[HN Gopher] Epic Games just bought a North Carolina mall for its...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Epic Games just bought a North Carolina mall for its new
       headquarters
        
       Author : Reedx
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2021-01-05 17:28 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | vanilla_nut wrote:
       | I used to work for a company in NYS that used a section of a
       | converted mall for office space. God, that was the worst office
       | space I've ever been in -- the floors moved a ton when you moved
       | your chair, echoed when you walked around, the temperatures were
       | absolutely all over the place depending on how close you were to
       | a heater/cooling vent, and worst of all... malls don't really
       | have windows.
       | 
       | Working in a converted mall might as well be working in a prison,
       | for all I can tell. The walkway through the middle was kind of
       | nice (and the food court still functioned as a cafeteria, so you
       | could walk fully indoors during cold winter/hot summer days to
       | get a coffee or lunch)... but I think I'd still rather be able to
       | see the outdoors from my desk.
        
         | quesera wrote:
         | Epic will be redeveloping the entire 87-acre site, for
         | reopening in 2024.
         | 
         | The mall is in Cary, NC (Raleigh-Durham / RTP area).
         | 
         | Ironically, I was thinking it'd be kind of cool to work in an
         | old mall building (with the typical US indoor shopping mall
         | layout). Inefficient in many ways (parking, space utilization,
         | HVAC), but the idea of locating teams in small (fishbowl?)
         | office-like pods seems interesting.
         | 
         | Natural light would be a problem. The food court could be
         | appealing...
         | 
         | Some of the complaints you mention sound like they might be
         | specific to that building? Commercial floors should be standard
         | build slab/tray concrete in a mall or office building. Retail
         | HVAC should be adequate if inefficient.. Then again, a failed
         | mall might have failed for a long list of reasons, and a crappy
         | physical plant is definitely one of them!
        
           | xnyan wrote:
           | I did some construction work at this mall in college. Of the
           | many many problems, natural light is probably number 1. It's
           | an absolute dungeon, dark and oppressive. I don't see how you
           | fix it besides blowing it up and starting over.
        
             | Grazester wrote:
             | Anything can be done especially if you have the will and
             | the money.
        
               | r00fus wrote:
               | I thought Epic was moving there _because_ of the money
               | savings...
        
               | falcolas wrote:
               | Money's not infinite (not even Epic's money). Much of the
               | time, it's better (cost-effective) to demolish and start
               | fresh, especially if the foundation and infrastructure
               | are even remotely sketchy.
               | 
               | Demolishing isn't really _that_ expensive, at this kind
               | of scale.
        
               | jbverschoor wrote:
               | It actually is! The reserve requirements are 0%, which
               | makes money effectively infinite
        
               | ACow_Adonis wrote:
               | actually there's a case of problems that involve natural
               | evolution, survivorship over time and distributed actors.
               | It can be argued this is also possible if you have the
               | will and the money, but it practically never happens
               | (arguably a minority of vc money maybe?) that people with
               | will and money give it away to a large number of
               | distributed decision makers over a time period to produce
               | a single specific goal.
               | 
               | It might seem like I'm splitting hairs, but actually
               | urban design and working/living environment is exactly
               | hypothesised to be one of those cases. It's why some
               | people argue successful downturn areas and urban
               | environments with walkability and diversity of
               | use/design/ spectacle (so not most US cities), because
               | they have evolved that way from lots of little
               | distributed inconsistent designs, but with individual
               | members tested, repurposed and surviving due to evolution
               | over time.
               | 
               | When a big developer or mega Corp develops or designs,
               | you don't get natural evolution and diversity of design
               | over time, you get mass sameness and waterfall design.
               | It's why you get planned community aesthetics and
               | corporate brand + policy rather than what organically
               | works. The best of them might be bright and shiny (see
               | Apple office/campus), but they still have the overarching
               | ethos of singular design and absolute central/corporate
               | control. Some people like that environment, personally I
               | don't like working in it (don't get me wrong, i'd rather
               | work in a good one rather than a bad one though).
               | 
               | In practice they don't get it perfect. I imagine a lot of
               | people could list problems with the Apple campus in
               | practice, and I'd be good money this isn't going to be
               | the Apple campus...
        
           | vanilla_nut wrote:
           | The article mentions that "some structures" will be
           | demolished, but that other plans are far from certain. I'll
           | definitely keep an eye on this to see if they do a better job
           | converting this mall than the converted mall that I've
           | experienced!
        
         | notional wrote:
         | Amazon bought the upper floors of the Seattle downtown Macys
         | building. I worked in there for a few days to get a feel for it
         | out of curiosity (my team was in a dif building). It was awful,
         | it was completely dark inside, almost no natural light, the
         | building is old as shit and super janky as a result. It's also
         | across the street from McStabs so once they moved in, every
         | Seattle employee started getting emergency stay inside texts
         | because of the street level problems outside that building.
        
           | ionwake wrote:
           | Sorry I am from the UK what do you mean? Is there alot of
           | crime in Seattle around the MC restaurants?
        
             | Analemma_ wrote:
             | Not McDonalds in general, but one particular McDonalds in
             | Seattle is located at a spot with a large number of
             | homeless people, where crime and open-air drug use is
             | pretty common.
        
               | ionwake wrote:
               | That is odd, I dont think there are any locations in the
               | UK where there is open drug use. I also remember seeing
               | clearly mentally ill people on the streets in Miami,
               | something you dont see here ( though you do see homeless
               | every now again - rarely tents ). Is that just a normal
               | feature in cities in the US?
        
               | nradov wrote:
               | It's a normal feature of many large cities in the US,
               | particularly those run by more progressive politicians.
               | No city has adequate mental health treatment facilities
               | or homeless services. Open drug use has been de facto
               | decriminalized: elected District Attorneys refuse to
               | prosecute and thus police don't bother making arrests.
               | 
               | I do support treating addiction as a health problem
               | rather than a crime. But the current approach in cities
               | like San Francisco is wrecking quality of life for
               | regular people.
        
       | birdyrooster wrote:
       | Rackspace did a similar thing in San Antonio. There are many
       | photos of the transition here:
       | https://www.mysanantonio.com/lifestyle/slideshow/Photos-show...
        
         | notwhereyouare wrote:
         | did I miss the after photos? That seems to be all before photos
        
           | Rendello wrote:
           | My adblocker blocked the "after" photos for me
        
           | crftr wrote:
           | If you have an active adblocker, try disabling. I had a
           | similar issue.
        
         | msisk6 wrote:
         | Yeah, that was fun. I worked in the Rackspace Austin office (an
         | old call center building with it's own problems) but I often
         | had to be in San Antonio for meetings.
         | 
         | The noise was crazy. Even after taking steps to address the
         | noise it was still an issue. Not much you can do with all the
         | concrete a mall is typically made of.
         | 
         | And the 2nd floor shook and moved around a lot after folks
         | moved in. It was actually nauseating.
        
           | DoofusOfDeath wrote:
           | I'm no expert, but I have a little experience with sound
           | mitigation.
           | 
           | IME, the effort needed to reduce unwanted noise depends a lot
           | on the frequency range.
           | 
           |  _Very_ roughly speaking, dampening high-frequency sounds can
           | be done with relatively thin and light sound-absorbing
           | materials. Lower-frequency noise, including vibrations that
           | shake the building 's superstructure, require more extensive
           | modifications.
           | 
           | It would be awesome if an actual acoustic engineer or
           | architect could weigh in on this.
        
             | birdyrooster wrote:
             | I wonder if you could use active noise cancelling on the
             | floors
        
         | Rendello wrote:
         | uBlock origin blocks all of the "after" picures but none of the
         | before ones, I was confused for a good two minutes!
        
         | 0xffff2 wrote:
         | Is that really what typical tech office space looks like these
         | days? I know I'm really lucky to have my own office (pre-
         | pandemic), but that looks absolutely miserable. Acres of half-
         | wall cubicles without an ounce of thought for blocking auditory
         | or visual distractions?
        
       | corysama wrote:
       | Probably got a good deal on it. Malls were overbuilt for quite a
       | while and oversupply has had many of them struggling for over a
       | decade.
        
         | mhh__ wrote:
         | They're all rammed with tricks to get you to consume, too.
        
       | entangledqubit wrote:
       | I believe the Google X building in Mountain View on San Antonio
       | used to be the Mayfield Mall. They did a nice job renovating it
       | for their purposes but you still feel like you're at a mall when
       | you go through the building.
        
       | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
       | Will Former Malls soon become the new Former PizzaHuts?
        
       | wowzers123 wrote:
       | Meh, Tencent owns a huge portion of them. At least there are
       | still good American game dev jobs though.
        
         | wowzers123 wrote:
         | Pray tell, the downvote without an explanation. Business with
         | China is good and all until you remember what happened with
         | Blizzard and what happens with Disney, NBA...
        
       | acheron wrote:
       | They should release a new ZZT world set in an office/mall to
       | celebrate.
        
       | xnyan wrote:
       | In college, I pulled a gas line through 30 feet of existing
       | retail space at this very mall for a retrofit asian bistro. It's
       | an absolute dump, no natural light, sprawling and fundematly
       | unfixable early 80s bad mall architecture.
       | 
       | I have a friend who lives across the street from Epic's existing
       | HQ. It looks like a fun-looking building to work in, I have a
       | hard time imagining Cary Towne Center not being a downgrade no
       | matter how much cash you throw at renovation. Just getting the
       | all-permeating smell of stale roasted popcorn out of the concrete
       | is going to take a small fortune.
        
         | wyldfire wrote:
         | "no natural light" -- don't most indoor malls have lots of
         | skylights? I suppose that's only in the common/transit areas
         | and not in the shops (where offices are)?
        
           | xnyan wrote:
           | So, fun story. I did not know this at the time, but I then
           | (and now to much lesser degree) had pretty significant
           | sensory overload/over-sensitivity issues particularly with
           | light. I vividly remember being taken to Cary Town Center by
           | my parents and for some reason feeling an overwhelming sense
           | of relief, though I did not understand why at the time. Going
           | back as an adult, I realized it's because the place was a
           | freaking cave.
           | 
           | I think even mid 80-90s malls had much more natural light,
           | but Cary Towne Center was built in 79 and I think even if
           | they turned the roof into a sheet of plexiglass that the
           | layout would keep large sections dark. The food court for
           | example is on the first floor and is lined with shops,
           | preventing easy windows of any kind.
           | 
           | Maybe they can use a series of mirrors?
        
         | Gabriel_Martin wrote:
         | You say "no matter how much cash you throw at renovation", but
         | I think you may be underestimating just how much Fortnite alone
         | makes, apparently in 2019, Fortnite brought in revenues of $1.8
         | billion. With costs of labor in NC, I'm betting they're feeling
         | pretty confident about the renovation.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | In 2020, Epic's revenues were somewhere above $4 billion.
           | 
           | I'm sure they got that mall really, really cheap. Here's the
           | current store list.[1] They're down to 22 small tenants,
           | including the co-working space and the model train club.
           | 
           | [1]https://www.shopcarytownecentermall.com/directory
        
             | wtallis wrote:
             | I've seen a $95 million figure reported for Epic's
             | purchase. They're buying it from a group who picked it up
             | in 2019 for $31.5 million after IKEA cancelled plans to
             | build a store there.
        
       | eurodancemag wrote:
       | Thats wow now it's time to beat PUBG
        
       | sli wrote:
       | If the teams are small enough, they could be put in the vacant
       | shops. It would probably still feel a bit open-plan, though.
        
       | kingnothing wrote:
       | Sounds terrible unless they're able to add windows to all of the
       | current stores.
        
       | AceyMan wrote:
       | Google is in the middle of refitting the former Westside
       | Pavilion, located at Westwood & Pico, as a new Los Angeles
       | office. The last I'd seen a few months ago, it'd been taken down
       | to the floors and structural risers; all the walls and other
       | partitions are gone, so they'll be able to include natural light
       | however they see fit.
        
       | gallamine wrote:
       | If anyone is curious, here is the mall in question:
       | https://goo.gl/maps/pdJPjXz1zbrNmXSn8
       | 
       | I grew up down the road from this place.
        
         | morsch wrote:
         | Here's a video from inside: https://youtu.be/SqhMhJ-uFGY
         | 
         | There are a couple more like this on YouTube. Dead mall videos
         | are a genre.
        
       | Apocryphon wrote:
       | Epic seems to be the one company in the Research Triangle that's
       | been making the news often, recently. Wonder how the startup
       | scene has been in Raleigh-Durham-Cary.
        
       | generj wrote:
       | That's one way to encourage your employees to walk a certain
       | amount per day.
        
       | exrackthrow wrote:
       | They should call it "Castle".
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | nickelcitymario wrote:
       | I've long said that if I ever struck it stupid rich, I'd buy a
       | mall to live in.
       | 
       | It would still have stores. I'd pay to have those stores stocked.
       | Ideally it would have a 90s-era movie theatre in it, too. But
       | otherwise it would be empty.
       | 
       | Why? So that I can live every day like I'm the last surviving
       | human. Dawn of the Dead, minus the flesh eaters.
       | 
       | (Alternative plan: buy up a ghost town. Same plan, otherwise.)
        
         | Yoofie wrote:
         | Tangent: You may or may not be interested in this Youtube
         | channel [1] where a guy buys a Ghost Town.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/c/GhostTownLiving/videos
        
         | Rumudiez wrote:
         | Brent Underwood actually did buy a ghost town to live in! He
         | has a YouTube channel called Ghost Town Living which shows him
         | exploring the abandoned mines and restoring original buildings
         | in the ghost town of Cerro Gordo. I believe his plans are to
         | one day open it as a retreat destination.
        
         | Melting_Harps wrote:
         | > I've long said that if I ever struck it stupid rich, I'd buy
         | a mall to live in.
         | 
         | > It would still have stores. I'd pay to have those stores
         | stocked. Ideally it would have a 90s-era movie theater in it,
         | too. But otherwise it would be empty.
         | 
         | Remember that 90s kid movie 'Blank Check?' I wrote a short fan
         | art film script as a 13 year old that followed a similar
         | premise, the origin of the funds were that the kid was a
         | 'hacker' so the kid stole the funds from a crooked stockbroker
         | firm trying to launder their money and ended up taking so much
         | he ended up living in an abandoned mall and 'sold warez' out of
         | the stores with various business models.. I recently saw the
         | notebook and I had clearly recently just saw that movie with
         | Angelina Jolie and Swordfish when I wrote that as that was
         | around the time I had just discovered Newsgroups.
         | 
         | I somehow managed to get to the beginning of the 2nd act and
         | just forgot about it entirely until the day I re-read it, haha.
         | Which for being 13 was more resolve than I thought I had.
        
           | nickelcitymario wrote:
           | I'd watch this movie. Especially if it somehow had Hackers-
           | era Angelina Jolie, Mathew Lillard, and Jonny Lee Miller. Or,
           | plot twist: Those 3 are now the old/lame parents of the young
           | hacker(s).
        
             | Melting_Harps wrote:
             | > I'd watch this movie. Especially if it somehow had
             | Hackers-era Angelina Jolie, Mathew Lillard, and Jonny Lee
             | Miller. Or, plot twist: Those 3 are now the old/lame
             | parents of the young hacker(s).
             | 
             | Maybe I should revisit that script then... I've definitely
             | gotten more ideas about where it would go now that we're in
             | 2021 and I have way more to work with to flesh it out. It
             | probably wouldn't end up appealing to the Disney crowds
             | like the original, though. Ha.
             | 
             | How is the book app going?
             | 
             | I found more old scripts in boxes I want to update when I
             | have the time, some of my other fan art pilots are digital
             | but lack the proper format of a script and your project
             | sounds interesting for amateur writers as I imagine you
             | have specific templates for the specific type of writing
             | one would use.
             | 
             | All of my formatting is all off and looks like I just wrote
             | long format stories in paragraph with quotes for dialogue
             | as I didn't know any better and just did what I saw in
             | books and wrote with total abandon in a way that only made
             | sense to me.
             | 
             | What would be cool would be able to denote where the arcs
             | and acts are as you're writing to be able to go back to
             | after long pauses.
             | 
             | I'd pay for that! ;)
             | 
             | Sidenote: I think I enjoyed finding out out Ray Bradbury
             | wrote Farenheit 451 on a rented typewriter at UCLA just as
             | much as reading the book, and especially more than watching
             | the movie.
        
               | nickelcitymario wrote:
               | > How is the book app going?
               | 
               | Thanks for asking! PaperbackAuthor is coming along.
               | 
               | > [...] I imagine you have specific templates for the
               | specific type of writing one would use.
               | 
               | Right now I'm shooting for the absolute minimum viable
               | product, so on day one it will be a super simple editor
               | that can export to ePub and PDF.
               | 
               | But I've got lots of idea of features I want to roll out,
               | including support for different types of writing. My
               | theory is that what makes most editing software
               | problematic is they try to create one approach to writing
               | many types of things, so they fail to be particularly
               | good at any one of them. With PaperbackAuthor, I'm
               | building the editor I've always wanted for the purpose of
               | writing novels and novellas.
               | 
               | Later, I might roll out support for, say, screenplays. Or
               | graphic novels. Or text books. Or illustrated books. Etc.
               | Each format deserves its own dedicated editor.
               | 
               | > What would be cool would be able to denote where the
               | archs and acts are as you're writing to be able to go
               | back to after long pauses.
               | 
               | I've got some ideas around this, too. But, I need to make
               | sure they're genuinely useful. Some of my ideas, in
               | hindsight, amount to little more than "Trello-like cards
               | in a sidebar", which isn't much of an improvement over
               | simply keeping Trello in a separate tab or window.
        
             | RHSeeger wrote:
             | Plot twist 2: Unknown to the kids, all three "old/lame
             | parents" are actually super hackers, hiding from the
             | government.
        
               | nickelcitymario wrote:
               | This story keeps getting better.
        
         | jlack wrote:
         | Here's a youtube channel if you'd like to experience living in
         | a ghost town vicariously.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEjBDKfrqQI4TgzT9YLNT8g
         | 
         | Guy bought an old silver mining town and has been living there
         | over the pandemic
        
           | nickelcitymario wrote:
           | Love his channel. This may be what initially caused me to
           | think it would be cool to own a whole town.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-01-05 23:02 UTC)