[HN Gopher] Signal Fork with WhatsApp Migration
___________________________________________________________________
Signal Fork with WhatsApp Migration
Author : lsblk
Score : 266 points
Date : 2021-01-12 09:16 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| gadders wrote:
| Does Signal do group chats like Telegram does?
| Nursie wrote:
| I've never used telegram so can't tell you how similar they
| are, but yes, signal does group chats.
| newscracker wrote:
| Signal also provides shareable links or QR codes for inviting
| people to groups now (this feature wasn't there before, but was
| introduced some months ago).
| bildung wrote:
| No, the group chats in Signal are encrypted.
| gadders wrote:
| Zing. You got me :-)
| robjan wrote:
| The only disadvantage is that Signal reveals the phone number
| of other group participants. Of course everyone could use
| burner numbers but, in practice, that's not very likely.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| In many countries you can't get burner number since every
| SIM must be registered with your ID.
|
| This phone number requirement is the biggest letdown ...
| robertlagrant wrote:
| Very good.
| teekert wrote:
| Fascinating and it sounds doable to me. However, not to my mother
| in law and most other people I know, which is the group that
| would require a method like this, but then it should be much
| easier.
| john4532452 wrote:
| This same argument is made over and over in many threds. I
| don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Even
| mobiles and social media were totally new to the older
| generation but they got used to it. How is this any different ?
| ialexpw wrote:
| Using mobiles/social media is a lot easier to grasp than the
| steps under "How to do it". Copying files around a mobile
| file system and building a whole Android application is
| completely different to what you are talking about.
| gegtik wrote:
| I think he's talking specifically about this migration tool,
| not generally about using Signal as a chat app
| berkes wrote:
| I see this here as a 'first step'. The second step either
| upstream integrating it, or it becoming an own app on the
| appstores.
| Spearchucker wrote:
| Please not the latter. There are sooo many apps out there
| where you wonder if it's a honeypot, has more or less
| functionality, or is a completely different product. All
| because the name is similar, and the app icon the same or
| imperceptibly different.
| berkes wrote:
| I doo don't hope that is the "solution" that will arise,
| but it also depends on the willingness and ability of
| Signal to include it.
|
| There is demand. If (for legal, security or UX reasons)
| Signal cannot offer a solution to that demand, others will
| step in.
| telesilla wrote:
| Anyone know how to get their elderly parents to switch? Whatsapp
| has us cornered and they know it.
| tyfon wrote:
| Just ask them?
|
| My parents (and my extended family + friends) have been using
| signal since the Snowden leaks.
|
| All I had to do was ask :) It's not really a hard app to use
| either, I had a few calls from them when they introduced the
| PIN stuff and when I or someone else have switched phone but
| it's not comprehensible. My parents are closing in on 80 now.
| neltnerb wrote:
| And those are also very good questions since the PIN thing
| was new and new things could indicate being hacked, and
| people changing their public key is a thing that Signal does
| seem to try to de-emphasize as a strong security signal so
| I'm almost more impressed they noticed it and were concerned.
|
| It sounds like your parents are very unusually observant! I
| have had coworkers much younger than that who cannot be
| bothered to read messages like that.
| FlyingSnake wrote:
| I had a video call with them via WhatsApp, and guided them
| through the whole process on Dad's phone. After some hickups
| they were able to setup Signal on both of the devices.
| eloisant wrote:
| It isn't harder to use than Whatsapp. It's actually simpler,
| because it has less useless bells and whistles.
|
| All you need to do is convince them that it's for their good,
| if they can agree on that then the technicality isn't
| difficult.
| WilTimSon wrote:
| It is a bit harder to use but, what's more important, not as
| feature-rich and doesn't have literal billions of users. We
| are looking at the issue of getting someone to switch
| selfishly, convinced it's about them not being able to figure
| things out. Instead, it might be that they want a more
| polished app or one that has _all_ of their contacts, not
| just us.
| tomatocracy wrote:
| There are a few areas which are harder to use like backups.
|
| I suspect one of the most difficult to address is getting it
| to successfully evade the random vendor-built aggressive
| battery saving settings in Android. WhatsApp is usually
| whitelisted from those so "just works". If you don't do
| similar things for Signal, it will stop picking messages
| up/notifying you after a day or two of inactivity.
| Lopiolis wrote:
| The backup issue makes Signal infeasible for me to suggest
| to family/friends as a serious alternative. It's just not
| up for discussion. People care about preserving their chat
| histories and I'm not about to put myself in a position
| where I'm at fault when that stuff goes lost because
| something or other. There's a lot of sentimental value
| there that is non-negotiable.
|
| Unfortunately, that leaves me with ... nothing to recommend
| people switch to.
| ngrilly wrote:
| I have the exact same issue with Signal, which is sad,
| because it's perfect except for the lack automatic and
| encrypted cloud backup.
| isignal wrote:
| On that note, this feature -
| https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/1567 - to
| allow bulk saving of media to iOS photos also hasn't been
| addressed.
|
| Whatsapp allows media from specific chats to be auto
| saved to photos. It is a very important feature, not sure
| how these aren't making the priority bar.
| ViViDboarder wrote:
| Did Signal for Android drop Google Play Services? I thought
| they still supported push notifications through Google on
| Android unless you opted out or use a phone without Google
| Play.
| ledauphin wrote:
| have kids and tell them you'll send them photos via signal.
|
| I'm not kidding - it worked amazingly well for us.
| edent wrote:
| I sent the link to my elderly parents. They both installed it
| on their Android without a problem. Then I received a video
| call from my mum - she'd installed the desktop app by herself.
|
| So, get better parents?
| [deleted]
| rob74 wrote:
| That has always been one of the secrets of success: choose
| your parents wisely...
| koolba wrote:
| You joke, but the real world version of that exists and
| involves children and divorce proceedings.
| pimeys wrote:
| Mine too. And I tried the Signal video calls the first time
| with her, they work much better than Zoom or Jitsi! And she
| already knows how to use the app and I could uninstall
| WhatsApp. m
| madradavid wrote:
| Jesus!! ,that is just brutal
| [deleted]
| hans1729 wrote:
| told my father, 75, to install signal. he wrote me on signal
| five minutes later
| furyg3 wrote:
| Ironically my more elderly contacts added me on Signal nearly
| immediately after I sent a broadcast message to the WA users I
| chat with frequently, it was the younger contacts that I had
| more resistance from.
| mekoka wrote:
| I was surprised to see my dad and a few relatives ask me about
| Signal today and when I logged on, they were on it.
| denys_maksymov wrote:
| Why migrating to Signal when there is a much better alternative
| as Telegram?
| astrea wrote:
| The fact that law enforcement seems to have no issue getting
| Telegram messages is my guess.
| chalst wrote:
| About twice as many people express a preference for Signal as
| Telegram here:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25669864
| Fnoord wrote:
| Uses Approval voting. That poll doesn't show a negative
| preference (as in: what do you really _not_ want to run).
| ViViDboarder wrote:
| Because Telegram is not really an equivalent alternative for
| secure messaging.
|
| Telegram is much better for "chat room" type capabilities,
| because that's not what Signal does. Telegram, Discord, Matrix,
| Slack all have more robust large group features, but none of
| them are secure and private by default and none of them hide
| your social graph.
| fastball wrote:
| Telegram has various issues for the privacy concerned, namely
| that group chats are never E2EE and 1-to-1 chats are not
| encrypted by default, among other concerns[1].
|
| Also Telegram is not open-source.
|
| Also Telegram did some shenanigans with cryptocurrency a few
| years back[2].
|
| Telegram does have better UX than Signal though.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_(software)#Security
|
| [2]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_(software)#Telegram_O...
| lucideer wrote:
| > _Telegram is not open-source_
|
| The Telegram apps are GPL. Their server is (afaik) closed-
| source, but having an open source server implementation
| doesn't mean much for a centralised service without any
| server-switching support anyway, so no effective practical
| difference to Signal here in that regard.
|
| The E2E situation on Telegram is poor however.
| fastball wrote:
| I think the two things (open source servers and E2EE)
| dovetail together.
|
| If the E2EE situation is poor, what is happening on the
| backend with your data becomes more relevant.
| notorandit wrote:
| What went wrong with XMPP and federated servers?
| Kototama wrote:
| The UX.
| berkes wrote:
| And encryption, which is an addon and not the default.
|
| Also, XMPP is a good example of a 'victim' of embrace,
| extend, extinguish. I remember Facebook messenger, hyves
| chat, Google talk and briefly even WhatsApp, all in my
| desktop chat app. They all 'did' XMPP, but then removed
| federation, features or killed it entirely.
| w1nk wrote:
| XMPP never got its story together for mobile clients. Sure
| there are some configurations of XEPs that will eventually
| allow you a reasonable configuration that supports multi
| device, history, media, etc, but for whatever reason, gluing
| those pieces together into something sane has evaded our
| community.
| MattJ100 wrote:
| > for whatever reason, gluing those pieces together into
| something sane has evaded our community.
|
| Actually this is exactly what Snikket is doing:
| https://snikket.org/about/goals
|
| But in fact most servers are mobile friendly, and have been
| for many years. You can dig into the data at
| https://compliance.conversations.im/ (Conversations being the
| leading mobile XMPP client).
| upofadown wrote:
| In particular it never got its story together for iOS. ...
| and macOS more recently. It is quite good, on say, Android
| (Conversations). Rumour has it that XMPP is a lot more
| popular in parts of the world where Apple stuff is less
| popular. Those tens of thousands of XMPP servers are probably
| in those parts of the world.
|
| There is an active project working to improve things on the
| Apple side:
|
| * https://monal.im/
| MattJ100 wrote:
| Monal is active and improving, but I think Siskin has a
| slight edge right now: https://siskin.im/ (Siskin's macOS
| sibling is https://beagle.im/ ).
| f1refly wrote:
| Doesn't make any money. You can obviously use xmpp instead of
| joining the next silo.
| FDSGSG wrote:
| Signal doesn't make any money.
| pseudalopex wrote:
| Signal got $50M from Brian Acton.
| FDSGSG wrote:
| XSF gets donations too
| pseudalopex wrote:
| I don't think they ever got close to $50M.
| pseudalopex wrote:
| Nothing on Windows had voice and video for a long time but
| Google Talk. More and more people used Google Talk and
| Facebook. Facebook never federated. Good mobile support took a
| long time. Google defederated. Facebook and Google cut off
| other clients.
| notorandit wrote:
| I wish I knew the reasons...
| bitshifta wrote:
| Now if something similar can be done for iOS, that would be
| great...
| bitshifta wrote:
| also, the chat export feature in WhatsApp has been disabled for
| users in Germany, which makes migrating chat history even more
| of a challenge :(
| bravura wrote:
| Is there an API/application purely to archive my _entire_
| whatsapp, including voice messages? From an iPhone
| hojjat12000 wrote:
| I recently moved my gf from iOS to Android and searched all
| over the internet to see how I can move the WhatsApp database
| from iOS to whatsapp on Android!! You'd think whatsapp would
| let you do that! Long story short , there might be a way of
| doing that if you install an older version of it. I failed to
| transfer the data. But you can back it up as plain text using
| "share conversation" feature and then uploading or emailing it.
| fartcannon wrote:
| We should all just go back to IRC.
|
| Failing that, certainly Matrix is the best option?
| ViViDboarder wrote:
| These are different things. Signal is designed as a secure,
| more robust alternative to SMS/MMS.
|
| IRC is not even close to filling that role. It's not more
| robust nor more secure. At the same time it does several things
| that Signal doesn't. Signal, as a messenger, is not a "chat
| room" or "social network" in the same way that IRC, Matrix, and
| even Telegram function. There are. I thousand member rooms you
| can join. It's meant for secure, small group, communication.
|
| Maybe that will change and they'll broaden, but I would rather
| see them keep to their niche and do it well. I have no problem
| having one messenger app and another for "communities" of
| sorts.
| h_anna_h wrote:
| I thought that moxie was hostile against forks and said that he
| would not allow them to use his own servers?
| CSSmithy wrote:
| Anyone have an APK that they built and can share for this? It
| doesn't look like the author provided one.
| forgingahead wrote:
| Is there a way to get the Whatsapp messages on iOS? Years ago
| they were accessible via a sqlite DB, but it's been ages since I
| did it, and I can't find any online resources about this other
| than people shilling dodgy .exe apps.
| umanghere wrote:
| You can still pull the database from an iOS backup on your Mac
| or created from `idevicebackup2`.
|
| The file is named `1b6b187a1b60b9ae8b720c79e2c67f472bab09c0`,
| `275ee4a160b7a7d60825a46b0d3ff0dcdb2fbc9d`, or
| `7c7fba66680ef796b916b067077cc246adacf01d`.
| forgingahead wrote:
| Thanks very much! This does indeed work, for anyone else keen
| to do so using OSX:
|
| 1. Make sure you've recently backed up your iPhone
|
| 2. Open up terminal and $ open ~/Library/Application\
| Support/MobileSync/Backup
|
| 3. Pick the relevant Backup folder (look at the most recently
| updated column)
|
| 4. To find the files mentioned by umanghere, go to the folder
| with the relevant starting characters. Eg: 7c7xxx is in the
| '7c' folder.
|
| 5. Find the file and open using any SQLite browser. For OSX,
| this is a decent and simple option:
| https://sqlitebrowser.org/
|
| From there, once you figure out the tables, you can
| ostensibly write a script to also migrate your chats from
| Whatsapp to Signal.
|
| For media transfer, this may also be helpful (though I
| haven't tried it myself): https://apple.stackexchange.com/que
| stions/365950/accessing-w...
|
| I may write a script for this if I get a weekend free soon,
| but happy if anyone else does it as well.
| shilgapira wrote:
| You can export your message history for every chat, I believe
| including photos and videos. Just need to go to the Group Info
| screen and then scroll all the way to the bottom.
| okanesen wrote:
| Just as a side info: unfortunately this won't work in
| Germany, since that feature was disabled there.
| r00fus wrote:
| Why?
| raarts wrote:
| Wouldn't uninstall, switch to the US app store, and
| reinstall do the trick?
| blackbear_ wrote:
| Why a fork? Why not a pull request?
| teruakohatu wrote:
| I might have the wrong impression but Signal has always seemed
| to me to be uninterested in user requests. They are privicy
| first & user experience second.
|
| There have been lots of Signal forks with a variety of features
| the official client refuses to add or merge.
| theshrike79 wrote:
| And this is why I use Telegram, for them UX matters.
|
| Yes MTProto is not audited blah blah. I use IRC too and that
| has exactly butkus for encryption :D
| vmception wrote:
| People only ever mention Signal because of the security by
| default. Telegram does not have that, their encrypted rooms
| are something you have to go out of your way to create.
| carlos22 wrote:
| Thats true, Telegram has very good UX. But bullshit crypto
| with a closed server etc. :-(
| berkes wrote:
| Indeed: signal proves that good UX and good security can
| coexist.
|
| Telegram proves that to have even better UX, you need to
| sacrifice security (and privacy).
| kelnos wrote:
| I don't think the latter is true. It feels like the
| Signal team just isn't interested in taking on work (even
| work done by others) to improve the UX.
|
| I can understand that they have limited funding and want
| to focus on the security features first and foremost, but
| that makes it really hard for me to get some of my
| friends to use it.
|
| Having said that, I agree that Signal's UX is not _bad_ ,
| just that it could be better.
| [deleted]
| KraftKacke wrote:
| In signal you cant delete/forget contacts... And groups
| will haunt you to the end of days too. I started to
| strongly distrust signal after I learned that. It's meta
| information nonetheless and invites for identity fraud.
|
| But yeah, Telegram can't be trusted either. I hope
| matrix/element will replace both soon.
| adamcstephens wrote:
| Matrix needs better clients...
| neltnerb wrote:
| True story, I've been using Matrix with Element for a
| while. I don't use it for anything much because no one
| else is on it. Some friends and I have a groupchat on
| Signal and we decided it would be good to have a backup
| method to chat if Signal breaks (or to just move to for
| the reasons that there are, such as not being centralized
| by design).
|
| It took me at least twenty minutes to figure out how to
| add my friends to a room I created too long enough ago to
| have memorized the UI. And they added "Communities" which
| I created one of but cannot even tell what functionality
| it even provides.
|
| I don't know if that's a client issue or not but it seems
| like (maybe?) it's trying to be a social network in
| addition to a chat app? Some kind of adding in Discord
| functionality or something?
|
| I guess as long as I can not use social network features
| and still use it like I use Signal... to flexibly chat
| with whomever I know the ID of.
| anticensor wrote:
| MTProto has been audited _multiple times_.
| Arnt wrote:
| Well, sort of. They have their idea of what they want
| (approximately "security for the masses"), and if your pull
| request doesn't go in the same general direction they don't
| care about it. If it does, they're positivish but they still
| aren't eager about fixing your code.
|
| FWIW I've had one (very small thing) accepted and another
| not. That second wasn't a net positive if "security for the
| masses" is the only important goal.
| asddubs wrote:
| what was the thing that was rejected?
| Arnt wrote:
| I fixed handling of multiple SIM cards on MediaTek's
| forked Andoid, which had added multiple SIM support
| before Android itself did. There were bugs in the
| MediaTek code but Signal could be made to work. However,
| the code I wrote to make Signal work looked risky; it
| seemed possible that it might break something on other
| phones.
| raghav_nautiyal wrote:
| Is it possible for signal to act like a chat client, and allow
| its users to send messages via Signal to someone using WhatsApp?
| Not sure what protocol WhatsApp and Signal use to send messages -
| was just wondering since most Email clients do this using SMTP.
| mkmk2 wrote:
| I wouldn't expect a project like that to go too far, I know of
| a couple of oss whatsapp clients that got took down, I'd assume
| when such a component comes online facebook would start causing
| trouble for them. Matrix uses bots which bridges services with
| services like signal, that seems to be the easiest way to
| achieve inter-operability, though idk how usable it is in
| practice.
| raghav_nautiyal wrote:
| It isn't likely Facebook is going to be in favour of such a
| feature, if it ever comes up. It just seems like it would be
| something that would give people more of an incentive to move
| to Signal, since they won't lose their contacts. Not sure how
| it would work in practice though, and how would Signal ensure
| the messages aren't going through to WhatsApp. Anyway, this
| was just a thought.
| sigzero wrote:
| It wouldn't surprise me if Signal was working on something like
| this already.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| Signal has repeatedly demonstrated they don't care about chat
| history.
| TrishaK wrote:
| I would've liked to use this but it doesn't look like there is a
| release, so you would have to know how to build it yourself to
| even be able to try it.
| Qureshi157 wrote:
| Has anyone used this? If so, how?
|
| The ReadMe says to 'Build and install this version of the Signal
| App and import the encrypted Backup of your signal messages.', so
| I am assuming we would have to build it but there are no
| instructions/steps on how to actually do that.
|
| I have been struggling to get my family all moved over but if
| they have access to their old messages (so I might have to do
| this for multiple people), that might make it easier to convince
| them.
| jsiepkes wrote:
| Can someone explain to me what use case I'm missing? Why do
| people care about old messages?
|
| Personally I just read incoming message and never "scroll back".
| userbinator wrote:
| There's something called history, a lot of people like that...
|
| More philosophically, the fact that such a doubt even exists is
| a little disturbing sign of society today.
| tomatocracy wrote:
| Some messages include information I need to go back and refer
| to. eg a recent example for me was a relative sent me
| dimensions for a piece of furniture they were getting rid of
| and offered to me so I needed to check if it fit in the space I
| was thinking of. I couldn't check when they sent me the message
| so I needed to go back and check later.
| dspillett wrote:
| _> Why do people care about old messages?_
|
| Example from recent days: "what was [friend]'s postal address
| again, I didn't copy it over to contacts, search for address,
| there it is".
| framecowbird wrote:
| I'm with you. I can't remember the time I last looked back more
| than a couple days.
| Jweb_Guru wrote:
| But many of us have usecases for looking back at
| conversations from months ago, so just telling people "you
| don't need it" isn't likely to get you very far.
| infinityplus1 wrote:
| Messages are like email. I never delete them. Situations arrive
| where I have to go look into past messages to see what
| conversations I had around several dates.
| Lopiolis wrote:
| Does it matter? People care. People don't want to lose years
| worth of chat histories with friends, family and their
| significant other(s). That's just how it is. I'm not sure why
| it's so hotly debated around here. People want to preserve
| their chats and their media. There's sentimental/emotional
| value to these things and they don't want to lose these things.
| That's all that _should_ matter. I feel like these discussions
| always get bogged down in "but why", particularly from people
| who have a different opinion, when it's irrelevant. People
| value things differently. Just because their values are
| different from yours doesn't make them any less justified than
| you. This is reality. This is people.
|
| If Signal wants to provide a _mainstream_ secure and private
| alternative to WhatsApp, then it needs to make concessions to
| accommodate these preferences. If they don 't want to, that's
| fine, but it also means I can't recommend Signal to non-tech
| friends/family.
| jsiepkes wrote:
| It matters because people don't always realize that it means
| making trade-off's. And people often don't know what the
| consequences can be of those trade-offs because they didn't
| realise it was a trade-off to begin with.
|
| In case of whatsapp and keeping chat history it can mean
| years of chat history becoming public if for example your
| Apple / Google account (where whatsapp automatically stores
| your conversation backups) gets hacked.
|
| Do you think the people on Parler would have used the DM
| function if they had realised all those DM's could become
| public one day? Of course not. But they simply didn't realize
| that the "handy" DM function meant those messages were stored
| somewhere and that in turns means it can all get public one
| day.
| rocqua wrote:
| > In case of whatsapp and keeping chat history it can mean
| years of chat history becoming public if for example your
| Apple / Google account (where whatsapp automatically stores
| your conversation backups) gets hacked.
|
| IIRC the backups aren't stored in plaintext. They are
| encrypted with a key known to the device and whatsapp. The
| key is restored to a new device by whatsapp after SMS
| authentication.
|
| Hence only a Google Drive compromise will not lead to full
| chat history compromise. That also requires something like
| a Sim Swap attack.
| Lopiolis wrote:
| > In case of whatsapp and keeping chat history it can mean
| years of chat history becoming public if for example your
| Apple / Google account (where whatsapp automatically stores
| your conversation backups) gets hacked.
|
| This just isn't the threat model most people care about,
| nor do they have to. Given a choice between preserving
| their chat history with their loved ones and not having any
| of it in the off chance that it might be leaked somewhere,
| the vast majority of people will opt for the former. Once
| you value chat history and other media in this way, then
| the risk simply isn't relevant. Again, this is all
| irrelevant. You people keep thinking on this one track of
| "but it's not secure" when that isn't the overriding
| concern for these people. It needs to be secure enough
| while not completely disregarding one of their core needs
| (preserving history). It's non-negotiable and no amount of
| discussing of risk or privacy will change this. Again, I
| find it insufferable that tech people are so unwilling to
| take normal peoples' needs into account.
|
| Signal has the opportunity to become the default secure
| messaging app while also providing "secure" backups. They
| don't even need to be cloud backups, though that would be
| preferred. Even local backups can be sufficient. But as
| long as they don't account for the needs of "normal"
| people, Signal isn't a real option.
|
| If I go to my friend's girlfriend and say, here's this
| awesome secure messaging app that you need to switch to and
| she switches, then something happens to her phone and she
| loses all her precious chats, how do you think that's going
| to go over? I can blabber on about privacy and risks all I
| want, I'm still the asshole.
| hiq wrote:
| It's nice to store any information that's nice to have, but not
| important enough to expressly record somewhere. "search, don't
| sort" applies especially well to this kind of info.
|
| Addresses were already mentioned, but that also applies to
| IBAN, email addresses, door codes, restaurants...
|
| It's also some kind of light diary: you can easily deduce what
| you were doing on a certain day if you look at the
| corresponding message.
|
| For me it's not important enough that I would want to migrate
| it to another app if I were switching (I'd just save the DB),
| but it's not completely useless either. And of course some
| people just store everything there, including things that were
| not messages in the first, just like they do with email. You
| can argue that they shouldn't, but if that's what they want...
|
| Obviously that's also a privacy risk, e.g. in case you lose
| your phone. There are many countries where I wouldn't keep my
| chat history for more than one week.
| mikro2nd wrote:
| Personally I read messages, keep them only long enough to take
| action (when that's necessary) and then delete them. I don't
| want my brain cluttered by dozens/hundreds/thousands of
| ancient, no-longer-relevant messages. Furthermore, when the
| blackshirts come to get you, it's your own old messages they'll
| use to hang you. Get rid of them, I say.
| pagade wrote:
| Mainly disposophobia.
| chupchap wrote:
| Messages are not always transactional right? They can also be
| emotional and heartfelt. Some people like to revist such
| messages.
| Y-bar wrote:
| This is me. It's like the old shoe-box of postcards which is
| in the attic a year or two at a time. I still keep an old
| device with messages from someone whom I will never meet
| again. It is emotional and I sometimes reminisce by charging
| the device and scroll through the messages.
| WhyNotHugo wrote:
| Generally, it's attachment, or emotionality (sorry to sound so
| robotic, I'm not disproving, merely describing reality).
|
| Many also keep information around in chat messages, knowing
| "it's there", and don't copy it elsewhere.
| jan_Inkepa wrote:
| My memory's not great, and it's good to be able to double-check
| if I've talked about something with someone before, or to find
| old links/information shared ("damnit, what was her niece
| called again? I'll sound like an idiot asking her for the third
| time"). Or stuff like "remember when you told me X?" - just to
| have evidence to clear things up, or to be able to refer to
| conversations in the distant past from time to time.
| rdwallis wrote:
| I used my whatsapp chat history to successfully contest a
| traffic fine.
|
| My parents wanted me to check on their house while they were
| away. I messaged them on whatsapp when I left my house and then
| again when I arrived at theirs.
|
| A month or so after my trip I was sent a fine for not
| displaying my car license while my car was parked on a public
| road. I had driven down the road where the fine was recorded
| during the trip. Using the timestamps of the whatsapp messages
| I was able to show that there was not enough time during my
| trip for me to have stopped to park.
| vinay427 wrote:
| > A month or so after my trip I was sent a fine for not
| displaying my car license while my car was parked on a public
| road. I had driven down the road where the fine was recorded
| during the trip.
|
| More of an aside, but what sort of car license must be
| displayed for parking but not for driving down the same road?
| Is it some sort of parking permit or disc?
| rdwallis wrote:
| A car license is required when driving or parked but the
| fine was issued to a parked car without a driver in it. I
| proved that I was driving the car when the ticket was
| issued so the claims made by the metro officer about how
| they issued the ticket were not true.
|
| My car was licensed at the time and the license was
| displayed correctly. I was not guilty of the offense and
| the whatsapp messages allowed me to prove that the officer
| who issued the ticket was lying.
| jl6 wrote:
| Is something like this possible but in reverse? Not to migrate to
| WhatsApp, but to export data from Signal to a neutral environment
| (text file, zip file, database, whatever). I can't switch to
| Signal until this becomes possible.
| goldbattle wrote:
| There is a fork that has the ability to export to encrypted
| zip, plain text, and the full database [1]. There seems to be a
| general theme of the dev's not supporting export/import
| functionality [2].
|
| [1] https://github.com/johanw666/Signal-Android
|
| [2] https://community.signalusers.org/t/lets-talk-about-
| backups/...
| Snuupy wrote:
| On mobile you can do this via backups and use
| https://github.com/xeals/signal-back
|
| On desktop you can copy the appdata folder over to the new
| device. (warning: this is not officially supported)
|
| Note that you must close the app on desktop from the host
| computer before copying the files over, otherwise the forward
| secrecy stuff breaks and you'll have to reset the sessions on
| the migrated computer.
| bentcorner wrote:
| I've tried https://github.com/xeals/signal-back and it's 95%
| of the way there but could use more attention - maybe it's my
| backup but the xml-formatted convos were formatted
| differently than the ones that the sms backup/restore app
| emitted. I compared just to sanity check it would import
| correctly but currently I'm unsure if it's a good idea.
|
| FWIW it's nice to have a plain text backup anyway, and a lot
| better than nothing. Maybe it works fine but I'd rather not
| import a backup that has "weird" results.
| jl6 wrote:
| Is there an equivalent for iOS?
| jl6 wrote:
| I've just discovered that you can sync the iOS app to the
| desktop client, and then extract messages from the SQLite
| database after decrypting with sqlcipher (key stored in the
| desktop client's JSON config). Not sure how reliably the
| desktop client will stay in sync with the app though.
| ViViDboarder wrote:
| I don't think so. I'm on iOS so I can always get access
| through my desktop app I have synced. That said, I'm also
| the kind of person who doesn't care if I throw away all my
| text messages.
| robjan wrote:
| Doesn't it make more sense to have a WhatsApp backup file to
| Signal backup file converter rather than forking the whole app.
|
| This fork would end up being a significant maintenance overhead
| for something that could be done more simply.
| godelski wrote:
| There's some extra weirdness about this too. The fork is from
| johanw666 and not from SignalApp. Johan has additional
| customizations in his fork, such as ignoring deletes. I thought
| the reason to fork here was because it would be a useful merge
| into the main branch but given that it is a fork of a fork that
| makes things harder.
| andreareina wrote:
| If the backup restore is a merge rather than a nuke and pave it
| might make sense to do whatever Molly[1][2] does to allow it to
| be installed alongside Signal, so it's install this, import
| from WhatsApp, then backup/restore without having to do the
| uninstall/reinstall dance.
|
| [1] https://github.com/mollyim/mollyim-android
|
| [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25743852
| mhaymo wrote:
| Presumably once the kinks are worked out of this process, it
| could be merged into the main release of Signal. No second app
| required.
| godelski wrote:
| The fork is from Johanw666 not Signal. Johan's fork has
| additional changes in it, such as ignoring deletes.
| shawnz wrote:
| I believe the Signal devs expressed a lack of interest in
| doing this since it would mean embedding secret Whatsapp
| encryption keys in Signal.
|
| See: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/1014
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25686179
| Vinnl wrote:
| They're interested [1], but as usual, giving some though on
| how to do that in a privacy-maximising way:
|
| > Thanks, we know [backup] is a big deal and think about it
| a lot. We're working on ways to do it that would be privacy
| preserving, and in the mean time we've got the p2p device
| transfer you mention. We'll keep working to make it better!
|
| [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/kt91qk/sig
| nal_p...
| codys wrote:
| It appears you've linked to a comment about the lack of a
| way to backup signal messages on iOS. That is
| separate(ish) from the importing of messages from
| WhatsApp.
|
| So, no, they're not interested in WhatsApp import (per
| the closed ticket liked by the parent).
|
| Additionally, the statement from signal is just PR spew.
| It boils down to "Nah, we won't make a way to do that.".
| The "privacy preserving" bit is nonsense because they
| have an export/import to a file on android.
| Vinnl wrote:
| Oh whoops, my bad - I was under the impression it was
| about import/export of Signal messages in general.
| There's been so much news about Signal recently that I'm
| getting comments mixed up, it seems.
| Semaphor wrote:
| That's essentially what this is. You install it to migrate,
| then you remove it again and install the original Signal app,
| as per the steps in the repo.
|
| I would guess it was easier (or even only possible) this way.
| est31 wrote:
| Yeah it's probably already hard enough to expect the average
| phone user to know how to (un)install apps. But expecting
| them to know which directory the file is in and is supposed
| to go into? Way harder.
| folkrav wrote:
| > The purpose of this fork is to make the transition to
| Signal easier. It was created out of a personal need and
| might not be supported or extended in the long run.
|
| Doesn't sound like he really put much more thought into it
| than "make it work". Like most of these one-and-done
| things, as a developer, you take the easy path, then forget
| about it.
| the_arun wrote:
| Also, let us think what if someone wants to migrate from
| another similar App - say telegram? Will we have another
| fork?
| cbsmith wrote:
| You'd be surprised. Uninstalling apps seems to be a very
| common procedure broadly practiced by people with their
| phones.
| t0astbread wrote:
| Not 100% on-topic since this is designed for ephemeral use but
| what is Signal's general stance towards forks on their server?
| I've considered switching to it but I don't like their official
| APK distributions.
| seebye wrote:
| They don't tolerate third party clients. See:
| https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco...
| tptacek wrote:
| They can't; part of the premise of the project is that they
| come up with privacy advances that are deployed network-wide
| by controlling both the client and the server. See Matrix for
| an example of how hard it is to get very basic privacy
| controls up and running when you don't control the client.
|
| (I always come across sounding like I'm dunking on Matrix; I
| like Matrix. Different project, different goals.)
| jeroenhd wrote:
| I haven't seen any evidence to indicate that alternative
| clients are supported or even tolerated. I don't think Signal
| will start blocking custom clients, but I don't think the
| Signal project will aid or cooperate with any development of an
| alternative client.
| josteink wrote:
| > I don't think Signal will start blocking custom clients
|
| Bridging Signal to Matrix has been notoriously difficult
| because Signal is actively hostile to all non-official
| clients.
|
| So yeah. Open source, but no open values was gained from
| that.
| tinus_hn wrote:
| Why would you do this? Signal doesn't care about chat history so
| this is a wasted effort.
| 0xCMP wrote:
| People are trying to address feature requests for keeping their
| messages backed up. Something which many people using WhatsApp
| really enjoyed having.
|
| e.g. On reddit it's common for r/dataisbeautiful to have posts
| which show graphs/charts on texting activity from the beginning
| of relationships and stuff. Which requires some way of keeping
| that data around.
| tinus_hn wrote:
| On iOS this is trivial and you have to go out of your way to
| not do it.
| benlwalker wrote:
| I tried to switch to Signal the other day. In the US on Android,
| most people use the default messaging app and that means a lot of
| MMS/RCS messages. All the messages between myself and my wife are
| RCS, for example. Signal failed to import these - it only did
| SMS. I'd love to see someone tackle this problem much like this
| WhatsApp migration. It's essentially a deal breaker for people in
| this situation.
| Craighead wrote:
| ... what?
| ViViDboarder wrote:
| From what I've heard, Google has not provided any Android APIs
| for reading RCS messages in the way they have for SMS/MMS.
| valera_rozuvan wrote:
| The repository mentions [0] the Wassenaar agreement, and that I
| must consult with the laws of my country on whether I am allowed
| to import/use software which includes encryption algorithms
| developed in other countries.
|
| Wat?
|
| In this day and age 99% (OK, this number is exaggerated, but you
| get my point) of software includes some sort of encryption. For
| one, think about all the libs/apps which communicate over the
| Internet and use encryption libs to talk via HTTPs. Is mentioning
| The Wassenaar Arrangement [1] in terms of software even necessary
| nowadays?
|
| Linux, Windows, MacOS - all have encryption libs built in (at
| least on the kernel level). They have been made in various
| countries, yet they are used all over the world. Do they fall
| under the terms of The Wassenaar Arrangement?
|
| --------
|
| [0] https://github.com/jukefoxer/Signal-
| Android/tree/feature/wa-...
|
| [1] https://www.wassenaar.org
| ffpip wrote:
| It's just legalese. He wants to avoid potential issues.
| userbinator wrote:
| Just legal asscovering, most likely.
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