https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=63820 Language Log * Home * About * Comments policy Winged lions through time and space May 4, 2024 @ 6:45 pm * Filed by Victor Mair under Borrowing, Epigraphy, Language and archeology, Language and culture, Language and history, Language contact << previous post | next post >> We're talking about the griffin / griffon / gryphon (Ancient Greek: grups, romanized: gryps; Classical Latin: gryps or grypus; Late and Medieval Latin: gryphes, grypho etc.; Old French: griffon), "a legendary creature with the body, tail, and back legs of a lion, and the head and wings of an eagle with its talons on the front legs". ( source) Wolfgang Behr called my attention to an interesting paper by Olga Gorodetskaya (Guo Jingyun Guo Jing Yun ) and Lixin Guo Guo Li Xin , who teach at National Chung-cheng University in Chiayi, Taiwan and at Sun Yat-sen University in Guangzhou, China, which hints at early West-East (Mesopotamia-East Asia) contact, an ongoing concern of ours here at Language Log: Liang he liuyu anzu shenying zai diguo shiqi de yanbian ji yingshi yishou xingxiang de xingcheng Liang He Liu Yu An Zu Shen Ying Zai Di Guo Shi Qi De Yan Bian Ji Ying Shi Yi Shou Xing Xiang De Xing Cheng "The evolution of the Anzu condor in Mesopotamia during the imperial period and the formation of the image of the griffin-winged beast The paper is available from Academia here. Although the text is in Chinese (11 pages of small print in three columns), it is replete with scores of illustrations (mostly drawings of seals and seal impressions), and has a lengthy bibliography consisting of dozens of publications, mostly in European languages and again mostly about seals and their impressions. Abstract From the Akkadian Empire to the Neo-Assyrian Empire, new ethnic groups continued to enter and gain control over Mesopotamia. Political changes brought about shifts in the religious system, causing the decline of the belief in Anzu, the lion-headed eagle in Sumerian civilization. The image of Anzu underwent a transformation from a flying gryphon to a gryphon with the characteristics of eagle wings and talons. Its religious connotation also developed in a negative direction, becoming a monster that causes a great flood or steals the book of life, requiring gods or heroes to overcome, control, shoot. or subdue it. In the context of this era of changing beliefs, ancient sacred beasts are seen as pseudo-beliefs that need to be overcome. [Key words] Anzusia, ancient beliefs, eagle worship, lion worship, personal god (GT translation with modifications) During the first millennia BC and AD, we find parallel beliefs and images all the way across Eurasia. One of the most conspicuous is the pixiu Pi Xiu (Old Sinitic [Zhengzhang)] /*bi qku/). Not only do these hybrid creatures have an alien appearance, their binomial name sounds non-Sinitic. Pixiu Pi Xiu are important as architectural ornaments and stone sculpture (often monumental) already from the Han period (202 BC-9 AD; 25-220 AD) for their supposed apotropaic properties. See also bixie Pi Xie ("a chimaera-like figure common in Chinese and Persian art") and its homophone bixie Bi Xie ("ward off evil spirits"). Olga Gorodetskaya is said to be a controversial figure in the PRC. Judging from the article surveyed above, it is not too hard to guess why. Below, let us take a look at a review of a major book of hers that reveals more aspects of her archeohistorical stance that might prove problematic for nationalistic investigators. Jiang Guanghui Jiang Yan Hui , "Zhongguo wenming de yuantou shi beifang haishi nanfang Zhong Guo Wen Ming De Yuan Tou Shi Bei Fang Huan Shi Nan Fang " ("Is the origin of Chinese civilization in the north or the south?"), Zhonghua dushu bao <> (12/4/13), 10: The content of the 500,000-word book, Xia, Shang and Zhou: From Myth to Historical Fact, before me is not as romantic as the title. The whole book is almost a collection of archaeological briefings in recent decades, but the system of the book, the views and conclusions, are extremely explosive and shocking. I cannot specifically predict how many scholars will oppose or support its main points after the book is published, but it will undoubtedly cause huge repercussions and shocks in the academic world. Did ancient Chinese civilization first originate in the Jianghan-Huaihe River Basin and then spread from south to north; or did it first originate in the Yellow River Basin and then spread from north to south? The view of this book is that it is the former, which is very different from the traditional view, but it is true. It is reasonable and well-founded. Scholarship prior to the Qing Dynasty's research on China's ancient history before the Western Zhou Dynasty was basically based on a few handed-down documents such as Sima Qian's Historical Records of the Han Dynasty. Historical Records begins with "Basic Annals of the Five Emperors". The five emperors are Huangdi (Yellow Emperor), Zhuanxu, Emperor Ku, Yao, and Shun; the second is "Benji of Xia", which first talks about Dayu; the third is "Benji of Yin". The centers of political activities of Yao, Shun, Xia, and Shang are generally considered to be in today's Shanxi and Henan. Thanks to the discovery and research of oracle bone inscriptions over the past hundred years, the academic community has gained a reliable understanding of the history of the Yin/Shang Dynasty. However, as for the history of the Xia Dynasty, the academic community is still at a loss due to the lack of written evidence of the corresponding era. When the Erlitou site in Yanshi, Henan was excavated in the middle of the last century, academic circles defined it as an urban site from the Xia Dynasty to the early Shang Dynasty. Such an ancient history research background makes scholars take it for granted that the spread path of China's ancient civilization was from the north to the south. Later discovered sites in the Yangtze River basin similar to the Erlitou culture were interpreted by scholars as the spread of Xia and Shang culture to the south. This book quotes [archeology official] Qiao Yu's opinions and puts forward a different view: research on the population and land utilization around Erlitou shows that the population and settlement density there have always been very thin, and the land utilization is also very low. Erlitou belongs to a farming culture. With enough farmland and residential areas, the agricultural society lacked the motivation to expand outwards; there were not many weapons at the Erlitou site, and there were no ethnic groups that made a living by war. How did they expand their influence outwards? After the discovery of ancient city sites such as Qujialing and Shijiahe in Hubei, the prototype of an ancient united city-state in the Han River Basin has emerged. In other words, the Jianghan Plain had formed a complete national civilization before the Bronze Age. The so-called "Erlitou Culture" is actually the cultural aspect produced by the Hanshui Civilization in the Bronze Age and affected the Zhengluo area, mainly originating from the south. Archeology has proven that civilization in ancient China did not spread from north to south, but from south to north. The legendary holy kings and heroes such as Yao, Shun, and Yu are the result of the merger of myths from different traditional sources. Shun and Yu were not originally heroes born in the north. For example, Shun was called "Lord of the Xiang" in The Songs of Chu, and his two wives were called "Lady Xiang". They were all regarded as the gods of the Xiang River, and the Xiang River was the the southern part of the Qujialing cultural range. Thr Historical Records says that the ancestor of Chu came from Zhuanxu, while the Bamboo Chronicles records the genealogy of the holy king and says: "Zhuanxu gave birth to Bo Gun." Gun is the father of Dayu. In this way, Dayu was originally the ancestor and hero of the Chu people. . Huainanzi "Benjing" says: "At the time of Shun, Gonggong raised the flood...Shun then asked Yu to dredge the three rivers and five lakes, open up Yique, guide the Xianjian, level the land, and so that the waters could flow into the Eastern Sea." "Three rivers" and "Five Lakes" are not northern scenery. In contrast, in the north, the risk of floods in the Wei and Fen river basins was very low. The climate in the middle reaches of the Yellow River is quite dry, and there was an obvious tendency toward aridity in the north during the Xia era. Therefore, it is difficult for Weifen or Zhengluo areas to create the myth of water control. The author believes that the center of political activities of the Xia Dynasty should be in the south. Specifically, it is most likely to be in the Xia River in Hubei (see Shui Jing Zhu (Annotations on the Classic of Waters), now named Changxia River. According to Shui Jing Zhu, the lower reaches of the Han River were all known as "Xia River"), and it was located in the Jianghan Plain. Many ancient cities in Qujialing and Shijiahe stood near the Xia River. In ancient times, due to the topography, there were frequent floods here. Water control was in great need, and the ancestors of Qujialing indeed had already devised the engineering system for water control was. In this case, why don't we regard the city sites such as Dengjiawan or Jingnan Temple as the Xia Kingdom where Dayu controlled water? The author also proposes that among the civilizations before the Yin-Shang Dynasty, there existed a pre-Chu civilization. Its scale, tradition and degree of nationalization were probably the highest and most glorious among all ancient civilization groups at that time. This means that the cultural tradition of Chu should be older than that of other countries, especially earlier than the tradition of Shang and Zhou rulers who came from the north to the south. So, why is the history we see today not like this? And the original history is missing? The author believes that the history handed down to the world is often written by the victors, which is bound to be mixed with the ideas based on the victors. The ideology of viewpoints even obscures the truth of the original history. The era when these handed down documents were written began in the Zhou Dynasty, and they were recorded using the characters of the Yin and Zhou civilizations, so they must represent the position of the northern ethnic group from which the nobles of the Yin and Zhou Dynasties came. Judging from the development process of various cultures in China, the northern ethnic groups developed later and their history is relatively young. From the Yin and Zhou dynasties, they gradually promoted the vast city-states into a unified political power and became the so-called "winners" of history. Therefore, they also have the right to express history and can write a history that promotes their own power and "virtue" and pass it down to the world. They borrowed the ancient myths of the southern ethnic groups and regarded Shun and Yu as the holy kings of their own ethnic group. But even so, in the orthodox history centered on the north, there are still clues that allow us to discover that the ancient south was actually civilized earlier than the north. In other words, although the mythology we generally recognize today seems to be a unified history at first glance, in fact, the original source of each mythical story and sacred hero in it is probably the result of the intersection and merging of the sacred histories of many different ethnic groups. The above is the main line and theme of this book. Although these views are bold and shocking, they are not whimsical arguments, but are put forward by what I think is a serious and rigorous academic work. After this book is published, it will inevitably be criticized or criticized, and it may even be "beaten black and blue", but I believe that this book will become an immortal historical masterpiece. In the past hundred years of Chinese historical research, our academic community has been lacking this kind of historical research works that combine dense data with big thinking methods. Its significance is not mainly whether the conclusions in the book are completely consistent with historical reality, but that in the face of those cultural relics without written records, we cannot only use the limited handed down documents as the frame of reference for interpreting them, but should rely on the hard work of the historian to interpret them. The hard work of the author has created a new frame of reference that is helpful for analyzing possibilities. We should not only use the limited number of handed down documents as a frame of reference for interpreting [the archeologically recovered cultural relics], but should rely on the hard work of historians to create a new frame of reference for them that is conducive to the analysis of possibilities. (GT translation with modifications) (citation courtesy of Petya Andreeva) Both the dispersal of the winged lion across Eurasia and the radical reenvisioning of the development of Chinese history as having much more to do with the south than traditional accounts would have it possess important implications for future research on East Asian civilization and language. It will take many years to reassess these new insights. Meanwhile, they have already helped me understand better problems that have puzzled me for decades, such as why the first poet in Chinese history known by name (Qu Yuan [339-278 BC]) came from the south, why the vast majority of archeologically recovered classical period manuscripts have been recovered in the south (esp. Chu), why the founder of the epochal Han dynasty (206 BC-220 AD), Liu Bang (256-195 BC), and his closest competitor, Xiang Yu (232-202 BC), in defeating the brief (221-207 BC) eponymous (for "China") far (over 1,000 km) northwestern, semi-barbarian Qin dynasty dz@n Qin (Old Sinitic Minimal [OSM] reconstructed pronunciation) were both from the same southern state of Chu where the first Sinitic / Hannic poet came from. Perhaps we should henceforth refer to "China" (< Qin) as "Tshraq" (OSM of "Chu"). The Sinoglyph for Tshraq / Chu is Chu . [60px-] oracle bone form [60px-] Western Zhou bronze inscriptional form The word is of Mon-Khmer derivation and had the meaning "thorn". Source: Axel Schuessler 2007, 2009 And we should look more intensively and extensively at words like p ixiu Pi Xiu ("winged lion-like chimera"), bixie Pi Xie ("a chimaera-like figure common in Chinese and Persian art"), and its homophone bixie Bi Xie ("ward off evil spirits"), to go beyond the pathbreaking work of Jerry Norman and Tsu-Lin Mei in demonstrating Sinitic borrowing from Austro-Asiatic. Selected readings * "Revelation: Scythians and Shang" (6/4/23) * "Horses, soma, riddles, magi, and animal style art in southern China" (11/11/19) * "China Babel" (3/26/24) -- Southwest Bronze Road; Shimao and long distance cultural transmission; Scythian linkage of Eurasian nomadic societies * Victor H. Mair, with contributions by E. Bruce Brooks, "Was There a Xia Dynasty?", Sino-Platonic Papers, 239 (May, 2013), 39 pages. * Andrew Chittick, "Vernacular Languages in the Medieval Jiankang Empire", 250 (July, 2014), 25 pages. * Norman, Jerry; Mei, Tsu-lin (1976). "The Austroasiatics in Ancient South China: Some Lexical Evidence" (PDF). Monumenta Serica. 32: 274-301. JSTOR 40726203. * "What is the difference between a dragon and a /lUNG35/?" (2/10/ 24) * "The foreign origins of the lion dance and words for 'lion' in Sinitic" (1/14/22) -- "Nearly every government building in China is guarded by a pair of lions flanking the front door. The same is true of major banks and other public buildings and even private houses in many other countries around the world. This is a custom that may be traced back to Hattusa, the capital of the Hittite empire (c. 1650 BC-c. 1178 BC), where an imposing pair of lions guards the gateway leading to the palace. Bear in mind that Hittite is the oldest attestable Indo-European language, older yet than Tocharian and Sanskrit." * Mayor, Adrienne (2011) [2000]. The First Fossil Hunters: Dinosaurs, Mammoths, and Myth in Greek and Roman Times. Princeton University Press. ISBN 978-0691150130. * Mayor, Adrienne (2022). Flying Snakes and Griffin Claws. Princeton University Press. ISBN 0691211183. * Mayor, Adrienne; Heaney, Michael (1993). "Griffins and Arimaspeans". Folklore. 104 (1-2): 40-66. doi:10.1080/ 0015587X.1993.9715853. JSTOR 1260795. May 4, 2024 @ 6:45 pm * Filed by Victor Mair under Borrowing, Epigraphy, Language and archeology, Language and culture, Language and history, Language contact Permalink --------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 Comments >> 1. Martin Schwartz said, May 4, 2024 @ 7:32 pm The Wiki "Griffin" mentions the possibility (which I like) of Greekgrups (gryps) coming from Heb. k(e)rub or similar Semitic form referring to a composite critter Moreoverf, Middle West Iranian, asthe article indicates, shows a word paskuc or baskuc for a composited critter; given iconographic realia, this may be a Scythic word. for which I can think of an Iranian etymology *'loathesome'. Is there any chance that pi xiu goes back to such a word? Martin Schwartz 2. Terry Hunt said, May 5, 2024 @ 4:08 am I read some time ago that the original idea of griffins/gryphons may have been based on very early discoveries of fossils of Protoceratops and similar beaked dinosaurs: Wikipedia tells me that this has been suggested by "Adrienne Mayor, a classical folklorist and historian of science" and the author of your last three 'Selected readings'. Might the likely locations of such possible discoveries (modern science first found them in the Gobi desert) contribute to calculating the geographical origins of early cultures that first mention griffins? Apparently Mayor has concentrated on the idea originating in a Greek milieu, but I suspect it is older, perhaps considerably so, and passed to early PIE speakers from further East. 3. David Marjanovic said, May 5, 2024 @ 10:13 am Surely "condor" is a mistranslation? I've read Mayor's book; she very much talks about Scythians, it's just that the Scythians didn't write, so for an early description of a griffin Greek is your best bet. The geography is a bit vague, though; the southern Gobi is not where the gold is that the griffins are supposed to be guarding. 4. Victor Mair said, May 5, 2024 @ 11:27 am Adrienne Mayor reads Language Log. Perhaps she will answer some of your questions. RSS feed for comments on this post Leave a Comment [ ] Name (required) [ ] E-mail (required, never displayed) [ ] URI [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [Submit Comment] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] D[ ] * Follow us on Twitter * [ ] [Search] Archives [+/-] * + May 2024 + April 2024 + March 2024 + February 2024 + January 2024 + December 2023 + November 2023 + October 2023 + September 2023 + August 2023 + July 2023 + June 2023 + May 2023 + April 2023 + March 2023 + February 2023 + January 2023 + December 2022 + November 2022 + October 2022 + September 2022 + August 2022 + July 2022 + June 2022 + May 2022 + April 2022 + March 2022 + February 2022 + January 2022 + December 2021 + November 2021 + October 2021 + September 2021 + August 2021 + July 2021 + June 2021 + May 2021 + April 2021 + March 2021 + February 2021 + January 2021 + December 2020 + November 2020 + October 2020 + September 2020 + August 2020 + July 2020 + June 2020 + May 2020 + April 2020 + March 2020 + February 2020 + January 2020 + December 2019 + November 2019 + October 2019 + September 2019 + August 2019 + July 2019 + June 2019 + May 2019 + April 2019 + March 2019 + February 2019 + January 2019 + December 2018 + November 2018 + October 2018 + September 2018 + August 2018 + July 2018 + June 2018 + May 2018 + April 2018 + March 2018 + February 2018 + January 2018 + December 2017 + November 2017 + October 2017 + September 2017 + August 2017 + July 2017 + June 2017 + May 2017 + April 2017 + March 2017 + February 2017 + January 2017 + December 2016 + November 2016 + October 2016 + September 2016 + August 2016 + July 2016 + June 2016 + May 2016 + April 2016 + March 2016 + February 2016 + January 2016 + December 2015 + November 2015 + October 2015 + September 2015 + August 2015 + July 2015 + June 2015 + May 2015 + April 2015 + March 2015 + February 2015 + January 2015 + December 2014 + November 2014 + October 2014 + September 2014 + August 2014 + July 2014 + June 2014 + May 2014 + April 2014 + March 2014 + February 2014 + January 2014 + December 2013 + November 2013 + October 2013 + September 2013 + August 2013 + July 2013 + June 2013 + May 2013 + April 2013 + March 2013 + February 2013 + January 2013 + December 2012 + November 2012 + October 2012 + September 2012 + August 2012 + July 2012 + June 2012 + May 2012 + April 2012 + March 2012 + February 2012 + January 2012 + December 2011 + November 2011 + October 2011 + September 2011 + August 2011 + July 2011 + June 2011 + May 2011 + April 2011 + March 2011 + February 2011 + January 2011 + December 2010 + November 2010 + October 2010 + September 2010 + August 2010 + July 2010 + June 2010 + May 2010 + April 2010 + March 2010 + February 2010 + January 2010 + December 2009 + November 2009 + October 2009 + September 2009 + August 2009 + July 2009 + June 2009 + May 2009 + April 2009 + March 2009 + February 2009 + January 2009 + December 2008 + November 2008 + October 2008 + September 2008 + August 2008 + July 2008 + June 2008 + May 2008 + April 2008 * [Posts before 4/8/2008 are here] [Search old posts here] Blogroll [+/-] * + "Spoken language expert's exuberant life of science" + ...And read all over + A Linguist Goes to Law School + A Roguish Chrestomathy + A Walk in the WoRds + A Way With Words + Abecedaria + Alex's phonetic thoughts + All Things Linguistic + Anggarrgoon + Archival Sounds (British Library) + Arrant Pedantry + Ask the League of Nerds + Babel's Dawn (Edmund Blair Bolles) + Bad Language + BadLinguistics (Pauline Foster) + Between the Lines with Edwin Battistella + Blogamundo + Bradshaw of the Future + Bremer sprachblog + Building Rapport + Bulbulovo + Career Linguist + Child's Play + Citizen sociolinguistics + clinicallinguistics + Coby Lubliner's Blog + Cognition And Language Lab + Colorless Green Ideas + Conjugate Visits + DCblog (David Crystal) + Degelka af soomaaliga + Descriptively Adequate + dialect blog + Dictionary Evangelist + Dictionary Society of North America + Double-Tongued Dictionary + Ed Absurdum + Eggcorn Database + Endangered Languages and Cultures + English, Jack + Epea Pteroenta + Eternally Stressed Semanticist + Everything You Know About English Is Wrong + Evolving English + Far Outliers + Found in Translation + Freemorpheme + Fritinancy + Fully (sic) + Good Reason + Gordon P. Hemsley + Greater Blogazonia + Hanzi Smatter Yi Zhi Ban Jie + Harmless Drudgery + HeadsUp: The Blog + https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/ spoken-language-expert-s-exuberant-life-of-science-20220916-p5birk.html + Idibon + Isabella Massardo Copy & Translation + Jabal al-Lughat + John Wells's Phonetic Blog + Johnson + JoshMillard.com + Keywords + Langguj Gel + Language Evolution + Language Geek + Language Hat + Language Is The People's + Language Jones + Language Trainers Blog + Language: A Feminist Guide + Lathophobic Aphasia + LAWnLinguistics + LGSA Fledgelings + Lingformant + Lingua Franca + Linguaphiles + Linguism + Linguistics Anonymous + Linguistrix + Literal-Minded + Living Languages + Logomacy + Logophilius + Making Noise and Hearing Things + Matjjin-nehen + Mental Floss (language section) + Metrolingua + Michael Erard + Motivated Grammar + Mr. Verb + Naked Translations + Natural Language Processing Blog + No-sword + Noncompositional + NPR code switch + Office Natural Language Team Blog + Omniglot - The Blog + Oxford Etymologist + Ozarque's Journal + Paleoglot + Paperpools + Peter Harvey, Linguist + phonoloblog + Pinyin News + Podictionary + Polyglot Conspiracy + Polyglot Vegetarian + Polysyllabic (Karl Hagen) + Popular Linguistics + Proper Words in Proper Places + Replicated Typo + Ryan's linguistics blog + Sauvage Noble + Schnaufblog + Sentence First + Separated by a Common Language + Sesquiotica (James Harbeck) + SLA Blog + Strong Language + Staefcraeft & Vyakarana + Superlinguo + Talk Wordy to Me + Talking Brains + Technologies du Langage + Tenser, said the Tensor + That Munanga Linguist + ThatWhichMatter + The Babbel Blog + The Diacritics + The Engine Room + The Greenbelt + The Ideophone + The Language Guy + The Lexicographer's Rules + The Ling Space + The Lingua FIle + The Lousy Linguist + The mashed radish + The Ramblings of a Proto-linguist + The Stone and the Shell + The Virtual Linguist + The Visual Linguist + The Web of Language + The Zero Morpheme + Throw Grammar From the Train + Transblawg + Transient Languages & Cultures + Translate This! + Val Systems + Vocalized/Vocalised (Lauren Hall-Lew) + Web-Translations + Wishydig + Word Jazz + Word Journal + Word Porn + Word Routes + Wordlustitude + Wordnik blog + Words Are Delicious + Words from Sweden + Words to the Wise + You Don't Say * Meta + Log in + RSS 2.0 + Atom + WordPress Powered By WordPress