchasing habits and
| lifestyle change, and they are looking for new brands, than
| pregnancy.
|
| Not only just for the huge amount of money people will spend on
| baby stuff, sorting out cribs, but then eighteen years
| perfectly time-able marketing for birthdays, different stages
| of development, loans, different cars, houses, college loans,
| It is probably the most valuable single even about someone from
| an advertising perspective and whoever can get in first is out
| to make bank.
|
| How valuable do you think it to build relationship with, track
| the preferences of, and pick a the perfect adverts and products
| to show a person who has purchasing power for someone for
| eighteen solid years? With 100% certainty of what they are
| going to need unless something tragic happens.
|
| Also knowing that based on the socioeconomic status whether
| they will be pressed for time and desperate for discounts, or
| be flush enough that they can afford to give their sprogg the
| most expensive things they will grow out of.
| Cd00d wrote:
| I was not kidding. I guess I didn't realize they were selling
| data _with_ PII, which is shocking. I 'm actually surprised
| Google and Facebook were taking in other-party data that
| wasn't aggregated, just due to the privacy and perception
| concerns.
|
| That said, it still seems like a vector that's really
| problematic compared to gain. My personal anecdote is that my
| kids both _only_ used Pampers Swaddlers diapers, simply
| because that 's what the hospital gave us as we left - that
| is what I would see as a brilliant marketing partnership for
| P&G without risks of invasive perceptions.
| core-e wrote:
| At a minimum the last few on the mood list (depressed obsessive
| thoughts, apathetic, very self-critical) seem like great
| indicators of when someone might be the most receptive to
| advertising for SSRIs.
| ogre_codes wrote:
| > I don't get why companies would pay for this sort of data.
|
| Knowing when someone is pregnant or trying to get pregnant seem
| like premium moments. Lots of money in fertility treatments and
| related services. Lots more money in maternity products and new
| baby products.
| jschwartzi wrote:
| Yeah you can definitely sell anything to a couple who is
| trying to get pregnant, especially if you know they've been
| trying for a few months without success.
| ogre_codes wrote:
| I'm sure you can successfully sell anything from coffee to
| yoga classes that helps with fertility. Just takes the
| right pitch and the right mark.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-01-13 23:00 UTC)