https://codeberg.org/forgejo/sustainability/pulls/137/files This website requires JavaScript. # Explore About FAQ Help Donate Register Sign in forgejo/sustainability Watch 36 Star 17 Fork You've already forked sustainability 9 Code Issues 8 Pull requests 7 Activity Initial Dutch government OSPO call #137 Open MultisampledNight wants to merge 4 commits from MultisampledNight/ sustainability:dutch-ospo into main pull from: MultisampledNight/sustainability:dutch-ospo merge into: forgejo:main [ ] forgejo:main Conversation 6 Commits 4 Files changed 2 +308 2 changed files with 308 additions and 0 deletions (*) Show all changes ( ) Ignore whitespace when comparing lines ( ) Ignore changes in amount of whitespace ( ) Ignore changes in whitespace at EOL Download patch file Download diff file Expand all files Collapse all files Show outdated comments BIN 2025/dutch-ospo/2025-11-11-initial-call.pdf (Stored with Git LFS) Normal file View file Binary file not shown. 305 2025/dutch-ospo/2025-11-11-initial-call.typ Normal file Unescape Escape View file @ -0,0 +1,305 @@ #import "@preview/flow:0.3.2": * #show: note.with( title: "Forgejo Dutch Government call notes", jitsi: [https://meet.jit.si/ForgejoOSPObzk], start: "2025-11-11 14:00", end: "15:00", protocol: (contributors: ( "multisn8", "n0toose", "oliverpool" )) ) #pagebreak(weak: true) = Introduction round / Gina: Gi - Ministry of the interior - Goal: More open-source - OpenDesk already is in Germany, now also in Netherlands - Short-term goal: Setting up a code platform - This call - Figuring out how governments can _help_ Forgejo! yay :3 - Do also work together with the French government / Gusted: Gu - Basically a Forgejo contributor since its inception. Also: Computers. Since a long time. - Forgejo has no higher "level" than contributor / oliverpool: O - Forgejo contributor - Would enjoy having paid OSS missions to sell to his employer - Has had contact with French ministry of education: Want to use Forgejo, too - want to move away from GitLab community edition - some paid features cannot be accepted as contributions to the community edition - are considering Forgejo - but the gitlab-pages migration is not easy - (Context for protocol: Also made contributions to the notes after the meeting took place.) / Multi: M - just takes notes lol / n0toose: N - Forgejo contributor - (note taker's audio feed was interrupted, *N* cannot remember what was said.) - (Context for protocol: Also made contributions to the notes after the meeting took place.) = Pronunciation / N: Whatever (joke) / Gu: Forgejo with a silent R - Coming from Esperanto = What is Forgejo about? / O: Important part of Forgejo: Community and federation - Federation is _not_ developed by the ones present here / Gi: Non-centralized power - Is also on Codeberg = Agenda / Gi: What the Dutch government... + *wants from* Forgejo + *can do for* Forgejo = What the Dutch government wants from Forgejo / Gi: - So far, nothing that isn't already present - Except: CI == CI / Gu: Supports a lot of CI runners - Forgejo Actions is built-in - Reimpl of GH Actions from scratch - Still in dev: Works towards feature-parity - Limitations already visible though - Difficult with more complex pipelines / Gi: How easy is adding features? - Both code and requests? / Gu: Easy enough - "I think as long as there's a use case, it will be accepted" - Architecture makes it easy enough / O: Written in Go, quite approachable - Expect all contributions to be tested - Maintainers help out with getting a feature there though!! :3 - Contribution acceptance depends on inherent maintenance effort - Don't want features that must be dropped after 3 months due to lack of maintenance - Other CIs can work with Forgejo as well. - SourceHut: Can trigger CI runs quite easily - https://codeberg.org/emersion/yojo -- bridge between Sourcehut and Forgejo - Woodpecker == Volunteers vs. commercial interests / Gi: Are you entirely volunteer-based? / N: Depends on who "you guys" (Context: this meeting's attendees or Forgejo's contributors) is - Even if a contributor works on behalf of a company, the assumption is that their contributions are treated like any other's. "We" expect that we can work together, instead of a mere "push and forget" approach. - Hard part of contributions are tests and maintenance - Symbiotic relationship is _necessary_ - *Gu*: Expect maintenance and availability for questions if code is added - Companies are contributing, too! - They don't always say it out loud though ^^ / Gi: Is there any payment structure? / O: Individual entities have NLnet grants - Codeberg has some, too == Forgejo <> Gitea relation / Gi: How does Forgejo relate to Gitea? / N: (jokingly) We went "solo". / Gu: - In inception: Soft fork - A year ago: Hard fork (after final rebase) - Since then, cherry-picking - No relationship with Gitea anymore except for past commit history / O: https://forgejo.org/2024-02-forking-forward/ - No relation except for security releases - Attempts at cooperation and coordination did not work out qwq == Experience with large institutions/governments / Gi: Have you worked with governments before? / Gu: No - Contributors tell in private or present publicly that they are in a company - But always individuals - Except for Linux distros / Gi: Do you get support requests from them? / Gu: Yes, but usually rather technical questions - e.g. "Why is this slow?", "How can I profile this?" - Result in issues like any other / O: - Forgejo Actions: Pushed by individual contributors - Federation: Pushed by company - Apart from that: Smaller stuff - 1 contributor "suffices" for each === Support contracts/obligations / Gi: - Not worried about features - Worried about having to provide support though - Unsure if 3rd party support contract would be necessary / Gu: Companies figure out in #emoji.sparkles some way #emoji .sparkles [Another forgejo contributor joins and leaves] / O: https://codeberg.org/forgejo/professional-services/issues - Companies can request and offer services there - Each company has to decide for themselves if they need them [Another forgejo contributor joins and leaves] [Another forgejo contributor joins] == Concerns about working together with a government / Gi: Are there any concerns about a government starting to use the project? / N: We need to figure some questions (i.e. scaling) before that, "we can figure things out as we go" - Very often, a large organization might start using Forgejo and stumble upon issues after the fact. / Gu: OSS: Some contributors may not be excited/positive as far as governments are concerned - Others treat them as "yet another organization". [Another forgejo contributor leaves] / Gi: Fair! Governments have not fulfilled that symbiotic pact in the past - only "taking", but not "giving back" as much. == Dedicated scaling talk / Gi: - We're starting a pilot! #emoji.confetti - Would be cool to talk dedicatedly about scaling - Could we set that up? / N: (half-jokingly) "I nominate gusted" / Gu: I do infra for Codeberg, so I'd be the right one for this / O: / Gi: Phrasing it carefully to avoid draining energy - Gusted would be a great first start / N: Work to use Forgejo as a cluster: https://codeberg.org/ forgejo/discussions/issues/259 == Funding / Gi: Is NLnet and Codeberg all funding you receive? / N: No - Haven't had financial transparency reports in the past - Primary source: donations, (single-time, memberships) - Would have to check in with the other Codeberg entities first - (Context: There was a mild misunderstanding with the _you_, so the answer was "on behalf of Codeberg" and not on behalf of Forgejo). - Mentions of how some organizations/companies can "contribute back to Forgejo" by allocating human resources. / Gu: Codeberg is freely allocating funds for Forgejo / O: Complimentary with different goals - Forgejo: Develop Forgejo - Codeberg: Moderation, promote open source, have an OSS code platform, ... [Another forgejo contributor joins] = How could a government help Forgejo? / Gi: Broadly asking: If a government wants to support you, how could they do it? - Developers? - Funds? - Hardware? / O: - Funds: Complicated with tax paperwork and legal issues though - People interested in contributing: Easier + more effective / Gi: - Actually glad: Money is hard to move in governments == Federation / Gi: - How is the federation work going? / N: Lots of work - Plugging a lot of things out and back in, tech debt over several projects - Cannot make any guarantees - More pressure is bad - TL;DR: It's slow, but going. It's complicated. / Gi: Impressed with the ambition, understand that it's hard / N: The goal is to move from having "yet another single point of failure" (i.e. SourceForge, then GitHub, then Codeberg, etc.) - "Just gonna take a while" / Gi: Basic plan: Want to have our own instance - Would be cool to federate though! - Use OpenID connect login - Technical details though - Happy to hear you're open for collaboration! / N: Everyone (companies, governments, big instances like Codeberg's, etc.) benefits! ^^ = Closing questions == Code of Conduct / M: How would CoC work with government projects like this? / Gi: Individual projects figure that out -- we don't have experience with OSS yet == Keeping in touch / Gi: How can we keep in touch? / O: If you have a CB account, you can comment on https:// codeberg.org/forgejo/discussions/issues/412 - Easier to work with if it's in public == Protocol confirmation / N: Are you okay with this protocol being public? / Gi: Yes, I am == Motivation for Dutch government to contact Forgejo / Gi: This a good start, are there any questions? / Gu: What was the primary motivation for switching away from proprietary platforms? / Gi: ICC having their MS accounts blocked - Made them very aware of ecosystem fragility - Looked at their dependencies and alternatives - Digital sovereignty: Hot topic ^^ == Next steps / O: What would be the next step? / Gi: (mentions of red tape/bureaucracy that has to be dealt on OSPO's end) - Seeing how this can work out with e.g. different departments. - 80% bureaucracy, 20% actual stuff. - Seeing how we can contribute back to you (and other projects). - "Lots of work on our part!" 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