[HN Gopher] World's busiest international and domestic air routes
___________________________________________________________________
World's busiest international and domestic air routes
Author : infodocket
Score : 99 points
Date : 2021-01-08 13:04 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.oag.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.oag.com)
| snake_plissken wrote:
| This is really cool. From where are they sourcing this data?
|
| And on the Jan 2021 top US domestic routes, what's up with those
| Atlanta to Ft Lauderdale/Miami/Tampa/Orlando routes? We're only
| partly through the month so that maybe that's why they are listed
| but still, I was surprised.
| splonk wrote:
| ATL is the busiest passenger airport in the world, so I think
| that just reflects that a large proportion of traffic to and
| from Florida will route through there, plus just the usual
| seasonal traffic.
| iknowstuff wrote:
| Florida's not under lockdown.
| PMan74 wrote:
| OAG aggregate timetable data from airlines and distribute that
| aggregated feed.
|
| You'll note their data is "seats" not "passengers" i.e. if an
| A380 flies from London to Dubai they count that as 525 seats as
| opposed to however many people took the flight.
| FabHK wrote:
| Good point. Might, then, also reflect pressure from
| governments to keep flying, no matter the pax load factor.
| wasdfff wrote:
| It's people going there to get drunk on sand and avoid the cold
| ransom1538 wrote:
| Tax law. NY citizens are avoiding taxes and often transfer
| through ATL. They can live in FL for more than ~180 days and
| they don't pay state income tax. We call them "snow birds".
|
| "you maintain a permanent place of abode in New York State for
| substantially all of the taxable year and spend 184 days or
| more in New York State during the taxable year, whether or not
| you are domiciled in New York State for any portion of the
| taxable year. Note: Any part of a day is a day for this
| purpose."
|
| https://www.tax.ny.gov/pit/file/pit_definitions.htm
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Why would this be specifically reflected in Jan travel, as
| opposed to other reasons, e.g. traveling to enjoy warmer
| weather? Or a non lockdown state in the current situation?
| bobthepanda wrote:
| Snowbirds are known to spend the winter there.
|
| Summer is not a great time to be in Florida during
| hurricane season with fairly heavy rains.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Why would they wait until January? Cold weather starts in
| Nov at the latest.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| Holiday travel?
|
| This page doesn't have previous months on it. Or I
| haven't found it with ten seconds of looking.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Oh I see, they might come back to NY for holidays.
| newsclues wrote:
| Holidays?
| cltby wrote:
| To the extent you're suggesting you can easily live outside
| of NY but collect tax-free NY income, it's not really true.
| Any NY source income remains taxable by the state. In
| practice, this covers remote work too, despite the safe
| harbor provisions of TSB-M-06(5)I.
|
| [1] https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/memos/income/m06_5i.pdf
| ransom1538 wrote:
| The link you gave is about Telecommuters working out of NY
| but live in FL. This is a pretty small group (no source).
| It's the retirees and pensioners that get the great deal..
| r3pl4y wrote:
| They listed Shanghai - Taipei as "international route", let's
| hope that site stays up.
| [deleted]
| blakesterz wrote:
| Pretty interesting lists. 9 of 10 busiest domestic routes are in
| Asia. The other is Middle East. USA's top 3 are ATL to different
| places in Florida. ATL has 4 of the top 10, Seattle has 3, Dallas
| 2.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| The routes seem to be in countries that are not locking down as
| strictly.
|
| Also the Asian routes tend to be routes that are not
| competitive by HSR for various reasons (Vietnam and Indonesia
| don't have any, Saudi Arabia's route is not connected via HSR);
| Bali and Jeju are separated from the other end of their trips
| by at least one large body of water with no land connection;
| Beijing, Shanghai, and the PRD are all way too far from each
| other on HSR to be competitive, as is Tokyo-Sapporo. That
| leaves Tokyo-Osaka, which is on the list primarily because even
| with HSR winning the mode share in that market the two metro
| areas are very large. (34m and 12m respectively, 21m if you
| count all of Kobe-Osaka-Kyoto)
| asiando wrote:
| Most of those routes, with the exception of Jakarta-Bali, are
| in countries that have managed the virus well enough to avoid
| recurring/permanent lockdowns like in the US and Europe.
|
| When Asian countries had to lock down, they were super
| strict. See Da Nang (Vietnam) in August.
| bluntfang wrote:
| ATL is a delta hub, my guess is lots of snowbirds or other
| people traveling to/from florida for vacations.
| ekabod wrote:
| (Paris Orly => Pointe-a-Pitre) is listed as an international
| route surprisingly.
| benoitg wrote:
| The ISO country codes are different though (FR and GP), the
| heuristics may be based on that ?
| DigiDigiorno wrote:
| I am more surprised that MCO/SJU route (Orlando to San Juan,
| Puerto Rico) is listed as international too.
|
| I am quite certain that is a domestic route, at least for
| immigration purposes. Perhaps the airline industry
| differentiates territories as international for some reason.
| burlesona wrote:
| Yes that's a domestic route, seems like a mistake in the
| reporting.
| f6v wrote:
| Moscow - Simferopol isn't international either.
| TurkishPoptart wrote:
| The UN doesn't recognize the annexation of Crimea, so that's
| probably why.
| Iwan-Zotow wrote:
| do they recognize Taiwan?
|
| I doubt that...
| [deleted]
| FabHK wrote:
| I doubt that the OAG goes by UN definitions or membership
| (otherwise the flight from China to Taiwan would be
| considered domestic?)
| [deleted]
| overscore wrote:
| I wonder if that's because Guadeloupe isn't part of the
| Schengen Zone and so has passport control for arrivals from
| elsewhere in France.
| [deleted]
| thatfrenchguy wrote:
| None of the overseas territories are part of Schengen. They
| rerouted there because another airline (French Bee / Air
| Caraibes) doing CDG -> PPT has a base there.
|
| They're doing it trough Vancouver now that they know the
| Canadian government won't cancel their flights at the last
| minute ;-)
| fakedang wrote:
| Isn't French Guiana France proper? I always see it marked
| alongside the Schengen zones.
| Symbiote wrote:
| Yes, French Guiana is as much part of France as Hawaii is
| part of the USA. They use the Euro, and any EU citizen
| can move there for work, study or just to live (if they
| have the money to support themselves).
|
| However, it's not part of Schengen. The usual benefit --
| no queues at the borders -- is pretty limited, when it
| doesn't border any other EU state, and anyone from the EU
| must arrive by air or sea anyway.
|
| Since it is part of the EU, crossing the border is less-
| strict for an EU citizen: an identity card is acceptable,
| and there's less ability for people to be detained by
| border guards.
| el-salvador wrote:
| I thought it was a local flight too.
|
| Last year when countries started closing their borders, Air
| Tahiti had to reroute their Papeete-Los Angeles-Paris flight
| via Pointe-a-Pitre.
|
| It was a French Polynesia to French Caribbean to France flight.
| FabHK wrote:
| Yeah, among the busiest "international" routes are:
|
| * France - France (Overseas region and department),
|
| * Russia - Russia (annexed region),
|
| * USA - USA (commonwealth),
|
| * China (People's Republic of) - China (Republic of)
|
| Goes to show that the notion of "nation" has fuzzy borders.
| yufeng66 wrote:
| Also, Cario-Jeddah and Cario-Riyadh are formerly Ottoman
| Empire. Seoul-Tokyo is briefly part of Japanese Empire. The
| only "true" international routes left are Dubai-London and
| New York-Santiago
| fakedang wrote:
| How can you actually equate Cairo - Jeddah and Cairo -
| Riyadh as remnants of the Ottoman Empire? This has got to
| be the most ridiculous assertion I've read on this site.
|
| Those routes are busy simply because there are a number of
| Egyptian expats working in KSA who travel back home for
| vacations and/or family events and stuff. Apart from that,
| Cairo and Riyadh are as international as you can get apart
| from the language - they speak different dialects of
| Arabic, they have different views on religion, they have
| extremely different cultures, and they call each other's
| food shit.
|
| Both parts (Arabia and Egypt) were ruled by their
| respective dynasties for almost a half millennia, far
| longer than Ottoman rule.
|
| I don't know why there's a lot of traffic between Seoul and
| Tokyo, but it's certainly not because the former was
| briefly ruled from the latter. Comparing these examples to
| the Russian and French examples is laughable.
| disown wrote:
| > Goes to show that the notion of "nation" has fuzzy borders.
|
| Or that these aren't nations but empires pretending to be
| nations.
| Iwan-Zotow wrote:
| that was good one!
| ransom1538 wrote:
| Florida.
| leoedin wrote:
| How does this compare with this time last year?
| Marazan wrote:
| That's the question I want answered very much.
|
| CJU-GMP would still be top but it would be interesting to see a
| non Covid affected world.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| I'm curious how these compare to "ordinary" times. Like I would
| be interested in the delta.
| ekabod wrote:
| (Moscow - Simferopol), 4000 passengers/day.
|
| Why is there so many people taking this route in the middle of
| winter?
| eterm wrote:
| I think you've answered your question; to escape the Moscow
| winter to somewhere it's above freezing?
| [deleted]
| usrnm wrote:
| Because Crimea is relatively warm, it's an interesting place
| worth visiting and, last but not least, there aren't that many
| options for Russians to go spend winter holidays in. The next
| work day is Monday
| wincy wrote:
| Ahh, a balmy 47oF in Simferopol. I guess it's all relative.
| ricardobayes wrote:
| Yeah, lot's of places in Russia are -27F or -33C during the
| day. Brrrr.
| willyg123 wrote:
| When I lived in NYC I remember the first day it reached 50
| degrees, sometime in late March or April, you would see
| people walking around in tee shirts.
|
| Now that I live in Miami, 50 degrees is cause to break out
| the warmest clothes you own. Definitely all relative.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _When I lived in NYC I remember the first day it reached
| 50 degrees, sometime in late March or April, you would
| see people walking around in tee shirts._
|
| Ditto for Chicago. First 50deg day of the year, and Oak
| Street Beach fills up.
| DamnYuppie wrote:
| I can second this. I grew up in the Arizona desert. If it
| was below 55 degrees people would be wearing jackets. I
| then lived in NYC for a few years, I too recall the first
| day it broke 40 degrees. I went out in shorts and a
| t-shirt, it felt great!
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Why are Denver-Phoenix and Seattle-Phoenix so busy?
| nickhalfasleep wrote:
| Ski traffic to Denver.
| gffrd wrote:
| The route involving Seattle is actually Phoenix TO Seattle,
| which is somewhat surprising, and means 3/10 of the list puts
| people in/through Seattle.
|
| That's a surprisingly large percentage / number.
|
| Intuitively, It feels like too many people to either be: - On
| their way somewhere else (home to BC, hopping the Pacific, from
| AK to lower 48) - Coming for snow (either ending in WA, or
| legging to BC,ID,WY,MT) - Coming home from holiday - Subjecting
| themselves to January in Seattle [1]
|
| ... but maybe in aggregate the above add up to our 8-10
| position.
|
| Now that I've written the above out, and others have pointed
| out, I'm recognizing a pattern with Atlanta: we don't see
| bigger cities as starting points, just their aggregation point
| (Atlanta). Maybe reasonable to assume the same for Seattle.
|
| -- [1] Not a dig, I live here.
| kyleblarson wrote:
| Probably snowbirds escaping down to AZ for golf weather and
| government that's not trying to destroy small business and
| restaurants.
| teachrdan wrote:
| People from relatively wealthy areas flying to Phoenix for the
| warm weather?
| rsync wrote:
| In my experience those are first legs on (cheaper) stopover
| flights.
|
| If you fly between Denver and (anywhere on the coast) there is
| always some cheap option that stops over in Phoenix.
|
| Perhaps it is the same with Seattle going east ...
| liminal wrote:
| This really needs time period comparisons. Year over year, month
| over month...
| jansan wrote:
| Very interesting, but i think it would be 1000 times better with
| an additional map.
| bagacrap wrote:
| nit: Orlando to San Juan (Puerto Rico) is not international.
| bearjaws wrote:
| Strange to me that ATL to Orlando is busy, wonder if out of state
| tourism has recovered slightly?
| powvans wrote:
| Disney World is open and there are no COVID-19 restrictions in
| Florida as far as I know.
| matz1 wrote:
| Yup went to florida recenty, mainly because they have less
| restriction, glad there is still state that has not gone
| insane.
| dkdk8283 wrote:
| The gov passed a bill forbidding restrictions or closures
| by local ordinances.
| wincy wrote:
| Florida has guidelines but nothing mandatory, I believe? But
| yeah I walked into a Papa John's pizza and half the employees
| were wearing no masks and the other half were wearing "chin
| diapers" when I visited last month.
|
| I live in Kansas and mask compliance here is actually really
| high in all the places I go shopping, which someone on the
| coasts might not expect. People just don't want to cause
| trouble, even if they disagree with the restrictions. My 82
| year old grandmother has said as much, she has made a
| decision that the mental health toll isn't worth it, and
| she'll risk exposure to go grocery shopping, but doesn't want
| to cause trouble so wears her mask.
| kylegill wrote:
| This sounds very Kansas! I grew up there and now live in
| Utah.
|
| Every time I've gone back I'm reminded just how much the
| midwest is full of people who are good, friendly, and look
| out for each other.
| wil421 wrote:
| I was in the Panhandle last week at my family's place. Can
| confirm about the chin straps and no mask wearers.
|
| There's a big restaurant nearby that had 200+ people in it
| and no table or space restrictions. It was a full house.
|
| In Georgia we are still under restrictions and restaurants
| are at half capacity.
| wincy wrote:
| In Orlando proper the adherence seemed much better. Maybe
| because they're a tourist town and don't want to get in
| the news. To the point that a buffet had us use
| disposable gloves for each trip to get food. Going off
| the beaten path was where the mask adherence seemed very
| low.
| ru552 wrote:
| Disney World is still highly restricted. Masks are required
| at all times. Park capacity is handicapped. Hotel services
| are limited. Ride capacity is restricted. Etc.
| wincy wrote:
| That said, when I went with my daughter almost every person
| I spoke to said they were travelling from California, were
| season ticket holders and were coming to Disney World
| because Disneyland is closed down. Unintended consequence
| for sure. We already had COVID in March so felt the risks
| were acceptable for us, and as you've said Disney was
| extremely serious about mask requirements, and so many of
| the things little kids would be interested in were closed
| down. They really don't want a super spreader event at "The
| Happiest Place on Earth".
|
| And to preempt people who think I'm acting irresponsibly,
| you're right. It was a spur of the moment trip and sort of
| a mental health crisis, I felt trapped and crazy in my home
| in the middle of winter, if I could go back in time I don't
| think I'd go. The airplane was completely full and I'm
| guessing drink sales are way up on planes because that's
| the only reason you're allowed to take off your mask. Also
| prices were insanely cheap for flights, $250 for round trip
| tickets for me and my five year old daughter.
| dubcanada wrote:
| Fairly off-topic and mostly curious, did it help?
| wincy wrote:
| Disneyworld didn't really help. It had some cool stuff
| but it's mostly waiting in line and being uncomfortable
| wearing a mask constantly.
|
| The ocean and sun did. We drove out to the coast and
| spent a few days at the beach. I saw the ocean for the
| first time in 15 years, the second time in my life I've
| been there. The sound of the waves against the shore
| filled with me a sense of awe and overwhelming calm that
| I didn't know was possible. My daughter couldn't stop
| yelling "this is amazing!", it was her first time. We
| went to the beach at midnight and she wished on a
| shooting star. We both got a nice tan. If I could do it
| again I'd have just spent the whole week on the beach.
| howlgarnish wrote:
| For comparison, here's the data for 2018:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_passenger_air_...
| boringg wrote:
| 1. This is pretty fascinating 2. Can we just add one more mapping
| layer on top of this for easier info digestion? Seems like a
| pretty light lift for a big processing human advantage.
| break_the_bank wrote:
| Not surprised by the London - Dubai route being so popular. Ever
| since the month long lockdown got announced, a lot of tourists
| from the UK have been pouring into Dubai.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2021-01-08 23:01 UTC)