https://old.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/1bouuv7/warning_vultr_a_major_cloud_provider_is_now/ jump to content my subreddits edit subscriptions * popular * -all * -random * -users | * AskReddit * -pics * -funny * -movies * -gaming * -worldnews * -news * -todayilearned * -nottheonion * -explainlikeimfive * -mildlyinteresting * -DIY * -videos * -OldSchoolCool * -TwoXChromosomes * -tifu * -Music * -books * -LifeProTips * -dataisbeautiful * -aww * -science * -space * -Showerthoughts * -askscience * -Jokes * -IAmA * -Futurology * -sports * -UpliftingNews * -food * -nosleep * -creepy * -history * -gifs * -InternetIsBeautiful * -GetMotivated * -gadgets * -announcements * -WritingPrompts * -philosophy * -Documentaries * -EarthPorn * -photoshopbattles * -listentothis * -blog more >> reddit.com selfhosted * comments * other discussions (3) Want to join? Log in or sign up in seconds.| * English [ ][] [ ]limit my search to r/selfhosted use the following search parameters to narrow your results: subreddit:subreddit find submissions in "subreddit" author:username find submissions by "username" site:example.com find submissions from "example.com" url:text search for "text" in url selftext:text search for "text" in self post contents self:yes (or self:no) include (or exclude) self posts nsfw:yes (or nsfw:no) include (or exclude) results marked as NSFW e.g. subreddit:aww site:imgur.com dog see the search faq for details. advanced search: by author, subreddit... this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2024 1,540 points (98% upvoted) shortlink: [https://redd.it/1bou] [ ][ ] [ ]remember mereset password login Submit a new link Submit a new text post Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. get reddit premium selfhosted joinleave335,776 readers 836 users here now Welcome to /r/SelfHosted! Google Photos Mega Thread While you're here, please Read This First And why not Visit the Official Wiki Github? --------------------------------------------------------------------- A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don't control. For Example * Service: Dropbox - Alternative: Nextcloud * Service: Google Reader - Alternative: Tiny Tiny RSS * Service: Blogger - Alternative: WordPress We welcome posts that include suggestions for good self-hosted alternatives to popular online services, how they are better, or how they give back control of your data. Also include hints and tips for less technical readers. --------------------------------------------------------------------- What Is SelfHosted, As it pertains to this subreddit? --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Rules --------------------------------------------------------------------- Read about our Chat Options --------------------------------------------------------------------- Related Subreddits * /r/Servers * /r/HomeServer * /r/datahoarder * /r/musichoarder * /r/privacy * /r/Rad_Decentralization * /r/Syncthing * /r/Traefik * /r/WebApps * /r/homedash * /r/startpages * /r/hackthedeveloper Useful Lists * Awesome-Selfhosted List of Software * Awesome-Sysadmin List of Software * Awesome-Docker List of Apps Relevant Podcasts * The Selfhosted Podcast + Insight, information, and opinions + Relevant Interviews + Self-hosted tool debates a community for 9 years MODERATORS * message the mods discussions in r/selfhosted <> X 95 * 14 comments Vultr denies owning all user content, says they're changing their terms to clarify 46 * 50 comments [DEUjsnlD] Need some advice. 154 * 8 comments [EdyAuOOG] A web server hosting a tiny cloud drive on ESP8266 60 * 72 comments Now with Vultr's ToS change, I need some cloud provider recommendations 20 * 5 comments Anytype March release - web clipper, files as objects and sharing extensions 35 * 5 comments tunwg: End to end encrypted self-hosted HTTPS tunnel (cloudflare tunnel alternative) 10 LinguaCafe v0.9 update: added English, Greek and Latin support, DeepL improvements and new dictionaries. 256 * 85 comments [D6Mn_7S8] Finally got my Homepage to look neat enough to share. Let me know your thoughts! 6 * 12 comments Using a sub domain for internal services.. best practices? 6 New release of defguard open-source SSO&VPN (WireGuard MFA) - with groups, SSH/GPG keys management, and more! Welcome to Reddit, the front page of the internet. Become a Redditor and join one of thousands of communities. x 1539 1540 1541 WebserverWarning: Vultr (a major cloud provider) is now claiming full perpetual commercial rights over all hosted content (self.selfhosted) submitted 1 day ago by WyvernCo If you've got any servers running on Vultr, you may not want to accept the new terms of service. Vultr's new agreement requires its customers to fork over rights to our apps/software/data/anything hosted on the Vultr cloud platform. That goes way too far. No other datacenter company requires this. Here is the relevant section from Vultr's new TOS: information, text, opinions, messages, comments, audio visual works, motion pictures, photographs, animation, videos, graphics, sounds, music, software, Apps, and any other content or material that You or your end users submit, upload, post, host, store, or otherwise make available ("Make Available") on or through the Services (collectively, "Your Content," "Content" or "User Content"). ... You hereby grant to Vultr a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, fully paid-up, worldwide license (including the right to sublicense through multiple tiers) to use, reproduce, process, adapt, publicly perform, publicly display, modify, prepare derivative works, publish, transmit and distribute each of your User Content, or any portion thereof, in any form, medium or distribution method now known or hereafter existing, known or developed, and otherwise use and commercialize the User Content in any way that Vultr deems appropriate, without any further consent, notice and/or compensation to you or to any third parties, for purposes of providing the Services to you. This is NOT standard contract language for web services. I don't know of anywhere else that requires this. For comparison, Digital Ocean specifically limits this clause to uploads on their website (ie, for community articles, forum posts, etc), not for all hosted services (which would include virtual machines, databases, etc). Additionally, commercialization rights are not granted and it is not perpetual: Digital Ocean TOS Excerpt: We will periodically differentiate between our websites such as digitalocean.com (which we will refer to collectively as the "Websites") and all of our other services, such as our cloud infrastructure and other paid services (which we will refer to collectively as the "Services"). ... By providing your User Content to or via the Websites, you grant DigitalOcean a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, fully paid right and license (with the right to sublicense) to host, store, transfer, display, perform, reproduce, modify for the purpose of formatting for display, and distribute your User Content, in whole or in part, in any media formats and through any media channels. Though requesting limited permissions for the purposes of user uploads on a forum or other community site is fairly standard, it is not reasonable for a service provider partner to require full, irrevocable commercial rights of anything hosted on their services. That'd let Vultr take and monetize customer databases, apps, software, etc. which almost every business and personal user would likely find objectionable. Vultr needs to restrict their request as is done elsewhere in the industry. Here is another example -- AWS does not have such broad terms, except for their generative AI product: 50.12.7. PartyRock Apps. "PartyRock App" means any application created or remixed through PartyRock, including any app snapshot and all corresponding source code. By creating or remixing a PartyRock App, you hereby grant: (a) AWS and its affiliates a worldwide, non-exclusive, fully paid-up, royalty-free license to access, reproduce, prepare derivative works based upon, transmit, display, perform and otherwise exploit your PartyRock App in connection with PartyRock; and (b) anyone who accesses your PartyRock App ("PartyRock Users"), a non-exclusive license to access, reproduce, export, use, prepare derivative works based upon, transmit, and otherwise exploit your PartyRock App for any personal purpose. We may reject, remove, or disable your PartyRock App, PartyRock alias, or PartyRock account at any time for any reason with or without notice to you. You are responsible for your PartyRock Apps, PartyRock Data, and use of your PartyRock Apps, including compliance with the Policies as defined in the Agreement and applicable law. Except as provided in this Section 50.12, we obtain no rights under the Agreement to PartyRock Data or PartyRock Apps. Neither AWS, its Affiliates, nor PartyRock Users have any obligations to make any payments to you in connection with your PartyRock Apps. You will defend and indemnify AWS and its Affiliates for any and all damages, liabilities, penalties, fines, costs, and expenses (including reasonable attorneys' fees) arising out of or in any way related to Your PartyRock Apps or your use of PartyRock. Do not include personally identifying, confidential, or sensitive information in the input that you provide to create or use a PartyRock App. Note how the license grant doesn't infect the rest of AWS offerings, but is only restricted to their AI product offering "PartyRock". It's possible Vultr may want the expansive license grant in order to do AI/Machine Learning based on the data they host. Or maybe they could mine database contents to resell PII. Given the (perpetual!) license, there's not really any limit to what they might do. They could even clone someone's app and sell their own rebranded version, and they'd be legally in the clear. I sent my objection to Vultr support, but I've just been getting the run around so far. I've been trying to get them to at least let me access my account without agreeing to the new TOS so I can migrate out to another provider, but I'm now on day 5 of being locked out with no end in sight. Migrating all my servers and DNS without being able to login to my account is going to be both a headache and error prone. I feel like they're holding my business hostage and extorting me into accepting a license I would never consent to under duress. I'm self employed and the product I host (currently) on Vultr is what pays my rent, so not being able to manage it is a pretty serious concern for me. Anyway, I don't know what Vultr's plans are, but I think it's definitely worth pushing back on this overly expansive license grant they're giving to themselves. If Vultr gets away with it, other cloud providers may try to sneak it into their contracts, too * 369 comments * share * save * hide * report top 200 commentsshow all 369 sorted by: best topnewcontroversialoldrandomq&alive (beta) [ ] Want to add to the discussion? Post a comment! Create an account [-]kmisterk[M] [score hidden] 6 hours ago stickied comment (3 children) It's important on an internet forum to take all topics with a grain or two of salt, and to remember the importance of fact checking. It is also important to note that the OP is a 5-day-old account, with only this post as interaction. Quote: This seems inaccurate. I'm surprised everyone took OP's words at face value without fact checking. According to archive.org, this language has existed since at least November of 2022: https://web.archive.org/web/20231227045837/https://www.vultr.com/legal/tos/ And that section didn't change in the latest TOS, which was last updated in January of 2024: https://web.archive.org/web/20240327114514/https://www.vultr.com/legal/tos/ Here's a diff of the two TOSes: https://www.diffchecker.com/InIcltO0/ original comment from /u/addaxis here * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (3 replies) [-]vago8080 710 points711 points712 points 1 day ago (5 children) Hosting name checks out. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]VerainXor 10 points11 points12 points 23 hours ago (0 children) You were warned! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Gredo89 86 points87 points88 points 1 day ago (0 children) I came here to post this. With that name, nobody should be surprised. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]rkh4n 12 points13 points14 points 1 day ago (0 children) Came to say this * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]KarmaPoliceT2 1 point2 points3 points 17 hours ago (0 children) This whole post needs to be up voted to the moon * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]one-juru 501 points502 points503 points 1 day ago* (64 children) Thank you for this heads-up. I opened their control panel on my phone yesterday in order to check the status of a server quickly, and just accepted the obnoxious pop-up, that blocked my entire screen. I thought ,,Well it's just a small TOS change from a cloud provider, this probably won't affect me, I'll check it later" - and forgot about it. I really can't wrap my head around this though. Who thought that this would be an acceptable TOS change? Edit: As an EU customer, and having called my lawyer really quickly, we don't even think that this is legal / would hold up in court in the EU. Also they'd have been required to summarize the TOS changes as by our local law. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 142 points143 points144 points 1 day ago (19 children) You are quite welcome! Please consider e-mailing Vultr to register your thoughts. If they know they're losing business over it, perhaps they will improve. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]thecodeassassin 90 points91 points92 points 1 day ago (10 children) They already lost us, we terminated our account as soon as I verified this was part of their TOS. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]snowe2010 11 points12 points13 points 1 day ago (8 children) who are you switching to? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]thecodeassassin 23 points24 points25 points 1 day ago (0 children) Digitalocean * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]jmeador42 9 points10 points11 points 1 day ago (4 children) Digitalocean or Linode * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]dcpanthersfan 2 points3 points4 points 22 hours ago (2 children) DO has been best for us. The changeover of Linode to Akamai was pretty smooth but I find that I get better performance from DO. I moved 6 of my 16 instances today. The Carbonio migration is going to be a pain. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 2 points3 points4 points 19 hours ago (1 child) I generally had good experiences on Digital Ocean with the following exceptions: 1) That 20% overnight pricing increase a couple years ago (no grandfathered pricing) 2) Disk corruption during legacy block storage migration (was resolved thanks to support, but if I hadn't had a cron job to check my version control integrity (yay, SVN >.<), I never would have noticed the corruption) Though I suppose either/both of the above could happen anywhere. That said, other than those two events, I always had good reliability and experiences with them. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) [-]MyButtholeIsTight 4 points5 points6 points 1 day ago (0 children) Same * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]one-juru 37 points38 points39 points 1 day ago (0 children) I'll write a message to their support staff when I get home and post a follow-up on this sub when they reply * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]WireRot 31 points32 points33 points 1 day ago (4 children) Given what they were willing to do they don't deserve a customer giving them feedback to try to correct what is a really evil play. They have lost my trust and in my opinion should never be trusted again. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Kay5683 17 points18 points19 points 1 day ago (2 children) While I agree, it's important to "set an example" with things like this. Backlash against them so that others don't try to do the same thing * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]DrunkMorty 2 points3 points4 points 20 hours ago (1 child) Exactly! I destroyed all my servers then opened a ticket with the account cancellation team just to let them know why I'm leaving. It doesn't let you delete the credit card info though because "it's the only method on file". * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]VoXaN24 1 point2 points3 points 12 hours ago (0 children) That why many bank offer Virtual Credit card oh wait Vultr don't accept them... * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]thecodeassassin 7 points8 points9 points 1 day ago (0 children) Yep, won't ever do business with them again. We should not tolerate this type of behaviour. They deserve to go out of business because of this. It's predatory behaviour. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]homemediajunky 126 points127 points128 points 1 day ago (4 children) I really can't wrap my head around this though. Who thought that this would be an acceptable TOS change? They probably hoped most users, like you did, would just click accept and not read. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]one-juru 55 points56 points57 points 1 day ago* (0 children) That's most likely exactly their intention and I'm quite a bit annoyed about myself here. If I would have encountered this pop-up on my PC I'd sure as hell would've checked their TOS. But being in a rush to check a server on my phone, I just "automatically" clicked accept. I think we have to switch providers now to minimize the damage going further. However, after having a quick call with my lawyer, we both don't think that this is legal inside of the EU. So after I migrate all my data somewhere else, I might send them a few mails. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Ostracus 4 points5 points6 points 1 day ago (0 children) Right, but even if, that doesn't mean the contract is legal everywhere they operate. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Notmyotheraccount_10 3 points4 points5 points 1 day ago (0 children) Toc aren't more legal than the laws. You can click ok and if what they do is illegal, it won't matter. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Jo-dan 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Which is why you should legally have to have a simple, easy to read for point form of the key changes in any TOS change. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]nithou 8 points9 points10 points 1 day ago (7 children) Yeah same when I see some things coming from the US like TOS barring you to assign a company in justice, I just don't get how it's legally possible * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]HoustonBOFH[] 7 points8 points9 points 1 day ago (3 children) Anything is legal until you get to court. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Zealousideal_Cook704 2 points3 points4 points 20 hours ago (2 children) Well in the EU we take the position that "everything is legal" includes regulatory agencies imposing billion EUR fines without a trial. The trial comes later if you disagree :) Good luck to Vultr. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) load more comments (3 replies) [-]christoy123 12 points13 points14 points 1 day ago (0 children) Damn it, why won't it read! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Manachi 2 points3 points4 points 19 hours ago (1 child) This is disappointing. I chose Vultr a while back and really liked the service. I'll switch from it too ASAP. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]wsoqwo 3 points4 points5 points 1 day ago (0 children) Also they'd have been required to summarize the TOS changes as by our local law. Rare Gesetzgeber W * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]VVaterTrooper 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (26 children) It would probably hold up in court in the United States. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]trisanachandler 26 points27 points28 points 1 day ago (8 children) Not necessarily for PII, PHI or other regulated data. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (8 replies) [-]headykruger 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (3 children) I dont see how it's a legally binding contract in the United States but IANAL * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (3 replies) [-]Foodwithfloyd 10 points11 points12 points 1 day ago (0 children) 100% it won't. You can't change the underlying ownership structure like that with just a disclosure. It's a two party contract, a disclosure is single party. Im guessing op is misunderstanding, if this is really vultrs position this is indefensible * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (12 replies) [-]signed- 118 points119 points120 points 1 day ago (2 children) I would get a lawyer for the lockout issue * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]CryGeneral9999 31 points32 points33 points 1 day ago (0 children) Yep locking you out unless you sign over all rights to the data you were, in good faith, paying them to simply host is criminal in my opinion. The fact your business is disrupted means there are actual damages accruing. I hope you can find an affordable solicitor or lawyer or whatever you call them. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]AdAncient4846 2 points3 points4 points 18 hours ago (0 children) This should be illegal. I think it has become a very standard dark pattern at this point though. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]probablynotmine 225 points226 points227 points 1 day ago (5 children) It looks like they are looking for easy legal protection for selling out content to AI providers * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]s_busso 42 points43 points44 points 1 day ago (0 children) That sounds very much like that * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]HoustonBOFH[] 28 points29 points30 points 1 day ago (1 child) Look at the latest news for them. https://www.techzine.eu/blogs/ infrastructure/118134/ vultr-merges-ai-ml-cloud-native-and-inferencing-genai-for-all/ * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]probablynotmine 16 points17 points18 points 1 day ago (0 children) Turns out, they will be the AI provider to use your data * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]brennydenny 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (0 children) Bingo * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]terryfilch 2 points3 points4 points 13 hours ago (0 children) yep, I'm doing this https://imgur.com/a/92kzpQi * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Neowebdev 97 points98 points99 points 1 day ago* (16 children) You can temporarily get around the TOS modal by deleting it from the page if you need to go in and make changes to your account. It will keep popping up every page load. I was able to open a support ticket to close my account without accepting the TOS. Remove tos modal with Firefox: https://i.imgur.com/TLPQzAO.gif Update: a better workaround from u/WyvernCo . Use uBlock origin extension to permanently dismiss the tos popup for now. uBlock dashboard > My filters > add to end of list and apply changes: ! 2024-03-27 https://my.vultr.com my.vultr.com###tos_dialog:remove() * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]LeftBus3319 21 points22 points23 points 1 day ago (1 child) You can fully close your account at https://my.vultr.com/billing/ cancel/ * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Neowebdev 9 points10 points11 points 1 day ago* (0 children) Oh sweet, thank you for the link. Going to do that today. Update: profile data randomized, and closed. Done and done, thanks again! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 28 points29 points30 points 1 day ago* (8 children) Oooh, very interesting! Seems like it may be a good workaround to get my projects out. Thanks much for sharing. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Neowebdev 24 points25 points26 points 1 day ago* (7 children) Np, it's annoying to do every time the page reloads but it gets you around the lockout. The element to remove is the tags. If you click inspect on the text, etc it can open the inspector deeper in the popup and not remove the modal completely. Right click on the white background, above the Terms of service title of the tos popup, then inspect element. u/WyvernCo thanks for making us aware of this TOS section. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]petalised 26 points27 points28 points 1 day ago (1 child) You can run this command in the console, which is much faster. $("#tos_dialog").remove() * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]Electro-Grunge 3 points4 points5 points 1 day ago (4 children) Can maybe find a crome extension to add custom CSS and just hide it like that I'm thinking * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Neowebdev 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (3 children) uBlock origin might be able to do this too. I wasn't able to figure out how after a couple of tries. It didn't want to select the modal elements for me. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 4 points5 points6 points 1 day ago (1 child) uBlock dashboard > My filters > add to end of list and apply changes: ! 2024-03-27 https://my.vultr.com my.vultr.com###tos_dialog:remove() No idea how long this will work, so I'm grabbing all my DNS settings right away at least * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Neowebdev 1 point2 points3 points 20 hours ago* (0 children) Niiice! This is the way to go. I'll update my reply with your solution. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]thecodeassassin 8 points9 points10 points 1 day ago (0 children) this is how I closed my account without accepting those terms * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]lledargo 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago* (1 child) You can also email [support@vultr.com](mailto:support@vultr.com) to avoid having to accept the TOS to create a ticket. Not sure how the response time compares. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (2 replies) [-]nonkneemoose 110 points111 points112 points 1 day ago (4 children) Going out of business and grabbing some assets first? What kind of healthy business would pull this crap? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]advanttage 67 points68 points69 points 1 day ago (2 children) I would think it's being done this way for training AI. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]arwinda 16 points17 points18 points 1 day ago (0 children) Likely, yes. "We want to sell your data as training data to any AI company on the planet. Grant us all rights." * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]septicdank 4 points5 points6 points 1 day ago (0 children) Came here to suggest this +1 * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]zeamp 7 points8 points9 points 1 day ago (0 children) AI * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]patg84 101 points102 points103 points 1 day ago (6 children) https://www.vultr.com/legal/tos/ Section 12: You hereby grant to Vultr a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, fully paid-up, worldwide license (including the right to sublicense through multiple tiers) to use, reproduce, process, adapt, publicly perform, publicly display, modify, prepare derivative works, publish, transmit and distribute each of your User Content, or any portion thereof, in any form, medium or distribution method now known or hereafter existing, known or developed, and otherwise use and commercialize the User Content in any way that Vultr deems appropriate, without any further consent, notice and/or compensation to you or to any third parties, for purposes of providing the Services to you. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]mikewilkinsjr 78 points79 points80 points 1 day ago (1 child) Not only does that sound like AI training, it sounds like AI wrote it. It's an AI fourth wall break! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]-rwsr-xr-x 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (0 children) Not only does that sound like AI training, it sounds like AI wrote it. I wonder if that same AI attended the same made-up law school that gave it the law degree that allowed it to come with this drivel. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]ripsfo 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (1 child) Doesn't seem to match the "more simply put" thingy on the side. Anything you upload remains yours and is your responsibility. We also require that you take care to protect minors from accessing harmful material on your websites. Please note that we cooperate with law enforcement. Also, you grant us permission to use your content as necessary to provide you with the Services. Some of Vultr's amazing customers are also service providers. If you are one, please note that there are special requirements applicable to you, like removing infringing content and protecting minors. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]patg84 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago (0 children) Will to bet two different people wrote each and both don't talk to each other lol. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]RELEASE_THE_YEAST 50 points51 points52 points 1 day ago (9 children) Please make a Hacker News post about this. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Initial_Opposite2845 32 points33 points34 points 1 day ago (7 children) Yup. Maybe send it to Ars Technica too so they review the TOS and make an article? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]neumaticc 17 points18 points19 points 1 day ago (1 child) also tosdr.org * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) This looks like a really useful resource, thanks! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]danixdefcon5 3 points4 points5 points 1 day ago (3 children) I'd go for The Register, they've got lots of readership across the IT sector. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 2 points3 points4 points 19 hours ago (0 children) Sent, thanks for the suggestion * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]nullbyte420 1 point2 points3 points 11 hours ago (1 child) So does ars * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]WyvernCo[S] 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) I had already sent it to Ars, but the stuff I send to Ars never gets covered. Maybe my address got flagged for spam or something? Maybe if someone else sends, you'll have better luck! :) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]dopeytree 36 points37 points38 points 1 day ago (0 children) Probably plan to sell data for AI training * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]GNUr000t 118 points119 points120 points 1 day ago (1 child) Jokes on them, I stole all my content. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]indianapale 58 points59 points60 points 1 day ago (0 children) Just upload a bunch of Nintendo IP and then have Nintendo sue the shit out of them since they now are responsible for it. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Astronaut-Remote 26 points27 points28 points 1 day ago* (3 children) I'm glad I saw this post. I've been using Vultr for 3+ years now without any issues, so this really saddens me to see. I haven't accepted the new terms either and hoping for a resolution or change. Bullshit that they won't even let us access the dashboard without accepting. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (3 replies) [-]repocin 50 points51 points52 points 1 day ago (0 children) flips through notes ah, there it is - the 2020's, now let's see what this dystopian bullshit could be about... oh, AI data harvesting, how very quaint * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]thecodeassassin 16 points17 points18 points 1 day ago (0 children) Thank you very much for bringing this to everyones attention. This is unacceptable and I will be deleting my account. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Neowebdev 15 points16 points17 points 1 day ago (2 children) Guess I'm closing my account. Nothing actively hosted there thankfully. Plenty of other cloud providers out there. Thanks for the heads up. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]milcheto 1 point2 points3 points 10 hours ago (1 child) Just make sure to read the ToS before you sign up. :D * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]Cylian91460 68 points69 points70 points 1 day ago (2 children) So if we host illegal things, they technically own it right ? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]abutilon 12 points13 points14 points 1 day ago* (5 children) Thanks for the heads-up. Luckily I only have one box: a mail gateway that accepts and forwards mails to my self hosted mail server. The box also acts as a custom Dynamic DNS service using their DNS hosting API. Should be easy enough to switch out without using the dashboard. Shame though, I've been with them for 7 years with no issues. Edit: aww nuts. I just realised that I also use this instance as a proxy host when I need a static IP for work stuff. That's... painful. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]SanaRinomi 7 points8 points9 points 1 day ago (4 children) I use it for email and NAT bypassing my service provider... So I really do not wish for my emails to be ransacked by an AI. ANYWAYS, moving to Hetzner, they provide ARM cores for cheap. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (4 replies) [-]zarlo5899 29 points30 points31 points 1 day ago (7 children) Vultr must be looking to get sued over what their uses do * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]professional-risk678 8 points9 points10 points 1 day ago (0 children) They will likely include an indemnity clause in their TOS. Even if they dont, the copyright holders arent going to go after them, they are going to go after the user. I will bet that Vultr would even snitch on the user. Corps have a way of shaking hands and agreeing that you are their target rather than each other in situations like this. Going through the legal process helps neither party. When they go after you however they can throw the book at you and make an example. Funny how that works. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]WaaaghNL 18 points19 points20 points 1 day ago (4 children) Lets fill it up with pirated content then. They are the owner now! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]12_nick_12 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) That is an awesome idea. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (3 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [-]housepanther2000 29 points30 points31 points 1 day ago (19 children) That's fucking evil. Well, I'd never use Vultr again anyways as their pricing is not competitive. But if you want to fix their red wagon, use full disk encryption and shut down the VM when not in use. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Comfortable_Device84 11 points12 points13 points 1 day ago (18 children) I've found it competitive pricing myself. What services have better pricing? Mind you, I'm likely to move my servers to Digital ocean after that. Can't believe they are saying "hey, you allow us to use your data however we see fit" * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]housepanther2000 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (16 children) Cloudfanatic has better terms of service and better pricing. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]detimm 3 points4 points5 points 1 day ago (6 children) Any EU alternatives? As Cloudfanatic is US only. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]housepanther2000 11 points12 points13 points 1 day ago (0 children) Hetzner? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]LaiPSniSSS 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (2 children) Cherryservers pretty solid * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]RedWyvv 1 point2 points3 points 15 hours ago (1 child) Can vouch for them, but they really hate mail servers :-( * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]bobdvb 1 point2 points3 points 15 hours ago (0 children) I use Hetzner, very competitive. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]12_nick_12 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (3 children) I used them and loved them. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (3 replies) load more comments (5 replies) load more comments (1 reply) [-]Thynome 41 points42 points43 points 1 day ago (4 children) I love my decision to self-host everything. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (4 replies) [-]lledargo 17 points18 points19 points 1 day ago* (0 children) This is pretty fucking dumb, pardon my french. So say I am running paid, proprietary software from a third party, does vultr claim to now have license over that third party's intellectual property without even having paid for the third party's license? Would I be in violation of the third party's license by "granting" vultr license? Luckily I am not in this situation but I'm not even sure how this would be enforceable. I do host my email and backups on vultr though. I'll be contacting their support to close out my account without accepting the new TOS. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]MeerkatMoe 8 points9 points10 points 1 day ago (3 children) Does anyone know if Linode has anything like that in their TOS? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Catalanaa 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (2 children) No idea if I was looking in the right places but I wasn't able to find anything along the lines of this in their ToS, which is pretty relieving * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]MeerkatMoe 3 points4 points5 points 1 day ago (1 child) I emailed support and asked about it. They said that there's nothing in their agreement that grants Linode ownership over what you host or upload. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]JohnBalvin 1 point2 points3 points 21 hours ago (0 children) That's smart, we could ask by email to all providers so we don't have to read the whole terms * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Randommaggy 8 points9 points10 points 1 day ago (0 children) Corporate suicide. They must have decided to close up shop and sell of data for the AI Gold Rush. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]davespex 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (0 children) This is sick. I wouldn't even bother pushing back. Call them out publicly, repeatedly, but I wouldn't put my trust in them after this. They've been on my radar as an option multiple times, but never signed up. Hopefully some other large similar service will offer some special offer for those wanting to move, further bringing attention to this garbage stance. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]bsdguides 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (1 child) Wow, with this I will move 100% away from Vultr to another Provider asap. Too bad, never had big issues with them and I like they offer, somewhat unique, OpenBSD virtual machines. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]bastardoperator 5 points6 points7 points 1 day ago (2 children) Vultr wants to jump into the AI game, but their legal team is clearly overzealous. GitHub has similar verbiage in terms of "displaying" your code, but even MSFT isn't as brazen to try and claim ownership and special rights, like basically stealing it. This should outright scare the fuck out of any business owner using this service. If you ever needed an excuse to move, this is it right here. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]LazyPanda901 18 points19 points20 points 1 day ago (1 child) 84/112 virtual servers migrated and wiped. to vultures (Vultr): expect request from my lawyer with request to access all data you have related to me or services you provided to me. If I see even one snapshot (which I most certainly never did), see you in court. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]addaxis 16 points17 points18 points 1 day ago (7 children) This seems inaccurate. I'm surprised everyone took OP's words at face value without fact checking. According to archive.org, this language has existed since at least November of 2022: https://web.archive.org/web/20231227045837/https://www.vultr.com/ legal/tos/ And that section didn't change in the latest TOS, which was last updated in January of 2024: https://web.archive.org/web/20240327114514/https://www.vultr.com/ legal/tos/ Here's a diff of the two TOSes: https://www.diffchecker.com/InIcltO0/ * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 20 points21 points22 points 1 day ago (3 children) They didn't start forcing people to re-agree until recently (for me, last week), which is why I'm noticing now. While it is interesting (and distressing!) that this existed for a lot longer than I realized, you're missing the forest for the trees here. Vultr having snuck it in earlier than originally thought doesn't make it even one iota more okay. It just makes the situation sadder they got away with it for so long. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]addaxis 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (1 child) I'm not saying it makes it okay. After your post made me aware of that part of the TOS in the first place, I canceled my account immediately. Just wanted to point out that the problematic language has been in there for a while. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 3 points4 points5 points 1 day ago (0 children) Ah, ok, I misunderstood your intent, sorry * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]sorrowraven 2 points3 points4 points 21 hours ago (0 children) The fact that we have to agree to a new TOS/TOC suggests that this is a smokescreen for something else they don't want us to notice. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]kuilin 5 points6 points7 points 1 day ago* (0 children) Thank you for fact-checking. I double-checked to make sure that this isn't a case of the live ToS being fetched somehow from the archived web page (has happened to me before), and, nope, it's actually in the HTML of the archived page. I hope more people see this comment. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]KayWML 1 point2 points3 points 19 hours ago (0 children) Thanks for the discovery. I did some digging and found out the first snapshot containing this phrase in section 12.1a was from July of 2021 (https://web.archive.org/web/20210729200233/https:// www.vultr.com/legal/tos/). The snapshot immediately before it (from June of 2021) contains something similar in section 5.1 but phrased differently (https://web.archive.org/web/20210616193428/https:// www.vultr.com/legal/tos/). In that earlier revision, it says "As between you and Vultr, Vultr acknowledges that it claims no proprietary rights in or to the content (including without limitation, text, software, music, sound, audio visual works, motion pictures, photographs, animation, video and graphics) supplied by You for use on Your web site ("Your Content"). You hereby grant to Vultr a non-exclusive, worldwide and royalty-free license to copy, make, derivative works, display, perform, use, broadcast and transmit on and via the Internet Your Content, solely for the benefit of You and to enable Vultr to perform its obligations hereunder." It is much "better" than the current version, but still pretty dangerous. I would like to checkout more revisions, but Wayback Machine is currently down. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]QzSG 3 points4 points5 points 1 day ago (0 children) Vultr Vulturing LOL * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Stryker1-1 4 points5 points6 points 1 day ago (0 children) Guess it's time to go back to DO or over to Linode. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]circusfly555 4 points5 points6 points 1 day ago (4 children) I'd considered Vultr before but no way I'd go for them now. I've been using Oracle Cloud and their Services Agreement makes it clear they do not try to claim ownership of my content. Page 2 section 3.1. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]spit-evil-olive-tips 13 points14 points15 points 1 day ago (3 children) tfw when you're a less ethical company than Oracle * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (3 replies) [+][deleted] 1 day ago (2 children) [deleted] load more comments (2 replies) [-]LeftBus3319 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago* (2 children) Thanks for this warning. Time to throw in the towel and migrate my email elsewhere. Zoho looks decent but not self-hosted. At this point I don't care though because self-hosting email hasn't been worth it. Edit: for anyone Ctrl+F'ing: delete account close account at https:// my.vultr.com/billing/cancel/ * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]AlmondManttv 4 points5 points6 points 1 day ago (0 children) upload illegal content, their problem now. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]AZdesertpir8 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) Living up to their name, I see... * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]KevinCarbonara 3 points4 points5 points 22 hours ago (0 children) This doesn't make any sense. That rule is completely unenforceable - you can't just say, "hey, it's in the contract!" and ignore US law. But on the other hand, it can scare off customers. This seems like an awful plan all around. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]eddie2hands99911 3 points4 points5 points 17 hours ago (0 children) Anyone on here got a quick link to push this over to Louis Rossman? I can only imagine the amount of traction the story will get after a 20 minute rant from him about how if we can't own products hence corporations can't own us... * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]1fatfrog 5 points6 points7 points 1 day ago (0 children) A company called Vultr is acting like vultures. Who'd have guessed. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]jackthe_hammer 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) yikes * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]pancakeses 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) The push I needed to move the last server I still have with them. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]nicejs2 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) right when I was considering using vultr to host my things they make this change bruh * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]nikita2498 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) They probably want to push all of the users media through AI learning datacenter clusters. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Acceptable_Okra5154 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) Good lord. I had the same popup and couldn't manage infrastructure until I agreed. I thought it was pretty suspect how they didn't show you what changed and just wanted a bulk agree. I opened a support ticket about this asking if it was a mistake. I'd advise any customers to do the same. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]tinapeckinpon 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) Is this some sort of early April fools joke? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]dcpanthersfan 2 points3 points4 points 22 hours ago (0 children) I went with Vultr because they were one of the first to offer AlmaLinux and also offer Windows VMs. But this is above the pale. DO may have its issues but they aren't doing this insanity. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]lazydrippin 2 points3 points4 points 21 hours ago (0 children) Thanks for this! I've been using Vultr maybe 2 years to run a BGP tunnel to announce IP space from my home, although this isn't relating to traffic I all of a sudden no longer trust Vultr handling my traffic passing through their network. Just found a decent provider called 27Fibre/GetServers which is based in Manchester and is an even better offer than Vultr was even providing to begin with so not only has this post been a wake up call to move but also pushed me to find a better provider in the process! * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]VTi-R 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (10 children) I'm looking at the Vultr ToS right now, it's dated Jan 8 2024 and does not contain the text you've cited. Could you please provide the URL for the new ToS? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]888dog 26 points27 points28 points 1 day ago (8 children) https://www.vultr.com/legal/tos/ Under 12. USER CONTENT * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]happysri 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) could someone post that tos on a snippet/paste website before they change it. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]VTi-R 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (6 children) Thanks for that. I'd searched the page for some of the phrases in the OP and didn't find them. However, it's not the carte blanche presented. Those terms are there with the last phrase providing specific context: for purposes of providing the Services to you. You can't read the contract clauses without full context. Technically, they would be copying without permission if they took a backup, or had a replica VM etc. Or moved the VM around the world. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]mikkel1156 13 points14 points15 points 1 day ago (0 children) You can consent to those kind of things without having to legally own all their data and material * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]ztardik 10 points11 points12 points 1 day ago (0 children) How exactly does that last part change the context? They are providing a service for a fee - and now they want to pay for the service with your data in addition to money. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]thecodeassassin 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (0 children) The language they chose allows them to do pretty much anything with your data. Exactly because its too broad, perptual irrevocable so it never expires and they can change those terms later. This can and should be changed to be less broad for it to make sense even in this context. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]nmbgeek 6 points7 points8 points 1 day ago (1 child) I don't have Vultr, thankfully, but why does their license need to be irrevocable? If I cancel my service, their 'license' that I have granted them to use my works to provide the services I have paid for seems like it would also be revoked as they no longer need it to provide me services. Their legal argument could then be that while I used their services I granted them an irrevocable, all the things..., license for them to use as they deemed appropriate. I granted that license for them to provide me services, but the license itself, when mentioned, doesn't limit it to them providing me services. It says in any way their company deems appropriate. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]nemec 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Guessing it's a shortcut for "we don't have tight guarantees on data deletion so we're going to say forever so you can't sue us if we left some data online after you cancel". Their CDN, for example, may cache your content after the source content is deleted until it expires and they may not bother deleting it manually once your account is terminated. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]AnomalyNexus 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) I'd searched the page for some of the phrases in the OP and didn't find them. Checked...it's definitely there :/ * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]patg84 3 points4 points5 points 1 day ago (0 children) Section 12, halfway down the paragraph. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]patg84 3 points4 points5 points 1 day ago (3 children) Just out of curiosity, what's the app you host? Would anyone else benefit from this rent payment cash cow? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 14 points15 points16 points 1 day ago (2 children) 18+ furry video game. I spend a couple grand a year on hosting, and have close ties to other game devs in these spaces who also look for web services. If you (or anyone else) works for a well known / established / reliable provider with global points of presence, please do feel free to DM. I am actively looking. :) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]Cutsdeep- 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) Does what it says on the tin * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]AnomalyNexus 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Ugh...guess I'm not putting anything of value of vultr. That's a pretty shitty thing to do. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]zeamp 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (2 children) Good thing I went back to FDCServers two weeks ago after 18 years. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (1 child) Are they good again? That cogent uplink used to be pretty unreliable * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]zeamp 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) It hasn't changed since the 90s. It's always a B- * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]AtlasCarrier 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Was just in the midst of a migration away from Vultr to Hetzner, guess i'll be completing that today. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Herald_Yu 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (3 children) Is it possible that Vultr's staff were lazy and used AI to generate this TOS, or directly copied the content agreement from a competitor's website, accidentally expanding the scope? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]unwaivering 1 point2 points3 points 18 hours ago (0 children) Ya know, that's what I was thinking! It really looks like it to me. I'm very familiar with legal language, this is just like they copied everything from AI and put it all in. There's another way to do it, that's get one of these. https://formswift.com/terms-of-service * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]the-blue-horizon 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (2 children) Are Vultr resellers like e.g. Cloudways or Elestio affected too? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]naffhouse 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (6 children) I use them to host a static website. Think I'll be ok? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]pArbo 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (1 child) that's up to you and whether or not you're okay with this internet landlord deciding they own the things you keep in your internet house. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Text_repository 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago (0 children) I like the way you articulated that * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]NotMentalYet 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (3 children) If you're hosting a static website, there's a fairly large chance you can use Cloudflare Pages to provide your website on a global network without the VPS. If you're in it for owning a VPS and the whole server admin experience, Hetzner Cloud may be nice to look to as an alternative provider. I'm not associated with either of these companies, just happy to help. Also happy to provide alternative recommendations to both options to anyone who may be curious. Good luck! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply load more comments (3 replies) [-]djbiccboii 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) wtf * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]ClownInTheMachine 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Color me shocked. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Ongezout_ 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Thanks for the notification! I was under the impression they were trustworthy, but their name seems to check out. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Acceptable_Okra5154 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) civo.com is looking better and better * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]ARJeepGuy123 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (1 child) This may be a dumb question, but the only thing I host in vultr is a router that acts as a site to site VPN server. Should I be concerned? The only files they can see are just configs * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]huntman29 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Cancelled my account, what lunatics * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]I_EAT_THE_RICH 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (3 children) I bailed on vultr when they reported me for routing torrent traffic. They're a total garbage provider, there's legit no reason to go with them, they're not even cheap. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (3 replies) [-]middle_grounder 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Thank you for the notification and verbose write up. I look forward to reading about their lawsuits. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]siliconpa 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Ah... ...hosted-k8s control plane pricing... ....coarse-grained billing for serverless workloads... ...billing for outbound transfer only... ...claiming ownership of other's content simply for using their service... This is the cloud service provider/SaaS squeeze that will kill that entire industry and incentivize p2p hosting tech. And I cannot fucking wait to see the rent-seekers fall. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Rmr1981 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) I left vultr for dreamhost several years ago and never looked back * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]bloodguard 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Kind of makes me wonder what they've found on one of their customer's VMs that makes them want to get their hooks into it. Fingers crossed it's cold fusion/unlimited energy plans and modeling data. ^^/s * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]spit-evil-olive-tips 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) I've been using Vultr for a few years, they've gone downhill recently and I'm looking at migrating away to a different hoster. I had to update my credit card billing address recently, they have required fields for business name, type, number of employees, etc that I had to fill out with bullshit just to update my billing address. it reeked of Silicon Valley management brain of "collect more data about our customers at all costs". * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]lordcracker 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) I've reached out to customer support to request a refund and close my account. They pointed out that section 12 was not new on the TOS but issued my refund and gave me a link to close my account. All taken care very quickly. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]GigabitISDN 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (2 children) I saw this coming and it's why I moved to a dedicated server. Got a cheap secondhand Dell 1U with my own drives running a combination of Proxmox and Docker. Colocation is running around $40 - $60 for 1U with sensible power and bandwidth allocation, so if you're spending more than that on cloud hosting, it's worth looking into. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]ichdasich 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Oh am I happy in these moments that my hoster would never pull something like that. ^^ And there were those who thought i was overdoing this selfhosting stuff ;-P * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]improve-me-coder 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (1 child) Did you also contact Vultr on your findings? They do scare me, I remember the name, but don't know if I actually hosted something in the past. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]WyvernCo[S] 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Yes. I haven't gotten anything useful back yet and I'm on day 6 of this now. They basically just quoted the TOS back at me. It almost feels like AI responses from support. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]mehargags 1 point2 points3 points 23 hours ago (0 children) Thanks a ton for bringing this insight to this group. This is alarming, and a blatant exploitation of a business procedure. In other terms, this interprets that if you rent a house, the landlord will OWN, your wife, your children, your guests and of course everything that you've built or bought for yourself that resides inside the rented box. How will the agencies and hosting providers who use Vultr for backend will survive such plunder. I host 500+ websites: blogs, portfolio and e-commerce, with SLAs in place. Vultr at tier 3 level will own rights to content and copyrighted content of my client which even I can't claim to be mine by law? Where are we heading as a society with such brutal TOCs and business malpractices. How will the Service industry survive with such harsh, draconian and hostile mindset of the corporates. Or is it all about acquiring all data and feeding it to the AI bots to control more of more of this human society? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]dcpanthersfan 1 point2 points3 points 22 hours ago (1 child) If you log in to Vultr, open your web development console, click Inspect, click on the overlay and press DELETE. Now you can use the console without agreeing to TOS. You don't have to agree to TOS if you SSH in to your servers to move them elsewhere. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]jordant2722 1 point2 points3 points 20 hours ago (0 children) Thank you for this. I was running a reverse proxy but I moved over to Oracle free tier last year since it's very low use. I still have a Vultr account though, and now I know to never host anything there again. I have emailed support to cancel my account. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]TheTank18 1 point2 points3 points 20 hours ago (0 children) 100% whoring your data out to AI companies * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Manachi 1 point2 points3 points 20 hours ago (1 child) This is terrible. BTW - pretty sure GitHub's terms & conditions are similar. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]GoofusMcGhee 1 point2 points3 points 18 hours ago (2 children) Vultr posted a comment on LowEndTalk: https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/3932710/#Comment_3932710 "There seems to be a bit of a disconnect between the legal language and our trust and safety's team intention. We will clean up the legal language ASAP to avoid the conspiracy theories from propagating further. The only interest we have in your data is making sure it's safe, secure, and reliably accessible for you at all times." * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]Melodic_Gur_3517 1 point2 points3 points 18 hours ago (0 children) I interviewed for a position at Vultr, and was thoroughly weirded-out in the process by the folks who interviewed me. I hadn't done a ton of research on the company, and I was mainly going through the process out of curiosity (and for "practice"). Yeah... strange bunch, and not like in the "good strange" kinda way, more like idk, the cultish kinda way. To the intrepid, you can indeed find these people on that one site... at your peril. Also, DigitalOcean has been great for me, but there are probably other options just as decent. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]code17220 1 point2 points3 points 17 hours ago (0 children) Do you want me to use LUKS and have encryption on virtually everything I own? This is how you get to make me put LUKS on everything I own * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]TheSleeperIsAwake 1 point2 points3 points 16 hours ago (0 children) As vultures do, I guess? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]np-nam 1 point2 points3 points 15 hours ago (0 children) this is insane. I have $60 credit on Vultr that has been not used for years. Today I logged in and tried to waste that remain credits. To my surprise they do not even allow me to create an instance! * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]cufffs 1 point2 points3 points 15 hours ago (0 children) Thanks! just backed up and wiped. Account close requested. The ublock bypass from other comment works great * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Daniel15 1 point2 points3 points 14 hours ago* (2 children) Vultr is overpriced anyways. Really the only feature they have that not many other hosts have is free BGP and BYOIP (the ability to use your own IP range on their services). The rest of their offering isn't very unique. Their $24/mo "high performance" AMD only has 4GB RAM? Seriously? For $2 cheaper per month, you can get 24 GB RAM, 6 AMD EPYC cores (2 dedicated) and 100GB NVMe disk space with HostHatch. CPUs are very similar models to what Vultr "high performance" use. Go with HostHatch, GreenCloudVPS "Budget KVM", RackNerd, or or Hetzner Cloud instead. They all have really good sales during Black Friday and throughout the year. My email server is on a Black Friday $45/year ($3.75/mo) GreenCloudVPS that has an AMD EPYC CPU, 16GB RAM, and I think around 80GB NVMe 4.0 disk space (will have to double check). I'm not affiliated with any of the companies I mentioned - I'm just a current or former customer of all of them. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (2 replies) [-]ReverendRevenge 1 point2 points3 points 12 hours ago (0 children) They called themselves "Vulture" and people still signed up? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Mystic_Ervo 1 point2 points3 points 11 hours ago (0 children) Wow I love predatory business models so much (no) * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]ORyanCRN 1 point2 points3 points 4 hours ago (1 child) Hi friendly redditors! I'm a tech reporter. I have reached out to OP and I also talked with Vultr's CMO this morning. Here is a story I wrote with what Vultr has to say about this: https://www.crn.com/news/cloud/2024/ cloud-prodiver-vultr-has-bone-to-pick-after-reddit-post * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]existentialdyslexic 2 points3 points4 points 4 hours ago (0 children) So everybody was freaking out for basically no reason and they're removing the controversial clause from their TOS? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Triiiathlete 1 point2 points3 points 4 hours ago (0 children) Looks like there's some confusion about the TOS section OP quoted. https://www.crn.com/news/cloud/2024/ cloud-prodiver-vultr-has-bone-to-pick-after-reddit-post From CRN article: Cochrane said this portion of Vultr's terms of service relates just to messages and content shared on a public discussion forum that Vultr hosts and is not related to the data and apps that customers use on Vultr systems. "The specific language in the post is, if you post content on one of our public mediums. IT was specific to when we had a forum. So if you are posting content on a forum, that forum is owned by us because we have to publicly publish it so other people can see the posts." He compared the language to tech debt that is no longer needed, but carried forward, through newer iterations. To avoid confusion, he said Vultr is stripping the language from its terms moving forward. CRN has reached out to the person who penned the Reddit post but had not heard back at press time. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]Intrepid-Computer-43 2 points3 points4 points 2 hours ago (0 children) Seems that OP got this totally wrong [?] https://www.crn.com/news/cloud/2024/ cloud-prodiver-vultr-has-bone-to-pick-after-reddit-post * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]TomatoSpecialist6879 2 points3 points4 points 1 day ago (0 children) Now start hosting illegal content from copyrighted material to selling drugs, you can then get a fat pay cheque from whistling blowing on them because Vultr's TOS states it belongs to them * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]zhermi 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (1 child) what if you host some illegal stuff and report them ? * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (1 reply) [-]FaTheArmorShell 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago (0 children) Didn't Spotify do, or try to do, this as well? Where any audiobooks that were uploaded to it, they then owned or something like that. It kind of feels like more companies may try and put that kind of wording into their TOS if they feel they can get it past their customers. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply load more comments (61 replies) * about * blog * about * advertising * careers * help * site rules * Reddit help center * reddiquette * mod guidelines * contact us * apps & tools * Reddit for iPhone * Reddit for Android * mobile website * <3 * reddit premium Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. (c) 2024 reddit inc. All rights reserved. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. [pixel] p Rendered by PID 59737 on reddit-service-r2-loggedout-68f797bd46-ddchv at 2024-03-28 23:01:59.929806+00:00 running e6bd62e country code: US.