[HN Gopher] PeerTube v3
___________________________________________________________________
PeerTube v3
Author : spzx
Score : 629 points
Date : 2021-01-10 01:01 UTC (22 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (framablog.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (framablog.org)
| mikaeluman wrote:
| Exciting stuff. Congratulations to you for this major release. We
| need more alternatives and the decentralized approach is
| certainly interesting.
| Vaslo wrote:
| This seems extremely relevant given everything going on. Do we
| have to worry about the same deplatforming and data tracking as
| we see on other media sites? Asking because I just don't know - I
| don't want to hop over just to have the same problems.
| [deleted]
| de6u99er wrote:
| >extremely relevant given everything going on
|
| What exactly do you mean by that?
| hug wrote:
| Just in case this is a serious question, without
| editorialising, the following has happened in the past 48
| hours:
|
| * Trump has been bannned from Twitter.
|
| * Trump has attempted to use the POTUS account, and had those
| tweets removed.
|
| * Trump has been removed from Facebook.
|
| * Trump has been banned from Twitch.
|
| * The Discord server for the_donald has been banned from
| Discord.
|
| * Parler has been removed from the Google Play Store and the
| App Store.
|
| * AWS has announced plans to discontinue Parler's hosting.
|
| And I think that's about it, for very recently. For those who
| support Trump, "deplatforming" is a major concern, as Trump
| has now lost access to essentially all of his base via social
| media. Once he's out of office, he's not going to have
| anywhere near as significant a reach as he may have.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Did AWS pull the plug?
|
| I think this is roughly equivalent to Visa telling you that
| it won't do business with you. Which they recently did with
| Pornhub.
|
| There doesn't seem to be many good solutions. The
| Refragmentation (http://paulgraham.com/re.html) was the
| only pg essay I truly disliked, because I didn't want it to
| be true. Yet here we are.
| hug wrote:
| AWS has announced that they are cutting Parler off as of
| Sunday at midnight PST.
|
| Article: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/johnpaczkow
| ski/amazon-p...
|
| And HN discussion:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25708142
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| A few years ago the comparison wouldn't had stood :
|
| If both Visa and Mastercard happened to have banned you,
| them being pretty much the only two players in the
| market, you would be pretty much fucked.
|
| Meanwhile there were tons of ways to be hosted, including
| self-hosting.
|
| Nowadays I'm not so sure, both Visa/Mastercard duopoly
| doesn't seem to be as uncontested as before, and AWS kept
| growing ?
| detaro wrote:
| I don't really have the impression there's that much less
| hosting options now than a few years ago?
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Maybe not, it's just that even more developers are going
| to use AWS without even considering other alternatives
| for hosting, just like using Github for their "open
| source" projects ?
| lawnchair_larry wrote:
| There are actually A LOT more too but they aren't huge
| names. The left are going on a banning spree right now.
| ikt wrote:
| the left? these are massive multibillion dollar
| corporations mate.
| Yetanfou wrote:
| And? Those multi-billion companies have been toeing a
| certain line for a long time now, partly in the hope of
| being left alone to gather even more money if they only
| did some token gestures, partly because they've taken on
| their own share of activists in their HR and
| communications divisions.
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| umm email. Umm, press releases. jeez
| hug wrote:
| CampaignMonitor, the service the Trump organisation used
| for its mail services, has suspended Trump's access.
|
| https://twitter.com/DaveLeeFT/status/1347724204473372672
|
| Press releases rely on press organisations to distribute,
| which aren't under Trump's control, unlike his previous
| social media accounts, which had a reach of millions by
| themselves.
|
| I am not trying to impute any kind of values onto these
| facts. They're just things that have happened around the
| deplatforming of Trump, post 6th January.
| [deleted]
| posguy wrote:
| Nothing stops the Trump org from doing what InfoWarz does
| and sign up with Akamai and Lumen/Centurylink/Level 3 for
| their server hosting and CDN.
| topranks wrote:
| Akamai is fronting InfoWars? Didn't know that.
|
| EDIT: Just checked and it's resolving to Cloudflare IPs
| where I'm at. Same same but different I guess.
| nmfisher wrote:
| Until they ban them too.
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| If the whole world is against you, maybe you are doing
| something wrong
| posguy wrote:
| The merged entity known as Centurylink/Lumen/Level 3 is a
| common carrier unlike Twitter, Facebook, etc, they have
| no need to cease serving anyone and would lose their
| status as a common carrier if they were to start
| moderating the content of the data that clients move over
| their pipes.
|
| If served with an injunction by a court, or if the user
| failed to pay their bills, those are the only cases in
| which you would see them stop serving a client.
| rzz3 wrote:
| If we go back to October-November, we also had a major
| newspaper banned from Twitter for weeks for posting a story
| critical of Hunter Biden with an implication that Joe Biden
| may have been involved in some type of corruption.
| Yetanfou wrote:
| To those who voted down the parent, know that your
| reaction is part of the problem, not part of the
| solution. Pravda and Izvestia only printed "approved
| news", we made fun of them here in the west while in the
| Soviet Union is was said "there is no news in Pravda, no
| truth in Izvestia". I don't want to go there and will
| speak up against this type of censorship no matter who
| gets censored. Let the law be the bar which needs to be
| passed to be allowed to publish, not some ideological
| stance. If you do want to use ideology as a guideline to
| what gets published you a) have to be honest about it and
| b) don't get too claim protection as a common carrier,
| i.e. you will be responsible for what gets published
| through your channel.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| > * Parler has been removed from the Google Play Store and
| the App Store.
|
| I support the other "deplatformings" (he loooong had it
| coming), and am neutral about AWS, but this is bullshit.
| Google, and especially Apple (where there's no workarounds)
| shouldn't have the right to ban generic software like that
| !
| blisterpeanuts wrote:
| > For those who support Trump, "deplatforming" is a major
| concern, as Trump has now lost access to essentially all of
| his base via social media.
|
| There are also a lot of people who are concerned about the
| dangerous precedent being set, regardless of whether they
| support this individual or not.
| hug wrote:
| That is true, and it was remiss of me (and a good example
| of recency bias) to at all imply this is a Trump-specific
| problem.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| I'm afraid that Trump's case is exceptional to the point
| that it's only hindering the discussion about what
| Twitter(/Facebook/YouTube) should be allowed or not to
| do.
| wussboy wrote:
| Preventing dangerous incitement to violence is in no way
| recent, not is what is happening now in any way new. The
| only difference between now and 200 years ago is the
| amount of damage that speech that is unconstrained by
| social norms can do. I get very frustrated with all this
| "Oh no, if we prevent this dangerous person from saying
| dangerous things our society will fall apart!" while it
| has been precisely this clamping down on dangerous speech
| throughout the last ten thousand years that allows us to
| live together at all.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| The payment networks have been banning risky clients for
| many decades. Many other businesses do the same, so I
| don't think this is any new precedent.
|
| And it's trivial for someone kicked off of the big social
| media networks to make there own website and post
| whatever they want.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I have a hard time understanding why people feel like
| this is a _new_ thing. If I start shouting obscenities
| during a live interview on ANY major media outlet, they
| will immediately kick me off. Is their refusal really the
| end of Free Speech?
| frogpelt wrote:
| Consider it from this perspective: Donald Trump was
| elected, not because he represented conservative people
| so well. Not even close.
|
| He was elected because conservative opinions have been
| given so little credence versus liberal opinions on the
| biggest platforms that they turned to someone who would
| fight those platforms head on.
|
| Liberal voices and opinions have been lauded, applauded,
| and promoted more than their fair share by most media and
| social media platforms for decades. That has created deep
| resentment in large areas of the country.
|
| Donald Trump is a symptom of the disease that American
| politics and the associated media outlets have
| contracted. He is not the disease itself.
|
| The way he is acting is not that surprising to anyone who
| pays attention to his personality. And the response in
| the last week by media and social media and big tech
| companies has also not been surprising, although I think
| they should have been more measured.
|
| But the underlying problem still remains. De-platforming
| Donald Trump will not fix the broken and biased system.
| And every move and countermove escalates the resentment.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| I hear you - but, at least in my case, it doesn't _feel_
| true.
|
| I'm from a small town in the upper Midwest. My entire
| childhood and teenage years were dominated by Rush
| Limbaugh/Charlie Sykes/et al on the radio and Fox News on
| the television ( _always_ Fox News). Did NPR /CNN/etc
| exist? Sure - but I (literally) didn't know anyone who
| listened/watched them until college.
|
| This idea that conservatives are being crushed under the
| boot of "liberal" media feels like a cop-out.
| Conservative politicians could have gone big tent in the
| 80-90's, but they didn't. They focused on consolidation
| of a specific demographic and are now in a kerfluffal
| because that base is becoming a cultural minority.
|
| Edit: also - the resentment _was always there_. Go listen
| to Rush in the 90s. Nothing about what conservatives are
| complaining about is new.
| rzz3 wrote:
| Very well said.
| M2Ys4U wrote:
| I think the precedent of "if you incite violence you're
| no longer welcome" is a perfectly fine precedent to set.
| zaroth wrote:
| This would be great if it applied universally. Except,
| 2020 demonstrated very clearly it only applies to
| specific violent protest, not all violent protest in
| general.
| [deleted]
| dicknuckle wrote:
| they're referring to seditious government officials skirting
| with calls for violence against political rivals being banned
| from large social media platforms because enough is enough.
| tasogare wrote:
| Onboarding that guy on any alternative platform would be a huge
| marketing coverage and grow in userbase for the said platform.
| I wonder if a company will try to play this card.
| marcinzm wrote:
| The issue is that then a lot of very toxic people will go to
| that platform and there will be a lot of very toxic content.
| Then all the people who aren't toxic will leave the platform
| because they don't want to be subjected to that content. Then
| advertisers will leave because they don't want their brands
| associated with that content. Then app stores will drop the
| app because they don't want their brands associated with that
| content. Then the platform essentially dies or stagnates.
| r00fus wrote:
| So you're saying the individual you're discussing is truly
| radioactive? If so, for how long?
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| As the Gab/Mastodon situation has shown, this is not
| guaranteed to happen.
| marcinzm wrote:
| In what way? Gab was banned on most app stores as I
| understand it. Gab seems to be user financed which has
| historically paid out less than advertising. Mastodon
| basically blacklisted them everywhere it could (clients,
| instances, etc.) so they're not really part of the
| fediverse. Gab is for all intent and purposes not part of
| the Mastodon platform because Mastodon knew what would
| happen if it was.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Gab was indeed blacklisted in many (though not all?)
| Mastodon apps.
|
| My point is that, since Gab "joined" Mastodon, nothing of
| what you have predicted happened to Mastodon. My hope is
| that the same things will (not) happen to Peertube, for
| the same reasons.
| marcinzm wrote:
| Except the point I responded to talked about marketing
| and a huge user increase. Mastodon hasn't gained
| marketing or users, Gab did. They use the same code
| mostly but are separate platforms for all intent and
| purposes. You can't have your candy and eat it too.
| tomcam wrote:
| What guy?
| dicknuckle wrote:
| probably trump or something.
| blisterpeanuts wrote:
| I think the parent is referring to the outgoing President
| of the U.S.
| convery wrote:
| Ah yes, Voldemort.. What an interesting time to be alive
| =P
| cinquemb wrote:
| He Who Must Not Be Named... the true cause of all of
| problems and evil... lol
| forgingahead wrote:
| "May you live in interesting times" is often understood
| to not be a positive wish!
| grahamburger wrote:
| It's decentralized. You can run your own server and post your
| stuff on it. That doesn't guarantee you a platform in the first
| place, but PeerTube itself can't really deplatform you. You
| could be deplatformed further up the stack, though, by your
| hosting provider, ssl provider, DNS registrar, etc.
| lasagnaphil wrote:
| Maybe hosting isn't that hard to do it yourself, but what
| about SSL and DNS, or maybe even up to the ISP level? Is it
| feasible for a small group of people to build infrastructure
| to achieve total independence from deplatforming (within
| charity budgets)?
| grahamburger wrote:
| TOR hidden services are, I think, the only quick and easy
| way to do this. Pirate Bay has been reasonably successful
| at staying accessible in the open, but not without
| considerable expense as I understand.
| kristofferR wrote:
| It's frankly astonishing the TPB still has their original
| .org domain.
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| So will PeerTube just become a tool for extremism?
|
| Or is that a feature? Are humans actually ready for the
| internet? I am not so sure. Just visited parler, and imagine a
| whole world filled with bat shit. Crazy, right?
| benatkin wrote:
| Wouldn't having all speech be controlled by giant platforms
| be batshit?
|
| It isn't anyone's job to rescue Parler. They're locked into a
| cloud provider, and that was their own doing. If they can't
| survive, tough kitty.
|
| However, an open internet, with the ability to run apps
| outside of app stores (needed for new peer to peer stuff to
| thrive), and use of crypto would mean someone could make a
| Parler. Mastodon and Matrix have had major controversies.
| remram wrote:
| The tool might be used for extremism, in the same sense that
| ffmpeg, email, and HTTP are. That is not the same as saying
| most users of PeerTube will be inundated with extremism
| though.
| gnusty_gnurc wrote:
| It's almost like _persuasion and dialogue_ is the only
| recourse to settling differences. Unless you want to resort
| to violence (which I'm told the anti-insurrectionists would
| /never/ do something so immoral).
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Probably, that's OK, because while there's no central
| platform authority there's also no barrier to anti-extremists
| using disruptive tactics against it.
| reddog wrote:
| Your local community library is also full of extremism. You
| will find copies of The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kamph, The
| Turner Diaries, The Anarchist Cookbook, Platos Republic, In
| Defense of Selfishness and The Koran.
|
| It has "problematic" works like Huckleberry Finn, Satanic
| Diaries and To Kill a Mockingbird.
|
| It has works written by known racists such as HP Lovecraft,
| TS Elliot, Roald Dahl, Dr Seuss and Kingsley Amis.
|
| It has hard copies of dangerous films that have been
| memoyholed by Prime and Netflix like Gone With The Wind and
| The Jazz Singer. It may also have DVDs that have been
| produced, directed and acted in by vile, cancelled
| individuals like Kevin Spacey, Louise CK, Harvey Weinstein,
| or Mel Gibson.
|
| Good God, it might even have a copy of the Jenna in blackface
| episode from the third season of 30 Rock. I am clutching my
| pearls and getting the vapors just thinking about it.
| hnaccy wrote:
| I host a site with lots of videos so am curious about this.
|
| If I add this and another peertube syncs with mine it sounds like
| I would still be responsible for bandwidth to their users
| watching my videos from their peertube?
|
| Does any have experience with how much bandwidth is saved from
| p2p part? Given my content I imagine most users will not be
| watching same videos at same time so p2p is negligible benefit.
| 2Gkashmiri wrote:
| For live streaming, the p2p is very interesting. I will try to
| link a very interesting test where a lot of server bandwidth
| was supplied by p2p. That can be very useful. About regular
| videos, even if only 1 other person is watching, p2p is in
| effect.
|
| Edit: https://framacolibri.org/t/fonctionnalite-live-retour-
| dutili...
|
| Check this link. It has a user test the live. One screenshot
| shows 1 GB from server, 9 GB from peers. 15 GB upload.
| reilly3000 wrote:
| How does content like child pornography dealt with on peertube?
| berkes wrote:
| On lower levels.
|
| If you would live in a country where CP is accepted, rent a
| server or VPS there, get your domain there, get SSL there, and
| maybe accept only local payments, you'd be 'fine'. As in:
| nothing will stop you.
|
| You can replace CP with 'copyrighted material', or 'political
| activity' etc. in above.
|
| Turned around: the providers, and/or operators of a node
| (server, instance) are liable. Not the platform.
|
| As it should be, IMO.
| rakoo wrote:
| To go further: there is a configurable cross activity between
| instances, such that videos and comments published on one
| side can be seen from the other side, but only if the admins
| have allowed it. You can't end up accidentally showing
| unwanted material unless you trusted someone who publishes
| it, so it comes down to who do you accept in your circle
| sundarurfriend wrote:
| Some Peertube instances useful for English speakers:
|
| https://peertube.nielsemmer.com/videos/local?a-state=42
| Documentaries, scitech talks, a few explanatory videos
|
| https://tilvids.com/ Varied. 'Fun facts' videos, educational,
| cooking, mythology, music, ...
|
| https://peerkids.com/videos/trending?a-state=42 Peertube for kids
| - cartoons, education stuff from TEDEd, PBS, etc. that look fun
| and well-made
|
| https://peertube.opencloud.lu/videos/overview Privacy, how-to
| videos, conference talks
|
| https://share.tube/videos/most-liked?a-state=42 Tech reviews and
| opinions, FOSS tools, gaming, etc.
|
| https://v.pfaff.dev/videos/most-liked?a-state=42 Tech tool
| reviews, privacy
|
| https://conf.tube/ Conference talks
|
| (I collected these some time back in response to someone asking
| for this, appropriately enough, on Mastodon.)
| fotad wrote:
| first link is 404 not found
| zimbatm wrote:
| > On this occasion, we launched a fundraising campaign, with the
| aim of financing the EUR60,000 that this development would cost
| us.
|
| It's amazing how much was achieved with so little money. Compared
| to many startups that raised 1M for a year and barely have a
| product after that.
| spzx wrote:
| "A minimalist and efficient peer-to-peer live stream
|
| The great feature of this v3 is live streaming, and we are proud
| to say that it works very well !
|
| ...
|
| The main points to remember :
|
| The lag (between video maker and audience) varies between 30
| seconds and 1mn, as expected ;
|
| Depending on the power of the server and its load (number of
| simultaneous live shows, transcoding, etc.), PeerTube can provide
| hundreds of simultaneous views (but we're not sure that it will
| scale to thousands... at least not yet !) ;
|
| Administration options are included for people hosting the
| instance ;
|
| The features are minimalist by design, and we have documented our
| recommendations for creating a live ;
|
| The live can be done with most video streaming tool (we recommend
| the free-libre software OBS), with two options :
|
| An << short-lived >> live, with a unique identifier, will offer
| the possibility to save the video and display a replay on the
| same link ;
|
| A << permanent >> live stream, which will work more like a Twitch
| channel, but without the replay option."
| geoah wrote:
| Congrats on a major update!
|
| Peertube is something I've been trying again and again from
| time to time. My main issue is finding instances to follow that
| are properly moderated. A lot of the suggested instances are
| filled with stolen content, porn, or just very wtf videos.
|
| I'm hoping that once peertube provides ways for users to
| sponsor/subscribe-to creators' peertube channels that more will
| either jump ship from youtube or at least publish in both
| platforms.
| remram wrote:
| A problem here is that the default configuration
| automatically follow back any instance that follows it,
| making all their content appear on its frontpage. I think
| that is a pretty unsafe default.
| lokedhs wrote:
| Didn't that default change recently? I installed Peertube a
| couple of months ago, and I'm pretty sure that option was
| off by default (and I never changed it).
| remram wrote:
| It might have! I installed a while ago.
|
| I didn't find a fast way to un-follow all those
| automatically-followed instances though.
| pjc50 wrote:
| > lot of the suggested instances are filled with stolen
| content, porn, or just very wtf videos.
|
| The service that competes with youtube but is less convenient
| will necessarily be full of content banned from youtube.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Yeah, though as we can see from experience of Gab being the
| biggest Mastodon instance and Mastodon not having
| collapsed, it's possible to have an alternative without it
| necessarily becoming a "witch town".
| rewq4321 wrote:
| Gab left the fediverse quite a while ago now:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/ie49qp/is_gab_
| sti...
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments/ie49qp/is_gab_
| sti...
|
| I don't think they ever really cared about
| decentralisation/federation. Seems they just wanted a
| nice codebase to work from.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| My main point is that Mastodon survived the ordeal.
| mkr-hn wrote:
| It wasn't hard when all the big apps and most of the big
| instances blocked it between the announcement and launch.
| The instances that didn't block it mostly looked like Gab
| anyway.
| M2Ys4U wrote:
| I'd take the claim that Gab was "the biggest Mastodon
| instance" with a pinch of salt, to be honest.
|
| Plus, they were immediately and almost universally banned
| by other instances in the fediverse
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Yes, while technically true, it's only due to the way
| that they arrived vs the way the rest of the Mastodon
| federation grew.
| rewq4321 wrote:
| Gab broke/removed the code for federation several months
| ago, so they're no longer part of the fediverse. See my
| reply to your GP for more details.
| hda2 wrote:
| Can peertube be split into two parts that live on separate
| servers: one that hosts the web interface and the other that
| seeds the videos?
|
| I would love to use peertube but the webhosting infrastructure I
| use would never be able to provide the large bandwidth needed for
| seeding videos. I do have ample bandwidth on non web hosting
| servers though.
| zanny wrote:
| Absolutely, seeding peertube videos would just be a regular
| webtorrent seedbox.
| xwdv wrote:
| Ok so where do we watch videos? Link?
| the_duke wrote:
| https://joinpeertube.org/instances#instances-list
| josteink wrote:
| Looking at the list of instances available, it seems that
| PeerTube is particularly popular among French-speaking people
| compared to relative relative popularity of the language
| itself.
|
| Is there any reason cultural-wise to suggest why that may be?
| M2Ys4U wrote:
| Framasoft - the organisation behind PeerTube - is French
| pjfin123 wrote:
| I made PeerTube and Mastadon accounts today out of curiosity and
| was generally impressed. Mastodon especially is quite usable
| (though obviously many fewer users than Twitter), the interface
| is as good as Twitter (better if you count not spamming you to
| login). I posted about my open source project and other random
| stuff and got several thought out, kind, non-spam replies with a
| new account. I imagine this is because of the barrier to entry
| and that I made my account on a open source focused instance. If
| Mastodon/federated social networking became popular I imagine
| there could be "Eternal September"
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September) dynamics
| though.
|
| I wonder if paradoxically federated communication would let you
| improve the quality of discourse by more proactively banning
| people. Mastadon works on a federated system where anyone can run
| they're own "instance" which can then interact with other
| instances pretty seamlessly. Since people really can leave if
| they don't like the rules you could be pretty heavy handed with
| moderation within individual instances to ban obnoxious people or
| have an invite only system.
|
| PeerTube was a little rougher around the edges, but still very
| impressive for being pretty new and doing p2p video streaming.
| There was more lag than YouTube but with decent internet it's
| fine. The choices for instances aren't great and storage size and
| bandwith are limited. Storage/bandwith cost money though and that
| may just be making what's an invisible cost on YouTube visible.
|
| My Mastodon: https://fosstodon.org/@argosopentech
|
| My PeerTube: https://peervideo.club/video-
| channels/argosopentech/videos
| makeworld wrote:
| An Eternal September can easily be avoided by joining a small
| server with a community you like. I and others would recommend
| over a couple hundred but under a couple thousand.
|
| As for improving discourse, I think you are exactly right.
| Unlike big tech Masto mods don't have the weight of the world
| on their shoulders and can moderate however. Nazi pits will
| still exist, but they'll be isolated.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| > If Mastodon/federated social networking became popular I
| imagine there could be "Eternal September"
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September) dynamics
| though.
|
| In a way that already happened. The biggest Mastodon instance
| is now the infamous 'alt-right' 'chan'-like community Gab.
|
| That you haven't even noticed it shows that Mastodon might be
| immune to "Eternal September" issues.
| sundarurfriend wrote:
| Afaik, Gab doesn't use Mastodon anymore. They did start as a
| Mastodon instance, but after being blocked from most
| instances and even at the software level by most Mastodon
| apps, they stopped using Mastodon and I believe wrote their
| own new backend that does not federate.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Source please ?
|
| Wikipedia is not completely clear about the subject
| ("customized Mastodon fork") :
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network)
| sundarurfriend wrote:
| Not very official but:
| https://todon.nl/@isolategab/105362599835139257
|
| Direct link to screenshot of post from someone from Gab
| (from the above page): https://todon.nl/system/media_atta
| chments/files/105/362/596/...
|
| Here's the commit that removes the Public/All timeline
| (the above image mentions that removal):
| https://code.gab.com/gab/social/gab-
| social/-/commit/7ad7fe06... Couldn't find when exactly
| Federation capability was removed, since that's less
| obvious from the commit messages (as someone who doesn't
| know Mastodon internals).
|
| It's still based on the Mastodon fork, but they seem to
| have been changing the code constantly even before this
| (based on information under #gab on Mastodon), so it's
| not clear how much it resembles the Mastodon source by
| now.
|
| PS: Somehow looking at the source repo and commit
| messages makes this more "real" for me, more than any
| screenshots or the user-facing site itself. It's a weird
| feeling.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Looks like Gab has silently broken federation a few months
| ago :
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25715513
| jobigoud wrote:
| I'm interested as well. How did you choose your PeerTube
| instance? What happens to the videos and followers if whoever
| runs peervideo.club stops what I assume is a side project of
| them?
| pjfin123 wrote:
| This was the biggest problem with PeerTube. For Mastodon I
| clicked the big "join" button on the website and filtered by
| technology > foss and fosstodon.org was the largest option
| and seems to have a great community. For PeerTube trying to
| do the same thing I found some small technology instance with
| a few hundred videos. I chose peervideo.club because it's the
| 4th largest (so I'd be in good company if it's taken down)
| and seemed to be the largest English focused instance. From
| their about, "Peer Video Club is a chill PeerTube instance
| most likely just for testing. How long we plan to maintain
| this instance: -\\(tsu)/-. How we will pay for this instance:
| Owners's own funds". Doesn't seem like a pillar of stability.
|
| My understanding is I could backup (no plans), and restore to
| another instance. To take my followers with me I would have
| to leave peervideo.club in a more planned way and set my
| account to redirect to another. No idea how long the redirect
| would have to stay up for most of my subscribers' instances
| to get the message. Even with federated you need some degree
| of trust that you won't be kicked off or have you instance
| shut down with no warning.
| ImprobableTruth wrote:
| I don't know whether this also applies to ActivityPub, but
| with Matrix it's similar to e-mail. If you use an
| identifier supplied by your instance, you run into the
| issue of having to tell people your new address. If you use
| your own domain as an identifier, you can simply redirect
| it to another instance if you switch.
| jrnichols wrote:
| Would you be willing to talk about what you have for a backend
| for the PeerTube instance?
| RMPR wrote:
| If you want to connect your Twitter and Mastodon accounts and
| enable crossposting, have a look at this[0]. I also wrote a
| blog post[1] were I talk a bit about my migration experience.
|
| 0: https://crossposter.masto.donte.com.br/
|
| 1: https://rmpr.xyz/Migrating-from-Twitter-to-Mastodon/
| wGeF7H8Z59y985y wrote:
| You can't label everything you disagree with as extremism.
| Advocate for the destruction of Israel on the basis that the
| Muslim god said so? That's extremism. Holding different political
| views? That's part of being a healthy and diverse society.
|
| I wish Americans would grow up and learn to coexist.
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| The problem is that a lot of these websites that exist as a
| safe haven for those who have been deplatformed are cesspools.
| The early adopters are the most toxic people, and things just
| go downhill from there. Seriously, go look at parler or voat.
| Here's an archive the voat post where it's shutdown was
| announced: https://archive.is/0kOST Open it up and Control-F
| the n word or any antisemetic slur. That's not the sort of
| discourse you'd expect on a healthy and diverse platform.
|
| Edit: I should add that the threshold for Youtube
| demonetization is probably lower than the threshold for getting
| a subreddit banned, so maybe Peertube won't face the same fate.
| The federated model might help too, does each Peertube instance
| behave like a separate community? Are there any instances with
| communities yet?
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Considering that Gab has (kind of) "joined" Mastodon, and
| Mastodon hasn't collapsed into a garbage fire, federated
| and/or decentralized services seem to be resistant to this
| issue.
| Shared404 wrote:
| > Are there any instances with communities yet?
|
| I don't know about instances with communities, but at least
| the Blender community has an instance.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| So you provide the tools for users to moderate their own
| content,. I understand that my email provider has a spam
| filter, but it would be unacceptable if I was unable to tweak
| those settings myself. Why do we expect anything less from
| social media?
| [deleted]
| dang wrote:
| Please don't post political or religious flamebait to HN. This
| comment is seriously not cool--it's basically starting yet
| another fire where there wasn't one already burning. HN is
| burning in 17 different places right now and we need users like
| you to refrain from arson and/or criminal negligence. Please
| review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use
| the site as intended.
|
| We detached this subthread from
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25708006.
| wGeF7H8Z59y985y wrote:
| You can't have your cake and eat it too, dang. You're asking
| us to refrain from politics in the same breath in which
| you're sweeping any sign of dissent under the rug. No wonder
| your house is on fire! This whole damn country is on fire,
| and you don't fight fires with more gasoline.
| cinquemb wrote:
| Moral hazards coming due... nothing to see here... lol
| lawnchair_larry wrote:
| The irony of this getting downvoted.
|
| And this.
| Sebguer wrote:
| People downvoting you is not censorship.
| dicknuckle wrote:
| advocating for the overthrow of an entire government or murder
| of certain politicians based on a conspiracy theory? extremism.
| lawnchair_larry wrote:
| Yep, lucky for you, your fan fiction can use this platform as
| well!
| cinquemb wrote:
| I can't stop thinking about this... lol
|
| "... What about Twitter? I have no idea what Twitter is
| good for. But if it flips out every tyrant in the Middle
| East, I'm interested." - Michael Rogers, Founder, Practical
| Futurist; Futurist-in-Residence, New York Times Company[0]
|
| http://web.archive.org/web/20140531073143/http://www.cfr.or
| g...
| frogpelt wrote:
| The paradox is that when you treat people you disagree with as
| extremists, you create more extremism.
| lokedhs wrote:
| I upgraded my Peertube instance to 3.0 and tried to stream. I
| noticed that when I did a 4k 60 stream, it was very unstable. It
| turns out that streaming uses more RAM on the server (I only had
| a 2 GB digitalocean instance).
|
| When I did the upgrade, I didn't see any mention of how much
| memory is going to be needed for streaming (in particular if you
| have multiple streams going in parallel).
| frebord wrote:
| I hope this decentralized stuff isn't too late too the party - we
| need easy to use decentralized platforms ASAP
| riffic wrote:
| as they say, the best time to build this hypothetical platform
| would have been 10 years ago. The second best time is now.
| koolk3ychain wrote:
| Now to wait and see how long until we get fined / arrested for
| using it! /s
|
| On a more serious note, this release looks awesome! I wonder if
| at some point, the real value add / perceived value of search and
| / or discovery on streaming and video platforms will cease to be
| relevant. It seems like search / reach is quickly becoming the
| only reason creators who directly monetize content distribute
| their content solely on YouTube.
| roenxi wrote:
| I like PeerTube, but the really important part of the puzzle is
| the advertiser network. What makes YouTube special is that Google
| takes care of the advertising side of things and makes it easy
| for people to monetise.
|
| If Silicon Valley continues to drift into ideological activism,
| at some point a hugely profitable opportunity to set up a new
| advertising network develops.
| tedunangst wrote:
| The only web advertising I ever see is from Daring Fireball
| precisely because it doesn't come from an ad network.
| einpoklum wrote:
| That piece of the YouTube puzzle is important to capitalists.
| It is of no importance to people who want to share video. And
| as for those who want to (try and) make a living off of sharing
| videos online - they can ask for monetary support and often get
| some.
| tamrix wrote:
| Do people forget that for many years since the founding of
| YouTube, YouTube didn't have any video ads?
|
| The better question is, was not having ads on the YouTube
| platform a deliberate choice to help grow adoption over its
| competitors which would have had to have ads to run (at the
| time) the expensive servers?
| marcinzm wrote:
| >If Silicon Valley continues to drift into ideological
| activism, at some point a hugely profitable opportunity to set
| up a new advertising network develops.
|
| YouTube started moderating it's content more because
| advertisers asked for it. No large advertiser wants to be shown
| next to a neo-nazi video.
| therein wrote:
| I think this kind of thing is over-emphasized.
|
| Most advertisers probably already understand that the person
| being exposed to their content for a brief moment isn't under
| the impression that the ad doesn't mean strong endorsement of
| the content by the advertiser.
| tibu wrote:
| This may be true but advertiser do not want to sponsor such
| content maybe
| roenxi wrote:
| About 33% of the US actively supported Trump's bid for
| presidency, and accounting for turnout probably a majority
| didn't care if he got back in.
|
| Accounting for business owners likely leaning free-market, it
| seems improbable that they mean 'Trump supporters' when they
| say 'we don't want to advertise with neo-nazis'. They
| probably mean literal neo-nazi.
|
| I don't mind if literal neo-nazi are moderated off a channel.
| Nobody likes them.
| YZF wrote:
| What's a literal neo-nazi? I guess nazis who aren't
| declaring their support for Hitler are not "literal" neo-
| nazis and are ok? I mean where you draw that line? Nobody
| likes them? Lots of people like them.
| marcinzm wrote:
| Look at all the types of videos YouTube de-monetizes, do
| you think YouTube wants to pay for hosting and make no
| money on the videos? No, that's all the types of videos
| that large advertisers (which pay the most) have complained
| about over time.
| roenxi wrote:
| Of course they want to, that is why they are doing it.
| They'd prefer to keep the network effects going because
| they know an exodus would undermine their for-pay videos.
|
| If they weren't happy, they would delete the videos on
| demonetisation. They don't have to pay for hosting. They
| know these videos are drawing in a valuable audience.
| nyolfen wrote:
| you have your eyes closed if you think they're only censoring
| the worst kinds of content, like nazis. videos have been
| taken down for e.g. criticizing lockdowns. it has moved well
| into policing acceptable thought.
| r00fus wrote:
| On the other hand I don't let my kids watch YouTube (even
| using YT kids and with my account to bypass ads) because
| they don't do enough moderation of extremist videos. A few
| clicks leads to a lot of provably false BS.
| rzz3 wrote:
| With all due respect though, it's not YouTube's job to
| decide what's appropriate for your kids, and there's a
| big difference between what's appropriate for children
| and what's appropriate for the rest of us consenting
| adults to watch.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| It's not about deciding what's acceptable for one's kids,
| it's about limiting the range of programming so that one
| can choose if that range is acceptable. This is a
| difference from traditional channels which have a
| distinct flavour and are subject to watchdogs (in my
| country, UK, at least).
|
| No parent has time to watch TV with their child all the
| time up until they're 18. You might say 'well don't let
| them watch TV' and that's a valid choice. But other
| parents want to choose safe ranges of programming and
| have someone else police stuff to make sure it stays in
| that range.
| daveleebbc wrote:
| Give me an example of a video that was removed for
| "critcizing lockdowns" -- and I can guarantee the reason
| isn't the criticism, but the manner in which it is somehow
| "backed up" by disinformation about Covid.
|
| Playing into this idea that somehow criticism isn't allowed
| is disingenuous.
| xyzzyz wrote:
| Disinformation, as determined by minimum wage experts
| hired as YouTube moderators.
| rzz3 wrote:
| > Give me an example of a video that was removed for
| "critcizing lockdowns"
|
| I'm sure you realize how difficult this would be to
| respond to, if such videos were in fact deleted.
|
| Nonetheless, https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-
| news/youtube-facebook-spli...
| etchalon wrote:
| That video was not removed for criticizing lockdowns. It
| was removed because it was misinformation, pseudoscience
| and conspiracy nonsense.
| dmkolobov wrote:
| A large portion of this kind of content results in people
| irresponsibly spreading a deadly disease while hospitals
| are turning dying people away in some areas of the country,
| e.g. LA.
|
| I am happy to see content platforms policing thought in
| this manner!
| [deleted]
| seebetter wrote:
| I'm not denying the numbers but I was at Century City
| mall today. Lot of people relatively, lot of fun. Made 3
| new friends today and went on a date.
|
| Yes roughly 2-3x the people are dying everyday vs 5
| months ago. That's horrible obviously but I barely see
| anyone in a close setting.
|
| But people are living despite it. My friend is dating 3
| to 7 girls at once and they all know each other (and all
| hang out together).
|
| Not saying that's ideal but the pandemic isn't affecting
| people like cable news suggest. Barely anyone talks about
| it but we all try to be careful.
| Aunche wrote:
| The residents of Singapore, Taiwan, and New Zealand are
| also having fun right now, without the 2x-3x people
| dying. The difference is that they stay at home when the
| experts tell them to stay at home.
| gurkendoktor wrote:
| At least in Taiwan everyone also wore masks, which was
| the opposite of what Western experts prescribed at the
| time. Telling people to wear masks was even banned in
| some places (though not on YouTube):
|
| https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51729647
|
| (Note that this is from March! When I left Taiwan in
| _late January_ , everyone at the airport was masked up
| and slightly paranoid.)
|
| Taiwan and NZ also closed their borders while Western
| experts "knew" that the coronavirus was just the flu, and
| that closing borders was xenophobic, racism is the real
| pandemic, etc. etc.
|
| 2020 is easily the year when Western experts failed the
| hardest I've ever witnessed. Absolutely surreal. Maybe we
| should fire and replace our current selection of experts
| _before_ we ban everyone else.
| [deleted]
| seebetter wrote:
| You're referring to this?
|
| https://www.vox.com/2018/12/13/18136253/pewdiepie-vs-
| tseries...
| cortesoft wrote:
| How is it going to be a profitable opportunity? No brand wants
| to be associated with the content that is being blocked, so
| there is no advertiser demand for alternative platforms.
| mhuffman wrote:
| I think you will find that if there are eyeballs, there are
| brands interested in advertising. Examples include: The
| Pirate Bay, 4chan, pornhub, etc.
| CuriouslyC wrote:
| Unless you're a baller youtuber with subscribers in the
| millions, youtube's monetization sucks. The game if you're a
| small fish is to use youtube to get people off youtube, because
| if you don't, you won't make anything.
| Iv wrote:
| I agree, but think it is the creators retribution piece that is
| important, and that it does not have to take the form of
| advertisement.
| pixl97 wrote:
| Profitable how?
|
| If it is not moderated, it will just be filled with spam, porn,
| and insane rambling.
|
| If it is moderated it can be attacked and/or controlled.
|
| It's a lose/lose situation.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Enough advertising already. There have to be better ways to
| monetize things than turning everything into a billboard. I'm
| willing to pay for stuff, but I'll fight tooth and nail against
| being advertised to.
|
| Besides the unwanted cognitive load it imposes, advertisers
| want feedback and that means they're incentivized to invade my
| privacy as well as intrude upon my attention.
| tachyonbeam wrote:
| There already are other networks. There's AppNexus in New York
| for one. I don't know if they are as strict with their
| requirements as Google.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppNexus
| roenxi wrote:
| I'll re-put what I'm thinking:
|
| The technology behind the fediverse is an important brick, so
| PeerTube 3 is interesting. But the house will only be
| liveable when someone figures out how companies like AppNexus
| integrate profitably and successfully into the fediverse.
| [deleted]
| jrnichols wrote:
| > but the really important part of the puzzle is the advertiser
| network
|
| If your main goal is "How can I make money?" then maybe. And
| that's one of the huge reasons that YouTube is the mess that it
| is.
|
| For the rest of us, this is not important at all. In fact, I am
| happy that there is _no_ advertiser network whatsoever. if I
| put something on the web, I do not do it because I expect
| compensation. I am not alone in this sentiment.
| tastyfreeze wrote:
| Most content creators need to be compensated to continue
| making content. Advertising isn't the only solution but it
| does allow viewers to watch without paying.
|
| PeerTube needs content creators to get on board. Having
| options for monetizing content could encourage creators to
| use PeerTube.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| That might have been a problem a few years ago, but by now
| many content creators are not solely relying on advertising
| money (which itself was prompted by YouTube fucking up).
| LockAndLol wrote:
| TL;DR We don't need ads.
|
| There's a possibility to add donation links and the icon is
| then visible on every video. Patreon is big for a reason:
| people actually use it.
|
| I'd rather donate to the content creators I want to see
| thrive than be bombarded with ads for things I don't want
| anyway.
|
| The peertube devs refuse to incorporate monetization beyond
| donations, but they DO have a plugin system. It's not
| beyond imagination for someone (person or group) to add
| something like "paid scrobbling" where people add e.g 5EUR
| on their account and then it's divided depending on certain
| criteria. That criteria could be for example:
|
| - always give 50% to my subscriptions
|
| - give the rest to creators of videos that I have watched
| which: * have these tags * are
| longer than 5 minutes * and that I have watched
| at least 50% or 5 minutes of, which ever comes first
|
| All of these would be opt-in or course to reduce the
| likelihood of uploaders artificially lengthening or
| shortening their videos (those magic 10 minutes on
| youtube), or trying to discover common user settings and
| tailoring their videos to fit those settings.
|
| Tada. No ads, user-defined distribution of resources, yada
| yada.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Patreon has its own issues. I wished it would be less
| dominant in the English-speaking donation 'market'.
|
| I was hoping that Flattr would be able to provide a
| Chromium-free, 'Brave-like' experience, especially with
| their browser plugin, but if anything it has been losing
| popularity (despite being years older than Patreon!).
|
| For a reason that escapes me, they even recently decided
| to officially remove their plugin, so now they can even
| hardly be differentiated from the other Patreon-likes.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15557954
|
| https://github.com/flattr/flattr-extension/
| LockAndLol wrote:
| Same. I was also hoping to find something that doesn't
| require me to have a credit card, only accepts USD, and
| *has* to go through a third party.
|
| Flattr uses credit cards exclusively, Liberapay only uses
| Stripe, Patreon a host of third parties but no direct
| transfers, and I have checked out the rest.
|
| Why can't I just transfer the amount I want, when I want,
| directly to another bank without an intermediary? I'm
| fine with the donation subscription service knowing how
| much and to whom I'm donating and taking out but why does
| it have to talk to so many other services I haven't
| picked or agreed to interact with?
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Well, transferring money worldwide is pretty hard -
| cryptocurrencies wouldn't have had the same popularity if
| it wasn't.
| papaf wrote:
| _Most content creators need to be compensated to continue
| making content._
|
| Most videos are made by professionals? That's not my
| experience.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| At this point I wouldn't be surprised if most video views
| were made on content whose creators are at least trying
| to make a living out of it.
| Yetanfou wrote:
| The mere fact that you use the terms "content" and "content
| creators" stems from the fact that you're talking about a
| different category of creator, namely those whose role is
| to pull in eyes to see the ads which make money for the
| site owner. The parent poster wants people to see the
| videos he puts out and is not in it for the money. In the
| first case the video distribution system is a tool to make
| money, in the second it is a tool to distribute videos.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| > _Most content creators need to be compensated to continue
| making content._
|
| That's the problem right there. "Content creators". Protein
| factories churning out videos for money.
|
| Not every platform needs "content creators" - sometimes
| people with interesting things to share are enough, and
| these tend to use side revenue to fund their sharing.
| pjmlp wrote:
| The problem with side revenue is that is usually only
| available to people with already a good position in the
| society.
|
| Others mostly need to match their hobbies with a side
| job.
| tastyfreeze wrote:
| What other moniker would you give to people that create
| videos for others to consume regardless of financial
| incentive?
|
| Many of the YouTube channels I consume didnt start for
| any other reason than making things for others. They
| found popularity and decided to make a go at doing it
| professionally. Making quality content cost money and
| time. Expecting everybody to make videos on their own
| dime for posterity is unrealistic.
| [deleted]
| cfn wrote:
| Spot on, YouTube was once full of people like that.
| wilsynet wrote:
| Is it ideological activism to enforce the terms of service
| which prohibit the incitement of violence?
| toolz wrote:
| To directly answer your question, I would say no - however it
| is ideological activism to only enforce those ToS for
| specific services. The #killallmen hashtag has trended more
| than once on twitter, for example.
| wilsynet wrote:
| Agreed. Twitter should enforce this more consistently.
| toolz wrote:
| I would suggest in this specific incidence they are
| enforcing it very consistently in that they aren't
| punishing anyone for inciting that particular type of
| violence.
| cortesoft wrote:
| Sure, but no one has actually tried to kill all men. They
| didn't do this latest action until after people were
| actually killed by the violence incited.
| roenxi wrote:
| That is giving "kill all men" a metaphorical reading.
| That is a fair reading, it probably isn't actually a call
| to violence, they just feel frustrated about something.
|
| The issue is that a fair reading is not being applied
| evenly. Twitter interprets "To all of those who have
| asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January
| 20th" [0] as a call to violence. That isn't even close to
| a fair metaphorical reading, and it was probably meant
| literally.
|
| [0] https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/su
| spensio...
| etchalon wrote:
| The post made clear that it wasn't about the tweet
| itself, but the broader context and how the tweet was
| being interpreted by communities who sought to do harm.
|
| You can argue that's not fair to Trump, and don't pretend
| his accounts were banned for the literal meaning of the
| words, when the post you linked to makes clear the
| thinking behind the decision.
| throwaway316943 wrote:
| This is the "video games cause violence argument"
| cortesoft wrote:
| That is no way comparable. This would be like if there
| was a video game where you killed politicians with
| machetes and then suddenly a bunch of politicians were
| killed in machete attacks.
|
| At that point, you wouldn't be able to say the video game
| was not a cause. This is not blaming Trump for abstract
| violence in general, but for specific violence that he
| called for actually happening.
| cortesoft wrote:
| Right, but the violence actually happened. If we suddenly
| had people reading the #killallmen hashtag as literal,
| and start killing men, then Twitter would likely ban it.
| Once Trump's tweets led to an actual terrorist attack,
| they banned him.
|
| It is not a perfect system, but I think banning based on
| result is not an unfair system.
| rzz3 wrote:
| It is still a very direct call to violence.
| wilsynet wrote:
| Is it a credible call to violence, or is it more of a
| figure of speech?
|
| I'd say that Trump's calls to violence are pretty
| credible.
| toolz wrote:
| which message from trump was a call to violence?
| Genuinely asking as I probably haven't followed this
| whole mess as closely as I could've
| astrange wrote:
| Has anyone attempted to kill all men?
| toolz wrote:
| After a quick search, yes there is at least one incident
| of a woman who killed a boy and stated that she wanted to
| kill all men. There may be more, I haven't spent much
| time on the subject, either way the definition of
| incitement doesn't require anyone to follow through with
| the incited actions.
| wilsynet wrote:
| I definitely think that the person who killed a boy and
| stated that she wants to kill all men -- I definitely
| think they shouldn't have a Twitter account
|
| Has Twitter been made aware of this person and won't
| suspend their account?
| odessacubbage wrote:
| valerie solanas comes to mind
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| The advertiser network is one of the main things that Flixxo
| has tried to capitalize on, but with YouTube(/Twitch) being so
| dominant, and them being backed up by Google(/Amazon), it so
| far doesn't seem to be able to break out of its South American
| bubble.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Flixxo/wiki/index
| hobofan wrote:
| Advertisement on Youtube is as irrelevant as it has ever been.
|
| After the "Adpocalypse" where the money you could make from
| advertisement significantly dropped for most creators, they
| recognized that relying only on Youtube is a bad idea and
| diversified. Since then other avenues (Twitch, Patreon, merch,
| ad placements) have become their primary sources of income.
|
| For mid-size creators Youtube ads are not enough to make a
| living from it and for big creators with low production
| expenses (e.g. gaming videos) that _could_ make a living from
| it, it's not a significant portion of their income if they
| diversified (and most creators that haven't are not on the
| platform anymore).
| berkes wrote:
| > If Silicon Valley continues to drift into ideological
| activism
|
| Just to be clear (and pedantic): Peertube is French.
|
| One could see these fediversed projects as counter-SV,
| actually. Not 'coming from SV', but attacking the SV status
| quo.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Indeed, they are staunchly anti-GAFAM + :
|
| https://degooglisons-internet.org/en/
|
| And have pretty much became a reference for libre
| alternatives :
|
| https://degooglisons-internet.org/en/alternatives
|
| + By the way it's a very SV thing to do to think that
| everything revolves around SV, and therefore excluding
| Microsoft from the list of the problematic companies. (And
| including Netflix, which is problematic in its own ways, but
| at least an order of magnitude less than the "big 5".) Sadly,
| some politicians have also been dropping the trailing M, I
| guess that those big contracts with the military and the
| healthcare sector have something to do with that...
| qwantim1 wrote:
| I don't agree.
|
| It's _an_ important thing, not _the_ important thing.
|
| This is a great alternative to sharing large video files with
| others by having someone else just watch what they want of it,
| if you want to ensure it's more permanent than- let's say-
| Google Music.
|
| If the fear is that an evil Google competitor will come along
| that will do more damage- this wouldn't enable that. That would
| take a serious amount of funding and technology, not a free
| clone of YouTube without all of the infrastructural backing.
| judge2020 wrote:
| That's kind of an issue then - YouTube is only partly
| (probably a single-digit-percent given they dropped the
| direct share feature[0]) about sharing videos with friends -
| most people stick around for the recommendations, ie. the
| endless stream of interesting/intriguing/funny content. Most
| of that content currently dominating YT (at least, at the
| quantity that it's produced) is only possible due to these
| creators making YouTube their full-time job and getting paid
| to do it. Linus Tech Tips (which also runs Techquickie and
| Techlinked) attributes 26% of their total revenue to YT
| Ads[1], and the other categories (like merchandise/affiliate
| links) aren't something everyone can do if their videos
| aren't about products available on Amazon or can't grow their
| merch at the rate LTT does. If PT is just about sharing
| videos, then you might as well run a nextcloud instance
| instead since 'no ads' is a huge downside to PT for creators.
|
| 0: https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/21/youtube-is-closing-its-
| pri...
|
| 1: https://youtu.be/-zt57TWkTF4?t=395
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| You're forgetting about donations / patronage, which
| everyone can do and I'm willing to bet has been growing in
| share for the past years.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| I'm pretty sure that one of the main reasons that YouTube
| 'won' is that it was easy to just share these videos with
| friends/family, and _also_ straightforward to enable
| /disable public sharing of them.
|
| I've never even heard of that 'direct share' feature, but
| have used the private and unreferenced settings on my
| videos many times over the years.
| Nic0 wrote:
| Framasoft who is behind this is famous in french opensource
| community for almost two decade. I guess it's unknown outside
| France?
| moreati wrote:
| Probably. I've also been in Open Source around 20 years, UK
| based. I don't recall hearing about Framasoft before.
| LockAndLol wrote:
| Opensource needs to somehow unify. With more awareness of
| open-source developers and projects between each other, we
| could maybe make some real difference.
|
| Opensource devs and maintainers could all from each other and
| collaborate together.
|
| Damn... I sound like a business person that throws around
| words like synergy.
| MayeulC wrote:
| Framasoft is more about spreading the word than actual
| development, though. It is not _that_ surprising it 's
| little known abroad.
| tarkin2 wrote:
| Can you see what IPs are watching what videos, as with
| bittorrent?
| Imnimo wrote:
| I spent like 20 minutes trying to find something I would
| legitimately want to watch on PeerTube and came up empty. I can't
| tell if it's because PeerTube just happens to have a different
| type of content than what I like to watch, or because I don't
| understand how to make the best use of the search functionality,
| or if the search functionality is just bad. Regardless, it's a
| real tough sell for me to replace YouTube with a video service
| where I can't find anything I want to watch!
| qznc wrote:
| It would be great if https://media.ccc.de/ would switch to
| PeerTube but they have their own stack. Still, conference
| videos are one way to resolve the chicken egg problem.
| sundarurfriend wrote:
| Your comment prompted me to dig up a Peertube instance list I'd
| posted elsewhere, I added it as a top level comment:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25712951
| LockAndLol wrote:
| Some instances have global search (search across instances)
| activated, but there's also a website written by the devs of
| peertube to do that global search https://sepiasearch.org/
|
| You can use that to first find the videos you like and decide
| if you like the instances they are on.
|
| Edit: To be honest, I spend 20 minutes on youtube trying to
| find the stuff that I want to watch and give up often too.
| Their content discovery really is terrible and only shows the
| highest rated and most watched, which doesn't help if you've
| watched them already.
| Imnimo wrote:
| Yeah, I tried SepiaSearch, but I couldn't find anything. As
| an example, I searched for "Golf". The first two videos are
| Twitch clips of people playing video game mini-golf and "golf
| bowling". Then there's a video about the Trump administration
| and coronavirus, and then a bunch of videos on topics that
| have low edit distance, like "wolf" and "gold".
|
| Maybe that's just a bad topic and no one is uploading golf
| content to PeerTube.
| kylebenzle wrote:
| YouTube used to be like that. I think most people don't realize
| that for years YouTube was only good for watching Simpsons and
| Family Guy episodes. Without that start it never would have
| taken off.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| I've been using YouTube since almost the beginning and have
| never even bothered with using it to watch traditional TV
| (legal or illegal).
|
| Instead, when I remember that time (Google Video still was a
| competitor), things like these come to mind :
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpKqQxTURik
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0cq2ymJu7g
|
| (ok, this last one actually predates YouTube by a decade :
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/19991012210910/http://tie-
| tanic....
|
| "Expect about a 4 hour download time for the 48 Meg. [13 min?
| 5 min? QuickTime .mov] Version using a 56K connection." )
| [deleted]
| riffic wrote:
| You can't put the ActivityPub ecosystem back inside its bottle.
| While it seems like (this is a commonly heard complaint) "no one
| is there", this is simply untrue. The ecosystem is vibrant,
| healthy, and will keep growing.
|
| in my mind there will eventually be a tipping point, but it
| doesn't need to happen immediately. It would be nice to see more
| media establish a presence there though.
|
| edit: one of my favorite PeerTube instances is
| https://tilvids.com -- an edutainment video community.
| jamesrcole wrote:
| > _The ecosystem is vibrant, healthy, and will keep growing._
|
| I'm in favour of it, and hope it does well. But at the same
| time, constant growth itself doesn't mean that much.
|
| There's a big difference between slow constant growth and
| explosive constant growth. Something can constantly grow yet
| still remain something most people have never heard of. I think
| Linux on the desktop is a reasonable example of this.
|
| The alternatives will likely be constantly growing as well.
|
| > _in my mind there will eventually be a tipping point_
|
| it's going to be difficult to compete against YouTube... there
| has to be some reason why people use it instead of YouTube.
| kitotik wrote:
| Why does it need to compete with YouTube? Is it really a
| zerosum situation?
| jamesrcole wrote:
| It doesn't need to. But obviously there are people who want
| it to be at least fairly well used.
|
| The value of such a thing has a lot to do with how many
| people use it and how much content there is. You need users
| to give incentive for people to upload content. And you
| need content to incentivize new users.
| monopoledance wrote:
| I disagree. Value here is a matter of quality, not
| quantity, and impact on humanity's welfare. Most
| "network-effect successful" networks have a low and
| decreasing signal-noise ratio, they merely produce
| unqualified "content" for the most part.
|
| Tech diversity in itself is a value, even if the niche
| players never leave the niche for the most part.
| Diversity allows for adaptability in a changing
| environment/crisis.
|
| I believe the mass social network epoche is about to end,
| as the advertisement/influence ecosystem is eating up its
| island's last trees. The dream of the global internet
| failed, for reasons we can't fix. ActivityPub is much
| better fitting a fragmented network.
| [deleted]
| riffic wrote:
| You know, Linux in general is probably the best example of
| this. Its success doesn't need to be defined by the desktop.
|
| When people bring up desktop Linux, I always bring up that
| Linux impacts 100% of internet users because of its presence
| running web applications, and it impacts however many people
| who use Android or other Linux devices (embedded/IoT).
| Automotive is even a huge sector these days.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Depends on how one pats their back and the actual reality.
|
| Yes, Android runs on Linux, yet that is 100% meaningless
| for app developers targeting Android.
|
| Web developers don't care about what OS the browser is
| running on.
|
| Native Android developers have a Java Framework and Kotlin
| libraries to work with, which are completely unrelated to
| Linux.
|
| However they also have the NDK, one would say. Yes, indeed.
|
| So what are the public APIs?
|
| https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis
|
| And recent versions will kill apps that try to be clever
| and access private APIs,
|
| https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/06/android-
| ch...
|
| https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2017/07/seccomp-
| fi...
|
| As for automotive, while Automotive Grade Linux is getting
| some love, it is still not an option for real time
| requirements.
| namibj wrote:
| RT_PREEMPT is very much capable of real-time
| applications. Outside of control loops faster than a
| couple kHz, it's even suitable for hard real-time
| applications.
|
| But those issues aren't fixed with Linux, but rather with
| CPUs design for hard real-time usage.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Industry seems to think otherwise.
|
| That still isn't a match for something like INTEGRITY OS,
| vxWorks, QNX when human lives are at risk.
|
| Or why despite using an heavily modified Linux kernel as
| basis for Azure Sphere, Microsoft rather advocates Azure
| RTOS for real time tasks.
|
| https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/internet-of-
| things/co...
|
| Or why the Linux Foundation, ironically pushes Zephyr for
| such purposes, completely unrelated to Linux source code.
|
| https://www.zephyrproject.org/
| RMPR wrote:
| > there has to be some reason why people use it instead of
| YouTube.
|
| I had non-technical people in my family asking me Youtube
| alternatives because they were afraid of censorship. I think
| the reasons are already there[0] but there are no "peertube
| marketing department" taking care of conversion.
|
| 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_suspensions
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| That has me concerned that nutjob right wing conspiracy
| theorists are going to flock to PeerTube just as they did
| voat and parler. So long as they maintain their own stuff
| which is what I understand as to how this all works, thats
| fine. I just wouldn't want their stuff to pop up in other
| instances so that they're filtered out by default.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| YouTubers have been complaining about YouTube for nearly a
| decade now :
|
| http://angryjoeshow.com/ajsa/forums/topic/10325-youtube-
| beco...
|
| http://angryjoeshow.com/ajsa/forums/topic/10553-youtube-
| copy...
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20200806101856/http://www.joueu
| r... (fr)
|
| But in 2013 there were no real alternatives. This has
| started to change in the recent years.
| cinquemb wrote:
| Yup, same with whats going on in defi with stable coins... as
| the existing system crowds people out and benefits fewer and
| fewer people more, more people will be incentivized to seek out
| alternatives
| berkes wrote:
| > The ecosystem is vibrant, healthy, and will keep growing. > >
| in my mind there will eventually be a tipping point,
|
| Why do so many people insist on Growth and Largest, as metrics
| for 'success'?
|
| My local pub is a success. They are not worlds' largest pub. My
| Mom and Granny don't go there. They don't have parties with
| millions of people crammed in the place. Etc.
|
| Why can't Linux be called 'a success', the very moment that it
| helps one person? Why don't we call Mastodon or Peertube a
| success the very moment a tiny group of people uses and likes
| it? Why do we insist that Peertube is only successful when my
| mom and my Granny use it? Why do we insist on huge market
| shares to call open source successful?
| slx26 wrote:
| Your local pub might be trying to offer an alternative to
| local people staying on their homes watching tv instead.
| Linux and peertube are trying to offer an alternative to
| something of a much bigger scale, and most likely with more
| pressing ethical concerns (they often want to drive people
| away from the current mainstream option for ethical reasons).
| Not everyone might share that view, but they are definitely
| different situations. Not saying you don't have a point, but
| we can't ignore the differences in context.
| harperlee wrote:
| Cost of physical distance enables niches that can be served
| by your local pub. If we could teleport (well, and cohabit
| the exact same space and tune out conversations of others at
| will so crowdiness is not an issue) they would have a much
| much harder time selling something unique. Scale aids in
| bringing people in, because it becomes the default choice.
| samaxe wrote:
| You contradict, and invalidate yourself, in your own
| argument.
|
| > they (the local pub) would have a much harder time
| selling something unique
|
| > Scale ...becomes the default choice
|
| Scale and monopoly removes choice and uniqueness.
|
| There are people that love Starbucks, there are also people
| that love their local coffee shop.
| harperlee wrote:
| I don't those two thing are contradictory, it's just that
| you are assuming you don't get uniqueness inside a
| monopolistic platform, which is only partially true. The
| platform is fixed, but you get uniqueness _inside_ the
| platform, with the content and contacts you follow.
| Facebook, reddit, etc. are not the same experience for
| all users. Comparing a network, where each vantage point
| is unique with Starbucks, which has maybe 50 products, is
| not an apt analogy.
| M2Ys4U wrote:
| I tend to avoid larger pubs because the quality of
| experience in smaller ones tends to be better.
|
| Quantity has a quality of its own, and it's not always a
| good thing.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| I used to think differently, but I am starting to agree. Part
| of the issues with current generation of software is that it
| is effectively intended for masses, who barely understand
| what is happening under the hood or what is possible
| resulting in software that looks pretty, has severely limited
| options and constantly calls home for 'diagnostic' purposes.
|
| That said, commercially, it is hard to argue with adoption as
| a metric. Problem is, focusing on that metric results in the
| same bs as in the real world: consumer ( crap tier ) and
| business ( good tier that tends to have good options if you
| are willing to spend money ).
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| Aren't local pubs in the UK and certain other countries now
| mainly owned by corporate chains, not independent? In that
| case, there is definitely a concern with growth, though it
| might not be readily visible to patrons.
| [deleted]
| ge96 wrote:
| Random side note, what if they have a mass-marketed "echo-like"
| device that is to form a meshnet that's not part of the regular
| internet. Would it happen?
|
| I get it's not like a trans atlantic line connecting continents
| and bandwidth etc... but other than jamming it would be "free".
| The other paranoia is hardware backdoor/software itself eg. AES
| encryption... seems overkill
| LockAndLol wrote:
| There are meshnet projects out there. As for devices, you could
| try the Freedombox?
|
| https://freedombox.org/#get
| ge96 wrote:
| Wow that's cool thanks for that link will check that out
| astrange wrote:
| Then you'd have to talk to your neighbors, who as we can see on
| Best of Nextdoor are not that fun to be on an internet forum
| with.
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