https://svpow.com/2024/09/12/if-i-could-dissect-a-sauropod/ Sauropod Vertebra Picture of the Week SV-POW! ... All sauropod vertebrae, except when we're talking about Open Access. ISSN 3033-3695 If I could dissect a sauropod... September 12, 2024 Luke Horton asked in a comment on a recent post: Given the chance to examine a titanosaur cadaver with your hypothetical army of anatomists, what would you look for first? *FACEPALM* How we've gone almost 17 years without posting about a hypothetical sauropod dissection is quite beyond my capacity. I am also contractually obligated to remind you that the TV show "Inside Nature's Giants" shows dissections of a whale, elephant, giraffe, tiger, anaconda, giant squid, etc., so it's probably the closest we'll ever get. Go look up photos of Dr. Joy Reidenberg standing, um, amidst a partially-dissected whale, or just watch that episode, and your sauropod-dissection-visualizer will be properly calibrated. To get back to Luke's question, there are loads of interesting things that could be dissected in a sauropod, but since the remit here is Matt Wedel x titanosaur, there's only one possible answer: the lung/ air sac system and its diverticula. For several reasons: [wedel-2009-fig-10] Hypothetical reconstruction of the lungs (red) and air sacs (blue, green, and gray) in Haplocanthosaurus CM 879. I'd love to know how close this is to reality. Wedel (2009: fig. 10). First and most obviously, I've spent the last quarter-century trying to infer as much as possible about the respiratory systems of sauropods based on the patterns of pneumaticity in their skeletons, and I'd kill for the opportunity to check the accuracy of my inferences -- and those of all my fellow-travelers in the sauropod and dinosaur respiration biz, like Daniela Schwarz and Emma Schachner and Tito Aureliano and many others. [fig14_air-sacs_v2] Sauropod respiratory system modeled on that of a bird. I'll bet the correspondence wasn't this close. (Also, since making this figure 20 years ago, I've learned that the abdominal air sacs of ostriches are actually rather small, although the perirenal, femoral, and subcutaneous diverticula of the abdominal air sacs are extensive; see Bezuidenhout et al. 1999). Wedel and Cifelli (2005: fig. 14). Second, I am intrigued/haunted by the possibility that extant birds might not represent the apex of saurischian lung/air sac evolution. Birds survived the K-Pg disaster because they were small; respiratory efficiency had little or nothing to do with it (evidence: all the other small-bodied tetrapods that survived, like the many, many squamate and mammalian lineages). To me it would be a wild coincidence if the tiny dinosaurs that survived also just happened to be The Bestest (TM) at some anatomical/physiological thing unrelated to their survival. In fact, given how sensitive birds are to airborne dust and ash, I wonder if their fancy lungs weren't more of a hindrance than a help in the dusty, sooty, iridium-laced post-impact world. Anyway, there are interesting clues that the air sac systems of extant birds are just one subset of a much greater original diversity, like most (all?) birds starting out embryologically with a dozen or so air sacs, which get simplified to the usual 9 or fewer by fusions. What did other dinosaurs do with their 12 (or more?) air sacs? If any dinosaurian clade was going to push the capabilities of the "avian" lung/air sac system in interesting directions and to fascinating extremes, sauropods seem like a good bet. [boisvert-et-al-2024-fig-12-saurischian-rib-movement-axes] Rib articulation angles in the dorsal vertebrae of (a) Lufengosaurus, (b) Diplodocus, (c) Haplocanthosaurus, (d) Tyrannosaurus, and (e) an ostrich. Anterior is to the right. Diplodocus and Haplocanthosaurus are pretty wildly different considering they coexisted in the Morrison. I really gotta write a whole post about that. Boisvert et al. (2024: fig. 12). So I'm intrigued by the idea that extant birds show us one way that a saurischian lung/air sac system can work, but don't exhaust the territory, anymore than kangaroos show us all the ways that mammals can reproduce. Maybe sauropods had even better lungs than birds! Or maybe not. Likely they were doing their own weirdly specialized thing -- or many weirdly specialized things -- that left few to no diagnostic traces in their skeletons. We can be pretty confident that at least some of the pneumatic diverticula of sauropods worked essentially identically to how they do in birds (see Woodruff et al. 2022 and this post), and mid-dorsal pneumatic hiatuses in juvenile sauropods -- predicted by me in 2003, found by Melstrom et al. (2016) and Hanik et al. (2017) -- suggest that their air sac systems were broadly comparable. On the other hand, the variety of rib articulation angles just within Morrison sauropods tells us they weren't all ventilating their air sacs in quite the same way (Boisvert et al. 2024), despite broad similarities with other dinos at the levels of rib osteology (Wang et al. 2023) and whole-thorax construction (Schachner et al. 2009, 2011). (Aside: why the hell didn't I work a citation of Wang et al. 2023 into the Dry Mesa Haplo paper? I can only conclude that I am at least occasionally an idiot.) Whatever was going on, I'm pretty sure sauropods didn't look exactly like 60-ton turkeys on the inside, but we don't have a ton of real data on how they differed. It would be amazing to find out. [rapetosaurus-skeleton-silhouette] The mounted Rapetosaurus skeleton at the Field Museum, traced from a photo. Specific weird things to note: neck about twice as long as tail, cervical vertebrae about twice as tall as dorsals, and smallish pelvic bones relative to hindlimbs (= skinny posterior abdomen, at least dorsoventrally). See this post for details. Third, if any sauropods were going to rival or exceed birds in fancy under-the-hood anatomical and physiological adaptations, my money would be on titanosaurs. They were morphologically disparate, phylogenetically diverse, geographically widespread, they independently evolved to giant size more times than any other sauropod clade, and their growth rates were wild. I'd dissect any sauropod I got access to (uh duh), but a titanosaur would be particularly appealing. Which titanosaur? Probably Rapetosaurus: we know it grew very fast early on (Curry Rogers et al. 2016, and see implications for the nervous system in Smith et al. 2022), it had a highly pneumatic vertebral column (O'Connor 2006), its body proportions were pretty wacky, and it had other features of interest to me, like expanded neurocentral joints (see Wedel and Atterholt 2023 and this post) and neural canal ridges (see Atterholt et al. 2024 and this post). [rapetosaurus-proximal-caudal-ncrs-curry-] I used this photo of a Rapetosaurus caudal vertebra a few posts ago to illustrate the neural canal ridges, but -- like many other sauropods -- it also has very expanded neurocentral joints forming boutons. From Curry Rogers (2009: fig. 27). Oh, and if I got to dissect more than one sauropod, the rest of my top 5 choices in order would be: * the owner of BYU 9024 (Supersaurus? Giant ancient individual of Barosaurus? Are those even different things? Dissecting this critter could tell us!), Barosaurus being the most diplodocid-y and least titanosaur-y neosauropod I know of, and BYU 9024 being from a hellaciously big individual no matter what its classification; * the Snowmass Haplocanthosaurus, because I have just so many questions about all the weird stuff going on with its tail (see Wedel et al. 2021 and this post for starters); * Omeisaurus or Xinjiangtitan, to represent a maximally derived-but-also-weird non-neosauropod; * Sauroposeidon, for obvious emotional reasons (but not enough to dethrone the others). After that? Probably Isanosaurus or Melanorosaurus or something else waaaay down the tree, so I could see how much of the sauropod kit was in place from the get-go (probably most of it). [mwc-8028-caudal-3-cartilage-volume-estimate] Bone vs joint space in the proximal caudals of the Snowmass Haplocanthosaurus. I'd give one non-essential organ to dissect that tail! And after the respiratory system, next up for me would be the spinal cord and any related morphological specializations of the neural canal -- see Table 3 in Atterholt et al. (2024) for a running tally, and this page. Then intervertebral joints, digestive tract, and reproductive system (neither of the last two leave anything useful in the way of skeletal traces), in that order. Arguably the intervertebral joints would be a bigger score for sauropod paleobiology than spinal cord stuff, but maybe not, and having squelched my emotional pick among sauropod taxa, I'm letting my emotions rule when choosing body systems to dissect. I also am intensely interested in the possibility of protofeathers in sauropods, but you don't have to dissect those, you can just see if any are present, so I'd cheat a little and note any integumentary specializations en passant. (Remember than an animal can have hairs without being hairy [naked mole rats, rhinos, manatees, dolphins], ditto for feathers.) So that's the sauropod and the body system I'd dissect first, if given the chance. What's your answer? References * Atterholt, J., Wedel, M.J., Tykoski, R., Fiorillo, A.R., Holwerda, F., Nalley, T.K., Lepore, T., and Yasmer, J. 2024. Neural canal ridges: a novel osteological correlate of postcranial neuroanatomy in dinosaurs. The Anatomical Record, 1-20. https://doi.org/10.1002/ar.25558 * Bezuidenhout, A.J., H.B. Groenewald, and J.T. Soley. 1999. An anatomical study of the respiratory air sacs in ostriches. Onderstepoort Journal of Veterinary Research 66:317-325. * Boisvert, Colin, Curtice, Brian, Wedel, Mathew, & Wilhite, Ray. 2024. Description of a new specimen of Haplocanthosaurus from the Dry Mesa Dinosaur Quarry. The Anatomical Record, 1-19. http:// doi.org/10.1002/ar.25520 * Curry Rogers, Kristina. 2009. The postcranial osteology of Rapetosaurus krausei (Sauropoda: Titanosauria) from the Late Cretaceous of Madagascar. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 29:1046-1086. * Curry Rogers, K., M. Whitney, M. D. D'Emic, and B. Bagley. 2016. Precocity in a tiny titanosaur from the Late Cretaceous of Madagascar. Science 352:450-454. * Hanik, Gina M., Matthew C. Lamanna and John A. Whitlock. 2017. A juvenile specimen of Barosaurus Marsh, 1890 (Sauropoda: Diplodocidae) from the Upper Jurassic Morrison Formation of Dinosaur National Monument, Utah, USA. Annals of Carnegie Museum 84(3):253-263. * Melstrom, Keegan M., Michael D. D'Emic, Daniel Chure and Jeffrey A. Wilson. 2016. A juvenile sauropod dinosaur from the Late Jurassic of Utah, USA, presents further evidence of an avian style air-sac system. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 36 (4):e1111898. doi:10.1080/02724634.2016.1111898 * O'Connor, P.M. 2006. Postcranial pneumaticity: an evaluation of soft-tissue influences on the postcranial skeleton and the reconstruction of pulmonary anatomy in archosaurs. Journal of Morphology 267: 1199-1226. * Schachner, E.R., Lyson, T.R. and Dodson, P., 2009. Evolution of the respiratory system in nonavian theropods: evidence from rib and vertebral morphology. The Anatomical Record 292(9): 1501-1513. * Schachner, E.R., Farmer, C.G., McDonald, A.T. and Dodson, P., 2011. Evolution of the dinosauriform respiratory apparatus: new evidence from the postcranial axial skeleton. The Anatomical Record 294(9): 1532-1547. * Smith, Douglas H., Rodgers, Jeffrey M., Dolle, Jean-Pierre, and Wedel, Mathew J. 2022. Giraffes vs. blue whales vs. dinosaurs: contest reveals which one builds its nervous system fastest to evade predators. Scientific American, https:// www.scientificamerican.com/article/ giraffes-vs-blue-whales-vs-dinosaurs-contest-reveals-which-one-builds-its-nervous-system-fastest-to-evade-predators / * Wang, Y.Y., Claessens, L.P. and Sullivan, C., 2023. Deep reptilian evolutionary roots of a major avian respiratory adaptation. Communications Biology, 6(1), p.3. * Wedel, M.J. 2003a. Vertebral pneumaticity, air sacs, and the physiology of sauropod dinosaurs. Paleobiology 29:243-255. * Wedel, M.J. 2009. Evidence for bird-like air sacs in saurischian dinosaurs. Journal of Experimental Zoology 311A:611-628. * Wedel, M.J., and Atterholt, J. 2023. Expanded neurocentral joints in the vertebrae of sauropod dinosaurs. In Hunt-Foster, R.K., Kirkland, J.I., and Loewen, M.A. (eds), 14th Symposium on Mesozoic Terrestrial Ecosystems and Biota. The Anatomical Record 306(S1):256-257. * Wedel, M.J., and Cifelli, R.L. 2005. Sauroposeidon: Oklahoma's native giant. Oklahoma Geology Notes 65 (2):40-57. * Wedel, Mathew; Atterholt, Jessie; Dooley, Jr., Alton C.; Farooq, Saad; Macalino, Jeff; Nalley, Thierra K.; Wisser, Gary; and Yasmer, John. 2021. Expanded neural canals in the caudal vertebrae of a specimen of Haplocanthosaurus. Academia Letters, Article 911, 10pp. * Woodruff, D. Cary, Wolff, Ewan D.S., Wedel, Mathew J., Dennison, Sophie, and Witmer, Lawrence M. 2022. The first occurrence of an avian-style respiratory infection in a non-avian dinosaur. Scientific Reports 12, 1954. https://doi.org/10.1038/ s41598-022-05761-3 --------------------------------------------------------------------- doi:10.59350/ajsh7-42642 Share this: * Facebook * Reddit * Twitter * Like Loading... Related Posted by Matt Wedel Filed in brachiosaurids, cartilage, caudal, dissection, Field Museum (Chicago), Haplocanthosaurus, mounts, neural canal, neural canal ridges, pneumatic diverticula, pneumaticity, Rapetosaurus, Things I should have posted ten years ago, titanosaur 7 Comments >> 7 Responses to "If I could dissect a sauropod..." 1. [398] llewelly Says: September 12, 2024 at 12:10 pm how about the part where Dr. Joy Reidenberg cuts a hole in the whale to let out decomposition gasses. Holey crap, that must have been a whale of a smell! Of course, if you get to dissect a whale, it's worth it. By far my favorite science show, and the whale episode might be my most favorite. 2. [398] llewelly Says: September 12, 2024 at 12:27 pm With respect to the smallish pelvis of Rapetosaurus, isn't that quite unusual among archosaurs generally? (Pterosaurs are of course infamous for their tiny pelves, but I mean, other than pterosaurs.) I assume that's why you're mentioning it as noteworthy, but I feel the need to ask. 3. [6f7] Mickey Mortimer Says: September 12, 2024 at 2:11 pm "Which titanosaur? Probably Rapetosaurus" No, no, you choose Titanosaurus because then you'll know what kind of titanosaur it was and get to solve the whole nomenclatural debate. Choosing Rapetosaurus is one of the worst because we already have a set of pretty good skeletons that are well described for it, so you're wasting your genie wish. At least do a Bruhathkayosaurus to solve that for your titanosaur fix which would also be interesting for its giant size, or go for a Maraapunisaurus and get the biggest of all (known) to work with. Or nothing poofs in front of you, or a much smaller animal than Cope's work suggests, then you get a nice paper based on irrefutable genie magic to solve that issue. 4. [89e] Luke Horton Says: September 12, 2024 at 3:24 pm Dinosaur innards, if we could see them, would have been really cool and really weird was the key takeaway for me. Has anyone studied the respiratory systems of the Triassic near-dinosaurs and other reptile groups the dinos were completing with at the beginning of the Mesozoic? I wonder how or if dinosaur breathing equipment affected the survival of dinosaurs and extinction of all others in that particular mass extinction. And how it compares to the K-Pg. 5. [c6e] Dean Hester Says: September 12, 2024 at 4:47 pm I feel like the cardiovascular anatomy of the neck of any sauropod, but especially a brachiosaur would be quite interesting. It seems that's one area of anatomy we still throw up our hands and say "how did they do it?" 6. [c6e] Dean Hester Says: September 12, 2024 at 4:51 pm The cardiovascular anatomy of the neck of a large Brachiosaur would be very interesting. I feel it's one of those facets of sauropod physiology where we still just throw our hands in the air and say "who knows how they did it?". 7. [398] llewelly Says: September 12, 2024 at 10:35 pm With respect to Mickey's comment, it seems to me there's a tradeoff (or a conflict) between knowning slightly more about what you're wishing for, and getting the most for your wish; wishing for Titanosaurus definitely gets you more knowledge for your wish, partly because Titanosaurus is so poorly known (but also partly due to historical accidents of how nomenclature is done). In the hypothetical world where you actually get the wish, knowing more about your wish isn't a useful advantage, except in the sense that you want to at least know it was actually a real titanosaur, rather than some kind of mistake or hoax. However, if you're positing the wish purely because you're going to discuss your hypothetical dissection in detail, there's a kind of rhetorical advantage in choosing a well-known titanosaur; it lets you simplify out a few of the complexities that come with assuming anatomy based near relatives whose relative nearness is uncertain. (You're still stuck with all the complexities that arise from assuming anatomy based on the nearest living relatives, as that's the very anatomy you'd like to learn in the hypothetical dissection.) And when your goal is to write the essay, "getting more for your wish" isn't a real advantage. Leave a comment [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] D[ ] This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed. << I won a thing! From someone I admire! * Support SV-POW! Become a Patron! * Search Search for: [ ] [Search] * Recent Posts + If I could dissect a sauropod... + I won a thing! From someone I admire! + We're not going to run out of new anatomy anytime soon + Neural canal ridges: the director's cut + New paper: Atterholt et al. (2024) on neural canal ridges in dinosaurs * Recent Comments [39898] llewelly on If I could dissect a saur... [c6e16] Dean Hester on If I could dissect a saur... [c6e16] Dean Hester on If I could dissect a saur... [89ee4] Luke Horton on If I could dissect a saur... [6f756] Mickey Mortimer on If I could dissect a saur... * Pages + About SV-POW! + What they're saying about SV-POW! + Tutorials + The Shiny Digital Future + Things to Make and Do + Videos by SV-POW!sketeers + Human anatomy study materials + Supersaurus, Ultrasaurus and Dystylosaurus in the 21st Century + Your noun is adjective + How adjective was taxon? + Engaging with the media + Posts on Paleoart + Mike's open projects + Neural canal projects + All the Museum Abbreviations + Checklist for new zoological genus and species names [DRAFT v3] + Open Access Bio and Paleo [UNMAINTAINED] + Papers by SV-POW!sketeers o Atterholt et al (2024) on neural canal ridges in dinos o Boisvert et al (2024) on Dry Mesa Haplocanthosaurus o Wedel (2024) on sauropod bauplan and taphonomy o King et al (2024) on pneumatic ribs in apatosaurs o Windholz et al. (2024) on a pneumatic rebbachisaurid caudal o Taylor and Wedel (2023) on pneumatic Brachiosaurus ribs o Wedel and Taylor (2023) on bifurcated cervical ribs o Lei et al (2023) on theropod-bitten Morrison sauropods o Wedel and Atterholt (2023) on expanded neurocentral joints in sauropods o Aureliano et al (2023) on pneumaticity in Macrocollum o Taylor et al. (2023) on the Concrete Diplodocus of Vernal o Aureliano et al (2022) on vertebrae of early saurischians o Taylor and Wedel (2022) on vertebral orientation o Smith, Rodgers, Dolle, and Wedel (2022) on nerve growth in big animals o Vicki Wedel et al (2022) on dental cementum and age at death in humans o Atterholt and Wedel (2022) on paramedullary diverticula in birds o Woodruff et al. (2022) on respiratory infection in a sauropod o Taylor (2022) on incomplete necks o Aureliano et al. 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(2016) on moral dimensions of open o Hone, Farke, and Wedel (2016) on dinosaur ontogenetic stages o Taylor (2016) on evaluating research o Wedel et al. on apatosaur neck combat o Upchurch, Mannion and Taylor (2015) on Haestasaurus becklesii o Kraatz, Sherratt, Bumacod, and Wedel (2015) on rabbit skulls o Taylor (2014) on quantifying neck cartilage o Foster and Wedel (2014) on the Snowmass Haplocanthosaurus o Farke, Cifelli, Maxwell, and Wedel (2014) on Aquilops o Penera et al (2014) on the perforating branch of the peroneal artery o Taylor (2014 for 2004) on dinosaur diversity o Wedel and Taylor (2013b) on caudal pneumaticity o Taylor and Wedel (2013b) on neck cartilage o Wedel and Taylor (2013a) on sauropod neural spine bifurcation o Taylor and Wedel (2013a) on sauropod neck anatomy o Wedel (2012) on long nerves of sauropods o Yates, Wedel, and Bonnan (2012) on prosauropod pneumaticity o Taylor, Hone, Wedel and Naish (2011) on sexual selection of sauropod necks o Taylor, Wedel and Cifelli (2011) on Brontomerus o Taylor (2010) on the history of sauropod research o Taylor (2009) on the inevitability of electronic publishing of nomenclatural acts o Taylor (2009) on Brachiosaurus and Giraffatitan o Taylor, Wedel and Naish (2009) on neck posture o Upchurch, Martin, and Taylor (2009) on Cetiosaurus nomenclature o Wedel (2009) on air sacs o Taylor and Naish (2007) on Xenoposeidon * Categories 100% totally real Apatosaurus Art brachiosaurids Brachiosaurus caudal cervical collections diplodocids Diplodocus dorsal Giraffatitan goofy mounts museums navel blogging necks open access papers by SV-POW!sketeers pneumaticity rants Shiny digital future size stinkin' appendicular elements stinkin' heads stinkin' mammals stinkin' publishers stinkin' theropods timely titanosaur * Archives + September 2024 + August 2024 + July 2024 + June 2024 + May 2024 + April 2024 + March 2024 + February 2024 + January 2024 + December 2023 + November 2023 + October 2023 + September 2023 + August 2023 + July 2023 + June 2023 + May 2023 + April 2023 + March 2023 + February 2023 + January 2023 + December 2022 + November 2022 + October 2022 + September 2022 + August 2022 + July 2022 + June 2022 + May 2022 + April 2022 + March 2022 + February 2022 + January 2022 + December 2021 + November 2021 + October 2021 + September 2021 + August 2021 + June 2021 + May 2021 + April 2021 + March 2021 + February 2021 + January 2021 + December 2020 + November 2020 + October 2020 + September 2020 + August 2020 + July 2020 + June 2020 + May 2020 + April 2020 + March 2020 + February 2020 + January 2020 + December 2019 + November 2019 + October 2019 + September 2019 + August 2019 + July 2019 + June 2019 + May 2019 + April 2019 + March 2019 + February 2019 + January 2019 + December 2018 + November 2018 + October 2018 + September 2018 + August 2018 + July 2018 + June 2018 + May 2018 + April 2018 + March 2018 + February 2018 + January 2018 + December 2017 + November 2017 + October 2017 + September 2017 + August 2017 + July 2017 + June 2017 + May 2017 + April 2017 + March 2017 + February 2017 + January 2017 + December 2016 + November 2016 + October 2016 + September 2016 + August 2016 + July 2016 + June 2016 + May 2016 + April 2016 + March 2016 + February 2016 + January 2016 + December 2015 + November 2015 + October 2015 + September 2015 + August 2015 + July 2015 + June 2015 + May 2015 + April 2015 + March 2015 + February 2015 + January 2015 + December 2014 + November 2014 + October 2014 + September 2014 + August 2014 + July 2014 + June 2014 + May 2014 + April 2014 + March 2014 + February 2014 + January 2014 + December 2013 + November 2013 + October 2013 + September 2013 + August 2013 + July 2013 + June 2013 + May 2013 + April 2013 + March 2013 + February 2013 + January 2013 + December 2012 + November 2012 + October 2012 + September 2012 + August 2012 + July 2012 + June 2012 + May 2012 + April 2012 + March 2012 + February 2012 + January 2012 + December 2011 + November 2011 + October 2011 + September 2011 + August 2011 + July 2011 + June 2011 + May 2011 + April 2011 + March 2011 + February 2011 + January 2011 + December 2010 + November 2010 + October 2010 + September 2010 + August 2010 + July 2010 + June 2010 + May 2010 + April 2010 + March 2010 + February 2010 + January 2010 + December 2009 + November 2009 + October 2009 + September 2009 + August 2009 + July 2009 + June 2009 + May 2009 + April 2009 + March 2009 + February 2009 + January 2009 + December 2008 + November 2008 + October 2008 + September 2008 + August 2008 + July 2008 + June 2008 + May 2008 + April 2008 + March 2008 + February 2008 + January 2008 + December 2007 + November 2007 + October 2007 * Subscribe to Blog via Email Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. 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