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The State of the TI Community
Posted on 14 April 1999
The following text was written by Justin Karneges:
Please excuse any bad writing and/or excessive commas. I'm a
programmer, not an English major. =)
Ahh, the TI community. Just as everything gets corrupted given enough
time, now it's the TI community's turn. I remember back in the days
of the regular NES. I got it in 1988 and back then games were good.
There were only a handful out there and they were well-crafted. The
emphasis was gameplay and design. The NES set the stage for just
about every type of genre out there. Then we reach the Super NES
which was half-full of innovative games and then many clones. By the
time we reach the days of the N64, Playstation, and high-end PC's, we
don't have a whole lot. It's kind of sad really, that with all off
the new technology, most of the new games suck bad. Doom comes out
and then 30 Doom clones are released in the following month. Give me
a break! What happened to the creativity? It's turned into
money-madness, clones, and who can push the most polygons. Funny I
play my SNES more than my N64 and Playstation. Now don't get me
wrong, not every game is crap that comes out. It's just that only a
few are truly good and show the inspiration of 1988. Metal Gear Solid
(the third installment in the Metal Gear series) is about the only
original and truly well-done game in the last year that I can think
of. I guess you could call me a video game purist. I'm harsher than
Roger Ebert panning movies when it comes to me rating video games. It
used to be that just about every video game in a game magazine looked
good. Now you pick up a GamePro and it's full of look-alike games.
Every other month you *might* see a cool game. What ever happened to
the good old days?
You're probably wondering how I'm going to compare this to the TI
community. Well, I can tell you right now that I'm absolutely not
going to bash the games. The games and programs from the TI community
are its best part! What I am going to say though, is that just like
the video game industry, the TI community is suffering.
When I wrote Joltima back in 1997 (released in '98), I was told that
it was one of the better games in a long time. I didn't really get
ANY negativity since it was one of the few RPG's even out there. Back
when I worked on that, the TI community was a very positive place.
Sure there were probably site wars and such, but the community was
very tame and open to any contribution a programmer would make. But
these days it's no longer like that. When Don Barnes released Super
Mario Quest for the TI-89, I scratched my head when I saw that only a
couple of the comments (thanks to ticalc.org's comment system) were
praises about the game. The rest of the comments were negatives, port
requests, or other game requests! Whatever happened to just being
happy that you even have a game to play? Super Mario Quest is a
programmer's work of art. It took skills to make that and I wouldn't
have asked for anything beyond his first release. To the
non-programmers out there: Assembly programming takes work. Days,
weeks, months.. That's right, months! What were you doing while Bill
Nagel was writing Penguins? Probably out having fun while Bill slaved
away. Be thankful when these games come out! No offense to Dimension
TI, but the description of Penguins should really be changed. It says
something like "unfortunately you can't kill the enemies." Huh? When
*could* we kill the enemies? When Nagel followed up with Super Mario
86 then we could, but not beforehand.
So not only do many users completely unappreciate what these
programmers are doing, but there's also been some other problems with
the community. If you look through the ticalc.org comment sections
for the news posts (the ticalc.org comment system is just about the
only place in the TI community where how all of us think and feel is
seen), you'll see that most of them are completely off-topic. Others
are hostile. Then there's advertising. And flames. Where did all of
this come from? Everything is shown to get corrupted over time (as
the books Brave New World, Lord of the Flies, and even Revelation
tell us), but I didn't think this could be true for the TI community!
I mean.. there's not that many of us. And come on people, these are
graphing calculators! I can see that the TI community is taking a
toll for the worst, and I don't know how/if it will turn around. I'm
not knocking everybody of course. Thank ticalc.org for giving me a
place to put this. Thank Dimension TI for an innovative archive
index. Thank the TI-Files' friendly environment. Thank all the
numerous programmers out there from before and now that have
contributed.
I don't know if I really want comments to this article. The TI
community doesn't need another 100k+ comment page to sift through.
All I ask is that we clean up our act. I'd like to clean up the video
game industry if I could, but I think I'd have more of a chance with
this one.
-Justin Karneges [Infiniti]
Reply to this item
Re: Article: The State of the TI Community
Nathan Haines
(Web Page)
I, too, remember when games were fun... and not just because of good
graphics or otherwise! They used to be fun because they had some
special feature that no one had thought of before.
Well, I have the first comment, and I'd like to say that I agree with
you completely, Justin, and I too have faith that the TI community
will pull out of its slump. I wouldn't work here at ticalc.org if I
thought otherwise.
Reply to this comment 14 April 1999, 06:29 GMT
Re: Re: Article: The State of the TI Community
Nick
I agree withwhat has been said. I also think that the
programmers are not appriciated like they should be. Every
program that I have downloaded that had a text file came with
* * * an email address. I don't think the programmers put there
emails there so they can get spammed. It's there so people can
comment. If I ever finish the games I am working on and Submit
them to the Ti-community with my email address, and I never
hear a comment good or bad. I can garrentee that I will never
release another game.
Reply to this comment 15 April 1999, 04:14 GMT
[b] [c]
* Re: Re: Re: Article: The State of the TI Community
iri Account Info
(Web Page)
* * * *
Well, I also, like all others, agree with him, but
about the e-mail. I think it's good, you can say it
when something's wrong or good or stuff.
Reply to this comment 4 February 2000, 23:20 GMT
Re: Re: Article: The State of the TI Community
Anon
Hrm... I, for the record, REALLY ENJOYED Penguins. Once you
figure out the game (takes a few million tries) it becomes a
really fun game to play. Mario 86 I thought was very
impressive, but boring. While I recognized the awesome amounts
of programming it took for Bill Nagel to code it, I thought
that it was basically a very easy version of penguins :) As far
as I'm concerned, ports are only good for the community when
* * * the game is either A) Multiplayer (take the example of
Ztetris-most successful game ever IMHO) or B) at the pinnacle.
By that I mean that it never crashes and no one can think of
anything more to add. Ztetris fit both categories, so ports
were in order. To ask for Zelda 89 to be ported within days of
its beta release is just really disrespectful. It's like
saying, "Good job Michelangelo, but I need that fresco on
another ceiling by tomorrow morning." Give the programmers a
break! You should be thankful they don't charge you for all
this!
Reply to this comment 18 April 1999, 05:49 GMT
[b] [c]
* The TI Community
silverscorpion21
I remember when games were as good as gold because of what
they did not what they looked like. I don't mean to offend
anyone but graphics are not the most important thing
* (though they do step the game up a level if you know what i
mean.) what is important is uniqueness, balance between
complexity and simplicity, and most of all a good hard
working attitude. I also agree with the article completely
you couldn't have stated it better what we need is quality,
not quantity
Reply to this comment 10 July 2003, 23:44 GMT
[b] [c]
* Re: The TI Community
Num Account Info
Definately. Now in 2005, all the new PC games focus
on graphics, not gameplay. Since technology has
advanced far enough, such as 1 gb flash drives 2 cm
* * * * long, (people from 2005+ don't laugh, because this
was really cool!), programmers focus of graphics. I
recall really great games from the past, such as
Megaman, Deus Ex, that had bad graphics. But they
were fun and memorable; I don't remember most of the
recent PC games I've played. Pessimistic I am, but I
think the TI community is on it's deathbed.
Reply to this comment 26 November 2005, 20:16 GMT
[b] [c]
* Re: Re: The TI Community
Ryhan Hassan Account Info
(Web Page)
I agree... but HA! ONE measly gig! my watch
* * * * * * * holds 8. My mini-SD (no, not micro) holds 1 gig
and is a o.25 cm^2 paper thin thing...
Now 2007+, tell us what humanity hast now
created.
Reply to this 27 September 2007, 03:32
comment GMT
[b] [c]
* Re: Re: Re: The TI Community
y2kbugger Account Info
ha, it's 2011 now, 2GB micro of the same
size cost less than 5 dollars. And now
32GB micros are available.
* * * * * * * * * * Also 3TB Hard drives are readily
available.
As for thumb drives the biggest one on
newegg 256GB
So future, what's next?
Reply to this 12 April 2011,
comment 14:02 GMT
[b] [c]
* Re: Re: Re: Re: The TI Community
Weedle Account Info
* * * * * * * * * * * * * Well 2011, it's 2021 now. We now
have MicroSD cards 512GB large and
Flash drives up to 2TB large.
Reply to this 26 August 2021,
comment 19:48 GMT
Re: Article: The State of the TI Community
Jason
All I have to say is that I totally agree!
Reply to this comment 14 April 1999, 06:32 GMT
Re: The State of the TI Community
Tony
Justin, many of the assertions you have made are correct. I think all
of us tend to overreact to situations. If one person is having a bad
day, and they post a negative comment, then a chain reaction is
formed. Many of the visitors to the website probably have good
intentions -- but they have strong opinions.
I would agree with you that most of us are after games and that it's
_just_a_calculator_. I'm sure that most people are appreciative of
the efforts of programmers but become too concerned with other
problems and see past the good.
You say "everything gets corrupted" over time - and that may be true
- but in this case I feel that if everyone made a positive effort
towards the community, we wouldn't even be concerned with this
"nit-picking." Others have suggested an open message board or a Java
chatroom, and I think services such as these would benefit everyone.
I respect ticalc.org for their allowance of such open discussion and
would request to all who want to express their opinions to do so in a
relevant and orderly manner!
Thank you and best regards,
Tony
Reply to this comment 14 April 1999, 06:50 GMT
Re: Article: The State of the TI Community
Wells
I have to agree too, and I don't think it could have been put into
better words than you put it.
Reply to this comment 14 April 1999, 06:58 GMT
Re: Article: The State of the TI Community
Punk_Head
You are very right about both the video game and Ti community! I for
one like to praise and help programers with my e-mails and my
comments. I think if people get back to the roots, in terms of being
happy that there is programs and stick to makeing and helping people
make great programs instead of complaining about what we have then
things can change for the better. :-)
Thanks for the great letter
Punk_Head
Reply to this comment 14 April 1999, 06:58 GMT
[b] [c]
* Re: Re: Article: The State of the TI Community
ReDDoG
if there is a program i like, i will mail the maker of it.
and they usually really appreciate it. only exception i
found was the street fighter people who bitched basically.
but i have mailed the maker of slippy, and megacar, i can't
think of his name right now, and he liked the input and i
helped him with a few ideas. also i mailed stf (maker of
nibelz) and he and i started to talk back and forth, and i
have given him many good ideas to better his game. out of
it, i get lots of programming help, the game that i liked
became even better, and hell, im now one of his beta
* testers. and he really appreciated getting the mail from me
telling him i liked the game. just as i know once i finish
a program i would. im thinking it would be depressing to
put a program out, and if your game is special enough, get
a news item. and once you read the comments about the news
item all you hear is crap about "i don't like it", or off
subject crap. and never get email responces. for the most
part, if i like a program ill mail them back. sure many
people are too busy to read all your mail, but eventually
you get a reply. hell, who knows, maybe youll give them
ideas that could make the game you like even better. or
send bad ideas to make a game you hate, a game you would
like. and don't just flame them.
Reply to this comment 15 April 1999, 12:31 GMT
By God, He''s got it!
Steve Koenig
(Web Page)
Wow, hopefully we can all think about what Justin said and draw our
own opinions *about this article*. I feel this article is the one
that'll help us all see the point of calculators and the calculator
gaming scene....
Although the "TI Community" (I put it in quotes because many see the
community as only the three major web sites, while it is much more
than that) has been in a state of limbo for the past few months, it
will stay strong and continue to grow.
Thats all,
-Steve
Reply to this comment 14 April 1999, 07:16 GMT
Re: Article: The State of the TI Community
Jeffrey Malone
Amen! Think about that, ASM programmers spend weeks just trying to
learn the language so they can spend more time working on programs
for you. Every to to learn ASM? most of us probabley have, and most
of us just look at those tutorials and think wtf? Well these people
probably started out the same way until they just stuck to it and
finalley understood, well why don't we thank them for it? Thanx to
any ASM (or BASIC) programmer out there that spent the time to learn
the language and write their program.
also to prevent your "corruption" I would say that there should be no
more clones, just updates, and programers, don't try to release your
programas soon as can start and quit without crashing, give it to
BETA testers to get suggestions and make it a good game rather than a
series of close updates and then clones...
one more thing, anyone who is starting ASM, don't have your first
program be a game, no sense in making a boring game just because you
can, wait a month (at least) of programming before making any games
:)
Reply to this comment 14 April 1999, 07:42 GMT
[b] [c]
* Re: Asm Programming
David Phillips
(Web Page)
I couldn't agree more! Learning asm (or even basic) can
take a very long time. If you're not experienced at
programming, just the concepts will take you months to
grasp. People should be grateful that people are spending
many hours a day just so they can have a game to play,
rather than insulting it.
About starting out writing a game...I have to disagree.
While this is a debatable area, programming is something
you have to enjoy to do well at. Not everyone can be a
programmer, or at least a good programmer. And if you are
lucky to be skilled at programming, you won't spend time
writing thousands of lines of code if you don't enjoy it.
If you want to write a game, great! Write a game! My first
asm program was Tic Tac Toe for the 86. It took me about a
week. Sure, the game sucked, the code sucked and it wasn't
worth playing. However, it was simple and fun to do and
most importantly, it got me familiar enough with the basics
of asm to move on to more difficult programming.
In fact, I didn't even release a compiled version of it
* when I was done. I uploaded the source to ticalc.org, in
the hopes that it might help someone else learn asm. When I
started asm, I commented every single line in my programs,
mainly because it helped me. But at the same time, this
could really help someone else out. Since the game wasn't
worth playing, downloading or keeping on the calc, I didn't
want to release it as a game. But Bryan bugged me to
compile and upload it, so I finally did.
The reason I didn't want to do that was because someone
would see it, think it was good, then try it out and get
upset because it sucks. I wrote it for me to learn, not for
others to play.
The problem with writing games as a first program is that
to make a really good game, or even a simple game, takes a
lot of knowledge, not just about asm, but about game
programming in general. The tendency is to start on
something too big, get discouraged and never finish it.
By writing simple programs, rather games or not, you feel
like you're accomplishing something and are learning in the
process. If it's not good, don't release it! People can't
differentiate between these programs that you write to
teach yourself something and a great game like Sqrxz or
Vertigo.
Reply to this comment 14 April 1999, 21:00 GMT
Re: Re: Asm Programming
Adam Brooke
(Web Page)
What you've written should be an article in itself. I
totally agree with you - much of the source code I wrote
to learn ASM is totally useless to others, but yet I did
write a game as my first released ASM program - and not
too bad, either. I needed something to encourage me to
learn more, and obviously reading tutorials and typing up
their 40-line programs isn't much fun. Trying to use the
* * * * * * tutorials to teach you what you need to know is.
As for starting on too big a project, I've seen many
programmers who've started on some "great game" that
sounds awesome but then they give up after about a week
and a half.
It takes a lot of experience to write a good ASM game,
and non-ASM programmers often don't realize that for a
beginning ASM programmer, writing even a semi-good game
might take a month or more. (That is, if they finish it.)
What I'm saying is, if you don't program ASM, don't
criticize ASM programs.
Reply to this comment 15 April 1999, 00:05 GMT
Re: Re: Asm Programming
Jon Clarke
I completely agree with you. Even in BASIC, just knowing
what most of the commands do isn't enough, you have to
learn yourself or from others the different ways of doing
certain things. I have seen countless monlithic pieces of
trash spout from my friends calculators written in BASIC
that could have been made infinitely smaller and faster
if they knew how to do certain things, for instance, use
matrices to keep track of lots of stuff at once, instead
* * * * * * of having lists pages long for a thousand different
variables used in the program.
As for learning from other people's work, that is so true
and so useful. I have learned countless things from
programs other people have made, not so much in ASM, but
even in BASIC do I learn mew things all the time. I used
to have an 86, and decided that I would learn to program
in ASM for it. I printed out a couple tutorials, but gave
up in a week because the tutorial was so crappy.
Anyway, I think the article is very true.
Reply to this comment 15 April 1999, 00:30 GMT
[b] [c]
* Re: Re: Asm Programming
Viper-92 Account Info
(Web Page)
"The tendency is to start on something too big, get
discouraged and never finish it."
I'm afraid I have to agree on this.
Sometimes, I get a really good idea for a game to
program. I usually start of quite well but then I get
* * * * into trouble and loose interrest in the game. This
has happened about 10 times so now I have 10
unfinished projects on my harddisk. I did learn a lot
though. Also, my advise to programmers is: "Wait with
announcing your program untill you know for sure that
you're going to finnish it." I once released a demo
and I got a dozen of e-mails of people asking me when
I was going to finnish it. I would feel guilty if I'm
not going to finnish it at all.
Dani l
Reply to this comment 5 February 2002, 13:18 GMT
[b] [c]
* Re: Re: Re: Asm Programming
NightWind Account Info
Absolutely. The same thing's happened to me
about four times.
The other brick wall is to start on something,
find a bug that you can't freaking fix, and
shove it to the back of your mind. Usually,
* * * * * * * when I have a high-priority project, I keep it
grouped right on my calc, so I can work on it
anywhere. Transferring it to the computer moves
it down on your urgency list, and keeping it in
RAM, is, well, too risky.
-NW
Reply to this comment 11 May 2005, 06:06
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