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Log in or sign up in seconds.| * English [ ][] [ ]limit my search to r/singularity use the following search parameters to narrow your results: subreddit:subreddit find submissions in "subreddit" author:username find submissions by "username" site:example.com find submissions from "example.com" url:text search for "text" in url selftext:text search for "text" in self post contents self:yes (or self:no) include (or exclude) self posts nsfw:yes (or nsfw:no) include (or exclude) results marked as NSFW e.g. subreddit:aww site:imgur.com dog see the search faq for details. advanced search: by author, subreddit... this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2023 2,379 points (92% upvoted) shortlink: [https://redd.it/17xy] [ ][ ] [ ]remember mereset password login Submit a new link Submit a new text post Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. get reddit premium singularity joinleave1,538,554 readers 3,195 users here now Links * Artificial Intelligence * Universe * Space Settlement * Space Flight * Cosmology * Reddit Space Initiative * Futurist Politics * To the Moon * Space Videos * Starparty * AskTechnology * Transhuman * Transhuman * Transhumanism * Cyborgs * Nootropics * Cyberpunk * All the Sciences * Futurism * Post Earth * RedditToTheFuture * FutureWorldProblems * FuturePorn * Imaginary Technology * Time Reddits * Retro Futurism * Automate * TheVenusProject * The Control Problem + Singularity + Singularity + Singularitarianism + Robotics + Artificial + SFT Network + FAQ + Join us in Chat! A subreddit committed to intelligent understanding of the hypothetical moment in time when artificial intelligence progresses to the point of greater-than-human intelligence, radically changing civilization. This community studies the creation of superintelligence-- and predict it will happen in the near future, and that ultimately, deliberate action ought to be taken to ensure that the Singularity benefits humanity. On the Technological Singularity The technological singularity, or simply the singularity, is a hypothetical moment in time when artificial intelligence will have progressed to the point of a greater-than-human intelligence. Because the capabilities of such an intelligence may be difficult for a human to comprehend, the technological singularity is often seen as an occurrence (akin to a gravitational singularity) beyond which the future course of human history is unpredictable or even unfathomable. The first use of the term "singularity" in this context was by mathematician John von Neumann. The term was popularized by science fiction writer Vernor Vinge, who argues that artificial intelligence, human biological enhancement, or brain-computer interfaces could be possible causes of the singularity. Futurist Ray Kurzweil predicts the singularity to occur around 2045 whereas Vinge predicts some time before 2030. Proponents of the singularity typically postulate an "intelligence explosion", where superintelligences design successive generations of increasingly powerful minds, that might occur very quickly and might not stop until the agent's cognitive abilities greatly surpass that of any human. Resources * Machine Intelligence Research Institute * LessWrong * Follow us at on twitter * Future of Humanity Institute * H+Pedia Posting Rules 1) On-topic posts 2) Discussion posts encouraged 3) No Self-Promotion/Advertising 4) Be respectful Check out /r/Singularitarianism and the Technological Singularity FAQ --------------------------------------------------------------------- a community for 15 years MODERATORS * message the mods discussions in r/singularity <> X 242 * 103 comments [w1Pj7zhH] Altman clashed with members of his board, especially Ilya Sutskever, an OpenAI co-founder and the company's chief scientist, over how quickly to develop what's known as generative AI. Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella was "blindsided" by the news and was furious 2380 * 849 comments [3vUjio8t] Its here 446 * 151 comments [dWZjcXJ2] 0:32 This scene is so interesting in the light of the latest news 93 * 10 comments [gLPLxMq6] Satya Nadella realizing that OpenAI 1) uses google meet and 2) that Microsoft has zero information right or say in their business, getting information solely from X like the rest of us dogs 84 * 61 comments [sVYk0aa0] New: OpenAI employees were just told that the board's decision to fire Sam Altman "was not made in response to malfeasance" or the co's financial/safety/business practices. "This was a breakdown in communication between Sam and the board. 73 * 15 comments MIT Study Suggests LLMs (AI) Might Be Navigating the Realms of Time and Space on Their Own. What's happening then inside of GPT-5? 528 * 254 comments [WwxvsSXt] 'OpenAI crisis deepens as 3 other senior researchers resign' * 39 comments [2WqM4nNK] Sam Altman Plans New Venture 43 * 24 comments There is no single group that can be trusted to determine what is best for all of humanity 3239 * 1426 comments [J3wM5Nfu] Sam Altman Fired From OpenAI Welcome to Reddit, the front page of the internet. Become a Redditor and join one of thousands of communities. x 2378 2379 2380 [3vUjio8t] DiscussionIts here (i.redd.it) submitted 18 hours ago by SnooStories7050 * 849 comments * share * save * hide * report loading... sorted by: best topnewcontroversialoldrandomq&alive (beta) [ ] Want to add to the discussion? Post a comment! Create an account you are viewing a single comment's thread. view the rest of the comments - [-]cloroformnapkin 223 points224 points225 points 14 hours ago (32 children) Perspective: There is a massive disagreement on Al safety and the definition of AGL Microsoft invested heavily in OpenAI, but Open Al's terms was that they could not use AGI to enrich themselves. According to Open Al's constitution: AGI is explicitly carved out of all commercial and IP licensing agreements, including the ones with Microsoft. Sam Altman got dollar signs in his eyes when he realized that current Al, even the proto-AGI of the present, could be used to allow for incredible quarterly reports and massive enrichment for the company, which would bring even greater investment. Hence Dev Day. Hence the GPT Store and revenue sharing. This crossed a line with the OAI board of directors, as at least some of them still believed in the original ideal that AGI had to be used for the betterment of mankind, and that the investment from Microsoft was more of a "sell your soul to fight the Devil" sort of a deal. More pragmatically, it ran the risk of deploying deeply "unsafe" models. Now what can be called AGI is not clear cut. So if some major breakthrough is achieved (eg Sam saying he recently saw the veil of ignorance being pushed back), can this breakthrough be called AGI depends on who can get more votes in the board meeting. And if one side can get enough votes to declare it AGI, Microsoft and OpenAI could lose out billions in potential license agreements. And if one side can get enough votes to declare it not AGI, then they can license this AGl-like tech for higher profits. A few weeks/months ago OpenAI engineers made a breakthrough and something resembling AGI was achieved (hence his joke comment. the leaks, vibe change etc). But Sam and Brockman hid the extent of this from the rest of the non-employee members of the board. Ilyas is not happy about this and feels it should be considered AGI and hence not licensed to anyone including Microsoft. Voting on AGI status comes to the board, they are enraged about being kept in the dark. They kick Sam out and force Brockman to step down. llyas recently claimed that current architecture is enough to reach AGI, while Sam has been saying new breakthroughs are needed. So in the context of our conjecture Sam would be *on the side trying to monetize AGI and Ilyas will be the *one to accept we have achieved AGI. Sam Altman wants to hold off on calling this AGI because the longer it's put off, the greater the revenue potential. Ilya wants this to be declared AGI as soon as possible, so that it can only be utilized for the company's original principles rather than profiteering. llya winds up winning this power struggle. In fact. it's done before Microsoft can intervene, as they've declared they had no idea that this was happening, and Microsoft certainly would have incentive to delay the declaration of AGL Declaring AGI sooner means a combination of a. lack of ability for it to be licensed out to anyone (so any profits that come from its deployment are almost intrinsically going to be more societally equitable and force researchers to focus on alignment and safety as a result) as well as regulation. Imagine the news story breaking on / r /WorldNews: "Artificial General Intelligence has been invented." And it spreads throughout the grapevine the world over. inciting extreme fear in people and causing world governments to hold emergency meetings to make sure it doesn't go Skynet on us, meetings that the Safety crowd are more than willing to have held. This would not have been undertaken otherwise. Instead, we'd push forth with the current frontier models and agent sharing scheme without it being declared AGI, and OAI and Microsoft stand to profit greatly from it as a result, and for the Safety crowd. that means less regulated development of AGI, obscured by Californian principles being imbued into ChatGPrs and DALL-E's outputs so OAI can say "We do care about safety!" It likely wasn't Ilya's intention to ouster Sam, but when the revenue sharing idea was pushed and Sam argued that the tech OAI has isn't AGI or anything close, that's likely what got him to decide on this coup. The current intention by OpenAI might be to declare they have an AGI very soon, possibly within the next 6 to 8 months, maybe with the deployment of GPT-4.5 or an earlier than expected release of 5. Maybe even sooner than that. This would not be due to any sort of breakthrough; it's using tech they already have. It's just a disagreement-turned-conflagration over whether or not to call this AGl for profit's sake. * permalink * embed * save * report * reply [-]sdmat 23 points24 points25 points 13 hours ago (3 children) Interesting theory. I expected the definitional ambiguity of the AGI carveout to cause some major friction with Microsoft, but internal disagreement over it is very plausible. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Mirrorslash 23 points24 points25 points 13 hours ago (2 children) It would have caused major friction. Which is why Ilya moved so quickly. Feels like he made sure to start and end things fast enough so they were no interventions by the big money. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]SexSlaveeee 2 points3 points4 points 3 hours ago (0 children) He got my respect. I respect the people who dont not care about money. Money is cheap shit as Joker said. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]DryDevelopment8584 1 point2 points3 points 3 hours ago (0 children) He's always seemed like the most intelligent and thoughtful person at OAI * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]RKAMRR 44 points45 points46 points 13 hours ago (0 children) This is the most insightful comment I've seen on this topic, thank you for sharing. Will be keeping a razor sharp eye on OpenAI over the next few months. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]MarcusSurealius 9 points10 points11 points 12 hours ago (3 children) Remindme! 6 months * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]RemindMeBot 4 points5 points6 points 12 hours ago* (0 children) I will be messaging you in 6 months on 2024-05-18 10:35:38 UTC to remind you of this link 22 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^Parent commenter can ^delete this message to hide from others. --------------------------------------------------------------------- ^Info ^Custom ^Your Reminders ^Feedback * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]HalfRiceNCracker 0 points1 point2 points 3 hours ago (1 child) Seeing this stuff is seriously insane. This is the kind of shit we see in news articles and movies in the future. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]QVRedit 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Maybe we will get a clearer picture about it in time. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]visarga 19 points20 points21 points 11 hours ago (1 child) My thought process: Ilya is the head of AGI security research, he found out something, made a discovery. And it is bad, and they need to contain it. That's why they are acting so weird. Sam obviously doesn't care about that and wants to sell more AI. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]4TuitouSynchro 3 points4 points5 points 9 hours ago (0 children) This is my take, too * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Mirrorslash 11 points12 points13 points 13 hours ago (1 child) From all the sources we got by now this is the most likely scenario. Thanks for breaking it down thouroughly! It's gonna be interesting to see what happens next at OpenAI. If they pull out of releasing a GPT store it would definitely give this theory more credibility. The fact that Microsoft was blindsided also speaks for this. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]QVRedit 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Microsoft seemed to be buying into the commercial 'GTP's' idea at "Dev Day 2023" (6th Nov 2023) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]ShAfTsWoLo 10 points11 points12 points 12 hours ago (0 children) may illya save us all from these greedy pigs, if that's true, we need to support his vision! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]BenjaminHamnett 4 points5 points6 points 10 hours ago (0 children) I been telling people this is AGI already. Just like self driving cars, people are comparing it to the best humans, at their peak within their specialties. Like telling a phd they aren't generally intelligent cause they can't cook or drive * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]SnatchSnacker 4 points5 points6 points 6 hours ago (0 children) I know this is speculation, but this seems the most plausible explanation. Thanks. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]TrainquilOasis1423 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago (0 children) I can see the theory. However the opposite is also possible. They said they started working on GPT-5. He has always been a wide eyed idealist, and was ready to call GPT-5 AGI. Microsoft caught wind of this and made a deal with Ilya to put Sam before he could make that claim. This way GPT-5 could release without the label of AGI and can still be monetized by Microsoft. Anyone could be lying or at least trying to spin the narrative in their favor. When I think about situations like these I always follow the money. Who benefits most by Sam not being at OAI anymore? Microsoft. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]spinozasrobot 1 point2 points3 points 10 hours ago (0 children) So much of what's been posted over the last 12 hours has been utter crap, but this is a pretty well reasoned take. I look forward to your TedTALK :) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]gizmosticles 1 point2 points3 points 9 hours ago (0 children) Very solid perspective share * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]solipsistic_twit 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago (0 children) Remindme! 6 months * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]theywereonabreak69 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago (2 children) I see how you're connecting the dots but it's a bit sensational. My guess is you're right about the thought process but no crazy breakthrough was made yet. Illya didn't "discover" anything, he just saw Dev Day as a precursor to what Altman would do to commercialize the business and wanted to make sure he didn't have the chance at some point in the future when AGI is achieved. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]cloroformnapkin 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Entirely plausible. We will have to wait and see. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]QVRedit 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Dev Day was definitely talking about some level of commercialisation. Of course if OpenAI does not do this, other companies will. The 'GTP's' mentioned seemed to be a step in that direction. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Dafunkbacktothefunk -1 points0 points1 point 12 hours ago (0 children) They're all going to jail - this is the first step * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]arjuna66671 -2 points-1 points0 points 13 hours ago (2 children) But according to Altmans writeup/blog, he seemed to be the non profit guy... * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]Mirrorslash 6 points7 points8 points 13 hours ago (1 child) The non profit guy with no equity that tried his hardest to monetize GPT and seek the highest funding possible. I like what I've seen from Sam but he always had that "I'm gonna prove everyone that ever doubted me or AGI wrong" energy. His ego is definitely a safety concern. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]arjuna66671 1 point2 points3 points 11 hours ago (0 children) Sounds reasonable, yeah... * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [+]Careful-Temporary388 comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points 12 hours ago (2 children) You live in a world of fiction. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]cloroformnapkin 4 points5 points6 points 12 hours ago (0 children) Articulate? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]SnatchSnacker 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago (0 children) Damn. Thanks for your contribution to this discussion * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply [-]QVRedit 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Well the current 'ChatGTP4 Turbo' is said to be an improvement, but still limited. Though obviously it's clever enough to support a number of real world applications. But Sam said it's not yet AGI - that is still some way off. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * reply * about * blog * about * advertising * careers * help * site rules * Reddit help center * reddiquette * mod guidelines * contact us * apps & tools * Reddit for iPhone * Reddit for Android * mobile website * <3 * reddit premium Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. (c) 2023 reddit inc. All rights reserved. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. [pixel] p Rendered by PID 188250 on reddit-service-r2-loggedout-cff59bdc7-l7nmx at 2023-11-18 23:02:20.179856+00:00 running 2542059 country code: US.