https://www.revk.uk/2017/12/its-official-adsl-works-over-wet-string.html RevK^(r)'s ramblings 2017-12-12 It's official, ADSL works over wet string Broadband services are a wonderful innovation of our time, using multiple frequency bands (hence the name) to carry signals over wires (usually copper, sometimes aluminium). One of the key aspects of the technology is its ability to adapt to the length and characteristics of the line on which it is deployed. We have seen faults on broadband circuits that manifest as the system adapting to much lower speeds, this is a key factor as a service can work, but unusually slowly, over very bad lines. It has always been said that ADSL will work over a bit of wet string. Well one of our techies (www.aa.net.uk) took it upon himself to try it today at the office, and well done. He got some proper string, and made it wet... [DQziME8WsAAT8ZP] It turns out he needed salty water to get anywhere. A 2m length... [DQ3XL2hXcAAhodq][DQ3MsLnWsAAmJs7] And the result - it works!!! Not even that slow (31/2Mb/s down) though slow uplink. Don't dare touch the string though... [DQ3NL95XUAAabAq] So, there you go, ADSL over 2m of literal "wet string". Well done all for testing this. It shows the importance of handling faults that seem to just be "low speed". As a bonus, fit tin cans to both ends and you get voice as well as broadband on the same wet string! at December 12, 2017 # Email ThisBlogThis!Share to TwitterShare to FacebookShare to Pinterest Labels: A&A, ADSL, TECH, WET STRING 65 comments: 1. [blogger_lo] MilesTuesday 12 December 2017 at 19:13:00 GMT Great post, would love to hear more detail. Voice-Over-Mullers could be huge, you could corner the market ReplyDelete Replies 1. [blank] AnonymousThursday 14 December 2017 at 19:51:00 GMT Is there going to be a patent? Delete Replies Reply Reply 2. [IMG_3465] RevKTuesday 12 December 2017 at 19:14:00 GMT Apologies, someone posted and I clicked delete by mistake: Firstly, that's awesome, I love it. Your office is basically a hackspace. Secondly, congrats, you're on the front page of Hackernews. ReplyDelete Replies Reply 3. [blogger_lo] JaimeTuesday 12 December 2017 at 19:20:00 GMT ADSL is now considered like old tech but actually it has evolved incredibly during the years and has solved uncountable engineering challenges. This post was really surprising and interesting to read. ReplyDelete Replies Reply 4. [blogger_lo] rubycodezTuesday 12 December 2017 at 19:34:00 GMT Yes conductor will make wave guide, though to improve could put insulator between them to get them closer. Even better to twist the salty wet strings and insulation between them to have less leakage (salty wet twisted pair) ReplyDelete Replies Reply 5. [blank] AnonymousTuesday 12 December 2017 at 19:59:00 GMT Wonderful. Now telcos will install string as a cost cutting measure to increase profits. ReplyDelete Replies 1. [blank] AnonymousTuesday 12 December 2017 at 20:33:00 GMT Especially in rainy climates. Delete Replies Reply 2. [blank] Chris BlakeWednesday 13 December 2017 at 17:51:00 GMT You say it as if that's not an upgrade what most of them already use Delete Replies Reply 3. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 17:53:00 GMT Finally, the salty tears of their customers will be put to good use..! Delete Replies Reply 4. [IMG_3465] RevKWednesday 13 December 2017 at 17:58:00 GMT I believe someone said on an internal chat "the salty tears of Amber Rudd" at one point. But marmite was also suggested as an electrolyte. Delete Replies Reply 5. [blogger_lo] HughWednesday 13 December 2017 at 22:41:00 GMT Gives a whole new meaning to a 'ropey' broadband service. Delete Replies Reply Reply 6. [blank] GeorgeTuesday 12 December 2017 at 20:38:00 GMT That takes me back to my days in the Royal Signals! ReplyDelete Replies Reply 7. [blogger_lo] wowfirstsTuesday 12 December 2017 at 21:57:00 GMT How did you pin the rj45s with limo wet string? How long did you soak the string for? Is there a step by step procedure I can do? How can the string carry 5 volts? What about ground? How did you twist the string? Wire twisting, well you know all this I am sure you got it all figured out and are able to show the procedures in an in depth article. ReplyDelete Replies 1. [IMG_3465] RevKWednesday 13 December 2017 at 00:41:00 GMT Well we could, but also the pictures show most of the answers (crock clips, etc). Delete Replies Reply 2. [IMG_3465] RevKWednesday 13 December 2017 at 00:42:00 GMT Also, where does the 5 volts come in? Delete Replies Reply 3. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 16:56:00 GMT In this case, no "RJ45" (or 8p8c) connecters were used. The connection from the DSLAM went to a telephone socket, then to an ADSL filter, and then to an RJ11 cable which has had one end cut off, and stripped, to connect directly to crocodile clips. It was these croc clips that interfaced to the string. At the other end, the test leads of the xDSL testset were designed to connect onto clips. In this test, there was no voltage present on the pair - this is commonly called a "dry pair". No ground was connected, as DSL runs over the A and B leg of a pair and doesn't need to care for the ground. Performance could have likely been improved by twisting the pairs. Delete Replies Reply 4. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 20:02:00 GMT "Dry pair" on a "wet line". Delete Replies Reply Reply 8. [blank] AnonymousTuesday 12 December 2017 at 22:05:00 GMT So how come the $#@! ADSL lines go down whenever it get's wet. Eventually I gave up on the damn thing and went with fiber and haven't looked back since. Alas, for various reasons I'm forced to play with it again..... ...because somebody has deployed it in a wet place. ReplyDelete Replies 1. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 23:37:00 GMT Not enough salt in the rain obviously. Delete Replies Reply 2. [blogger_lo] UnknownFriday 22 December 2017 at 14:19:00 GMT Corrosion on the copper line. I had that every year, it was so annoying. Delete Replies Reply Reply 9. [blogger_lo] Chad HTuesday 12 December 2017 at 22:35:00 GMT Great. Now you're gunna give OpenReach ideas... ReplyDelete Replies 1. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 23:39:00 GMT Saw Openreach pulling in blue rope only last week. When asked, they said it was to improve internet speeds. Delete Replies Reply Reply 10. [blogger_lo] jelvTuesday 12 December 2017 at 23:03:00 GMT As you posted, people say the ADSL will work over "A piece of wet string". Your picture shows he used two pieces of wet string. ADSL will continue working (badly) with one leg disconnected so I suggest further testing is required! ReplyDelete Replies 1. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 16:13:00 GMT Once both legs dried out, the JDSU did attempt handshaking when only one leg was wetted. It never completed negotiation though - I think the attenuation on 2 metres of this particular type of string is just a bit too high. Delete Replies Reply Reply 11. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 01:28:00 GMT They were too busy wondering if they could, to think if they should... Lol jk this is awesome, suddenly I realise what internode in Brisbane are using. ReplyDelete Replies Reply 12. [blank] Jose Manuel Navarro Benavente, CESIDWednesday 13 December 2017 at 01:48:00 GMT Doing it like as Telefonica from the catacombs... Test it with dental floss under a solution of propanol with silica gel. Probably the results will be better. ReplyDelete Replies Reply 13. [blogger_lo] UnknownWednesday 13 December 2017 at 06:27:00 GMT Literally faster than the ADSL2+ service to my home. Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 443 / 2,258 ReplyDelete Replies 1. [blogger_lo] JohnWednesday 13 December 2017 at 09:37:00 GMT At least yours is better than Talk Talk could provide to my mother. Her downstream was capped at 1024 Kbps. (Now with A& A, and running at 11 Mbps, over the same line.) Delete Replies Reply Reply 14. [blogger_lo] SteveWednesday 13 December 2017 at 09:15:00 GMT Is that string BABT approved telephone equipment? ;p ReplyDelete Replies 1. [IMG_3465] RevKWednesday 13 December 2017 at 09:18:00 GMT LOL, those were the days :-) Delete Replies Reply 2. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 23:42:00 GMT No red triangle on the string, so I'm sure it's approved apparatus. Delete Replies Reply Reply 15. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 10:18:00 GMT By remarkable coincidence, here's some ethernet over barbed wire: http://www.sigcon.com/Pubs/edn/SoGoodBarbedWire.htm ReplyDelete Replies 1. [blogger_lo] UnknownSaturday 16 December 2017 at 11:35:00 GMT I remember a similar demonstrations Delete Replies Reply Reply 16. [xia-80x96] XiatianWednesday 13 December 2017 at 11:00:00 GMT Can you lads test VDSL2 over the same string? ReplyDelete Replies 1. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 16:52:00 GMT Given the losses on ADSL (see https://twitter.com/0x47DF/ status/940634277967990784 for bingraphs) with a large number of bins going unused, it looks unlikely that a VDSL sync could be attained on this string currently. Delete Replies Reply Reply 17. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 11:15:00 GMT Is this the new PPPoWS protocol? ReplyDelete Replies Reply 18. [blank] Andreas NordenstamWednesday 13 December 2017 at 11:31:00 GMT Here's 50+ mbps VDSL over banana...: http://nordenstam.org/17/bananledere.jpg http://nordenstam.org/17/banansync.jpg Cheers! ;) ReplyDelete Replies 1. [blogger_lo] UnknownThursday 14 December 2017 at 13:22:00 GMT That's faster than what I have at home! Delete Replies Reply Reply 19. [blogger_lo] UnknownWednesday 13 December 2017 at 13:11:00 GMT Dont't let the ITU see this - they'll want to invent a wet-string-encoding-profile with gratuitous incompatibility... ReplyDelete Replies Reply 20. [blogger_lo] UnknownWednesday 13 December 2017 at 13:36:00 GMT Don't cross the streams! ReplyDelete Replies Reply 21. [blogger_lo] gbmWednesday 13 December 2017 at 14:31:00 GMT Take a look to PJON, it works through the human body :) ReplyDelete Replies Reply 22. [Dan_Upload] Dan SuttonWednesday 13 December 2017 at 16:04:00 GMT Q: What do you do when your internet connection fails? A: We piss on it! ReplyDelete Replies 1. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 16:50:00 GMT Piss sounds like it could work quite well. There may be some health and safety issues around testing this however. Delete Replies Reply Reply 23. [blogger_lo] UnknownWednesday 13 December 2017 at 18:09:00 GMT That's not the kind of wet string I was picturing when seeing the url for the first time. Good job though, well done ! :) Now.. off to find the other kind... ReplyDelete Replies Reply 24. [blank] AnonymousWednesday 13 December 2017 at 21:45:00 GMT Well that's the best use I've ever seen of those awful Herman Miller chairs. PS1,000 each of uncomfortable un-ergonomic rubbish. ReplyDelete Replies Reply 25. [blogger_lo] Peter WatsonThursday 14 December 2017 at 10:33:00 GMT I see the BBC picked up on it as well - as a news story! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42338067 ReplyDelete Replies Reply 26. [blogger_lo] DavidThursday 14 December 2017 at 12:13:00 GMT Awesome experiment! As someone who installs/repairs ADSL2+/VDSL2/ GPON on a daily basis, I absolutely loved reading this! So how far from the DSLAM are you actually? Just curious how much loop length that wet string adds. Also did you take any CRC/CV errors? Next you'll have to strap the tip and ring together and test the resistance of the wet string. ReplyDelete Replies 1. [IMG_3465] RevKThursday 14 December 2017 at 12:23:00 GMT We have a DSLAM in the office, so almost entirely wet string involved. Not sure were we are with errors yet, I think some real work got in the way. Delete Replies Reply 2. [blogger_lo] DavidThursday 14 December 2017 at 12:31:00 GMT Well that answers my question about resistance over wet string: not all that conductive. I won't be taking this solution back to the board meeting! Guess we will have keep experimenting with magic spells!! That's what the customers seem to think after our sales tell them "it's all wireless now...." Delete Replies Reply 3. [blogger_lo] SteveThursday 14 December 2017 at 16:40:00 GMT Dare I ask how much a DSLAM costs?.. Delete Replies Reply 4. [IMG_3465] RevKThursday 14 December 2017 at 16:43:00 GMT It is a tiny little ZyXEL one, and I forget how much, sorry. Google it :-) Delete Replies Reply 5. [blogger_lo] DavidThursday 14 December 2017 at 16:49:00 GMT An Alcatel Lucent 7330 VDSL2/ADSL2+ DSLAM costs about US$100,000. Those can feed 384 pairs per DSLAM. Delete Replies Reply 6. [blogger_lo] Chris StithThursday 14 December 2017 at 21:32:00 GMT Depending on the maker, model, features, and number of ports a DSLAM is a few hundred US dollars to a couple hundred thousand US dollars. I've seen two-port SOHO models and then there's the carrier grade stuff David addresses. Delete Replies Reply 7. [blank] AnonymousMonday 18 December 2017 at 17:30:00 GMT The copper leg from DSLAM to desk is, at a rough guess, around 15 metres as we had to come from the other side of the office where the DSLAM lived, although loss on 15 metres should be negligible. And yep, plenty of CRC errors there. If there's a way to balance the pair better, and twist it, these could perhaps be reduced a little. Delete Replies Reply Reply 27. [blank] AnonymousThursday 14 December 2017 at 14:36:00 GMT Quiet day in the office was it lads? ReplyDelete Replies Reply 28. [blogger_lo] ChadFThursday 14 December 2017 at 21:22:00 GMT As if kids weren't spoiled enough nowadays, getting a tablet and/ or smartphone before they are 5 years old. Now they're gonna want string broadband installed in their tree-forts too. ;) ReplyDelete Replies Reply 29. [blank] AnonymousFriday 15 December 2017 at 03:00:00 GMT Fix yer snr and the uplink speed will be better. Try something with vectoring and let it cook for a month or two and see if it gets better? That would mean keeping the string wet for a month...the HST 3000 is kind of stacking the deck though ;) Looks like fun ReplyDelete Replies 1. [IMG_3465] RevKFriday 15 December 2017 at 04:46:00 GMT I can't see vectoring helping Delete Replies Reply Reply 30. [blank] AnonymousFriday 15 December 2017 at 09:21:00 GMT For your next test please match the string impedance to 600 ohms. Well done.... ReplyDelete Replies Reply 31. [blogger_lo] hamradioalSunday 17 December 2017 at 15:31:00 GMT Haha! I'd wager a bet that wet string works a lot better than the rotten old phone lines that provide my ADSL of sorts. Good one! ReplyDelete Replies Reply 32. [blank] AnonymousMonday 18 December 2017 at 12:49:00 GMT Sounds like a new revenue stream for BT... ReplyDelete Replies Reply 33. [blogger_lo] Bobby VassalloWednesday 25 April 2018 at 15:52:00 BST 3 1/2 megs? That's better than AT&T can do in a Red State! ReplyDelete Replies Reply 34. [blogger_lo] Dan QMonday 22 March 2021 at 15:12:00 GMT When I discovered this, I was delighted to see that it had been done. Even more delighted that it was you guys who did it. But what would really impress me would be sending a network signal down a piece of string ACOUSTICALLY. Proper tin-cans-and-string style. My first thought was just to hook up acoustic couplers to both ends, but I suspect that the acoustic properties of string are probably different from those of a TVM-modulated wave down a copper wire. Plus you'd probably want the handshake to be used to detect tone variance resulting from ambient conditions, such as how wet (and/or salty) the string was. In short: doing this acoustically would be a much harder problem, and I'd love to see it done! (I smell a 1 April RFC brewing...) ReplyDelete Replies Reply 35. [blogger_lo] Scary LerieSaturday 4 December 2021 at 17:26:00 GMT shouldnt it work for anything that carries a current? ReplyDelete Replies Reply 36. [blogger_lo] lodewijkadlpSunday 5 December 2021 at 11:18:00 GMT Although the tester has me misconfident. Sure it can line measure, can it stream a cat video? ReplyDelete Replies Reply Add comment Load more... Comments are moderated purely to filter out obvious spam, but it means they may not show immediately. Newer Post Older Post Home Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom) Debugging There are lots of ways to debug stuff, but at the end of the day it is all a bit of a detective story. Looking for clues, testing an hypothe... [IMG_5074] * [DQziME8WsA] It's official, ADSL works over wet string Broadband services are a wonderful innovation of our time, using multiple frequency bands (hence the name) to carry signals over wires (us... * [AJKL8678] Air conditioning at home (planning permission!) For many years I used a small stand-alone air-conditioning unit in my study (the box room in the house) and I even had a hole in the wall fo... * [eicar] EICAR test QR It seems there is something of a standard test string for anti virus ( wikipedia has more on this). The idea is that systems that look fo... Search This Blog [ ] [Search] * Home About Me My photo RevK 10x geek, techie, occasional expert, a bit tactless. Oh, and I run an ISP. 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negative power * Neopixel * nerd * NET NEUTRALITY * new toy * NEWS * NFC * nGEN * NHS * NHS COVID-19 App * NOMINET * norfolk broads * Norway * NORWEGIAN JADE * NOSTALGIA * not amazon * not NFTs * NTG2 * NTP * Numbers * NX Witness * NXP * O2 * octopus * OFCOM * off grid * OFGEM * OFQUAL * OLED * Ombudsman * ONLINE * Online safety bill. * open() * OpenBanking * OPENREACH * OPENSCAD * ORVILLE * OSB * OSGB * OTA * PAC * PAINTING * Panama * PAPER TAPE * PAPER TAPE. * PAPERCLIP * Passthrough * password * pay.uk monzo confirmation of payee * PAYEE NAME CHECKS * PCB * PCB layout * PCB milling * PCBTrain * PDF * PECR * PEDANTRY * PEDO * PEI * PEN PAPER ENCRYPTION * PERSONAL * Petition * PFIZER * PGP * pH * Pheonix Contact * PHILOSOPHY * phlebotomy * Phoenix Contact * PHONE * PHONE LINE * photo * PHOTOGRAPHY * Photoshop * PI * Picard * pin out * pipelines * Piquet * PIZZA HUT * PLANNING * PLANNING PERMISSION. * Playing cards * please enter a valid email address * PLUMBING * PN532 * PNG * PoE * 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X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7}$EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE! $H+H* * xid8600 * xid9300 * xkcd * XMAS * XML * Y2K * yesterday shipping * zigbee * p * (c) Copyright 2009-2021 Rev Adrian Kennard. 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