https://hackaday.com/2022/12/24/non-replaceable-battery-not-if-this-proposed-eu-law-passes/ Skip to content Logo Hackaday Primary Menu * Home * Blog * Hackaday.io * Tindie * Hackaday Prize * Submit * About * Search for: [ ] [Search] December 25, 2022 Non-Replaceable Battery? Not If This Proposed EU Law Passes! 70 Comments * by: Jenny List December 24, 2022 * * * * * Title: [Non-Replaceable Batt] Copy Short Link: [https://hackaday.com] Copy [eu-battery] A disturbing trend in consumer electronics has been a steady disappearance of replaceable batteries on our devices. Finding a mobile phone with a swapable battery is a struggle, and many other devices follow the trend by sealing in a Li-Po cell. The result is an ever-shorter life for electronics, and a greater problem with devices going to recycling or worse still, landfill. Hope is at hand though, thanks to a proposed European Union law that would if passed make batteries in appliances "designed so that consumers can easily remove and replace them themselves". In case any readers in the rest of the world wonder what it has to do with them, the EU represents such a huge market that manufacturers can neither ignore it, nor in most cases afford to make separate EU and rest-of-world versions of their products. Thus if the EU requires something for sale in its territories, in most cases it becomes the de facto norm for anything designed to be sold worldwide. We've already seen this with the EU's right to repair legislation, and while we have not doubt that manufacturers will do their best to impede this new law we don't think they will ultimately prevail. Via 9to5Mac. * [share_face] * [share_twit] * [share_in] * [share_mail] Posted in News, Repair HacksTagged batteries, European Union, right to repair Post navigation - A Dungeon Master With A Thermal Printer The Spit-Detecting USB Flash Drive Is Nearly Here - 70 thoughts on "Non-Replaceable Battery? Not If This Proposed EU Law Passes!" 1. William says: December 24, 2022 at 10:46 pm I am of mixed feelings on this one. Sure it would be nice to be able to swap my iPhone battery, but there would be a cost both in terms of the bulkiness of the case and the water-proof-worthiness of the seals. I also wonder what percent of the general public currently replaces the batteries in their non-smart watches versus those who go to a shop to have it done while they wait. Yes, I think replacing phone batteries should be easier, but not so much easier that even a mechanical doofus could do it. At the same time, there is no way to replace the battery in my electric toothbrush. There clearly needs to be some kind of law regarding replaceability, as long as it doesn't go too far defining what "easily replaceable" actually means. Report comment Reply 1. Patxitron says: December 24, 2022 at 11:53 pm An action cam is small and most of the last models are waterproof while having replaceable batteries. Report comment Reply 1. sebastian says: December 25, 2022 at 5:52 am Imagine how small and even more rugged they would be if they didn't have replaceable batteries!!! /s Report comment Reply 1. Retro says: December 25, 2022 at 9:37 am Not much smaller - look at the hero 11 mini. Report comment Reply 2. ono says: December 25, 2022 at 2:35 am It's a great thing if this law gets enacted. Let such problems for the Apple engineers to solve. It might also drive innovation like for example better solid-state batteries. Report comment Reply 3. John T McDougald says: December 25, 2022 at 5:09 am The issue of waterproof ability is a non-issue. Around the world, there are hundreds, thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of items and devices that are built to IP66, 7, 8, even IP69 standards, AND also are serviceable designs. Part of the reason behind non-removable batteries in cell phones was to spawn more sales. Apple started the trend and others soon followed. Using Water and Dust proofing is just an easy excuse. Report comment Reply 4. CoolKoon says: December 25, 2022 at 6:10 am No, the "cost of bulkiness" is a myth, which can be verified by comparing the thickness of various generations of Samsung phones rather well. And frankly I think that the waterproofing concern for the most part is BS as well. Cases in point: while the IP67 rated Samsung Galaxy phones with their removable backplates worked rather well the Sony Xperia phones' IP68 ratings were a big fat lie despite their sealed design. Report comment Reply 1. Andy says: December 25, 2022 at 12:35 pm And don't forget the obligatory giant case that nearly everybody put on their phones because they're too delicate from the start. Start with a design goal of a phone that's the same size and as tough as the average be-cased phone, try to make it look nice, and see what miracles can occur. But alas, that phone wouldn't look very good on a chic white background on a 100x larger than life print in front of the apple store... Report comment Reply 5. tonyvr says: December 25, 2022 at 7:15 am Almost all watches are water resistant, and are much smaller than your phone. Report comment Reply 1. AwD says: December 25, 2022 at 11:11 am While I agree with the sentiment, watches are a poor example. Modern quartz watches use so little power they can be charged for weeks of operation via a small solar cell hidden under the face. In addition, the size of the case has more to do with the aesthetics of the watch than containing the movement and power source - there' s tons of "wasted" space in the average sized men's watch compared to modern cell phones there every cubic millimeter is accounted for, mostly to power the ever growing need for more processing. Report comment Reply 6. Foldi-One says: December 25, 2022 at 7:21 am As the battery in your normal watch should last years, if not decades going to your local handyman who has the case opening tools you won't need makes sense. Its also a much much smaller device - the EU doesn't seem like it is targeting everything with a battery with a 'must have trivial to swap, tooless, powertool style battery' rule, just a battery that is actually replaceable reliably. Which the extra well stuck together phones fail at massively, as even a practised phone fixer with all the special glue softening heatpad and suction tools will sometimes ruin the rest of the device trying to get at the battery or get it unstuck. So the layperson has very little chance of success. But add say a few tiny screws rather than that heap of glue the device is practically unchanged design wise, really won't cost much more to make but suddenly its trivial to replace with simple tools. Report comment Reply 1. Jim Sokoloff says: December 25, 2022 at 10:51 am As a layperson, I've replaced about 5 iPhone batteries and 3 iPhone screens for family members, using only a hair dryer, knockoff screwdrivers, and one of those pliers style suction cup openers (so ~$20 in tools other than the hair dryer). It's not difficult and my success rate is 100%. Report comment Reply 1. Donald Gillies says: December 25, 2022 at 11:47 am We cracked an iphone 5 screen replacing the battery. There is no fcking reason on earth why apple cannot make a battery that swaps in 60s and that is what European law should require since americans are too environmentally careless to require it themselves ... Report comment Reply 2. Foldi-One says: December 25, 2022 at 12:51 pm You are reading this webpage I think that largely excludes you from being a real lay-person... And while you have done a few you really haven't done enough to say anything other than I've been lucky enough that its not gone wrong yet - and with a hairdrier I'd not be surprised if you can't actually get the right temperature across the whole thing, so you have overheated other parts OR not actually softened all the glue enough everywhere that the prying can cause damage. Not saying it can't be done that way, as obviously it can but with how delicate the other parts inside can be and the shear quantity of glue in some of these things it doesn't take doing anything much wrong to have a failure... Report comment Reply 1. Jim Sokoloff says: December 25, 2022 at 2:41 pm Going 8 for 8 with simple tools and living with those phones for years afterwards without issue suggests this isn't exactly a Herculean feat... Report comment 7. cakeslob says: December 25, 2022 at 10:01 am "At the same time, there is no way to replace the battery in my electric toothbrush." Are you saying this out of experience or assumption? On Braun/OralB toothbrushes, the tang on the charging dock , is the battery removal tool, and its actually really easy, and uses a standard battery. On other toothbrushes, its the body thats threaded and you unscrew it. Report comment Reply 2. Doug says: December 24, 2022 at 11:10 pm It's more complex than this. I like having my devices being waterproof. Looks like that's going away. On the other hand I will be able to replace the battery in my s27 phone, so I will get three years out of it rather than two. Report comment Reply 1. Alphatek says: December 24, 2022 at 11:21 pm Nah. I had a waterproof phone with a replaceable battery in the early 2000s. Proper gasket seal and everything. Really can't remember what model it was though! Report comment Reply 1. Leithoa says: December 25, 2022 at 9:17 am Nextel had one of the first popular ones, toshiba toughbooks have been around forever, and samsung had their 'rugby' line in the late 00's Report comment Reply 2. Markus says: December 24, 2022 at 11:22 pm Is perfectly possible to make device water proof even replaceable battery. Its just matter of having proper seal and few screws. Current trend of glued bricks promote unnecessary environmental load by artificially having expire date on device do to battery going bad by age. Report comment Reply 3. Eggert says: December 24, 2022 at 11:28 pm As far as I understand, waterproof devices are explicitly not in that regulation Report comment Reply 1. Jack says: December 25, 2022 at 1:59 am So basically all phones will be waterproof from now on. Report comment Reply 1. llingnau says: December 25, 2022 at 5:10 am This. hehe Report comment Reply 2. Foldi-One says: December 25, 2022 at 7:23 am May be an unintended consequence of this, but that is still a win for the EU's goals in bringing these rules in - as less tech will be written off as waste after water damage. Report comment Reply 1. Ostracus says: December 25, 2022 at 7:42 am One mans waste is another mans profit. https://youtu.be/y5QkM2Work0?t=658 Report comment 4. PPJ says: December 24, 2022 at 11:31 pm "I like having my devices being waterproof. Looks like that's going away." IP67 and IP68 in mobile market was available at times when all mobiles had headphone jacks. And those times are not so distant. Report comment Reply 1. acolombo25 says: December 25, 2022 at 2:08 am And what does a headphone jack has to do with a repleceable battery? Report comment Reply 1. PPJ says: December 25, 2022 at 3:55 am I heard similar arguments about removing headphone jacks - maybe I should not refer to personal experience. Report comment Reply 5. O says: December 25, 2022 at 2:04 am "I like having my devices being waterproof. Looks like that's going away." O-ring gaskets be like "am I a joke to you?" And if it does happen, it's because manufacturers are being skinflints now that they're gonna find out after fucking around with making battery replacements a bitch for so long since that's one of many steps to introduce planned obsolescence. Report comment Reply 6. Yes papa says: December 25, 2022 at 2:57 am I can't imagine a well paid engineer can't figure this one out... Phones price have been rising just based on chip innovation, it's a good time to improve on casing too. Are we going to be looking for excuses to argument in favor of multi million dollar companies now? I'm so sad about Apple and the rest... Report comment Reply 7. Severe Tire Damage says: December 25, 2022 at 10:14 am Not at all true. I have a 10 year old dive computer with replaceable batteries (Suunto). We aren't talking about "water resistant", but water proof such that you can trust your life on it. It is just easier and cheaper to make things waterproof by sealing the batteries inside. Now whether the manufacturers will go the extra mile (or kilometer) to make them both replaceable AND waterproof is yet another question. Report comment Reply 8. Donald Gillies says: December 25, 2022 at 11:52 am Electric watches are waterproof. Like most of the things that Apple does they do this in order to screw their customers out of extra money that's the motivation for 90% of what they do! Report comment Reply 3. jpa says: December 24, 2022 at 11:19 pm My past few phones have been made obsolete by lack of security updates, not by battery wearing out. Laptops are a different thing, often the battery is replaceable but it is hard to find reputable replacement batteries after a few years. Report comment Reply 1. John Boxall says: December 24, 2022 at 11:29 pm Great news. Now can we have mandated security and OS updates that allow the phone to operate for five years? Thank you. Report comment Reply 1. Dan says: December 25, 2022 at 4:39 am iPhones seem to get security updates for at least 5 years - the 2015 6SAs still gets security updates according to Wikipedia. Do other big brands like Samsung not? And I find battery life is fine for at least 3 years. It's the performance that hurts most on older devices as newer software needs more and more resources. I've replaced batteries in several MacBooks, and I've been very disappointed. It's very hard to get a good quality replacement battery. Even ones from very legitimate looking sellers with good reviews don't last anywhere near as long as the originals - they're fine for a few months but the capacity drops. Next time I'll get Apple to do the replacement. When I've had them replace a battery in an iPhone it's been good as new and lasted years like the original. So whilst I'm all for repairability, I think the EU is in the wrong here. This won't help consumers. If they want to mandate for repairability, they should look at non-portable stuff - toasters and kettles, vacuums, washing machines, and TVs. But no, they've got some grudge against Apple and Google. Report comment Reply 1. Mark+S. says: December 25, 2022 at 4:47 am Guess what? They also look at other products. Maybe you are the one with a grudge? Report comment Reply 2. Lol says: December 25, 2022 at 1:17 pm How's the boot taste? This won't help consumers? What a crock! Report comment Reply 2. Jouni says: December 25, 2022 at 1:20 am 7 years old iPhones are getting newest iOS. What's the problem? Report comment Reply 3. Oliver says: December 25, 2022 at 6:53 am My 10+ year old galaxy note2 which I am typing this on, running lineages 19.1 begs to differ. It was exactly because of replace a me batteries. Yes, we absolutely need to deal better with software, shouldn't be on the plate of voulenteers, but that is a different discussion Report comment Reply 4. Mhajicek says: December 24, 2022 at 11:21 pm Despite what cell phone companies would like consumers to believe, waterproofing and replaceable batteries are not mutually exclusive. It's just ever so slightly more expensive to have both. Report comment Reply 5. denis says: December 24, 2022 at 11:39 pm The big problem isn't the replacing (90%of the time) it's sourcing good genuine quality parts. What's the point being able to change a battery if all you can buy is seconds, rejects or fakes. Report comment Reply 1. Dan says: December 25, 2022 at 4:40 am This is 100% my experience when replacing batteries in laptops. Even claimed "OEM" stuff is junk. You can pay as much as to have Apple replace it themselves and all you get is junk with a higher markup. Report comment Reply 2. ian 42 says: December 25, 2022 at 12:35 pm agreed. The manufacturer stops making them, then you have a choice between which fake battery - none of which do more than 100 charges - that you get.. Report comment Reply 6. juergenUK says: December 25, 2022 at 12:36 am Where is the online list that shows the ones of the brands with replaceable batteries and the ones that are not. So we have an easier choice. There are so many social media where this could be placed. Why do we add unnecessary waste to our planet? It seems the EU tries to keep the world a bit cleaner. Which as well means that the rest of the world gives a shit about the same. And this applies not only to batteries, but is exactly the same for a lot of products that are manufactured for waste - no chance to repair. OK, manufacture for waste gives a cheaper product and more throughput. But then somebody else has to pay for getting rid of this waste. In nature (nearly) everything is recycled - including all of us here. Have a nice Christmas and there might be some time left to think about ideas like this. Report comment Reply 1. lj says: December 25, 2022 at 12:58 am https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=umtsover&xf= 10063_10.0~3229_2022~3287_wechselbar&sort=t&v=e Report comment Reply 1. juergenUK says: December 25, 2022 at 1:27 am Thank you very much to get a link list started. Report comment Reply 7. greenbit says: December 25, 2022 at 3:50 am Easily replaceable has to mean two things: 1. Physically removable common tools 2. Absolutely no 'DRM' vendor lock-in Otherwise, what's the point? Report comment Reply 8. shod says: December 25, 2022 at 4:11 am The EU: But first.. enforced backdoors and EU state control of what you say to each other. Report comment Reply 9. HBH says: December 25, 2022 at 5:29 am This all may pave the way for super capacitors development into the mass market. They are not batteries in a sense that the "chemically" hold the charge, hence they could be build in. An additional advantage is a near unlimited lifespan - at least in the world of consume electronics. Report comment Reply 10. Bob says: December 25, 2022 at 6:21 am Standardized batteries. Most every phone, flashlight, laptop, power tool has some unique battery. Buy an electric drill and you're locked into their tool ecosystem. I'm tired of it. Not only require replaceable batteries in every battery-powered device but dictate a small number of standard battery sizes. I don't care if my phone or watch or laptop is a millimeter smaller /bigger than the next guy. You buy a car it runs on gas or diesel. You don't have to buy ford or chevy or toyota gas. It's just gas. Report comment Reply 1. Foldi-One says: December 25, 2022 at 7:47 am I have no objection to the power tool vendor lock in really, but only if the vendor does the decent thing and keeps interoperability and/or availability for a long long time and don't jack up their prices on the tools stupidly - Ryobi stand out there to me with the 'One' range being compatible for a very very long time now, with good tool prices. It would be nice if they were all the same across vendors, but that also means you don't have much scope for new form factors etc so overall IFF the company does it well I don't object there. Similar with DSLR, phone, laptop battery really - its a small device with potentially very complex and significant volumes of inner workings, with specific voltage and current requirements, that also needs to get its ergonomics correct - force your camera to use the standard 'small' battery for instance and it may not have the voltage or current available to run its flash in the ideal way, and that battery may still be rather on the large and heavy side for it making the camera unbalanced or just making changing battery really challenging - it is just too much of a design constraint added on top of the many other constraints that make the device good to use. Just as long as you can get new battery, preferably from official reseller or directly at a sane price and they don't go changing battery shape and size by tiny annoying amounts for no good reason. Report comment Reply 2. Piotrsko says: December 25, 2022 at 8:44 am Standardized batteries? Ever hear of "D" "C" 9v......back in the '50 s you had all sorts of standards, but they had other issues solved by todays packs Report comment Reply 1. echodelta says: December 25, 2022 at 9:46 am All those are obsolete, the voltages are incompatible with lithium cell voltages. Others include N, all the B (+) batteries, those Varta flat packs, and ever smaller button cells that sell for the same price. Report comment Reply 3. Evan says: December 25, 2022 at 8:47 am This will materially increase the size of the device. Report comment Reply 11. Comedicles says: December 25, 2022 at 8:39 am Doesn't this seem like something the market can handle? If people want it then someone can/will make it. Why a mandate? If the people in a country actually want this feature and they think it is worth the extra cost, they can get it. There are plenty of comments here about the pros and cons of waterproofing with replaceable batteries and summing up the (inconsequential) effects and benefits and the kinds of laws one needs. In all this political science I don't see anything about actually building the phones or starting a phone company. Hmmm. Report comment Reply 1. Foldi-One says: December 25, 2022 at 12:59 pm Because the producers of such things DON'T WANT TO make it - it costs them practically nothing extra per device to make them with easy change battery and great waterproofing, but does mean they won't get to sell as many of their new models every year, so they don't do it. So until the phone makers manage to figure out how to charge a subscription service for the torch functionality or something stupid like that instead they won't. It takes a mandate to force at least a few of them who value trade in Europe enough to actually produce this stuff, at which point as they tend to then sell the same product name and it is actually at least largely the same device in the Americas and Asia the folks there CAN choose to buy it based on that feature. Can't do that if it doesn't exist, and once it exists the rest of the market may have to follow as it turns out they didn't know what the consumer really wanted afterall. Report comment Reply 12. Evan says: December 25, 2022 at 8:44 am This is super dumb. You're forcing the manufacturer to make a thicker phone for everyone where the market CLEARLY doesn't care. Current iPhone is 7.65mm thick. The pocket for a battery will require AT MINIMUM a wall of 1.2mm or more. Add in the screws/ clips/retainers and you're probably looking at an additional claim of ~0.2mm. So you've added 18% to the thickness for a benefit that current consumers don't care about. Report comment Reply 13. Gary Crowell says: December 25, 2022 at 8:54 am I would gladly allow my phone to be 0.05'' thicker to allow battery replacement. Report comment Reply 1. Evan says: December 25, 2022 at 9:08 am Just out of curiosity, do you currently own a phone with a user replaceable battery? If not, doesn't that mean that, in terms of that tradeoff, you actually prefer the thinner phone? Report comment Reply 1. Matthew says: December 25, 2022 at 1:55 pm I went from a galaxy s3 to a galaxy a10e the s3 with removable battery was 8.6mm and the a10e is 8.4mm, or the thickness of 2 sheets of copy paper. Cant even tell the difference Report comment Reply 14. HackJack says: December 25, 2022 at 9:06 am That would be the best thing since (China?) standardized the charging requirement to 5V USB. I am sure there is a way to make phone with replaceable battery yet remains waterproof. Report comment Reply 15. Alexander Wikstrom says: December 25, 2022 at 10:40 am Having followed the link to the law proposal. I don't think it is majorly important and it won't be something phone and laptop manufacture's will argue against in the slightest. The whole law proposal is about batteries in industrial applications, as well as Electric vehicles, light means of transport (ie, scooters, e-bikes and such). The minimum required battery capacity to be applicable to this law proposal is 2 kWh. And last I checked, the majority of laptops, nor any phone comes close to 5% of that. So no. This law proposal doesn't in the slightest have to do with your phone battery. Report comment Reply 1. Foldi-One says: December 25, 2022 at 1:02 pm Actually it will hit the phone market, just not yet, 'Three and a half years after the entry into force of the legislation, portable batteries in appliances must be designed so that consumers can easily remove and replace them themselves.' Report comment Reply 16. spi says: December 25, 2022 at 11:22 am Easiest solution is the ability to restrict maximum charging level. I have bluetooth enabled charger which is controlled by termux-battery-status. When maximum charging level is kept at 70% there has been no erosion of battery capacity in 3 years. Only when truly needed I charge to 100% Report comment Reply 17. Mystick says: December 25, 2022 at 11:33 am Many of these "integrated" batteries are, in fact, replaceable, but require specialized knowledge, and often tools(physical and software) in order to make it happen. Also, in order to get the parts themselves, some manufacturers require the repairer to be a registered/licensed distributor of the brand. Louis Rossman on YouTube can tell you all about it. Report comment Reply 18. Kilian Demmel says: December 25, 2022 at 12:14 pm It would be great to have replaceable batteries back, but it would be even greater if manufacturers were forced to release documentation so that software could be written for end-of-service devices (capped at max. 10 years or so). Report comment Reply 19. Kan Chun says: December 25, 2022 at 12:44 pm I think it is a controversial topic that nobody knows what they are talking about nor each other is talking about. It seems a trival proposal but unpractical. Similar to built in or replaceable batterypack for laptop. To make end user or easily replaceable battery seems simple but will caused a lot of unexpected trouble. I guess these issues will let the corresponding parties to find out. We could do a professional priced product or a fmcg. The manufacturers or end users will decide what they needed and what they afford to pay for. Report comment Reply 1. Foldi-One says: December 25, 2022 at 1:06 pm Really can't see it making anything problematic at all - we used to have trivial to change battery in phone and laptop, heck the on the road professionals would often have extra battery and even hotswappable batteries with in car chargers for their portables! It was never hard to make 'em that way, not even hard to make them rather thin and waterproof that way. It only stopped because it didn't help the manufacturers profit margins, as they can't know they will be able to sell everyone a new device in 2-5 years time when the battery is dead... Report comment Reply 20. IY says: December 25, 2022 at 1:13 pm I also want swppable batteries in laptops back! Report comment Reply 21. Stuart Longland says: December 25, 2022 at 2:52 pm Can't come soon enough. It's not like making the battery compartment waterproof is an impossibility -- it has been done before with mobile phones before they decided to glue everything together. Whilst they're at it, maybe they could consider: * RF connectors for the LTE antenna -- not everybody spends 100% of their lives next to (or in good LoS of) a cell tower * Releasing design docs and firmware when the phone goes out of support so that third parties can take on the role -- replacing a perfectly serviceable phone due to software limitations every two years is utter nonsense * Aim for 5-10 year product life-span to reduce e-waste and reliance on raw materials (particularly conflict materials!) Report comment Reply Leave a Reply Cancel reply Please be kind and respectful to help make the comments section excellent. (Comment Policy) This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed. 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