[HN Gopher] Software That Sucks Less
___________________________________________________________________
Software That Sucks Less
Author : jhallenworld
Score : 143 points
Date : 2021-01-12 19:11 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (suckless.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (suckless.org)
| tathougies wrote:
| Runit is amazing, and a great replacement for standard init on
| embedded systems
| arp242 wrote:
| Yes, but it's not part of suckless.
| jonatron wrote:
| Slock is the only one I use, but it's great.
| jezze wrote:
| I see a lot of people here complain about their toxic community.
| This was always the worst thing about suckless and it put a lot
| of people off about trying to engage and help out, including me.
| Luckily the most toxic of them all left a few years ago now and
| the mailing list is now a lot better compared to how it used to
| be. I'm not on irc anymore so dont know about the conversations
| happening there but I hope it also has become better. Its
| interesting how one persons bad influence can throw shade on an
| entire community. Most of them are really nice.
| zamalek wrote:
| It boggles the mind that developers, who believe that software
| should be minimal and do one thing well, attach toxic political
| agendas to their software[1] for no good reason. From a pragmatic
| standpoint Nazism (and all forms of racism) is pointless
| expenditure of mental resources and over-complicates life in
| general; which seems to conflict pretty strongly with their
| claimed ethos for software.
|
| [1]: https://twitter.com/kuschku/status/1156488420413362177
| eznzt wrote:
| Ever heard of codes of conduct?
| zamalek wrote:
| Sure, but I'm referring to a developer community who
| specifically aims to create "software that does one thing and
| one thing only." Having a political agenda is doing another
| thing.
| eznzt wrote:
| They don't shove that political agenda into their software,
| do they? It's just something they do as a group of friends.
| caeril wrote:
| You're living about ten years in the past.
|
| Kicking contributors out of open source projects, or dis-
| inviting speakers from technical conferences due to their
| _purely personal_ opinions has been going on for a while
| now.
|
| You don't need to act on wrongthink to get unpersoned by
| the mob.
|
| This has, of course, led to a situation where there are
| still a bunch of nazis, misogynists, etc, in our
| profession and communities, but they've learned to STFU
| and/or engage with much better OPSEC. So now you'll never
| actually know. Out of sight, out of mind.
|
| (to stay somewhat on-topic, yes, suckless, and dwm in
| particular, is awesome)
| paedubucher wrote:
| Please also consider looking at the other picture of the same
| conference: https://suckless.org/conferences/2017/
|
| "But Hitler also started his movement in the Bierkeller!!!1"
| ;-)
| combo6000 wrote:
| --- sck lSS ---
| bitwize wrote:
| Actually it makes perfect sense.
|
| In order to truly democratize access to computers, you must
| meet your users where they are. That means you have to put in a
| lot of hard work and abandon your academic elitist norms of
| "elegance" in favor of _empathy_. The real world is messy, your
| users have messy minds, so your software is going to be
| accordingly complex and messy. Embrace this. Your users will be
| better off for it.
|
| Empathy is inimical to the Unix philosophy. "Do one thing and
| do it well" forces the user to cobble solutions together out of
| the tools they have lying around, and not all of them can do
| this. This causes stress. The empathetic programmer seeks to
| minimize stress by putting everything the user may wish to do
| within their reach, the unempathetic programmer just doesn't
| care. If you can't understand the system on its own terms,
| well, sucks to be you. This creates a hierarchy of haves and
| have-nots: power users, hackers, and the l33t who can engage
| with the system on its own terms, and "lusers" who cannot
| engage with it meaningfully at all, which suits the power users
| just fine -- that's the endgame of Unix-philosophy
| fundamentalism.
|
| Nazism and fascism are political philosophies embraced by
| unempathetic people, so it's no surprise that the empathy-
| deficient Unix-philosophy hardliners also turn out to be Nazis.
| transmogrifex wrote:
| git gud scrub
| arp242 wrote:
| Congratulations, you've made the most ridiculous comment I've
| ever seen on HN. I can't stop laughing.
|
| The only lack of empathy I see here is a failure in
| understanding that not everyone uses computers in the same
| way as you prefer. That's okay, we're all different. You can
| do your thing and what works for you, and I'll do mine and
| what works for me.
|
| Signed.
|
| One of those unempathetic Unix types and Nazi.
| paedubucher wrote:
| I smirked a bit when I saw that picture, because the camo
| trousers and the bald heads look a bit edgy in that context.
| But hiking with torches is nothing strange here, at least not
| in Switzerland. We often do this in the winter, for example
| when walking to a Christmas dinner together with all the
| employees from the company.
| monopoledance wrote:
| In Germany this has a very clear Gschmackle and is not a
| common activity. Unless you are a Nazi. Then it's all about
| Fackelmarsche, of course.
| nix23 wrote:
| >But hiking with torches is nothing strange here, at least
| not in Switzerland.
|
| Yes true, and half of the males have the Springerstiefel
| (from the militaryservice) on, because they have no other
| watertight shoes at home.
| zamalek wrote:
| Is calling a mail server "Wolfsschanze" also common in
| Switzerland?
| arp242 wrote:
| Going from a single host name to "literal Nazis!" is quite
| the leap. And everything else like "they walked with
| torches, ergo they must be Nazis" is not even leap, but
| just outright BS.
| bitwize wrote:
| They also railed against "cultural marxism" which is a
| dogwhistle phrase coined and used by -- wait for it --
| the Nazis.
|
| When you take together all the fashy things they do, it
| kind of establishes a pattern that maaaaybe they _don 't_
| believe in brotherhood and equality.
| arp242 wrote:
| Like I said, there's some context to that; quoting from
| the thread:
|
| _" I took some more time to read it up and from what I
| could see, I found that indeed cultural marxism has
| become more of a political slogan rather than a normal
| theoretical term in the USA.
|
| Here in Germany the term "Kulturmarxismus" is much less
| politically charged from what I can see and thus I was
| surprised to get this response after I just had
| "translated" this term into English. It might be a lesson
| to first get some background on how this might be
| perceived internationally, however, it is a gigantic task
| for every term that might come around to you.
|
| So to reiterate my question, what term could be better
| used instead? :)"_
|
| I don't speak German well enough to really have an
| opinion on the veracity of the claims here, but I see no
| reason to immediately assume the worst or to doubt that
| this is how _this particular person_ intended to use this
| term. People get confused about language all the time,
| and I 'd rather look at the full context instead of
| getting all hung up on a single term.
|
| This is not an endorsement of those views - far from it -
| but I really take issue how people just just to the worst
| possible conclusions on things like this.
|
| [1]:
| https://lobste.rs/s/nf3xgg/i_am_leaving_llvm#c_lfctpe
| paedubucher wrote:
| No, that's not common. I guess that their humor is beyond
| edgy for most people. A related page is cat-v.org, which
| contains similar edgy jokes (see "Herrensystem 9"
| http://glenda.cat-v.org/gallery/)
| bitwize wrote:
| Dropping casual fash references means you probably are
| fash. We've moved on from not taking edgelord Nazi
| references seriously since the late 2000s.
|
| I knew suckless were assholes whose software philosophy
| was unworkable in the real world, but their casual nazism
| just makes me want to avoid them more.
| skissane wrote:
| The fact that it also jokes about Erich Honecker makes it
| seem like it is more about a like for bad taste jokes
| than a like for Nazism.
|
| East German Communism and Nazism were both odious, but
| they are largely incompatible forms of odiousnesses.
| vlovich123 wrote:
| The "do one thing and do it well ethos" is a UNIX academic
| philosophy, specifically around command line tools. Most
| software neither write code like that nor necessarily ascribe
| to such a philosophy.
|
| I can both hate the ideology and accept the software as having
| utility for me (not that I think I've used any of it, but in
| principle I have no problem with people being fascinated by
| TempleOS even though I am against a lot of the things the
| author has stated he stands for).
| imiric wrote:
| Great tools and philosophy on software. I think their political
| views and whatever online drama they're involved in is hardly
| relevant to my enjoyment of their software.
|
| st is my favorite terminal and surf my favorite web browser. It
| does take some effort to add the features you need and to keep
| them updated, but once everything is in place they're a joy to
| use.
|
| The development on surf has stagnated in recent years, a few
| sites are unusable for me and the performance is terrible
| compared to mainstream browsers, but the simplicity and
| customization more than make up for it.
|
| surf would make a great base to build a simple browser for the
| masses, if a competent C developer would polish some of these
| issues and added a more user friendly UI, while still staying
| true to the suckless philosophy. But so far unfortunately I
| haven't seen a particular fork pick up steam.
| boogies wrote:
| > a simple browser for the masses [with] more user friendly UI
|
| I think you mean GNOME Web/Epiphany. They both use
| libwebkit2gtk (https://webkitgtk.org/) as a base (as does
| luakit, a fairly simple and customizable browser that I'll
| probably switch to if/when Palemoon breaks Pentadactyl).
| imiric wrote:
| I've tried Epiphany, but it's still too bloated for my
| preferences, not customizable enough and I'd like to keep
| GNOME packages out of my system. :)
|
| Luakit is more to my liking, and I think I gave it a try a
| few years ago but can't remember what put me off about it. At
| first glance it has features I don't need like adblocking (I
| use a DNS blocker on my router) and tabs, but it's promising.
| I'll give it another try, thanks.
|
| I've also tried a few of these libwebkitgtk wrappers like
| qutebrowser, dwb, lariza, uzbl, etc. but they all had some
| drawbacks compared to surf.
|
| And I can't say I trust the Palemoon or Waterfox developers
| to maintain a Firefox fork. It's a gargantuan job, which is
| why I prefer the relative simplicity of the WebKit wrappers.
| Ideally I'd like to switch to a simpler rendering engine as
| well, but sadly the modern web is built with WebKit
| compatibility in mind.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| the strange nazism aside which is bad enough I honestly think
| their programming philosophy sucks.
|
| Why is it sensible to configure a software in C and having to
| recompile it every time I make a change? Patching software
| through diffs is error prone and you basically have to fiddle
| around with the order as to not accidentally mess up your entire
| program, it makes the software basically non-extensible in a sane
| way because there's no interface between extension and core code.
| The line number limits on code also incentivize spaghetti code.
| If you want software that sucks less you don't need fewer line
| numbers, you need good program structure and design.
| tathougies wrote:
| Nazism?
| zarkov99 wrote:
| You know, one day we might see real Nazis but we won't have a
| word for them anymore.
| recursive wrote:
| Elsewhere in the thread, it's noted that they maintain a mail
| server that's named after some nazi stronghold or something.
| LukeShu wrote:
| Not a mail server, an individual person's laptop.
|
| _> these mails originate from a host called
| "wolfsschanze", which appears to be the laptop a certain
| Laslo Hunhold works from (their conf organizer?)_
|
| -- the tweet in the thread that you're mentioning
| necrotic_comp wrote:
| It's probably just poor humor, but it doesn't reflect well
| on them.
| fossuser wrote:
| I'm less likely to assume humor given what's going on in
| politics.
|
| You can think marxism sucks (I do) without torchlight
| marches and nazi naming schemes.
|
| The latter is something else.
| MajesticHobo2 wrote:
| In addition to that, "Cultural Marxism" doesn't just
| refer to Marxism. It's an antisemitic canard used pretty
| much exclusively by the far right.
| recursive wrote:
| FWIW this was all several years ago. I don't know if the
| mail server still exists with the same name.
|
| And I still don't know what's wrong with a torchlight
| hike/march. (They call it a hike, you call it a march) It
| sounds like something I'd do.
| varjag wrote:
| They did Tiki torch march a couple weeks after
| Charlottesville, which am sure is just another
| unfortunate coincidence. Can happen to anyone!
| flukus wrote:
| They did it in Germany, where Charlottesville was likely
| a 30 second news clip that everyone forgot about.
|
| Stop with the cultural imperialism, race relations in the
| US are rather unique.
| varjag wrote:
| I am in Europe, it was top news for many days.
| fossuser wrote:
| Maybe it's just wildly bad self-awareness mixed with
| being obnoxious, but maybe it's not:
| https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/12/us/white-nationalists-
| tiki-to...
|
| The torches are used as a symbol - might be nothing, but
| paired with speaking out against cultural marxism it's
| more likely to be intentional than it otherwise would be.
|
| I don't know, but I'm not giving them the benefit of the
| doubt since the mail server is fairly explicit if true.
|
| When people tell you who they are, believe them.
| Rotten194 wrote:
| I think they're referring to this?:
| https://twitter.com/kuschku/status/1156488420413362177
|
| disclaimer: found on Google, unsure of context / if these
| people are core developers, just sharing for those who like
| me were also confused
| generalizations wrote:
| Sounds like there's too much being read into it.
|
| I use st, it's one of the best terminal emulators I've
| found, and I'm not going to stop using it just because some
| possibly-associated dev made a kinda-sorta-tasteless joke
| when they named some random server.
| arp242 wrote:
| It's just a social event they did. Nothing to it. The
| conversation continued a bit with a discussion on what
| exactly what means with "cultural marxism", and it's not as
| bas as this snippet might make it appear. But can't add
| context lest people give the benefit of the doubt, ey?
| dijit wrote:
| I actually like suckless software and I'm a little (lot)
| annoyed by the overwhelming "sides" of politics,
| especially the left because a lot of US tech comes from a
| left wing belief and sometimes people online beat me over
| the head with it and make me annoyed.
|
| But, to be clear, there are three things here:
|
| 1) They're doing a Tiki Torch walk, during a time when it
| was heavily politicised.
|
| 2) They're adapting Nazi slogans as hostnames
|
| 3) They're denigrating "Cultural Marxism".
|
| Any one of these alone I would probably defend, but 3 is
| a pattern and not a good one.
| arp242 wrote:
| > 1) They're doing a Tiki Torch walk, during a time when
| it was heavily politicised.
|
| No it wasn't; just in the US. Not everyone in the world
| is obsessed with the latest drama in the US.
|
| I've done many torchwalks with scouts. In fact, they're
| used to celebrate the end of the Nazi occupation in my
| home town every single year on Sept 18th. Should we stop
| doing this because some yahoos on the other side of the
| world used some torches in some far-right march? This is
| "Hitler has a moustache, you have a moustache, ergo you
| must be a Nazi"-kind of logic.
|
| > 2) They're adapting Nazi slogans as hostnames
|
| A private server belonging to a single person, not the
| project. I have asked him plainly and directly about that
| and he avoided the question. I am also not impressed by
| this, but that doesn't make him a Nazi, and it certainly
| doesn't make everyone involved in the project a Nazi.
|
| > 3) They're denigrating "Cultural Marxism".
|
| A single person is (same one as the hostname). And like I
| said, there is a lot more to that conversation than the
| screenshot makes it out to be as there was a lot of
| confusion about what's intended with "cultural marxism".
| I really recommend you read the entire conversation in
| full, and while I don't personally agree with their take,
| it's also really not that bad.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| boogies wrote:
| Strange arguable libel aside, you don't have to compile your wm
| or terminal every time you make a change. There are awesomewm
| (and echinus and spectrwm and Qtile et al.), and xterm and
| GNOME Terminal and guake and konsole and xfce terminal and
| Terminator and Terminology and Tilda and Yakuake and rxvt et
| al., many al.: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/List_of_app
| lications/Ut....
|
| Setting all those aside, you can configure any decent text
| editor to run `make` whenever you save, and I dare you to find
| any combination of patches for any single suckless software
| (except surf) that takes more than 1000 milliseconds to compile
| with tcc on a computer you use on a regular basis (should work
| for any normal desk/laptop from the past decade or two).
| drhastings wrote:
| Have you tried it?
|
| I've not experienced any of those problems while using dwm for
| the past several years.
|
| Where I wasn't able to find an existing diff supporting my
| desired customizations I found the code easy to understand and
| extend myself.
|
| Find me some spaghetti code in the codebase and your point
| might be a little more convincing to me.
| Spivak wrote:
| Yeah, I'm not really sure if DRYing yourself to death is a good
| approach to software development. Ansible is really really easy
| to hack on and it's ~1.2mil LOC which probably horrifies the
| suckless devs.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| I suspect a good deal of that 1.2M lines is in modules, isn't
| it? Rather like how people remark on how many lines are in
| Linux and overlook that it's overwhelmingly in drivers and
| the actual core system is much smaller.
| alex_smart wrote:
| Have you even taken a look at their source code? I have read
| plenty of open source projects and suckless's code is about as
| unspaghettilike as it gets. I find their approach to
| programming a beautiful contrast to the piles of garbage upon
| other piles of garbage style over-engineered approach I have
| seen elsewhere.
| raspyberr wrote:
| Well stuff like dwm and st should get reconfigured rarely so
| this doesn't matter. And it recompiles blazingly fast anyway.
| flukus wrote:
| Yep, my dwm re-compiles, installs and restarts faster than a
| theme change in gnome.
| MayeulC wrote:
| I quite like suckless software, unfortunately it is very
| X-centric.
|
| Not sure what their view on Wayland is?
| spijdar wrote:
| I can't speak for the group, but my guess is in practice they
| would dislike the Wayland ecosystem. A cursory google seems to
| show this too.
|
| A lot of their tooling and favored software works by being as
| minimal as possible while doing its one primary purpose well.
| They dislike monoliths like systemd, pulseaudio, networkmanager
| etc. which do many tasks. The wayland protocol itself is fairly
| minimalist, which they seem to like, but to practically use it
| you end up requiring a monolith compositor/window server.
|
| Further, Wayland fundamentally doesn't support running e.g. in
| a non-compositing mode, and requires more cruft to draw to the
| screen vs just using xlib.
|
| At the end of the day, all the functionality that Xorg provided
| has to be served by something. And when you're not using one of
| the big boy software stacks like Gnome or KDE, that means re-
| implementing the wheel, or copying from another project like
| wlroots. I suspect they prefer the status quo in that Xorg is
| at least proven and fairly battle hardened software.
|
| Just idly guessing, though.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| It kinda cuts both ways, I suspect. Xorg is itself a huge
| monolithic mess, but it takes all the messy bits into itself
| and lets you extend it with nice small programs (ex. window
| managers, screenshot programs, keybinding programs,
| whatever). Wayland is in some ways actually better because it
| removes the massive central mess that is the X server... but
| then forces every other component to deal with those things,
| and does so in ways that to date play badly with
| composability in the software (ex. now a "window manager" is
| a compositor and must do most of what the X server did
| before, _and_ you can 't factor out things like screen
| capture because that functionality is restricted).
| hnlmorg wrote:
| There's a lot of CLI tools in suckless too. I quite like their
| IRC client https://tools.suckless.org/ii/
| jolmg wrote:
| Some projects seem missing from the site. For example, this used
| to be the home of wmi[1] and wmii[2], the ancestors of i3.
|
| There's quite a bit to see if one browses the site through the
| WaybackMachine.
|
| I could've sworn it was also the home of i3 at one point, but I
| can't find it in the history, so maybe I'm mistaken about that. I
| also thought all 3 were started by the same author, but I'm not
| so sure anymore. EDIT: It was different people. Anselm R. Garbe
| started wmi and wmii, Michael Stapelberg started i3.
|
| [1]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20090315090203/http://wmi.suckle...
|
| [2]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20090315090203/http://wmii.suckl...
| tfolbrecht wrote:
| You're probably thinking of dwm. Another great tiling window
| manager.
| [deleted]
| asciimov wrote:
| I've been using both dwm and dmenu for about a year now. I enjoy
| them as they do their thing and get out of the way.
| stevefolta wrote:
| I switched to dwm a couple of weeks ago after using Ratpoison
| for years and years, and I'm super happy with it. It solves the
| things that bugged me about Ratpoison. The one feature I was
| missing was very easy to add myself (the equivalent of "set
| padding" in monocle mode).
| paedubucher wrote:
| I've been using dwm since 2010 and and still don't consider
| changing that. I use st at home (qterminal at work). dwm in
| combination with dmenu, slstatus, and slock runs fast on every
| machine with minimal resources and doesn't waste a pixel of
| your screen.
| boogies wrote:
| Same, plus st, which doesn't even do tmux's (or their tool
| scroll1's) scrollback thing and get a scrollbar or extraneous
| scrolling key bindings in the way (unless you apply the
| scrollback patch2).
|
| 1https://git.suckless.org/scroll/file/README.html
| 2https://st.suckless.org/patches/scrollback/
| jhallenworld wrote:
| I recently found out about them for "tabbed" (in the tools
| project)- converts xterm into a tabbed terminal emulator.
| leephillips wrote:
| I love their software and their attitude.
|
| I've been using dwm for years and it's the perfect window
| manager. Configuration by editing the header and recompiling
| makes sense when compilation takes under a second.
|
| I'm not much of a C programmer, but I like that I can sort of
| understand their code. A window manager in 2000 lines means that
| if I wanted to I could understand how the whole thing works.
|
| It's all refreshing, and even, I would say, beautiful. I like
| that my environment uses very little memory, leaving my ram for
| actually doing things.
| Kuinox wrote:
| Wonderful.
|
| dwm, dmenu, and st.
|
| Good naming is required to have code of good quality. These name
| are too short, they lack of clarity.
|
| A good name is concise, give the point, and is pronoucable.
| KingMachiavelli wrote:
| I love the names:
|
| dynamic window manager, dynamic menu, suckless terminal
|
| The names are all very clear once you know the naming
| convention.
| koenigdavidmj wrote:
| dwm: Don't care what the D stands for, but there are a bunch
| of X11 window managers ending in 'wm' so that's probably what
| this is too.
|
| dmenu: Since it's coming from the same place as dwm, it's
| probably a menu app that goes well with it.
|
| st isn't obvious, I agree, but it makes sense to give a short
| name to the program you use most frequently.
| makapuf wrote:
| I can agree, but the terminal emulator is something I very
| rarely launch from the command line. I run it from a menu,
| or an icon. Maybe with keyboard but then its meta+T
| Kuinox wrote:
| The origin of the name are clear, but the name itself should
| describe what is it because these name can be find out of
| context.
|
| These names can't be easily understandood without context.
| And these name will be found without context: For exemple,
| you may meet this name in a process list. In this case you
| don't understand why the process "dwm" is eating a lot of gpu
| power.
|
| A variable name can be short, because it's name will be found
| in it's context.
| asymptosis wrote:
| I guess you're not a fan of "du", "df" or "su" either.
| Kuinox wrote:
| No I'm not a fan of them either, I forgot their name all
| the times and need to google them every year when I need
| to cleanup my seedbox.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| Suckless tools are meant for hardcore *nix hackers who
| already know how to look up this information, so no, the
| naming doesn't really matter. Anyone who knows how to use
| the ps command will also know the man command, so if
| someone wants to know what that dwm process is, they can
| just do "man dwm".
| Kuinox wrote:
| "My name is not bad, every words that is in it can be
| found in the latin dictionary."
| geofft wrote:
| Is that a convention, or just what they stand for? (Do the
| window manager and the menu suck, because they don't have the
| "s" prefix? Is st static because it doesn't have the "d"
| prefix? Why do we abbreviate "terminal" but not "menu" / why
| not follow the established abbreviation of "term" as in
| xterm, dtterm, eterm, etc.? How come the "s" prefix in sprop
| and sselp stands for "simple" instead of "suckless"?)
| Shared404 wrote:
| It's enough of a convention that after knowing it I can
| read through their list and know what I'm looking at.
|
| Seems like enough to me.
| chacha2 wrote:
| Wait till you hear what the rest of the English language is
| doing...
| paedubucher wrote:
| Is plan9 a good name for an operating system? It's named after
| (arguably) the worst movie ever. It's even bad as a trash
| movie. Is the code quality of plan9 bad?
| nix23 wrote:
| And Linux is named after a rude developer..or Washing-
| soap..who knows. An Oracle is the opposite you want of a
| Database, but Intel made a really good promise for others
| (Meltdown's). Google the searchengine is written wrong ->
| Goggles and and and ;)
| kubanczyk wrote:
| > Google the searchengine is written wrong -> Goggles
|
| A ha! One of today's Lucky 10000... https://xkcd.com/1053/
| officeplant wrote:
| Wait do you really think Google is referencing Goggles and
| not Googolplex?
| Aeronwen wrote:
| Googol 10^100 not Googolplex 10^(10^100).
|
| Googol or goggles, it's still just a typo someone decided
| to keep in mind for a name.
| nix23 wrote:
| Yeah they try to rewrite history i think, but if you look
| at the old logo the G looks like Goggles, it's also more
| logic to call your search-engine goggle, and not a
| number, but anything is better then BackRub.
| Kuinox wrote:
| Are you comparing an operating system with a window manager ?
|
| We name products with odd name because they are products, you
| want to be different.
|
| Parts of this product are rarely named differently, a
| windshield is still called a windshield, not a "wdsd".
| nix23 wrote:
| >a windshield is still called a windshield, not a "wdsd".
|
| Embraer calls it's Side-Windows in the Cockpit DV's (Direct
| Vision)
|
| SSD's have no Disk.
|
| My WM is called i3 my File-manger Thunar or MC..Firefox
| whatever that is, git? Java? Go? C the successor of B..
| recursive wrote:
| I assumed the D stood for drive.
| nix23 wrote:
| Hmm, it looks from this article all three are used:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive
|
| >sometimes called a solid-state device or a solid-state
| disk
| Kuinox wrote:
| SSD litteraly mean Solid State Drive.
|
| Embrear does marketing, adding shiny names make it look
| better, it's like retina, it mean nothing but people
| think it mean it's a good screen.
|
| IMO i3 is badly named, I did read it multiple time _in
| context_ and I only found out later that it was a window
| manager..
|
| git, java, go and c and are pronouncable name and are
| most of the time in context.
|
| It's funny that you put firefox in the middle, because
| when an old person I know started to use computers for
| his first time, I learned him to use Chrome. When I came
| back several week later, he was using Internet Explorer.
| Why ? Because it's called Internet Explorer and he forgot
| about chrome.
| nix23 wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive
|
| >sometimes called a solid-state device or a solid-state
| disk
|
| >and are most of the time in context.
|
| With git your are right
|
| >because when an old person I know started to use
| computers for his first time, I learned him to use
| Chrome.
|
| That's why you exchange the Chrome icon with the Internet
| explorer one, but let's just call everything Browser or
| WWW-Explorer ok?
|
| > I did read it multiple time _in context_ and I only
| found out later that it was a window manager..
|
| Then work on your internal memory system and don't blame
| others for it...btw i3 is also a Car, not that your even
| more confused next time when someone wants to show you a
| i3 in a Parking slot.
| MisterTea wrote:
| https://harmful.neocities.org/
| snarfy wrote:
| A good friend introduced me to suckless many years ago. he
| tried contributing but was shut down at ever turn. They are a
| very closed group.
| rectang wrote:
| This appears to an insider rant against suckless. It starts off
| like so:
|
| > clearing some things up re: cat-v
|
| > [context: this was produced for a particular community. if
| this doesnt mean anything to you, dont worry]
|
| > i am not within cat-v, i.e. "one of them" or a particular
| friend of anyone within it, but it was quite formative for me
| (on the technical side) from when i was about 14 years old, and
| i would like to provide the requisite context to view the whole
| ordeal charitably, and clear up some misconceptions suckless
|
| > first of all, suckless are shitheels. fuck em six ways to
| sunday.
| jd3 wrote:
| (not the OP of that site, but here are my 2C/)
|
| I started really getting into computers and open source
| software around 2010/2011 and cat-v (I was first introduced to
| golang through uriel pereira's[0] proselytization) and suckless
| were both a pretty big inspiration to me at the time.
|
| I used dwm/st for years, but have since transitioned back to
| using ctwm/xterm as I find them more approachable and easier to
| use/extend. xterm may be "bloated and unmaintainable" according
| to the suckless community[1], but it has low latency, a pretty
| simple config, solid UTF-8 support, and is installed by default
| in most X11 environments that I use (I need to bounce around
| Windows/macOS/*bsd a lot).
|
| Personally, I think the biggest problem is that there is
| definitely a bit of ego involved in these respective
| communities. When I tried participating back in ~2011, rather
| than realizing I was an impressionable high schooler/teenage
| kid who could use a solid mentor to guide them through the
| fundamentals of X11/C/go/etc, I was instead basically laughed
| out of the irc channel which led me to never participate in
| their community again and instead just learn/work on projects
| on my own.
|
| I am still aesthetically interested in a lot of the
| cat-v/suckless software, but the
| politics/drama/exclusivity/negativity of it all (particularly
| in the early 2010s) steered me away from ever really
| participating in their respective communities.
|
| I am also less interested in tooling/ui/customization than I
| was back then, so I basically just tend to use whatever program
| gets the job done rather than obsessing over
| theory/purity/minimalism. I don't have a problem with those who
| do care about these things (I am not trying to criticize
| suckless as they do do a lot of great work), it's just no
| longer something I think about as much.
|
| [0]: http://uriel.cat-v.org/
|
| [1]: https://st.suckless.org/
|
| http://cs.gettysburg.edu/~duncjo01/sites/berlinblue/
| arp242 wrote:
| > I was an impressionable high schooler/teenage kid who could
| use a solid mentor to guide them through the fundamentals of
| X11/C/go/etc, I was instead basically laughed out of the irc
| channel
|
| I think people there can definitely be jerks sometimes, and I
| don't really like the negativity either.
|
| But on the other hand, not _every_ place and community on the
| internet needs to be welcoming to teenagers and mentor them
| through the fundamentals of X11 /C/Go.
|
| I just wish people were a bit less of a jerk about it. Then
| again, I _have_ said this nicely to people a few times over
| the years ( "hey, cool you're interested, but note this is
| really intended for expert users"), and it's about a 50/50
| toss-up about whether or not you'll get insults and an
| aggressive reply back. One time this guy got so triggered
| over this that he went to several subs to tell everyone what
| a horrible person I was just for (nicely!) explaining that
| they didn't really seem to be the intended target audience.
|
| Turns out that being a programmer means you're obliged to
| help strangers out on the internet, according to some anyway
| *shrug*.
|
| > I basically just tend to use whatever program gets the job
| done rather than obsessing over theory/purity/minimalism
|
| That's pretty much why I use dwm; I use a hacked-up version
| and I somehow managed to lose the source code for that 2
| years ago (not sure how...) but it's okay, because it Just
| Works(tm). It's very stable, never changes, and I never need
| to look at it or worry that an update will break anything or
| will move things around ("now where did that button go?!")
|
| For me, suckless is very much a pragmatical thing, not a
| "minimalist ideological" thing.
| musicale wrote:
| > they are cargo-cult idiots who do things like unironically
| create a linux distribution with static linking as a design
| goal and namesake
|
| I've always wondered at the docker images that a) include their
| own shared libraries and b) typically only run a single
| process. Seems like static linking would be fine.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-01-12 23:00 UTC)