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Learn More discussions in r/linux <> X * 6 comments ARM Linux Loader on Nintendo 3DS 109 * 7 comments How to learn Linux and contributing 930 * 198 comments Hugo runs twice as fast in Asahi Linux than macOS on the same M1 Mac system o_O 172 * 291 comments Is flatpak really the future? 1664 * 138 comments Quake 1 running natively on an iMac with Asahi Linux! First version of M1 NVMe driver (plus RTKit and SART dependencies) submitted 8 * 4 comments Finitodo (graphical task / todo list manager for Linux) updated to version 1.4 76 * 6 comments Rendering Text with Glyphy * 6 comments How come tty2 is so fast and smooth compared to a terminal emulator. 314 * 67 comments The 5.17 kernel has been released Welcome to Reddit, the front page of the internet. Become a Redditor and join one of thousands of communities. x 925 926 927 HardwareHugo runs twice as fast in Asahi Linux than macOS on the same M1 Mac system o_O (i.redd.it) submitted 20 hours ago by jasoneckert * 198 comments * share * save * hide * report [3wxharcsbno81] all 198 comments sorted by: best topnewcontroversialoldrandomq&alive (beta) [ ] Want to add to the discussion? Post a comment! Create an account [-]jasoneckert[S] 190 points191 points192 points 20 hours ago* (128 children) Hugo on Asahi Linux composites all 275 pages of my website in less than half of the time (210ms) it takes the same build of Hugo within macOS on the same machine (557ms). A previous build of my website (273 pages) using a slightly older version of Hugo is discussed in this blog post: https://jasoneckert.github.io/myblog/power-of-risc/ As I was customizing Asahi to my liking (installing GNOME, LibreOffice, Docker/k3s, Bluefish, dotfiles, etc.), I noticed that apps were unusually fast (even LibreOffice apps open instantly), so I added Hugo to see if the OS made a significant difference. It appears so... * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]GoodToKnowYouAll 97 points98 points99 points 19 hours ago (2 children) Is Hugo in MacOS native or running in Rosetta? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]jasoneckert[S] 74 points75 points76 points 12 hours ago (0 children) It's native. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Iuse_arch_btw 25 points26 points27 points 12 hours ago (0 children) Native * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]small_kimono 136 points137 points138 points 19 hours ago* (112 children) Is there any reason why? I had an app I was profiling on MacOS v. Linux and I had a 2x performance difference which ultimately came down to Rust's libc not implementing the statx call on MacOS. I guess what I'm trying to say is -- I'd caution against thinking this is some inherent property of the OS. A 2x performance difference, to me, sounds like an invitation to do more benchmarking, because "Why?" * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]JockstrapCummies 133 points134 points135 points 18 hours ago (76 children) I'd caution against thinking this is some inherent property of the OS. You know how web browsers and GPU drivers have always been worse on Linux? It's like that for dev tools on macOS. macOS is a second class citizen when it comes to a lot of development tools. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]small_kimono 56 points57 points58 points 18 hours ago (37 children) So true. "Where the heck is valgrind?" is perhaps the best example. "Why does the dtrace experience suck compared to everywhere else even with SIP off?" is the next. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]JockstrapCummies 59 points60 points61 points 18 hours ago (33 children) You don't even need to go full low level debugging to taste the pain. Even just setting up a dev env can lead to headaches. I've seen numerous times when macOS using friends had to nuke their Homebrew installation because of course this 3rd party package manager sometimes doesn't handle OS level upgrades. I can't understand how people who live in CLI land would want to use an OS where your own CLI world is basically its own 3rd party distro sitting on top of an official distro that you actively replace because you actually want GNU tools anyway. At least the fonts look good I suppose? But even then it doesn't make any actual sense. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]Jannik2099 3 points4 points5 points 14 hours ago (1 child) Where the heck is valgrind? To be fair, valgrind is not as useful as it has been. asan (address sanitizer) replaces and surpasses it in a lot of situations * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]Angry-Cyclops 1 point2 points3 points 3 hours ago (0 children) Literally so true! I'm in university and currently taking a low level class with Assembly/ low level C and Linux students just had to install a couple packages like valgrind, gdb etc... but those on MacOS were asked to either install a VM or do all the assignments for the class on a remote ssh machine. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]mattias_jcb 16 points17 points18 points 10 hours ago (0 children) I know this wasn't your point exactly, but I'd like to put in some nuance here. GPU drivers on Linux (AMD and Intel) have been really good the last couple of years and Intel has been good for a lot longer. These days the AMD Linux drivers performs about the same as its Windows counterparts. Sometimes better sometimes worse. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]fatboy93 7 points8 points9 points 10 hours ago* (32 children) Just a terrible question I have and nothing to nitpick. If devtooling on macOS is terrible, why do many devs choose macOS over say any Linux distro? Is it just the whole parts are greater than the sum? Edit: thank you all! You guys have been awesome with the responses! It's indeed a mixture of whole parts and workflows support! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ionlydosupport 10 points11 points12 points 9 hours ago (20 children) If devtooling on macOS is terrible, why do many devs choose macOS over say any Linux distro? Sleep and other low level hardware features works well. Linux can catch up when a hw vendor preinstalls Linux on default. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]ahoyboyhoy 6 points7 points8 points 6 hours ago (1 child) You use the tool you know because there's a cost to learn new tools (OS is a tool). I started developing for the web in 2009 on a MacBook Pro. I installed Ubuntu as a dual boot several times from then until 2021 and the experience was never terrific. At the end of 2021, I bought a desktop with the plan to install Pop!_OS and a few months later I replaced my laptop as well. I don't know where the inflection point would have been for me and my workloads, but it's no secret that hardware support (especially for laptops, wireless, webcams, etc) and DE improvements have brought the barrier to entry down enormously in the past decade. For many Mac developers, we are past that inflection point. This is all to say that amongst developers I know, the reason for not running Linux is either: 1. Software unsupported (Adobe or Microsoft I guess?) 2. Hardware unsupported (Apple) 3. Not familiar enough with Linux Desktop and no luxury of time to master. I was exceedingly fortunate enough to have cash to invest in non-Apple hardware before selling Apple hardware and a gig that wasn't too demanding time-wise that I couldn't switch to Linux. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]cbleslie 17 points18 points19 points 9 hours ago (0 children) Because it's not. It's actually pretty good, most Linux binaries have their compiled equivalents for MacOS. Some of them even run faster. It really all depends on the workflow you're using, and the stack. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]diegovsky_pvp 3 points4 points5 points 7 hours ago (0 children) it's like better than windows (since it's Unix like) but a bit worse than Linux (since Linux usually is the target to CLI, devtools, etc). * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Jonne 6 points7 points8 points 8 hours ago (5 children) In my case, because IT doesn't want to support Linux, so Mac OS is the closest thing. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]riasthebestgirl -1 points0 points1 point 13 hours ago (2 children) I'm not a Mac user so I don't know how bad it is. Is it worse than windows? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]cbleslie 5 points6 points7 points 9 hours ago (1 child) No. Windows from a webdev perspective is worse; IMO. But I am bias towards *nix flavored OS's. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]Loose-Bottle218 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago (0 children) It's like that for dev tools on macOS. macOS is a second class citizen when it comes to a lot of development tools. It hurts. It hurts. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]small_kimono 16 points17 points18 points 9 hours ago (3 children) FWIW, my first guess as to the reason why Linux is faster is because Linux is just not doing the same power management tricks MacOS is doing. Hector Martin, one of the port's authors, seemed to indicate the battery life on a Macbook Air running Asahi was maybe less than a 1/2-1/4 that of it running MacOS. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]diegovsky_pvp 5 points6 points7 points 7 hours ago (2 children) Maybe. Asahi Linux does not have any GPU acceleration at the moment, so the battery drains are most likely rendering tasks. But macOS is VERY MUCH optimized. I heard it's crazy the lengths apple goes through to make it even a little bit better. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]gen2brain 4 points5 points6 points 5 hours ago (1 child) They only need to optimize for one specific hardware they sell, so it is not that hard to do, compared to what Linux (and somewhat Windows) support, basically anything you throw. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]collapsing_spacetime 14 points15 points16 points 7 hours ago (7 children) Is there any reason why? IMHO, I've found macOS' appleFS (sp) file system to be fairly "slow". Better than NTFS, but worse than ext4, xfs, etc. Given I/O is usually where many OS performance differences originate, I would put that near the top of my list of reasons. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]argv_minus_one 7 points8 points9 points 7 hours ago (1 child) APFS is a copy-on-write file system like btrfs, so I wonder how it compares to that. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]noman_032018 0 points1 point2 points 4 hours ago (0 children) Compression settings and specifics of how it works would also make a difference. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]funbike 2 points3 points4 points 5 hours ago (0 children) I came here to say this. Other replies don't make sense. This is about the performance of a single app, likely compiled to almost the exact same native machine code. The biggest difference between run times has to come down to file access, not CPU or dev tooling or even power management. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]small_kimono 0 points1 point2 points 7 hours ago (3 children) I'm interested. Do you have some benchmarks? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]diegovsky_pvp 1 point2 points3 points 7 hours ago (2 children) Very hard to test since you will need the same machine running the benchmark running one OS only (so you can be sure the OS is not the bottleneck). The driver could also be a bottleneck, so very hard to test. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]diegovsky_pvp 2 points3 points4 points 9 hours ago (4 children) Does macOS even support statx? It is a Linux specific extension after all. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]small_kimono 4 points5 points6 points 9 hours ago* (3 children) Not an expert, and I really have no idea if the behavior of these syscalls is similar, but there is a stat64_extended call on MacOS, but virtually no documentation for it. I filed a bug, and it went down the memory hole! But to give you and idea: On MacOS, a metadata intensive app was making >2000 syscalls while on Linux it was making 1000ish. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]diegovsky_pvp 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago* (2 children) I'm not a macOS user but I have studied some of its inner workings for curiosity. Linux does more syscalls but macOS is slower? This could be because system calls are expensive in Darwin, since it uses a microkernel design. I'm just speculating at this point. Will look at stat64 later, but it's name seems to imply it returns timestamps (and other stats) with 64bit numbers instead of 32, not extra metadata like statx. Edit: I was right. stat64 has wider return values but it is deprecated * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]ionlydosupport 0 points1 point2 points 9 hours ago (17 children) I guess what I'm trying to say is -- I'd caution against thinking this is some inherent property of the OS. A 2x performance difference, to me, sounds like an invitation to do more benchmarking, because "Why?" The inherent property is the shoestring budget Apple provides for their OS. Apple does not invest enough money in OSX tools and utilities. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]mabhatter 4 points5 points6 points 8 hours ago (1 child) I'd have to agree. Apple is spending big money, sure. But Apple is spending all the money on constantly rewriting things to add useless yearly user features and M1 compatibility and stupid "upgrade for the sake of upgrade" marketing stuff. Apple needs to take a two year break from a new OS and adding features on all their platforms and just spend all their resources housekeeping, bug fixing, and optimizing their systems with the A+ Senior engineers and not the Juniors. It's six months after the last OSes released and they JUST got the .4 version out with features announced in July of last year. They're running the wheels off the train. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ionlydosupport 2 points3 points4 points 8 hours ago* (0 children) Apple needs to take a two year break from a new OS and adding features on all their platforms and just spend all their resources housekeeping, bug fixing, and optimizing their systems with the A+ Senior engineers and not the Juniors. I think the larger problem with Apple is that they hire a few A+ senior engineers and silo them in secrecy for any major project. All releases have pretty alarming bugs. Look at project zero. They were annoyed because they felt like being treated as Apple's q/a team. I believe both Linux and Windows have larger q/a teams than OSX.' Edit: lol, Apple poached the project zero security guy https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2022/02/ a-walk-through-project-zero-metrics.html https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/10/04/ google-project-zero-security-researcher-moves-to-apple https://www.macrumors.com/2019/09/06/ apple-addresses-ios-vulnerabilities/ * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]jrjsmrtn 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago (9 children) Do you realise that, after all these years, Microsoft still doesn't offer a ARM-native Visual Studio? :-) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Sylente 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago (3 children) Why on earth would they? They're waiting on upstream dependencies for the macOS visual studio, but it's planned. For windows... what would be the point? Nobody uses windows on ARM. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]ionlydosupport -1 points0 points1 point 8 hours ago (4 children) Do you realise that, after all these years, Microsoft still doesn't offer a ARM-native Visual Studio? :-) https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/setup/raspberry-pi I am not sure what you mean. When Microsoft cares, they will devote engineering prowess. They have a hell a lot of prowess ready to be mobilized. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]small_kimono -5 points-4 points-3 points 9 hours ago (4 children) What? Haha. Were you being ironical? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ionlydosupport 1 point2 points3 points 8 hours ago (2 children) What? Haha. Were you being ironical? Nope. I believe Apple release APFS with a few full time devs. I believe the size of the team is basically the same size as regular university team. HFS+ was development with a small team too. The Unix certification was release with a small team. Intel transition was develop by a one random employee. The tail end transition team is much larger. https://www.quora.com/ What-goes-into-making-an-OS-to-be-Unix-compliant-certified https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_project https://www.theregister.com/2012/06/11/apple_project_marklar_secrets/ Apple is extremely efficient with their resources. They do not dole a lot of it. It is hard to find links about OSX history. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]trisul-108 29 points30 points31 points 10 hours ago (8 children) The time (210ms) is too short for a meaningful benchmark because initialization and the like are overshadowing the work done. You need a test with 100 times more pages. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ImprovedPersonality 6 points7 points8 points 7 hours ago (0 children) Indeed. It could even be some power saving feature (which is not enabled/working in Asahi) which takes some time to ramp up to full speed. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ionlydosupport 2 points3 points4 points 5 hours ago (6 children) . You need a test with 100 times more pages. If you do that, then you will miss these weird design decisions. https://sigpipe.macromates.com/2020/macos-catalina-slow-by-design/ https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/catalina-executables.html You can test this by running the following two lines in a terminal: echo $'#!/bin/sh\necho Hello' > /tmp/test.sh && chmod a+x /tmp/ test.sh time /tmp/test.sh && time /tmp/test.sh Update 2020-05-23: Some users have a Developer Tools category in the Security & Privacy preferences pane. If your terminal is added to this category, you will not be able to reproduce this delay. Though there have been enough confirmations to establish that the delay is real. One user in China reports a delay of 5.7 seconds when using their VPN. Honestly, this is downright baffling. Are Apple sending the source of all my custom scripts to their server? With their stance on privacy, I wouldn't think so, so they are likely just sending a checksum, but what are they doing with that checksum that the system couldn't do locally? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]trisul-108 2 points3 points4 points 5 hours ago (5 children) The M1 does not even run Catalina. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ionlydosupport 4 points5 points6 points 5 hours ago (4 children) This issue has been reported to Apple and assigned FB7674490. Apple has however responded that it is "by design" (hence the title of this post). They probably kept the behavior. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]reconbot 2 points3 points4 points 11 hours ago (0 children) Same reason Ruby/rails boots super slow probably, the fs security overhead is nuts * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]dm319 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago (0 children) I thought the M1 was already unusually fast (on MacOS), this must be so much faster than my current device. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]5c044 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago (0 children) Easy next step is use time(1) command and see user space and sys kernel times separately. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]TheMonax 100 points101 points102 points 15 hours ago (11 children) Same for me, compiling C programs is nearly twice as fast on Linux than on macOS * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]skuterpikk 19 points20 points21 points 10 hours ago (7 children) Any particular reason why macos is slower? I don't compile a lot of software, but on the few occations I do it seems like Linux and Windows is more or less on par, but what is Apple up to if their computers do this so much slower? Is it the os, inferior hardware, or a combination of both? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]dev-sda 60 points61 points62 points 9 hours ago (4 children) I don't compile a lot of software, but on the few occations I do it seems like Linux and Windows is more or less on par From my experience Windows is about half as fast for compile workloads, around the same as macOS (C++, clang for all). For windows git seems to hit all the performance bottlenecks and is just crazy slow. Linux is pretty much always faster or on par in benchmarks: https://openbenchmarking.org/result/2107013-IB-WIN11LINU39 I think this is fairly easily explained by Microsoft and Apple simply having no incentive to compete on OS performance with Linux. They both primarily use Linux for servers, as does the rest of the world, so everyone benefits from even marginal performance improvements. Spend a month making an edge case 1% faster on Windows and your manager asks you why you're wasting your time; do that for Linux and you've saved companies millions in hosting costs. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ionlydosupport 21 points22 points23 points 7 hours ago (3 children) For windows git seems to hit all the performance bottlenecks and is just crazy slow. that is git fault. Git is written for Linux and Linux is fast in arbitrary specific areas. Here is a windows engineer talking about WSL https://github.com/Microsoft/WSL/issues/873#issuecomment-425272829 The IO subsystem is architected very differently in Windows than it is in Linux, with different goals in mind. Some of the major differences we have to deal with are: Linux has a top-level directory entry cache that means that certain queries (most notably stat calls) can be serviced without calling into the file system at all once an item is in the cache. Windows has no such cache, and leaves much more up to the file systems. A Win32 path like C:\dir\file gets translated to an NT path like \??\C:\dir\file, where \??\C: is a symlink in Object Manager to a device object like \Device\HarddiskVolume4. Once such a device object is encountered, the entire remainder of the path is just passed to the file system, which is very different to the centralized path parsing that VFS does in Linux. Windows's IO stack is extensible, allowing filter drivers to attach to volumes and intercept IO requests before the file system sees them. This is used for numerous things, including virus scanning, compression, encryption, file virtualization, things like OneDrive's files on demand feature, gathering pre-fetching data to speed up app startup, and much more. Even a clean install of Windows will have a number of filters present, particularly on the system volume (so if you have a D: drive or partition, I recommend using that instead, since it likely has fewer filters attached). Filters are involved in many IO operations, most notably creating/opening files. The NT file system API is designed around handles, not paths. Almost any operation requires opening the file first, which can be expensive. Even things that on the Win32 level seem to be a single call (e.g. DeleteFile) actually open and close the file under the hood. One of our biggest performance optimizations for DrvFs which we did several releases ago was the introduction of a new API that allows us to query file information without having to open it first. Whether we like it or not (and we don't), file operations in Windows are more expensive than in Linux, even more so for those operations that only touch file metadata (such as stat). The costs of these operations are spread all over the place, from Object Manager and IO manager, to the filters, and NTFS. If it was as simple as saying "NTFS is slow," we'd simply spend a release optimizing NTFS (and we have spent time doing just that), but our costs are so spread out over many components that there just isn't a silver bullet anymore. And we can only ever address in-box filters; who knows what third party filters are doing. We do work with the vendors of those filters to try and improve things. For example, when we introduced the new API to query file information without opening it, we needed filter drivers to support that. We needed to make sure we didn't break the system if some installed filters didn't support it (basically by falling back to a open/query/close operation). Making sure everybody supported this so you, our users, got the maximum speed benefit from that change took a lot of time and effort. The same thing is true for something like the case-sensitive directory work; we had to make sure our filter ecosystem could handle this new behavior. When Rich was talking about app behavior above, he wasn't trying to blame the apps for behaving that way. These apps were written on a system where file system operations are incredibly fast, and we're trying to run them, unmodified (unlike e.g. Git for Windows which tries to optimize its access patterns to better fit the Windows way of doing things) on a system that, unfortunately, is not as fast. And it's not even as simple as saying "Windows is the cause of the slowness" either, since WSL does play a role. Most notably, Windows path parsing is very different than Linux path parsing (and, as I said above, is the responsibility of the file system, so can differ between file systems, while on Linux it's centralized). Linux apps expect the Linux behavior, so we have to carefully emulate that behavior, and unfortunately that means sending more operations down to the file system. Something like a stat call, which in Linux can be served entirely from the kernel's own cache if you're lucky, for WSL requires sending multiple file system requests, all of which have to traverse the entire filter stack. We've done a lot of work, even as recent as the upcoming 1809, to reduce the amount of extra work WSL has to do. But the differences between Linux and Windows's API mean there'll always be some extra work, at least. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]fuckEAinthecloaca 26 points27 points28 points 7 hours ago (1 child) It's git's fault that windows IO is poorly designed? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]dev-sda 26 points27 points28 points 6 hours ago (0 children) that is git fault. Git is written for Linux and Linux is fast in arbitrary specific areas. That seems like a pretty bad take in direct conflict with what that Microsoft engineer said. We know why Windows IO is slow and that it's not fixable without breaking backwards compatibility - something that's out of the question. The fact remains that Linux is simply faster here and thus it's easy to argue the design decisions Microsoft made were a mistake. Note that compiling C/C++ similarly touches many small files very quickly; this isn't an edge-case access pattern. It's a standard thing programs do on computers and I think it's certainly the fault of the operating system if those are slow. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [+]LGBBQ 2 points3 points4 points 9 hours ago (0 children) Less dev time dedicated to optimizing tooling for macs * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ImprovedPersonality 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago (1 child) Same power saving features enabled and so on? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]TheMonax 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago (0 children) Yeah I redid the test this time with both on AC, and the difference was only like 16% * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]bing-chilling-lover 0 points1 point2 points 4 hours ago (0 children) My 10 year old laptop can compile my c programs on VS code at same time as tesselators of my college , * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ArhatDev 27 points28 points29 points 11 hours ago (12 children) one possible cause of this is the go runtime cgo usage on darwin, even though you can build your golang project with CGO_ENABLED=0 (cgo disabled) on darwin, go runtime still calls C functions via internal ABI0 (due to lacking of proper syscall support on darwin), these are cgo calls with about 60ns overhead on m1 mac. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]argv_minus_one 3 points4 points5 points 6 hours ago (10 children) lacking of proper syscall support on darwin Are you referring to the fact that macOS doesn't have a stable ABI for system calls? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ArhatDev 3 points4 points5 points 6 hours ago (9 children) yes, as to my understanding, certain operations cannot be done in trap style syscall on darwin, but needs to go through the CoreFramework, the micro kernel part of darwin, which doesn't provide a stable syscall interface. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]argv_minus_one 9 points10 points11 points 5 hours ago (8 children) The only modern operating system with a stable system-call interface is Linux. It's a trait it shares with ancient microcomputer operating systems like MS-DOS, but not with any other modern OS. Everything else expects you to dynamically link with system libraries (libc, Windows system DLLs, etc) and use those to make system calls. This is completely at odds with Go's statically-link-everything design. Apparently Go was never meant to run on anything other than Linux. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ArhatDev 2 points3 points4 points 4 hours ago (7 children) I tend to agree, but I believe the lacking of stable syscall interface is not a result of operating system being modern, but missing open standards, or in other words, lacking of openness. IMHO, these so called modern OS vendors just don't want to make a commitment supporting certain syscalls forever for some unknown reason, or they just want to break your app in purpose. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [-]kafka_quixote 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago (0 children) This should be the top comment in this thread * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]davidgarazaz 12 points13 points14 points 7 hours ago (9 children) I love my ThinkPad but I would love to own a M1 Mac, only thing preventing me is the fact that the only properly supported OS is macOS. I think I would probably make the switch when the GPU driver is released. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]ImprovedPersonality -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 hours ago (5 children) The M1 Macbooks are still quite heavy and have glossy screens, right? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]davidgarazaz 10 points11 points12 points 6 hours ago (2 children) My reasoning is that you can not beat the price to performance ratio of an M1 Macbook Air, and battery life is a huge plus. 1.27 kg is not that heavy, considering I sometimes carry books that weigh 2 or 3kg. And I prefer glossy screens, as I usually use my laptop indoors. But everyone has different preferences on this matter. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]ImprovedPersonality 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago (0 children) The current 14" Macbook Pro 2021 is 1.6kg. The 16" is 2.1kg. My 2019 Macbook Pro 15" is 1.83 kg and somehow feels like a brick. It just sucks for carrying in the backpack when riding a bicycle (also because it's such a big and rigid flat surface, unfortunately my employer didn't give me the 13" version). * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]bing-chilling-lover 4 points5 points6 points 4 hours ago (0 children) Meh, I honestly prefer glossy screens. My new legion 5 has muted colors compared to my old surface go despite having same 100% sRGB. Turns out it's because matte finishes can make colors washed out * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Herr-A 1 point2 points3 points 6 hours ago (0 children) They still are glossy, but have excellent anti-reflective coatings and all except the Air have 500nits max brightness. The 14inch Pro that I have seen is usable even outside in the sun, as long as it doesn't shine directly on the screen of course. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]bringo24 0 points1 point2 points 6 hours ago (1 child) Is there any ETA for the driver? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]davidgarazaz 2 points3 points4 points 5 hours ago (0 children) No idea, but you can follow Alyssa Rosenzweig's developments https:// twitter.com/alyssarzg https://rosenzweig.io/ * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]KryKrycz 0 points1 point2 points 2 hours ago (0 children) And that its from Apple. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]brokedown 21 points22 points23 points 9 hours ago (1 child) My immediate assumption is that the difference is largely filesystem related. Current MacOS on M1 defaults to encrypted filesystems, and the last benchmark of git on apfs vs ext4 I saw it was notably slower on the mac. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]zamadatix 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Automatic encryption of the disk from the secure enclave on M1 Macs is not a macOS feature it's a firmware feature. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Doctorspice 42 points43 points44 points 11 hours ago (12 children) Man there's a lot of Asahi Linux posts recently. * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]ReallyNeededANewName 46 points47 points48 points 9 hours ago (11 children) The proper alpha with an installer released like a week ago, what were you expecting? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]shrededpudding 11 points12 points13 points 8 hours ago (0 children) Tons of people loved CentOS 8 too, so this is a pretty major release * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]EarthyFeet 2 points3 points4 points 7 hours ago (6 children) That not many people use m1 for Linux, since it's rudimentary. My fingers are itching too, though, want to try the "new" arm revolution.. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [+]Doctorspice comment score below threshold-7 points-6 points-5 points 6 hours ago (5 children) I truly TRULY hope that macbooks dont take over the arm revolution. Jesus christ that would really suck. I would rather be dead than shell out thousands for a silicon valley spyware box However you could use qemu's aarch64 system and run asahi in there. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]diamond2156 9 points10 points11 points 6 hours ago (4 children) Heres a thought Apples M1 SoC has no backdoors unlike AMD and Intel. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply continue this thread [+]Doctorspice comment score below threshold-17 points-16 points-15 points 8 hours ago* (2 children) I was expecting a lot of posts but the sheer volume of stupid shit like "This runs on Asahi linux!!!" is starting to become overwhelming Don't get me wrong, its great and all that your absolutely proprietary Crapbook can run Insane Aquarium "natively" but jeez. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]diamond2156 5 points6 points7 points 6 hours ago (0 children) Your funny. As long as it runs linux I don't care if it's proprietary. Even Linus wanted the m1 macbook air if it ran linux. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]nixcamic [score hidden] 31 minutes ago (0 children) Sent from your risk v computer I'm assuming? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]NatoBoram 3 points4 points5 points 10 hours ago (0 children) Can you build it with go1.18 and try again? * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]The_EnrichmentCenter 20 points21 points22 points 10 hours ago (11 children) Why are there suddenly 20 links in this sub with the word "Asahi" in the title? Is it just really popular and hyped, or is this some marketing campaign for it? * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]kayk1 70 points71 points72 points 10 hours ago (0 children) I would assume it's just because of the significant release they made in the last week, so people are just trying it out. It's one of the first usable releases of Linux for Apple Silicon, so I would say it has some hype around it. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]mabhatter 17 points18 points19 points 8 hours ago (2 children) Asashi Linux is a distro designed to be natively bootable on Apple M1 hardware (no VMs) and it just dropped a "fully working alpha" version. It's pretty much the only game in town right now. https://asahilinux.org/ * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]FryBoyter 0 points1 point2 points 8 hours ago (1 child) And when I read through https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/ %22When-will-Asahi-Linux-be-done?%22 there is no help from Apple. Right? * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]bing-chilling-lover 4 points5 points6 points 4 hours ago (0 children) Yes, it's completely community driven and everything is being done from CPU, because iGPU of M1 is still being worked on for linux compatibility by the same community * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]FryBoyter 47 points48 points49 points 10 hours ago (1 child) Hype. The hardware of the M1 is damn good and Asahi might be one if not the only Linux distribution that you can currently use with it. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]iritegood 1 point2 points3 points 1 hour ago (0 children) [DEL:might be one if not:DEL] the only Linux distribution that you can currently use with it asahi linux isn't so much a "distribution" as the project that collects all the driver/kernel dev required to support the M1 machines. The actual software-packaing "distro" stuff is just ArchLinuxARM (at least for the distribution included in the alpha installer ATM). No other distributions are supporting M1 stuff yet, and considering there's still a bunch of stuff yet unmerged into the mainline kernel I don't expect that to change for a while * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]DeliciousIncident 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago (0 children) A new shiny toy just dropped and people are milking it for internet points. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [+][deleted] 9 hours ago (2 children) [deleted] [-]-Phinocio 2 points3 points4 points 6 hours ago (1 child) A new shiny toy just dropped and people are [DEL:milking it for internet points.:DEL] interested and want to converse about it FTFY * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]TheIronMarx 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago (0 children) Thanks, Descartes * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]argv_minus_one 0 points1 point2 points 6 hours ago (0 children) It's the only way to run Linux on an M1 Mac right now. That's kind of a big deal. * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]NursingGrimTown 1 point2 points3 points 1 hour ago (0 children) Thats 'cause theres no bloat on asahi * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]krongerm29 -1 points0 points1 point 4 hours ago (0 children) Applele sucks * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]DirkDieGurke -1 points0 points1 point 4 hours ago (0 children) Pink paginator pages perfectly printed promptly, piled purposefully, pleasing public purchasers... * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [+][deleted] 8 hours ago (1 child) [deleted] [-]Sylente 3 points4 points5 points 8 hours ago (0 children) ...have you ever used a mac? * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]Oesel__ -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 hours ago (0 children) I smell bloat * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [+]ad-on-is comment score below threshold-9 points-8 points-7 points 8 hours ago (0 children) hey lapsu$$, if you read this: can you release the schematics of the m1 chips? * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]Jaco5_ 0 points1 point2 points 5 hours ago (2 children) I'm really tempted to install Asahi on my macbook air, but can I uninstall it if I don't like it? * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply [-]jasoneckert[S] 2 points3 points4 points 4 hours ago (1 child) It's as easy as removing the volumes created by Asahi and resizing the macOS volumes to use the remaining space :-) * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]Jaco5_ 1 point2 points3 points 4 hours ago (0 children) That's cool, I'm definitely doing it! * permalink * embed * save * parent * report * give award * reply [-]fourstepper 0 points1 point2 points 1 hour ago (0 children) How does this matter at all? * permalink * embed * save * report * give award * reply * about * blog * about * advertising * careers * help * site rules * Reddit help center * reddiquette * mod guidelines * contact us * apps & tools * Reddit for iPhone * Reddit for Android * mobile website * <3 * reddit premium * reddit coins Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. 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