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Become a Redditor and join one of thousands of communities. x 2046 2047 2048 NewsQualcomm has open sourced its aptX and aptX HD encoders, making them freely available to Android OEMs. Here's what that means. ( self.Android) submitted 3 days ago * by MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9 I got so bogged down in details that I sat on this story for months, but in the interest of the community, I'd like to confirm that the encoders for Qualcomm's proprietary aptX and aptX HD Bluetooth codecs are now part of AOSP. Here's what this means for Android A few months back, I spotted a patch submitted to AOSP by a Qcom engineer called "add encoder for aptX and encoder for aptX HD source code." aptX and aptX HD codecs are proprietary to Qualcomm, so OEMs would previously acquire them directly from them. I don't know what, if any, certification programs OEMs had to complete, or how much in licensing fees they had to pay, to obtain permission from Qualcomm to ship aptX and aptX HD encoders in their Android products. One article says that at least in 2014, there was a $6,000 one-time payment and ~$1 per-device fee for batches of up to 10k devices. That info came from Silicon Laboratories, a fabless semiconductor firm that designs many Bluetooth products. The Wikipedia article on aptX, before my edit, falsely claimed that the aptX & aptX HD encoders were added to AOSP in Android 10 and could be freely used by OEMs. That was NOT true at the time. The claim was added in December 2019 but was a misreading of an AndroidAuthority article on BT codecs. What is true is that since Android 8.0, the Bluetooth A2DP stack added support for loading AAC, aptX, aptX HD, and LDAC codecs IF they were present in the build. As noted in the AOSP docs, "device manufacturers may need to obtain separate licenses and binary blobs for some proprietary audio codecs." This is where I fell down a rabbit hole of licensing and patents. AAC isn't free? LDAC needs certification? Etc. I'm done with that rabbit hole. I even briefly tried using ChatGPT to help me draft some of this article, but the tone/voice just didn't feel right to me, lol. Anyway, when it comes to aptX/HD, OEMs would obtain encoders compatible with AOSP right from Qualcomm. For example, on Pixel phones prior to Android 13 QPR2, you could find precompiled aptX and aptX HD encoders as shared libraries in / system_ext/lib64. Starting in Android 13 QPR2, those shared libraries are no longer there, as they are compiled statically into the Bluetooth APEX. I believe that going forward, any OEM that ships the Bluetooth APEX in their AOSP-based project will have the aptX and aptX HD encoders available in their end product by default. There is even a new MTS test (Mainline Test Suite) for this. Of course, just because there is source code for something doesn't make it open source. That depends on the license. To clarify this, I reached out directly to Qualcomm a few months back, and got the following statement (for context, in early November 2022): "We made the decision a few months back to include the encoders for classic aptX and aptX HD in the Android Open Source Project. The technology is known the world over as THE superior audio codec for wireless BT audio, and we have worked closely with both Google and individual OEM's over the years to include these codecs in Android-based products. We are excited to say that under license from Qualcomm, these encoders are indeed now available under AOSP pursuant to the CLA's in place. As aptX codecs continue to be the leader in delivering superior audio quality, and with our introduction of Snapdragon Sound in March 2021, Qualcomm is committed to ensuring we deliver premium audio experiences, the lowest possible latencies, and the best connectivity solutions available. As per our usual business processes, the licensing of aptX, Snapdragon Sound and the underlying technologies, will continue to remain unchanged apart from contributing the aptX and aptX HD encoders to AOSP." And just to be extra extra sure, I asked Qualcomm to explicitly name the license and what products are covered: "There are inbound and outbound licenses to the project of course. Once officially approved by Google - which we expect in the coming days since these were just recently submitted - the encoders will be offered under the outbound AOSP (Apache) license." "The purpose of the contribution is to enable people to distribute the encoders as part of their finished products. The only Qualcomm products included in this release for Android are aptX and aptX HD ENCODERS. All other aptX products require a license direct from Qualcomm." So there you go, you no longer need to go through Qualcomm if you want to include an aptX and/or aptX HD encoder in your ANDROID product, so long as you utilize the code in AOSP licensed under Apache v2.0. This is great news for hobbyist custom ROM developers as well, as previously they'd have to just rip the shared libraries from a precompiled build (with questionable legality). Now you can just compile them from AOSP sources. And yes, they do work as shared libraries if you change the blueprint to compile them as such. Here's the source code in AOSP if you're interested: Encoder for aptX | Encoder for aptX High Definition Since I know most of you have devices that support aptX and aptX HD already, you're wondering why you should care. Well, for most users, this doesn't matter. It's a change that affects OEMs for the most part. Surprisingly there are some devices that don't have either aptX or aptX HD, though. My NVIDIA SHIELD TV, for example, only supports aptX but not aptX HD. * 184 comments * share * save * hide * report all 184 comments sorted by: best topnewcontroversialoldrandomq&alive (beta) [ ] Want to add to the discussion? Post a comment! Create an account [-]StarksPixel 7 545 points546 points547 points 3 days ago (70 children) What Bluetooth really needs is a low-latency, high-quality way to simultaneously transmit stereo audio and voice. The PS4 had this figured out almost a decade ago. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]HaMMeReD 245 points246 points247 points 3 days ago (8 children) Yeah, Bluetooth SCO (mono audio, bi-directional, low bitrate) is really super ghetto. I have the work with it sometimes and occasionally get bugs where headsets get stuck in SCO mode and Spotify ends up sounding like AM radio after you've been on the highway for 4 hours and are in the middle of nowhere. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]grishkaaGoogle Pixel 4a 42 points43 points44 points 3 days ago (0 children) It's not just the low bitrate that makes it sound terrible, it's the low sample rate (8000 Hz probably) that cuts off high frequencies. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]UnsafestSpaceXiaomi Mi Max 3 - Android 9.0 Pie (Treble) 94 points 95 points96 points 3 days ago (5 children) Yo this happens even with the latest Airpods paired to the latest Macbooks, it shouldn't be a thing in 2023. God knows how no company can get it right. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]JesusWantsYouToKnow 73 points74 points75 points 3 days ago (0 children) It is really a problem of the entire Bluetooth protocol and ecosystem; to steal a similar analogy the biggest issue with Bluetooth is all the baggage it brings with it from older versions of the spec to retain backwards compatibility similar to the way windows has to do a bunch of stupid shit to keep apps working that ran systems as far back as Windows 95. What we need is a clean break with a modern protocol focused on the sorts of problems Bluetooth devices have been trying to solve (security, painless pairing, low latency, low energy use, higher throughput, full duplex communication). Doing so would unfortunately mean that all of your old devices you expect to work won't, like your car, so to pull it off we'll probably have to develop dual stack devices that fall back to Bluetooth when they must. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]HaMMeReD 29 points30 points31 points 3 days ago (0 children) I think there is a lot of complexity in both devices doing RX and TX (input + output). When one device is TX and one is RX, it makes sense you'd have more bandwidth available because you don't need to share it. I'm sure they can do better, but I don't as soon as you add TX to the headset, RX quality is going to drop. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]CallMeHollywood 14 points15 points16 points 3 days ago (0 children) This is just one of the many 'features' I love about my Sony WF-1000XM3s as well * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ldn-ldn 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago (0 children) Because Bluetooth is not designed for that. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]bibober 68 points69 points70 points 3 days ago (0 children) Still can't believe such a simple thing is not part of bluetooth by default in 2023. They really need this, and it needs to be a mandatory part of the default bluetooth stack so it's supported on PCs too. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]SnipingNinja 19 points20 points21 points 3 days ago (15 children) What did PS4 do? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]StarksPixel 7 95 points96 points97 points 3 days ago (14 children) Low-latency, high-quality way to simultaneously transmit stereo audio and voice. Did it over proprietary Bluetooth protocol and the audio jack on the controller. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]SnipingNinja 17 points18 points19 points 3 days ago (9 children) Aah, I thought the protocol they used was known, if it was proprietary then I guess we can't expect it to be shared as an industry standard * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]chupitoelpameGalaxy Fold4 64 points65 points66 points 3 days ago (6 children) I mean, yeah but if Sony managed to do it then it over the existing protocol there is no excuse for the Bluetooth alliance or however they are called to not figure out a way to do it standard. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Deathwatch72 6 points7 points8 points 2 days ago (0 children) there is no excuse for the Bluetooth alliance Software licenses and patents are a whole realm of special bullshit they might just not want to get sued or involved in something that even has the potential to get them sued Just because Sony did it doesn't mean you can do it the same way now * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Kupfakura 10 points11 points12 points 3 days ago (4 children) Patience my friend. Bluetooth 6 will have it figured out * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]DontCareBoutRepostsGalaxy S21 30 points31 points32 points 2 days ago (1 child) Bluetooth n+1 has been the answer to our problems for decades now. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]FlyNo7114 17 points18 points19 points 3 days ago (0 children) Once out will take years for adoption * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]anthr0x1028Pixel 4a 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago (0 children) just wait until bluetooth 6e comes after that... * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]FlaringAfroS22U 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (1 child) If you mean shared for free then no, but Sony already does share LDAC. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]SnipingNinja 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (0 children) Not for free, but shared with payment? Or maybe free on one end but not on the other, like this and LDAC. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Turok1134 5 points6 points7 points 2 days ago (3 children) Is it high-quality? Sounded fine to me whenever I used it, but I'd often hear people gripe about how bad it sounded compared to the Xbox One equivalent. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Slitted13PM + A52 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (2 children) Xbox controllers use 2.4G so they definitely have more room to work with. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Natanael_LXperia 1 III (main), Samsung S9, TabPro 8.4 3 points4 points5 points 2 days ago (0 children) Bluetooth is also on the 2.4 Ghz spectrum * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]oathbreakerkeeper 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) What does ps4/Bluetooth use as opposed to 2.4gh * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]frzme 11 points12 points13 points 3 days ago (6 children) This should be possible with Bluetooth LE Audio. Maybe it requires usage of LC3 codec but I think not. There are however to my knowledge no audio devices that support it so far. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]IohetV10 is the original notch 4 points5 points6 points 3 days ago (2 children) No current support and LC3 isn't a high res codec, just an SBC replacement. Raises the floor, not the ceiling * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Andraltoid 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (0 children) Lc3 is on par with aptx tho. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]CaptainDetritus 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (0 children) High res enough for most I think. And there's LC3Plus which is high res, if your devices's manufacturer chooses to license it. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]CaptainDetritus 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (2 children) A couple models of buds I think and some more that are "ready" for it with a firmware upgrade. No way to test any of them yet afaik. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]frzme 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (1 child) I bought the Sony LinkBuds S on that premise but currently it's very unclear to me what features will become available with the LE Audio firmware * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]CaptainDetritus 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (0 children) The messaging from pretty much every manufacturer has been shit basically. Samsung seems to think it's a more pressing use case to use LE Audio to record audio from the mics on the buds than it is to use it to stream to the buds. Weird. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]deten 8 points9 points10 points 3 days ago (0 children) This so much, I cannot believe its 2023 and we have this horrible system as really the only option. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]andyooo 10 points11 points12 points 2 days ago (0 children) The new LE Audio Telephony and Media Audio Profile (TMAP), if I'm reading the "32_2" corretly on the spec pdf, has mandatory support for high-ish quality stereo (32 kHz sampling rate). See here for more info and a link to the pdf. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]190nPixel 6 33 points34 points35 points 3 days ago (14 children) just use opus (tm) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Andraltoid 26 points27 points28 points 2 days ago (6 children) Google actually added opus as a bluetooth codec in the latest android versions. Now we just need headphone support. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]andyooo 9 points10 points11 points 2 days ago (4 children) It is being used with my P7 Pro (and probably all P6 and P7's) and Pixel Buds Pro, but afaict only for spatial audio. Probably for lower latency for head tracking. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 3 points4 points5 points 2 days ago (1 child) Probably for lower latency for head tracking. That's exactly correct. "When dynamic spatial audio and head tracking are on, use a low-latency codec, such as Opus." Source. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]andyooo 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) Thanks. Interesting that they seem to be implying that AAC is lower power than Opus. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Sparky600Pixel 7 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (1 child) I have spatial audio enabled on my P7, but so far what I've seen online is that there is no support for spatial audio on Spotify. Is this true? I use my xm4's for music so idk if they also need to support spatial audio or specific codecs that support spatial audio. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]andyooo 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) From what I can tell, the Google version of spatial audio only works on 5.1 multi-channel, so unless Spotify starts streaming that kind of content and makes the app compatible with Google's spatial audio, or Google updates it to work on stereo, it doesn't work. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]QuackdocTech 3 points4 points5 points 2 days ago (0 children) Linux via pipewire also has it's own implementation using it, they two are not yet compatible as far as I am aware. I dont have a device to test with though * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago* (0 children) Absolutely, death to proprietary codecs after they removed the jack but where are the headphones with opus support. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]grishkaaGoogle Pixel 4a 4 points5 points6 points 3 days ago (4 children) Just stream raw PCM, modern bluetooth offers enough bandwidth to handle it and then some * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Natanael_LXperia 1 III (main), Samsung S9, TabPro 8.4 34 points35 points36 points 3 days ago (0 children) You do want compression though, it allows you to use better error correction, as well as saving energy by using less energy for a lower bandwidth transmission (less % of time spent transmitting). * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Breadfish64 17 points18 points19 points 2 days ago* (1 child) You get 2 Mbps max, and raw CD quality is 1.4 Mbps. It's theoretically possible, but I'm doing a project with BLE microcontrollers like the ones you'd find in headphones, and it's not so easy to achieve in practice. LDAC tops out at 990 kbp. I suspect Sony figured out they couldn't push it much further without sacrificing reliability. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]andyooo 8 points9 points10 points 2 days ago (0 children) That's the limit of Bluetooth LE starting from BT 5. For Bluetooth Classic (older but still used radio and which A2DP uses) it's 3 Mbps (BT 2.1 + EDR). But as we know, theoretical limits are not nearly close to what is achievable in practical terms even in close to ideal conditions. Also, soon we'll be switching to BT LE Audio (OnePlus already has a set of earphones for it), and the theoretical limit would drop to 2Mbps I suppose. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Drwankingstein 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago (0 children) not really, bluetooth only really consistently gets 700-800kbps on most hardware. even Ldac's 990kbps is rare and it typically either falls down to the lower tier, or becomes a choppy mess. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]SidewaysNB 17 points18 points19 points 3 days ago (10 children) Yeah I was hoping this release also included aptX-LL. I want low-latency audio for gaming but so few phones support aptX-LL that I haven't bothered. I just use the speakers or 3.5mm. Is LDAC worth a hoot? Is BT 5.0 worth a hoot? I'm tired of experimenting and failing * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]foremi 24 points25 points26 points 3 days ago* (2 children) LDAC is fantastic, it just doesn't have that widespread of support. My es100, Audeze mobius and soon Audeze maxwell support ldac and it rocks. EDIT/NOTE... LDAC is not low latency, so don't bother for gaming. It's an audio quality first codec. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Nihilistic_Mystics 11 points12 points13 points 2 days ago (0 children) LDAC struggles with stability if you're not within extremely close range and direct line of sight. If you have both of those things then it's the best possible option, assuming you can get it to stay in the high quality mode. The second you're not within those narrow conditions then the quality downgrades and AptX HD tend to be both better and more stable. I've been able to walk across a production floor (with metal frames and such in the way) and AptX HD will stay connected. For LDAC I can only get a few feet away before several quality downgrades to the point where it's not worth it anymore. So, LDAC if you're at a desk and not moving, AptX HD for everything else. I still very much appreciate Sony for pushing the boundaries of Bluetooth audio quality. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]LaCipe 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) It solved all of my latency issues on my shield pro 2019, which I had with other bt headphones, so there is that * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]bradshNote 2 Stock, Nexus 7 cm10.1 24 points25 points26 points 3 days ago (3 children) LL was unfortunately discontinued by Qualcomm. AptX adaptive is all that remains and it unfortunately has more latency than LL but probably less clicking and microsecond dropouts which I assume is why Qualcomm moved away from LL along with LL requiring dedicated antenna hardware * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]SidewaysNB 9 points10 points11 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Oh I didn't know it was discontinued. I'll stop banking my hopes and dreams on it lol * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]bradshNote 2 Stock, Nexus 7 cm10.1 8 points9 points10 points 3 days ago (0 children) Yeah it's tragic. I've got a decent amount of LL dedicated hardware because it's basically necessary for my requirements * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Nihilistic_Mystics 5 points6 points7 points 2 days ago (0 children) A big reason was that LL was truly garbage quality. For calls it was fine, but for music it was really bad. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Andraltoid 11 points12 points13 points 2 days ago* (0 children) No phones support aptx-ll. It required a separate antenna that interfered with Bluetooth. Bluetooth 5 changes nothing for audio. Bluetooth 5.2 introduced lc3 (low latency, low bitrate, energy efficient codec) but it's not mandatory. Almost nothing supports lc3 right now. Aptx adaptive has low latency but not as low as ll. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MyNameIs-Anthony 11 points12 points13 points 3 days ago (0 children) As someone who definitively isn't an audiophile but prefers wired headphones due to noticeably quality difference from wireless audio, LDAC has made a world of difference. SBC-HQ is also solid. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]CosmicSploogeDrizzlePixel 6 Pro, GW3, Pixel Watch Soon 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) Only thing I found that has worked for me was the gaming mode on my razer hammerheads. I'd love to upgrade to something more modern but without reliable low latency I find myself just sticking with what I have. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]YouDamnHotdog 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (1 child) I think mSBC tried to get close to that. It can be configged in linux, not in Windows afaik. Android, no idea * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]urmamasllamaPurple 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) MSBC is much better but I'm sure it can still be improved upon. The existence of sbc-hq gives me hope * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]SoNic67 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (2 children) AptX Low Latency. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Schmensch- 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (1 child) Afaik aptX LL is deprecated and is merged into aptX adaptive * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]9gxa05s8fa8shS10 [score hidden] 2 hours ago (0 children) adaptive includes LL in it as an option, so no LL branding anymore, but it's still LL * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Jumpy-Clue-583 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (2 children) Yes, Aptx Adaptive. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) Adaptive Not good. https://old.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/sa0x2e/ psa_not_all_aptx_adaptive_products_are_the_same/ * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]StarksPixel 7 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) And this works for voice chat in games? I would get full stereo and voice at the same time? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]PrismSub7 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (0 children) The only real solution is adding a cellular/wifi modem to the headset. Bluetooth won't fix this. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]PrettyShart 112 points113 points114 points 3 days ago (2 children) Man, I gotta tell you, I really appreciate your work. Saw one of your old posts here a while back and was blown away by the detail. Happy to since then see you get recognized by media and such, not sure how you made it happen or your background but I'm appreciative of a knowledgeable person sharing knowledge. Kudos to you and I hope you have a great day. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 42 points43 points44 points 3 days ago (0 children) Thanks for the kind words! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Odd-Negotiation-9165 15 points16 points17 points 2 days ago (0 children) Mishaal is the biggest source of Android enthusiast news and he leaves no stone unturned when writing up these articles. No one comes close to the level of detail he is single handedly providing. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 141 points142 points143 points 3 days ago (19 children) Okay, so apparently, there are a lot more Android devices without aptX HD encoder suppport than I thought there were. Someone in my Telegram group said that Samsung phones don't support aptX HD, and Max Weinbach checked his S23 Ultra and indeed, it isn't listed as an option. Apparently the brand new Honor Magic5 Pro doesn't support either aptX or aptX HD, so there's another flagship device without support. This change won't force Samsung and other Android OEMs to use aptX or aptX HD, but if it's included by default in AOSP, then why not? Though, the Bluetooth module isn't mandatory (yet) as far as I know, but this may mean that eventually all Android devices will support aptX and aptX HD. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]IzacusAndroid dev / Boatload of crappy devices 59 points60 points 61 points 3 days ago (6 children) Hey, just because the encoders are open source it doesn't mean the codec patents are free. Audio and video codecs are heavily patent encumbered and Qualcomm requires OEMs to pay patent licenses to enable AptX (even if encoder itself it open source!!) This is why Opus, AV1 and VP9 are such a big deal - Google and Xiph explicitly waive the patent licensing besides proving an OSS encoder. Please don't mix patent licensing of a codec with opening of the source for the decoders or encoders. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 24 points25 points26 points 3 days ago* (4 children) Hey, just because the encoders are open source it doesn't mean the codec patents are free. I didn't say the codec patents are now free in general. You still have to obtain a separate license direct from Qualcomm (and pay whatever fee that entails) for all other aptX products on all other platforms, but according to the statement Qualcomm gave me, you don't have to obtain a license from Qualcomm to distribute the new aptX and aptX HD encoders available in AOSP. Please don't mix patent licensing of a codec with opening of the source for the decoders or encoders. I asked Qualcomm if OEMs have to obtain a license to use the newly open sourced aptX and aptX HD encoders in their AOSP products, and this is what they said: "The purpose of the contribution is to enable people to distribute the encoders as part of their finished products. The only Qualcomm products included in this release for Android are aptX and aptX HD ENCODERS. All other aptX products require a license direct from Qualcomm." If there is still a licensing fee involved, they didn't tell me. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]IzacusAndroid dev / Boatload of crappy devices 30 points31 points 32 points 3 days ago (1 child) They're being awfully lawyery with the "license for encoders" wording. And not mentioning anything about patent royalties. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 9 points10 points11 points 3 days ago (0 children) Indeed... * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Natanael_LXperia 1 III (main), Samsung S9, TabPro 8.4 12 points13 points14 points 2 days ago (1 child) If there is still a licensing fee involved, they didn't tell me. There's an interesting bit in the Apache license; https://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0 Grant of Patent License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, each Contributor hereby grants to You a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable (except as stated in this section) patent license to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and otherwise transfer the Work, where such license applies only to those patent claims licensable by such Contributor that are necessarily infringed by their Contribution(s) alone or by combination of their Contribution(s) with the Work to which such Contribution(s) was submitted. If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to You under this License for that Work shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) That is interesting * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]DioEgizio 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) Apache 2 has an explicit patent grant * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]IAMSHADOWBANKINGGUY 40 points41 points42 points 3 days ago* (6 children) why not? Samsung has a vested interest in keeping people in its ecosystem and this could cut interest in the galaxy buds. Why buy galaxy buds for Samsung seamless codec if the phone supports aptx and aptxHD? This sounds good for [DEL:the pixel line and:DEL] other mid range phones that currently only support AAC or SBC though Edit: That was wrong * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 35 points36 points37 points 3 days ago (4 children) This sounds good for the pixel line and other mid range phones that currently only support AAC or SBC though. Slight correction, but most Pixels support aptX, aptX HD, and LDAC. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]IAMSHADOWBANKINGGUY 6 points7 points8 points 3 days ago (0 children) Oh shit you're right wtf?? I need to mess with my pixel more now. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]NukleonPixel 6 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago (2 children) Wish more devices support it. My Shokz OpenRun don't, but maybe with this a future Shokz product will? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 8 points9 points10 points 3 days ago (1 child) This is only for the encoders that are on your phone, not the decoders that are on your Bluetooth headphone/earbuds. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]NukleonPixel 6 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago (0 children) Whomp whomp. Guess i can wait for BT LE Audio... Any day now * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]SpiderStratagemPixel 6 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (0 children) Why buy galaxy buds for Samsung seamless codec if the phone supports aptx and aptxHD? Spot on. This is the primary reason I don't have Google/Pixel buds. My Pixel 6 supports aptX, aptX HD, and LDAC, so why would I buy buds that don't? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]HaMMeReD 8 points9 points10 points 3 days ago (1 child) It's stupid of them to charge both the consumer and producer side. Producers won't want to use these standards if consumers don't have it available. They should be charging the licensing on the headset side, not the phone side. People buy headphones for their phone, they don't buy phones to match their headphones. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 13 points14 points15 points 3 days ago (0 children) It's stupid of them to charge both the consumer and producer side. Producers won't want to use these standards if consumers don't have it available. Well, you say it's stupid, but aptX-compatible headphones/audio products are everywhere, so there was a lot of pressure for Android OEMs to pay the licensing fee and include encoders. Qualcomm makes a lot of money from patents/licensing, so why miss out on that money? They should be charging the licensing on the headset side, not the phone side. People buy headphones for their phone, they don't buy phones to match their headphones. Opening up the encoder makes sense when you want to drive adoption in the ecosystem overall. It's why Sony opened up their LDAC encoder and only require a simple certification program to ship it in Android devices, but shipping an LDAC decoder in Bluetooth audio devices still presumably requires a licensing fee. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Andraltoid 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (0 children) Btw, you can check all products with aptx here: https://www.aptx.com/ product-listing * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Spenguy 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (0 children) Out of curiosity, which one would you recommend on the S23 Ultra for the best experience? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]AtomicBombSquadLG V35 ThinQ & Motorola G7 Power 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (0 children) I checked both of my phones, an LG V35 and a Moto G7 Power, by going into Developer Options and tapping on "Bluetooth Audio Codec". They both support aptX and aptX HD; but the Moto G7 Power also says it supports aptX Adaptive and aptX TWS+ too. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]moochs 18 points19 points20 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm guessing this doesn't include aptX adaptive? * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 14 points15 points16 points 3 days ago (0 children) No it does not. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]IohetV10 is the original notch 14 points15 points16 points 3 days ago (2 children) Since I know most of you have devices that support aptX and aptX HD already, you're wondering why you should care. Well, for most users, this doesn't matter. It's a change that affects OEMs for the most part. Surprisingly there are some devices that don't have either aptX or aptX HD, though. My NVIDIA SHIELD TV, for example, only supports aptX but not aptX HD. The Fold4 only supports aptX, not aptX HD for some reason, so this is welcome. Hopefully this means the next major OS update includes it. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]QwertyBuffaloS22U, S20+, Mate 10 Pro 8 points9 points10 points 2 days ago (1 child) This applies to all Samsung phones, even those with Qualcomm chipsets * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Nihilistic_Mystics 7 points8 points9 points 2 days ago (0 children) All modern ones, yes. Older Samsung phones (somewhere around the S7-S9) did support AptX HD. For a generation or two of phones, an Android version update actually removed the support. I remember some angry forum threads about it. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]James_Vowles 17 points18 points19 points 3 days ago (26 children) Does this mean that headphones will start getting aptX support? It's so far and few between. I remember Sony had aptX support but then removed it with later versions. Hope it comes back! * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 57 points58 points59 points 3 days ago (4 children) No, headphones/TWS earbuds/Bluetooth receivers need to include an aptX and aptX HD decoder, which still requires a license from Qualcomm (directly or indirectly). * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]James_Vowles 13 points14 points15 points 3 days ago (1 child) oh well that's annoying * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Incromulent 16 points17 points18 points 2 days ago (0 children) It's sneaky but clever business. They give away the locks for free to some companies to drive adoption, then sell the keys to other companies. Last time I checked, the margin on earbuds was better than on handsets, so buds makers are more likely to pay. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]satmandu 7 points8 points9 points 3 days ago (1 child) So one follow-up question becomes when do the patents necessary for the decoder expire? Otherwise, the entire codec is a sort-of poison pill for the open-source community, no? You need an encoder and decoder for this to be useful. Qualcomm is more than happy to throw in the encoder for free, knowing that the more encoders there are out there, the more likely there is likely to be decoder licensing profit... * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 8 points9 points10 points 3 days ago (0 children) I'm not sure, I actually couldn't find what (active) patents cover aptX during my research. The ones that the Wikipedia article link to are expired/revoked... * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]IohetV10 is the original notch 5 points6 points7 points 3 days ago (3 children) I haven't had trouble finding headphones that support aptX. There are many of varying pricepoints and quality out there * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]James_Vowles 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago (2 children) There's always some sort of compromise however. I want something I can use indoors and outside, so wireless, noise cancelling are a must, but sony are the best at noise cancelling these days (imo). I'm looking at the Sennheiser Momentum 4s if they release some solid updates. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]IohetV10 is the original notch 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago (0 children) I have PXC550s that I've been very happy with * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]FlaringAfroS22U 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) Does your phone support LDAC? I use that on my WH-1000XM4. Great headphones. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]HaMMeReD 10 points11 points12 points 3 days ago (0 children) Chicken and Egg. If the market share of encoding devices is low, then it's only a selling point to a small demographic, so headphone makers won't prioritize it, especially since it also costs them money. I.e. why pay $1/headphone for $0.01 cents profit from the extra users you get. The codec needs to be "worth it" as in the licensing should lead to a greater benefit. In the audiophile space, people will seek out devices/headphones that match their criteria. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]hullabaloo87 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago (5 children) What headphones do you mean? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]James_Vowles 5 points6 points7 points 3 days ago (4 children) Sony WH-1000XM3s * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 13 points14 points15 points 3 days ago (3 children) Hm? My Sony WH-1000XM3s support aptX and aptX HD. Sony's own support pages also still mention that they support it. edit: Oh wait, you meant that its successors don't support aptX or aptX HD. Wow, you're right. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]hullabaloo87 4 points5 points6 points 3 days ago (0 children) I did not know this, i have xm3 and was so confused. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]vocatus 4 points5 points6 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm literally listening to my WH-1000XM5's on a flight right now, and just checked on pixel 7, yep no aptX support * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]IohetV10 is the original notch 10 points11 points12 points 3 days ago (0 children) Sony wants people on LDAC, Samsung wants people on Scalable, Apple wants people on AAC, Bose only supports AAC, so the real high tier option is on the Sennheiser side, and there's nothing wrong with that as Sennheiser has great audio products * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago* (0 children) No, the codec will still cost us money as the decoder isn't open source. I would rather buy a adaptive codec. regular aptx can be free as the patent expired. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]trlef19LG V30 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago (6 children) I suppose it could mean that, yeah * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]James_Vowles 1 point2 points3 points 3 days ago (5 children) It's basically the only way to use wireless headphones on pc for gaming because the latency is acceptable. Look forward to it. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]trlef19LG V30 2 points3 points4 points 3 days ago (3 children) Yeah! It's true, I think they are the only low latency codecs !? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Natanael_LXperia 1 III (main), Samsung S9, TabPro 8.4 4 points5 points6 points 3 days ago (2 children) Opus also has a low latency mode but is not yet part of the Bluetooth standard (don't know if it ever will be, but at least Google has been testing it) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Andraltoid 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago (0 children) Anyone can add codecs to Bluetooth without the Bluetooth sig's approval. Bluetooth sig only mandates that, if you support bluetooth audio, you must support sbc. Mp3 over Bluetooth has always been possible, for example. Also, google has officially added opus as a supported codec over Bluetooth to android. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]QuackdocTech 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago (0 children) Linux via pipewire also support its, and it's really good. quality beats everything in the bluetooth market while only marginally looses to LC3plus in latency in my testing, I dont have hardware to test battery longevity. looking at trying to get one of those new pine riscv devices for potentially testing. (BTW in terms of latency, I was playing competitve shooters on both, I measured about 80ms of audio delay which is less then using headphones via ps4 controller when wired. mind you this is one two really good bluetooth chipsets. actual latency of headphones will be on the headphone side. but for protocols itself opus and LC3P win) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]QuackdocTech 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) I personally use SBC-XQ since it is also quite low latency. lower then aptx adaptive on my testing on android and linux. (not that I think adaptive actually works on linux) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]StarkillerX42 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (1 child) It should. I have yet to see an AptX device, and it's been available for years. It's harder to justify premium codecs when you can just use mp3 and call it a day without any customers complaining. I guess Qualcomm did this because they were worried the codec would die otherwise. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]gaviddinola -1 points0 points1 point 1 day ago (0 children) You must be blind * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]trlef19LG V30 6 points7 points8 points 3 days ago (3 children) Did Qualcomm released a statement or sth somewhere about that? * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 15 points16 points17 points 3 days ago (2 children) No, I reached out to a Qualcomm spokesperson directly after I spotted the AOSP patches. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]trlef19LG V30 0 points1 point2 points 3 days ago (1 child) But I suppose they are going to? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 10 points11 points12 points 3 days ago (0 children) I don't know. I hope they do, because I know it's better to hear directly from them about something that involves patents/licensing instead of from a third-party like me. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Aevum1 17 points18 points19 points 3 days ago (5 children) i guess sony LDAC gaining ground with many brands did have a positive result Its currently used by (apart from sony) Panasonic, Huawei, Fiio, Edifier, soundcore (anker's audio brand), Audio Technica, Shure... meaning that if Qualcomm dosnt open up the codec, sony will be the future of high res wireless audio. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]Andraltoid 3 points4 points5 points 2 days ago (0 children) Aptx hd (now a part of aptx adaptive) and Aptx lossless already exist and the latter is actually lossless as opposed to ldac which mixes lossless and lossy audio. Ldac is clunky and unless it receives an update to allow it to be more adaptive (instead of only having 3 bitrate steps), it will likely be phased out as more competitors arrive like samsung scalable codec, aptx lossless and LHDC. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]nukem996 -1 points0 points1 point 3 days ago (3 children) It already is. LDAC gives you higher quality than any other Bluetooth codec. Sony wireless headsets dominate the audiophile community as the best wireless headsets you can get. The LDAC encoder being FOSS has allowed it to be incorporated into every Android phone and works out of the box on Linux. The only place it's currently lacking is on Apple devices for obvious reasons. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Andraltoid 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (1 child) Ldac also sucks and mixes lossless and lossy audio for no good reason. Most phones simply won't transmit the highest possible bitrate and will settle for "best-effort" which basically means the lowest of the lowest which, despite having comparable bitrate to aptx, somehow sounds worse (subjectively, obviously). https://www.soundguys.com/ldac-ultimate-bluetooth-guide-20026/ * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]nukem996 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (0 children) All Bluetooth codecs are at least partially lossy. Android and Pipewire on Linux allow you to set a minimum bitrate for LDAC. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]QwertyBuffaloS22U, S20+, Mate 10 Pro 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (0 children) Sony wireless headsets dominate the audiophile community This is so false lol * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]comfyraingalaxy s9, LG G6, Axon 7 for music 13 points14 points15 points 2 days ago (3 children) Bluetooth audio is still ass. There is no one decent codec that works between my Android phone, windows desktop, and MacBook. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]DanorexicMoto X Pure 2015 7 points8 points9 points 2 days ago (1 child) Reading through op's post and this thread only highlights how shit Bluetooth is. Can I expect to have lower latency Bluetooth in the future??? "An interesting question - AOSP now has the encoder built in... But you'll only get top tier audio only if the headphone manufacturer licenses the decoder!!"AND if your phone even supports that AOSP build in a reasonable time frame(lol). It shouldn't be so damn hard to get good quality, low latency, bi-directional audio at this point. And not have to explicitly look for it in products. Does this automobile have anti lock brakes, a roof, and windows??? Of course it does because that's what you would expect out of a modern product!!! I'm at a loss for better examples at the moment. And no offense to op, because their work is appreciated. But this is such a ridiculously stupid example of a discussion that shouldn't even be a thing. How can I spend upwards of $200-$300 on headphones and still have to look into whether or not the codec quality is trash. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]comfyraingalaxy s9, LG G6, Axon 7 for music -1 points0 points1 point 2 days ago* (0 children) It's crazy that my sony xm4 sound terrible when used on anything other than an Android phone. Even with LDAC they sound mediocre. They are my first and last pair of Bluetooth headphones until lossless wireless becomes a thing. Wired headphones, on the other hand, work consistently across all my devices. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) Best option is to remove license fee, decrease battery usage and use open source codecs. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Lincolns_Revenge 3 points4 points5 points 2 days ago (2 children) What is the technical limitation at this point to transmitting blocks of file types like MP3 and OGG for playback in audio devices without re-encoding? That would seemingly solve both the issue of latency and degradation of audio quality. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]Andraltoid 5 points6 points7 points 2 days ago (0 children) What is the technical limitation All audio routed through Bluetooth needs to be reencoded because the system has to combine any another audio (from the system or another app) that plays at the same time as your music. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Natanael_LXperia 1 III (main), Samsung S9, TabPro 8.4 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) Not all file formats are suitable for streaming since the smallest data blocks needed for parsing audio are a bit too large. MP3 is basically on the edge of passable (and just bad for games and anything else interactive), the references I see say over 100 ms. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]foremi 3 points4 points5 points 3 days ago* (4 children) This is great news. My Lenovo p11 pro gen 2 doesn't support aptx and I was not surprised but also kinda disappointed because my surface headphones 2 have that or sbc, no ldac or even aac for some mind boggling reason. It'd be nice, though I doubt it will happen, to see devices like that gain support. I'm also guessing this is related to Qualcomm basically replacing aptx, aptx hd and aptx ll with aptx adaptive that does all of that in one and afaik is a whole new standard. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 4 points5 points6 points 3 days ago (2 children) Yeah, aptX Adaptive, aptX LL, and aptX Adaptive over BLE Audio (QLEA) is the new hot thing compared to regular aptX and aptX HD. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Andraltoid 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) Aptx ll has been discontinued (unless you mean lossless and not low latency). Aptx adaptive superceded classic aptx and aptx hd. All versions are backwards compatible but both devices will default to classic if they don't match (from what I remember reading). * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) Im gonna say that AptX patent ended. I dont care, I would rather use OPUS as a codec. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago* (0 children) Well I use a custom rom and Adaptive isnt present anymore. It was pretty much broken and Adaptive has several versions. Its still snake oil as Aptx Adaptive isnt persistent. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Drwankingstein 3 points4 points5 points 2 days ago (0 children) Neither aptxHD or aptxLL are better then SBC-xq which custom roms and linux are shipping. it will usually be better to just use then when applicable depending on the headphones themsleves since some BT headphones intentonally make SBC sound worse then it should * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]SoNic67 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (8 children) This is awesome! First LDAC, now AptX HD... Android audio quality over BT is truly superior to Apple's AAC. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]fenrir245 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (7 children) AptX is quite a bit worse than LDAC though. Apple's AAC encoder is quite a bit better than what is available of Android phones. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]SoNic67 -3 points-2 points-1 points 2 days ago (6 children) AptX it is an option for some cheaper headphones that don't support LDAC. AptX HD is different animal. AAC encoder is lower quality, no matter what. it su*ks when compared even with normal AptX. Android AAC in those tests was... years ago, Samsung Note 8? And SBC was better than AAC!!! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]fenrir245 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (5 children) AptX it is an option for some cheaper headphones that don't support LDAC. AptX HD is different animal. About 10db different. AAC encoder is lower quality, no matter what. it su*ks when compared even with normal AptX. Doesn't really bear out with tests, other than pure treble extension in places where there isn't even any content. Android AAC in those tests was... years ago, Samsung Note 8? Don't see how Android AAC has improved in any way since then, everyone put their money in aptX and LDAC instead. And SBC was better than AAC!!! Again, purely in treble extension. Worse in all other regards. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 1 point2 points3 points 1 day ago* (4 children) Again, purely in treble extension. Worse in all other regards. Not if you add SBC-XQ support. AOSP still refuses to add the mod to the stack. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]fenrir245 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (3 children) Not if you add SBC-XQ support. What devices even support that format? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (2 children) It's been tried to add it to AOSP but lobbys don't allow it. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]fenrir245 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (1 child) I'm not talking about AOSP. Which bluetooth audio devices support that format? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (0 children) ALL * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ashyjayiPhone 14 Pro, Xperia 1 6 points7 points8 points 3 days ago (4 children) Apple, get on this. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]MishaalRahmanASUS Zenfone 9[S] 9 points10 points11 points 3 days ago (2 children) This is only for AOSP, so it doesn't affect iOS. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Natanael_LXperia 1 III (main), Samsung S9, TabPro 8.4 10 points11 points12 points 3 days ago (1 child) Apache license is mostly permissive, Apple could technically include it, same as how they (IIRC) used the BSD network stack. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]no_u__20 9 points10 points11 points 2 days ago (0 children) Apple actively removed all AptX support from the macOS Ventura. Doubt they will bring it back now that they completely killed it. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]fenrir245 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (1 child) The technology is known the world over as THE superior audio codec for wireless BT audio Press X to Doubt. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) SBC-HD and OPUS is the way. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]utack 6 points7 points8 points 3 days ago (0 children) FFMpeg supported both codecs already They are not sophisticated, their only noticeable feature is being proprietary. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]dbneoA52s 5G, OneUI 5.0 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (1 child) I rather have SBC XQ for Android. Just because of the fact that many devices uses SBC instead of APTX.. it can achieve same quality as APTXHD. But it never got merged into aosp... https://lineageos.org/ engineering/Bluetooth-SBC-XQ/ * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/144517406 Oh man the Qualcomm Sony lobby really did stop the adoption of SBC XQ. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Nemo64Google Nexus 4 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (1 child) The bluetooth world would be slightly better if we would throw all propriatary codes out and just increased the bitpool value of the default SBC from 53 (328 kb/s) to 64 (452 kb/s). This wouldn't even require a new specification. But it would mean qualcomm and apple would earn less so thats probably why we artifically limit the default codec. Although i'd accept that aac might save battery by only needing 256 kbit/s to sound decent. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) OPUS is perfect for this. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago* (0 children) For anyone interest, watch Google, Qualcomm, Sony, Fraunhofer not allowing SBC HD. https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/136342164 https://android-review.googlesource.com/c/platform/packages/apps/ Bluetooth/+/759258 * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]BlueSwordMStupid smooth Lenovo Z6 90Hz Overclocked Screen + Axon 7 3350mAh 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago (0 children) This is not really all that useful TBH. A decoder would be wayyy more useful. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]babaroga73 2 points3 points4 points 2 days ago (1 child) I don't want to brag but I had Xiaomi Mi9T Pro and now Poco F3, they both support aptX and I got indicatior when connecting bluetooth earbuds Anker Sounbuds Slim+ to it. Since 2019. https://www.aptx.com/products/mi-9t-pro-redmi-k20-pro My question is ..... do I hear the difference? * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]soberPoly 4 points5 points6 points 2 days ago (0 children) No, this good news is for non-Qualcomm devices. Non-qualcomm devices required license before. (see Exynos Samsung phones) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Jank9525Device, Software !! 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) Gpu driver when * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]skylinestar1986 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (1 child) Praying for a good low latency system so I can buy an adaptor to convert my surround speakers to wireless and have them properly placed. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]Natanael_LXperia 1 III (main), Samsung S9, TabPro 8.4 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) Currently you're better off streaming over WiFi with a single board computer * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]dashmesh 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (1 child) What's this mean for regular user? Seems like not much * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]CammKelly 1 point2 points3 points 2 days ago (0 children) Samsung users will benefit from Aptx HD (I'm a few years off using Samsung but my last note didn't support HD). * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Pro4TLZZ 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) I just wish my pixel phone could support more audio formats so I didn't have to transcode tv shows in Plex * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]vhanda 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago (0 children) You've highlighted how they can be used as an encoder in your Android product. However, given that this encoder code is licensed under Apache, doesn't it mean anyone could modify the code and use it in any product? Or are there special patents which Qualcomm has granted to Android but not other projects? (Is that even acceptable in an Apache license?) * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago* (0 children) This is where I fell down a rabbit hole of licensing and patents. AAC isn't free? LDAC needs certification? Etc. I'm done with that rabbit hole. I even briefly tried using ChatGPT to help me draft some of this article, but the tone/voice just didn't feel right to me, lol. Tell me about it, AAC older versions are free as that patent is old but not open source. LDAC is already bundled in AOSP after Sony failed to make a format codec again. So there you go, you no longer need to go through Qualcomm if you want to include an aptX and/or aptX HD encoder in your ANDROID product, so long as you utilize the code in AOSP licensed under Apache v2.0. This is great news for hobbyist custom ROM developers as well, as previously they'd have to just rip the shared libraries from a precompiled build (with questionable legality). Now you can just compile them from AOSP sources. Here's the source code in AOSP if you're interested: Encoder for aptX | Encoder for aptX High Definition Since I know most of you have devices that support aptX and aptX HD already, you're wondering why you should care. Well, for most users, this doesn't matter. It's a change that affects OEMs for the most part. Surprisingly there are some devices that don't have either aptX or aptX HD, though. My NVIDIA SHIELD TV, for example, only supports aptX but not aptX HD. XDA hs ported APtX bazillion version of that codec. Well the reason Qualcomm did this is because of BLE being the new cash grab and that OPUS was added to classic making all other codec redundant. But in other news, finally the SOny/Qualcomm lobby will not veto the SBC XQ patch and Samsung phones will get AptX. Other news could be the 28 year long patent ending for regular AptX. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]DioEgizio 0 points1 point2 points 2 days ago* (1 child) Does this mean libfreeaptx is dead? Anyways good that Qualcomm is opensourcing things also Qualcomm granting parents (by using apache2) is probably the first time in history lol * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]5tormwolf92 0 points1 point2 points 1 day ago (0 children) I think regular aptx patent expired after 28 years. Phones with no support still needs to port it but it's not illegal now. But I would avoid any Qualcomm codec after the adaptive codex inconsistent performance. So Qualcomm codec is just snake oil compared to Scalable, LDAC, LHDC, OPUS, AAC, LC3. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply * about * blog * about * advertising * careers * help * site rules * Reddit help center * reddiquette * mod guidelines * contact us * apps & tools * Reddit for iPhone * Reddit for Android * mobile website * <3 * reddit premium * reddit coins Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. (c) 2023 reddit inc. All rights reserved. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. Advertise - technology [pixel] p Rendered by PID 32 on reddit-service-r2-loggedout-5d6dc6c9b5-9rghx at 2023-03-19 23:00:57.001838+00:00 running b2f2428 country code: US.