[HN Gopher] Some Tesla Model 3 rear windows shatter spontaneously
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Some Tesla Model 3 rear windows shatter spontaneously
Author : giuliomagnifico
Score : 47 points
Date : 2021-01-09 18:48 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.carscoops.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.carscoops.com)
| glaberficken wrote:
| Is that snow in the background? Probably a temperature thing?
| (lack of enough testing in low temperatures?) Can be that the
| glass is fine but that the frame surrounding the glass is
| contracting too much or twisting in the "wrong" direction when
| cooled. Causing the glass to shatter.
| giuliomagnifico wrote:
| Also my thoughts are about temps differences between inside and
| outside, or the window was getting very cold for the first
| time, the tolerances were too tight and krack... it's a
| supposition.
| jdxcode wrote:
| Considering the other video has the reflection of a palm tree
| I'd guess it's not a significant contributor.
| einarfd wrote:
| I have a Model 3 where the rear window developed cracks and the
| integrated heating in it stopped working. Tesla exchanged it
| under warranty, and I haven't had any problems with the new one.
| I'm not an expert, but my impressions is that these things
| happens from time to time. Safety glass doesn't like to be under
| tension and if you mess up the mounting of it, and do that, it
| can crack or break.
| fergie wrote:
| Spontaneous shattering of safety glass is more common that you
| might think:
| https://www.google.com/search?q=shower+door+spontaneously+sh...
| tomcam wrote:
| I'll be damned. Happened in my house a couple years ago and I
| realize now I had unconsciously blamed my kid who was taking a
| shower at the time. Thank you.
| mdorazio wrote:
| This happens to non-Tesla cars as well. My friend's Ford Fusion
| side window randomly shattered without an impact when we were
| driving on the freeway. The glass repair guy that replaced it
| wasn't even surprised.
| bwanab wrote:
| When it happens to Tesla, it's news. Otherwise, it isn't.
| merlinscholz wrote:
| A one-off case isn't news. If it happens repeatedly to the
| same model, then it is news
| falcolas wrote:
| > When it happens to Tesla, it's defended [by Tesla's
| volunteer PR department]. Otherwise, it's not.
|
| Feels slightly more accurate.
| approxim8ion wrote:
| I've noticed that Tesla tends to get away with a lot of QC issues
| and lack of some creature comforts because it allows people to
| feel like they are part of "the future", but also maybe because
| the ride/drive experience is perhaps good enough to gloss over
| any imperfections.
| danhak wrote:
| More to do with the fact that Tesla is under a microscope and
| QC issues and mishaps with other automakers are usually not
| newsworthy.
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| I've never heard of the kind of issues people have with
| Teslas before, two of my bosses had Model X's that needed
| extensive repairs after delivery because mostly everything
| was misaligned. It's not that theyre under a microscope, It's
| that the quality is worse than many other brands while being
| valued like they are.
|
| Elon said himself the hard part was mass manufacturing the
| damn things, and they're clearly failing to do so properly.
| nabilhat wrote:
| When door windows (that go up and down) randomly pop it's
| typically a regulator that's gone out of alignment. Sometimes one
| side of the regulator has jumped off track, or one side gets
| sticky and hangs up. The whole raising and lowering the window
| mechanism provides lots of opportunity to put a kink in some
| tempered glass - _especially_ when that window is designed to fit
| tightly to shut out wind noise or improve aerodynamics.
|
| A quick search suggests that Tesla's had intermittent window
| regulator problems in the model 3 and others, and there sure are
| a lot of ads for replacement/rebuilt Model 3 rear door window
| regulators.
| syspec wrote:
| The power of Elon Musk is having had convinced people these are
| high quality luxury cars even through a constant stream of issues
| such as this, cars catching on fire, the makeshift Home Depot
| repaired before being shipped out issue, or the random
| misalignment issues, etc
| WalterBright wrote:
| I was driving my Mustang one day when the windshield suddenly
| shattered.
|
| Turns out some kid threw a brick at it.
| primitivesuave wrote:
| Hopefully you intervened on that kid before he starts throwing
| things off highway overpasses.
|
| https://abcnews.go.com/US/teen-threw-rock-off-highway-overpa...
| WalterBright wrote:
| I called the cops, but it was night and there was no way.
| Hamuko wrote:
| There was recently a local news story where someone threw a log
| at a car from an overpass. Nasty work.
|
| https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/59ccdab0-e9aa-486e-88da-9...
| aejnsn wrote:
| Not news. Tempered glass pops all the time. Its purpose and
| manufacturing process are indicative as to why this happens.
| specialp wrote:
| "Although the video is somewhat grainy, the fact that they burst
| outward, rather than inward, would seem to suggest that the
| inciting force wasn't a pebble or other object striking the
| window from outside."
|
| That is actually not true with vehicle windows. They often are
| tempered and layered so they usually pop back with the force of
| getting something hit and blast out. Not saying this isn't
| spontaneous but my experience with car windows breaking is most
| of the glass ends up on the outside when struck from the outside.
| jhayward wrote:
| Guess what? Ford F-150 rear windows shatter spontaneously too.
| It's a known problem, truck owners hope it happens before the
| warranty runs out because otherwise they're on the hook for a
| $1000 replacement.
|
| Why is this on HN?
| jibcage wrote:
| From my armchair, it sounds like the glass manufacturing might be
| rushed. How frequent is this a problem with other car
| manufacturers?
| tsomctl wrote:
| I'm sitting in an office chair, not an armchair, but I'm
| thinking the steel frame it was glued to flexed. The inside
| pressure theory doesn't make sense. Modern cars are well
| sealed, but you still have flaps at the back of the car to let
| air out, and they are loose enough to let air in.
| ericd wrote:
| Not an expert, but my understanding is that tempered safety
| glass (which the rear/side windows are made of, vs laminated
| like windshields) is under a lot of internal pressure/strain.
| And that that's one of the reasons that when it goes, it
| really goes.
| nexuist wrote:
| Might be interesting to see if this phenomenon applies to
| Model X and S, as they should theoretically be totally sealed
| to enable the Bioweapon Defense Mode.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > they should theoretically be totally sealed to enable the
| Bioweapon Defense Mode.
|
| Isn't bioweapon defense mode HEPA filter plus overpressure,
| not a totally sealed cabin?
| reportingsjr wrote:
| It wasn't common until the last few years according to sources
| in other comments here. Since 2016 it has become more common in
| a variety of brands.
| mnd999 wrote:
| Seems unlikely Tesla make their own glass, probably just buy it
| from the same place other manufacturers do.
| guerby wrote:
| Tesla glass is made by Saint-Gobain:
|
| https://electrek.co/2019/09/26/tesla-model-3-body-in-
| white-g...
|
| "Saint-Gobain, a long-term glass supplier for Tesla,
| established a factory in the Lingang industrial zone to
| supply Tesla for the Chinese-made Model 3 vehicles and it
| plans to start mass production on October 14 to match Tesla.
|
| Ma Jun, head of Saint-Gobain Sekurit's Lingang factory,
| commented: (...)"
|
| Also found in the USA:
|
| https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanvoisin/ "Stephan Voisin
| Business Director TESLA at Saint-Gobain Sekurit Los Angeles
| Metropolitan Area"
| Closi wrote:
| The last post on Tesla quality had people stating that real
| consumers didn't care about the quality issues and it was mostly
| car snobs whining about panel gaps.
|
| I expect similar quotes in here about how it's totally normal for
| glass to shatter within 2 minutes of delivery.
|
| Before everyone else says it - no Tesla won't make its own glass
| - but it will specify it and should be QC testing it. Maybe glass
| occasionally does the same for other vendors, but this does seem
| to be another data point in the weekly series of 'Embarrassing QC
| issue that gets defended'.
| miked85 wrote:
| It looks like your expectation was correct; it is amazing how
| many people in this thread are saying that it is totally normal
| for glass to spontaneously shatter in vehicles.
| Closi wrote:
| Amazing but entirely unsurprising!
|
| I mean a Tesla is still my dream car even considering the
| obvious quality issues, but I'll wait until they are more
| mature at manufacturing before one is my next car.
| gumby wrote:
| There are two different issues. Yes QC should be catching this,
| and perhaps is (this might be one either not sampled or which
| passed). QC isn't magical, and as I learned from working in the
| pharma business: "You can't test quality into a product".
|
| This seems from reports to be a more serious Q _A_ issue.
| Incoming materials QC is part of QA and presumably this passed
| (the automotive glass suppliers are pretty used to making auto
| glass and most cars don 't have this problem). But QA should
| have reviewed the design so that breaking stresses can't occur.
| _That_ (lack of proper design review) is the problem, and
| appears from reports to be chronic through certain parts of the
| Tesla process.
|
| When I say "certain parts of the process", for example I mean
| battery fires are pretty rare so presumably that team takes QA
| seriously (batteries are no joke!). While body defects and
| failures are rampant and very widely attested. (I believe the
| big touchscreens also have a lot of problems but as I don't
| follow it closely I might have just seen an unusual number of
| complaints.)
|
| So: fixable, thought there doesn't appear to be a culture of
| addressing these things.
| [deleted]
| kemiller wrote:
| I think it's not so much that, it's that things like this
| really do happen to all car manufacturers, but anything Tesla
| always makes news. Not to say they don't have quality issues --
| they totally do -- but they tend to be overblown because of the
| massive attention they get.
| loganfrederick wrote:
| Part of the reason for Tesla's quality issues getting extra
| attention is because their brand positioning is very much
| about how they are superior than the competition and more of
| a "tech" company than a car company. So for an alleged "tech"
| company to have equal to or worse quality issues in an old
| industry, and possibly lagging its competitors in this
| quality regard, is inviting critics to call Tesla and Elon
| out as hypocrites.
|
| I am not currently short Tesla and not all criticism against
| them is fair. My point is more along the lines of "If you
| make big claims and brag about yourself, the onus is on you
| to deliver."
| shiftpgdn wrote:
| It /is/ totally normal for large sheets of safety glass to
| shatter. Ive owned lots of enthusiast cars and in the
| enthusiast pickup truck world it's completely normal to have
| your rear glass or sunroof explode.
|
| I think people get so wound up about this because they've
| driven budget cars their whole life and a Tesla is their first
| big purchase and don't have any contextual understanding of
| advanced car parts going wrong.
| sockittome wrote:
| enthusiast car and pickup truck in the same sentence
| unironically. lol
|
| "One of these things is not like the other things..."
| cosmodisk wrote:
| How is this normal? In my 36 years I've never heard of anyone
| ever mentioning this happening to them,even though people
| have gone through multiple cars,etc. Is that a thing with the
| American cars?
| jdxcode wrote:
| Of course it's not normal. Well, unless you park on the
| street in the mission district.
| miked85 wrote:
| I must be very lucky, I have owned many vehicles and never
| had rear glass or sunroof explode on me.
| akmarinov wrote:
| To be fair, sunroofs are known to explode from time to time
| - https://jalopnik.com/here-are-all-the-cars-reported-to-
| have-...
|
| That said, Tesla's QC is horrible, even more at the end of
| each quarter. They don't care since they sell every car
| they make for now.
| gamblor956 wrote:
| That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. It's not
| normal for safety glass to _spontaneously_ shatter absent
| manufacturing or installation defects.
| zrobotics wrote:
| OK, no it is not. I worked as a mechanic for 6 years at an
| off-road shop, and I never heard of this being normal. You
| would need to provide some sort of citation for this being a
| normal phenomena.
|
| E: the only times I have heard of glass shattering like this
| for enthusiast vehicles is the people who compete in audio
| competitions, but if you have 10k watts of subwoofers in a
| car then windows shattering isn't exactly spontaneous.
| shiftpgdn wrote:
| News Story on F150 exploding glass:
| https://fordauthority.com/2017/12/another-
| ford-f-150-owner-c...
|
| Over 1000 post results on this specific F150 Forum: https:/
| /www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS840US840&biw=1...
|
| Lawsuit against mercedes for exploding glass:
| https://www.consumernotice.org/legal/mercedes-benz-
| exploding...
|
| Class action against vw for exploding sunroofs:
| https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2017/volkswagen-
| exploding...
|
| Saftey glass is created under extreme tension. It is normal
| for it to explode. It is only newsworth because it happened
| on a Tesla.
| gamblor956 wrote:
| Yes, and you'll note that in every case, an installation
| defect was at issue: for the F150s, defective rear
| defrosters created unnatural stresses on the rear
| windows, causing them to shatter; for the sunroofs,
| improper installation was identified as the cause in the
| lawsuits.
|
| Importantly, across more than 100 million cars and 20
| years, fewer than 1000 combined cases of shattered rear
| windows or sun roofs were recorded.
|
| Tesla has had more than a dozen reported cases of
| shattered rear windows in the last 2 years alone. That's
| industry leading, and not in a good way.
| jdxcode wrote:
| My guess is the glass is fine. The panel gaps are probably a
| symptom of the same problem of general misalignment putting too
| much strain on the glass.
| Ekaros wrote:
| I would also venture to guess that it is either installation
| problem or issue with body part.
| uncledave wrote:
| Sound about right. I know a former model 3 owner. The factory
| paint job was absolutely terrible. I mean really bad. You could
| see runs and patching. About two months after getting it he
| finally acknowledged this and it hurt. Posted a complaint about
| it on one of the forums and everyone jumped to Tesla's defence
| and said he was making a drama out of it.
|
| Eventually all the stupid little QC issues add up. He's not a
| Tesla owner now. Bought a Citroen C5 aircross.
| buzzerbetrayed wrote:
| > I expect similar quotes in here about how it's totally normal
| for glass to shatter within 2 minutes of delivery.
|
| So.. remind me why it's a problem if people don't care about
| panel gaps but do care about windows shattering? How exactly is
| that inconsistent?
| Closi wrote:
| Both are symptoms of poor quality, which is the underlying
| issue.
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