[HN Gopher] Archivists Are Preserving Capitol Hill Riot Livestre...
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Archivists Are Preserving Capitol Hill Riot Livestreams Before
They're Deleted
Author : ironyman
Score : 90 points
Date : 2021-01-08 18:57 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.vice.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.vice.com)
| [deleted]
| aarchi wrote:
| I think this article is missing a decimal point: the archive is
| 12.4GB, not 124GB.
| fasteddie31003 wrote:
| I youtube-dl'd some of the summer riot streams. They are not on
| YouTube now. Just looked at them. Honestly, the riots this summer
| were a bunch of drunk teenagers who were letting off steam. Once
| the liquor store got raided the mood changed from anger to a big
| party. The MAGA capital riot actually looked to have a similar
| party vibe. They just casually all became felons in the process.
| neartheplain wrote:
| > Honestly, the riots this summer were a bunch of drunk
| teenagers who were letting off steam.
|
| I also have an archive of this summer's events. Let's not use
| this moment to downplay the violence of people who may share
| our political sympathies.
|
| 25+ people were killed in the riots this summer. Over $2B was
| done in property damage. Police stations, post offices,
| libraries, and courthouses were stormed and set on fire.
|
| In Portland, rioters with guns and knives threw bombs at a
| courthouse and tried to burn down the Mayor's condo building.
| In Seattle, militants with assault rifles took over part of
| downtown for a month, killing and assaulting people. In DC, a
| mob tried to storm the White House. In Wauwatosa, a mob fired
| shots into the home of a police officer. People in many cities
| were dragged from their vehicles and beaten. Hundreds of
| protestors and police were seriously injured. Many similar
| incidents which I don't have the time to dig up and link right
| now.
|
| There were also many incidents of police brutality, such as the
| clearing of peaceful protestors in Lafayette Square, which
| likewise should not be minimized.
| pjc50 wrote:
| In one case, it was proven to be a provocateur firing on
| police: https://www.startribune.com/charges-boogaloo-bois-
| fired-on-m...
|
| Mind you, most of those rioters had the sense to not live
| stream their crimes.
| neartheplain wrote:
| Yes, and one of the people who stormed the Capitol was a
| known BLM activist [0]. That doesn't mean the overwhelming
| majority of people who stormed the Capitol weren't Trump
| supporters.
|
| The pro-Trump people saying "antifa stormed the Capitol!"
| are less surprising when you recall the those who this
| summer said, "all protest violence is the work of far-right
| agitators!" The arrest records and livestream footage
| clearly prove both groups wrong.
|
| [0] https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/1/7/22219733/utah-
| activist...
| coffeefirst wrote:
| DC resident. They came here with bombs, knives, guns, pepper
| spray, zip ties, set up a gallows on the lawn that's usually
| covered with families and little kids. They attacked police
| officers--one died.
|
| DC is more than capable of handling rowdy protests, we have
| first amendment activity every day. Capitol Police chose not to
| be prepared and declined backup from the other police agencies
| for over an hour after they were overrun.
|
| This was not a joke.
| belorn wrote:
| If someone construct a bomb and brings it to a demonstration,
| it seems at first glance like premeditated and planned and
| not something in the spur of the moment.
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| Depends on what was meant by "a bomb" (hadn't seen the
| details of that story yet). I used to be into building
| model solid-fuel rocket engines. If you have certain two
| common household ingredients and a stove on hand, you can
| make a sizeable one in a couple of minutes. And the
| difference between a rocket engine and a crude pipe bomb is
| whether you stuff the resulting mixture into a plastic pipe
| vs. metal pipe, and whether you seal it off on one or both
| ends. So I can easily imagine some amateur pyrotechnician
| constructing a crude explosive in the heat of the moment
| (that doesn't excuse it in any way, though).
| sonotathrowaway wrote:
| Don't forget the pentagon leaders trump installed after his
| latest purge refused to send in national guard until Virginia
| and Maryland sent in state troopers, then they suddenly
| switched course once they found out the coup was failing.
|
| With the coup failed, it was important to look like they
| weren't complicit and knowingly stood by to allow a terrorist
| attack.
| zappo2938 wrote:
| Clearly you haven't looked at it. The MAGA riot had people with
| guns, pipe bombs, and wrist ties. It was not a party. It was an
| attempted insurrection against a lawfully elected government
| while the military was ordered to stand down and stay away
| while it happened.
| DeafSquid wrote:
| The riots last summer had guns too
| horsemans wrote:
| The riots last summer didn't involve insurrectionists
| violently invading the seat of power of the legislative
| branch with live ammunition intent on disrupting the
| peaceful transfer of power in a democratic republic.
| neartheplain wrote:
| You're right, rioters in DC this summer only tried to
| storm the White House [0].
|
| 72 people were arrested in DC on weapons charges during
| the summer riots [1]. Protestors erected a guillotine in
| front of Jeff Bezos's house [2]. Rioters threw bricks
| through apartment windows and accosted random people on
| the street [3] in scenes reminiscent of the Cultural
| Revolution.
|
| Let's not use the violent insurrection at the Capitol to
| downplay other violent episodes.
|
| [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/politics/washin
| gton-dc...
|
| [1]
| https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/may-2020-january-2021-unrest-
| relate...
|
| [2] https://www.newsweek.com/amazon-protests-guillotine-
| jeff-bez...
|
| [3]
| https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-
| live...
| caconym_ wrote:
| I think a useful yardstick is how many people died. IIRC
| a sum of around 25 deaths was attributed to all of the
| "BLM protests" last year, and I don't recall any police
| deaths that weren't eventually attributed to right-wing
| folks.
|
| The events of this Wednesday, a single (what I would
| call) medium-sized protest, got 5 people killed including
| one policeman, right? So just in terms of the ratio of
| deaths to participator-days, I think this Wednesday's
| event probably has last year's protests beaten by at
| least two orders of magnitude in the loss of life
| department. Even if you take away the two people who
| didn't die from the use of a weapon or a savage beating,
| I think they still got the high score by far.
|
| To be sure, mob violence should be condemned wherever it
| appears. But in judging movements like these, I think
| it's important to keep in mind a sense of
| proportionality, among other things.
| imbnwa wrote:
| The whataboutism is out of control in this discussion.
| Its like people forget these same elements showed up to
| lockdown protests armed and wearing protective vests and,
| most important of all, attempted to kidnap the Governor
| of Michigan. So yeah, its a different thing altogether
| when these elements show up and invade the Capitol
| building
| jspash wrote:
| Whataboutism is so easy to spot yet people step right
| into the trap all the time. But once you can spot it, it
| just takes a quick remark to shut it right down. ie.
| either don't respond at all or kindly ask the whatabouter
| to stick to the topic at hand.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Attempted to kidnap _and execute_ the Governor of
| Michigan.
| imbnwa wrote:
| Can't believe I forgot the best part
| another_sock wrote:
| Yes exactly, the riots and burned down buildings across the
| country over the past few years have just been youthful
| expressions!
| _jal wrote:
| Yeah - all my parties include ziptie restraints, molotov
| cocktails and guns in restricted areas, too.
|
| I don't know if you're intentionally downplaying the violence
| or simply very, very misinformed, but killing a cop with a fire
| extinguisher is not "causally be[coming] a felon".
| vharuck wrote:
| They erected a gallows. Not the kind of party I'd want to
| attend.
|
| https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/noose-hung-outside-capitol...
| caminocorner wrote:
| This is a great idea!
|
| Hypothetical: I do wonder how admissible this is as court
| evidence in a world where DeepFake videos is an open source tool.
| If it's not on the protester's facebook, couldn't a clever
| defense attorney just claim the video was altered by the
| archivist and "there's no way to prove that is the face of the
| defendant"? I bet it would need to be coupled with other
| evidence, testimony, etc?
| redisman wrote:
| I mean you can corroborate it with a plane ticket most likely
| MattGaiser wrote:
| If it got to a trial, they would just get the original from
| Facebook with a court order.
| caymanjim wrote:
| Cell phone tracking, eyewitnesses, confessions. Most of these
| people aren't going to be arrested or prosecuted, and the more
| egregious ones are going to brag about it.
| rapind wrote:
| I don't think deep fake is deep enough to survive real
| scrutiny, especially with tools to detect fakes. I'm not even
| sure still image fakes are good enough to be undetectable given
| some time and resources.
|
| Deep fake videos are more about influencing opinion, especially
| when people can't be bothered to check sources, which is a
| legitimate concern.
|
| I expect that any video submitted as court evidence will
| undergo the necessary scrutiny.
| handedness wrote:
| > I expect that any video submitted as court evidence will
| undergo the necessary scrutiny.
|
| Evidence often only undergoes the level of scrutiny for which
| the accused are willing and able to pay. Contesting a
| sophisticated deep fake would require leading expert witness
| research and testimony, which can cost thousands of dollars
| per hour and take weeks or months.
|
| For the proverbial Trial of the Century, fake detection may
| well be robust enough for a long time to come. For many
| others, though, it's likely another shift in the balance of
| power further in favor of the well-funded, whether said
| funding comes by way of existing wealth or an ability to
| print currency.
| chowells wrote:
| No physical evidence is ever provided without some sort of
| testimony as to its provenance. The legal system was already
| equipped for this, in theory. The bigger problem recently has
| been that when someone is willing to lie about their faked
| evidence, it's harder to detect and impeach the testimony
| introducing that evidence.
|
| So it's a problem, but not a structural one. The existing
| structures are already designed to handle forged evidence. The
| issue is that it's more expensive and technically difficult for
| parties to audit evidence in search of that forgery.
| Mizza wrote:
| A great idea! While we're at it, let's have a game show where
| condemned prisoners battle celebrity bounty hunters on live
| television!
|
| So weird to see hackers suddenly embracing the surveillance
| state, national security directives, security theater and a
| harsh judiciary for political protest just because it's a bunch
| of lower class brainwashed boomers instead of their favorite
| whiny private university activists.
| another_sock wrote:
| It's not really weird, it's expected. What would be weird is
| if the HN crowd was able to think for themselves when the
| media, all governments, and tech companies are pushing the
| same narrative. Employees of tech companies aren't any
| different than employees of non-tech companies, their main
| trait is following orders.
| pc86 wrote:
| You can both detest the surveillance state _and_ be happy
| when terrorists are able to be brought to justice.
| Mizza wrote:
| Calling everything you don't like "terrorism" is exactly
| the kind of hyperbolic rhetoric that ends up giving the
| surveillance state more power to spy on you and every one
| you love.
|
| Am I just old now? Or did people just not learn any lessons
| from the post 9/11 years?
| neartheplain wrote:
| Previous discussion:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25667763
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(page generated 2021-01-08 23:01 UTC)