[HN Gopher] Working from Bed
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Working from Bed
        
       Author : edward
       Score  : 112 points
       Date   : 2021-01-03 07:50 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | neom wrote:
       | I'm a 35 year old who internetted/"worked" from bed all the time
       | in my teens and 20s, I really believe doing this:
       | 
       | - Removed the sanctity of bed. The bed is a great place to train
       | yourself to decompress and unwind.
       | 
       | - Absolutely destroyed my back. I'd build pillow forts around
       | myself to compensate for increasing weak muscles.
       | 
       | - Hindered the ability to notice shifts in my mood/difficulties
       | in my routine. Eg: I struggle to get out of bed these days.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | proverbialbunny wrote:
         | >Absolutely destroyed my back. I'd build pillow forts around
         | myself to compensate for increasing weak muscles.
         | 
         | Yep. I had to learn muscle building exercises to get out of
         | that situation. It's totally worth it.
        
         | user_501238901 wrote:
         | Idk how you can destroy your back working from your bed, unless
         | you do some idiotic posture. Just lay down, face up, back to
         | the bed, computer on top of your stomach.
         | 
         | Know a person with an actual destroyed back who can't even
         | drive a car, but is able to work from bed.
        
           | JimBlackwood wrote:
           | Muscle atrophy will do that for you. Things get harder and
           | you do it less. It'll be a challenge to get your muscles back
           | to where they were.
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | Who does a compromise of that, like on a zen cushion ?
        
       | cm2012 wrote:
       | I have a dedicated room for an office in my house with everything
       | I need for productivity. Yet sometimes I feel more productive
       | with a laptop on the couch or bed. I wonder why.
        
       | diveanon wrote:
       | Author is fairly young.
       | 
       | This will destroy your back after even a short amount of time.
        
         | devilduck wrote:
         | I've been doing this for years, my back is fine, and I'm 40.
         | Cut this nonsense out.
        
         | saagarjha wrote:
         | I'm 21 and enjoy working from bed. I did it for a week or two
         | when I was at my parent's house for break once and it totally
         | destroyed my back. These days I only do it when it's especially
         | cold out.
        
         | racl101 wrote:
         | So fast. Ugh, I'm 27 and even just looking at these pics makes
         | me cringe.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | Not to mention muscle atrophy, including cardiac output.
        
         | squeaky-clean wrote:
         | My back hurts just looking at the 4 images at the top of the
         | article. Also the positions in the upper-left, upper-right, and
         | image further down the page cause lots of elbow strain. I had
         | several months of numbness in my hands from spending too much
         | time resting on my elbows like these photos.
        
       | racl101 wrote:
       | I could never do this.
       | 
       | 1) My back would hurt after a half hour of this.
       | 
       | 2) My brain would not be engaged in a state of too much comfort.
       | (i.e. I'd get sleepy). In fact, I even keep my work room in the
       | house kinda cold (by not putting in a heater) so I can be more
       | alert.
       | 
       | 3) I'm a developer so I need a full keyboard and multiple
       | screens.
       | 
       | 4) Most importantly, I need a clear separation or line of
       | delineation between work and rest. I don't want to mix the two
       | together. The thought is as perverse to me as eating while taking
       | a shit.
        
         | pottertheotter wrote:
         | I'm the same. I've been WFH for a while and I need to get up,
         | take a shower, get dressed, and go to my desk or I never really
         | get going. Sometimes I'll do some work on a laptop on the
         | couch, but it's the type of work where I'm more casually
         | looking up information. Or I'll print out something I need to
         | read and go to the couch. Otherwise, I'm so much more
         | productive and engaged when I'm at my desk with keyboard,
         | mouse, and monitor.
         | 
         | My wife is the polar opposite. We're lucky to be in a situation
         | where we can both have dedicated home offices at this time. We
         | already had a desk for her, but her work let her take home a
         | good chair, and two monitors with a stand. We set up a really
         | nice office for her, but I'd say that she works from bed or the
         | couch 95% of the time. In fact, the only time she uses her
         | office is when she has an important video call.
         | 
         | I don't know how she does it, and I still believe that she
         | would be more productive/efficient at a desk. For me, just
         | having the extra screen real estate and a keyboard and mouse
         | are enough for me to want to be at my desk.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | otagekki wrote:
       | While being between 4 walls might seem isolating, I would happily
       | take a 20 second commute (i.e. opening the computer and voila
       | you're at work) over a 160-minute round trip commute any day.
       | Especially when the feeling of isolation can easily be mitigated
       | by a 20 min walk in the city at lunch time.
        
       | adamgluck wrote:
       | Winston Churchill famously did most of his work from bed and he
       | won World War II, so I buy it.
        
       | guscost wrote:
       | "Stop the spread, stay in bed"
        
       | rubyn00bie wrote:
       | I don't recommend working from bed, but for a pretty simple
       | reason. If you're laying down, for the majority of your day,
       | after about six months your back will be incredibly weak. It will
       | then be painful to sit in a chair for an equal amount of time;
       | and no chair will fix it. You'll have to regain your back,
       | shoulder, neck strength to alleviate the pain which takes months.
        
       | panzagl wrote:
       | Further proof Douglas Adams was right about the origins of humans
       | on Earth...
        
       | Toutouxc wrote:
       | My WFH desk is in my bedroom because of space constraints. The
       | fact that it's there doesn't bother me one bit and I have no
       | desire to work from bed, curled around the 14" laptop I do my
       | coding on, instead of the 43" 4K screen I have on the desk.
       | 
       | But there are moments (once or twice a day) when I need to work
       | on a specific piece of code that I don't mind center stage on the
       | laptop display and I unplug everything and move to the bed for 20
       | minutes just for the calm, cozy feeling and a little bit of extra
       | concentration.
        
         | wing-_-nuts wrote:
         | >instead of the 43" 4K screen I have on the desk.
         | 
         | I've been patiently waiting for a 32" 4k 144hz hdmi 2.1 ips
         | display. I've noticed manufacturers seem to like making them in
         | 27" (too small) and 43" (too big!) sizes.
         | 
         | I have questions. How far away do you sit? How is a 43" screen
         | for coding? Do you use a tiling window manager to allocate all
         | that space? Do you use it for gaming at all? If so, how hard is
         | it to keep track of everything on the display? Do you find
         | yourself having to turn your head to keep track of everything?
        
           | michaelt wrote:
           | Not the OP, but I use a 40" 4k screen.
           | 
           |  _> How far away do you sit?_
           | 
           | 70cm - closer than a TV, further than a smaller monitor.
           | 
           | I have it wall-mounted on an arm, so I can adjust the
           | distance if I feel the need (which is rare)
           | 
           | Browsers and IDEs and terminals all let you scale the fonts,
           | and I apply a modest amount of zoom.
           | 
           |  _> How is a 43 " screen for coding?_
           | 
           | I like my 40" screen, and I'd recommend one to anyone with
           | the space. I chose a single large screen in preference to a
           | multi-monitor setup.
           | 
           | I'd probably have liked it even more when I was a teen with
           | great eyesight.
           | 
           |  _> Do you use a tiling window manager to allocate all that
           | space?_
           | 
           | No, but you _will_ often want to use multiple windows - CAD
           | software and things you might still fullscreen, but webpages
           | and suchlike don 't generally benefit from it.
           | 
           | When I got it, Ubuntu let you tile windows with
           | Ctrl+Alt+Numpad - alas they dumped that feature, so now I
           | have to resize my windows manually.
           | 
           |  _> Do you use it for gaming at all? If so, how hard is it to
           | keep track of everything on the display?_
           | 
           | Yes, but I generally play slow-paced games like Civilization.
           | 
           | Many games scale up the entire UI with screen resolution, and
           | you can always move your chair back if you want the small-
           | screen experience.
           | 
           | Obviously, if you want to play fast-paced games like FPSes in
           | 4K you'll need a $$$ graphics card; initially, I had a "4K
           | capable" GPUs and it would run spreadsheets and web browsing
           | and 4K video no problem - but not a triple-A FPS.
           | 
           |  _> Do you find yourself having to turn your head to keep
           | track of everything?_
           | 
           | With my seating I move my eyes rather than my head.
        
           | Toutouxc wrote:
           | This is a monitor that I took from the office where I have a
           | larger desk that allows me to sit around 100 cm from it. ATM
           | it's around 75 cm from my eyes and it's a little too close.
           | 
           | I don't use scaling, so it's basically like having four 21.5"
           | FullHD panels, and the distance isn't that problematic
           | because of the pixel density, but mainly because of the fact
           | that it occupies my whole visual field and it feels a bit
           | weird.
           | 
           | I have it hooked to a vanilla Ubuntu machine with GNOME,
           | nothing special. I usually put RubyMine (I do Ruby on Rails)
           | with all the bells and whistles and sidebars and toolbars on
           | the left side of the screen, full height, which gives me a
           | FullHD code editor and a FullHD debugger window, and on the
           | left side I have a browser window with a terminal or a JS
           | console. And some Spotify peeking behind it or something.
           | This gets me through the whole day, I don't need any i3-style
           | black magic to handle my 5 windows.
           | 
           | The screen has been sitting in the office for quite a while.
           | People tried it for a bit and went back to their 3X" 4K
           | panels, but I fell in love with it immediately.
           | 
           | Actually the "having to turn your head" is the most
           | interesting aspect. Yes, I do have to turn my head a lot. I
           | have to turn my head and sometimes move my whole body when I
           | need to see some detail somewhere and I like that about this
           | setup. Not sure whether it's ergonomic or healthy but I like
           | that I can physically move myself further left or right and
           | focus on one part of the screen.
           | 
           | Unfortunately, I use a PS4 for gaming and my laptops are an
           | iGPU-equipped Dell and a M1 Macbook Air, so 3D gaming in 4K
           | is out of the question.
        
           | jnwatson wrote:
           | I have a 49" 4k curved TV as a monitor. 43" is in no way too
           | big. I'd say that 49" is slightly too large, but 43" would be
           | about perfect.
           | 
           | Turning your head is a function of field of view, which is a
           | function of screen size and distance. It is easy to change
           | the distance with a keyboard tray or a monitor mount.
        
       | FpUser wrote:
       | Was working from home for the last 20 years except for occasional
       | visits to clients / shareholders meetings. So far enjoying the
       | freedom of not being stuck in the office environment that I do
       | not appreciate at all and not wasting my time on commute.
       | 
       | With that I can't even remotely imagine myself working from bed.
       | I do exactly 2 things in bed - 1) sleep, 2) wild guess here
        
       | itsnot2020 wrote:
       | I've worked from home pretty much my entire career (over 20 years
       | now, and am fortunate to have a dedicated office) and the last
       | thing I ever want to do is work from bed.
       | 
       | I need some distance between my bedroom and office both
       | physically and mentally.
        
       | ReaganFJones wrote:
       | Most work-from-bed setups are ergonomic disasters. The typical
       | person who works from bed is not getting a $5,995 Zero Gravity
       | setup or anything like that.
       | 
       | Ergonomic issues aside, many commenters in this thread have
       | discussed the other drawbacks of re-purposing your bed for work.
        
       | emptyparadise wrote:
       | Working from bed is great when you're too depressed to get out of
       | bed. I'd rather nor do it otherwise, but I appreciate the
       | flexibility of being able to do it.
        
       | ateng wrote:
       | The fantastic educational YouTuber CGP Grey did a video detailing
       | why working from bed is a terrible idea
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=snAhsXyO3Ck
        
       | andybak wrote:
       | I spend 90% of my working day horizontal - bed, sofa and even the
       | bath.
       | 
       | I don't admit to it often but there you go.
        
         | sgt wrote:
         | It's not good for you long term. I recommend taking one of the
         | bedrooms in your house and converting into a proper home
         | office. And wear slightly more formal clothing than pyjamas. It
         | does wonders to productivity and discipline.
        
           | devilduck wrote:
           | I will never do anything you have recommended and I will
           | still be as productive as you are. Thanks though!
        
       | Thaxll wrote:
       | Bed should only be using for sleeping, no tv in room etc ...
        
         | rozab wrote:
         | Glad I can tick off 'comment that rephrases first sentence of
         | the article' from todays HN bingo
        
         | unnouinceput wrote:
         | And you can turn off said TV when going to sleep
        
       | nxpnsv wrote:
       | My lower back wishes to dispute posted title...
        
       | devilduck wrote:
       | It would be really nice if everyone in this thread would stop
       | trying to turn their personal feelings about this into universal
       | truth. How many times to we have to hear about the negative
       | effects of this from someone who misses going into an office?
        
       | timvisee wrote:
       | The only think you'll do by working from bed, is destroying your
       | back. Don't do it.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | geocrasher wrote:
       | I've been WFH full time since 2011. I could not even finish this
       | article.
       | 
       | Anyone who thinks that working from bed is good in any way,
       | shape, or form, is deluding themselves. It's an ergonomic
       | nightmare that is unsustainable. It's lack of separation between
       | Life and Work. It's everything WFH should NOT be.
       | 
       | In a year, there will be another article that says "Working from
       | Bed: Maybe not so much"
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | I think it must depend on what kind of work people do. I really
         | have no idea what non-engineering jobs are like, but I feel
         | like they probably require less screen real-estate and text
         | entry, and so don't demand the same ergonomics that writing
         | software (or doing CAD modeling, etc.) requires.
         | 
         | I can tell you that I personally hate being away from my
         | desktop. I like the feeling of the office chair, I like my
         | ergonomic keyboard, I like having a ton of monitors to organize
         | my triple-wide Emacs window, some terminals, some browsers for
         | documentation, Slack, Discord, a music player, etc. But...
         | other people probably don't do as much I/O with their computer,
         | and can probably lay in bed and get stuff done.
         | 
         | When I worked at Google I always saw people sitting on bouncy
         | balls typing away on their laptops, and I guess they got stuff
         | done doing that, so I just chalk it up as "I don't personally
         | understand it". I like my desk, but I see no reason to require
         | people to sit at desks all day if they'd prefer to be in bed.
         | If it doesn't work for them, they'll probably stop doing it.
        
         | devilduck wrote:
         | I'm literally the person you are saying is deluding myself so I
         | will continue to laugh at assertions like this one. Not be
         | taken seriously at all, and should be discarded into the trash
         | can
        
         | merpnderp wrote:
         | When my team was sent home because of COVID we were told to set
         | up home offices and offered equipment if we needed it and told
         | we had to have an office space, even if just a desk by our bed
         | because the consultants had shown how bad it was for your
         | physical and mental health to work from a bed.
         | 
         | I can't imagine anyone thinking being hunched over all day with
         | your neck leaning forward could somehow magically be good for
         | their back and neck alignment, or that lying down all day would
         | be a positive of your cardio health. You'd think they'd be
         | convinced when they went to look for any research backing their
         | bizarre claims and couldn't find any.
        
         | andybak wrote:
         | > Anyone who thinks that working from bed is good in any way,
         | shape, or form, is deluding themselves.
         | 
         | I do love being told I'm deluded.
        
       | Karawebnetwork wrote:
       | On the opposite, I'd say it's a great way to destroy your sleep
       | routine and habits. As a rule of thumb, your bed should be
       | dedicated to sleep and cuddles with your significant other.
       | 
       | "This study indicates that the use of computers and mobile
       | telephones in the bedroom are related to poor sleep habits"
       | https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1365-2869...
       | 
       | "Computer use, TV viewing, and the presence of media in
       | children's bedrooms may reduce sleep duration, and delay
       | bedtimes." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23886318/
        
         | echlebek wrote:
         | It's also a great way to destroy your neck and back. If you
         | thought you had problems with ergonomics at your desk, it will
         | be way worse typing away in a bed.
        
         | devwastaken wrote:
         | Having a seperate office for work helps significantly in
         | seperating your habits. I would imagine a bed office might do
         | the same, though obviously having health repercussions.
        
         | andybak wrote:
         | I have a perfectly good sleep routine. It's just that it
         | involves a laptop, a mobile phone, a tablet and occasionally a
         | VR headset.
        
         | alisonkisk wrote:
         | Why does cuddle get an exemption? Why shouldn't we have s
         | separate cuddle space so we can sleep soundly after?
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | Nitpick: "are related"..."may reduce"...these are links, not
         | causation.
         | 
         | I tested this myself and found A) my sleep did not get any
         | worse when I worked from bed and B) if anything, it got better,
         | especially during times of illness, because I was able to get
         | some important things done at the higher-energy highs and this
         | in turn helped me get better sleep later.
         | 
         | IMO the bed and laying down in general is a great place to do
         | mental activities including work tasks. I continue to get great
         | results from planning (incl. pseudocoding) while laying down.
         | 
         | Anecdata, but I'm noticing that a lot of people aren't testing
         | this themselves, just trusting somebody else's bell curve,
         | along which they may actually plot at any given point.
        
         | devilduck wrote:
         | All those references and that stuff still isn't true for
         | everyone. How can this be?
        
         | jjice wrote:
         | When I was in middle school (early 2010s), I can't tell you how
         | much time I spent on social media at night on my phone in bed.
         | I swear I must've gotten 4-5 hours of sleep on average.
         | Somewhere around my senior year of high school I started
         | placing my phone across the room instead of lying in bed with
         | it. Who would have guess that my sleep improved _drastically_.
         | I never go to bed with technology.
        
         | colmvp wrote:
         | > cuddles with your significant other
         | 
         | Not all of us, especially those living in endless lockdowns,
         | have the privilege of having an SO lol
        
         | gopalv wrote:
         | > As a rule of thumb, your bed should be dedicated to sleep
         | 
         | CGP Grey had a pretty good video about living in the lockdown
         | titled "Spaceship you".
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snAhsXyO3Ck
         | 
         | I'd say that a lot of work that isn't really work can be done
         | from bed, but it does mess up your training for "bed == sleep".
         | 
         | I used to work from bed before 2020, but the lockdown has made
         | the "walk downstairs to work, grab a coffee along the way" into
         | a natural thing rather than putting a number of other high
         | attention activities (shaving, driving) between being awake-
         | enough to sitting at my desk.
        
         | kaybe wrote:
         | Oohh look at these people with more than one room!
         | 
         | (Ok it's valid for those.. but I'm still feeling a bit salty.)
        
           | goblin89 wrote:
           | A recent problem for me: I have only one room to myself, and
           | prefer to keep work out of it. I am used to working outside
           | from cafes, esp. coffeeshops, rotating my surroundings little
           | by little. As of late, though, all relevant establishments
           | are shut down in the vicinity, which disrupts both my work
           | and sleep schedule.
           | 
           | Of course, I understand the need for such measures. Hopefully
           | I'll manage to continue consulting through this without
           | losing a customer.
        
           | Karawebnetwork wrote:
           | I believe that even working on a small desk next to your bed
           | would be better than working directly from the bed.
        
             | SulfurHexaFluri wrote:
             | Have been working from home from my bedroom for the last
             | year, got a small desk with a 27" monitor and a second hand
             | high end office chair. At the least its significantly
             | better ergonomics than using a laptop in bed. Downside is I
             | can't use my camera in calls since my background looks like
             | crap and usually has my bf sleeping behind me.
        
             | fastball wrote:
             | I really don't think we have enough evidence to backup this
             | assertion.
        
               | Karawebnetwork wrote:
               | We know that having a dedicated sleeping space
               | contributes to the quality of sleep, but there are no
               | studies on the size and boundaries required to create
               | that space.
               | 
               | Using the bed as a workspace means you're bringing your
               | work with you to bed. You completely erase any
               | possibility of separation between workspace and sleep
               | space.
               | 
               | With only one bedroom available, your only way to assign
               | a dedicated sleeping space is to use your bed to sleep
               | and a desk to work.
               | 
               | Throwing in some anecdotal opinion, I live in a studio
               | style open apartment and have no issue sleeping well in
               | my bed even if I can see my workspace. I however had
               | issues sleeping back when I lived in a smaller apartment
               | and used the bed as my main computer space.
               | 
               | Is it objectively better or worst? There's no study
               | backing either theories. However, I _believe_ that even
               | working on a small desk next to your bed would be better
               | than working directly from the bed. Otherwise you 'd be
               | effectively training yourself to think about work while
               | lying down in the comfort of your sleeping area, instead
               | of training yourself to fall asleep and relax.
        
               | fastball wrote:
               | As with most human behavior studies, I have yet to see a
               | sleep study that managed to satisfactorily demonstrate
               | causality in place of correlation.
               | 
               | I think all of this is overemphasizing how much we are
               | subconsciously "training" our bodies to do anything.
               | 
               | In this particular case, you could imagine that people
               | who work from their bed tend to be on screens in their
               | bed until just before bedtime, causing them to be more
               | "wired" than people who have a dedicated office space and
               | avoid screens in their bed entirely.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _Oohh look at these people with more than one room!_
           | 
           | I feel ya.
           | 
           | Back when I was running a one-man startup, I had myself, my
           | wife, and a cat in 450 square feet. Except when I was out
           | gladhanding potential clients, I worked from my bed.
           | 
           | At least back then, I could decamp for Starbucks if I got the
           | crazies. But today's studio apartment dwellers are really
           | screwed. Especially if you live somewhere hot, somewhere
           | cold, or a city that removed all of the public benches to
           | "combat" homelessness.
        
             | coldtea wrote:
             | > _I had myself, my wife, and a cat in 450 square feet_
             | 
             | So, like the average "family with 2 kids" size of house in
             | most of the world :-)
        
               | sjtindell wrote:
               | I'm picturing someone in a Hong Kong "apartment" cage
               | saying, "Wait you guys have whole rooms?"
        
         | mhh__ wrote:
         | What if my significant other is a copy of Misner, Thorne, and
         | Wheeler?
        
           | slowmovintarget wrote:
           | The gravitational time dilation from proximity to the book
           | does not work in your favor, better to leave it on the shelf
           | while you sleep.
        
             | ISL wrote:
             | The book helps -- clocks deeper in a gravitational
             | potential run slow relative to those higher in the
             | potential.
             | 
             | As I recall from Hartle, to paraphrase: "The
             | experimentalists in the basement live longer than the
             | theorists upstairs, but the view is worth it." My
             | recollection from the associated problem is that the
             | difference, over a lifetime, is microseconds.
             | 
             | MTW won't give even that much aid :). Good luck with your
             | studies; there's a lot to learn.
        
               | AnHonestComment wrote:
               | You have gravity right, but the impact reversed.
               | 
               | By being lower in the gravity well, you get _less_ sleep
               | than if your clock had run faster.
        
           | jedimastert wrote:
           | We can't change who or how we love
        
       | djohnston wrote:
       | I did this right out of college as a young and struggling
       | developer, and I had a lot of psychological issues with sleep and
       | depression that haven't resurfaced during this recent extended
       | work from home. There are a ton of differences in circumstance,
       | but I think doing my work in my living room office vs lying on my
       | bed is much better for my mind and my spine.
        
       | screye wrote:
       | Working for bedroom is already is nightmare. I can't imagine the
       | kind of destruction working-from-bed is capable of.
       | 
       | Strong physical separation between distinct aspects of life is
       | critical for me to get anything done. Covid has disrupted things
       | enough as it is.
        
       | eric_b wrote:
       | Working from bed is great? What? Who at the NYT thought this was
       | worth publishing?
       | 
       | This is a great way to increase mental health issues, decrease
       | physical health and hygiene and generally make everything worse.
       | 
       | Maybe in the future when morbidly obese humans float around in
       | hover beds and purchase things only from Buy-N-Large this will be
       | "great" - but this reeks of a strange "pro COVID lockdown"
       | narrative I've been seeing lately.
        
         | chapium wrote:
         | They don't have to write the way you want. Its easy to write
         | positively about tools one feels are beneficial.
        
         | TimTheTinker wrote:
         | > but this reeks of a strange "pro COVID lockdown" narrative
         | I've been seeing lately.
         | 
         | Along with phrases like "the new normal" and such. There does
         | seem to be a push to keep people from wanting and expecting to
         | go back to the _real_ normal anytime soon.
         | 
         | Though who stands to gain from this alternate reality? It would
         | seem the liberal left wants to normalize it (even post-
         | vaccine), but I don't understand why.
        
           | eric_b wrote:
           | Agreed - it's certainly a left-leaning narrative. I don't
           | understand the "why" of any of it anymore.
           | 
           | The far-left folks are pro lockdown but also want to help the
           | underprivileged. No one is hurt worse by lockdowns. They want
           | to defund the police, and yet by now even the hardened
           | ideologue can admit that less police is maybe not a great
           | plan. The left is anti-authoritarian but engages in almost
           | textbook authoritarian behavior. (Cancel culture, democratic
           | governors having emergency powers for 9+ months now etc etc)
           | They hate capitalism but enjoy the byproducts (my most
           | socialist friends can't get enough of Amazon prime - the
           | irony is completely lost on them).
           | 
           | There is just no way to reconcile the platform. It is
           | completely incoherent.
        
             | ksm1717 wrote:
             | Great rant, I liked how completely irrelevant it was
        
             | TimTheTinker wrote:
             | I've thought some more about this, and I think their
             | platform _is_ coherent if you assume their goal is power.
             | 
             | Economic trouble and poverty _help_ the left by making them
             | the savior upon whom everyone is dependent. After all, it
             | was the Great Depression that gave FDR's New Deal a free
             | pass in the first place -- and that really was the
             | beginning of the modern Democratic Party's economic
             | platform.
             | 
             | They _want_ people to be poor. That's how they get the
             | majority of their votes.
        
             | egypturnash wrote:
             | "pro-lockdown" and "why the fuck are we giving people so
             | little money" tend to go together, in my experience. Lock
             | down for a month or two, give everyone more than enough
             | money to cover rent/food/utilities and some entertainment
             | (to keep from going insane), and greatly reduce the spread
             | of this virus. But here we are in the US with a paltry $600
             | coming after the entire duration of this stupid, stupid
             | pandemic.
             | 
             | As to "defunding police", I like to rephrase it as "fund
             | people, not police" - use those budgets to give people help
             | _before_ they get to the point where the police get
             | involved, rather than having next to no safety net and a
             | bunch of cops itching to use all the military hardware they
             | 've got.
             | 
             | There you go, some coherence. Have a nice day.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | One of the only reasons I don't work from my bed is that it
         | would destroy my back. If I had purchased one of those beds
         | where you can electrically raise the back I would have worked
         | so many more hours - and been more comfortable.
        
         | Ashanmaril wrote:
         | There's an ever-growing cult of people who are so obsessed with
         | the idea that everyone needs to be shopping for a therapist and
         | popping mind-altering drugs, and anyone that suggests that
         | there are basic bad habits you could put some work in to fix
         | like exercising or not laying in bed all day is anti-"science"
         | 
         | The last paragraph basically claims "it's not working from bed
         | that's bad, it's the stigma against working from bed that's
         | bad!"
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | Personally I find that me staying in bed all day tends to be a
       | sign that I am either very cold, very depressed, or both. Even if
       | I manage to get shit done.
        
       | 0dmethz wrote:
       | This article kind of feels like people are working really hard to
       | rationalize working from bed?
       | 
       | Personally I just find it extremely uncomfortable, and I just
       | can't be productive that way. Plus you have to wonder what the
       | long term effects are, it doesn't seem very ergonomic.
        
         | trinix912 wrote:
         | I've tried it once and it just didn't feel right. It didn't
         | feel like I'm working, it felt more like staying in bed while
         | sick. Also, my back started hurting after a few hours. I can't
         | imagine someone doing it for more than a few days.
        
         | qwertox wrote:
         | I never understood people who have no issue with typing on a
         | laptop while sitting or laying in bed. Or outside on the grass.
         | It just doesn't work for me.
         | 
         | I need a keyboard on a table and sit in a chair in front of it,
         | or stand in front of it if it is height-adjustable.
         | 
         | I need space to put things nearby, like a glass of water,
         | without having to care if it will fall and spill.
         | 
         | But I'm ok with having a tablet in bed to browse HN or Reddit
         | or listen to something on YouTube until I fall asleep.
        
       | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | eljimmy wrote:
       | I couldn't bring myself to work from bed. More due to the mental
       | separation of being "at work" vs at home. I find it's beneficial
       | for me to have an exclusive area otherwise I'll mentally feel
       | like I'm always working.
        
       | twobitshifter wrote:
       | As a teen, 20 years ago, I always did my homework from my bed, as
       | that was about all I had. I don't think that it challenged me in
       | any way and it may have enhanced my thought processes as they
       | article notes. Certain postures are said to influence the way you
       | process and think.
       | 
       | For example, I definitely read books from bed, as I'm sure others
       | do as well, even those that object to television or working from
       | bed. Thinking about it now, lying down may help to displace my
       | mind to the story more than sitting.
        
       | kashyapc wrote:
       | You can kiss goodbye to your quality of life if you "work from
       | bed". As Matthew Walker, of "Why We Sleep"[+], reminds: you want
       | your brain to associate your bed with _sleeping_.
       | 
       | A related point is that if you're not feeling sleepy, don't lay
       | around in the bed waiting for sleep (go to a different area of
       | the room, if possible)--just as how we don't (?) sit around at
       | the dinner table waiting for hunger to arrive.
       | 
       | [+] With warts and all, like any book. Don't let the so-called
       | "egregious errors" pointed out by some guy online distract from
       | the main points made in the book.
        
         | phreack wrote:
         | Going a bit further, if at all possible, my tip from many years
         | of remote work is don't even have a computer in the room you
         | sleep in. It's amazing how much the brain correlates rooms with
         | tasks, and if you work in your bedroom you will have a worse
         | quality of sleep.
        
           | kashyapc wrote:
           | Going to a different room may not be possible for everyone.
           | We have to consider those who live in studio apartments and
           | other kinds of smaller places. But your broader point stands
           | --a decent enough separation between bed and work is
           | critical.
           | 
           | And take advantage of human nature: we're creatures of habit;
           | build solid routines for compounding benefits.
        
       | wasdfff wrote:
       | Speaking as someone who goes from bed to couch to bed during this
       | pandemic due to a lack of desk space in my crampt apartment, I
       | would murder someone if it meant I could claim their chair and
       | desk and have actual lumbar support again.
        
         | derekp7 wrote:
         | Have you considered (or able to install) an adult loft bed so
         | you can put an office underneath?
        
         | jolmg wrote:
         | There are sit-up pillows[1] that can provide this support, if
         | you're interested. Personally speaking, I think lumbar support
         | from my sit-up pillow is better than that of my office chair at
         | work. YMMV. You may want to look for one that's of a good size
         | and firm. Not all are.
         | 
         | [1] https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=sit-
         | up+pillow&iax=images&ia...
        
         | tzs wrote:
         | Have you considered the floor? When I was young (late teens to
         | early 30s) I found that laying on the carpeted floor on my
         | stomach, with a pillow under my chest, and my head tilted back
         | (think of Superman flying and you'll get the picture) with my
         | computer in front of me worked great.
         | 
         | This probably wouldn't work out well nowadays with a desktop
         | computer because desktop monitor sizes are usually way bigger
         | than they were back then so you would have tilt your head too
         | far, but it might still be fine with a laptop.
        
           | soared wrote:
           | I sit on my floor, back up against the wall/bed, for like 6
           | hours a day. Big fan.
        
         | tartoran wrote:
         | Lumbar support is a false friend. I used to rely on this until
         | I learned proper posture and did exercises to strenghten and
         | relearn to use skeletal musculature correctly. I need not rest
         | my back on anything now and my general health couldn't be
         | better.
         | 
         | Unless you had a recent surgery and the body is weakened or you
         | have a serious condition (torn discs, etc) I'd advise to try to
         | ditch all these crutches which end up weakening us up in the
         | long term. However, I admit they could be very useful and help
         | with back pain. I used to not be able to concentrate because of
         | backpain and lumbar support did help at the time.
        
           | fastball wrote:
           | Link?
        
       | sfteus wrote:
       | I've been WFH for nearly 6 years now. The one constant I've found
       | that hampers my productivity is working from a "shared" space.
       | Working out of a space like the living room or bed room, where
       | you would normally relax, tends to make me slack off, get
       | distracted easily, etc.
       | 
       | I have noticed though that your work space doesn't need to be
       | fully dedicated though, it just needs to not be a leisure room.
       | We adopted a Belgian Mal mix in February that needed supervision
       | throughout the day, so I transitioned from my office to my dining
       | room. We don't use that outside of the occasional game night or
       | other gathering, and the table makes a nice makeshift desk with a
       | laptop. I found working from there comparable to working from my
       | office.
        
       | ShaneMcGowan wrote:
       | R.I.P the author's back
        
       | wtf_is_up wrote:
       | Wow, NYT will publish anything.
        
       | vladmk wrote:
       | Waiting for the working from your toilet piece to come out
        
       | mikestew wrote:
       | I did it on the rare snow day in Seattle a few times. I'm not one
       | to be particular about my workspace, but what few things I _am_
       | particular about went out the window in bed. It's fun for an
       | occasional break, but not for productive output. But TFA is rife
       | with counterexamples, so what do I know versus Marcel Proust?
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | Every time I end up working from bed I'm angry within 30
         | minutes about typing experience - and that's assuming I
         | remembered to grab trackball to not be angry at touchpad
         | experience!
         | 
         | Seriously, f*ck bed work :|
        
       | combatentropy wrote:
       | I sit up in bed against a backrest pillow, with my laptop in my
       | lap. I don't have a mouse. I program with vim and use keyboard
       | shortcuts in other apps as much as possible.
       | 
       | I have been doing this for years. I don't have problems with my
       | back or wrists like I did years ago in an office, even though I
       | had an office chair, desk, and keyboard drawer.
        
       | nickelcitymario wrote:
       | I've wanted to work full-time from home for as long as I can
       | remember. It took about a month in lockdown for me to realize I
       | hated it.
       | 
       | Turns out, my mental health is much better when I have an office
       | to go to. 1h20 in commute (round-trip), no privacy, tons of
       | distractions, and still I'm happier when I get to leave the house
       | to go to work.
       | 
       | I suspect it's mostly just a matter of getting out of the house.
       | Those 4 walls get pretty oppressive after a while.
       | 
       | I, too, found myself working from bed. It was not an improvement,
       | and ended up being the last step towards a crippling depression
       | that wouldn't let me get out of bed in the first place.
       | 
       | So, for me at least, working from bed is awful. Ergonomically,
       | emotionally, spiritually just f---ing draining.
        
         | xwdv wrote:
         | I have noticed that most people that say this tend to just have
         | shitty homes. Not every home is suitable for working from, you
         | really need all sorts of amenities and plenty of space to walk
         | around and refocus, and a good outdoor area. If you literally
         | just have 600 sqft of bedroom, living room and kitchen then yea
         | I can see why going to the office would be better.
        
           | silicon2401 wrote:
           | Another thing I've noticed is that the people who are anti-
           | wfh seem to do better with externally-imposed structure
           | rather than internally-imposed. I can't relate at all to
           | people who say their sleep schedule is ruined, their work and
           | personal life blends together, etc. I wfh lately and my work
           | day is a hard 9 to 5 unless something out of the ordinary's
           | going on, I get 8 hours, work out most days, stick to my
           | diet, etc. The less external constraints I have, the more I
           | can create a routine that's perfectly suited to myself.
        
           | nickelcitymario wrote:
           | > shitty homes
           | 
           | I mean, that's a bit disparaging. I've seen some beautiful
           | 600 sqft apartments.
           | 
           | But to your general point, I agree. I just don't think a
           | space needs to be shitty in order to be inappropriate for
           | daily work. If its small or the area lacks food outdoor
           | amenities, it's easy to get cabin fever.
        
         | hluska wrote:
         | Hey pal, if your mental health is struggling, my email is in my
         | profile. Feel free to reach out - I'm no picture of perfect
         | mental health so can't judge and besides, I don't know you from
         | a hole in the ground! You can tell me just about anything and
         | who cares??? :)
         | 
         | If you're doing better great, if not, strangers can be a
         | tremendous help.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | Everybody's different. I've been wfh since the pandemic
         | started, and it's been one of the best times of my life. Even
         | in school I didn't have the bliss of never having to leave my
         | home. My health, exercise routine, diet, sleep routine, work
         | productivity, social life, personal productivity, quality of
         | life in pretty much every aspect have basically all been
         | perfect. Even outside, people keep a little more distance.
         | Aside from the coronavirus danger itself, the past 10-ish
         | months have been a dream for me.
         | 
         | Unfortunately there is no compromise that can please everyone
         | if things return to how they were before, just finding an
         | employer that caters to one's personal preference.
        
           | SulfurHexaFluri wrote:
           | >Unfortunately there is no compromise that can please
           | everyone
           | 
           | We have started working Thursdays and Fridays in the office
           | and the rest at home. Its nice to get out and do something
           | different and still have all the time savings and time to
           | think at home most of the week. It does still require you to
           | live close to the office though.
        
         | andreilys wrote:
         | WFH during a pandemic is different than WFH when everything
         | isn't locked down.
         | 
         | I'd encourage you to avoid conflating the two as the experience
         | is vastly different.
        
           | rorykoehler wrote:
           | I've been working from home on and off for going on 15 years
           | now and he lockdown has been terrible for WFH. No popping out
           | to a cafe for a couple hours. Or my local coworking space
           | etc. The monotony of it is draining.
        
             | proverbialbunny wrote:
             | That mirrors my experience. Before shelter in place I'd go
             | to a cafe about 2-3 hours every other day in the morning.
             | Technically, I'd rotate between a cafe and a breakfast
             | place close by that was always abandoned and they had an
             | espresso machine. It was my own secret cafe.
        
         | creddit wrote:
         | This resonates deeply with me.
        
         | trinix912 wrote:
         | > Turns out, my mental health is much better when I have an
         | office to go to. 1h20 in commute (round-trip), no privacy, tons
         | of distractions, and still I'm happier when I get to leave the
         | house to go to work.
         | 
         | This is very important to me. It helps me forget about work
         | when heading home and vice versa. I also like talking to people
         | in person at the office more than relying on Zoom watercooler
         | rooms.
        
           | nickelcitymario wrote:
           | That commute turns out to be one of my favourite parts of the
           | day.
           | 
           | In the mornings, I leave early to workout at the company gym.
           | (Not true at the moment, because all gyms are closed in my
           | area right now.) That commute gives me time to wake up and
           | get into the gym mindset.
           | 
           | After work, it gives me time to unwind, let go of the stress
           | for the day, and get into my dad-of-4 mindset.
           | 
           | Without it, everything blends together. My work days would
           | never really start and never really end.
        
         | andybak wrote:
         | And I've found the opposite. I'm genuinely not being
         | antagonistic - I just think it's important to get a diversity
         | of voices out there on this topic lest people feel that there's
         | only one "truth".
        
           | youerbt wrote:
           | It's also worth pointing out that working from home not
           | equals working from home during lockdown.
        
           | nickelcitymario wrote:
           | 100%. If I have a central point it's that no one way of
           | working is right for everyone.
           | 
           | Case in point: My partner works from home, has for years, and
           | has no interest in working from an office. It's worth noting,
           | however, that she also prefers it when I leave every day.
           | (Read into that what you will.)
        
         | stetrain wrote:
         | I think this is definitely exacerbated by the general lockdown
         | situation on top of just working from home.
         | 
         | Previously I worked from home a couple of days per week. I
         | augmented those days by walking to a nearby coffee place in the
         | morning to get out of the house and get some movement in.
         | 
         | I'd also try to meet someone for lunch when schedules worked
         | out.
         | 
         | This year many of us combined working from home with a
         | restriction on all of those "safety valves" and in-person
         | socialization in general.
         | 
         | Personally I think I was happiest with the part-time flexible
         | work from home setup, but I think I could make full time work
         | if I moved to an area with more walking-distance amenities.
        
           | nickelcitymario wrote:
           | > Previously I worked from home a couple of days per week.
           | 
           | That's very different from working from home every day. If it
           | was an option, I'd love to work from home twice a week and
           | from the office the other 3. That would be a nice balance.
           | 
           | > This year many of us combined working from home with a
           | restriction on all of those "safety valves" and in-person
           | socialization in general.
           | 
           | Definitely an interesting question. Would I have enjoyed
           | working from home if I could still go out and socialize every
           | day? Impossible to say but I'd love to find out some day.
        
           | npsimons wrote:
           | > I think this is definitely exacerbated by the general
           | lockdown situation on top of just working from home.
           | 
           | Yeah, people need to realize, this is _not_ normal. Even I,
           | as a highly distractable /sensitive introvert have had
           | trouble coping. And I won't lie, the bicycle commute to work
           | was great for waking me up and energizing me.
           | 
           | That said, I would prefer 100% WFH for the remainder of my
           | career, no contest. There's just no getting around the level
           | of control I have over everything from noise, to light,
           | temperature, etc. It helps that I live alone and have a
           | dedicated separate home office. And I can always go for a
           | run, walk, or bicycle ride in place of the commute.
        
         | gilbetron wrote:
         | Well, you aren't _just_ WFH full time, but WFH full time in a
         | pandemic. WFH is much different when you can set up lunches
         | with friends, work from cafes /restaurants/parks from time to
         | time, and actually have face-to-face connections with people
         | easily.
        
           | nickelcitymario wrote:
           | You're absolutely right. I look forward to getting the chance
           | to try it out under better circumstances.
        
         | SkyPuncher wrote:
         | > I suspect it's mostly just a matter of getting out of the
         | house. Those 4 walls get pretty oppressive after a while.
         | 
         | They can be.
         | 
         | I'm fortunate to have enough space in my house that I can silo
         | the different areas of the house. I have a few places I'm happy
         | to work in, but I also have a basement that I never do work in.
        
         | brightball wrote:
         | It definitely takes getting used to. I've been exclusively WFH
         | for 8 years now and it's hard to imagine going back at this
         | point, but it took a while to develop that groove.
         | 
         | My first job out of college, my boss actually told me "Don't
         | miss meetings, don't miss deadlines and I don't care when
         | you're here." About 3 weeks in I was dying to go to the office
         | and just stayed there all the time.
         | 
         | In order to make WFH work for me now a few things had to fall
         | into place:
         | 
         | 1. My wife got so busy with her business that she has no free
         | time to deal with anything at the house during the day, so any
         | random person that needs to come by (contractors, cable repair,
         | etc) I'm already here for. Additionally, most days I can use my
         | lunch break for any errands that need to be run without it
         | interfering with my after work hours.
         | 
         | 2. I have 2 dogs that keep me company.
         | 
         | 3. I've found other friends of mine who work from home or are
         | up for grabbing lunch in the area. I tend to meet somebody out
         | for lunch at least once a week.
         | 
         | 4. I keep a TV on in the background, out of sight (usually the
         | weather channel). I don't know why, but it makes the house feel
         | less empty all day.
         | 
         | 5. Facebook and some relevant community message boards (Clemson
         | sports, local programmers Slack). Just need some type of social
         | outlet.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | >I keep a TV on in the background, out of sight (usually the
           | weather channel). I don't know why, but it makes the house
           | feel less empty all day.
           | 
           | I think the world is split into people who really need a
           | background soundtrack of some sort and those who hate it.
           | 
           | Back when I sometimes had a roommate on group (non-work)
           | trips, one of the things that drove me craziest was someone
           | who just _had_ to turn on the TV as soon as they walked into
           | a room.
           | 
           | The funny thing is that I'm pretty much fine with ambient
           | people sound. I just don't like background TV and, for the
           | most part, I don't even turn on music when I'm working.
        
             | brightball wrote:
             | The key for me is noise that I'm not trying to listen to.
             | The weather channel can be on and I have no need to try to
             | focus on it.
             | 
             | If I put music on, it needs to be pretty consistent tempo
             | with no words so that it's "there" but I'm not listening to
             | it. The original Ironman soundtrack was my goto for this
             | for years.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Yeah, for something like sleeping on a plane, I'll
               | usually put something like new age-y instrumentals on. I
               | just can't really ignore something even as uninteresting
               | as The Weather Channel. It's like fingernails on a
               | blackboard to me.
        
             | dinkleberg wrote:
             | I dream that one day I'll be able to turn my ears on and
             | off at will. Earplugs work alright, but complete silence
             | would be fantastic (personal safety be damned)
        
               | SulfurHexaFluri wrote:
               | >personal safety be damned
               | 
               | Apple is working on fixing that. There is a setting on
               | ios 14 that can alert you when it hears things like a
               | fire alarm, dogs barking, people yelling, etc.
        
               | ISL wrote:
               | When you get old-enough, a cochlear implant is exactly
               | that.
        
               | nickelcitymario wrote:
               | I haven't tried them yet, but to my understanding this is
               | a key selling feature of AirPods.
               | 
               | Any chance anyone knows how successful these are at noise
               | cancellation (without the use of music to drown out said
               | noise)?
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | All noise cancellation is much better at canceling low
               | frequency noise (like the engine on a plane) than voices,
               | for example, which it mostly just muffles. For example, I
               | have music playing in my house right now. If I put in my
               | AirPod Pros and turn them on, the music gets quieter but
               | I can still clearly hear it.
        
               | SulfurHexaFluri wrote:
               | I find that on my over ear headphones, the physical
               | barrier of the headphones blocks out a lot of higher
               | sounds to some amount and the anc kills the low sounds. I
               | can still hear stuff while I'm not playing sound but when
               | I turn on music I can't hear anything around me.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Yes. Closed back over ears are definitely the most
               | effective way to block external noise. And I've heard of
               | people wearing over the ear protection over noise
               | canceling that works even better. For me, basically the
               | only time I really care (or want to be that isolated) is
               | on planes though and I travel really light so over the
               | ear headphones is a non-starter.
        
         | tolbish wrote:
         | Your post sounds more like an endorsement of walkable
         | communities and dog ownership than an endorsement of commuting.
        
           | nickelcitymario wrote:
           | I didn't consider that I was endorsing commuting. Point well
           | taken.
           | 
           | If I had a nice weather-protected path to walk to work (like
           | the underground networks in some major cities), walking would
           | be far preferable to driving.
           | 
           | My argument, nay, my observation, is that some type of
           | transition between work and home appears to be vital to my
           | well-being. I suspect that the time component for that
           | transition is just as important.
           | 
           | For example: What if I built an office in my garage? That
           | would give me a physically different space, but I'd be
           | deprived of that transition time to switch mindsets.
           | 
           | What I don't know is how much time is needed for the same
           | effect. Would a 5 minute walk suffice? Could it be even
           | better? Who knows?
        
             | aleksei wrote:
             | Many people have had the same experience over the past
             | year. There's three things that are usually suggested which
             | might help you, that you've touched upon.
             | 
             | First, you should have a dedicated work space. A room is
             | preferable, but you can make do by erecting sight barriers
             | to your desk for example. The main idea is to make it easy
             | to leave your work 'at work' and not be reminded of it in
             | your free time.
             | 
             | Second, clothing. If you feel your day lacks structure make
             | sure you're not lounging about in a tracksuit all day. Put
             | on clothes you would wear to the office before work, and
             | take them off at the end of your day. Wear shoes.
             | 
             | Third, take a walk before starting work and afterwards. A
             | 20 minute walk will allow you to plan the day ahead and get
             | in work mode, and will let you unpack the day and unwind
             | after work. Ignore the rain.
             | 
             | So basically, make going to work a ritual (as foolish or
             | unlikely to work as it may sound). You should also minimise
             | distractions and control impulses to do non-work related
             | things while 'at work'. If you can, consider getting out of
             | the house for lunch or eat at your desk and not at the
             | dinner table. Lastly, take part or try to instigate remote
             | water cooler chats with colleagues to keep sane.
        
               | mrkstu wrote:
               | Good tips. I'm lucky enough to have a great room
               | available for an office.
               | 
               | I curtained the doorway off, to remind the rest of the
               | family (and myself) that when it is closed, I'm at work.
               | Put a standing desk in, to help maintain my health.
               | 
               | I still shower and show up 'at work' around the same
               | times I did before. At first I was there around the same
               | time I'd leave for work, but I found I was not able to
               | concentrate productively for 12-13 hours a day, so I've
               | cut it closer to an 8-6 schedule, with some breaks to eat
               | with family or drop kids off where they may need to go.
               | 
               | Take advantage of the greater flexibility- take the good
               | with the bad. Was listening to Phish on the surround
               | sound speakers connected to my receiver via bluetooth to
               | my Mac Mini the other day, while working on my desktop
               | I'd brought home attached to a nice big bright 4k monitor
               | that I have at home, and connected via SD-WAN to the
               | corporate network. Was a pretty productive and glorious
               | way to get a lot of work done.
        
               | nickelcitymario wrote:
               | Great tips! I particularly like the idea of creating a
               | ritual. I think you've nailed it on the head with that
               | one.
        
         | wpm wrote:
         | Yeah working from home full time for me is like cheating on a
         | diet. It sounds great at first, and for a few weeks you eat
         | whatever you want and you don't notice much change.
         | 
         | Then all your clothes stop fitting.
         | 
         | Working from bed is like eating ice cream for breakfast. Sounds
         | great, nice maybe once as a treat, then becomes horrible.
         | 
         | I need structure, routine, and not having to go into work makes
         | enforcing that routine so much harder.
        
           | nickelcitymario wrote:
           | 100% agreement
        
           | devilduck wrote:
           | If I never have to go back into an office routine again, my
           | life will be much, much better for it. To each their own.
        
           | jrockway wrote:
           | I think you have to make a routine, rather than hoping one is
           | provided for you. I am not a routine person, but for me
           | showering, opening up Slack, and switching Chrome profiles is
           | how I transition from "home" to "work". I don't do "home"
           | things during work hours, and I don't do "work" things during
           | "home" hours. Even though I'm at the same desk. For me, it
           | works as well as commuting did, without 30 minutes of being
           | frustrated at the subway.
           | 
           | (I admit that I do do some "home" things at work, like
           | laundry. That mostly involves turning on the machine and
           | tending to it in an hour, so not a big time commitment but
           | nice to get done during the day.)
        
       | jkire wrote:
       | The main thing I found interesting about this is the idea of
       | trying to break the taboo of working from bed, _especially_ for
       | those who have a disability that make it hard /impossible to get
       | out of bed some days. After all, this is the reality for a lot of
       | people long before the pandemic. Yes, fine, maybe it's bad for
       | your back or sleep schedule (I personally _hate_ even reading in
       | bed), but it 's up to the individual to figure out what works for
       | them.
       | 
       | I really hope that one thing we get from this pandemic is not
       | just that remote work is more accepted, but that there's more
       | understanding and flexibility over people's individual situations
       | (without them having to try and justify themselves). This would
       | help so many people, whether they're disabled, or juggling
       | childcare, or whatever.
        
       | lazyant wrote:
       | See also dysania / clinomania.
        
       | Tycho wrote:
       | Maybe someone will come up with an app that you use before you go
       | to sleep and it trains/primes your mind to work on pieces of work
       | (ones that require creativity or insight) while you sleep. And
       | then corporations will adopt it and offer employees a pay rise if
       | they sign up to use it. Eventually it will become mandatory, and
       | people will write wistful articles about the uncolonized dream
       | spaces of yesteryear, while accepting that no normal person would
       | sacrifice the most productive part of the working day (night) in
       | order to dream about fun things that they will mostly forget
       | anyway.
        
         | helen___keller wrote:
         | I did something like this (unintentionally) in college by
         | working until I passed out on the floor, then working more the
         | moment I wake up (generally to hit a morning deadline)
         | 
         | It's not great* for problem solving, but it is a wonderful
         | recipe for depression.
         | 
         | * Actually, I frequently solved problems that I was stuck on
         | immediately after waking up. However, I am convinced I would
         | have solved these problems had I not been so sleep deprived in
         | the first place.
        
       | lhorie wrote:
       | I think it's worth noting that the examples in the article about
       | people like Frida Kahlo involve a higher degree of creativity
       | than most desk jobs demand, and one could reasonably attribute
       | bursts of inspiration to come from the "unusual" aspect of
       | working in a horizontal body position (similar to how people
       | often say they think up ideas more clearly when going on walks)
       | 
       | But laying down for extended periods of time is known to cause
       | health problems. In hospitals, bed sores are a well known problem
       | associated with excessive in-bed time. Muscular atrophy is
       | another.
       | 
       | It's kinda crazy how just a couple years ago there was a standing
       | desk craze touting the miraculous benefits to muscular/skeletal
       | health, and now we've got a 180 degree turn with a major
       | publication putting out a claim that laying down for extensive
       | amounts of time is somehow a good idea (never mind the whole
       | "sitting is the new smoking" thing!)
       | 
       | Geez!
        
       | pmiller2 wrote:
       | For those who don't want to sign up with NYTimes.com:
       | https://archive.is/3AZmg
        
       | Consultant32452 wrote:
       | This is deliciously tone deaf on the part of NYT. People are
       | dying all over the place, the meager wealth and incomes of
       | working class people are being destroyed, even unemployment
       | benefits are completely dysfunctional in many states. Maybe it's
       | not the best time to talk about how great it is to be able to
       | maintain your income without even having to leave bed.
        
       | timdaub wrote:
       | > Working from Bed is Great
       | 
       | Article goes on to say that anecdotal evidence from people that
       | work in bed since COVID-19 pandemic are doing fine.
       | 
       | What I can say myself about this is that since I've started
       | working full-time from home in 2018, there were many "great"
       | things I started doing during work. It was a bit like finally
       | having the chance to be "free" and working how I wanted - and not
       | my employer.
       | 
       | Three years later I'm now convinced that there's reasons why
       | people go to offices and why there's certain rules in those.
       | 
       | Anyways, technically speaking "I'm not working from home
       | anymore". I rented out an office space. It's as comfy as home
       | (still, there's no bed). But having a dedicated space to work and
       | face challenges is great, because afterwise I can drive home -
       | and when I'm exhausted, fall into my bed.
        
         | alisonkisk wrote:
         | NYT "lifestyle" articles are (usually young) writers on
         | deadline filling space with apps from their friends.
        
       | amyjess wrote:
       | I have absolutely taken conference calls in bed, especially when
       | it's really cold in the morning. I can just snuggle up under the
       | covers and stay warm while discussing project status.
        
       | nevinera wrote:
       | Ergonomically speaking, it _can_ be, but that requires some
       | tooling and experimentation. I have put together a setup that
       | works pretty well, but I rarely use it because extricating myself
       | from it takes too much work.
       | 
       | The pictures in the article do _not_ demonstrate a viable way to
       | work from bed for long periods (though shifting positions
       | frequently enough can offset the postural problems quite a bit).
        
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