https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2025/12/deliberate-internet-shutdowns.html Schneier on Security Menu * Blog * Newsletter * Books * Essays * News * Talks * Academic * About Me Search Powered by DuckDuckGo [ ] [Go] ( ) Blog ( ) Essays (*) Whole site Subscribe AtomFacebookTwitterEmail HomeBlog Deliberate Internet Shutdowns For two days in September, Afghanistan had no internet. No satellite failed; no cable was cut. This was a deliberate outage, mandated by the Taliban government. It followed a more localized shutdown two weeks prior, reportedly instituted "to prevent immoral activities." No additional explanation was given. The timing couldn't have been worse: communities still reeling from a major earthquake lost emergency communications, flights were grounded, and banking was interrupted. Afghanistan's blackout is part of a wider pattern. Just since the end of September, there were also major nationwide internet shutdowns in Tanzania and Cameroon, and significant regional shutdowns in Pakistan and Nigeria. In all cases but one, authorities offered no official justification or acknowledgment, leaving millions unable to access information, contact loved ones, or express themselves through moments of crisis, elections, and protests. The frequency of deliberate internet shutdowns has skyrocketed since the first notable example in Egypt in 2011. Together with our colleagues at the digital rights organisation Access Now and the # KeepItOn coalition, we've tracked 296 deliberate internet shutdowns in 54 countries in 2024, and at least 244 more in 2025 so far. This is more than an inconvenience. The internet has become an essential piece of infrastructure, affecting how we live, work, and get our information. It's also a major enabler of human rights, and turning off the internet can worsen or conceal a spectrum of abuses. These shutdowns silence societies, and they're getting more and more common. Shutdowns can be local or national, partial or total. In total blackouts, like Afghanistan or Tanzania, nothing works. But shutdowns are often targeted more granularly. Cellphone internet could be blocked, but not broadband. Specific news sites, social media platforms, and messaging systems could be blocked, leaving overall network access unaffected--as when Brazil shut off X (formerly Twitter) in 2024. Sometimes bandwidth is just throttled, making everything slower and unreliable. Sometimes, internet shutdowns are used in political or military operations. In recent years, Russia and Ukraine have shut off parts of each other's internet, and Israel has repeatedly shut off Palestinians' internet in Gaza. Shutdowns of this type happened 25 times in 2024, affecting people in 13 countries. Reasons for the shutdowns are as varied as the countries that perpetrate them. General information control is just one. Shutdowns often come in response to political unrest, as governments try to prevent people from organizing and getting information; Panama had a regional shutdown this summer in response to protests. Or during elections, as opposition parties utilize the internet to mobilize supporters and communicate strategy. Belarusian president Alyaksandr Lukashenko, who has ruled since 1994, reportedly disabled the internet during elections earlier this year, following a similar move in 2020. But they can also be more banal. Access Now documented countries disabling parts of the internet during student exam periods at least 16 times in 2024, including Algeria, Iraq, Jordan, Kenya, and India. Iran's shutdowns in 2022 and June of this year are good examples of a highly sophisticated effort, with layers of shutdowns that end up forcing people off the global internet and onto Iran's surveilled, censored national intranet. India, meanwhile, has been the world shutdown leader for many years, with 855 distinct incidents. Myanmar is second with 149, followed by Pakistan and then Iran. All of this information is available on Access Now's digital dashboard, where you can see breakdowns by region, country, type, geographic extent, and time. There was a slight decline in shutdowns during the early years of the pandemic, but they have increased sharply since then. The reasons are varied, but a lot can be attributed to the rise in protest movements related to economic hardship and corruption, and general democratic backsliding and instability. In many countries today, shutdowns are a knee-jerk response to any form of unrest or protest, no matter how small. A country's ability to shut down the internet depends a lot on its infrastructure. In the US, for example, shutdowns would be hard to enforce. As we saw when discussions about a potential TikTok ban ramped up two years ago, the complex and multifaceted nature of our internet makes it very difficult to achieve. However, as we've seen with total nationwide shutdowns around the world, the ripple effects in all aspects of life are immense. (Remember the effects of just a small outage--CrowdStrike in 2024--which crippled 8.5 million computers and cancelled 2,200 flights in the US alone?) The more centralized the internet infrastructure, the easier it is to implement a shutdown. If a country has just one cellphone provider, or only two fiber optic cables connecting the nation to the rest of the world, shutting them down is easy. Shutdowns are not only more common, but they've also become more harmful. Unlike in years past, when the internet was a nice option to have, or perhaps when internet penetration rates were significantly lower across the Global South, today the internet is an essential piece of societal infrastructure for the majority of the world's population. Access Now has long maintained that denying people access to the internet is a human rights violation, and has collected harrowing stories from places like Tigray in Ethiopia, Uganda, Annobon in Equatorial Guinea, and Iran. The internet is an essential tool for a spectrum of rights, including freedom of expression and assembly. Shutdowns make documenting ongoing human rights abuses and atrocities more difficult or impossible. They are also impactful on people's daily lives, business, healthcare, education, finances, security, and safety, depending on the context. Shutdowns in conflict zones are particularly damaging, as they impact the ability of humanitarian actors to deliver aid and make it harder for people to find safe evacuation routes and civilian corridors. Defenses on the ground are slim. Depending on the country and the type of shutdown, there can be workarounds. Everything, from VPNs to mesh networks to Starlink terminals to foreign SIM cards near borders, has been used with varying degrees of success. The tech-savvy sometimes have other options. But for most everyone in society, no internet means no internet--and all the effects of that loss. The international community plays an important role in shaping how internet shutdowns are understood and addressed. World bodies have recognized that reliable internet access is an essential service, and could put more pressure on governments to keep the internet on in conflict-affected areas. But while international condemnation has worked in some cases (Mauritius and South Sudan are two recent examples), countries seem to be learning from each other, resulting in both more shutdowns and new countries perpetrating them. There's still time to reverse the trend, if that's what we want to do. Ultimately, the question comes down to whether or not governments will enshrine both a right to access information and freedom of expression in law and in practice. Keeping the internet on is a norm, but the trajectory from a single internet shutdown in 2011 to 2,000 blackouts 15 years later demonstrates how embedded the practice has become. The implications of that shift are still unfolding, but they reach far beyond the moment the screen goes dark. This essay was written with Zach Rosson, and originally appeared in Gizmodo. Tags: denial of service, Internet Posted on December 17, 2025 at 7:02 AM * 20 Comments Comments Clive Robinson * December 17, 2025 10:19 AM @ Bruce, ALL, As several will know I have a long career in communications and industrial systems engineering along with a Mil/Dip-Comms background. Then there is doing Broadcast engineering VHF, AM, and HF and more fun stuff. And have a degree of experience in using them all at lets call it "Stressful times". So I'm quite aware of the effect a loss of communications is. And I can confidently say without doubt it is going to be a weapon of war as the Israeli attacks on Gazza communications have shown, Russian attacks on the Ukraine and Europe. All non-"Point to Point"(P2P) comms are extremely vulnerable and the use of VHF and UHF handhelds in quite a few emergency cases are of less use than a megaphone... Worse people are being conned into POC and similar non-P2P radio systems which basically are little more than "Private Networks on public network Mobile Phones" thus even more vulnerable than mobile phones in general... If people want reliable communications over more than a couple of miles, then they need to make a significant investment not just in systems but as importantly training and practice. I have equipment that will let me communicate world wide if used properly that is actually less expensive than a mobile phone. The fact it will do "Digital Comms" with a high level of "Message Security" (but not traffic security as stands) makes it of considerable use. It can be used to send Emails and SMS messages to points around the globe that are not "locked down". But also it's especially useful as it will run off-grid via a 100A LiPo battery for days, and solar will keep the battery topped off almost indefinitely even in high latitudes "where the sun hardly shines". The simple fact is "authoritarian desires" in those who want control will increase "Information Systems Lock Down" where ever they can when ever they can. It's something I've been waving a red flag about hear and other places for over a decade now. Admittedly I thought "full Balkanization" of the Internet would happen at the UN ITU meeting in Doha back in 2014. Some how it was avoided as a major breakup then but over the intervening years Balkanization has without doubt moved forwards often with the help of Silicon Valley Corporates that see "getting into bed" with authoritarians as a way to "keep very short term profits flowing". I suspect most can guess where this mess will end up, and it's not good. Thus taking the time now to defend against it should be considered by more and more people as an essential skill set. KC * December 17, 2025 11:10 AM Absolutely explore the Dashboard that Zach and Bruce link to if you have time. https://www.accessnow.org/keepiton-data-dashboard/ The linked 2024 report is another powerful and visual look at this work. The impact stories on page 16 and 17 are particularly humanizing. https://www.accessnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/ KeepItOn-2024-Internet-Shutdowns-Annual-Report.pdf lurker * December 17, 2025 12:42 PM There is a way to stop this: abolish the Nation State. It's a social problem, technical solutions are unlikely. pattimichelle * December 17, 2025 1:15 PM How does this affect cell service? I am unsure how phones interface with the internet (other than there doesn't seem to be a private router available - only VPN). K.S * December 17, 2025 1:18 PM @Clive Robinson Would your equipment be able to operate in the political environment where Funkabwehr exist? I suspect not, as its use will stand out to anyone looking. I think the answer is a version of deniable encryption in the existing modes of communication using existing networks. Andy * December 17, 2025 4:39 PM @pattimichelle look at that 2011 shutdown link in Egypt. Vodafone was ordered to shut down service and they simply did it. Clive Robinson * December 17, 2025 6:50 PM @ pattimichelle, With regards, "I am unsure how phones interface with the internet (other than there doesn't seem to be a private router available - only VPN)." Which part of the interface? And more importantly what part of the business / economics / geo-politics has caused it to be the way it is... Ever since the 1990's telco's moved their "private networks" from "circuit switched" to "packet switched" and mostly from the 1960's designed X.25 and similar ISO OSI standards to the way less secure and less capable US DoD IP standards, "Because it made the equipment less and less expensive." But IP lacks all manner of things that give resilience thus availability, and bolting them on has as you might expect resulted in a Victorian Frankenstein horror. Thus as our host knows the UK BT had what the trade called the IP-2000 goal project to remove all -then- existing audio and data networks over to an IP based system. Thus IP interfacing moved outwards into the other interfaces. Technically your phone probably uses the GSM standards of the European and global "Third Generation Partnership Project"(3GPP) organisation under the auspices of the "European Telecommunications Standards Institute"(ETSI). That in turn sort of works under the "United Nations"(UN) "International Telecommunications Union"(ITU) [that actually existed before the UN... It started over a century and a half ago between 20 European nations, https://untoday.org/ from-the-telegraph-to-digital-a-glimpse-into-itus-story/ And it formed a model that later the EEC and in turn the EU was based upon. You can find a number of information resources online at least one of which is AI Agent based, https://eureka.patsnap.com/article/ what-is-3gpp-and-its-role-in-5g-standards Note the 3GPP commitment to "open technical" standards that comes down through ETSI from the EU political structure. This is a very very sore point with the US. Because the US Comms business model is based on a very much closed "boys club" where having decent interface standards is seen as unimportant, but having large and profitable patent portfolios thus getting leverage on the likes of the Federal Government is highly desired. And how the "boys club" keeps everything very profitable in what is a defacto "closed cartel". Because the US cartel was inwardly short term profit focussed for the past few decades, it did not really invest in Research and Development. Thus China amongst others "ate not just their lunch but took their lunch money as well". They did this by doing research and providing many of the key patents for standards that the 3GPP use for 5G. Hence the nutbar behaviour over 5G by supposed "grass roots" organisations and hanging on weirdos who set-fire to any telco masts or what they thought were masts (including grid power pylons...). All over carefully seeded rumors of mind control, spreading cancer, sterilising children and microwaving people with darker skin pigments (yup more "button pushing" "dog whistles" than you could bat away with any stick). In other words a classic "CIA Conspiracy theory style operation" to try to kill of 5G. That unfortunately for the US boys club cartel failed. So round two was at about the same time certain political interests were convinced by certain lobbyists and representatives that China was a hostile Economic Power that would destroy the USA by spying via 5G... The fact it was not technically possible unless all those involved chose to "look the other way" and let it happen was an "inconvenient truth" that also killed that argument. But by then certain Political Interests were highly invested in the narrative for their own advantage, so we are where we are with the "Tariffs Nonsense" that the idiot-child "splains away" is good for all... The reality was US Corps had sold out to China in one way or another for short term profit, and US money flowed into China like a breached dam. China realising that the US would at some point turn on the printing presses and print money by the 5h1t-ton sensibly converted as much of the money as they could as quickly as they could into US assets, thus negating the printing press issue, that when it started made every US wage earner significantly poorer and pushed many across the poverty line. The result is if China wanted to they could very very easily push the US economically over the cliff edge or out the window, depending on your preferred metaphor. The reason they don't is that as the US is the major consumer market swallowing up half the worlds resources, funded by weapons, and petrochemicals, tightly linked by the "Petro-Dollar" it's not in their interest to "kill the world economy", just move it out from under the US thumb which takes time. What we are currently undergoing is sometimes called "a period of adjustment" whilst the US in effect bullies it's self into economic ruin and mass poverty for the sake of the "Boys clubs". The US Comms Cartel, however still as inwardly focussed as ever is hoping to get their misappropriated ideas into 3GPP and 6G and turn it from the "Open Technical Standards" model to a "Closed Standard Cartel" model. Part of this will be the "bring the chips home" idea of getting the manufacture of the required chip technology firmly under the US thumb. But as an idea it's idiotic at best because other nations have leverage on the US and it's military via the manufacture of semiconductors, that it would be National suicide if they gave it up. Those Nations realise like much of the rest of the world that the "idiot child" is not long for this world and that US Corp "Boys Club" Cartels will not grow up to new realities in time either. So they are "playing along" and taking more US Dollars and rapidly reinvesting else where to form new non US markets that behave more equitably... As for the US voter they put the "idiot child" in power who in less than a year has shown just how corrupt the US political and military-industrial complex is, and how as a result they have no jobs, no savings, no nothing worth a damn. Not even a roof over their head and food on the table for increasing numbers, hence the worlds largest prison population per capita... As for AI as usual it's a bust in oh so many ways, but it is going to hit the upper middle classes more than those who are already at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. There is an old saying that approximates to "There are three sign posts to disaster. The first is only seen clearly in retrospect and by the few wise enough to look. The second can be seen by most if they actually chose to look. The third is obvious to all even if they chose not to look." Where do you think we are in the journey to disaster, and what sign posts have you seen? Because mad as it might appear it is all this non technical stuff that actually is responsible for the "interfaces" by which electronic communications of all forms exist and which will exist in the future. Clive Robonson * December 17, 2025 7:16 PM @ K.S., With regards, "Would your equipment be able to operate in the political environment where Funkabwehr exist?" Ahh the "Electronic Warfare"(EW) question that we see playing out in the eastern edges of Europe. I'd wanted to avoid getting into it as indicated by my above comment of, "The fact it will do "Digital Comms" with a high level of "Message Security" (but not traffic security as stands)" But yes I can make it "Low Probability of Intercept"(LPI) with high margin to jamming in quite a few ways. And I've explained in overview in the past on this blog how you can do some of it using low tech solutions that most can do if they chose to. BUT as I also say above it needs, "If people want reliable communications over more than a couple of miles, then they need to make a significant investment not just in systems but as importantly training and practice." It's something that moves forward so fast that even the Mil-Dip Comms "training" manuals you can download are "well behind the curve" as none cover MIMO, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590123024020401 Or mesh systems. Both of which appear in most modern Consumer Electronics for "Home use" which is an EW environment in it's own right. A random HAM * December 18, 2025 4:10 AM I have equipment that will let me communicate world wide if used properly that is actually less expensive than a mobile phone. As do all HAMs. P2P may work for a small number of users. But anything that needs to support the general population will require shared infrastructure. Stop dreaming. Clive Robinson * December 18, 2025 5:23 AM @ A random HAM, ALL, With regards, "P2P may work for a small number of users. But anything that needs to support the general population will require shared infrastructure. Stop dreaming." Did you actually read my comment? Because above what you quote from is, "If people want reliable communications over more than a couple of miles, then they need to make a significant investment not just in systems but as importantly training and practice." The flip side of that is those that use mobile phones (including the "Push to Talk" or POC hand helds) or the low cost VHF & UHF hand held devices will by and large, 1, Not have the "required systems". 2, Not have had "the training". 3, And certainly not "the practice". So the majority of people are really not going to be an issue in "Stressful times" for which I've provided and operated systems over many years and have experienced what happens in "Stressful times". And it's why I know most HAM's can not do it either because they have the wrong systems, are not trained and don't actually have the "practice. But my main point was, "All non-"Point to Point"(P2P) comms are extremely vulnerable and the use of VHF and UHF handhelds in quite a few emergency cases are of less use than a megaphone..." It's the reason these "lock downs" are even remotely possible. And surprisingly to many in all but a very few cases the "National Governments" can not lock it down. They have no "magic button" to press. What they do is get the "service operators" who do have a "keyboard" to co-ordinate together and turn the network into test modes. Thus it's the service operators that actually do things. It's a point that planners and others really need to think on. Now look at the lessons of the situation at the East of Europe and that it was quickly found that for one side (RU) they had assumed in their planning that the mobile network would work for them because they had not done anything like the "training and practice" and due to corruption their systems were at best inadequate. But the harsh reality was that the other side (UA) quickly realised just how much intelligence data they were obtaining by leaving the networks up and allowing RU comms "back home" to happen. If you look down the list of countries doing these lock downs, they really are not doing themselves any favours. Because the more they do it the more ordinary people will adapt around the authoritarians and the overly compliant corporations. Which is why I made two other points. Firstly, "So I'm quite aware of the effect a loss of communications is. And I can confidently say without doubt it is going to be a weapon of war" Now I'm not sure if you or others appreciate what that actually means to the population in general. But war mostly starts when authoritarians feel they need to prove something about the size of their organs. A quick look at what is going on in Africa with the "coup belt" that started with RU advisors should give you information of worth. And I concluded with the second point, "The simple fact is "authoritarian desires" in those who want control will increase "Information Systems Lock Down" where ever they can when ever they can. It's something I've been waving a red flag about hear and other places for over a decade now. Admittedly I thought "full Balkanization" of the Internet would happen at the UN ITU meeting in Doha back in 2014. Some how it was avoided as a major breakup then but over the intervening years Balkanization has without doubt moved forwards often with the help of Silicon Valley Corporates that see "getting into bed" with authoritarians as a way to "keep very short term profits flowing"." Thus the two main components of the issue are seen in the last sentence and the likely longterm result (War) is given in the other point. The real question for you and others is that now you are aware of the problems, what are you going to do? Dec_18 * December 18, 2025 7:45 AM @ Clive Robinson ... In other words a classic "CIA Conspiracy theory style operation" to try to kill of 5G. While disinformation is frequently used in statecraft, there is no public evidence that the "5G causes cancer" movement was a CIA-led operation. Most analysts attribute this to organic "technophobia" amplified by general social media algorithms and adversarial foreign botnets looking to sow discord in the West. Clive Robinson * December 18, 2025 9:27 AM @ Dec_18, It would help everyone if you stopped changing your handle, it does not change your manner(s) so why do it? With regards your "no public evidence" that, "movement was a CIA-led operation." I never said there was, and your deliberate misreading really is getting quite tiresome. What I said was it was in the "style" of, which implies that somebody was imitating in some way. Or as the French might say "a la maniere de CIA". K.S * December 18, 2025 9:30 AM @ Clive Robinson I am not seeing it. It is likely that your subject matter expertise exceeds my understanding, but I am simply not understanding how you could successfully implement avoidance of EW. The technology to triangulate active RF transmitter is likely older than most readers of this blog. War in Ukraine demonstrated that anything transmitting can and will quickly get detected and accurately located. After you are located, the adversary solves every other issue with the rubber hose analysis. Sadly, as UK demonstrated, if you want freedom of speech and association you have to be able to operate in a hostile environment, where people with guns can kick your front door down. Recent Twitter IP location disclosure showed that many UK politicians understand that and exclusively using VPNs (while it is still allowed) for speech. My view remains, unrestricted communications can only be maintained by hiding in regular traffic, something too costly for People with Guns to completely shut down. Unlike Taliban, that produces nothing of value, UK government could not and would not shut down regular communications no matter how authoritarian they get, the economic damage would be too devastating. They could shut down any RF transmitter by making it illegal and/or require licensing. K.S * December 18, 2025 9:39 AM P.S. The other poster is not me. SomeoneOrSomeone * December 18, 2025 12:33 PM This would be a great reason for people to start developing a true alternative network architecture, one which does not rely upon government/corporate owned telecoms infrastructure. I'd really like to see more work started on things like cross-border line-of-sight optical communications, mesh networks designed specifically to make radio direction finding attacks against nodes as hard as possible, LEO satellite constellations launched with the specific intention of providing uncensored service in to countries where they are banned. There's one article I found from a while back which notes some of these concepts https://dailysceptic.org/2025/08/16/ the-online-safety-act-exposes-how-fragile-our-overly-centralised-internet-really-is / (towards the bottom half of the article), but otherwise there's so little talk about actually employing separate, parallel infrastructure for the internet. Useful as a VPN or Tor can be, neither will work if the physical connection between where you are and where the VPN server, tor entry node, tor exit node, is cut off to all traffic. No amount of cryptography can jump across a disconnected cable, censorship-proofing and mass-surveillance-proofing needs new infrastructure, not just clever data protocols to try to hide encrypted traffic among common traffic. Long term reader, don't think I've commented before, but thanks for a great blog Bruce. Thanks Rontea * December 18, 2025 12:36 PM In an age where the light of connection flickers under the weight of authority, deliberate internet shutdowns feel like humanity rehearsing its own erasure. Each new blackout whispers that our dependence is both our solace and our curse. These interruptions, multiplying like omens, remind us how fragile the illusion of permanence has always been. My gratitude to Professor Schneier and Zach Rosson for their vigilance, standing sentinel over these creeping silences that have become our shared fate. ResearcherZero * December 20, 2025 12:31 AM There are ways to get you mobile equipment to work in politically oppressed regions, in some cases. It may not work all of the time and may come with restrictions and caveats. (No, its not getting a job with the Russian intelligence and security services.) Russia has created a whitelist of approved websites which might be accessible during shutdowns. Western apps are entirely blocked during shutdowns, including glucose monitoring applications parents use to remotely monitor diabetic children. Putin claims that all Western apps help Ukraine to target Russia with drones so they must be blocked for security. In some regions - mobile internet is entirely blocked - all of the time. Fixed internet connections are frequently subject to disruptions and censorship. https://carnegieendowment.org/russia-eurasia/politika/2025/12/ russia-internet-restrictions Across Russia, unpredictable shutdowns last for hours or days without warning. https://apnews.com/article/ russia-internet-cellphone-disruptions-ukraine-war-9644b7147d661a8e0809465afffb452f However, the Kremlin has a kind of solution, that is not at all dubious... Russia is creating a database to track every mobile device within its borders. Authorities claim that this might help to reduce shutdowns. The International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI) for every mobile device will be tied to the subscriber's details and SIM card. Any new devices and SIMs entering the country will be subject to a cool-down period and will be blocked until approved by state authorities and entered into the database for tracking. https://www.dagens.com/politics/ russia-plans-sweeping-phone-registration-to-counter-drone-attacks Steve Kovacks * December 21, 2025 9:59 PM "There's still time to reverse the trend, if that's what we want to do. Ultimately, the question comes down to whether or not governments will enshrine both a right to access information and freedom of expression in law and in practice." Good luck with that. You people will never learn what the state is. Thus, you remain surprised and disappointed when it does what it is designed to do. Clive Robinson * December 22, 2025 5:52 AM @ Researcher Zero, ALL, "Young and tender wanted at the Russian Front" You missed this story in your posting on Russian political and military activities. Radio intercept : Russian soldiers resorting to cannibalism due to food shortages "A newly released intelligence recording has cast a disturbing light on conditions facing Russian troops on one section of the front line in southern Ukraine. According to the Main Intelligence Directorate of Ukraine's Ministry of Defense, the conversation was intercepted among Russian servicemen fighting in the Zaporizhzhia direction. The agency published details of the recording in a post on its official Facebook page. "A new episode of horror from the positions of Russian forces in Zaporizhzhia. Due to food shortages, the occupiers are sharpening knives and preparing to eat younger accomplices," the intelligence directorate said in its statement." https://www.dagens.com/news/ radio-intercept-russian-soldiers-resorting-to-cannibalism-due-to-food-shortages Personally I do not know what to make of it. Yes Russians have a history of "eating their own" when food shortages happen but that goes back before and into the early Soviet Era, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921%E2%80%931922 Yes Russians have a very recent documented history of sexual and worse abuse of civilians and opposing forces combatants, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Sexual_violence_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Torture_and_castration_of_a_Ukrainian_POW_in_Pryvillia But premeditated "eating their own"? That generally requires a certain type of mentality that is not that common in supposedly first world nations, outside of certain criminal types that are incarcerated permanently for the safety of society. Alexander Laslo Ross * December 22, 2025 9:28 AM @Clive Robinson I still have yet to read the full comment let alone the replies. But let's just say you may have had me throw out six years of planning with the phrase "x.25" lol. I'd love to get your take overall overall on the insane approach I've been taking so far, would love it if you'd be willing to drop me a line at alex at war dot monster (odd domain I know). Nothing to sell here and as powerful as this stuff is, I think it needs not to be... Atom Feed Subscribe to comments on this entry Leave a comment Cancel reply Blog moderation policy Login Name [ ] Email [ ] URL: [ ] [ ] Remember personal info? 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