[HN Gopher] Vuejs rejects close to 75% of outside contributions
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Vuejs rejects close to 75% of outside contributions
Author : gieksosz
Score : 67 points
Date : 2021-01-10 20:10 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (merge-chance.info)
(TXT) w3m dump (merge-chance.info)
| [deleted]
| mlthoughts2018 wrote:
| I think this is a good thing generally, Vue has consistently been
| one of the best engineered and most effectively designed pieces
| of software in the Javascript world, largely due to
| uncompromising enforcement of the design opinions and aesthetics
| it asserts.
|
| As long as the maintainers are responsive to bug fixes and key
| feature requirements (since they aren't accepting of outside
| contributors adding them), then this is fine, possibly even
| optimal in terms of quality.
|
| The trouble comes in if they both don't allow many outside
| contributions and at the same time they pull the same unjustified
| complaint of a lot of OSS and say because they aren't paid for
| their time, they will prioritize what interests them rather than
| what resolves painpoints or missing features users need. You
| definitely can't have it both ways.
| bird_monster wrote:
| > I think this is a good thing generally, Vue has consistently
| been one of the best engineered and most effectively designed
| pieces of software in the Javascript world, largely due to
| uncompromising enforcement of the design opinions and
| aesthetics it asserts.
|
| Which is much easier to attain if you're comfortable with only
| a single person being allowed to write code. Personally, I
| wouldn't use Vue in any business-oriented application for this
| exact reason. The "bus factor", or as I would call it, "If and
| when Evan decides to stop caring about Vue", is enough to make
| Vue dead in the water as a legitimate FE library choice (to
| me).
| feoren wrote:
| This is why you should always avoid every giant "do
| everything" framework. Use libraries that are small, focused,
| and do their one job well enough _right now_. Then it doesn
| 't matter if it stops being maintained: it still keeps doing
| its job well. If you do have to replace it, it's much easier,
| because it doesn't do too much. Vue, Angular, React -- all of
| them are "build your application around our framework"
| libraries, not "easily incorporate our library into your
| workflow" libraries. That is enough for me to immediately
| reject all of them.
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| The org has 49 people on it. And every project that has one
| people who leads it can surive without that person, it's
| called they fork the project.
| bird_monster wrote:
| https://github.com/vuejs/vue/graphs/contributors?from=2016-
| 0...
|
| Here you can find the code additions Github Insight.
|
| The org can have 49 people in it, but 48 of them are not
| writing code for Vue.js.
| felipellrocha wrote:
| > Vue has consistently been one of the best engineered and most
| effectively designed pieces of software in the Javascript world
|
| I wonder how you justify that, because I'm currently
| maintaining a vue project in production and couldn't disagree
| more (honest question)
| ttxndrx wrote:
| What problems are you having?
| vijaybritto wrote:
| That's not a problem with the framework itself right
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| > I wonder how you justify that, because I'm currently
| maintaining a vue project in production and couldn't disagree
| more (honest question)
|
| I am sure majority of developers have had two or more
| projects using the same framework/library and found the
| difficulty of maintaining them different.
| edoceo wrote:
| I manage (different) teams with Vue, RiotJS, React, Django,
| Slim and Rails as large components of the project stack.
|
| Maintenance of revenue generating code is a unique beast -
| and rarely has the framework been the magical
| differentiator.
| panabee wrote:
| do you mind sharing the problems? if you could start over,
| would you have chosen react instead?
| ficklepickle wrote:
| Maybe it is a problem with the application rather than the
| framework?
| ng12 wrote:
| I think the opposite: it's a sign that your API is too wide and
| users expect more special cases and edge features to solve
| their needs.
| mlthoughts2018 wrote:
| If a user felt that way, it would make no sense for them to
| choose Vue. Vue's up-front, stated design goal is omit
| special cases or edge features intentionally and directly
| assert that's not a good way to design a framework.
|
| Vue may be right or wrong, but nobody wishing for special
| case features can claim to be surprised. If you picked Vue
| knowing you need a bunch of special case features, that's on
| you.
| feoren wrote:
| Everyone always needs a bunch of "special case features".
| Always. If you're not doing something new, why are you
| bothering to write code?
| elygre wrote:
| That's like saying that if you don't need to invent new
| words, why are you bothering to write books.
| zinekeller wrote:
| I will talk about accepting outside contributions in a general
| sense (beyond JS and Julia comparisons).
|
| In my personal experience, the acceptance rates doesn't really
| matter and does not correlate to the quality of the code. On one
| hand, you have SQLite which really _discourages_ direct code
| submissions due to the nature of the IP management of SQLite
| (they need to ensure that it is 100% in public domain), instead
| relying on bug reports instead. SQLite however _is a very good
| product_ , something that I personally miss when I work on JS
| projects.
|
| On the other hand, I've seen projects (multiple, which I prefer
| not naming to prevent flame wars) with very high acceptance rates
| - the problem is that the coding style and availability of
| comments are inconsistent to the point that we have to forego
| using some libraries and writing our own despite those libraries
| will fit into the bill nicely.
|
| Edit: some have commented "this is what I've expected!", but
| there are some projects (obviously will be unnamed) that are not
| accepting contributions but the code consistency is less-than-
| ideal, and some projects with well-behaved outside contributors
| that have kept the quality despite having high acceptance rates
| (usually writing in relatively niche languages). Probably the
| area I'm working on (educational) isn't reflective on the wider
| community, which seems to associate higher rejection rates to
| quality.
| young_unixer wrote:
| You say acceptance rate doesn't correlate with code quality and
| then you give 2 data points where it does correlate in the
| expected way.
| santoshalper wrote:
| He's playing the long con.
| zinekeller wrote:
| Added remarks. Probably the area I'm working on (educational)
| isn't reflective on the wider community, which seems to
| associate higher rejection rates to quality.
| darkerside wrote:
| I'm confused. My intuition is that the lower the acceptance
| rate, the higher the code quality would be. It demonstrates
| high standards.
| zinekeller wrote:
| Added remarks. Probably the area I'm working on (educational)
| isn't reflective on the wider community, which seems to
| associate higher rejection rates to quality.
| gieksosz wrote:
| On top of that some repos, like Bazel for instance close all
| PRs and import them via a process which happens outside GitHub.
| Some repositories do not use GitHub organisations at all, other
| do it a lot - those factors make merge-chance.info analysis
| more difficult, but I still think it is interesting. I hope it
| might even help someone chose what project to contribute to.
| zinekeller wrote:
| I think that if you want to contribute, they should at least
| be upfront on the processes, or even the absence of it. Some
| do not accept at all, some do only accept on bugfixes, and
| some are happy to extend the project. The chance of merging
| of course is a decent barometer for contributors who wants to
| work on projects who are allegedly open to contributions, but
| I will not use it as a barometer of the quality of the code
| itself (or at least as a minor barometer - never as a major
| one).
| ithrow wrote:
| Why can't you use sqlite in js projects?
| wffurr wrote:
| GP misses the quality of engineering that goes into sqlite
| when dealing with JS projects.
| zoobab wrote:
| As long as you can play Doom.
| captain_price7 wrote:
| Maybe significantly more work, but can you try to filter out very
| small (or spam) PRs before these calculations? Maybe limit this
| analysis to PRs that edits source code (not just comment and
| docs). Or maybe include those, but only when "amount" of changes
| cross a certain threshold? (e.g. exclude PRs that fix just one
| typo)
| spartanatreyu wrote:
| This is for the old version of vue (v2), not the current vue
| (v3).
|
| This title should read: Vue accepts 70% of outside contributions
| on latest version and only 23% on old version.
| ohitsdom wrote:
| Vue 3 included a re-write in Typescript. The Vue team was very
| vocal in the benefits TS would bring, including making it
| easier for outsiders to contribute.
| [deleted]
| notretarded wrote:
| Ahhh the applying Torvalds approach to code reviews.
| thih9 wrote:
| I wish the submitter added their comment or gave some context, if
| there is any. For me this is an arbitrary number for a random
| popular repository. Especially since the linked github project
| https://github.com/vuejs/vue is not the latest version of vue
| (see: https://github.com/vuejs/vue-next ).
| gieksosz wrote:
| Author here. I am still exploring useful metrics for
| classifying open source projects. My initial intent was to find
| a way to judge if given project is a good use of time for a
| first time contributor, someone not affiliated with original
| authors.
| zhirzh wrote:
| not sure if there's a point to checking this stat this is
| interesting, though checkout vim. it has 0% acceptance:
| https://merge-chance.info/target?repo=vim/vim
| jdieiueejjene wrote:
| The best part about Vue is it isn't sponsored by giant evil
| corporation like Facebook who have enabled violence and racism
| for the past 4 years.
|
| We as developers need to do better and support people like Evan
| out there.
|
| Eventually, we should also hold individual engineers who work at
| Facebook/similar accountable to a higher standard and reject
| their software even if it's open source or wonderful (React).
| MaKey wrote:
| There is no need to bring politics into software development
| wherever possible. I don't care who has written the code, code
| itself is apolitical.
| Spone wrote:
| > code itself is apolitical
|
| I suggest you read Larry Lessig's Code 2.0 book.
| rkho wrote:
| I do not believe "read a 426-page book" should be
| considered a reasonable response here. At best this
| response is short-sighted.
| ipsocannibal wrote:
| You could at least post a link or say why this is a good
| book to read. While we are suggesting books I think "The
| Making of the Atomic Bomb" is a great work highlighting the
| political motives behind the making of the 20th centuries
| most important "tool".
| devdas wrote:
| The book is pretty much a thesis on why code is law, and
| therefore very political.
| bitwize wrote:
| Everything is political. Everything is affected by, and
| affects, the political decisions we, the people, make. The
| last few years have been instructive in what happens if we
| ignore fascism and allow ourselves to relax when it comes to
| anti-fascist vigilance.
| ljm wrote:
| This is a bit extreme, and also quite unhelpful,
| truthfully. It just happens to sound virtuous because the
| crosshairs are pointed at fascism, and that's ignoring the
| myopic focus on the US' issues.
|
| Pick your battles, as the saying goes. It is possible to
| care about issues without carpet bombing everyone with your
| concerns, or wedging politics into every discussion.
|
| And similarly, be careful what you wish for. It sounds like
| a terrible and exhausting way to live.
| Fellshard wrote:
| I'm going to be somewhat blunt in response, but I hope it's
| not seen as an attack. The phrase 'everything is political'
| is not a statement of truth, but rather a statement of
| demand: 'make everything political'. That is a tool to turn
| up the temperature of a given topic dramatically, not to
| encourage thoughtful change.
| nullsense wrote:
| Politics happens any time you've got at least three
| people deciding over what to do with a given resource. If
| anyone is wondering why three people? Three people is the
| minimum number for a coalition to form.
| enraged_camel wrote:
| On the contrary, the only people making a demand are
| developers who insist that their work does, or should,
| exist in a vacuum, outside of and independent of what is
| going on in the world, i.e. politics.
|
| Reality, however, is there, whether we would like it to
| be there or not.
|
| Look, I get it: sometimes you just want to put your head
| down and focus on technical details, and let someone else
| worry about the context. But keeping your head buried in
| the sand all the time isn't the answer.
| ljm wrote:
| Reality is also a lot larger and more complicated than
| the simplistic context a small slice of it is placed in,
| with everyone demanding their particular context is _the_
| important one. We dumb down our reality all the time in
| order to fit it to our agenda, selectively picking and
| choosing the bits we like, and what else can we do in a
| world with over 7 billion conscious minds?
|
| My worry about your line of thinking, and the everything
| is political one, is that it feels a bit like eradicating
| diversity of thought and experience. To relate it to the
| start of this thread, plenty of the world outside the US
| will have so much of their own shit to deal with than the
| politics that are _important to you_ are not at all
| important to them.
|
| For anyone to suggest or demand or require otherwise
| would seem to be quite imperialistic to me.
| MaKey wrote:
| > But keeping your head buried in the sand all the time
| isn't the answer.
|
| It isn't, but I can't see a benefit of dragging unrelated
| politics into software development, even though the
| topics might be important.
| [deleted]
| vyhd wrote:
| No, they got it right the first time. "Everything is
| political" is a reminder that we do not exist in a
| cultural vacuum. More pointedly, the simple act of
| existing in a space as a minority invites what you'd call
| "politics".
|
| If your existence has never felt "political" to you,
| cherish that. I've been on the receiving end of many
| slurs and the occasional attempted assault, and I've
| watched politicians and pundits debate on cable TV
| whether I deserve to have the same rights afforded anyone
| else. I didn't choose to exist "politically", but I sure
| do notice when folks don't speak up against challenges to
| my existence because they view it as "politics" and
| therefore not worth their attention.
| ipsocannibal wrote:
| "I don't care who has written the code, code itself is
| apolitical"
|
| When backdoors are added to your service framework, when
| dragnet data collection services copy every artifact of your
| digital existence in the name of "national security" or when
| algorithms have been trained to distinguish faces specificly
| of your race you will damn sure want to know who wrote that
| code and why. Its just naive to think tools exist outside of
| their intended function and political ends often determine
| those functions.
| MaKey wrote:
| I agree. I was aiming at the context of the parent comment.
| The employer of someone (e. g. Facebook) shouldn't have an
| effect on how their code is treated.
| gnud wrote:
| But when you use projects pushed by big companies, you
| are giving those companies word-of-mouth advertising, and
| when their projects become popular they get a pool of
| pre-trained engineers for free.
|
| So if you honestly feel that a company is pure evil, you
| really ought to avoid any open source project they
| publish. Not because the code is political, but because
| everything surrounding the code is.
| sam_goody wrote:
| This. I wholeheartedly agree.
|
| Which is why I disagree with Vue (and others) putting
| gigantic BLM banners on their sites.
|
| Even if the cause is just, by mixing in politics, you create
| less of a common ground for those working on and using the
| code, thus creating rifts where there need not be any.
| Everything becomes "us" and "them".
| majkinetor wrote:
| We may all agree, but that doesn't change the fact that it
| increasingly isn't nowdays.
|
| With corps controlling main dev portals it will stay with
| us unless we have decentralized platform.
| ipsocannibal wrote:
| Yeah there is a fine between espousing and radically
| shoving down someones throat a political point of view. The
| former is commendable the later is often divisive.
| qmmmur wrote:
| Everything is political.
| vaulk wrote:
| Talking point used by communists to push for authoritarian
| control over every sphere of life.
| Xevi wrote:
| That's the old Vue 2 repository, which has been pretty inactive
| for a while due to the full rewrite of Vue.
|
| Vue 3 (70.62% acceptance): https://merge-
| chance.info/target?repo=vuejs/vue-next
|
| Svelte (57.23% acceptance): https://merge-
| chance.info/target?repo=sveltejs/svelte
|
| React (45.99% acceptance): https://merge-
| chance.info/target?repo=facebook/react
|
| Angular (1.63% acceptance): https://merge-
| chance.info/target?repo=angular/angular
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| Looking at the PR history for the vuejs repo, I can't say that
| I'm surprised. Holy hell, what a wasteland.
| gieksosz wrote:
| It seems to happen more often for big JS projects like React
| and Vue. Julia projects do not seem to suffer from that.
| judge2020 wrote:
| Ya, here's some examples of spam:
|
| https://github.com/vuejs/vue/pull/11847/files
|
| https://github.com/vuejs/vue/pull/11853/files
|
| https://github.com/vuejs/vue/pull/11820/files
|
| https://github.com/vuejs/vue/pull/11818/files
|
| All within the last month.
|
| Maybe there's some tutorial for 'how to submit a PR on GitHub'
| that links to Vue.js and people are following that?
| TiccyRobby wrote:
| Damn. They need to somehow discourage that. Do they blacklist
| those people?
| bitwize wrote:
| That third one reminds me of the "covfefe" meme a while back
| (our Dear Leader at the time was also attempting to type the
| word "coverage").
| szundi wrote:
| Thank you, I had the best laugh of the day. Also has a point.
| AlphaWeaver wrote:
| You're exactly right re: tutorials. See the Hacktoberfest
| drama on HN from last October for more examples of this sort
| of thing.
| null_deref wrote:
| That's was my thought, but it seems like those PRs aren't
| from last October...
| [deleted]
| acemarke wrote:
| Yep. The OP submitted a similar thread earlier today about 50%
| of external React PRs being rejected, and I left a comment
| saying that it's a combo of the React codebase being complex
| and most external PRs being junk or irrelevant.
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