[HN Gopher] Synchronized violin players reveal uniqueness of hum...
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Synchronized violin players reveal uniqueness of human networks
Author : kawera
Score : 51 points
Date : 2021-01-05 11:53 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| bunnie wrote:
| > "Human networks behave differently than any other network we've
| ever measured," Fridman told The Jerusalem Post. "In a state of
| frustration, they don't look for a 'middle,' but ignore one of
| the inputs.
|
| Huh. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it might imply a
| causal link between the overwhelming cacophony of modern media,
| and the breakdown of fact based discourse: faced with
| 'frustrated' (irreconcilable) viewpoints, it's the tendency of
| humans to simply ignore one of the inputs, and not seek the
| middle.
| ironmagma wrote:
| Perhaps. As a former orchestral musician I would say the
| behavior comes from the need for there to be a leader -- if all
| that is happening is a cacophony of sound, no one has taken the
| reins as the tempo-keeper and everyone is either not paying
| attention or just confused. By joining with one of the other
| inputs, you create a majority or at least a plurality, and then
| the expectation is the other musicians will adjust to join the
| plurality. You might also increase volume or exaggerate
| movements to get everyone on board.
| powersnail wrote:
| > Instead, Fridman et al. found that the players reacted by
| adjusting their playing, quickening or slowing their tempo to
| better synchronize with their fellow violinists
|
| Not to take away from paper's conclusion, but that is what
| professional orchestra musicians do. You are taught to "blend
| in", regardless of whether the whole section is rushing or
| lagging.
|
| A conductor can fix tempo issue, but can't fix a un-synchronized
| section.
|
| I'd like to see this experiment repeated on some soloists. (You
| do see soloists fighting the orchestra sometimes, to enforce
| their own interpretation, rather the conductors)
| dcsommer wrote:
| Constructive comment first: as a piece of music/art, I find this
| quite enjoyable to listen to!
|
| > "In a state of frustration, they don't look for a 'middle,' but
| ignore one of the inputs. This is a critical phenomenon that is
| changing the dynamics of the network. Human networks are able to
| change their inner structure in order to reach a better solution
| than what's possible in existing models."
|
| This may be true of trained musicians (who have to deal with this
| kind of thing in ensemble playing. I'm reminded of when I've
| volunteered in less experienced or youth orchestras), but I would
| be careful to extrapolate or expect similar results in other
| human systems.
|
| My biggest gripe here is that I find it incredibly distracting
| when videos of string players do not sync the video to the sound
| they produced. You can easily notice it when a single violinist
| changes bow direction and the sound doesn't change. In a study
| and art piece about synchronization, syncing video to audio is
| pretty crucial!
| elliekelly wrote:
| > My biggest gripe here is that I find it incredibly
| distracting when videos of string players do not sync to the
| video to the sound they produced. You can easily notice it when
| a single violinist changes bow direction and the sound doesn't
| change. In a study and art piece about synchronization, syncing
| video to audio is pretty crucial!
|
| Could this have to do with the structure of the experiment?
| Since they're playing "together" (physically) but are hearing
| each other play on a delay I would imagine only one player in
| the video could sync with the audio?
| WhompingWindows wrote:
| Really cool work! They composed a simple melodic fragment and had
| numerous violinists play it with electric violins. They then had
| them use noise-cancelling headphones and selectively fed them
| only a couple collabrators' violin playing. They then blocked
| them from sight of the others, introduced delays, switched whose
| playing they could hear.
|
| The implications here are pretty fascinating. Do humans conform
| to the average of others' playing, or do they pick one out (it's
| probably the latter)? Do they attempt to enforce "correctness"
| onto their own playing, or do they slow down/speed up to
| prioritize "unison" with others?
|
| I know from playing in musical ensembles for years, each musician
| has their own approach. Some are confident and self-righteous,
| they really "sing out" and put their intonation and timing into
| the fore. Other musicians are blenders, they do very well solo
| but their main goal is to blend in perfectly with their
| neighbors. Then there are shy people, who try to hide in the
| background and blend in, and they don't want their voice heard.
|
| The actual technical aspects of music are very precise, and yet
| we have this layer of artistry which is adapting to delays,
| improperly tuned things, or even improvisatory, stylistic
| flourishes. I love it! It's an artistic math, it's a mathematical
| manipulation of artistic objects.
| zevv wrote:
| Steve Reich was there all along:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin_Phase
|
| (And a wonderful interpretation on Cello:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7aj796c3A0)
| dnautics wrote:
| If you've ever seen music for 18 musicians live, for me, it was
| an amazing experience. I think some of those techniques are
| used. I started hallucinating about 30 minutes into it.
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