[HN Gopher] The password guess worth $240m in Bitcoin
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       The password guess worth $240m in Bitcoin
        
       Author : LittlePeter
       Score  : 25 points
       Date   : 2021-01-13 14:44 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | mac01021 wrote:
       | Could this kind of problem be solved well using smart contracts?
       | (Not for Bitcoin, obviously, but on some more sophisticated
       | blockchain system).
       | 
       | Like, have a thing where if your wallet is inactive for a period
       | of greater than one year then all the money inside gets
       | transfered to your spouse/mother/financial-trust so that you can
       | recover it?
        
         | rfd4sgmk8u wrote:
         | This can actually be solved using smart contracts in bitcoin,
         | it is built into the underlying bitcoin opcodes -- CSV
         | https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0112.mediawi...
         | 
         | This is the underlying mechanism for Unilateral Channel Close
         | in the lightning smart contracts (on bitcoin), a timeout spend
         | clause.
         | 
         | Note: It wasn't a thing when these coins were first acquired,
         | so it doesn't really help in the situation.
        
       | adambcn wrote:
       | Who'd want an IronKey digital wallet after reading this!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | bawolff wrote:
         | The same people who wanted one before?
         | 
         | This is the entire point of having a hardware wallet. If this
         | situation changes your mind about them, then you were clearly
         | just buying them blindly without knowing what it is.
        
         | jsheard wrote:
         | On the contrary, I think it's good marketing for IronKey if
         | their bruteforce/tamper resistance has held up in the face of
         | someone with that much motivation to bypass it.
        
           | Rebelgecko wrote:
           | I had to throw my Ironkey away because it doesn't work over
           | USB-C to USB-A adapters
        
             | cududa wrote:
             | That's also a positive
        
         | phil21 wrote:
         | bought one actually - not quite due to this news, but because
         | it reminded me I needed to get around to it.
         | 
         | It solves a fun niche for me - a relatively secure but
         | technologically simple way for my parents to keep in the safe
         | in case of my early demise. My spouse and in-laws have the PIN
         | codes in their safes.
         | 
         | Seems about as good as I can get to store any
         | keys/passwords/sensitive digital info you have without needing
         | a SRE to be involved with unwinding your estate.
        
       | datenhorst wrote:
       | Never put all your eggs into one basket. I only own a negligible
       | amount of coins but have them distributed among 4 storage
       | methods, one of them a printout in a book
        
         | rwmurrayVT wrote:
         | As is the case here, what is negligible now may not be in the
         | future.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | Should have used a password manager.
       | 
       | Downvoters: Ok so how should he correctly remember that huge
       | password that unlocks his $240m (7,500 BTC) wallet with in 2
       | attempts? Pen and paper? All from memory?
       | 
       | Next time _use a password manager_. Period.
        
         | bawolff wrote:
         | No. You should not use a password manager for a hardware
         | security device. The point of those (among other things) is to
         | protect you from your computer being compromised. It defeats
         | the point if you stuff the password into your computer.
         | Security is about the weakest link.
         | 
         | Password managers are good advice for 99% of use cases.
         | Protecting an asset worth hundreds of millions is a bit of a
         | special case and you shouldn't follow the same advice as if you
         | were trying to protect your hacker news login credentials.
        
         | otachack wrote:
         | Password manager use while applying an indirect name for the
         | entry isn't a bad idea, especially if it's your main PM since
         | you can obfuscate it among the other entries.
         | 
         | It sucks that people are learning the hard way of their
         | incredibly secure but unrecoverable methods. It's also a shame
         | that there are probably countless instances of this and so a
         | considerable amount of bitcoin is just totally lost and out of
         | circulation, permanently.
        
           | piracy1 wrote:
           | > It sucks that people are learning the hard way of their
           | incredibly secure but unrecoverable methods. It's also a
           | shame that there are probably countless instances of this and
           | so a considerable amount of bitcoin is just totally lost and
           | out of circulation, permanently.
           | 
           | Unless you own a bunch of btc, then it's deflation.
           | 
           | Though yeah, very sad.
        
       | bdz wrote:
       | Deleted his tweet but Alex Stamos offered help for a 10% cut
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20210112200826/https://twitter.c...
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20210112142941/https://twitter.c...
       | 
       | >Um, for $220M in locked-up Bitcoin, you don't make 10 password
       | guesses but take it to professionals to buy 20 IronKeys and spend
       | six months finding a side-channel or uncapping. I'll make it
       | happen for 10%. Call me.
       | 
       | >We're not talking about some NSA-built crypto processor
       | installed on an SSBN, but an old $50 piece of consumer kit. There
       | is no way it's hardened against the last ten years of USENIX
       | papers that have never been used in practice.
       | 
       | Co-founder and former IronKey CEO also chimed in
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/davejevans/status/1349075762322702336
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/davejevans/status/1349083685165834240
       | 
       | >I was co-founder and CEO of IronKey. We had numerous
       | conversations with the NSA during the development of the
       | products. If the person is using the first generation of IronKey
       | before we sold the company to Imation, it will be very
       | challenging.
       | 
       | >A good first step is to try to image the NAND flash. Then it
       | will not be destroyed. You can certainly try to brute force the
       | AES encrypted contents. It's CBC mode AES by the way. Keys
       | generated by FIPS compliant RNG. See you in 1,000 years.
        
         | randompwd wrote:
         | How annoying that Alex Stamos deleted both tweets when it
         | became apparent to others he was talking nonsense.
         | 
         | > >We're not talking about some NSA-built crypto processor
         | installed on an SSBN, but an old $50 piece of consumer kit.
         | There is no way it's hardened against the last ten years of
         | USENIX papers that have never been used in practice
         | 
         | I don't have much hope for his twitter byline:
         | 
         | > Trustworthy tech at the Stanford Internet Observatory
         | 
         | Obviously not trustworthy if he's deleting tweets which show
         | him in a negative light - i.e. talking authoritatively out of
         | his arse on subjects which more informed people call him out
         | on. And then deleting any evidence of it.
        
         | huac wrote:
         | Area men talk book
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | Yes, and for that kind of money Ehrlich Bachman would take 5%
         | to let you crash at his place while you figured out how to
         | crack the password.
        
         | pjkundert wrote:
         | I know David. If he's saying it, then it's very likely true.
         | Smartest guy I know...
        
           | meowster wrote:
           | "very challenging" [?] impossible
           | 
           | It would be very challenging for ne to build an app, for many
           | people on HN, it would be trivial.
        
         | bawolff wrote:
         | CEO of crypto company claiming their product is secure isn't
         | super meaningful. It might be true, but they would probably say
         | that regardless.
         | 
         | That said, side channels may not be that relavant if you're
         | starting from a place of having to guess the key. Usually
         | that's more about leaking secrets, not bypassing the encryption
         | from a cold start state.
        
       | NKosmatos wrote:
       | The wallet is stored in a Kingston IronKey [0] secure USB flash
       | drive. The hardware encrypted USB allows you to enter 10 times a
       | password before its rendered useless. It has hardware tampering
       | and you can't make an image of it so that you can try more times.
       | If you put the password wrong 10 times you lose all the data but
       | you can erase/reformat the drive and still use it. Original tweet
       | of Stefan:
       | https://twitter.com/justmoon/status/1349069290587058177
       | 
       | [0] https://www.ironkey.com/en-US/
        
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