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Features
Eardrum Suck: The Mystery Solved!
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Written by: Brent Butterworth
Created: 01 February 2019
[icon] 32 Comments
Thanks to recent research, we now understand a lot about headphones.
But there's one part of the headphone puzzle that I haven't
understood at all, and until a few weeks ago, neither did anyone else
I'd talked with. It's a phenomenon I call "eardrum suck," and it
occurs with some noise-canceling headphones. When you put the
headphones on and activate the noise-canceling function, it can cause
a feeling like riding a high-speed elevator, where you're whisked
abruptly into a region of lower atmospheric pressure, and the
higher-pressure air inside your ear pushes your eardrums out
slightly. For many, including me, it's an effect so uncomfortable it
can cause us to leave our expensive noise-canceling headphones in a
drawer, unused.
Until recently, the models most notorious for eardrum suck have been
Bose over-ear noise-canceling headphones, such as the QC25s and
QC35 IIs. Yet as anyone who's taken a commercial airline flight in
the last decade can attest, these models are immensely popular.
Clearly, some people either don't experience eardrum suck, or do
experience it but aren't bothered by it.
Also, I and others noticed that the problem doesn't seem to occur
with Bose's QC20 and QC30 noise-canceling earphones, even though
those models deliver noise-canceling performance comparable to the
over-ear models.
Headphones
The question arose again when Sony came out late last year with the
WH-1000XM3s, the first headphones I've found that deliver measurably
better noise canceling than the Bose equivalents. Against my hopes
but confirming my fears, I and some of my colleagues noticed that the
WH-1000XM3s' eardrum suck seemed about as bad as the Bose QC35 IIs'.
I'd asked some of the best minds in the headphone business to explain
what's going on, but no one was able to give me a plausible answer;
"We've been wondering about that, too," was the most common response.
I searched around on the Internet, but none of the purported
explanations (such as the idea that the noise canceling allows you to
hear the blood pumping through your ears) survived more than a few
moments of scrutiny.
Last fall, I even built a test rig to measure the pressure inside a
headphone. But while it was sensitive enough to pick up the minuscule
pressure difference caused by lightly tapping a finger on the earcup,
it didn't detect any pressure difference when I switched the noise
canceling on and off. The more I thought about it, the more I
realized this shouldn't have surprised me. If there were added
pressure in the headphones, the pressure would be relieved merely by
shifting the earpads slightly to let the pressure leak out.
Then I remembered I'd once met an audio engineer whose previous work
in headphone noise canceling has resulted in several patents. I
thought that because he doesn't work directly for a headphone
manufacturer, he might be willing to shed some light. Through a
mutual acquaintance, I was able to connect with him over Skype. At
his request, I won't share his name, but his comments gave me the
first plausible answer I've found on this topic.
Before we continue, it's important to understand how noise-canceling
headphones work. In all noise-canceling headphones, there's a
microphone inside the earcup, near your ear, that picks up the sound
inside the earcup, which is a mixture of the music coming from the
driver plus environmental noise leaking in through the headphones.
The headphones route the sound from the microphone back into the
headphones' internal circuitry, out of phase with the music signal.
This cancels out most of the music signal and leaves the noise. The
resulting noise signal -- which is out of phase with the
environmental noise coming in through the headphones -- is then
routed back into the amplifier's input. Because the driver then
reproduces this noise that's out of phase with the environmental
noise, it cancels the environmental noise.
This is called feedback noise canceling. More advanced
noise-canceling headphones, such as the Bose QC35 IIs and Sony
WH-1000XM3s, add feed-forward noise-canceling, which uses a
microphone (or two) on the outer shell of the headphones to pick up
the environmental noise. The noise signal from the microphones is
inverted in phase and sent into the driver, so the noise is canceled.
Combining the feedback and feed-forward systems results in the
maximum possible noise canceling available with today's technology.
At last, the answer
According to the engineer, eardrum suck, while it feels like a quick
change in pressure, is psychosomatic. "There's no actual pressure
change. It's caused by a disruption in the balance of sound you're
used to hearing," he explained. "People sometimes report the same
effect when they go into anechoic chambers, which absorb high
frequencies but allow low frequencies to come through. With
noise-canceling headphones, it's the opposite -- you're canceling the
bass but not the high frequencies -- but it can have the same
effect."
"With noise-canceling headphones," he continued, "cancelation is
dependent on waveform matching [i.e., the cancelation signal waveform
must be 180 degrees out of phase with the noise]. That's no problem
in the bass because the waveforms are so long. But you have to bring
the cancelation back to zero at higher frequencies, because the
wavelengths are shorter and the headphones will start to squeal."
What that means is that at higher frequencies with short wavelengths,
the canceling signal can start to reinforce certain frequencies
rather than cancel them. The "squeal" he refers to is feedback.
Technically, it's much like the feedback you get when you put a
microphone in front of a P.A. speaker. The sound waves from the
speaker excite the microphone diaphragm, which sends that signal back
into the P.A., which is amplified and again picked up by the
microphone, and you get a self-reinforcing signal loop -- and a
squeal that continues until you pull the microphone away from the
speaker.
To eliminate the possibility of squeal, noise-canceling headphones
use a filter that limits the noise-canceling effect to low
frequencies. It's this filter that introduces the "disruption in the
balance of sound you're used to hearing" he spoke of previously.
"I've played with the noise canceling a lot," he said. "I've changed
the compensation on the fly, while I was wearing the headphones, and
could hear what was going on. I could start with a modicum of
cancelation, then increase the filter slope to give the maximum
cancelation, and I could feel the pressure effect increasing. If the
transition is very steep -- if you try to get as much cancelation in
the lows as possible, then have to bring it abruptly back to zero by
using a steeper filter slope -- that mode gives you the most pressure
effect."
You can see this in measurements of noise isolation versus frequency,
which I include in all SoundStage! Solo headphone reviews. Below is a
chart that shows the isolation provided by several noise-canceling
headphones. The red arrow shows the filter slope the engineer is
talking about. You can see that with the Bose QC35 IIs and the Sony
WH-1000XM3s, the cancelation in the bass is very strong, and there's
a more abrupt transition from maximum canceling at about 100 to
300Hz, to zero canceling at 1kHz. (The isolation you see at 1kHz and
higher frequencies results from the passive isolation provided by the
physical structure of the headphones, not from the noise-canceling
circuitry.) The Sony WH-H900Ns, which in my experience produce just a
slight amount of eardrum suck, have a gentler filter slope. The NAD
Viso HP70s, which for me produce no eardrum suck, focus a relatively
modest amount of noise canceling within a narrow band.
Isolation chart
Note that the Bose QC20 earphones have a slope just about as steep as
the QC35 IIs and WH-1000XM3s, but in my experience, the QC20s don't
produce eardrum suck. Why? I asked the engineer.
"I've not had the experience of many in-ears that do cancel well; an
awful lot of them do not," he replied. "It may be the fact that they
give a good amount of passive isolation as well" -- which would make
the difference in noise between the low and high frequencies less
pronounced. In this case, the theory doesn't correlate as well with
the measurements, because with the Bose QC20s, the isolation above
1kHz actually isn't as good as it is with the over-ear models because
the QC20s' StayHear tips don't seal as securely as many other
earphone tips do. Still, it appears that the acoustical effects of
plugging the ear canal eliminate the eardrum suck effect, for
whatever reason.
The bottom line is, the eardrum suck phenomenon isn't directly caused
by highly effective noise canceling. It's a side effect caused by the
filter required to achieve highly effective noise canceling without
encountering feedback problems. So it appears we may always have this
tradeoff -- the headphones with the best noise canceling will produce
the strongest eardrum suck effect. But as the engineer pointed out, a
solution to the problem is possible, although it might not be an
engineering solution.
"I became inured to it after working on these headphones for a while,
so maybe it's like an addiction -- maybe you can train yourself out
of it," he concluded.
Postscript: Since this article was published, I've noticed that some
people are taking it as a criticism of noise-canceling headphones.
It's anything but. Only a few noise-canceling headphones exhibit
eardrum suck, and many models (such as the Sony WH-H900Ns) deliver a
useful amount of noise canceling without producing eardrum suck. And
as you can see if you read my article "How Much Noise Do Your
Headphones Really Block?" here on SoundStage! Solo, the passive
isolation provided by headphones and earphones does almost nothing to
reduce the annoying drone of jet engines. So for frequent flyers,
noise-canceling headphones are by far the best choice for listening
on the go.
. . . Brent Butterworth
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need
JavaScript enabled to view it.
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People in conversation:
* Doug Schneider
* Brent Butterworth
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* This commment is unpublished.
Titu Marma
Titu Marma * 2 days ago
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wow, a great Article Really!Thanks for sharing these noise
cancellation best headphones .
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JCox
JCox * 8 months ago
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Do you have some recent recommendations for ANC headphones with
very minimal to no eardrum suck?
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Doug Schneider
Doug Schneider * 8 months ago
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Brent and Geoff might have some ideas. Lately, I've been
using Bowers & Wilkins Px7 S2 headphones without issue. That
said, "eardrum suck" can vary from person to person.
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John
John * 1 years ago
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Is it possible to have similar earsuck (or inner ear) problems
with non-noise cancelling headphones? I bought the Breyerdynamics
Amiron Home (open ear) and I feel this pressure when listening to
music and it continues even when not wearing them? I also use an
iFi DAC. Not sure if that could also be causing a problem. Thank
you.
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 1 years ago
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On a couple of occasions I have gotten that feeling when
wearing non-noise-cancelling headphones, but it always
passes; I think it may be my ears adjusting to a different
acoustical environment. The situation you describe is
strange. Does it occur with any other headphones? With
earphones?
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Qtax
Qtax * 2 years ago
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If this reason for the "eardrum suck" is correct, then playing
some background noise should remove the feeling.
I don't recall that the feeling decreased when playing noisy
records on my QC35's. They have a very pronounced ear pressure
feeling for me on the default (max) noise canceling level. On the
lower ANC level the feeling is much less and not as disturbing
for me.
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Oliver
Oliver * 2 years ago
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Is it permanent pressure on your ears even when you take the
headphones off?
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Brian
Brian * 2 years ago
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Hi Brent, I bought the Soundcore Q20s on your recommendation in
the comments below back in December 2020. You were spot on saying
they don't give you the ear pressure issue. They have been great
headphones but it hasn't been a year and the plastic on the
headband is cracking. So luckily Amazon will still refund me.
I now want to buy better quality headphones but my ears are
sensitive to ANC on the higher end models. I had to return the
Sony XM4s before I bought the Soundcore Q20s. It's a pity Anker
don't make better quality headphones.
I see that the Bose 700s have different levels of ANC. You have
mentioned them in the comments below but can you confirm that
when you dial down the ANC on a lower level you don't get that
ear sucking feeling? At what level do you wear them at and is
that level comparable to the Soundcore Q20s ANC?
Thanks.
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 2 years ago
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I apologize, this one escaped my notice. Yes, with the Bose,
the eardrum suck only happens above a certain level. For me,
I anything above 7 on a scale of 10 gave me eardrum suck. But
those headphones at 70% is still a very useful amount of
noise canceling
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John
John * 2 years ago
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I always wondered about this when I got my XM1000X2s and I admit
it was uncomfortable at first. After months of wearing them I
cannot feel it anymore.
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Gundam
Gundam * 2 years ago
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Hi,
I recently got the QC35 II as a replacement for the QC25 and
easily noticed the ear drum pressure. Will this cause damage to
my hearing? I'm concerned the pressure might result in my ear
drum being damaged. If so, maybe I need to consider returning the
Headset.
Thank you
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 2 years ago
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Sorry, meant to answer this but got distracted. Eardrum suck
won't damage your hearing. As real as it feels, it's
psychosomatic. But if the eardrum pressure bothers you, you
can get the NC 700, which lets you adjust the noise canceling
in 10 steps. I couldn't wear my QC 25s for long, but I really
like the 700s.
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Dennis Didinger
Dennis Didinger * 2 years ago
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Do the Sonys XM1000M3 allow for the adjustment of noise
cancelling as well? Its a really intense nausea feeling
for me after 2-3 minutes and I`m thinking of giving mine
back.
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Dennis Didinger
Dennis Didinger * 2 years ago
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Sorry, I Mean those: Sony WH-1000XM3
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 2 years ago
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Just checked my measurement files and I have only
on/off measurements for the noise canceling on
that model. It is possible that I missed that
function in the app, and it's also possible that
Sony pushed out an update for the headphones or
the app that includes adjustable NC, as I believe
they did for the 1000XM4. If you Google "firmware
update Sony WH-1000XM3" you should be able to
find out if Sony offers an update. If not, then I
suspect those are not headphones you will enjoy!
I bought Bose QC25s and ended up using them only
a few times for the same reason.
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Sam
Sam * 2 years ago
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The QC35ii has a low ANC mode too(not sure they add this recently
or it has this all the time). Do you still feel eardrum suck in
the low mode?
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 2 years ago
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Just checked my measurements and I don't have a measurement
for a low ANC mode with the QC 35II. That headphone has been
through at least one major update since its introduction (I
ran new measurements on the original and the first update),
and may have been updated since the NC 700 was introduced. On
the NC 700, I start feeling eardrum suck at an ANC setting of
8 (out of 10), so if the low setting on the QC 35II is
halfway, I would probably be comfortable with them.
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SK Wilson
SK Wilson * 2 years ago
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This comment may be a little late for the conversation, but do
you have a list somewhere of the headphones LEAST likely to
produce this effect? I'm apparently very sensitive to it. I
bought the Bose headphones Costco was carrying, and my spouse
ended up inheriting them after they made me *very* sick. (Think
reading-in-the-car sick)
My problem is that I can't find higher end headphones with a mic
that I can use for work calls, that fit my ears and don't have
noise cancelling. I was hoping the AirPod pros would work, but
people report the same problems. Regular AirPods, with the hard
earpieces, don't make me sick but they make my ears hurt after 20
minutes. Any suggestions?
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 2 years ago
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Which Bose model do you have? I see Costco sells the QC35II
(which is among the worst ever for eardrum suck) and the 700,
which has adjustable NC that can be turned down.
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Christian
Christian * 2 years ago
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Xm4s have adjustable noise cancellation does that help this
issue?
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 2 years ago
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Yes, if you experience eardrum suck, being able to turn ANC
down should lessen or eliminate it.
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shai
shai * 3 years ago
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hey.. you can think about the reason why for me it happens only
on the right side? I am wondering if this is normal ( because
it's very very unpleasant ) or maybe there is some defect in the
headphones
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Doug Schneider
Doug Schneider * 3 years ago
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Brent might have some ideas -- but have you tried reversing
the headphones (i.e., put the right earcup on your left ear
and vice versa) to see if the problem follows the earcup?
Doug
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 3 years ago
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That's a very good idea, Doug. I'd start there. Shai, it
could be due to the fit of the headphones being different
on each of your ears, and perhaps not sealing as well on
the side where you're not getting eardrum suck. Or you
may have a hearing difference, or the headphones could
indeed be defective.
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Nawid
Nawid * 3 years ago
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But when I'm in a car and it's pretty quiet I don't experience
eardrum suck. As soon as the car starts driving it's getting
worse. Even when I open the window it gets worse. It feels like
the more it cancels out the more it sucks. I'm using AirPods Pro
btw.
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 3 years ago
o
That's interesting. I have a friend whose car gives him
eardrum suck even without headphones. I feel the effect, too.
He's tried a few different fixes but I don't think he ever
really solved it. What headphones do you have? They could
have dynamic ANC that adjusts to the ambient noise.
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Miranda
Miranda * 3 years ago
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In your opinion, which have less eardrum suck and are more
comfortable---Bose QC 15 or Bose QC 25? Finally, any other ideas?
I don't want wireless headphones (wired, please), and I want
fabulous noise canceling. What would you recommend? Thanks! I
love your article. Fascinating and so clear!
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 3 years ago
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Thanks! I haven't used the QC15s or the QC25s in years. To
the best of my recollection, they're comparably comfortable,
and the noise cancelling is similar, so the eardrum suck
would be comparable. I'm struggling to think of a noise
cancelling headphone you can buy that's not wireless. Most
have shifted to wireless, but most of them also include a
cable for wired listening. If you don't mind spending the
money, the Bose NC 700 is great, and the noise cancelling
(and therefore the eardrum suck) is adjustable. The Anker
Soundcore Q20 also has very good noise cancelling, for well
under $100, and I didn't get eardrum suck from it. Here's
Geoff Morrison's take on the QC15 vs. QC25, which I was
lightly involved with: https://www.forbes.com/sites/
geoffreymorrison/2014/09/08/bose-quietcomfort-25-review
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Miranda
Miranda * 3 years ago
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Wow! Thank you so much. This was an amazing experience to
have your input and help so immediately after my
response. The article you linked to was helpful. The
reason I don't want to have blue tooth wireless
headphones is that I want the simplicity of not having it
connected to any phones, computers, etc. Only to my
little mp3. Also don't like the fact that Bose wireless
headphones sold data illegally (lawsuit filed by Kyle Zak
in 2017). I can understand if that's not interesting or
relevant to you or some people, though. Anyway, I'm
grateful and amazed by the research you've done on
headphones and how clearly you present it.
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Seba
Seba * 3 years ago
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I got Bose 700 and I feel eardrum suck after 1h when I take it
off. How to prevent it? Is it hurt my ears?
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Sumi
Sumi * 3 years ago
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Nice review, pretty helpful too!
Could you recommend a pair for my 10 yo, drummer also taking
virtual classes (so needs a mic)? i would like a long lasting
pair, wireless (preferably foldable) . i was considering Audio
technica when i chanced upon the Serenity II in the comments.
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 3 years ago
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Is he going to use them for practicing drums, playing along,
etc?
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Sumi
Sumi * 3 years ago
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Yes
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 3 years ago
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If you need a mic, I think you're going to have to
get a set of gaming headphones. There are aftermarket
mics you can stick on to the side of the headphones,
but I haven't used one. Also, he needs to use a wired
connection for playing, Bluetooth will have too much
latency (unless the headphones and the source device
both have aptX Low Latency, or they both have aptX
Adaptive). I don't know anything about gaming
headphones, but my colleagues at Wirecutter have some
good recommendations: https://thewirecutter.com/
reviews/best-gaming-headset/
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Sumi
Sumi * 3 years ago
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Thank you!
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Troy
Troy * 3 years ago
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Also, I read years ago that ANC headphones were effective at
treating tinnitus, if true has there been any follow up on this?
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 3 years ago
o
Not that I'm aware of, although that's plausible. Just a
couple of days ago, I read a bunch of papers on hearing
damage and treatment for an article I did on PSAPs. Although
I was focused on high-frequency loss and noise notches, the
studies I read were inconclusive on tinnitus treatment. My
take was, some things seem to work for some people sometimes.
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Troy
Troy * 3 years ago
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"So for frequent flyers, noise-canceling headphones are by far
the best choice for listening on the go"
More so than IEMs, or universal fit phones such as Shure which
block the whole spectrum of sound?
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 3 years ago
o
Yes! Nothing blocks the whole spectrum of sound evenly. Some
companies claim that but when you consider the physics and
see the measurements, it's clearly not true. This article
shows how much and at what frequencies the various types of
headphones and earphones block sound. https://
www.soundstagesolo.com/index.php/features/
142-how-much-noise-do-your-headphones-really-block
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Jeff
Jeff * 3 years ago
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I've just begun reading reviews of NC headphones (including
yours), and what I'm seeing (if I understand correctly) is that
the devices focus mainly on masking low-frequency sound, such as
jet engines.
I do want them for traveling, but I don't much care about engine
noise. I actually run a large air cleaner next to my bed at
night; I find it helps me to sleep (white noise).
I'm far more concerned about ambient conversation. I just want
everyone to stop talking.
I wasn't previously aware of "eardrum suck", and would like to
avoid it. I'd also like not to spend $300-$400 (although I will
if I have to), but can spend more than $60 for the Anker (which
some reviewers have found uncomfortable, and some claim the noise
cancelling isn't very good, and/or that it tends to make a
"popping" sound).
Is there anything you can recommend?
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 3 years ago
o
In the telephony industry, the generally accepted range of
the human voice is 300 to 3000 Hz, so you'd want headphones
(not earphones, I assume?) that are especially good in this
range. In the measurements in our headphone reviews, we show
the isolation at different frequencies of sound.
Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of headphones that do a
great job between about 500 and 1000 Hz (where active noise
canceling for the most part doesn't work). One I can think of
is the Direct Sound Serenity II. It's based on a model
developed for drummers. They have newer models but I haven't
tested them (yet). Here's the isolation chart for the
Serenity II.
o
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charlesa
charlesa * 3 years ago
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Is there any consensus on what headphones are the worst for the
Eardrum Suck? Bose or Sony? A list perhaps?
Charles A.
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 3 years ago
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In our testing, I and my colleagues at Wirecutter found the
Sony WH-1000XM3, the Bose QC35 II and the Bose NC 700 (set
for maximum noise canceling) to have the worst eardrum suck.
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charlesa
charlesa * 3 years ago
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Is there Link?
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 3 years ago
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This one should tell you most of what you need to
know, although it doesn't have an "eardrum suck
ranking" per se: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/
best-noise-cancelling-headphones/
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* This commment is unpublished.
MishraV
MishraV * 3 years ago
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This is exactly what i was searching for, I bought qc35ii few
months ago and wasn't able to use it longer than few days, qc30
is much more comfortable but the call quality is not good.
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* This commment is unpublished.
Sheila
Sheila * 4 years ago
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I have a condition called hearing recruitment and although it has
been recommended by audiologists to try and not use earphones, I
have found they are the only way I can bear everyday noise and
the active noise cancelling function is a must for me. I do
experience eardrum suck and nausea when I wear the Bose QC35
headphones for too long however the benefit outweighs these
symptoms. I am about to buy Sony WF 1000XM3 in ear buds as have
read these do not produce eardrum suck as are not over the ear
and the noise cancelling is reported to be the industry best.
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Kyler
Kyler * 3 years ago
o
I use these for misophonia, "hatred of sounds." I totally
agree the benifits outweigh the uncomfortable ear suck. Since
I have to use these almost 24/7 besides sleeping I find it
very nerve wracking. Did the Sony WF make a difference?
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Mukund
Mukund * 4 years ago
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So I get the technical explanation of why noise canceling isn't
used at high frequencies, and how that creates the sudden change
in what is canceled between low and high frequencies. But why
does that sudden change in what you hear create the eardrum suck
sensation?
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 4 years ago
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Apparently it throws off the brain when you're doing heavy
cancellation in the bass but none in the treble, making your
brain think it's experiencing a pressure differential.
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JeremyC
JeremyC * 4 years ago
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I think Mukund is asking the same thing I'm wondering
about:
But *why* does the steeper filter slope make your brain
think it's experiencing a pressure differential? And are
we even sure this is the case?
To be clear I really appreciate your article here. I've
returned QC35s because of "eardrum suck" and until now I
didn't even know the phenomenon had a name. You've given
it a more thorough treatment by far than ANYWHERE else
I've seen. But that's weird, right? I'm still like... why
isn't everyone talking about this? It was SO noticeable
with the QC35, I couldn't stand it.
So for me the million dollar question remains unanswered:
What causes eardrum suck? And how can that explanation
shed light on our other burning questions e.g.:
-Does eardrum suck afflict everyone then?
-For those it does affect, is it present to the same
degree or different? Ever since I was a kid I'm one of
those people that hates flying because of the eardrum
feeling on takeoff and landing. So the fact that I'm
bothered by eardrum suck too isn't a huge surprise, and
it supports the hypothesis that ANC is "tricking" the
brain into thinking there's a pressure change. But with
"eardrum suck" not being a physical phenomenon / pressure
change, it raises some challenging questions re why
anyone would be predisposed to *both*
-Would everyone be capable of just getting used to it?
For one example, I gave it a shot for a few days and
didn't notice any improvement. Not very long of course.
-if we at least know it's correlated with the filter
slope, is this something that manufacturers can design
around / are designing around? For now I'll stick with
very minimal ANC + passive isolation :)
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 4 years ago
@
We did some further study at Wirecutter: https://
thewirecutter.com/blog/
how-do-noise-cancelling-headphones-work/
That probably answers the first two questions. I have
communicated with a couple of readers who've gotten
used to it, but I can't and I don't get the
impression most people can. On the filter slope
question, maybe. I was able to measure the filter
slopes on some models (subtracting the passive
isolation from the active isolation), and I think
with DSP it might be possible to make a compound
filter that achieves a better compromise than, say,
the QC35 IIs do. But the Bose 700 NCs' adjustable ANC
does the job for me very well now.
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Guest
Guest * 4 years ago
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any feedback on the latest Bose 700?
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 4 years ago
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Yes, I think they're pretty fantastic. They seem to sound
similar to the QC35 II, but I think they're more comfortable.
The best thing about them is that the noise canceling is
adjustable in 10 steps, so you can dial in exactly as much as
is comfortable for you -- i.e., if you experience eardrum
suck, you can set it for the maximum possible NC before you
start to get eardrum suck. I think I had them on 7 out of 10
and I got very good NC with just a tiny hint of eardrum suck.
But you can crank them up to the point where you're getting
about the same NC as the QC35 II.
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Guest
Guest * 4 years ago
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Great. The feedback on eardrum suck is helpful. Does
anyone here get headache with bluetooth or wireless
headsets? I am not able to test if the Bose700 can cause
headache.
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 4 years ago
@
I've never heard a plausible claim of Bluetooth
causing headaches. The RF emissions of Bluetooth
devices are considerably lower in magnitude than
those of cell phone transmissions.
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James
James * 3 years ago
@
I can sort of answer; short answer no with bluetooth
headset. I had my Bose Soundlink II for the past year
with no problems what so ever. Received the Sony WH
1000XM3 for Christmas and tested them out. Had to
return them due to eardrum suck and gave me massive
headache on two separate days. Currently just got the
Bose QC35II to try as well and from what I've
researched so far it's supposed to be worst than the
Sony. But 1st day test...so far, okay. But more
testing required if I am going to keep it. Also did
upgrade it to latest firmware which apparently
reduced ANC but perhaps that may alleviate some
eardrum suck.
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MusicFan
MusicFan * 4 years ago
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+
+
Any chance the new B&O H9 are doing a better job with the
eardrum-suck thing? I can't seem to find any pair that feels
'good'
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Arnaud
Arnaud * 4 years ago
o
Hi there, little late to the party but hopefully you'll see
this. I've recently been able to test the sony xm3, the bose
qc35 II and the H9i and the H9i were indeed the ones i
prefered, with no ear suck felt. Cheers.
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Geir Tore Myrlid
Geir Tore Myrlid * 4 years ago
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I think noise cancelling bluetooth headphones are very easy to
use.But i have changed to iems.I had px,bcq35,sony wh1000 xm3.And
they where all good in their own way.But iems block out more,AND
sound much better.At least the ones i have tried.Shure
se535,se846,rha t20 and fiio fa7.But the downside is taking them
on/off and the wire.But for me its worth it.Wired sounds better.
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* This commment is unpublished.
Will
Will * 4 years ago
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This is an interesting read. From my old days lurking on head-fi,
I've always been extremely skeptical of ANC (they used to really
rip on the Bose back in the day). Because I just moved to a new
city with a commute that is much easier on public transit and an
open office at work, I picked up the Sony WH-1000XM3s. I don't
notice any "eardrum suck" at all, so I guess I lucked out
physiologically.
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Andrew jones
Andrew jones * 4 years ago
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+
+
I just thought of an interesting experiment you could do if you
can persuade someone to allow you access to an anechoic chamber.
I no longer have access to an anechoic chamber so I cannot do it.
I wish I had thought of this before!
Since you get the "ear-suck" effect within an anechoic chamber,
try producing noise in the chamber at various levels and
frequency bandwidths and see what combinations of level and
bandwidth eliminate the suck effect.
Should prove interesting......
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Andrew jones
Andrew jones * 4 years ago
o
I don't experience the sucking effect on the Sony headphones,
but then I rarely use them unless I'm in flight.
Maybe you can also perform the experiment by mixing in the
noise into the headphone. There may be an optimum balance
between the noise cancelation bandwidth and the threshold of
the background noise
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 4 years ago
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I would love to do this, and I know a couple of nearby
facilities that might help -- or Doug could rent the NRC
chamber for me, maybe. The hard part would be getting a set
of headphones plus the appropriate DSP tuning application,
and access so I could make the alterations.
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Simon Wright
Simon Wright * 4 years ago
#
If the effect occurs in the chamber without headphones
and can be relieved by the application of noise, you
wouldn't even need headphones--just regular speakers.
Bring along a white noise generator and a graphic EQ with
a wide range of dB adjustment. (Or a laptop with software
that does the same.)
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jim
jim * 4 years ago
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+
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As someone who always wants the maximum noise reduction possible
when flying, I eliminate the eardrum suck problem by using the
Bose QC35 as well as wear normal yellow foam ear plugs. The foam
ear plugs are best for higher frequency reduction while the Bose,
as mentioned above, are better for reducing lower frequencies.
Using the two together gives an overall flatter attenuation
curve, and not only is this consistent with the explanation in
the article, for me eliminates the eardrum suck problem entirely
(and leads to much better experience on long flights).
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 4 years ago
o
Thanks for the suggestion! I've heard this from a few others,
too. But I'm concerned as to what the effects are on
frequency response, as the earplugs don't have consistent
attenuation at all frequencies. Of course, some of that can
be corrected with EQ in the smartphone. At some point, I'll
do some measurements and an article about this.
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Womble
Womble * 4 years ago
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Very helpful. Tried the QC35II and QC30s in the nose shop. The
QC35II was too much eardrum suck, the QC30s were better. Having
then bought and used them a few times the QC30s do have some
eardrum suck but you can dial down the isolation perhaps 10% and
it's perfect
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Hasan
Hasan * 4 years ago
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+
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the question is: is the eardrum suck harmful for your inner ear?
+ 1 Up 0 Down
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Brent Butterworth
Brent Butterworth * 4 years ago
o
Apparently not. There's no actual pressure difference, it's
only a perceived pressure difference.
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