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It only takes a minute to sign up. Sign up to join this community [ano] Anybody can ask a question [ano] Anybody can answer [an] The best answers are voted up and rise to the top Electrical Engineering 1. Home 2. 1. Public 2. Questions 3. Tags 4. Users 5. Unanswered 3. Teams Stack Overflow for Teams - Start collaborating and sharing organizational knowledge. [teams-illo-free-si] Create a free Team Why Teams? 4. Teams 5. Create free Team Teams Q&A for work Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Learn more about Teams Using clothesline steel core wire rope for AC and DC Ask Question Asked today Modified today Viewed 45k times 51 \$\begingroup\$ As I am currently in a war zone, I don't have many options for cabling. I found this clothesline (steel core plastic wire rope) that appears to be one mm of diameter (steel core diameter.) 13 meters of it measured 7 ohms resistance. enter image description here 1. Can it carry AC 120 or 240 volts and for how far? 2. How many of it (doubling it) can carry DC 18V and 15 amperes from a solar panel arrays 10 to 15 meters away from the inverter (charge controller)? (20W panels with open circuit voltage of 21V). This is just temporary solution and I hope only for few days or weeks. Air strikes blew up some transformers and high voltage lines and our concrete homes are not designed to be habitable without AC power. * ac * dc * safety * wiring * solar-energy Share Cite Follow edited 55 mins ago daveloyall's user avatar daveloyall 31122 silver badges77 bronze badges asked 15 hours ago Amr Berag's user avatar Amr BeragAmr Berag 39111 gold badge33 silver badges1010 bronze badges \$\endgroup\$ 13 * 2 \$\begingroup\$ I see a few issues, with waste energy due to high resistance, with possible temperature rise, which will eventually affect the safety level: isolation material and isolation level aren't guaranteed. McGyver would employ it successfully to power a nuclear power plant, real life urges us to be cautionary, and use the proper type of electrical cable. \$\endgroup\$ - LuC 14 hours ago * 1 \$\begingroup\$ An option could be to remove unused/unusable electrical cable from elsewhere inside the house? Especially if it's inside conduit and can be easily pulled through. \$\endgroup \$ - SomeoneSomewhereSupportsMonica 13 hours ago * 1 \$\begingroup\$ @SomeoneSomewhereSupportsMonica Yes. we already done that but not over do it because we hope the power will be restored. \$\endgroup\$ - Amr Berag 13 hours ago * 1 \$\begingroup\$ @AmrBerag I missed the reason for which you did that: in that case, electrical shocks are the least of your problems. I think that wire should be fine for your purpose (paralleling it enough, as commented below), just insulate it more when it runs near metal structures. Stay safe, and good luck \$\endgroup\$ - LuC 10 hours ago * 1 \$\begingroup\$ (No offence intended: In for how long?, do you want a duration or a distance?) \$\endgroup\$ - greybeard 5 hours ago | Show 8 more comments 6 Answers 6 Sorted by: Reset to default [Highest score (default) ] 29 \$\begingroup\$ Steel, having just around 10 times higher resistivity than copper means it will take ten times the conductor area to match copper. If you measured 13 meter of it to 7 O, the cross sectional area would be 0.026 mm^2. Either I made a calculation error or the contact resistance was significant. To answer your questions: 1. Probably many years. Could be lethal though. As stated below by Martin, your best bet is to put the inverter is close to the panels as you can and run AC though the clothesline. 2. With just one, carrying 15 A via 7 O means a 105 V drop, so not possible with 18 V at all. It would also melt. To make it work at 18 V, perhaps 20 % drop (3.6 V) could be tolerated. To get down to 3.6 V drop, you would need 105/3.6 = 29 in parallel. Share Cite Follow edited 3 hours ago answered 14 hours ago winny's user avatar winnywinny 11.6k66 gold badges4343 silver badges6161 bronze badges \$\endgroup\$ 7 * \$\begingroup\$ Thank you. I can't figure out how to account for the distance in this formula? Can i try to shorten the distance to 5-10 meters and give each 20w panel a separate clothesline wie to be combined into or near the controller's input? \$\endgroup\$ - Amr Berag 14 hours ago * 5 \$\begingroup\$ @AmrBerag Distance will affect your voltage drop linearly. Half the distance and you can use half as many wires in parallel for a given voltage drop. Do you have an inverter to 120 /230 V AC? If yes, place that as close to the panels as you can and do the long wiring on the 120/230 V side. \$\endgroup\$ - winny 14 hours ago * 1 \$\begingroup\$ No, 13 meter from your 7 ohm measurement. \$\ endgroup\$ - winny 14 hours ago * 1 \$\begingroup\$ Ok sorry now I understand because 7 ohms was the resistance of the 13 meters sample. \$\endgroup\$ - Amr Berag 14 hours ago * 1 \$\begingroup\$ @AmrBerag, be sure to consider these suggestions another user made regarding your solar array: electronics.stackexchange.com/a/664579 \$\endgroup\$ - daveloyall 3 hours ago | Show 2 more comments 9 \$\begingroup\$ Agree with winny to put the inverter next to the solar panels if possible and send 230V AC (standard in Sudan) over the clothesline, despite it being more dangerous. If you need to transfer 1000W of power, it loses less to clotheline resistance when transferred at a higher voltage. 1000W = * 55 amps @ 18 volts * 4 amps @ 230 volts Power lost through clothesline is (Current)^2 * (Resistance). So chosing the lower 4 amps current is much less loss (~200x). The power lost disapates as heat in the clotheline, at some point it will burn, so it's not just about efficiency--using 230V is necessary to get this to work. You can probably carry 1-2kW with 1mm core wire at 230V AC. This is a window-unit air conditioner and some light bulbs or a couple large fans. Maybe a microwave for short periods of time. Carefully observe for smoke of the clothesline insulator and shut off immediately. If this happens you need to run less equipment in the house at the same time or run more parallel lines. Use your home-harvested copper wire for the 18V DC connection between the panels and the AC inverter. Share Cite Follow edited 5 hours ago answered 5 hours ago Martin McCormick's user avatar Martin McCormickMartin McCormick 9133 bronze badges New contributor Martin McCormick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering. Check out our Code of Conduct. \$\endgroup\$ 1 * 1 \$\begingroup\$ A garden hose, PVC pipe or other insulating tubes may be used to provide an outer jacket of insulation, increasing general safety. Running a ground wire and/or scavenging a GFCI and using a grounded structure from a nearby home may also provide additional safety. \$\endgroup\$ - Xunie 1 hour ago Add a comment | 5 \$\begingroup\$ 1. The AC side should be OK, as others have noted. 2. As winny notes, you'll have a problem trying to carry 15 DC amps. However, I see you're using an array of 20W panels. You said 18V and 15A, so 270 watts; I'm going to round and guess you have 14 panels in parallel. Can you connect them in series instead of parallel, giving you a high voltage and low current? * 14x1 configuration would give you 252V and about one amp, a 7V drop over the measured 7 ohms or 3% loss. * 7x2 would be ~125V at 2A, a 14V drop so still only about 11% loss. You'll of course have to check whether your transformer can handle the input. You'll also have less shade tolerance than in the parallel configuration, but that sounds like the least of your worries. I just used your measurement at 13 meters for resistance. 7/13 is about .54 ohms per meter. If the panels are 15 meters away from the inverter, that's a 30m round trip, so closer to 16 ohms. That's still probably fine, or one doubling gets you back to the numbers above. Share Cite Follow answered 5 hours ago Andrew Veritas's user avatar Andrew VeritasAndrew Veritas 5111 bronze badge New contributor Andrew Veritas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering. Check out our Code of Conduct. \$\endgroup\$ Add a comment | 3 \$\begingroup\$ I'm not an electrician, but I can help with the circuit analysis. The formula for resistance is: $$R = \rho \frac L A$$ where \$\rho\$ is the resistivity of the steel, \$L\$ is the length of the wire, and \$A\$ is the cross-sectional area of the wire. The first question is whether your resistance measurement is correct. Measuring small resistances with a two-wire multimeter is hard due to the resistance of the leads. You also (for testing and use) need to make sure you have good contact with the wire. The surface of metals oxidizes, which can add resistance to a weak connection. Your measurement of 7 ohms for 13 meters give a resistivity of: $$\rho = \frac {R A}{L} = \frac {7\Omega \cdot \pi \cdot (0.5 \mathrm {mm})^2} {13 \mathrm m} = 4.23 \times 10^{-7} \Omega \cdot \mathrm m$$ which seems to be in the right range according to this and other sources, so your measurement seems reasonable. But you didn't say how you're doing the measurement. Resistance is linear with distance -- halve the length of the wire and you halve its resistance. Double the length of the wire and you double its resistance. Two wires in parallel will have half the resistance of one, three wires will have a third of the resistance of one, and so forth. Your wire seems to be \$0.5385\ \Omega/\mathrm m\$ . If you want to make a cable with around 1 ohm of resistance, you could use: * 1.85 meters of 1 wire * 3.7 meters of 2 wires in parallel * 7.4 meters of 4 wires in parallel * etc. If you want to carry your large 15 amp current, you'll need to go lower. Maybe a 0.1 ohm cable can work: * 1 meter of 6 wires in parallel * 2 meters of 12 wires in parallel * 4 meters of 24 wires in parallel * etc. For comparison, copper's resistivity is around \$1.7 \times 10^{-8} \ Omega\cdot\mathrm m\$. Your steel's resistivity is around 25 times higher. Aluminum is almost as good as copper at \$2.7 \times 10^{-8} \Omega\ cdot\mathrm m\$, so if you find any aluminum wire (or long strips of aluminum if you get desperate) that would be much better than steel. Be sure to insulate -- high currents can be just as dangerous as high voltages if they get shorted out or the connection suddenly breaks. Good luck! I hope your situation improves soon. Share Cite Follow answered 3 hours ago Adam Haun's user avatar Adam HaunAdam Haun 21.1k44 gold badges4949 silver badges8787 bronze badges \$\endgroup\$ Add a comment | 1 \$\begingroup\$ Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35730074 Credit: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=ltbarcly3 TLDR: connections must be protected by some kind of anti oxidation coating, if you have nothing else use grease but something designed for electrical connections is better. If you have nothing else, melt some lead and dip the exposed part of the wire in that to coat it. Lead should be readily available in a war zone? Long term the wire WILL melt at some random point along the wire so it is much better if this wire is kept away from anything flammable. The risks of using steel cable for power are going to be corrosion/ rust. The primary way this will cause problems is around connections, but long term it is also an issue away from connections. At connections, corrosion can cause the wire to become loose, something like ox-gard can be used to delay this significantly. It isn't designed for steel but some kind of protection must be done at connections or arcing will be a major risk. Longer term the wire itself will rust, and at some point the conductive cross section of the wire will be compromised to the point it overheats and melts. This might be a year and it might be 100 years depending on factors which are hard to predict and control. Share Cite Follow answered 5 hours ago joelparkerhenderson's user avatar joelparkerhendersonjoelparkerhenderson 11933 bronze badges New contributor joelparkerhenderson is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering. Check out our Code of Conduct. \$\endgroup\$ Add a comment | -2 \$\begingroup\$ If you have access to lead or Tin. 1. Strip cloth line to get the steel core (Blade) (If burned, scrub so the outer oxidation is removed). 2. Vasiline or try other available items to be used as a flux. Cover steel wire with the hack-flux. 3. Run Dip the wire in lead , you can also pull the wire through the molten lead. 4. Once lead is cooled, do the same with enamel or use carefully keeping distance between +/- The outer lead will do the conduction, inner steel provides the mechanical support. Share Cite Follow edited 5 hours ago answered 5 hours ago Avola's user avatar AvolaAvola 911 bronze badge New contributor Avola is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering. Check out our Code of Conduct. \$\endgroup\$ 1 * 6 \$\begingroup\$ Note the OP's circumstances: War zone. \$\ endgroup\$ - DKNguyen 5 hours ago Add a comment | Your Answer [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange! * Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research! But avoid ... * Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. * Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. 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