https://hackaday.com/2021/01/17/leds-from-dubai-the-royal-lights-you-cant-buy/ Skip to content Logo Hackaday Primary Menu * Home * Blog * Hackaday.io * Tindie * Hackaday Prize * Submit * About * Search for: [ ] [Search] March 3, 2023 LEDs From Dubai: The Royal Lights You Can't Buy 98 Comments * by: Al Williams January 17, 2021 * * * * * Title: [LEDs From Dubai: The] Copy Short Link: [https://hackaday.com] Copy [led] [Clive] had an interesting video about LED lights from Philips. You can't buy them unless you live in Dubai. Apparently inspired by the ruler of Dubai, Sheikh Mohammad Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, who wanted more efficient and longer-lasting bulbs. The secret? A normal LED bulb uses an LED "filament" at 1 watt each. The Dubai bulbs run at about a fourth of that which means they need more LEDs to get the same amount of light, but they should last longer and operate more efficiently. After exploring the brightness and color of different lamps, [Clive] tears one up and finds some surprises inside. The LEDs get over 200V each and the driver circuit has a lot of pairs of components, possibly to keep the size small for the high voltages involved, although it could be to improve reliability, [Clive] wasn't sure. By reducing the power, [Clive] was able to count that each LED strip contains 21 LEDs. He also notes some of the oddities in construction that appear to be for reliability and ease of manufacturing. We aren't sure how that compares to the construction of conventional bulbs. The circuit includes a bridge rectifier and a linear current regulator using a MOSFET. The bulbs cost a bit more, but if you factor in the probable long life, their total cost over time should be reasonable. Overall, it is interesting that a nice design came from what amounts to government regulation. Of course, there is a price: in exchange for the development of the bulbs, Philips has the exclusive right to make and sell the bulbs for the next several years. They expect to sell 10 million lamps by the end of 2021, although they are only available, currently, in Dubai. The last time we looked in on Dubai, their police were flying quadcopters. If you want a teardown of a more conventional bulb, we've looked at that before, too. * [share_face] * [share_twit] * [share_in] * [share_mail] Posted in LED Hacks, TeardownTagged bulb, dubai, lamp, led, philips Post navigation - AT Keyboard Becomes Child's Speaking Toy On-Air Sign Helps Keep Your Broadcasts G-Rated - 98 thoughts on "LEDs From Dubai: The Royal Lights You Can't Buy" 1. WereCatf says: January 17, 2021 at 10:14 pm Clive is a treasure. He has a very smooth, soothing voice and an unhurried, leisurely way of speaking, making it very pleasant to listen to. Report comment Reply 1. solipso says: January 18, 2021 at 4:54 am +1 In fact I do listen to his older videos during my sleep. It helps me to sleep a lot better, considering my tinitus. My wife got used to it too; although she does not understand English, but she likes his voice timbre too. So every night, we are at least three in our bedroom. Report comment Reply 1. Ostracus says: January 18, 2021 at 7:29 am If Youtube doesn't work out, he could sell himself as a sleep aid for insomniacs. Report comment Reply 1. lkjsdflk lkjsdf says: January 18, 2021 at 9:24 am Look up Mr Carlson's Lab if you like someone that will put you to sleep. In a good way though. His videos are very interesting, but something about his voice, if you are on the edge of being sleepy will knock you right out. Report comment Reply 1. a Jaded Hobo says: January 18, 2021 at 9:58 am I have to listen to his channel at 1.25x speed or my mind has wondered off to other pastures before he has finished his sentence. Report comment 2. mythoughts62 says: January 18, 2021 at 1:04 pm Lock Picking Lawyer also has a very soothing voice as he does his videos. He will also make you think twice before trusting any lock... Report comment 3. Mike H. says: January 18, 2021 at 1:15 pm I watch Big Clive and Mr Carlson both to learn and while I sleep. Both are super mellow very smart dudes. Report comment 4. Dude says: January 18, 2021 at 11:38 pm Paul Sellers as well, if you're into woodworking. Report comment 2. Hirudinea says: January 18, 2021 at 12:58 pm He's like Shrek with a multimeter! Report comment Reply 3. sqelch says: January 22, 2021 at 7:06 pm True plus he is extremely knowledgeable and is willing to share his knowledge. Learned a lot from Clive. Report comment Reply 2. Drone says: January 17, 2021 at 11:05 pm @ Al Williams said: "LEDs From Dubai: The Royal Lights You Can't Buy" Sure, you can buy all you want - if you are in Dubai. I think it's prolly only a question of time before the Chinese copy them, then anyone can buy them as "Dubai Lights" on the likes of Ebay or Aliexpress. Report comment Reply 1. Dude says: January 17, 2021 at 11:07 pm They could already, but they won't. There's no secret sauce here, just use the proper de-rating curve given by the diode manufacturer and don't push it to the limit. Report comment Reply 1. Dude says: January 17, 2021 at 11:25 pm See: https://www.mouser.com/applications/lighting-derating/ Note that commercial LED bulbs typically don't use automatic temperature compensation. They use a fixed current regardless of temperature so the bulb would stay the same brightness, which in practice means it starts really bright and then instantly dims down over 2-3 seconds because the efficiency drops with the rising temperature. After reaching thermal equilibrium, the light output is reduced somewhat from what it says on the package, because the standard test doesn't run the light for very long. Since the LEDs are very difficult to heatsink properly, and many aren't even trying, they're always running up against the de-rating curve. Every LED bulb is optimized to give you the nominal rated operating hours and brightness under nominal test conditions, which means they can claim so many lumens without spending more on a bigger diode. In a country where the "normal" temperature can reach 50 degrees, regular LED bulbs simply wouldn't last. A few hours under those conditions is enough to permanently damage the diode. Report comment Reply 1. Phil D says: January 18, 2021 at 7:35 pm 50 degrees is not normal in Dubai. The temperature can reach that figure on a very hot day in the middle of summer. Even so these bulbs are designed to work indoors and as everyone has air conditioning they will be operating in a much cooler environment. Report comment Reply 1. Dude says: January 18, 2021 at 11:40 pm Hence why the double quotes, and I'm sure they have outdoor lighting as well, and for people and places that don't necessarily have air conditioning, like your garage. Report comment 2. andrewlbc says: January 24, 2021 at 7:07 am It can get hotter than that there. A friend of mine lived in Dubai for two years and he saw temps reach nearly 130'f (54c). Report comment 2. Jonathan Wilson says: January 17, 2021 at 11:25 pm No-one (not even the Chinese) is going to voluntarily make a product that doesn't need to be replaced as often because that would hurt their business. Report comment Reply 1. Dude says: January 18, 2021 at 12:16 am I don't understand the fetish about not replacing bulbs. If you've got a 25 year bulb, that just means for the final 10 years you're going to be looking at a dimmed, color-shifted, reduced CRI piece of junk. You're compromising everything just to say you don't need to replace a dollar's worth of electronics and plastic. It's better if the bulb goes out at once after a couple years, than becoming gradually worse over couple decades. Report comment Reply 1. Artenz says: January 18, 2021 at 12:24 am So you're saying that such a bulb would last 15 years while emitting good light ? Sign me up. I'm getting tired of replacing my LED bulbs every 2 years. Report comment 2. tilk says: January 18, 2021 at 12:25 am Actually, in most LED bulbs I had, it's the driver circuit that failed first, not the diodes. Repairing the driver often gave me additional years from the bulb without compromising light quality. Report comment 3. pelrun says: January 18, 2021 at 1:16 am Lightbulb manufacturers formed a cartel in the early part of the 20th century to fix prices and required that members engineered their bulbs to only last 1000 hours, fining those who produced longer life bulbs. Don't be fooled into believing that such shenanigans are in the past, or that physical limitations are the primary reason why LED lamps degrade as fast as they do - modern bulbs are *designed* to overdrive their components unless forced not to by law (as happened with the Dubai bulbs.) Report comment 4. Dude says: January 18, 2021 at 1:42 am >such a bulb would last 15 years while emitting good light ? Relatively speaking. It's also not often stated which standard is being used, so the reduction in lumen output may be to 50% or 70% or just about anything, and the color output variation may not be to any standard at all. Report comment 5. Pio says: January 18, 2021 at 2:44 am If you watched Clive's video, you'd learn that driving the LEDs less hard also leads to less degradation of them over time and they stay their intended color for longer. (He cites the example of his porch light) And yes I am aware that the plural of anecdote is not data but Arrhenius does tell us that aging (or the speed of (chemical) processes) slows by about half per 10 degC less. Report comment 6. jimmy dubs says: January 19, 2021 at 7:37 am >It's better if the bulb goes out at once after a couple years, 18 months into living in a new-built home, I wholeheartedly disagree. The builder used the cheapest LED bulbs imaginable (to meet city energy-saver regs) and they began failing after about 11 months. One at a time, all over the house. I'm replacing them as they fail with ones that should last 5-ish years before they start to degrade. Give me bulbs at a fair price that I don't have to think about for 10 years, please. Report comment 7. dingodreams says: January 19, 2021 at 9:01 pm It's just this sort of thinking x ~8 billion people that has trashed this planet and should be shunned if not outlawed imho. I'm totally into boycotting manufacturers and brands with products designed to fail early aka make maximum profits aka make maximum trash of finite resources. Report comment 8. peter says: March 8, 2021 at 6:25 am Architect Rau found a brilliant and simple solution to this... But light from the manufacturer instead of lamps, that way its in their interest to built a long lasting lamp. https://www.ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/ case-studies/selling-light-as-a-service Report comment 9. Michael Goldberg says: April 2, 2022 at 11:19 am In some conditions the cost of the bulb is dwarfed by the replacement cost or effort. My entrance way is very high and I am getting up in years. Little light is needed, but the problem of changing the bulb dominates the total equation! I am far more interested in very long life than light output/watt. Report comment 2. Ostracus says: January 18, 2021 at 7:31 am Long lasting TP. :-D Report comment Reply 3. Lingerie De Paris says: January 24, 2021 at 9:15 am Idiotic, cars have been getting better and more reliable for the last several decades, has have tvs, and most electronics like hard drives and computers Report comment Reply 1. lampuiho says: April 16, 2021 at 10:38 pm I have no idea what you are talking about. Warranty period was shortening and reparability started to become impossible. That in fact led to the establishment of law of warranty period of 2 years requirement by the EU. Then there is also a call for rights to repair mainly aimed at Apple. (Microsoft, you too) And SSDs? Ha Report comment 4. tlhonmey says: January 20, 2022 at 5:40 pm That's a common argument, but really? Of course they will, just as soon as the customer starts picking which product they buy based on longevity rather than sticker price. Failure to offer the customers what they want will hurt your business. Right now, the majority of customers just buy the cheapest thing on the shelf. So that's what you get more of. Report comment Reply 1. fuglipepi says: January 28, 2023 at 4:39 am often tried buying better quality by looking at the higher price. Many times i bought expensive trash Report comment 2. ncrmnt says: January 18, 2021 at 4:36 am We have something similar for sale in Russia. Basically they used good old 'Ilyich's bulb" glass casing (if any Russians readling this, they'll understand), just replaced the nichrome wire with filament and added the driver circuit at the bottom. Not sure what's so 'dubai-unique' in those bulbs. Report comment Reply 1. RichC says: January 18, 2021 at 5:16 am The Dubai-unique part is that they use double the number of filaments driven at half the power. This is for the longer bulb life and increased efficiency required by local regulations. Report comment Reply 2. Mr x says: January 18, 2021 at 6:43 am In Russia bulb you Report comment Reply 1. Dude says: January 18, 2021 at 11:45 pm No no... In Soviet Russia, very advanced nuclear power: bulb dark, you glow. Report comment Reply 3. R. Mark Clayton says: January 19, 2021 at 7:43 am They might pretend they are the same, but they won't have the multiple filaments, duplicated components nor efficiency of the Dubai lights. The Sheik got what he wanted, pity for us. Report comment Reply 4. dingodreams says: January 21, 2021 at 11:47 pm yep sure, with junk leds that are over driven, undersized fets and caps.... good luck with those. Report comment Reply 3. Dude says: January 17, 2021 at 11:07 pm Almost all LED products don't properly de-rate the diode, which results in the lamp dimming a bit after a few seconds of operation because it gets warm. You can understand how in Dubai this would lead to a severely reduced lifespan for the product. Report comment Reply 4. macsimski says: January 17, 2021 at 11:44 pm Oops! "The LEDs get over 200V each" should be "The COB LEDs get over 200V in total and are compensated for mains fluctuation" Report comment Reply 5. Gregg Eshelman says: January 18, 2021 at 12:16 am Wouldn't do people in North America much good if they could buy them, unless there are 110 volt versions. Report comment Reply 1. 8bitwiz says: January 18, 2021 at 4:46 am I use a dimmer with "filament" lights anyhow. (Also note that this design is not dimmable, I'd rather just install dimmer switches.) Report comment Reply 2. R. Mark Clayton says: January 19, 2021 at 7:44 am Two in series then... Report comment Reply 6. dudefromthenorth says: January 18, 2021 at 12:48 am You mean these ? (via bezosworld dot ae) https://www.amazon.ae/ Dubai-Lamp-Warm-White-3W/dp/B07N7125GV Report comment Reply 1. Drone says: January 18, 2021 at 3:46 pm That Amazon page is for the United Arab Emirates, where the Metropolis of Dubai is. The product (ASIN B07N7125GV) doesn't show up on other Amazon sites, so you cannot buy it directly through a normal connection. One could try a VPN connection of course, but in the end I would be surprised if you could actually buy the bulb, pay for it, then send it to another country. There is a link on that page to the seller's page, Gulf Electronics, with a phone number. Gulf Electronics is an authorized Philips distributor in the region. Maybe if you contact Gulf Electronics directly, they may sell you one of these Dubai Lamps and ship it to you. Also, these lamps work on 220VAC, and will not work on 110VAC. The price for one 3W bulb without the 10 AED (Arab Emirati Dirham) shipping is 35 AED or approximately USD $12.87 with 5% VAT, USD $12.25 USD without the 5% VAT. Report comment Reply 1. Chris T says: April 3, 2021 at 8:54 am There is also an email address on their site http:// www.gulfelectronics.ae/ - info@gulfelectronics.ae Report comment Reply 2. Jason Pyeron says: January 19, 2021 at 1:32 pm When checking out with a US based address... Important Message Some items in your order are not deliverable to the selected address. Please change address or delete items that don't ship to proceed. Dubai Lamp Warm White 3W - LED Filament Lamp - Philips Report comment Reply 3. ChuckD6421 says: January 27, 2021 at 11:47 pm If you have an American Amazon account you can log in and buy things. But for me, it detected where my shipping address was (NY) and I was denied the light bulb. Report comment Reply 7. rewolff says: January 18, 2021 at 1:37 am I've said it on an other forum: Sometimes Clive is too quick with judgement of things he knows too little about. And the beginners mistakes are irritating. Is it this video where he calculates two 31 ohm resistor in parallel to be 62 Ohms? Guys like Mark Rober and Destin always "proof-read" their videos and catch the stupid little mistakes.... But someone not as fluent in electronics as most of us here will have a hard time figuring out why in some cases, you divide by two for parallel resistors but here you need to add them together.... Report comment Reply 1. Ian H says: January 18, 2021 at 3:02 am If you listen again at 19:55, Clive states that it is "31 Ohms total, two 62 Ohm resistors in parallel". Report comment Reply 1. M1DLG says: January 18, 2021 at 5:33 am Glad someone proof read their post Report comment Reply 2. Matlock Seastrom says: November 25, 2022 at 2:38 pm He does make the occasional mistake, but it seems pretty rare and he is super active with viewers and commenters so he is quick to put out corrections. His videos are mostly reverse engineering consumer stuff(a.k.a. "Taking things to bits") Seriously this guy is dedicated. Right now, go post a good question or comment on any of his videos, even really old ones, and odds are you will get like or reply from him. Pretty unbelievable with the number of fans. He also films his stuff unscripted and largely unedited without any real prep. I have no idea how his videos turn out as well as they do. Even after a decade of working with electronics daily, it takes me an hour to do what Clive does in a few minutes, and he's doing it while keeping everyhing in shot and in focus (Well, mostly), He is definitely my favorite Youtuber, guy is a legend. Report comment Reply 8. salec says: January 18, 2021 at 1:46 am Are LED panels more endurable then bulbs? I'd hate to replace them as often, because when that happens, more good material (enclosure) is wasted then just the light source. Report comment Reply 1. Dude says: January 18, 2021 at 2:17 am At least they tend to have some thermal management instead of none. Report comment Reply 2. Ostracus says: January 18, 2021 at 7:40 am Maybe QDs will make everything better? https://www.soundandvision.com/content/ quantum-dots-and-micro-leds Report comment Reply 9. ONV says: January 18, 2021 at 2:20 am What about the "environmental credentials" of companies like "philips" who are able to engineer a better product but chose to market something which is deliberately "flawed"? Where is Extinction Rebellion when you need them to highlight true hypocrisy as opposed to meaningless rhetoric? Excuse me whilst I step down from my V8 hydrogen powered high horse :-) Report comment Reply 1. Artenz says: January 18, 2021 at 2:37 am Problem is that the consumer can't tell how long the light bulbs before they purchase them, so they will get the cheaper one. This is not something that companies can fix. It would require government regulation just like Dubai has done. Report comment Reply 1. Dude says: January 18, 2021 at 3:33 am The light bulb cartel back in the day punished its members not only for exceeding the lifespan of 1,000 hours, but for not meeting it as well. There were two ways to make bad bulbs: making them overly bright (thus "efficient") or making them dim (thus long-lasting), and both were undesirable features for the consumers, and both were factors they could not discover before the purchase. The manufacturers used to have no quality controls, they just filled the box with whatever happened to come out of the production line that day. If there was a bad batch, they'd stuff it in with some good bulbs to get rid of it. The same thing is true now for LED bulbs, only the consumers have to juggle four variables: efficiency, color rendering index, lumen output, and lifespan - none of which can be measured or known by the consumer in advance, and none of which are well controlled by any standard. Report comment Reply 1. quarterturn says: January 18, 2021 at 5:22 am You can (or at least could) purchase incandescent bulbs which legitimately lasted 20,000 hours. The catch is they are much more expensive and also put out way less light - like 75w shines as if it is only 25w. They were commonly used for things like traffic lights, where the cost to change bulbs was much more than the cost to run them. AeroTech was one of these brands. 1000 - 2000 hours from an incandescent lamp is a pretty good compromise on efficiency, lifetime, and color. Report comment Reply 1. Dude says: January 18, 2021 at 7:32 am In ordinary use as well, you had vibration resistant bulbs which you could recognize from a little hammer logo on the glass, which were designed with a thicker filament with more supports, for instance for a ceiling fan. They would last at least twice as long, but you got about 60 Watt worth out of a 75 Watt bulb. They could make a 99 CRI LED, but you don't want to pay the $50 they'll ask for it, and they don't want to sell it to you anyways, so all the bulbs you can find in the regular outlets are just as bad as the compact fluorescent tubes. Now if you want to have a good lamp for appreciating photos and paintings and just seeing things in the color they're supposed to be, you have to buy oven or stove hood bulbs and string them up like a clown's mirror to have yourself a lamp with a 100 CRI. Report comment 2. lksdjf lkjsdf says: January 18, 2021 at 9:36 am I think the ones with the hammer on them were shatter proof bulbs. Might have potentially had some additional vibration resistance as well due to their intended use. These bulbs would be covered in some kind of coating so that if they were dropped and shattered all or most of the glass would not go flying across your shop. These would be useful in the old incandescent hanging lights like you might use while working on a car. something hand held like this which was much more likely to be dropped. Report comment 3. Dude says: January 18, 2021 at 1:32 pm Yeah, they were meant for working lights, like the traditional pickle jar lamp with a hook you can hang down from stuff, but they were useful anywhere you needed a robust lamp. They also had the property that when you finally managed to burn one out, you would leave the power on and swivel it around carefully until the broken piece of filament touches one of the support posts, and it would arc-weld itself there. The lamp would re-ignite and burn a little brighter, sometimes for weeks longer. Because they were made with a thicker filament, they would also take the thermal stresses better and survive being flicked on and off repeatedly, so for things like bathroom and pantry lamps. Report comment 10. tomas zerolo says: January 18, 2021 at 2:34 am Brave New World [1] was supposed to be a dystopia, not an instruction sheet. "Ending is better than mending" [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World Report comment Reply 11. BT says: January 18, 2021 at 5:18 am Like ships in bottles...how to they get all those filaments inside the bulb? Report comment Reply 1. John says: January 18, 2021 at 6:25 am They don't the filament came first. Report comment Reply 2. Thomas says: January 18, 2021 at 7:02 am If the insides dont fit in thru the small diameter at the bottom, they are wider at insertion and made smaller afterwards. See https://youtu.be/RVeXjwW0JJk?t=97 as an example of wide necks which can be made smaller later on when the filaments are inside... Report comment Reply 12. rasz_pl says: January 18, 2021 at 6:25 am wait, wrong Sheikh :| I confused MBR for MBS. They only hang out together and marry each other 12 year old daughters (Jalila). Report comment Reply 13. Christopher Hancock says: January 18, 2021 at 7:39 am All we need is a second-market for refurb bulbs. Report comment Reply 1. Ostracus says: January 18, 2021 at 8:17 am First there was "copper theft", now there will be "bulb theft". Report comment Reply 1. RW ver 0.0.1 says: January 18, 2021 at 4:03 pm Back when LED bulbs were $50 a pop there was a "Energy Efficient Home of Tomorrowwwww" Show house that got all it's bulbs stolen :-D Report comment Reply 1. Dude says: January 19, 2021 at 12:12 am You still have to pay about $29 for a 95 CRI 10 Watt bulb though, unless you find them on special offer because nobody is buying and the seller wants to get rid of the stock. I found a website that sells some, where I also discovered a curious fact: "(redacted) 10 watt A19 lamps were designed with flicker-free light output as the first and foremost concern, and unfortunately we were only able to achieve a power factor rating of 0.6. Consequently, these lamps are currently banned for sale in California and we are unable to ship them to our California customers." It appears that Title 20 prevents the sale of flicker-free high CRI lamps because most won't pass the 80 lm/W or the 0.7 power factor rules. Report comment Reply 14. Truth says: January 18, 2021 at 8:51 am I would bet money that most bulbs fail in Dubai during August (average temperature high: 41degC, 106degF ; low: 30degC, 86degF). As everybody should knows, if you apply "The Arrhenius Equation" to electronics, a "10degC increase in temperature reduces the life of electronics by half". This is used commercially by the IC industry to remove the "early infant mortality failures" from the standard "Bathtub curve" (You stick the silicon in a special oven, power them up and leave them there for a fixed duration, to cause the chips that would fail in the first several years of operation to typically fault in 24 or 48 hours). Then you test again to see which wafer dies passed. My understanding is that the people of Dubai were unhappy having to replace LED bulbs often, because of the natural higher average ambient temperature and complex circuits, especially when compared to a tungsten filament bulbs, they were failing at an unacceptable rate. Call me crazy, but if you put two times the resources into a bulb, operate it at the same performance level it will (on average) last twice as long in the same environmental conditions. Now the real question should be will the production generate twice the amount of greenhouse gasses and will it cost twice the price. Report comment Reply 1. a Jaded Hobo says: January 18, 2021 at 10:13 am The inside of their houses are temp controlled. If they are anything like Singaporeans the lamps will never be run in an environment over 18 Celsius. Report comment Reply 1. RW ver 0.0.1 says: January 18, 2021 at 4:06 pm They don't set the heat to 25 when it's 18C in the winter? :-D Report comment Reply 2. Truth says: January 18, 2021 at 7:12 pm Electrical cables which are usually made from metals that are also fantastic conductors of heat, are inside an insulating material which is also pretty good for insulating thermal energy as well. The question would be can the thermal energy conducted through the power distribution network of cables from outside be removed faster by the air condition system inside to drop the temperature of the end points by ~23degC (41degC-18degC) to ~12degC (30degC-18degC). It would reduce it by some, but even under steady state conditions it will still be higher. And the devices themselves are also a source of thermal energy, which would also inhibit any reduction of the temperature of the cables inside the insulated walls of a building. Which is typically where electrical cables are found. I wonder what kind of temperature you would see if you pointed an Infrared Thermometer at the inside of what would be traditionally call a fuse box or a power distribution board, while your temp controlled house was 18 Celsius and the ambient outside temperature was 41 Celsius. Which it would be closer in temperature. Report comment Reply 1. Truth says: January 19, 2021 at 10:13 pm And the air conditioning uses quite a bit of power, so due to the I squared R losses in the electrical wiring, it is in fact contributing energy to heating up the wiring. Report comment Reply 15. Alan says: January 18, 2021 at 10:13 am Most LED light failures are due to the driver circuit, not the LEDs. Report comment Reply 16. Chris Maple says: January 18, 2021 at 10:13 am Putting twice the resources into an LED light can increase the efficiency by a few percent and far more than double the life, depending on construction and design details. For instance, if a normal LED lamp has a 40degC rise over ambient in the LED chips and drive electronics, doubling the component count to halve the current through components might reduce the rise to 20degC over ambient -- thereby quadrupling expected life. We are fortunate that LED technology has become so astonishingly efficient. LED chips are now available with efficiencies well in excess of 70%. This greatly reduces the heatsinking requirements of LED lamps. Report comment Reply 1. Chris Maple says: January 18, 2021 at 10:17 am The link I inserted disappeared -- my fault. http:// donklipstein.com/led.html Report comment Reply 2. Dude says: January 18, 2021 at 1:42 pm >LED chips are now available with efficiencies well in excess of 70%. That's not true. The theoretical upper limit for a white LED is 38.1 - 43.9%. Even with 172 lumens per watt, the absolute efficiency is just 25%. Normal LED bulbs operate at well under 100 lumens per Watt. Report comment Reply 1. rnjacobs says: January 18, 2021 at 5:49 pm We're not comparing to 683 lumens per watt (where your 44% comes from), but watts of electrons in to watts of photons out. This is about minimizing waste heat in the diode, not about maximum brightness to the human eye. For this, conversion efficiencies around 90% for monochromatic sources have been achieved, and high-intensity monochromatic sources (for greenhouses) regularly achieve 70% conversion efficiency. Report comment Reply 1. Dude says: January 19, 2021 at 12:18 am But that's irrelevant. You CAN achieve 70% efficiency with a single narrow band blue LED, but nobody's going to put one in a standard light bulb. After you add the phosphors to produce the other wavelengths to achieve even 50 CRI, your efficiency goes way, way down. Report comment Reply 1. rnjacobs says: January 19, 2021 at 12:52 pm How is it irrelevant when I explicitly said it's about waste heat? Here's what you said: "theoretical upper limit for a white LED is 38.1 - 43.9%" but that means it's only 44% as bright as a monochromatic green light. That's why this property is referred to as efficacy, not efficiency. But you don't want a monochromatic green light, any more than you want a monochromatic red or blue light, so it's a meaningless comparison. In contrast, waste heat matters regardless of what wavelength is being emitted, even if our eyes can't see that light. A device that converts 70% of its input power to photons of the desired wavelengths means it emits half as much waste heat as one that only converts 30% and that means it operates that much cooler. Report comment 17. stopbit says: January 18, 2021 at 11:03 am I wonder if the connection of the zeners is correct. I'd expect a rather high voltage on the gate of the mosfet at turn-on and would be surprised if that worked reliably without a zener on the gate. Report comment Reply 18. David viatron says: January 18, 2021 at 6:03 pm Here is a very annoying l.e.d. filament light bulb problem concerning Philips lighting Ltd illegally naming the l.e.d. filament light bulb after an Arab country such as DUBAI via it's a very serious insult to us in the u.k. who can't buy them? Or even this very vital debate will be finally brought to attention with both Phillips lighting Ltd & H.M. trading standards dept in London via banning the Arab country's name DUBAI (royal l.e.d. lamps) from it's range subjection to a u.k. government ruling on policy plus putting British made l.e.d. filament light bulbs what isn't available in DUBAI via renaming it as the GREAT BRITAIN brand on all on our boxes. Report comment Reply 19. Jacob says: January 18, 2021 at 6:51 pm I want to buy these since they are much more efficient and o would've figured they would be on eBay but they are not so how could I get them in the US? Report comment Reply 1. Samuel says: January 18, 2021 at 8:56 pm You can achieve that efficiency by buying higher power LED bulbs and run them at lower power with a dimmer. I noticed my dimmable LED bulbs still light up the entire room acceptably when set to the minimum brightness which draws less tha 1W (for a 15W bulb at max). Report comment Reply 20. Myke Sutherland says: January 18, 2021 at 9:58 pm When Will These Be Available In Australia? Report comment Reply 21. Almani Lighting UAE says: January 22, 2021 at 4:04 am Awesome product. That's what is called real innovation. Keep up the excellent work. Report comment Reply 22. cubeflake says: January 27, 2021 at 11:44 am I wonder how long the electrolytic caps last in these bulbs. Eventually they are probably going to dry out and be the first components to fail. Report comment Reply 1. Nick says: January 30, 2021 at 3:23 am What if they use ceramics or tantalums inatead of electrolytics? Report comment Reply 23. bobbiJay says: February 15, 2021 at 5:09 pm What's with all the kvetching about "LEDs recoup the cost over time...."? Around here, 2-packs of incandescent bulbs are a buck, but 4-packs of dimmable LEDs are also a buck at the Habitat's local "reStore". Why would ANYONE spend twice as much for half the quantity of inferior product? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Report comment Reply 1. Acme Fixer says: April 3, 2021 at 8:40 am It's not legal to sell incandescent lights, I think after 2014. Report comment Reply 1. tlhonmey says: January 20, 2022 at 5:48 pm They just have to meet certain efficiency standards. That's why you'll find the big globes with the tiny little halogen thingy in the middle of them. Because incandescent can be reasonably efficient if you build them right. Also there are exceptions for "rugged" (because incandescent is the only bulb type that doesn't have toxic chemicals in them) and "decorative" (because it needs to look how it needs to look.) The whole "incandescent ban" thing was just a power play because certain, powerful individuals had invested heavily in compact fluorescent manufacturing, only then nobody liked or really wanted them. Most people were holding out for the LED bulbs to get a bit cheaper. So they had to force everybody to buy lots of CFLs to recoup their losses. So they passed efficiency requirements and then got the taxpayer to subsidize buying a whole pile of crappy CFL bulbs full of mercury and shipping them out to everyone for "free" and walked away with all that money in their pockets. Beautiful example of how cronyism sucks the life out of the economy really. Report comment Reply 24. Acme Fixer says: April 3, 2021 at 8:18 am In the early days of LED lights -- about 8 years ago -- the prices were $25 to $50 US, and they were made with a decent heat spreader among other symbols of good design. Nowadays the LED lights are 1/10 the price or less and are made with minimal heat sinking, as simple as possible with a capacitive dropper circuit that dies slowly from transient spikes from the power line. The bulbs lasted s long time _if_ they were mounted with the bulb upright so heat went away from the electronics in the base. But a lot of lamps mountex the bulb down so the heat went up into the electronics and dried up the electrolytic capacitor and no light. I have award winning Philips LED lights that I paid $20 on sale -- I bought them when LED lights first made -and they have never failed. Ten watts and 920 Lm, with CRI of 90. They're the best. Clive is too. Excellent presenter. Report comment Reply 25. Sapioit says: April 10, 2021 at 8:14 am Bigclive has at least 3 videos about that. One in which he introduced the dubai light, one in which he used external things to test lots of different lightbulbs of different types, to see which work without needing to change the circuitry of LED lightbulbs, and one in which he hacked LED lightbulbs to make them more power efficient and longer lasting. Youtube video names below: "The lamps you're not allowed to have. Exploring the Dubai lamps| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4 Make your own Dooby lamps - DIY Dubai lamps (strobing alert) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISTB0ThzhOY Crushing and hacking LED lamps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H09SI5qLmtY Doobying a cheap LED floodlight with lux/efficiency readings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biEZ1TbdhhU Or just go to the "bigclivedotcom" youtube channel, and search "LED dubai", and you will find plenty of videos on the topic. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtM5z2gkrGRuWd0JQMx76qA Report comment Reply 26. Peter Leaback says: March 24, 2022 at 10:57 am A similar product seems to be available in the UK now. Not quite as efficient. https://www.lighting.philips.co.uk/consumer/p/led-bulb/ 8719514343788 Report comment Reply 27. Enrgtech says: November 28, 2022 at 11:29 pm Are LED panels more endurable then bulbs? I'd hate to replace them as often, because when that happens, more good material (enclosure) is wasted then just the light source. Report comment Reply Leave a Reply Cancel reply Please be kind and respectful to help make the comments section excellent. (Comment Policy) This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed. Search Search for: [ ] [Search] Never miss a hack Follow on facebook Follow on twitter Follow on youtube Follow on rss Contact us Subscribe [ ] [ ] [Subscribe] If you missed it * [Badgelife-] Supercon 2022: Michael Whiteley Saves The Badge 2 Comments * [bellai-thu] How Hard Could It Be To Get Millions Of Phone Bills Right? 37 Comments * [FOSDEM_log] FOSDEM 2023: An Open-Source Conference, Literally 6 Comments * [smartphone] Repurposing Old Smartphones: When Reusing Makes More Sense Than Recycling 79 Comments * [Motherboar] Laptop Motherboard? 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