[HN Gopher] No-code platform Webflow (YC) raises $140M at a $2.1...
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       No-code platform Webflow (YC) raises $140M at a $2.1B valuation
        
       Author : brryant
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2021-01-13 17:15 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (venturebeat.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (venturebeat.com)
        
       | zed88 wrote:
       | After watching Vlad's interview on this week in startup, I think
       | the product deserves more success.His story is inspiring.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/pkJPxDgUGMA
        
       | chafik-bel wrote:
       | I believe that no-code is the right solution in some areas like
       | building quickly a website for those who don't want to hire a
       | developer. I have another use-case in the cloud management which
       | is a product I developed https://www.brainboard.co that generates
       | Terraform code from a drawing and I think no-code will be present
       | in more and more domains.
        
       | CedarMills wrote:
       | I really like Webflow. It felt what Squarespace should have
       | always been.
        
       | mchusma wrote:
       | We have been assessing migrating from our own Hugo based site to
       | webflow, so that our designers and business folks can more easily
       | make edits and spin up landing pages, etc.
       | 
       | The main hangups right now are lack of transparent pricing around
       | overages (it's "call for pricing") and we currently use AVIF and
       | AV1 and those do not appear to be supported by webflow. I also
       | think paid support tiers would be extremely helpful, like AWS.
       | I'm actually happy to pay for good support straight from the
       | company.
       | 
       | If anyone from webflow is listening, these are my main current
       | requests.
        
         | verdverm wrote:
         | Have you looked into hugo CMS providers? There are some out
         | their with these features, though I can't find the link right
         | now...
         | 
         | Webflow support is ok, feature addition seems to be abysmal.
         | Haven't seen anything significant since the last raise
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | How do they compare with e.g JourneyApps?
        
       | aparsons wrote:
       | If I had a dollar for every WYSIWYG web dev tool that bit the
       | dust, I'd be able to single-handedly finance this round. Before
       | the downvotes: I get it. Webflow is a nice tool. So was
       | Dreamweaver when it appeared. And everything in between. This is
       | an iterative process, with once tool better than the previous.
       | Maybe Webflow will be the one to make non-trivial WYSIWYG work -
       | but after having used it, I'm not betting on it. Their price
       | point is also a little high for small teams, but that is less
       | relevant to my main gripe here.
        
         | ChefboyOG wrote:
         | To be clear, non-trivial WYSIWYG already works.
         | 
         | Wix and Shopify are both publicly traded companies, while
         | Automattic and Squarespace are both planning 2021 IPOs. Wix
         | shares have gone from roughly ~$17 in 2013 to ~$257 today,
         | while Shopify has gone from ~$20 a share in 2016 to ~$1,184
         | today. Automattic's flagship platform--Wordpress--is
         | responsible for over a third of all sites on the web, and
         | Squarespace was generating over $300 million in revenue back in
         | 2017.
         | 
         | Webflow has roughly zero chance of replacing frontend
         | developers, but the "everyone who needs a website and doesn't
         | want to hire a frontend team" market is pretty large and has
         | been for a longtime.
         | 
         | What makes Webflow interesting to me, and where it is a gamble,
         | is where it stands on the spectrum of developer-friendliness to
         | "can kind of use a computer"-friendliness. They seem to be
         | betting on a change in the market, particularly around the
         | emergence (or rapid growth) of a certain demographic: people
         | who are familiar with web technologies (HTML/CSS/JS etc.) but
         | who don't want to muck around in them directly to build a site
         | --the "know enough to be dangerous" crowd, if I had to give it
         | a name.
         | 
         | I don't know if that will work out exactly, and I personally
         | don't really find it helpful, but it's interesting. At the very
         | least, I personally know a lot of teams building non-SaaS
         | products (infra tools etc.) that use Webflow for their
         | frontend.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | vegannet wrote:
         | I've used Webflow directly and seen it used within companies:
         | although not perfect, my assessment is that they've bridged the
         | gap between WYSIWYG and website builder. They've got room for
         | improvement but they're definitely on the right path, I'd bet
         | on Webflow -- if you look to how Wordpress is used in most
         | companies, Webflow is all the good parts.
        
           | verdverm wrote:
           | Having used it and subscribed, after their last round. I will
           | not be renewing. Cost is too high for a such a buggy product
           | that continues to not implement features. So little as
           | improved or changed. The most frustrating thing for me is how
           | they deal with different screen sizes and overrides. They
           | made CSS worse, it is beyond frustrating.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | I think they could be fine if companies were flexible. Too
         | often a tool with finite options is chosen and then the people
         | who selected the tool want all sorts of things it was not
         | designed to do.
        
         | gherkinnn wrote:
         | Webflow has been around for a long time though. They're doing
         | something right.
         | 
         | There was an explosion of these tools back in 2012. Products
         | like Easel[0] and Macaw[1] came and went. Webflow is still
         | here.
         | 
         | 0 - http://easel.io (link is dead, I know)
         | 
         | 1 - http://macaw.co
        
         | cmenge wrote:
         | I haven't used it, but I do share your skepticism. I ended up
         | rebuilding the last website that was exported from it because
         | it was horribly slow on mobile, despite it being an extremely
         | simple site.
        
       | sebg wrote:
       | The story of how they got into YC is an interesting one =>
       | https://webflow.com/blog/the-story-of-how-webflow-and-y-comb...
        
       | mguerville wrote:
       | I am happyu to see this crowd calling webflow for what it is, a
       | WYSIWYG editor, I'm a non technical but tech savvy person and
       | I've built simple sites (some with basic "app" like
       | functionalities) in the past using Squarespace, Wix, Wordpress,
       | and my current favorite: Tilda. Only in the past 18 months has
       | everyone starting to call Webflow "no-code" and I felt like I
       | must have been missing something.
       | 
       | Thunkable, Adalo, Bubble, those are no-code tools Webflow, Carrd
       | (which I like but is also touted as no-code platform when it's
       | basically a landing page builder) and in different categories
       | Notion or Airtable... they're great tools but it feels misleading
       | to call these "no code platforms"
        
         | verdverm wrote:
         | Agree, no-code is a hot marketing term right now.
         | 
         | The only legit no-code project I know of is
         | https://github.com/kelseyhightower/nocode
        
           | mguerville wrote:
           | Thanks for the link, I was able to deploy my first full
           | fledged nocode app at last!
        
             | verdverm wrote:
             | That's awesome, you are now ready for "high code"
             | 
             | https://github.com/hofstadter-io/hof
             | 
             | * am the author of this one
        
       | singhrac wrote:
       | I used Webflow extensively for a startup a few years ago where I
       | did front-end development and a few non-technical people were
       | trying to write out content pages (e.g. FAQ, features, etc.).
       | 
       | Honestly the whole experience was very underwhelming, but it
       | might have been the team, not the product. Because there weren't
       | components, it was hard to keep a consistent styling. And because
       | the non-technical people didn't have a design sense, I ended up
       | having to "clean" their work, then translate to CSS manually. I
       | guess it was neat to try to explore example ideas, but a lot of
       | those weren't translatable into "responsive" web pages (do people
       | still do that anymore?).
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-13 23:02 UTC)