https://stancarey.wordpress.com/2013/11/27/yan-tan-tethera-pethera-pimp-an-old-system-for-counting-sheep/ Sentence first An Irishman's blog about the English language. * Home * About * Comments policy * Editing and proofreading Yan tan tethera pethera pimp -- an old system for counting sheep If any lightfoot Clod Dewvale was to hold me up, dicksturping me and marauding me of my rights to my onus, yan, tyan, tethera, methera, pimp, I'd let him have my best pair of galloper's heels in the creamsourer. --James Joyce, Finnegans Wake Though I grew up in the countryside, I'm not of direct farming stock, which may be why I learned of 'yan tan tethera' only quite recently. It's an old counting system used traditionally by shepherds in parts of the UK, and also in knitting and fishing and so on, or by children for their own amusement. stan carey - herd of sheep in Ireland, spring 2009 - yan tan tethera Metheradik (=14) sheep in the west of Ireland (photo by Stan Carey) The system seems to have been scattered around Britain, and its distribution and antiquity mean there's a lot of variation in the forms it takes. The numbers' names come from a Brythonic Celtic language, and they vary with dialect, geography, and other factors. Wikipedia has what looks like a reasonably well-sourced article with many examples of the system; here are a few, alongside Welsh for comparison: +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | No. | Wilts | Scots | Lakes | Dales | Welsh | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 1 | Ain | Yan | Auna | Yain | Un | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 2 | Tain | Tyan | Peina | Tain | Dau | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 3 | Tethera | Tethera | Para | Edderoa | Tri | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 4 | Methera | Methera | Peddera | Peddero | Pedwar | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 5 | Mimp | Pimp | Pimp | Pitts | Pump | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 6 | Ayta | Sethera | Ithy | Tayter | Chwech | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 7 | Slayta | Lethera | Mithy | Leter | Saith | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 8 | Laura | Hovera | Owera | Overro | Wyth | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 9 | Dora | Dovera | Lowera | Coverro | Naw | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 10 | Dik | Dik | Dig | Dix | Deg | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 11 | Ain-a-dik | Yanadik | Ain-a-dig | Yain-dix | Un ar ddeg | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 12 | Tain-a-dik | Tyanadik | Pein-a-dig | Tain-dix | Deuddeg | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 13 | Tethera-a-dik| Tetheradik | Para-a-dig | Eddero- | Tri ar ddeg | | | | | |dix | | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 14 | Methera-a-dik| Metheradik | Peddaer-a-dig | Pedderp- | Pedwar ar | | | | | |dix |ddeg | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 15 | Mit | Bumfitt | Bunfit | Bumfitt | Pymtheg | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 16 | Ain-a-mit | Yanabumfitt | Aina-a-bumfit | Yain-o-bumfitt | Un ar | | | | | | |bymtheg | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 17 | Tain-a-mit | Tyanabumfitt | Pein-a-bumfit | Tain-o-bumfitt | Dau ar | | | | | | |bymtheg | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 18 | Tethera-mit | Tetherabumfitt| Par-a-bunfit | Eddero-bumfitt | Deunaw | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 19 | Gethera-mit | Metherabumfitt| Pedder-a-bumfit| Peddero-bumfitt| Pedwar ar | | | | | | |bymtheg | |-------------+--------------+---------------+----------------+----------------+-------------| | 20 | Ghet | Giggot | Giggy | Jiggit | Ugain | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ The Lakeland Dialect Society has a useful article written by Ted Relph about the yan tan tethera system that includes a nice summary of how it works: There would seem to be a clear connection with counting on the fingers, particularly after getting to 10, as the best known local examples then go 1 and 10, 2 and 10, etc up to 15, then 1 and 15, 2 and 15, etc up to 20. The count invariably ended at 20. This was a 'score' and a scratch was then put in a stick or stone, and the count recommenced. In this way things were counted in scores. It is said that the shepherds, on reaching 20, would transfer a pebble or marble from one pocket to another, so as to keep a tally of the number of scores. Several of the numbers are strongly suggestive of Welsh or Cornish, but their origins are complex, with the rhymes that were used as a mnemonic aid obscuring the derivation in some cases. A letter written by the great philologist Walter Skeat in 1907, and published in the West Sussex Gazette, gives some indication of the mixed etymology: The original Celtic numerals were frequently forgotten, and their places supplied by words that were more or less founded on rhyme. And sometimes the Celtic words were supplemented by English ones. Owing to the corrupt forms that thus resulted, many of the formulae are of slight philological interest or value. That the original counting was in Celtic, chiefly appears from some forms that still remain. Thus the Welsh pump, five, explains the Eskdale pimp, and the Knaresborough pip, and others. The Welsh deg, ten, explains the forms dix, dec, dick, dik. But yan (whence yain, yaena, yah) is only a dialectal form of the English one. And tain, taena, tean are merely altered forms of two, whilst the rest of the word is made to rhyme: e.g. yain, tain, yaena, taena ; yan, tean ; yah, tiah ; and so on. The Welsh pedwar, four, has become first peddero (also pethera and pether) and afterwards meddera, methera, mether. Yan tan tethera has crept into all sorts of cultural corners, though not so much in Ireland; Finnegans Wake is a notable exception, the sequence a natural fit with that book's poetic promiscuity. It also shows up in album titles, art works, house signs and the like. Finally, here's a charming clip of the English poet, singer and storyteller Jake Thackray introducing and performing yan tan tethera in an autobiographical vein. See if you don't end up humming the melody for the rest of the day. And two further fine renditions, by folk singer Maz O'Connor: and vocal trio Yan Tan Tether: * Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) * Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window) * Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window) * Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window) * Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window) * Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window) * Like this: Like Loading... Related This entry was posted on Wednesday, November 27th, 2013 at 1:13 pm and is filed under dialect, etymology, language, language history, nature, philology, poetry. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site. Post navigation << Previous Post Next Post >> 27 Responses to Yan tan tethera pethera pimp -- an old system for counting sheep 1. [351] richardsmyth says: November 27, 2013 at 1:15 pm Lovely post, Stan, and a terrific clip - but it's Jake, not Jack, Thackray. Reply + [141] Stan says: November 27, 2013 at 2:25 pm Fixed. Thanks, Richard. Reply 2. [e68] Vinetta Bell says: November 27, 2013 at 2:32 pm Good morning, (in the USA), Stan! Good afternoon to you in Ireland. Thanks for an interesting post. For some reason, upon reading your chart comparing numbers in different dialects (the right term in this context?), I thought of biblical Hebrew, which I don't know but with which I have a little familiarity due to my daily and considerable reading of the Bible, KJV 1611 version. However, my quick Google search did not yield the answer to my inquiry. You appear to be a linguist. My one graduate level course in linguistics permits me to understand some of what you write about the technical nature (etymology) of language. The short video you embedded is both entertaining and informative. Thanks! And, I wish you and your family a safe and happy Thanksgiving. Reply 3. [a87] Jenni Lukac says: November 27, 2013 at 4:40 pm Lovely! Reply 4. [93b] languagehat says: November 27, 2013 at 4:45 pm There are some interesting comments in this old LH thread. Reply 5. [141] Stan says: November 27, 2013 at 5:06 pm Vinetta: Good morning and good afternoon to you further west (and good evening, since it's turning dusky here already). I wouldn't call them dialects, since each version of the system is a mixture of quite disparate dialects and languages. I'd call them versions or variations of an old counting system (that's based chiefly on Celtic dialects). For the record, I'm not a linguist, though I have an abiding interest in the area; my educational background is in the life sciences. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family too. Jenni: Very! Thanks for stopping by. LH: Ah yes. I should have searched your site for this - if any language blog was likely to've covered it, it's yours. Of particular interest, and not mentioned in my post, are the folk song 'The Lincolnshire Shepherd', this collection of regional variations, and these beautiful wood engravings. Reply 6. [c7a] Yan tan tethera and the Rock of the Old North | Curlew River says: November 27, 2013 at 7:29 pm [...] read this interesting post on the origins of the various, related counting systems used by shepherds in northern England, [...] Reply 7. [922] alexmccrae1546 says: November 27, 2013 at 8:46 pm Stan, thanks for this intriguing cross-cultural, (yet commonly rooted in Celtic dialect), comparison of related sheep counting methods in various British sheep rearing locales. Jake Thackery 's wonderful musings on counting sheep, even connecting w/ his ancestral roots in his brief account of the ill-fated shepherdess, Molly Metcalfe, was thoroughly engaging. Almost immediately, I was struck by Thackery's sonorous, fairly monotone, deep basso-baritone voice, as well as his heavy-lidded, eyes; as if he were about to drift off to beddy-byes. Which got me pondering as to the possible efficacy of using this lyrical Gaelic sheep count... Yan. tan, tethera...etc. as a viable method of helping one doze off to slumberland. Counting imaginary sheep was kind of an old-school option for insomniacs to fall asleep, back in the day; but w/ the array of readily available over-the-counter oral sleep aids such as melatonin, Lunestra*, Sominex, and the like, the sheep counting modality seems to have gone the way of the Dodo. Hmm... counting Dodos? Now there's a concept. *Might need a prescription for that Lunestra. Reply 8. [545] Claude says: November 28, 2013 at 5:27 am Fascinating article.Love the video! Reply 9. [141] Stan says: November 28, 2013 at 1:11 pm Alex: I found Thackray's (note spelling) performance engaging too - even haunting, as a Twitter friend put it. It would be nice to think that people do actually count sheep to invite sleep. Claude: Thank you! The video is one I've returned to quite a few times. A perfect match of story, song, and rich history. Reply 10. [922] alexmccrae1546 says: November 28, 2013 at 4:46 pm Stan, thanks for Jake's name clarification in your last reply. For me, (and I'm sure for scores of other readers), his surname immediately evoked the name of the much lauded Victorian era satirist, William Makepeace Thackeray... sans the "e", of course. So in my earlier offering of my 'two-cents-worth', I wanted to be sure to spell this raconteur's name in the attached video, correctly. And sure enough, I blew it on two counts w/ my erroneous "Thackery"- spelling both the late Vanity Fair parodist, and this basso-profundo gent, Jake's last names, incorrectly. Oh well. I can appreciate your Twitter friend's "haunting" take on Mr. Thackray's subtly riveting performance. That bouncy, rhyming sheep-count does kind of linger in one's noggin for a spell. P.S.:--Happy Thanksgiving to all those celebrants out there. We truly all have much to be thankful for... including our blogmeister Stan, who allows us to openly commune, and share in our mutual love of words, word usage, word origins, word play, and the infinite wonders of our ever-evolving English tongue. Stan, thanks for being there (and here... Ha!), and generously giving of yourself, each and every day. Reply + [e68] Vinetta Bell says: November 28, 2013 at 5:22 pm Thanks, Alex McCrae, for giving a "shout-out" to Stan. He deserves it. Thanks, Stan! Reply 11. [380] Sean J. says: November 29, 2013 at 12:22 am Immense joy to read, watch, listen and learn. Thanks a lot, Stan. Reply 12. [661] Links 17 - 29/11/13 | Alastair's Adversaria says: November 29, 2013 at 4:01 am [...] 38. Yan Tan Tethera Pethera Pimp - An Old System For Counting Sheep [...] Reply 13. [141] Stan says: November 29, 2013 at 10:39 am Alex, Vinetta, thanks very much, and many happy returns. Sean, I'm glad you enjoyed it. It would be nice to think that someone somewhere is still using the system for practical purposes out in the fields. Reply + [763] Amy Bogard says: March 5, 2014 at 4:02 am I have been contemplating this rhyming system for a long while as an illustrated book. This song just nails it!! Reply o [141] Stan says: March 5, 2014 at 10:36 am That sounds like a lovely idea, Amy. The melody is back in my head after I listened to Thackray's version again yesterday. Reply 14. [bf3] Nurn says: November 30, 2013 at 1:40 am Stan, quite apart from the very interesting post, thanks for introducing me to Jake Thackray, and Maz O'Connor. That's a very evocative song. Reply + [141] Stan says: November 30, 2013 at 11:43 am You're most welcome, Nurn. I've become fond of the tune too. Reply 15. [9c6] wisewebwoman says: December 2, 2013 at 4:44 pm I can't get over "bumfitt" and will use it every chance I get. To hell with 15. XO WWW Reply 16. [c1d] Jonathon Owen says: December 2, 2013 at 7:13 pm Thanks for sharing, Stan. It's amazing to me that traces of Celtic have survived in English for so long. Reply 17. [141] Stan says: December 2, 2013 at 7:39 pm WWW: To hell with 15. Ha ha. I'd love if it caught on. Jonathon: Testament to the system's utility and catchiness, maybe. It deserves to survive in some shape or form. Reply 18. Unlocking the language with Robert Burchfield | Sentence first says: March 14, 2014 at 1:18 pm [...] classified; I was particularly struck by imberb "beardless"), obscure counting words like yan, tan, tethera, methera, pip, and miscellaneous [...] Reply 19. [cdc] How to count sheep | The Proof Angel says: March 15, 2014 at 3:55 pm [...] of old language will like this one. Old numbering systems. There are some lovely words in there, but it isn't hard to see how the modern equivalents [...] Reply 20. Irish Influence | Scribe of Theran says: March 17, 2014 at 4:43 am [...] from a wide variety of sources. The following is a bit of Theran culture that developed from a blog post by linguist Stan Carey. (He's Irish, so that's where I made my [...] Reply 21. E005 - Labels, names and heuristics - Foolish Musings says: November 24, 2019 at 1:03 pm [...] Shepard counting systems in Britain, https://stancarey.wordpress.com/2013/11/27/ yan-tan-tethera-pethera-pimp-an-old-system-for-counting-sheep [...] Reply 22. [0e0] Maurits van Stralen says: May 1, 2021 at 8:27 am I'm wandering What zero (0) is in Scots Reply Leave a Reply Cancel reply Enter your comment here... [ ] Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: * * * * Gravatar Email (required) (Address never made public) [ ] Name (required) [ ] Website [ ] WordPress.com Logo You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. ( Log Out / Change ) Twitter picture You are commenting using your Twitter account. 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