[HN Gopher] They spent 12 years solving a puzzle. It yielded the...
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       They spent 12 years solving a puzzle. It yielded the first Covid-19
       vaccines
        
       Author : sytelus
       Score  : 138 points
       Date   : 2021-01-09 07:39 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nationalgeographic.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nationalgeographic.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | wslh wrote:
       | The should trace it back to "The Birth of Monoclonal Antibodies"
       | [1] where Cesar Milstein [2] did not apply for a patent for his
       | technique [3].
       | 
       | [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/ni.3608
       | 
       | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%A9sar_Milstein
       | 
       | [3]
       | https://www.whatisbiotechnology.org/index.php/exhibitions/mi...
        
       | williesleg wrote:
       | They dragged their feet for 12 years.
        
       | throw0101a wrote:
       | We cannot be predict what will be needed for what:
       | 
       | > _" S glycoprotein signal peptide (extended leader sequence),
       | which guides translocation of the nascent polypeptide chain into
       | the endoplasmic reticulum" - part of the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine.
       | I don't ever want to hear anyone question fundamental science
       | again. 1/2_
       | 
       | > _The level of control and understanding we now have over our
       | biology came from literally millions of person-years spent
       | working on things that at the time were obscure and "useless".
       | And now? We can leverage all this into a 95% efficient vaccine
       | _at the first try_. 2/2_
       | 
       | * https://twitter.com/PowerDNS_Bert/status/1342159339767934978
        
       | endgame wrote:
       | > Jason McLellan was wandering around a ski shop of Utah's Park
       | City Mountain Resort, waiting for his new snowboarding boots to
       | be heat-molded to his size-nine feet, when his smartphone rang.
       | It was Barney Graham, deputy director of the National Institute
       | of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Vaccine Research Center.
       | 
       | For god's sake get to the point already.
        
         | publicola1990 wrote:
         | Yes, truely this style of writing is so tedious. Informative
         | articles should aim to present the matter in the style of an
         | Encyclopedia chapter.
        
         | acl777 wrote:
         | It's NatGeo - they gotta appeal to their current audience...
         | somehow :-)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | subjectsigma wrote:
         | Forget the writing, I didn't get past the title. I hate this
         | modern trend of making the title into multiple clipped
         | sentences. It makes even the most innocuous or mundane concepts
         | sound like clickbait. So obnoxious.
        
       | tigerBL00D wrote:
       | Unlike this relatively new approach adenovirus-based vaccines
       | have been researched and used for over 50 years (350 studies)
       | [1]. An Ebola vaccine has been developed using this same tech.
       | 
       | This is certainly important and impressive work, but the title is
       | inaccurate stating these are the "the first" vaccines. These are
       | definitely the most expensive ones and made for the first word
       | countries with developed and reliable infrastructure able to meet
       | storage requirements. So in some ways they are the first indeed.
       | 
       | 1: https://sputnikvaccine.com/about-vaccine/human-adenoviral-
       | va...
        
         | notacoward wrote:
         | Do you have a link to information about an adenovirus-based
         | COVID vaccine developed and/or approved earlier, at any price
         | point? Without such, the "first" claim is accurate and your
         | disputation is counterfactual. Also, please disclose the nature
         | of any personal stake in promoting one over the other.
        
           | tigerBL00D wrote:
           | If we are talking specifically about which vaccines were the
           | first to get approved see here:
           | https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03441-8
           | 
           | Prices here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.statista.com/ch
           | art/amp/2365...
           | 
           | I don't have any interest in promoting a specific vaccine.
           | Just disdain for skewed reporting. FYI there are multiple
           | adenovirus-based vaccines available (Oxford/AstraZeneca,
           | Sputnik V).
        
             | notacoward wrote:
             | In other words, no, you don't have any links proving any
             | such thing. Your own link shows that mRNA-based
             | Pfizer/BioNTech was approved before adenovirus-based
             | Oxford/AstraZeneca in the UK. Ditto in the US. When you
             | claim that something true is not true, you are the one
             | uttering untruth. Why would you then be surprised by
             | downvotes?
        
               | tigerBL00D wrote:
               | I don't know what you are talking about. Quoting from the
               | first link above:
               | 
               | China and Russia have approved vaccines already, but
               | without waiting for the immunizations to complete the
               | final round of tests in people. Regulators in the United
               | States and the European Union are expected to issue their
               | decisions in the coming weeks.
        
               | notacoward wrote:
               | > without waiting
               | 
               | Not exactly running the same race then, are they? It's a
               | _very_ dubious definition of  "first" and certainly not
               | enough to say someone else's claim is false.
        
         | tigerBL00D wrote:
         | P.S. Not sure why the downvotes without any comments. Did I
         | write something factually inaccurate? But then again it's not
         | surprising because vaccine conversation in some parts of the
         | world (e.g. the US) is shaped predominantly by business
         | interests and politics, not facts.
        
         | mprovost wrote:
         | Approval is one thing involving a whole world of bureaucracy.
         | But the Moderna vaccine was designed by January 13, 2020 and
         | took just 2 days. 2 days plus decades of prior research... This
         | was before the first identified case in the US and in fact
         | before China or the WTO recognised that it could be transmitted
         | between humans.
         | 
         | https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vac...
        
       | mellosouls wrote:
       | FWIW: Recent discussion on the female mRNA innovator allegedly
       | sidelined in her academic career. She isn't mentioned in the
       | article either - I've no idea if she should be - but it seems a
       | relevant recent topic.
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25623616
       | 
       | https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katalin_Karik%C3%B3
        
         | Fnoord wrote:
         | TIL. This woman grew up in Soviet Hungaria, and moved to USA.
        
         | sampo wrote:
         | There is 3 maybe equally important components in the new RNA
         | vaccines:                   Protein: The final product.
         | mRNA: the information carrier.         Lipid bubbles: carrying
         | mRNA into the cells
         | 
         | This article is about the protein. The unmodified virus spike
         | protein is stable only when attached to the protein shell of
         | the virus. These people worked on methods, on how to modify the
         | spike protein so that when it's released alone, without the
         | rest of the virus, it still keeps the same shape and form as
         | when attached to the virus. If you just used to original
         | protein sequence without the rest of the virus, the spike
         | protein would fold into different 3D-shape, and would not work
         | as an antigen. Without this work, the vaccine would not work.
         | 
         | Katalin Kariko invented how to "mask" this foreign mRNA, so
         | human cells accept and use it for protein synthesis. Whereas
         | usually human body attacks foreign RNA vigorously.
         | 
         | The there is the part, where mRNA is packed inside tiny fat
         | bubbles, so it can be transported into human tissue and cells.
         | I think we still haven't seen a submission about this
         | technology here?
        
           | ibaikov wrote:
           | Where can I read more about these technologies and biotech
           | itself? What courses or other learning materials would you
           | recommend?
           | 
           | I'm an absolute beginner, started reading lots of Twitter
           | threads when covid began.
        
           | athriren wrote:
           | this made me curious. it appears the significant advances in
           | liposomes occurred in 1995. i believe doxil was the first
           | drug delivered by a viable liposome product as earlier
           | efforts could not hide the liposomes from the body's immune
           | system.
           | 
           | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01694.
           | ..
        
       | jonplackett wrote:
       | We are so frikkin lucky that this research was already done!
        
         | notsolucky wrote:
         | Sure, you could choose to believe the wild conspiracy theory
         | that a virus kindly waited for us to be ready to create a
         | vaccine for it before it jumped to humans, out of all of human
         | history.
         | 
         | Or you can believe a vastly more probable explanation:
         | correlation due to common cause. Humans have been paying
         | particular attention in the past decade to this spike protein;
         | some of this research led to a vaccine, while another branch of
         | research led to a lab escape. The conspiracy theory of "luck"
         | and kind viruses doesn't even pass the laugh test in
         | comparison.
        
         | rcthompson wrote:
         | Just remember, that "luck" is partially the result of funding
         | the basic and translational research that yielded this
         | breakthrough even _before_ there was an immediate need for it.
        
           | jonplackett wrote:
           | Yeah it was excellent foresight. But we're lucky someone had
           | that foresight!
        
             | jonplackett wrote:
             | In a way we're lucky SARS and MERS fired a warning shot
             | since that's what seems to hack kickstarted all that
             | research.
        
           | oblio wrote:
           | The laser of vaccines :-)
        
         | beerandt wrote:
         | We're lucky that Sars and Mers, which enabled much of this
         | research, were not themselves epidemics of this level.
         | 
         | We had an emergency project then luckily got a decade long
         | deadline extension.
        
         | glandium wrote:
         | Talk about good timing... imagine sars-cov-2 hitting a few
         | years earlier...
        
           | cinntaile wrote:
           | It wouldn't have mattered much in practice. Astrazeneca has
           | also produced a vaccine and it's not an mRNA vaccine. Not
           | trying to downplay the research here, I'm just talking
           | timing.
        
             | maxerickson wrote:
             | _At about the same time, Pfizer and BioNTech spoke with
             | Graham about using the 2P mutation in their vaccine.
             | Because their work was patented and widely published, other
             | drugmakers--including Novavax and Johnson & Johnson--also
             | based their candidates on the design. Pfizer-BioNTech's
             | vaccine would become the first authorized in the U.S. after
             | it showed an impressive 95-percent efficacy rate. Moderna's
             | vaccine was 94-percent effective._
             | 
             | (at least) 4 of the vaccine candidates utilize the research
             | from the article.
        
             | glandium wrote:
             | The technology used for the Oxford/Astrazeneca vaccine,
             | AIUI, was years in the making, and wasn't ready either a
             | few years ago. Again, good timing.
        
           | redis_mlc wrote:
           | corona cases have been traced back to at least Sept. 2019 in
           | China.
           | 
           | Since most people who follow corona think there's about a 50%
           | it came from the Wuhan virus lab, it's a shame they weren't
           | working on a vaccine in Wuhan.
        
           | jonplackett wrote:
           | I reckon 10 years earlier would have been the sweet spot of
           | terrible - most of the world still on rubbish internet.
           | Hardly any online shopping capacity from supermarkets. Zoom
           | non-existent.
        
             | anoncake wrote:
             | The pandemic would likely be over by now because we did not
             | have the means to prolong it.
        
             | nixass wrote:
             | Upside - not so many knuckle draggers having access to
             | cheap phones, unlimited internet and limited intellect. All
             | these "anti" movements and everyones-aunt-with-opinion
             | would not exist, which would be better for everyone's
             | mental health.
        
             | onepointsixC wrote:
             | Is zoom really that much better than Skype circa 2010? I
             | don't use it but there were video conferencing options open
             | back.
        
               | iso1210 wrote:
               | Yes. Video conferencing now is seemless, it wasn't back
               | in 2010.
        
           | vezycash wrote:
           | Or someone cutting their funding because their research area
           | wasn't immediately useful.
        
       | arez wrote:
       | I don't get why nobody is talking about Ingmar Hoerr (Founder of
       | curevac) who found out that you can use RNA as an envelope to
       | send informarion to the immune system. Is every country just
       | supporting "their" scientists or something?
        
         | mensetmanusman wrote:
         | Everyone working on these things is standing on the shoulders
         | of giants. If your story has hero-creep it would be a book :)
         | 
         | It's fine to write these focused articles to teach, it's like
         | analyzing one facet of a diamond. The more the merrier!
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-09 23:02 UTC)