[HN Gopher] Getting Started with Brave
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Getting Started with Brave
        
       Author : admiralspoo
       Score  : 120 points
       Date   : 2021-01-11 19:04 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (support.brave.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (support.brave.com)
        
       | jklinger410 wrote:
       | They should have a BAT extension for Firefox.
        
         | jonathansampson wrote:
         | The extension route isn't feasible. If you don't control the
         | underlying APIs, you can't guarantee service moving forward. We
         | saw this with the Manifest v3 alarms and how they threatened
         | the existence of uBlock Origin and other fine extensions.
         | There's a lot more that can be said about this topic, but I'll
         | leave it at that for now :)
        
           | thekyle wrote:
           | A hypothetical Brave Rewards extension would pretty much just
           | check which domains you visit and proportionally send them
           | BAT tokens. As long as there are APIs to check the current
           | domain and send HTTP requests to Brave's servers I think it
           | would be fine.
        
           | jklinger410 wrote:
           | I don't think BAT is a very serious idea if it's only
           | applicable to one browser.
        
           | 0-_-0 wrote:
           | "Firefox BAT extension might not work in the future" is still
           | better than no Firefox BAT extension. I like the idea of
           | Brave but my preference for Firefox is greater.
        
             | jonathansampson wrote:
             | It's not a matter of "might not work in the future," it
             | would be broken on arrival due to the limited abilities
             | offered by the current extension APIs.
             | 
             | As for Firefox vs Brave, I would encourage you to check out
             | the independent study by Leith, of Trinity College in
             | Dublin. Leith found Brave to be in its own class as the
             | "most private" browser tested (including Firefox): https://
             | www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs/browser_privacy.pdf.
             | 
             | You could perform a similar test yourself. Setup Fiddler on
             | your machine (installing the root cert to inspect HTTPS
             | traffic), set aside %localappdata%/Mozilla and
             | %appdata%/Mozilla, then launch Firefox. The traffic
             | (without any user interaction) is a surprise to many.
             | Compare with Brave (be sure to set aside
             | %localappdata%/BraveSoftware beforehand).
        
               | annoyingnoob wrote:
               | I've never quite understood why I would want to use Brave
               | as its just another chromium browser with some ideas
               | about advertising. I found your post interesting.
               | 
               | The paper you linked to is limited in scope to the
               | browser itself calling home with unique identifiers. The
               | paper says nothing about what happens when the browser
               | visits say Facebook.
               | 
               | In terms of the browser calling home and uniquely
               | tracking you all by itself, the paper says Brave does a
               | good job. But Brave still calls home for things and Brave
               | can still collect IP addresses and browser fingerprints
               | the same as any other site.
        
         | nobunaga wrote:
         | If people want to donate money to content creators or actually
         | earn money off the web, there are better alternatives than
         | watching ads.
        
       | beefee wrote:
       | It's important to have content-neutral browsers. Several days ago
       | Mozilla indicated their support of the Internet censorship
       | regime: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/01/08/we-need-more-
       | than-d...
        
         | teddyh wrote:
         | "Not supporting side A" is not "Supporting side B".
        
         | meremortals wrote:
         | + 1
         | 
         | ProtonMail indicated potentially entering the browser space:
         | https://twitter.com/ProtonMail/status/1347930110553419777
        
         | ignoramous wrote:
         | I re-read it twice, but I don't see anything in the blog post
         | advocating censorship:
         | 
         | > _1. Reveal who is paying for advertisements, how much they
         | are paying and who is being targeted._
         | 
         | > _2. Commit to meaningful transparency of platform algorithms
         | so we know how and what content is being amplified, to whom,
         | and the associated impact._
         | 
         | > _3. Turn on by default the tools to amplify factual voices
         | over disinformation._
         | 
         | > _4. Work with independent researchers to facilitate in-depth
         | studies of the platforms' impact on people and our societies,
         | and what we can do to improve things._
         | 
         | > _These are actions the platforms can and should commit to
         | today. The answer is not to do away with the internet, but to
         | build a better one that can withstand and gird against these
         | types of challenges. This is how we can begin to do that._
         | 
         | I read the blog post as claiming that deplatforming / silencing
         | isn't the answer. A lot more (outlined above) is required.
        
           | LanternLight83 wrote:
           | I'm with you- I read Mozilla's statement in a well-
           | intentioned light, and believe that they are still as much of
           | a leader of internet freedoms as they've ever been. It's true
           | that there's a complicated situation around censorship and
           | moderation, and the national conversation turning to this
           | area doesn't make the lines any clearer, but Mozilla
           | certainly doesn't deserve the level of criticism I've
           | observed in some forums for this statement. If you feel as
           | sure as I do, and would like to support their cause, it's
           | more effective to donate what you can to the Mozilla
           | Foundation than to further engage with the narratives these
           | threads imply.
        
             | war1025 wrote:
             | I could agree with this view if the article was titled
             | something like "Deplatforming is not the answer"
             | 
             | When you are in a politically charged moment like we were
             | when that post went live, a headline of "We need more than
             | Deplatforming" is implicitly stating that the actions taken
             | were correct and justified. That is obviously something a
             | large portion of the country is going to disagree with.
             | 
             | Ever since the ousting of Brendan Eich over his Prop 8
             | donations, right-leaning people have been a bit wary of
             | Mozilla. Many of us still backed them because the ideas
             | they claim to stand for seem noble.
             | 
             | Blog posts like the one in question make it very hard not
             | to feel like Mozilla's position is "we disagree with you
             | and we don't want you around." If they don't want us as
             | users, then maybe it's better we go elsewhere. Brave is a
             | logical place for such people to look since it is run by
             | Eich, which was where everything started.
        
           | BenFeldman1930 wrote:
           | Imagine Mozilla were actually producing TV sets. Then reread
           | and reevaluate.
        
             | BHSPitMonkey wrote:
             | The post reads (to me) like calls for web sites and
             | advertisers to implement these practices (like transparency
             | in advertisers), not like features/changes that will ship
             | in Firefox. I'll gladly change my tune, of course, when I
             | see a patch land that blocks users from viewing certain
             | content.
        
           | rdmreader3319 wrote:
           | Their only job is to display HTML as fast and optimized as
           | possible, not to guide people how to browse the Internet and
           | what to read.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | That ship sailed about 15 years ago when browsers started
             | blocking popup ads by default.
        
             | cryptopia wrote:
             | They chose differently.
        
           | brobdingnagians wrote:
           | Starting with the title "We need more than deplatforming".
           | First claim is that deplatforming / silencing is great, but
           | we need even more of the same.
           | 
           | "more than just the temporary silencing or permanent removal
           | of bad actors from social media platforms"
           | 
           | And of course, they want to be part of determining who,
           | exactly, is a bad actor.
        
             | offby37years wrote:
             | Their market share dwindling to zilch can't come quick
             | enough.
        
             | cryptopia wrote:
             | They also claim that The New York Times and news outlets
             | the NYT recommends represent "factual voices" that need to
             | be amplified.
             | 
             | I'm looking for alternatives after 24 years with Mozilla.
             | 
             | I used to worry about their sinking market share. Now I
             | celebrate it (2.66% if mobile browsers are included).
             | 
             | Unfortunately most alternatives are based on Chromium, and
             | Google is of course also not a neutral player.
             | 
             | Still, there are some interesting browsers to be
             | discovered. Opera has some really nice features now (like
             | workspaces and a free VPN), but it's closed source and
             | partially owned by a Chinese company. But it shows that
             | innovation is still possible in the browser space.
        
               | rdmreader3319 wrote:
               | I just ended 17 years of FF fidelity. I was already using
               | Brave on mobile and sometimes on desktop. With the
               | bookmark import tool and my password stored on Bitwarden,
               | it takes a couple of minutes to have a comfy browsing
               | environment.
               | 
               | The only issue I see with Brave is Qwant is the default
               | search engine. Qwant is heavily backed up from the French
               | government and answer to censor request very easily, I
               | have more trust in DDG for privacy & censorship.
        
               | valvar wrote:
               | I just installed Brave for Android, and for me Google was
               | the default. It's very straightforward to change to
               | Startpage or DDG, but much more worrying than the default
               | engine is that it does not seem to be possible to add a
               | custom search engine such as one using Searx! That's an
               | absolute necessity in my opinion.
        
               | rdmreader3319 wrote:
               | You can set DDG in the settings, I'm using DDG on the
               | Android version. It's also easy to choose it on the
               | desktop version.
        
               | valvar wrote:
               | I know, as I said in my comment. DDG is okay I guess, but
               | why is it not possible to use a truly custom engine? I
               | personally want to use an instance of Searx.
        
               | admax88q wrote:
               | Surely it is possible to configure a custom search engine
               | in Brave. I would be amazed if the list was hard coded.
        
               | valvar wrote:
               | Apparently it's only possible if the search engine
               | supports "open-search": https://community.brave.com/t/is-
               | it-possible-to-add-a-new-se...
               | 
               | None of the search engines that I want to use seem to
               | support open-search, however.
               | 
               | In Firefox this is not an issue and adding a custom
               | search engine there is trivial.
        
               | war1025 wrote:
               | I don't know if Brave supports it, but I learned a while
               | back that in Firefox you can add "smart bookmarks" (I
               | think that's what they're called) where you put a "%s" in
               | the url and then when you hotlink the bookmark it will
               | substitute any words after the bookmark keyword into the
               | url.
               | 
               | I've used that trick to add custom search keywords for
               | multiple websites that didn't have an "official" Firefox
               | search engine.
        
               | war1025 wrote:
               | I went to the Brave website and had a look around Friday
               | evening. I have also been using Firefox since back before
               | it was even called that.
               | 
               | Part of me thinks I should make the switch, and then part
               | of me think that I'd just be indirectly backing Google by
               | switching to Brave.
               | 
               | Anyone have thoughts on that?
        
           | skrowl wrote:
           | > 3. Turn on by default the tools to amplify factual voices
           | over disinformation.
           | 
           | > 4. Work with independent researchers to facilitate in-depth
           | studies of the platforms' impact on people and our societies,
           | and what we can do to improve things.
           | 
           | I'll help you. These two are the overt censorship.
           | 
           | When (often hyper-partisan like Snopes) fact checkers are the
           | ones determining what you can see based on THEIR OWN
           | interpretation of "hate speech" or "inciting violence" then
           | that's censorship.
           | 
           | Alternatively, if you don't want to see something on Twitter
           | / Parler / Gab / etc, just don't follow that person instead
           | of calling for them to be censored.
        
             | BHSPitMonkey wrote:
             | > When (often hyper-partisan like Snopes) fact checkers are
             | the ones determining what you can see based on THEIR OWN
             | interpretation of "hate speech" or "inciting violence" then
             | that's censorship.
             | 
             | This viewpoint is the culmination of years of hacking the
             | Overton window. In any two-party environment where only
             | _one_ party regularly _does_ proliferate bigotry and
             | violent attitudes, any reasonable/neutral observer will
             | appear to be a partisan for the opposition by default.
             | 
             | To assume this wouldn't be the case wrongly assumes that
             | ideas should naturally fall along a Normal distribution,
             | with the most morally-correct views centered precisely at
             | x=0 (bipartisan) along the left/right axis.
        
               | war1025 wrote:
               | > In any two-party environment where only _one_ party
               | regularly _does_ proliferate bigotry and violent
               | attitudes
               | 
               | Anyone who believes this is a true depiction of politics
               | in the USA is willfully blind.
        
               | BHSPitMonkey wrote:
               | The probability of both factions promoting
               | bigoted/violent attitudes at precisely the same rate is,
               | well, impossible. Inevitably there will be a higher
               | penetration of these ideas in one side or the other.
               | 
               | I'm not making the claim that the balance is immutable
               | (it's always changing), but at this moment (and for the
               | past decade, at least) there is one side where those
               | ideas are _far_ more widely seen as acceptable or
               | encouraged.
        
               | olah_1 wrote:
               | I understand your point, but I am assuming that you
               | aren't aware of the examples that the parent and I are
               | thinking of. There is blatant manipulation of "mostly
               | false" and "mostly true" for things. It's very slimey.
               | 
               | They spin for their team and exaggerate for the other.
        
         | guidovranken wrote:
         | This was the final straw for me. I'm migrating to alternatives
         | after a very long time with Firefox. I just can't trust the
         | product of a wildly ideological organization which clearly has
         | hangups about free speech and how users spend their time on the
         | internet. (For some reason you never hear these people about
         | Tor which undoubtedly has been conducive in many human rights
         | violations).
         | 
         | I've tried Brave and it looks and feels good. And the ability
         | to donate to random Twitter users directly from the browser
         | interface is a brilliant and innovative feature that I intend
         | to start using.
        
         | sergiotapia wrote:
         | Totally agree, I've told everyone I know to drop Firefox
         | because of this.
        
       | ogogmad wrote:
       | Why does Brave need its own blockchain token? Either it's
       | centralised and doesn't need blockchain. Or it's trying to be
       | decentralised, and then might as well use an existing token like
       | BTC or ETH. I understand that the latter may be too expensive for
       | micropayments, but surely that comes with the territory when
       | you're using a blockchain.
       | 
       | I simply don't get BAT.
        
       | mind_half_full wrote:
       | +1
        
         | nobunaga wrote:
         | +1 to exactly what? Scammy behaviour from a product that can
         | potentially watch and track your every move?
         | https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-aff...
        
           | matthewrobertso wrote:
           | You've linked the same article on nearly every thread on this
           | post, why is changing affiliate links for cryptocurrency
           | important?
        
             | nobunaga wrote:
             | A piece of software injecting behaviour that aims to
             | benefit the CEO of the company and earn him money should be
             | considered what exactly? Have you ever seen any other
             | browser do anything like that? I think you are simplifying
             | the issues here. They did not advertise what they did, and
             | only changed their behavior when they were caught out. I
             | can point to quite a few other things Brave has done that
             | is similar in nature. I think people should be informed
             | about the product before considering using it since it pops
             | up on HN once every 3 months.
        
               | matthewrobertso wrote:
               | The article you linked doesn't support your assertions
               | and the linked explanation tweet from their CEO seems
               | pretty reasonable: https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status
               | /1269317625915400192
               | 
               | I don't see how I was simplifying the issue by asking you
               | a question. It also seems to me like you are reaching for
               | a reason to discredit the browser.
        
               | nobunaga wrote:
               | Its ok to differ on the opinion about wether an
               | explanation is reasonable or not and we differ on that.
               | How one can make that mistake to me is a bit worrisome.
               | To me, thats not a developer bug (nor does their
               | explanation provide any proof that it is), its an
               | intentional way for someone to benefit financially
               | without informing their users. Also have a look at the +1
               | posters history. Some more interesting behaviour. If you
               | want and care, do some of your own research on some of
               | the other 'mistakrs' brave and their CEO have done. Ive
               | never seen such mistakes happen regularly with other
               | browsers that have been around longer. Feel free to use
               | Brave, Im just informing the public.
        
       | kylehotchkiss wrote:
       | Brave with the various crypto extensions removed is a very nice
       | alternative to Chrome.
        
         | jonathansampson wrote:
         | Brave's (privacy-respecting) ad notifications are off by
         | default. But I would encourage you to reconsider these
         | features, unless (or even if) you support content creators out
         | of your own pocket. Sponsored Images, for instance, is a high-
         | quality image that appears on every 4th new tab. 70% of the
         | associated revenue goes into your wallet, which can then
         | automatically flow out to the verified sites and properties you
         | visit throughout the month. It's a great way to convert your
         | attention into real support for the people who make the Web
         | enjoyable. And best yet, there is no user data involved or
         | exchanged.
        
           | freeone3000 wrote:
           | How do these websites collect this money?
        
         | cryptopia wrote:
         | Afaik dissenter from Gab is a fork from Brave, presumably
         | without the crypto.
         | 
         | Last I checked (briefly after it was released), I didn't care
         | that much for the right leaning comments. But maybe it has
         | improved or it can be filtered.
        
           | jonathansampson wrote:
           | Gab is abandonware. It hasn't been updated since September of
           | 2020, IIRC. I'd be careful with that app.
        
             | userbinator wrote:
             | Something has gone _very_ wrong with how people perceive
             | software if  "hasn't been updated in _three months_ " is
             | enough to call it "abandonware".
             | 
             | Software does not, and perhaps I should say should not,
             | need to constantly change.
             | 
             | This is completely orthogonal to Gab's political leaning.
        
               | rsynnott wrote:
               | For a web browser, that's certainly getting into
               | dangerous territory. You want your web browser to be
               | updated as rapidly as possible; zero days are a fact of
               | life.
        
         | nobunaga wrote:
         | There are so many better alternatives to brave. I would not
         | advocate for it considering their past behaviour which makes
         | them not a browser to trust
         | (https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-
         | aff...)
        
       | nobunaga wrote:
       | Brave seems to pop up here every now and then. With its past
       | history of scammy behaviour
       | (https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-aff...)
       | and how they collect money without actually promising to give it
       | to people that they claim to act opn behalf of, its not a browser
       | anyone should trust.
       | 
       | There are so many better alternatives to brave for those that
       | want to donate to content creators or just browse the web. I have
       | never understood the fascination or usefulness of brave. I would
       | caution people against using it.
        
         | StephenSmith wrote:
         | What alternative do you suggest? I'm using firefox and
         | wondering if I should look at something else.
        
           | nobunaga wrote:
           | De-Google Chromium, Firefox with the right extensions
           | installed, Safari if you like the walled garden and apple
           | ecosystem
           | 
           | Im sure there are more but all the bells and whistles Brave
           | touts you can get elsewhere and you are not using a product
           | from a company that has shady practices
        
         | john-shaffer wrote:
         | > how they collect money without actually promising to give it
         | to people that they claim to act opn behalf of
         | 
         | This has not been the case for a long time.
         | 
         | Brave is far from perfect, but it is much better than allowing
         | Apple or Google to control your browser and doesn't require any
         | tech expertise to use.
        
           | jonathansampson wrote:
           | Some clarification here.
           | 
           | Back in 2018, Brave gave tokens from our own UGP (User Growth
           | Pool) to users. These tokens could then be directed to
           | websites, YouTube channels, and more. If the intended
           | recipient wasn't verified, the tokens would go into a
           | settlement wallet. But note, the tokens people were sending
           | were almost entirely those which they first received from
           | Brave (it was not yet possible to earn rewards at that time).
           | So users were getting tokens from Brave, then earmarking
           | those tokens for content creators.
           | 
           | More details at https://brave.com/rewards-update/
        
           | freewilly1040 wrote:
           | It seems Brave is often combatting some bad pattern on the
           | web by replacing it with something worse.
           | 
           | The latest affiliate link controversy was from 2020 [1] Weird
           | ad browser notifications is not that old [2]
           | 
           | Probably others. Happy to be wrong, I haven't researched it
           | much, but what exactly is the case that they have a good
           | track record of any significant length?
           | 
           | [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-
           | aff... [2] https://community.brave.com/t/turning-off-brave-
           | notification...
        
             | john-shaffer wrote:
             | You have to explicitly find and enable the ad
             | notifications. It can actually be a bit of a PITA. I
             | couldn't get it to work on my phone. The purpose is if you
             | want to support websites, but don't want to spend money.
             | The ad revenue goes in a wallet, and you decide who to
             | disburse it to (they do have to be registered as a Creator
             | -- Brave's system is subject to KYC laws). The revenue is
             | small and not worth the notifications, so transferring
             | funds to your wallet is generally a much better option.
             | 
             | I don't have sources other than that I've been using Brave
             | as my primary browser on all devices.
        
             | jonathansampson wrote:
             | The affiliate link "controversy" didn't impact user privacy
             | or security in any way. Brave offered a pre-search
             | affiliate option for some keywords before the use
             | navigated. Our mistake was doing this for fully-qualified
             | domains too. Read https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-
             | suggested-sites/ for more details, including screenshots.
             | 
             | Regarding your second concern about ad notifications, these
             | are Brave Ads. They're opt-in. And they're built on privacy
             | and anonymity. See https://brave.com/rewards for more. A
             | quick summary: users who opt-in to Brave Ads receive a
             | regional catalog of ads. Their browser, locally on their
             | device, studies the catalog for relevant items. When an ad
             | can be shown (users determine frequency), a notification is
             | displayed. At this time, 70% of the associated revenue is
             | directed towards the user.
             | 
             | Brave Rewards is a way for users to support content
             | creators on the Web without having to sign up for services,
             | hand over personal information, or dig into their own
             | pocket. It's a way to passively translate your attention
             | into real, substantive support for the sites you visit.
        
             | matthewrobertso wrote:
             | [1] is the exact same link linked to by OP and is not
             | convincingly an issue [2] is about an opt-in system that is
             | easily disabled if accidentally opted into
        
         | ashleshbiradar wrote:
         | What's wrong with it's creator contributions thing?
        
           | nobunaga wrote:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18734999
           | 
           | https://twitter.com/vj_chidambaram/status/107647481470831001.
           | ..
           | 
           | Are some examples.
        
         | chappi42 wrote:
         | Normally I use Firefox, but as it didn't run well on
         | SailfishX/Android, an alternative was needed. Tried Brave,
         | adapted some settings and this browser runs very well, I can
         | recommend it. And, at least for me, Brave is very useful!
        
         | beefee wrote:
         | It's a matter of preference and threat models. Brave isn't
         | perfect, and has had some controversy in their business
         | practices. They also have some telemetry and cryptocurrency
         | ads. For non-technical users I still think Brave is the best
         | overall bet, especially on mobile devices. There's a great
         | privacy comparison linked in a different thread.
         | 
         | For more technical people, ungoogled-chromium [1] is probably
         | the cleanest option. It's completely free from ads, telemetry,
         | "pings", "experiments", and the like.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium
        
           | rglullis wrote:
           | I am fairly technical and I prefer Brave _because_ of the
           | ads. It 's the one model I think that has acceptable ethics
           | and that can be an alternative to Surveillance Capitalism.
           | Crypto is just an implementation detail, but an important one
           | if you really want to make it a global alternative and that
           | can include the unbanked.
           | 
           | It made me contribute to content creators way more than I
           | have with Flattr (now owned by scammy EyeO, remember them?)
           | or with Patreon. I can not do any of that with any other
           | offering.
           | 
           | Lastly: what telemetry?
        
             | beefee wrote:
             | Here's the telemetry documentation:
             | https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/P3A
             | 
             | So it's sending some amount of telemetry, but it's not so
             | bad compared to mainstream browsers. A more detailed
             | comparison is available in this report linked by another
             | commenter:
             | https://www.scss.tcd.ie/Doug.Leith/pubs/browser_privacy.pdf
        
           | curiousgal wrote:
           | I am fairly technical and I prefer Brave because of the anti-
           | fingerprinting.
        
             | fsflover wrote:
             | What does https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ show for Brave?
        
               | curiousgal wrote:
               | Here you go
               | 
               | https://i.imgur.com/RJpoIGu.png
        
             | Tanath wrote:
             | If you want to avoid fingerprinting you should use tor-
             | browser. And using a chromium-based browser over tor makes
             | you more fingerprintable, not less.
        
         | jraph wrote:
         | > Brave seems to pop up here every now and then
         | 
         | Yes. "Oh, another unwarranted mention of Brave!"
         | 
         | Isn't Hacker News a website on things that gratifies own's
         | curiosity? How does an article about how to get started with a
         | browser that isn't new is supposed to fulfill this requirement?
         | By making us ask ourselves these questions?
         | 
         | These mentions which just look like ads need comments like
         | yours at the top of the post.
         | 
         | It's not even hard! The presentation of a new version with
         | interesting new features would fit the bill.
        
         | jonathansampson wrote:
         | There is no "scammy" behavior in our past. What you're linking
         | to here is an affiliate link offering from pre-search UI in the
         | browser. This involved no user data, no privacy impact, etc.
         | See the official response here (with screenshots, so as to
         | clarify how the feature actually worked):
         | https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-suggested-sites/.
         | 
         | If an affiliate link offering (shown plainly, and prior to any
         | navigation event) worries you, wait until you see what other
         | browsers are getting away with. If you're using Chrome, Edge,
         | or Firefox, your browser serves as an out-of-the-box keylogger,
         | sending each keystroke off to Google (Chrome and Firefox) or
         | Bing (Edge) as you type into the address bar. Even an
         | unintentional pasting of sensitive information gets
         | transmitted.
        
           | nobunaga wrote:
           | There has been plenty of 'mistakes' that brave has needed to
           | backtrack on and apologise for. Other browsers that have been
           | around longer than brave have not been found to behave in
           | ways brave has even though I am sure many researchers poke
           | holes in it. If you would like to point out the behaviour of
           | other browsers and compare it to the controversies that Brave
           | has had, feel free to do so and prove many of the doubters
           | wrong. The affiliate link is one of many examples.
        
         | offby37years wrote:
         | Still more trustworthy than the mainstream alternatives
         | (Google, Mozilla, Apple or Microsoft).
        
           | jfk13 wrote:
           | I don't think it's helpful to group Google, Mozilla, Apple
           | and Microsoft together like this, as though they were all "of
           | a kind". There are some very different business models and
           | priorities among them.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | userbinator wrote:
             | They're all essentially controlled by Google to some
             | extent, from the perspective of "web standards" churning...
             | but then, so is Brave.
        
           | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
           | I find Safari good enough. Slow to support new APIs maybe,
           | but it's perfectly serviceable for a daily driver. What's
           | your issue with it?
        
             | lmedinas wrote:
             | Safari is good, my dealbreak is the adblockers. Ive been
             | using Safari since 2 months im already desperate to use
             | Firefox, Chrome or even give Brave a try. And no, none of
             | the available adblocker for Safari works well.
        
           | nobunaga wrote:
           | To be honest, thats a claim that you have not proven. If
           | anything, Firefox and safari are probably more trustworthy
           | based on my own subjective opinion. They have never injected
           | affiliate links or promised to do things which are borderline
           | scam-like behaviour.
           | 
           | I personally treat all software with a level of distrust. But
           | brave has done things which all point to a certain behaviour
           | in which people should think twice before using the product.
           | You can get the benefits of privacy that Brave touts from
           | other browsers. If you want to donate to content creators,
           | plenty of ways to do so as well.
        
             | rglullis wrote:
             | BS. Do a Google search on Firefox. The querystring has an
             | identifier for Firefox.
             | 
             | It's no different than what happened with Brave, except
             | that Brave acknowledged it was bug behavior and that the
             | identifier is only for the browser, not user data.
             | 
             | As for ways to donate to content creators, please do tell:
             | is there any solution out there that let us be rewarded by
             | getting privacy-preserving ads _and_ to contribute the
             | proceeds further to other people?
        
               | LawnGnome wrote:
               | Having a source identifier in a query string isn't
               | remotely the same thing as hijacking links or injecting
               | content into a page.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | The ads are via notifications.
               | 
               | There has NEVER been link hijacking or content injecting
               | on a page, what are you smoking?
        
               | LawnGnome wrote:
               | Link hijacking:
               | https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2020/06/06/the-
               | brave-we...
               | 
               | Content injection: https://community.brave.com/t/does-
               | brave-inject-buttons-onto...
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | The first was not link hijacking. It was a bug,
               | acknowledged and fixed.
               | 
               | The second... You are technically right, but I thought
               | you meant the browser was injecting their own ads on
               | someone else's page. The tip button does none of that, it
               | does not disturb the user or gets in the way of any
               | action, can be disabled and is there to help the creators
               | network. I don't see anything to get worked up about.
        
               | nobunaga wrote:
               | Its very different IMO, one benefits the CEO financially
               | the other is an identifier for tracking purposes. One was
               | done without informing the user the other is a common
               | methodology that many websites do with parameters such
               | utm_ (not that I am advocating for tracking). They are,
               | IMO, very different practices. Im sure you disagree but
               | when you modify a URL for financial gain without
               | informing your users and then backtrack only when you get
               | caught out, its a different ball game.
               | 
               | Im not going to get in to the game of finding specific
               | ways to donate to content creators. There are ways to do
               | it. If you want to do it anonymously, I am sure you can
               | do so as well, I have never been interested in doing so.
               | If the reason you want to use brave is to donate money
               | anonymously, more power to you, personally, I would
               | caution people against using it due to their past shady
               | behaviour (The affiliate link is just one of many
               | examples).
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | Sorry, this seems like just an attempt for you to
               | rationalize your double standard.
               | 
               | > There are ways to do it.
               | 
               | It's more than "donating anonymously". I asked if you can
               | point an alternative that lets me monetize my attention
               | and give it forward. Show me any system as
               | straightforward as Brave that lets me give 2-3EUR every
               | month to wikipedia and archive.org and any one else I
               | desire.
               | 
               | > The affiliate link is just one of many examples.
               | 
               | Extraordinary claims and extraordinary evidence. I see
               | you already failed at providing an alternative for
               | supporting content creators, will you also back out of
               | showing what "many examples" you are talking about?
               | 
               | PS.: Curious that you single out the CEO. If you don't
               | want to use Brave for having a beef with the CEO it's one
               | thing, but at least be honest about instead of making it
               | about the product.
        
               | freeone3000 wrote:
               | Does wikipedia actually _get_ the money from your
               | attention? That appears to be the foundational problem
               | behind Beaver 's BAT approach: it's not opt-in for the
               | website.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | Yes, they do. The recurrent donations can only be given
               | to verified accounts.
        
               | nobunaga wrote:
               | You have been provided evidence by multiple people on
               | Brave's shady practices yet you are the one who seems to
               | be such a fervent supporter in the face of much evidence
               | provided to you that no other mainstream browser (besides
               | chrome maybe) has shown so consistently even though they
               | have been around longer than Brave. I never even knew the
               | CEO until I came across the last hacker news article on
               | Brave's dodgy behavior. Stop making assumptions about
               | people on the internet.
               | 
               | Why should I research for you a topic which does not
               | negate the shady practices that Brave has been at fault
               | for? If you want to donate money using Brave go for it,
               | the evidence of what Brave has done, and done so
               | consistently on many fronts is out there. If you want to
               | look into it, go for it, I am not your personal
               | researcher, a lot has already been done for you.
        
           | anxrn wrote:
           | One of these is not like the others. I would genuinely like
           | to understand why I should not trust Mozilla.
        
       | mateus1 wrote:
       | Just get Firefox.
       | 
       | Brave has ads, including annoying desktop pop ups!
        
         | strig wrote:
         | But does FF have an adblocker on iOS?
        
         | anderber wrote:
         | You have to active choose in the settings to get ads. And if
         | you do, you get "paid" in crypto for getting them. But I also
         | like Firefox.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jonathansampson wrote:
         | "Brave has ads" is a good thing. Please, allow me to explain :)
         | 
         | When you launch Firefox for the first time, you're already
         | being setup and prepared to be served to Google. Your data and
         | more are being primed. The address bar serves as a key-logger,
         | and your inputs (before ever explicitly navigating anywhere)
         | are being sent to Google.
         | 
         | Brave's ad notifications are opt-in; you have to turn them on.
         | You decide their frequency. They're built on privacy. Users in
         | a common region (e.g. United States) share a regional catalog.
         | Your browser downloads a copy of this catalog, studies it
         | locally, and decides when/if it should show any of the ads
         | listed therein.
         | 
         | When a Brave Ad is displayed, 70% of the revenue goes into a
         | digital wallet. When you see an ad in Firefox, there's a good
         | chance you just lost a little bit of your data, and received
         | nothing in return. In Brave, these rewards stack up, and can be
         | passively or actively distributed to the sites and properties
         | you appreciate most online.
        
       | pachico wrote:
       | I've been using Brave for a couple of years, already (I think)
       | and I'm quite happy with it. By default it might spawn some ads
       | but you can easily disable it forever. It's the fastest there is.
        
         | xtracto wrote:
         | I love it, the only thing I feel it is missing is default
         | support for .bit domains. With all the censoring going on of
         | different sites at the DNS level, it is time to have a
         | distributed alternative.
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | Nobody who liked it when Brendan Eich resigned from Mozilla (over
       | his support of Prop 8) should consider using Brave, now or in the
       | future.
        
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