[HN Gopher] Show HN: I built the antithesis of Zoom. Add GIFs, s...
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       Show HN: I built the antithesis of Zoom. Add GIFs, stickers, BGs.
       Talk like IRL
        
       Author : remotelyyours
       Score  : 206 points
       Date   : 2021-01-06 12:43 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (reslash.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (reslash.co)
        
       | dorianmariefr wrote:
       | I love how the co-founder is doing tours in the online demo
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | Thanks!
        
       | TotempaaltJ wrote:
       | Seems like this could work super well for personal use,
       | especially if there was a mobile/tablet app with pinch-to-zoom.
       | 
       | Could throw a party on this with my friends.
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | We've actually a lot of interest for virtual events, offices
         | and classrooms :)
        
       | johnnyg wrote:
       | I joined and couldn't see my own face or bubble. I clicked around
       | trying to figure that part out but didn't get it.
       | 
       | I saw other people could easily publish content to the board and
       | I think that part is a step forward. I could have clicked
       | chess/gif and posted something but exited there.
       | 
       | When I join, I'd like a clear "you are here" with my own face
       | looking back at me.
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | Feedback taken! We'll improve upon this :)
        
       | mwcampbell wrote:
       | This reminds me of an old article by Jakob Nielsen, "Better than
       | Reality" [1], about how the web shouldn't try to emulate reality.
       | Of course, technology has advanced a lot since 1998. But I wonder
       | if his core point is still right. For one thing, at its best, the
       | web is still better than reality in that it can be much more
       | accessible to people with disabilities. Products like this one
       | still run the risk of negating that advantage.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/better-than-reality-a-
       | funda...
        
         | ravi-delia wrote:
         | I wonder if there's a good way of getting the best of both
         | worlds. The 'killer app' here would seem to be that you can
         | migrate between conversations _and_ be aware of other people 's
         | conversations at the same time, taking advantage of the efforts
         | of evolution to the fullest. Is there a better way that's more
         | inclusive?
        
       | CivBase wrote:
       | So it's basically Discord channels, but I change channels by
       | moving around an avatar? That's neat, but I'm not sure it's
       | really "the antithesis of Zoom". I don't even think Zoom is the
       | right product to compare against. Why should I use this over
       | Discord?
        
       | rzodkiew wrote:
       | I feel like I'm out of touch with current western culture, I
       | honestly feel like I'm becoming an old fart at the age of 30.
       | 
       | Everything is becoming increasingly infantile. Everything has to
       | be fun and cool. I'm wondering where is this trend coming from.
       | Is this some sort of a social response to how terrible and bleak
       | reality seems to be? Or maybe it's because we actually treat
       | majority of people like little children. If one looks how the
       | current enterprises work, the person within them have very
       | limited decision making power and access to information. In a way
       | that reminds me of a quote from interview with Erich Fromm[1]:
       | "It is true that one has to think first and then to act -but it's
       | also true that if one has no possibility of acting, one's
       | thinking kind of becomes empty and stupid.".
       | 
       | Any other ideas? Or maybe it's actually not happening at all, and
       | it's only me who's not getting it.
       | 
       | [1]:
       | https://hrc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p15878coll...
       | 
       | PS: OP, I don't mean that as criticism of your product, I think
       | it correctly identifies and addresses the need. It's the why is
       | it even a need part I'm curious about.
        
         | dangus wrote:
         | Maybe you're right about some things becoming infantile, but a
         | lot of the examples shown on this product page aren't just
         | about messing around with GIFs. You can build visual virtual
         | spaces, like a virtual conference space or auditorium. The idea
         | of being able to virtually walk around a virtual physical space
         | and speak to people in an analogy to real life (by getting
         | "closer" to them) seems like it's an idea with at least some
         | potential, and certainly a better idea than doing the real
         | thing right now.
         | 
         | Also, you may be surprised to find out that you _are_ allowed
         | to have silly fun as an adult.
         | 
         | In my opinion, the "infantilization" of our workplaces is a
         | huge positive, it's really a side effect that's demonstrating
         | that employers are caring less about forcing us to wear fake
         | clothes, fake personalities, and fake formality during our day
         | to day work. Comedy is one of the best coping mechanisms to
         | deal with stress and in that way it helps to be able to slap a
         | GIF over a situation without feeling like the boss man is going
         | to tell me to tone it down.
         | 
         | And sure, maybe there's no need for this product, but what I
         | can say is that if you build another Zoom/Meet/WebEx you aren't
         | really making anything new or interesting.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | Having an office clown is a great tension breaker.
           | 
           | Having an office full of clowns is a great way to get nothing
           | done.
        
             | dangus wrote:
             | If you take my argument to its most extreme conclusion,
             | sure, but I don't know why you're doing that.
        
         | Dirlewanger wrote:
         | A combination of things you mentioned and more:
         | 
         | * US has been suffering from its postwar boom period hangover
         | for over 40 years now. The job market isn't like it was due to
         | other emerging economies now having their boom periods. All
         | those dreams and aspirations that millennials were promised
         | (You can be whatever you want! Follow your passion and the work
         | will follow) were shattered and turned out to be contemptible
         | lies perpetuated by the secondary education system and the job
         | market as a whole. As a result, a whole generation is saddled
         | with debt, and are delaying milestones of life progression
         | (buying a house, having kids), indefinitely for many.
         | 
         | * The rise of the Internet and the millennials being at its
         | forefront has opened up massive new markets in the
         | entertainment section, most notably Disney. They own most
         | entertainment IPs, and know that millennials want to relive
         | their childhoods so they sell it back to them. Comic book
         | movies aren't just a fad like 80s actions movies were; they're
         | here to stay. And Disney wants adults to keep being obsessed
         | with what are essentially children's movies. All the social
         | media companies want you on their product all the time using it
         | and sharing everything you can (especially the juicy
         | controversial stuff that is polarizing the country, oh boy do
         | they love those articles).
        
         | corytheboyd wrote:
         | I'm 31 and think it's a cute/fun idea that I'll probably never
         | want myself, but nobody is forcing me to use it.
         | 
         | It's okay to let people build, deliver, and market things that
         | you don't need/want. People are allowed to like things that you
         | yourself do not like.
         | 
         | Reading the other replies to this comment I feel I am about to
         | be downvoted to hell lol
        
         | zwlee94 wrote:
         | "infantile".. you nailed it:
         | http://jollo.org/LNT/public/nursery.html
        
         | balia wrote:
         | Same. What I want out of every communication product is the
         | same: reliable, boring, and get out of my way. Humans innately
         | know how to communicate with each other. They know how to make
         | jokes, get info across, make hints, etc. we don't need
         | technology for the content of the communication
         | 
         | We need the transportation. Make it reliable, fast, and non
         | interfering. That's it. That's why Zoom rocks. It just works
        
         | TheCycoONE wrote:
         | I don't know about that - I'm a little older than you, and I
         | remember when the web was more like this. GeoCities and MySpace
         | allowed tons of customization, and everybody made their own
         | barf on a page to express themselves.
         | 
         | Then sometime in the mid 2000s everything online became
         | sanitized and corporate.
        
           | dec0dedab0de wrote:
           | Don't forget BBSes and even AOL/Prodigy, Everything used to
           | be more tongue in cheek, and required a bit of discovery to
           | figure out.
           | 
           | Personally, I think it's been downhill since someone decided
           | we needed ui/ux designers instead of sleep deprived
           | developers who assumed it was always the (l)users fault for
           | not being able to figure out how to use things. Sure, it has
           | made things easier to use for the masses, but I don't care
           | about the masses.
        
             | mwcampbell wrote:
             | > I don't care about the masses.
             | 
             | The "masses" are real people too, with feelings. We should
             | care about them. Also, they include our family and,
             | hopefully, friends.
        
               | dec0dedab0de wrote:
               | I think the internet was much better when most of my
               | family and friends didn't know how to use it.
               | 
               | But yeah, I know it's basically a necessity now, and I
               | understand that services need to cater to as many people
               | as possible. I just wanted to be a cranky old nerd for a
               | bit :-)
        
           | schnevets wrote:
           | I'd describe the mid 2000s aesthetic as "Professional", while
           | current trends are "Genuine". Snaps, stories, livestreams,
           | and other volatile social media became chic because it would
           | go away - you didn't have to rehearse your words, worry about
           | lighting, or ensure your images are perfectly aligned.
           | 
           | I really dug this Reslash concept after seeing that grainy
           | image of a classroom used as a background. It's something you
           | just slap on because you're about to teach, but it isn't a
           | painfully constructed "Knowledge Session" with a stock image-
           | riddled Powerpoint deck.
        
           | lhorie wrote:
           | The web has always been a mish-mash of crazy hippie stuff
           | alongside dry boring stuff. There was a lot of personalized
           | personal webpages sure, but also search engines used to look
           | dry and boring and emojis in chat were limited to what you
           | could do with ASCII art (compared to the insane amount of
           | animated sticker spammy-ness that a teen might use these
           | days).
           | 
           | With that said, I do agree with GP with regards to things
           | outside of the web: products have a lot more franchise
           | placements (e.g. disney-themed shampoos), and school for my
           | kids have a lot more of an artsy/hippie feel than I remember
           | my dry seats-facing-forward education some 30 years ago.
           | Gaming among adults is far more socially accepted than 30
           | years ago - you wouldn't even bat an eyelid at an old lady
           | playing candy crush in the bus these days. Etc.
           | 
           | I suspect an increase in middle class disposable income might
           | have something to do with this. Look, for example, at how
           | culture progressed over the decades in Japan. Nowadays, you
           | have grown adults who are into moe[0] stuff, along all sort
           | of "infantile" subcultures (by western standards).
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang)
        
           | rzodkiew wrote:
           | I think there's a line somewhere between expressiveness and
           | infantility. It's actually corporate that pushes the latter
           | through the way they add those ways of expression to their
           | products.
           | 
           | I'm not saying everything has to be boring and same
           | everywhere, I'd like to see the world that's actually quite
           | the opposite, that's diverse and where people are pushing the
           | boundaries of expression. Where I see infantilisation
           | happening is where things with very low information ratio
           | (and usually something evoking one of the basic emotions with
           | high valence and high arousal) are described as fun and cool.
           | 
           | I think OP's product is sitting somewhere on that border, but
           | their marketing angle is definitely pushing it towards the
           | infantility. Just look at the title of this very post, but I
           | guess it worked, in the end we've all clicked on the comments
           | and are here.. :)
        
         | rorykoehler wrote:
         | It's not particularly western. East Asian countries have been
         | doing it for decades.
        
         | inscionent wrote:
         | Has your job become gamified yet?
        
           | rzodkiew wrote:
           | Thankfully not yet. But as you are correctly pointing out
           | this is another trend I find personally worrisome.
           | 
           | Recently I've seen startup, where you were earning XP points
           | for quickly closing customer support tickets, and earning
           | badges...
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _Recently I 've seen startup, where you were earning XP
             | points for quickly closing customer support tickets, and
             | earning badges..._
             | 
             | A college buddy worked at a place like that. But it wasn't
             | a startup, it was a long-established company.
             | 
             | It was also 1996, and he learned that closing deals on
             | copies of Windows 95 was worth twice as many points as
             | other software, so he focused all his efforts on that so he
             | could do half the work of his "teammates" in his cubicle
             | farm.
        
         | postingpals wrote:
         | This is Capitalism. Everything has to be family friendly so it
         | can reach as wide an audience as possible. When you're waiting
         | for customer support, you have to hear a fun jingle so you
         | don't get upset. People have to be talked down to like children
         | so they know their place in the wealth hierarchy. It's an
         | ideology, not in the sense of political beliefs, but rather
         | false ideas that dominate society that we all subconsciously
         | hold to maintain the social system we built on contradictory
         | premises.
         | 
         | I don't think I've presented the full picture, but you asked
         | where this trend is coming from, and to me this is the only
         | common factor and starting point of investigation.
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | > This is Capitalism. Everything has to be family friendly so
           | it can reach as wide an audience as possible
           | 
           | Ah yes, those socialists and their totally not family
           | friendly media? Really?
           | 
           | > When you're waiting for customer support, you have to hear
           | a fun jingle so you don't get upset.
           | 
           | It's so you know you haven't been disconnected.
           | 
           | > People have to be talked down to like children so they know
           | their place in the wealth hierarchy.
           | 
           | Please don't talk down to people regardless of how wealthy
           | you are. You will always have the best luck by being warm but
           | polite, talking respectfully but honestly.
           | 
           | > It's an ideology, not in the sense of political beliefs,
           | but rather false ideas that ...
           | 
           | Capitalism appears to be pretty real, and it appears to be
           | pretty political. I would not say it "dominates" society
           | since plenty of people seem to be against it in name alone.
        
             | postingpals wrote:
             | From your website:
             | 
             | "Admit Nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-Accusations"
             | 
             | Why am I not surprised to see this kind of instinctive
             | reaction. I don't want to debate your points because that
             | is way out of scope for this thread and I don't want to be
             | chased out.
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | Be careful. That smells like a personal attack.
               | 
               | Moreover, if you can't debate what he wrote in HN, you
               | shouldn't explore his life outside of HN to try to build
               | a strawman.
        
         | Jommi wrote:
         | I think you're approaching it from the completely wrong way. We
         | are in the time of revolution for video calls and interactive
         | spaces. In times of revolution quick adoption is key.
         | Funny/viral things with no participation barrier are ways of
         | increasing adoption.
         | 
         | It will allow the tech/product to evolve and soon also fit your
         | usecase. Because most likely thats where the real money is.
         | 
         | Just check this out:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Palace_(computer_program)
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | Preach!!
        
         | Reedx wrote:
         | You might find The Coddling of the American Mind[1] an
         | interesting read. I think it explains a lot about the
         | infantilization of the culture.
         | 
         | 1. https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-
         | Gen...
        
         | nixpulvis wrote:
         | I feel that sentiment myself. The need for better online
         | communication is a forced reality during COVID. Having to
         | navigate such explicit communication setups like Zoom groups
         | and break-out rooms is a challenge.
         | 
         | But I don't know why the marketing needs to be so "fun". I
         | hated all the "fun" slack brought to my life... and slowed down
         | good communication dramatically.
        
         | beamatronic wrote:
         | Yes I think you're onto something. Fewer and fewer people are
         | required to make the world go. You have to keep them
         | busy/distracted.
        
         | ironmagma wrote:
         | Play is the natural state of life. It's a better question to
         | ask why everything else is so staid and un-fun.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25481758
        
           | rorykoehler wrote:
           | Because we have to work to survive in the current system. If
           | I didn't have to work and could take risks (I.e. have fu
           | money) I'd do roughly the same thing in a very different way.
        
             | ironmagma wrote:
             | What does that have to do with whether a video conferencing
             | app is experimental though? All that says is that whoever
             | made it has some leeway to take risks.
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | I am actually 32 haha I do understand where you're coming from.
         | However, our motivation around this was to have an emotional
         | response to space. The idea of personalizing your space where
         | you're spending time is an important one. We also want to be
         | treated like people online and not boxes. So the whole idea of
         | being on "mute" when you're listening to someone needs to be
         | challenged.
         | 
         | This is probably not an answer to what you've asked. I just
         | wanted to tell you about how motivations behind building this.
        
           | rzodkiew wrote:
           | Oh yeah, I think what you've built can be great enabler for
           | expression and creativity and product itself and definitely
           | has the old school web feel to it. I think what inspired me
           | to write above, was more of a marketing angle you are taking,
           | not necessarily product itself.
        
             | remotelyyours wrote:
             | You got the creativity and expression bit right. That's a
             | big motivator. For the positioning, I do understand your
             | point. We may need to explore this a bit more to really
             | convey what we're trying to do better.
        
           | 8bitsrule wrote:
           | An experiment well worth doing, and probably a preferable
           | option for people weary of listening politely to
           | 'authorities' or 'guests' or 'lecturers' one-at-a-time...
           | which can be extremely low-bandwidth.
           | 
           | Certainly at conventions with 'presentations' many people sit
           | near each other to discuss what's being said (or talk past
           | the parts not relevant to them) in real-time. Orchestras
           | still have conductors (strictly interpreting fixed works) but
           | I think most people would rather be in a band (for the
           | creative interactivity) and rather listen to a band.
        
         | dunce2020 wrote:
         | > Is this some sort of a social response to how terrible and
         | bleak reality seems to be?
         | 
         | Yep, a distraction to increasing alienation and atomization
         | under Kapital.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | A related development I find interesting is the increasing
         | denial of accountability. More and more, people focus on the
         | ways that things aren't their fault or focus on things that
         | they can't change. It's to a point where IMO people are
         | basically treating themselves and each other as children, with
         | the tired old mantras that children often use: it's not my
         | fault, they started it, everyone else is doing it too, etc. It
         | doesn't matter too much to me. I've always focused on the ways
         | I can improve myself and my life without worrying too much
         | about how things could have been better if XYZ. But I do think
         | the people who participate in this aspect of infantilization
         | culture may be holding themselves without even realizing it.
        
           | notabee wrote:
           | I think the other side of the coin is that we're moving away
           | from people hiding incompetence through bravado,
           | scapegoating, and what gets neglected when people engage in
           | the game of pretend called "we're all grown ups here". The
           | fact is that people are on a lot of different levels of
           | emotional maturity and function. Even the same individual at
           | difference points of their life and in different contexts.
           | Age only loosely correlates with real maturity, real
           | ownership of responsibility, etc. It's kind of silly when we
           | can plan for all sorts of failsafes and redundancy in
           | architecture and software but neglect to do so with humans,
           | who are always error prone.
           | 
           | Also, it is useful to talk about systemic problems that are
           | much larger than what any individual can fix just by being
           | extra diligent.
           | 
           | I see your point though, that something being nobody's fault
           | can be just as damaging as spending an egregious amount of
           | time trying to assign blame (the traditional way of things).
           | My opinion is that responsibility, and being able to take
           | some flak for when that ownership goes awry, should be
           | conditioned like exercise. Taking none is like never
           | exercising, and it's very unhealthy. Throwing 1000 pounds of
           | weight on someone suddenly because of a pathological need for
           | the group to have a scapegoat doesn't make that person
           | better, though. It just crushes them and it's a net loss for
           | the group. That weight and stress should be shared. We need
           | to cultivate the real maturity to take and give some blame
           | constructively, and recognize all extenuating factors, so
           | that people neither get infantilized and helpless nor simply
           | squashed because of a systemic problem that the group just
           | doesn't want to address.
        
             | rorykoehler wrote:
             | Accountability and blame are two vastly different concepts.
             | As an executive I'm accountable when my team messes up.
             | Blame doesn't even come into it.
        
           | patcon wrote:
           | Thanks for your comment! fwiw, pls note that your critique
           | would apply equally to any concern that society wishes to
           | "push up the stack". Collectivizing challenges (rather than
           | individualizing them) is what pretty much all societal
           | progress is built on...
           | 
           | But that process will always look like people saying "this
           | isn't my fault" and focussing on "something they can't change
           | [by themselves]".
           | 
           | Anyhow, not saying your intuition are wrong (there are
           | degrees I agree with), but just noting it has some fuzzy
           | edges that point toward some weird truisms
        
             | silicon2401 wrote:
             | We probably just have different viewpoints, and the "fuzzy
             | edges" may be areas we don't agree. I am very aware of what
             | my views are, whereas you imply I may be unaware. I find it
             | useful to not waste too much time worrying about challenges
             | and instead focus on solutions and opportunity. This has
             | allowed me to come from childhood poverty into an adulthood
             | that successfully provides me the life I want, without
             | hangups or emotional baggage. If other people find success
             | through different strategies, that's great. But as I said,
             | I can't help but think that many people are only holding
             | themselves back by focusing on things that are out of their
             | control
        
           | xienze wrote:
           | > A related development I find interesting is the increasing
           | denial of accountability. More and more, people focus on the
           | ways that things aren't their fault or focus on things that
           | they can't change.
           | 
           | This is 100% on what's being taught in schools and colleges
           | (critical race theory).
        
             | jetpks wrote:
             | Can you provide peer reviewed sources for your claim that
             | critical race theory leads to lack of accountability?
        
               | xienze wrote:
               | Yes, the whole premise is "all your failures in life are
               | because of racism and other privilege."
        
               | viewer5 wrote:
               | That wasn't peer-reviewed or even sourced
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | Unpopular opinion on HN, but asking for a peer-reviewed
               | source during a casual forum discussion is kind of a lazy
               | way to dismiss something. When you're chatting with your
               | buddies over cocktails and they say something you
               | disagree with, do you suddenly demand a peer-reviewed
               | source and offer to drive them to the library so they can
               | find the academic papers that back up their views?
        
               | ldrndll wrote:
               | Let's not let facts get in the way of some good old-
               | fashioned racism shall we?
        
               | TurkishPoptart wrote:
               | I don't know if there's peer-reviewed sources about that
               | claim in particular, but this is a topic that's being
               | addressed often in media. Here's a popular book on this
               | topic; I haven't read it yet, but I'd like to:
               | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1634312023
        
               | meowkit wrote:
               | CT/CRT promotes an external locus of control as the
               | source of societal problems. In other words, its not the
               | fault of the individual/human hardware its the fault of
               | the patterns that society has entrenched aka systemic
               | racism or the software of a culture.
               | 
               | Its a top down theory/solution to what critics would
               | argue is a bottom up problem. Individuals must be
               | responsible for what they say, how they regulate their
               | emotional state, and how their experiences and cognitive
               | distortions skew their thinking. CT/CRT, by my
               | understanding, argues against this. Thus it seems
               | reasonable to say it leads to a lack of accountability if
               | you define accountability as a responsibility for ones
               | actions and beliefs.
               | 
               | I've read a small bit on CT/CRT, intersectionality, and
               | the modern culture of safetyism. Primarily from Haidt who
               | has more peer reviewed sources on things than anyone
               | could ever want.
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-
               | Gen...
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/Righteous-Mind-Divided-Politics-
               | Relig...
               | 
               | I find CT/CRT to be compelling to a degree, but it brings
               | along with it too much baggage in my opinion. You're
               | likely not going to find or be given a specific source of
               | data that says CRT leads to lack of accountability
               | (however you would measure that), its an assumption made
               | by the previous poster. You don't need one either to have
               | a discussion, so don't fall back on the lack of academic
               | evidence as an argument in itself.
        
         | ericmcer wrote:
         | Seems like the logical endpoint of the shift away from tie and
         | button down formality to the more casual/fun (at least on the
         | surface) vibe tech businesses introduced. I don't really go for
         | all the unicorn/muffin/whatever type childish aspects, but
         | friendly UI's are a welcome change from the sort of austere
         | 'businessy' UIs.
         | 
         | This also doesn't just apply to work, many people my age (32)
         | are super into cartoons and Disneyland, but the concept of
         | going to Disneyland without a child in your 30s seems... weird
         | to me. It is probably good that people feel comfortable to be
         | sort of weird though versus the stoic version of adulthood in
         | the past.
        
         | cam0 wrote:
         | I'm slightly older than you, so we're both millenials, and I've
         | noticed a lot of my friends sort of struggling with the fact
         | that we're no longer the "young and cool" crowd. The Gen Y/Z
         | TikTok crowd are the cool ones now, and speaking anecdotally
         | the people I know in their late teens and early twenties are
         | quite a bit more sheltered and childish than my friends and I
         | were at that age. We were using fake IDs to get into bars and
         | shows, and my younger cousins are literally spending
         | Friday/Saturday nights inside on social media (pre-Covid).
        
           | DiggyJohnson wrote:
           | Respectfully, I think the younger generations are "up to" the
           | exact same stuff. I should write a post about college campus
           | ID culture. It's always fun to break out a pseudonym.
        
             | treve wrote:
             | My understanding is that going out, (binge-)drinking has
             | actually significantly gone down in the last decade.
             | 
             | I can't vouch for these specific stats, but I've come
             | across multiple articles over the years that support this.
             | Here's at least some data I found:
             | 
             | https://www.childtrends.org/indicators/binge-drinking
             | 
             | Anecdotally, tons of clubs have closed in since the 90's
             | with no replacement where I lived (Toronto and North
             | Netherlands). Everything at least in my circles suggests
             | that drugs, drinking, partying is all happening less now
             | compared to the previous generations.
             | 
             | Ymmv depending on where you are from though.
        
               | rorykoehler wrote:
               | I randomly landed and browsed through Courtney Loves
               | Twitter today and she posts lots of pictures of partying
               | in the early 90s with other celebs. It's the antithesis
               | of what is cool today. Just looks like a train wreck
               | really.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | Er, Courtney Love was widely perceived as a trainwreck in
               | the 90s, so her Twitter being full of now-seen-as-
               | trainwreck stuff from the 1990s probably isn't a good
               | measure of change from the 1990s to now.
        
               | rorykoehler wrote:
               | But her scene and the train wrecking was seen as "cool"
               | by kids. I don't think that is the case anymore. Kids
               | look up to Elon Musk and YouTubers want to do startups
               | and content instead.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > But her scene and the train wrecking was seen as "cool"
               | by kids
               | 
               | Not very broadly, even among "the kids" (who, then and
               | now, are far from monolithic.) She was more seen as a
               | trainwreck that was in cool circles, not as a cool
               | trainwreck.
               | 
               | > Kids look up to Elon Musk
               | 
               | Yeah, kids looked up to successful business and tech
               | figures in the 1990s, and there are trainwreck
               | entertainment industry celebs today, too.
               | 
               | It's not the case that Musk is idolized by a similar
               | segment of the youth as would have idolized Love in the
               | 1990s.
        
           | dangus wrote:
           | Regarding the sheltering: I dunno. The next generation
           | _probably isn't telling you the shit they're getting into_.
           | 
           | Besides that, I spent plenty of Friday evenings staying up
           | until 4 AM playing The Sims (the original game). It's not
           | like high school kids really have a choice on what they're
           | doing a lot of times - they don't have complete freedom of
           | movement.
        
           | grawprog wrote:
           | >I'm slightly older than you, so we're both millenials, and
           | I've noticed a lot of my friends sort of struggling with the
           | fact that we're no longer the "young and cool" crowd. The Gen
           | Y/Z TikTok crowd are the cool ones now
           | 
           | The funny thing about that, much like when we were that age,
           | those platforms and things the young folks think are cool
           | were made by people who are the age of millenials or older
           | for the most part.
           | 
           | I dunno, when I was younger a lot of the music and stuff I
           | thought was cool was being made by people who were around the
           | same age I am now.
           | 
           | Not too sure what my point is really, your comment just made
           | me think of this. People around that age start lamenting
           | their lack of cool, but are responsible for many of the
           | things people younger than them find cool...something like
           | that I suppose.
        
             | rzodkiew wrote:
             | > Now the sound of music comes in silver pills       >
             | Engineered to suit you, building cheaper thrills         >
             | The music of rebellion makes you wanna rage         > But
             | it's made by millionaires who are nearly twice your age
             | 
             | from The Sound Of Muzak by Porcupine Tree.
        
         | smoyer wrote:
         | I'm on the older end of those here on HN ... there's a
         | specifically for our kind: https://gog.show/
        
         | npsimons wrote:
         | > Or maybe it's because we actually treat majority of people
         | like little children.
         | 
         | At 42, I've felt this is the cause for quite some time. You see
         | it in things like the adult Disney woman[0]. Part of it is
         | playing it safe so as not to offend the conservatives with a
         | nipple, but market forces have been driving movies this
         | direction as well[1].
         | 
         | Gutting education to dumb down the populace hasn't helped.
         | 
         | [0] - https://youtu.be/vLIfkiF8NeQ
         | 
         | [1] - https://www.gq.com/story/the-day-the-movies-died-mark-
         | harris
        
         | highspeedbus wrote:
         | It absolutely have to do with culture. "Manliness" is out of
         | fashion (in the context of media communication). The current
         | decade is all about being ironic, sassy and at the same time
         | vacuous. Think of pop music at its peak.
         | 
         | At the core of the problem, We've probably lost a lot of good
         | UI designers in position of decision from last generation. This
         | reflects on what is considered the "correct" way to make
         | software UI nowadays. Note that blink unicorns are not
         | necessary for a interface to be childish. Oversized buttons,
         | lack of power features and the constant need to "reinvent" is a
         | frenzy that gets some folks mad too.
         | 
         | Particularly about the tool, I think this has some cool
         | features that gets wanned by the backgrounds choice on the
         | video pitch.
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | Or just because going to work is more fun when it's.. fun? I
         | spend 8 hours a day there, I want to show who I am and I prefer
         | my coworkers doing the same.
         | 
         | Especially the last 9 months. Normally one would talk with
         | coworkers in the office, over a coffee, before a meeting etc.
         | Remote meetings I find are strictly business.
        
           | rorykoehler wrote:
           | It's so dystopian. There is such a narrow window of what is
           | acceptable behaviour in the workplace. I get along with and
           | like my colleagues but my relationship with them will never
           | be as genuine as it can be once I don't work with them
           | anymore. There is no upside and tons of downside to being
           | yourself. It's just not worth it.
        
           | hunter2_ wrote:
           | In terms of how to spend time percolating between hard work:
           | 
           | In the office, I can find something to do at my desk alone or
           | I can chat up some coworkers over coffee and the like.
           | 
           | Remote, the options are endless and I can chat up my family
           | and friends. I can do chores like dishes or laundry so
           | they're not all waiting for me after work. I can go for a
           | walk without being that guy who takes too many walks. Truly
           | anything so long as the time allocation and availability to
           | plug back in are appropriate.
           | 
           | For me, this is why I prefer remote meetings be strictly
           | business, and changing that isn't particularly compelling. My
           | coworkers are cool, but prioritizing them over the rest of my
           | life makes no sense to me so long as the value I bring to the
           | company remains just as strong.
        
           | rzodkiew wrote:
           | I totally agree with you on the fun part, but I think what we
           | define as fun is pretty different. I also agree with you that
           | talking and knowing people you work with is important.
           | 
           | Where we disagree is the point that I don't think that gifs
           | are helping you to know who your coworkers are. And more
           | importantly I think it is not helping anyone to better
           | understand themselves, which is one of the values of having
           | conversations with people in the first place - that's kinda
           | what philosophy schools were for. Gifs seem to serve some
           | sort of emotional regulation function, but I've never
           | investigated more deeply into that.
           | 
           | Now, I'm not trying to make a point here that you should only
           | have serious conversations all the time, and definitely see
           | the humour value of well timed gif, but I've found out that
           | in general the trend is to shallow out the discussions and
           | keep them within very narrow window of discourse.
        
           | postingpals wrote:
           | Why do you have to make work fun, shouldn't you already be
           | enjoying it if you are doing what you want to do? Are you not
           | doing what you want to do? See, that's the kind of problem
           | that creates the infantilisation.
        
             | rorykoehler wrote:
             | It's not fun when you have to do it.
        
             | EForEndeavour wrote:
             | Is it reasonable to expect that everyone in every WFH-
             | friendly job is actually "doing what they want to do" all
             | the time? In my opinion, no way. Even for someone doing
             | their dream job, parts of their day-to-day are guaranteed
             | to be eaten up by objectively not-fun tasks.
             | 
             | Also, the fact that someone enjoys their job doesn't mean
             | the experience can't be improved.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | madeofpalk wrote:
         | Since when was "having fun", "enjoying things", and "being
         | creative" infantile?
        
           | rorykoehler wrote:
           | I think OP doesn't find it to be any of the adjectives you
           | describe.
        
         | netsharc wrote:
         | There's a term for the current 20-somethings who can't be seen
         | as responsible adults yet, I don't remember what it was, but
         | searching for it got me this long article, from 10 years ago!
         | https://www.salon.com/2010/12/23/not_quite_adults_interview/
         | 
         | Maybe it's the still-living-at-your-parents-at-25 economy...
         | Maybe it's also because the 20, 30-somethings have been raised
         | by more and more helicopter parents and schools giving out
         | participation medals, i.e. too coddled.
        
           | gjvc wrote:
           | I've heard the term "peter-pan generation" be applied to this
           | characteristic.
        
         | emteycz wrote:
         | I am 23, have same feelings. It's not the age.
        
           | DiggyJohnson wrote:
           | Same age as well. And that's after strongly correcting for
           | the stereotypical "they don't make music like they used to"
           | bias that one might accuse me of.
           | 
           | Professionalism is seen as patronizing - which is a vibe I
           | can mostly get behind, but massively hinders direct,
           | important communication or collaboration. I also see a lot of
           | dishonest but well-intentioned platitudes being thrown around
           | that hides actual feedback.
           | 
           | But I'm ranting! Literally sounding like an old person...
           | should I feel guilty about age-ism??? That's my young person
           | perspective.
           | 
           | It's good to not feel totally alone in these things. The kids
           | behind us are wild, in my opinion.
        
             | rorykoehler wrote:
             | > The kids behind us are wild, in my opinion.
             | 
             | What do you mean by this? The next generation which will
             | follow yours?
        
         | neetfreek wrote:
         | I don't have any particularly interesting ideas about this, but
         | here's a relevant and fun read; an interview with Simon Pegg:
         | 
         | https://kingalfredpress.com/2017/09/20/the-infantalism-of-cu...
        
           | danudey wrote:
           | This article should be taken with a cosmic-scale grain of
           | salt. Specifically, it's worth noting that the article
           | discussions how complaints about "microaggressions"
           | (typically from visible minorities) are a form of
           | "oppression" and refers to "pathetic little snowflakes".
           | 
           | This comes across as some kind of conservative boomer
           | complaining about "kids these days", with their avocado
           | toast, who aren't willing to work as hard as their
           | grandfathers were in a world that's vastly different from the
           | one they grew up in.
           | 
           | The crux of the article with regards to Simon Pegg seems to
           | be that movies have moved to "spectacle", but when did that
           | happen? And who is going to see those movies? And why?
           | 
           | The world is going to shit; the 1% own most of the world,
           | climate change is destroying our planet, and politicians are
           | more concerned with their own success than the lives of their
           | constituents. Is it any wonder that people these days need
           | more escapism than their grandparents in the "golden age of
           | America", where employees would work hard their whole lives
           | and companies would take care of their employees, where you
           | could work a typical job and still be able to afford a house
           | and a comfortable lifestyle, and where you didn't have to
           | feel bad about hurting someone's feelings by being overtly
           | racist all the time, because you never ran into black people
           | because they weren't allowed to use the same water fountains
           | or bathrooms as you.
           | 
           | This article, in short, is garbage, and should be treated as
           | such.
        
         | zeroonetwothree wrote:
         | I'm older than you and I think it's fun. I also question that
         | this is a new thing. Look at the web in the 90s for example.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | There was New Hive. That's one of our inspirations. I am not
           | sure how many people have used that..
        
         | bonestamp2 wrote:
         | I wouldn't use it for work, and for that reason I like the idea
         | of something being the opposite of work... where it doesn't
         | have to be "professional" looking.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | You can make it "look" professional if you want.
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | A lot of these products are failing to innovate in meaningful
         | directions. Instead, they add silly features to justify your
         | continued use of them and their development team salaries.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | I would disagree. How is solving for better communication not
           | meaningful?
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | Define "better" in this context.
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | not the same person, but I think "better" in this context
               | means "something that more people would prefer over the
               | alternative due to having self-reported higher levels of
               | enjoyment and lower levels of stress, which makes you
               | want to use the tool more".
        
         | victorevector wrote:
         | Infantile is a compliment. It suggests creativity and pushing
         | the boundaries. Normally old curmudgeons think young things are
         | empty and stupid because they don't understand.
        
           | rorykoehler wrote:
           | Infantile means you don't have a developed prefrontal cortex
           | and is definitely not a positive description. Creative and
           | playful are not the same concept.
        
         | M277 wrote:
         | Ten years younger here and I feel the exact same.
         | 
         | It doesn't even stop with everything being "fun and cool" --
         | take a look at how dumb social media interaction really is. An
         | infinite stream of stuff that the user just presses "like" or
         | "love" or whatever at, and immediately scrolls / swaps to the
         | next diversion.
        
       | ianceicys wrote:
       | Very cool to see this. Just tried it out. It's a great
       | visualization.
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | Thanks!
        
       | jtbayly wrote:
       | That was cool, except I could never hear anybody talking. :(
       | 
       | I could hear the videos, though.
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | Oh, weird. Let me DM you and get that fixed for you.
        
       | dkersten wrote:
       | Its cool, I especially like that presentation example. However,
       | animated GIFs and stickers would drive me insane. I already can't
       | stand animated stuff in slack as it is, so distracting.
        
         | scythmic_waves wrote:
         | I also find that stuff distracting in slack, but I think that's
         | because I'm trying to stay on top of "work stuff". I don't
         | think it'd be so distracting if I was just hanging with friends
         | or something.
        
           | dkersten wrote:
           | I get that, but it still distracts from the actual
           | conversations or people. I don't need stuff constantly
           | moving. I guess the difference is that if its an in-person
           | situation, then stuff moving around me is normal, but on
           | screen it localizes everything to a small area: the screen. I
           | also find animated stuff annoying in Discord channels and
           | such, something I don't use for work, only for fun.
           | 
           | I dunno. I haven't tried it. For me, when I'm in a social
           | situation (virtual or in person), I'm there for the people
           | and want to focus on them, not some animated emoji. I can do
           | those on my own.
        
           | tpxl wrote:
           | FWIW you can disable animated emojis
        
       | rorykoehler wrote:
       | Consider automatically bootstrapping user profiles for the live
       | demo. Putting in E-Mail to see what it is all about is a straight
       | up no for me. Too much friction.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | remotelyyours wrote:
       | I built a video calling app which is the antithesis of Zoom. It's
       | called Reslash.
       | 
       | You can play with everything - backgrounds, gifs, stickers. You
       | can recreate a bar lounge, classroom, office, 80s party and more.
       | 
       | It also has spatial audio - just move closer to talk to people,
       | like you do IRL.
       | 
       | Demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zwXL7ZJra4
       | 
       | You can sign up here: https://reslash.co
       | 
       | I would love to get your feedback on it :)
        
         | sli wrote:
         | That video answers every question I had about why someone might
         | choose Reslash over Discord, thanks. Reslash looks fun.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | Thanks!
        
         | FalconSensei wrote:
         | Regarding pricing: I would see myself using that to play D&D
         | once a week with my friends. So, less than 10 people, but 1
         | 4-hour session a week.
         | 
         | Unfortunately, free tier is not enough, but $99 for that is a
         | bit too much.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | Hey! We have gotten a lot of feedback on pricing. We need to
           | fix it. Please go ahead and start using it! We'll have an in-
           | between pricing soon :)
        
             | FalconSensei wrote:
             | thanks for the reply! I'll give it a try with my friends :)
        
         | alpaca128 wrote:
         | Two points regarding the pricing table: Firstly it mixes
         | different spellings("up to" and "upto"). And then there are the
         | bullet points with strikethrough text that I just can't
         | understand. Why do both variants have "unlimited spaces"
         | crossed out? Why is "no unlimited guests allowed" crossed out,
         | which in my head implies that unlimited guests are allowed.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | Good observation. Pricing needs to be calibrated and
           | communicated properly. On it!!
        
         | juliend2 wrote:
         | Feedback:
         | 
         | I just had a quick tour with you guys. Amazing tool.
         | 
         | But at first I signed in as a guest, but now I want to sign up
         | with the same email address but it says "Error occured: The
         | email address is already in use by another account.".
         | 
         | And I see no "Forgot password" link.
         | 
         | EDIT: user email is now in my bio.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | fixing it!
        
             | remotelyyours wrote:
             | Hey, this is fixed. Can you try signing up again please?
             | Let me know if it still doesn't work.
        
         | djlewald wrote:
         | I'm surprised you didn't launch on producthunt. Definitely
         | think that crowd would get a kick out of it
         | 
         | Edit: I now see their producthunt page. It didn't pop up while
         | searching /shrug
        
           | FemmeAndroid wrote:
           | They were the #1 product of the day on Product Hunt on
           | December 23rd. They even have a Product Hunt '#1 product of
           | the day' badge featured prominently on their landing page.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | We actually were #1 on Product Hunt. We launched on it couple
           | of weeks ago :)
        
         | dec0dedab0de wrote:
         | I like the idea of spatial audio, I think that is the main
         | thing missing from virtual happy hours and whatnot.
         | 
         | I cant try it out right now. Does it have a limit to how many
         | people can occupy a space? can you control how far your voice
         | projects?
         | 
         | I am thinking of something like a work christmas party where
         | everyone breaks into groups and then walks away and tries
         | another group for a bit and talks to different people. Then
         | someone gets everyones attention and talks loudly or into a
         | microphone for a bit, then it goes back to normal.
         | 
         | In any case, good luck, it sounds great, I cant wait to try it.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | You can have up to 100 people in a room. You have unlimited
           | rooms. We're also building a broadcast feature so that you
           | can talk/announce across rooms.
           | 
           | We've not given flexibility on the spatial audio radius yet.
           | It could be interesting!
        
         | ironmagma wrote:
         | Love it. It would be especially cool to be able to create
         | filters, e.g. chroma keying on your video to integrate it into
         | the space. Or just to make the colors go wonky and have fun
         | with the image.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | Wow. Cool idea. We definitely need to look into this!
        
         | avrionov wrote:
         | I really like that you are working on something original and
         | different. Wish you luck.
         | 
         | What is the tech stack behind the product? Do you use WebRTC?
         | Something home-build.
        
         | neurotrace wrote:
         | I think this is a fantastic idea and will be trying it out with
         | some friends later!
         | 
         | The only issue for me is the pricing. The free tier is great
         | for getting your feet wet but the $99 is too expensive for me
         | to consider since I would only be hanging out with a few
         | friends. For me, the ideal would be something in the $15-$30
         | range and would increase the call limit to 3-4 hours. I don't
         | need unlimited meetings or more than 10 people. Best of luck!
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | We'll definitely be bringing such a plan. Until then, please
           | go ahead and use it as much as you want :) Feedback taken!
        
       | gjvc wrote:
       | This is very good. :-) The zooming user interface is a nice
       | touch. It would work well for meetups where you can see lots of
       | people and move from group to group by dragging the mouse.
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | Thank you! How do you think you can potentially use this?
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | Makes a lot of sense!
        
       | lrossi wrote:
       | Very nice! Has a chess game too! If you could add some lighter
       | board games or 2d pool I might spend some time on it!
       | 
       | What can you tell us about security and privacy? Can you create
       | locked rooms? Zoom had a lot of problems with this in the
       | beginning.
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | We'll be adding a lot more games to it. The calls are all end-
         | to-end encrypted. We'll be adding more security features like
         | passwords, locked rooms and gatekeeping to get this aspect
         | right.
        
       | woah wrote:
       | I was interested in building something like this when COVID-19
       | first hit. I think it's still a space with a lot of potential,
       | but there are now a huge number of competitors. I made a
       | spreadsheet and add to it each time I see one of these products
       | come up on HN:
       | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R5DXWtz4H7eIT5VbGYJE...
       | 
       | There are currently at least 18 projects operating in this space.
       | 
       | - The majority (maybe all?) of them are browser-based (probably
       | because it's easy to throw something together with all the JS
       | webrtc example projects out there).
       | 
       | - Most of them seem to be trying to sell to enterprises or
       | conference organizers.
       | 
       | - I suspect that most of them are ghost towns.
       | 
       | - None of them that I've seen actually try to originate events-
       | i.e. the only way you would use them is if you try to organize an
       | event or are invited to one through a different channel.
       | 
       | - Most of them are top-down, although there are a few 3d ones.
       | 
       | I still think that there's a lot of potential for someone to come
       | in and take over this whole space with a product more polished
       | than is possible in the browser, and with a social element that
       | can drive usage of the platform (similar to Clubhouse). I suspect
       | that the winning team will come from the ranks of game
       | developers, not webdevs who cracked open a webrtc tutorial one
       | weekend. For now though, it's probably best to sit back and let
       | the majority of the 18 existing teams burn through their funding.
        
         | hakcermani wrote:
         | A few more for your list .. https://gather.town,
         | https://party.mookerj.ee, https://www.wonder.me,
         | http://workadventu.re, https://theonline.town/
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | There are competitors but our focus is on making sure people
           | are able to build highly personalized spaces. The experience
           | is vastly different than others.
        
         | lksslr wrote:
         | i'm always sad when we are missing on such a list, eventhough I
         | guess we tick most of the boxes you mention...
         | 
         | - parties/social events as focus
         | 
         | - 3d, but not trying to cater for corporate markets
         | 
         | - not a town at all
         | 
         | as you obviously spent some time thinking about this topic I'd
         | really appreciate some feedback: https://laptopsinspace.de
        
           | rl3 wrote:
           | > _as you obviously spent some time thinking about this topic
           | I 'd really appreciate some feedback:
           | https://laptopsinspace.de_
           | 
           | While I'm not OP, I remember seeing this project at the end
           | of April in Three.js Discord. It's neat to see where it's
           | gone since. Bravo. :)
        
         | kodablah wrote:
         | > I suspect that the winning team will come from the ranks of
         | game developers, not webdevs who cracked open a webrtc tutorial
         | one weekend.
         | 
         | I hope it will be two teams. The first will be the devs who
         | build a free SDK to make building such things really easy.
         | Think mediasoup but w/ all the rooms, permissions, servers,
         | state management, etc easy to build with via API. The second
         | team will garner adoption by putting in the effort into putting
         | those pieces together and running/moderating the thing.
        
         | grahamburger wrote:
         | Thanks for posting this list! As it happens I am working on
         | organizing a conference in the coming months and I've been
         | comparing a few similar platforms but there are several on your
         | list and in the comments that I didn't know about.
         | 
         | If anyone has attended a conference recently using one of these
         | platforms I'd love to hear how it went.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tcoff91 wrote:
         | Mozilla Hubs is the best 3d browser-based spatial audio
         | platform I've tried yet by far. I hosted a virtual party in the
         | first lockdown back in April and it was pretty fun and far far
         | better than a zoom call due to the spacial audio. Unfortunately
         | it did become a bit unstable past 15-18 people and you'd have
         | to rejoin the session frequently when it started to crap out
         | under higher load.
         | 
         | There already is a popular platform that fits what you are
         | describing: VRChat.
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | We support up to 100 people in a room.
        
         | rl3 wrote:
         | > _I was interested in building something like this when
         | COVID-19 first hit._
         | 
         | Same here. I spent a panicked month and a half on full-time
         | pre-production for a competing product in this space, as an
         | unfortunate alternative to seeking a job at the time.
         | 
         | > _There are currently at least 18 projects operating in this
         | space._
         | 
         | https://theonline.town/ is missing from your list. There's
         | probably half a dozen more I could add if my notes from the
         | time were properly organized.
         | 
         | Please don't feel bad of course: we've reached a point where
         | full quantification of all non-stealth competitors in a busy
         | space is very difficult, if not impossible. Indeed, your list
         | has projects I was previously unaware of.
         | 
         | > _I think it 's still a space with a lot of potential, but
         | there are now a huge number of competitors._
         | 
         | The number of competitors was staggering. It felt like a
         | veritable gold rush: almost every single novel design concept I
         | came up with was eventually independently thought of, but
         | nobody ever wove each together into something truly cohesive.
         | Heck, even the name was jokingly thought of by some random
         | person on Twitter months later.
         | 
         | > _I still think that there 's a lot of potential for someone
         | to come in and take over this whole space with a product more
         | polished than is possible in the browser,_
         | 
         | I don't think the browser as a platform is an issue; it's
         | extremely capable. There's just a huge amount of apathy and
         | entrenchment in that space now, and the usual rules pertaining
         | to software moats apply just the same. It'd have to be
         | something really special to unseat Zoom and all its clones at
         | this point.
         | 
         | > _I suspect that the winning team will come from the ranks of
         | game developers, not webdevs who cracked open a webrtc tutorial
         | one weekend_
         | 
         | Having watched endless projects borne of weekend WebRTC
         | tutorials spring up during that time period, I cannot agree
         | more.
        
       | JBorrow wrote:
       | Similar products to this exist - wonder.me, and gather.town.
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | You're right. Multiple startups trying to solve this problem.
         | We want to stand out by making it incredibly easy for teams to
         | build personalized spaces.
        
       | rxsel wrote:
       | Reminded me of the potential in proximity chat online outside the
       | realm of video games where it's most prevalent today.
        
       | fooddood wrote:
       | Really cool but why is there no text chat?
       | 
       | Edit: I communicate with my friends IRL primarily through text so
       | having to use audio only is definitely a detractor for me.
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | We'll have to reimagine chat a bit for the platform. It's under
         | works!
        
       | Muralis wrote:
       | Seems to be knockoff of https://spatial.chat/ . How do you
       | differentiate?
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | Our tech - we can handle twice the number of people in a room!
         | We'll also be integrating work apps on to the platform.
        
       | hliyan wrote:
       | I went in expecting to hate it, but I ended up actually liking
       | the idea. Since I'm looking at this from a work perspective, a
       | whiteboard would be nice!
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | Definitely! We're bringing whiteboard pretty soon !
        
       | vyrotek wrote:
       | Nice work. It looks like a fun new take of The Palace Chat!
        
         | Minor49er wrote:
         | I was thinking this too, but couldn't remember the name. Thank
         | you!
         | 
         | Also reminds me of Well of Souls by Synthetic Reality with all
         | of the avatars floating around and the randomly-styled images
         | that pop up. I dig it.
        
         | saberience wrote:
         | It really does
        
         | karmelapple wrote:
         | Now there's a name I haven't heard too recently - except for a
         | handful of us who were part of a group many years ago.
         | 
         | Did you have a favorite Palace server you logged into regularly
         | back in the day?
        
           | ThalesX wrote:
           | Oh man I can't believe I'm seeing this out in the wild in
           | 2021. I used to love The Palace back in the days; would go
           | around an awesome Harry Potter themed server (or room, can't
           | recall the exact structure) and kinda play around in
           | Hogwarts.
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | Someone told me about this today!! We need to build a tribute
         | to The Palace within the product. On it.
        
       | evanb wrote:
       | When I talk IRL I don't use GIFs or stickers, and the only
       | background is whatever is behind me.
       | 
       | I like the idea of moving around to decide who you talk to; it is
       | the premise behind jitsi-powered Work Adventure
       | http://workadventu.re
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | I've never heard of work adventure. Seems really neat! Thanks
         | for sharing!
        
         | jMyles wrote:
         | > jitsi-powered Work Adventure http://workadventu.re
         | 
         | Getting a 404 - "Could not load map."
        
           | remotelyyours wrote:
           | This seems interesting. I'll check it out!
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | I think the idea is to add some sort of flair, like you would
         | in real life. For example, people wear unusual socks, and you'd
         | notice them in real life, but in a video call you'll never see
         | someone's socks. So the video call takes away that dimension of
         | being alive.
         | 
         | I'm not sure GIFs are the answer, but I think that's what the
         | attempt is.
        
         | remram wrote:
         | I don't know if the spatial metaphor really brings anything. I
         | think a few rooms, with proper tooling to signal activity and a
         | way to preview (listen in before you decide to join, or better
         | yet have it play a recent utterance from its beginning) would
         | work wonders. Maybe the system could prompt participants to
         | move to a separate room on sufficient activity, and remind
         | participants to set a text subject once in a while during
         | periods of activity.
         | 
         | Spatialization gives you little, as it's still impossible to
         | listen to multiple conversations at once, and discovering the
         | mapping of location-to-topic is a problem. If you're setting up
         | specific locations for specific topics in advance, what I want
         | to know is who is there and how active they are, not where on a
         | 2D canvas the admin has chosen to position it.
        
           | seedie wrote:
           | Couldn't agreed more. After seeing the first "Video
           | conferencing" tool with spatial audio I was so excited. This
           | excitement got lost instantly when we had our first online
           | christmas party. Being able to hear everyone clearly and loud
           | is not a bug its a feature.
           | 
           | IRL I can change my focus on someone further away without
           | moving at all. Only if Im really interested in that other
           | conversation I will start moving.
           | 
           | A pre-listen feature on mouse over would be awesome.
           | 
           | While I'm still fascinated by the technical aspects imho
           | theres still a lot of room for improvement in the
           | implementation. But its great that there are so many projects
           | tackling this problem and improving online get-togethers
        
           | rozab wrote:
           | I agree with the need to preview whats going on.
           | 
           | In real life spaces, we often decide to switch to a different
           | conversation from hearing a snippet or zoning in to what's
           | going on around you when you're bored of the current talk. In
           | this system, I feel like it would be rude to bring yourself
           | over to a group and then leave again when you decide you're
           | not interested in the conversation. Perhaps being able to
           | mouse over a location to here the audio would be good. I
           | don't think there's much expectation of privacy in a space
           | like this anyway.
           | 
           | I think this spacial arrangement would generally make such
           | social dilemmas easier to handle. For instance, I think it
           | would be more awkward to abruptly leave a room during a
           | conversation than to just sidle away. Leaving slowly could
           | implicitly invite others to follow.
           | 
           | The internet has forced us to create a bunch of new social
           | protocols and norms. Why not design our tools to fit with our
           | existing ones?
        
         | lukeschlather wrote:
         | > When I talk IRL I don't use GIFs or stickers, and the only
         | background is whatever is behind me.
         | 
         | There is no "background" you are surrounded by 3 dimensional
         | space with a variety of objects you can point at or manipulate.
         | Given that you can't share a 3 dimensional space gifs and
         | stickers give you a way to communicate things that require more
         | than 2 dimensions to express.
        
       | econti wrote:
       | This is a shameless copycat of here.fm.
       | 
       | I've been using here.fm for several months and it is awesome. I'd
       | highly recommend you check here.fm out before supporting a
       | company that rips off other people's work.
        
         | woah wrote:
         | There are around 20 different startups doing something like
         | this.
         | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R5DXWtz4H7eIT5VbGYJE...
        
           | econti wrote:
           | Compare reslash's UI/UX to here's and you'll see it's more
           | than just "similar". They literally copied the control bar at
           | the bottom identically.
        
             | remotelyyours wrote:
             | We've similarities to here but our spatial audio is
             | completely different. We can also handle upto 100 people in
             | a room.
        
       | nickelcitymario wrote:
       | I'm digging the idea of spacial audio, but for my 2 cents I do
       | not enjoy the interface. It seems to encourage a lot of loud
       | geocities/MySpace-era visuals.
       | 
       | I'd be interested in a top-down 2D space (like a million games,
       | but just for example: Among Us) with spatial audio. That'd be
       | pretty interesting.
       | 
       | Judging by what my kids like to play, I could see a place in the
       | market for a 2D virtual world with this kind of feature. Create
       | your own spaces, "decorate" them, plus spatial audio. That sounds
       | like a winning combo.
        
         | brianjunyinchan wrote:
         | Check out gather.town
        
           | nickelcitymario wrote:
           | That's more or else exactly what I was thinking. Thanks!
        
       | darepublic wrote:
       | People get louder as you go near to them? Interesting.. I think I
       | would end up hanging around a corner somewhere in the virtual
       | space
        
       | smoyer wrote:
       | This is a cool idea and I like that you've left space "at the
       | top" for an enterprise plan. Of course, I don't know anyone with
       | an account and don't use other social media, so how would I get
       | started?
       | 
       | Is there an interest in having an HN space? ... And how is that
       | done fairly with a limit of 100 people?
        
         | remotelyyours wrote:
         | You can have multiple rooms. This means you can unlimited
         | people in the space. We're also building a broadcast feature so
         | that you can present to all the rooms at the same time. So, the
         | crowd can still talk to each other while listening to a
         | presentation.
        
       | bndw wrote:
       | I stumbled into this same idea with OBS and their virtual cam. I
       | used a window capture to plumb in my VC partner and built a
       | "digital collage" with images, gifs, and browsers.
        
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