[HN Gopher] Meals based on vegetable protein sources (beans and ...
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Meals based on vegetable protein sources (beans and peas) are more
satiating (2016)
Author : doener
Score : 80 points
Date : 2021-01-02 13:07 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
| bagacrap wrote:
| This seems entirely expected and in line with previous research
| and understanding of nutrition because the animal protein meals
| had lower fiber. A less sensationalist way to phrase this would
| be "high fiber meals are more satiating when controlling for
| macronutrient content."
| colsandurz wrote:
| Can anyone link to some recipes that feature plant based protein?
| Here's a few my wife and I really like:
|
| https://food52.com/recipes/30932-heidi-swanson-s-pan-fried-g...
|
| https://www.rickbayless.com/recipe/cowboy-beans/
|
| https://www.ranchogordo.com/blogs/recipes/spicy-baked-royal-...
| Dowwie wrote:
| Tempeh is a great source of protein and easy enough for many
| people to make at home. You can add it as a source of protein to
| a wide range of dishes with surprising results. It's even good
| when cubed and added to spaghetti marinara as a meatball
| substitute.
| xmaaayyy wrote:
| Warning to all; if this is your first time eating something soy
| based, I'd go for tofu or TVP before tempeh.
|
| Tempeh is fermented so it can be a bit strong, where tofu and
| TVP are still high in protein but take on other flavours more
| easily.
| Dowwie wrote:
| That's like, your opinion-- xmaaaayyy. :) Tempeh isn't that
| bold a move. It depends on how it's made, really. Maybe the
| stuff you've had is strong. We quality control here by making
| it from scratch.
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Slice it kind of thin, marinate in soy sauce, maple syrup and a
| dash of smoked paprika for a couple of hours (at least). Bake
| it for 20 minutes in the oven. Tasty.
| estaseuropano wrote:
| Tofu slices soaked in a few spoons of soy sauce and a few
| drops of liquid smoke, then fried in olive oil until crunchy.
| Delicious bacon that my non-veggie family all prefer over
| real bacon.
| Melting_Harps wrote:
| Can anyone provide a scihub link, I'd really like to read this as
| a friend and I had a through discussion about this very topic.
|
| Thanks!
| nairboon wrote:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5073301/pdf/FNR...
| creamynebula wrote:
| https://sci-hub.se/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27765144/
| reddotX wrote:
| why not both? beans + meat
| jtdev wrote:
| Being satiated <> being properly nourished.
| xmaaayyy wrote:
| And you get just as much if not more nutrients from plant based
| meals?
| jtdev wrote:
| Plant based diets are well known to be deficient in numerous
| essential nutrients.
| La1n wrote:
| The average US diet is deficient in numerous essential
| nutrients. You can eat healthy on a plant based diet or
| omni diet, but just adding or removing animal products is
| still not going to make an unhealthy diet healthy.
| bitexploder wrote:
| Mostly amino acids. There are simple rules to follow to
| ensure you get complete nutrition and amino acid profiles.
| Otherwise what nutrients are you really missing?
| jtdev wrote:
| Just things like Choline, but feel free to starve your
| brain (literally and figuratively) if you really want to:
| https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/19082918414
| 3.h...
| [deleted]
| KittenInABox wrote:
| That link doesn't really have anything to do with whether
| or not vegan/vegetarian diets are missing choline. It's
| that the UK nutritional chart doesn't track choline at
| all. It has nothing to do with diet. I was super confused
| at how this paper had anything to do with the
| conversation except to say choline exists and is
| important. Afterwards I googled and choline isn't
| exclusive to meat sources so I'm still confused what
| vegetarian/vegan diets and choline deficiency have to do
| with each other- very common vegan/vegetarian foods are
| high in choline like brocoli, peas, chickpeas, various
| legumes, etc.
|
| Could you cite studies that correlate vegetarian/vegan
| diets with deficiencies in nutrition?
| jtdev wrote:
| From the linked article:
|
| "The primary sources of dietary choline are found in
| beef, eggs, dairy products, fish, and chicken, with much
| lower levels found in nuts, beans, and cruciferous
| vegetables, such as broccoli.
|
| In 1998, recognising the importance of choline, the US
| Institute of Medicine recommended minimum daily intakes.
| These range from 425 mg/day for women to 550 mg/day for
| men, and 450 mg/day and 550 mg/day for pregnant and
| breastfeeding women, respectively, because of the
| critical role the nutrient has in fetal development.
|
| In 2016, the European Food Safety Authority published
| similar daily requirements.
|
| ...
|
| 'This is....concerning given that current trends appear
| to be towards meat reduction and plant-based diets," says
| Dr Derbyshire.'"
|
| Is something unclear about this?
| KittenInABox wrote:
| Sorry, most of the article appeared to be about that UK
| isn't releasing daily choline requirements so I was a
| little confused. It also doesn't say whether or not
| there's actual evidence that choline deficiency due to a
| vegetarian diet exists, much less is linked to something?
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| The majority of your comments on HN are downvoted because they
| are all one-liner negative quips.
|
| Is there a reason you take your anger out on HN? Have you
| considered the zen of a plant-based diet?
| jtdev wrote:
| Not trying to be negative, just trying to encourage critical
| dialogue. If you're happy eating a plant based diet, I'm 100%
| supportive of your decision to live that way.
| solinent wrote:
| I think it's related to the fermentation going on in your
| stomach. I'm not sure if it's the best way to become satiated.
|
| I personally find saturated fats to be much more satiating, I can
| go without food for a full day without feeling hungry if I eat
| enough.
| papandada wrote:
| Fermentation happens in the gut where all the bacteria is,
| right? Does fullness in the gut translate to feeling full?
| solinent wrote:
| I should have said gut--I've been calling my gut my stomach
| for too long and have had difficulty stopping that habit.
|
| However, I don't think we really know where satiety comes
| from yet, that's why we have all of this research on the
| topic still. There are a few different theories, but I
| wouldn't call them proven.
|
| It may not be a sensation related to some measure of the
| volume of matter in your gut. I think it's also related to
| gut microfauna such as lactobacilla, and appetite is
| definitely related to the brain as well through the gut, so
| it probably gets pretty complicated and possibly is very
| individualized. I'm no expert, but I do read a lot about
| these topics.
| fbelzile wrote:
| I also agree with fats being the most satiating for me. For a
| second, I missed the part where they controlled for it, but
| it's there:
|
| > _The meals (all 3.5 MJ, 28 energy-% (E%) fat)..._
| xmaaayyy wrote:
| Then add some high fat foods to the veggie meals. Nuts,
| avocado, etc are all super nutritious and fatty.
| tyleo wrote:
| This is interesting and clashes with my personal experience. I
| eat two vegetarian meals a day which usually include beans, eggs,
| or oats. In my experience meat is considerably more satiating
| than meals with beans or eggs but less satiating than the meals
| with oats.
| nmfisher wrote:
| Yeah, this clashes with my experience too.
|
| I experimented with vegetarian meals a few months back and
| found I could eat literally 1kg+ of cooked lentils/beans/etc
| and still feel hungry. <500g of chicken breast (plus
| vegetables), on the other hand, would see me through.
| bartread wrote:
| Mine too, with caveats. A steak + veggies and I'm satiated
| and alert for hours. Similar calorie content with beans or
| other vegetable sources and I'm hungrier sooner and often
| feel sluggish/de-energised. I also don't particularly enjoy
| the increased mass and volume of food I need to eat if I
| exclude meat from my diet.
|
| Still, I think there's an element of balance here. If I eat
| beef too many days on the trot I don't end up feeling so
| great either. The key thing is to keep it mixed up with a
| good variety of veggies, meat, and carbs[0].
|
| _[0] I will say that overly processed carbs like pasta,
| pizza base, etc., and even things like rice tend to leave me
| hungry, sluggish and irritable if I have too much of them.
| Potatoes seem to cause fewer issues._
| estaseuropano wrote:
| When I became vegetarian I was 'hungry'.l in the way you
| describe for about 1-2 weeks, after that the issue
| disappeared and a plate of beans is very satisfying and keeps
| my stomach happy for a long period.
|
| I would guess this is a lot about habituation/expectations
| and less about whether the food is meat/milk
| product/soy/grains. Therefore also some caution about the
| study: eating an unfamiliar food a few times might leave a
| very different effect than something the body is used to.
| clairity wrote:
| that matches my experience as well. whenever i've actively
| changed my diet (to small meals or low-carb, not
| necessarily vegetarian), it takes ~10 days for the body to
| re-habituate and settle on the new norm.
| watwut wrote:
| What is long period? Because plate of beans keep me full
| longer then non-beans vegetarian food. But meat based plate
| keeps me full even longer.
|
| I don't think beans are unfamiliar for most people. We do
| eat them regularly. But, they don't make us as full as
| meat.
| Melting_Harps wrote:
| > Yeah, this clashes with my experience too.
|
| Ultimately, as with all biological systems, its hard to make
| absolute assertions of the most optimal diet (the sample size
| in this trial is n=43 which is pretty small when you consider
| the variation in peoples gut biomes due to genetics and
| lifestyle) be it full carnivore to the strictest form of
| veganism, there will always be people who can perform on
| these diets. But most people fall within the averages, and
| thus personal experimentation is required to adjust and
| refine for one's own use.
|
| I worked at a highly acclaimed Vegan and Vegetarian farm to
| table, and for the life of me I couldn't even get my body to
| adjust to eating seitan or tempeh as a main source of
| protein. I'd eat tons of salads with qunioa and legumes and
| still feel fatigued all day and I drank tons of kombucha to
| try and make the most use of the additional fiber. Ultimately
| I gave up after 2 weeks and just ended up bringing in my own
| grass fed beef and cooking it in tallow or goose fat after
| service with all the veg sauted in the pan as sides and felt
| way better. I had a horrible mental fog and dull headache the
| entire time, my body felt sluggish and I felt like I was not
| sleeping well for those 2 weeks and I don't think I'd cope
| with that for very long as I have a hard time keeping my
| weight up as it is.
|
| After spending the better part of decade on matters related
| to diet and longer if I include self experimentation, I've
| come to realize its far more Art than it is Science and that
| one shoe does not and cannot fit all.
|
| Obviously we should reduce our meat consumption in the West,
| and opt for smaller, organic and grass fed cuts of better
| quality meat cooked in good animal fats in our diet but
| phasing it out entirely seems like an unobtainable panacea to
| me at best, and a horrible existence for most like myself.
|
| But Life is too short to suffer through more than one bad
| meal a month, and I work to damn hard to not enjoy myself for
| the 1 meal I eat a day now. Which is often a 4:1 ratio of
| Veg/Carb to meat.
|
| Context: I grew up eating tofu as a kid, so I was no stranger
| to eating soy based protein but it was usually as a side dish
| or a garnish in a soup rather than meal itself.
| PretzelPirate wrote:
| Did you actually cook those animal products at the
| vegan/veg restaurant? If so, that was very rude of you.
| Melting_Harps wrote:
| > Did you actually cook those animal products at the
| vegan/veg restaurant? If so, that was very rude of you.
|
| Yes, but two points: we shared a kitchen layout with our
| sister catering kitchen right next to us. So I used their
| equipment when I cooked, also we had a cleaning company
| come in daily to do a deep clean of the equipment.
|
| I get the sentiment, but honestly you don't want to know
| how much cross-contaminated food you eat when you go to a
| restaurant. Its just the nature of the beast, especially
| when you share walk-ins and do prep with the same
| equipment etc...
| [deleted]
| alltakendamned wrote:
| You eat a kilo worth of food in a single meal ?
|
| Do you dig trenches for a living or what ?
| Miner49er wrote:
| That's ~1300 calories - seems reasonable for a meal.
| h0l0cube wrote:
| They specified a high-protein vegetarian meal. So unless the
| meal is purely made from nuts, it would have to consist of
| processed HP ingredients like TVP.
|
| A sibling post mentioned another study which suggests that it's
| actually the fibre content that determines satiety, which maybe
| matches your observation about oats?
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25613156
| z5h wrote:
| The high protein vegetable meal has 4 times the fibre as the high
| protein meat meal.
|
| The next recommended article is
|
| Protein from Meat or Vegetable Sources in Meals Matched for Fiber
| Content has Similar Effects on Subjective Appetite Sensations and
| Energy Intake-A Randomized Acute Cross-Over Meal Test Study
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29337861/
| xwdv wrote:
| I don't get the obsession with fiber. Cramming as much fiber as
| you can into every meal makes eating a slog and makes it less
| likely you'll be able to pack in all your daily macronutrients,
| because you'll feel too full to eat.
| milesvp wrote:
| I think you may be missing a few things. Fiber is important
| to avoid painful stool compaction. Soluble fiber also slows
| carb absorbtion and lowers the glycemic index of a meal which
| is generally a good thing.
|
| As to your macronutrient concern, unless you are trying to
| eat 4000+ calories which is about when it becomes a chore to
| eat (I once had a job where I lost weight eating less than
| that), high fiber food isn't going to make it hard to get
| your macro nutrients with most modern diets. And foods high
| in fiber tend to have more micronutrients. For instance the
| germ in whole grain is literally the nutrients needed to
| kickstart a seed into a plant.
| junipertea wrote:
| Feeling too full to eat while not maxing out on your calories
| is a desirable goal for many people.
| h0l0cube wrote:
| This matches my own observations where swapping a pure 'bran'
| cereal for any other breakfast meal allows me to feel fuller
| while eating less.
|
| Also, subbing TVP for mince is also a way of increasing fibre
| _and_ protein at the same time. After hydration TVP is almost
| double protein by weight compared to store-bought mince (at
| least where I shop), and it also has a good dose of fibre
| content, and no fat. Once again, I went 50 /50 on this and I
| could eat less and feel fuller, and I argue it tasted better
| because the dish wasn't as oily.
| dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
| If only TVP were easy to buy worldwide. I suspect you're in
| the US where I've seen it offered cheaply in bulk. Elsewhere
| it seems unobtanium.
| howlin wrote:
| Try a grocery that carries Taiwanese (most asian grocers)
| or Mexican food. These places usually have it for sale
| cheap.
| hkt wrote:
| What is TVP?
| lionsdan wrote:
| Textured Vegetable Protein, a soy-based product.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textured_vegetable_protein
| eloff wrote:
| For anyone else wondering what TVP is, it's textured
| vegetable protein (soy). It turns out I eat it all the time
| in microwave burritos, because it saves the manufacturer
| money to mix it with the ground beef.
| ianai wrote:
| Works well for tacos too. I shy away from TVP since it's
| relatively highly processed. Beans work, especially lentils
| for a ground beef replacement - beluga, sprouted green, or
| any of the varieties which don't quickly loosen up like
| red.
| anti-shill wrote:
| what is funny is that there is no cheap TVP for sale in the
| stores...you can get the substitute meat patties (mostly
| soy) etc for sale in many grocery stores, but it is not
| cheap at all...costs considerably more than the cheapest
| hamburger, pork or chicken...if the food manufacturers can
| save money by using TVP mixed in with meat, then why is
| there no cheap TVP for sale in the stores ?
| jfim wrote:
| There's is actually relatively inexpensive flavored
| textured vegetable protein available in the stores
| though; soy chorizo (or soyrizo) is about the same price
| as meat, even though it probably has much lower sales.
| eloff wrote:
| It's all about volume. I've noticed the beyond and
| impossible burgers are substantially _more_ expensive
| than meat despite supposedly requiring much less
| resources to produce. Not enough competition or volume.
| jasonv wrote:
| I combine cereals..Fiber One with something else. It's a good
| way to get the benefit and still enjoy other cereals (still
| mostly healthy).
| [deleted]
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| Vegan protein powder tastes pretty great. I use a Costco brand.
| You can add it to almost any meal. If you are lifting weights,
| its almost impossible to get enough vegan sources of protein to
| meet the 1g / 1 lb of body weight that is usually recommended.
|
| Actually, if anyone knows how to put together 150g+ protein /day
| on a vegan diet in under 2100 calories I would be interested. I
| would switch over at least a few of my days to vegan.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > 1g / 1 lb
|
| Why would you mix units like this?!
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| This is the standard way this is discussed. Most people aim
| for 1 gram of protein per 1 lb of body weight.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Yeah but I mean why mix imperial and metric units in the
| same situation? Seems mind-bending and error-prone.
| GavinMcG wrote:
| Because mixing units but keeping coefficients 1:1 means
| there's no math, as long as you measure your bodyweight
| in pounds and have a way of measuring your protein in
| grams (which food packaging does, even in the U.S.).
|
| Mixing coefficients instead of units means you need to
| express it as 2.2g/kg which means having to do a
| calculation, or two calculations if you need to convert
| your bodyweight from pounds to kilograms.
| danaliv wrote:
| It's a 1:1 ratio with those units. Hard to imagine
| anything _less_ mind-bending /error-prone. Set your body
| scale to pounds and your food scale to grams. Done.
| rco8786 wrote:
| Because (at least in the US) we weigh ourselves in pounds
| and weigh protein by the gram. That's kinda of the long
| and the short of it lol.
| swsieber wrote:
| Somebody made a humorous flowchart about using imperial
| vs metric: https://preview.redd.it/k1brffgbngk31.png?widt
| h=681&format=p...
|
| There a lot of situations I can imagine from that
| flowchart where you mix systes in a single sentence.
| bitexploder wrote:
| It's just a common heuristic. It's not like it's used for
| much other than a staring point for how much protein to
| consume.
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| I'm from Canada we mix both units all the time, or maybe
| its just me. But I think this has to do with most foods
| being labeled with grams, its easier to add in decimal.
| But most people weigh themselves in lbs.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| Can you explain what you think is confusing about 1g per
| 1lb?
|
| I suspect you're cargo culting "never mix units!" without
| realizing that the advice is talking about denominating
| the same thing in different units (thus having to do
| conversion).
|
| I'd be curious to see your explanation of the mind
| bending and error prone nature of "ok, I weigh 200lbs and
| now I will ensure I get 200g of protein today" and the
| exact scenario where you think it would pose a problem.
| Frankly I think you'd realize it doesn't exist.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Because if you're in a country that measures in metric
| you have to convert one side from imperial, and if you're
| in a country that measures in imperial you have to
| convert one side from metric.
| [deleted]
| kitrose wrote:
| 1. Because it lines up well with the portion size
|
| 2. It's not like you're using the same scale to weigh
| yourself and the protein powder
| bitexploder wrote:
| Most people perform the calculation on lean mass.
| Overweight people don't need 300g of protein, for example.
| boublepop wrote:
| Because Americans are slowly transitioning to metric, but
| still use pounds on scales.
| alextheparrot wrote:
| Food macronutrients are labeled in grams, scales are in
| pounds. So this is the most natural way to purvey the
| information without needing conversions
|
| [In the US]
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| Why do we measure pascal's?
|
| Because it's a standard. It's not something they made up.
| techwizard81 wrote:
| Because the recommended amount of grams of protein you need
| per day for body building is usually around 1g of protein for
| every 1 pound of bodyweight
| [deleted]
| k_sze wrote:
| This is an interesting subject. I wish I knew and understood
| more, so I can eat less meat and eat more healthily.
|
| My problem is that I'm Chinese and I live in Hong Kong. I've
| lived many years in Montreal before but I never picked up any
| "Western" culinary knowledge. Meanwhile, I get the impression
| that a lot of these nutritional studies seem to be based on
| Western diet, and there are ingredients that we Chinese are not
| familiar with (e.g. I can't name at least half of the beans and
| vegetables that go into a salad at Passion by Gerard Dubois), let
| alone know where to buy without getting ripped off. Things that
| one would find completely ordinary and affordable in US/Canada
| can be ridiculously expensive and/or hard to find in Hong Kong.
|
| If anybody has recommendations (books, YouTube channels, links,
| etc.) for someone living in East Asia to replicate similarly
| satiating, nutritious, and appealing meals, that would be awesome
| KittenInABox wrote:
| My brother who is east asian and is vegetarian follows anything
| that goes along with buddhist eating styles (except he also
| declines fish).
| annoyingnoob wrote:
| I like my beans with meat.
| joegahona wrote:
| This is my experience too, though I eat a lot of starch in the
| form of potatoes and rice as well.
| Proven wrote:
| They probably taste like crap tho
| [deleted]
| dirtyid wrote:
| More bloat from carb + water retention as well. Comfort of pants
| varied between low/high carb days. Sometimes feeling full is just
| feeling fat.
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